plip: StdOut > ttyS0 & ttyS1 > StdOut

[Avoi...@gmail.com]

The rPi credit-card-sized ARMbased computer which is
already widely distributed, has no facilites to drive VGA.

It has however a GPIO port [?IEE488].
A driver for RS232 would be easy to drive the GPIO port.
I think plip is even simpler, and there's linux info for it.

Would it be viable to:-

connect the rPi's port to a PC's RS232-port,
rPi redirect StdOut to ttyS0,
PC redirect ttyS0 to StdOut ?

This would allow one Terminal of the LinuxPC to show
the rPi's output -- hopefully.

I've got a crossover-cable RS232 to RS232.
Could I test the concept on a PC which has 2 RS232 ports,
with one port simulating the rPi?

== TIA.

[J G Miller]

On Tuesday, April 2nd, 2013, 14:36:59 +0000, Chris Glur observed:

> The rPi credit-card-sized ARMbased computer which is
> already widely distributed, has no facilites to drive VGA.

And how were you able to get one of these in a failed state
where you imply that it is near impossible to buy a Linux
oriented magazine?

Was your raspberry Pi delivered by Elephant Express,

<http://trainweb.ORG/carl/Anaheim/F_2523.jpg>

or more appropriately Tiger Express? (Get it -- pi, tiger?)

> connect the rPi's port to a PC's RS232-port

Yes using a null modem cable.

> rPi redirect StdOut to ttyS0,

No need to do any of this nonsense.

You boot the kernel on the rPi telling it to send its virtual
console output to the serial port.

You then run minicom or equivalent on your PC to get a "terminal"
to connect to the output of the rPi.

There are basic instructions at

<https://www.kernel.org/doc/Documentation/serial-console.txt>

but obviously if you are using grub, you will have to modify
the grub configuration rather than the old lilo configuration
mentioned in this HOW TO document.

[Michael Black]

On Tue, 2 Apr 2013, Avoi...@gmail.com wrote:

> The rPi credit-card-sized ARMbased computer which is
> already widely distributed, has no facilites to drive VGA.
>

Take note that comp.sys.raspberry-pi has been approved, the creation
message has probably gone out by now.

The Pi doesn't drive a VGA because it's intended to be used with current
tv sets, which definitely have hdmi. It's a modern day equivalent of the
Commodore 64, hook up to the tv set and play with it to learn programming.

That said, the HDMI port has the signals for DVI, you just need an adapter
that takes the subset of signals and puts it on a DVI connector. And most
of the LCD monitors I'm finding here waiting for the garbage trucks have
DVI (no sign of hdmi yet) connectors. So not having VGA doesnt' seem too
limiting.

> It has however a GPIO port [?IEE488].
> A driver for RS232 would be easy to drive the GPIO port.
> I think plip is even simpler, and there's linux info for it.
>

If it's doing conversion to serial in software, then that may slow things
down. THey need specific timing, which then locks out other multitasking,
unless things have changed from the days of Microware OS-9. That may or
may not be an issue.

> Would it be viable to:- >
> connect the rPi's port to a PC's RS232-port,
> rPi redirect StdOut to ttyS0,
> PC redirect ttyS0 to StdOut ?
>

You set up a console that is using the RS232 port rather than the built
in console. This is easy since long before Linux came along, Unix often
operated this way. Inittab is where this is done.


Michael

[Avoi...@gmail.com]

In article <kjesgt$tki$1...@dont-email.me>, J G Miller <mil...@yoyo.ORG> wrote:

> On Tuesday, April 2nd, 2013, 14:36:59 +0000, Chris Glur observed:
>
> > The rPi credit-card-sized ARMbased computer which is
> > already widely distributed, has no facilites to drive VGA.
>
> And how were you able to get one of these in a failed state
> where you imply that it is near impossible to buy a Linux
> oriented magazine?
>

Someone imported 2 for me, with his, and is still trying to get a
refund on the faulty 42% import duty; and now my ex says there's
been a mail strike for 4 weeks - she expects mail from Scandinavia.
And what about the legislation [Court rules] where 'times' assume
a working postal system.
Of course you can still get COKE in Haiti, and probably even KFC,
but I don't 'do', FB, twitter, magazines, cartoons ...

>
> > connect the rPi's port to a PC's RS232-port
>
> Yes using a null modem cable.
>
> > rPi redirect StdOut to ttyS0,
>
> No need to do any of this nonsense.
>
> You boot the kernel on the rPi telling it to send its virtual
> console output to the serial port.

How? I'd edit the SD-card from the SD-reader under the PC.

>
> You then run minicom or equivalent on your PC to get a "terminal"
> to connect to the output of the rPi.
>

OK, that's better.

> There are basic instructions at
>
> <https://www.kernel.org/doc/Documentation/serial-console.txt>
>

OK, I'll check it.

> but obviously if you are using grub, you will have to modify
> the grub configuration rather than the old lilo configuration
> mentioned in this HOW TO document.

That sounds bad. I don't want to involve grub and especially
not LILO.

== Thanks.

[Avoi...@gmail.com]

In article <alpine.LNX.2.02.1...@darkstar.example.org>, Michael Black <et...@ncf.ca> wrote:

> On Tue, 2 Apr 2013, Avoi...@gmail.com wrote:
>
> > The rPi credit-card-sized ARMbased computer which is
> > already widely distributed, has no facilites to drive VGA.
> >
> Take note that comp.sys.raspberry-pi has been approved, the creation
> message has probably gone out by now.

Let's see if this cross-post gets there.

> > It has however a GPIO port [?IEE488].
> > A driver for RS232 would be easy to drive the GPIO port.
> > I think plip is even simpler, and there's linux info for it.

It's IEEE488

> >
> If it's doing conversion to serial in software, then that may slow things
> down. THey need specific timing, which then locks out other multitasking,
> unless things have changed from the days of Microware OS-9. That may or
> may not be an issue.
>

Hardware speed is not an issue. My effort is.

> > Would it be viable to:- >
> > connect the rPi's port to a PC's RS232-port,
> > rPi redirect StdOut to ttyS0,
> > PC redirect ttyS0 to StdOut ?
> >
> You set up a console that is using the RS232 port rather than the built
> in console. This is easy since long before Linux came along, Unix often
> operated this way. Inittab is where this is done.
>

/etc/inittab
...
# These are the standard console login getties in multiuser mode:
c1:1235:respawn:/sbin/agetty 38400 tty1 linux
...
# Local serial lines:
#s1:12345:respawn:/sbin/agetty -L ttyS0 9600 vt100

> Michael
>
> > This would allow one Terminal of the LinuxPC to show
> > the rPi's output -- hopefully.
> >
> > I've got a crossover-cable RS232 to RS232.
> > Could I test the concept on a PC which has 2 RS232 ports,
> > with one port simulating the rPi?

Especially when hardware is envolved, the common method:
Doa, DoB, DoC...and it should fly;
is inferior to the method of:
confirm the 1st stage [power LED];
confirm 2nd stage
...
confirm Nth stage

PS. what are the steps to send 8 'postponed' emails from
alpine, FAST, once you've paid-to-go-online?

[Keith Keller]

["Followup-To:" header set to comp.os.linux.hardware.]

On 2013-04-03, Avoi...@gmail.com <Avoi...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> Hardware speed is not an issue. My effort is.

If your effort is truly the issue, find a display that supports DVI or
HDMI and hook it up to the Pi as Michael suggested. Only a fool or a
troll would think that trying to get the Pi to do plip is less effort.

--keith


--
kkeller...@wombat.san-francisco.ca.us
(try just my userid to email me)
AOLSFAQ=http://www.therockgarden.ca/aolsfaq.txt
see X- headers for PGP signature information

[J G Miller]

On Wednesday, April 3rd, 2013, at 05:35:29h +0000, Chris Glur wrote:

> Of course you can still get COKE in Haiti, and probably even KFC,

Have you emigrated to Haiti now? ;)

> but I don't 'do', FB, twitter, magazines, cartoons ...

Nobody is trying to persuade you to do FB or join the Twitterati.

But even the AWB have an FB page!

> How? I'd edit the SD-card from the SD-reader under the PC.

Rather than go that route, why do you not telnet in to the
the running rPi or if you have a monitor or TV with HDMI input
then use that as a temporary display? Or maybe you do not
have keyboard and mouse connected to the rPi?

> That sounds bad. I don't want to involve grub and especially
> not LILO.

Well thinking about it, my mistake in mentioning that since neither
are probably involved because it is an "embedded" Arm type system.

You are going to have to find out how to change the kernel boot command
line parameters and save them to the system's bootloader.

A simple web search (do you know how to use your favorite web search engine?)
reveals that changing the boot command line parameters is remarkably simple --

<http://www.raspberrypi.ORG/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?t=36028&p=323262>

I would suggest that posting to your questions about rPi on that forum
will lead to more informed and more timely responses than from those of
us who do not have an rPi.

[Unknown]

On Wed, 03 Apr 2013 12:04:43 +0000, J G Miller wrote:

==> To display the rPi's output on a terminal of a linux PC.

> On Wednesday, April 3rd, 2013, at 05:35:29h +0000, Chris Glur wrote:

> ......

>> How? I'd edit the SD-card from the SD-reader under the PC.
>
> Rather than go that route, why do you not telnet in to the the running
> rPi or if you have a monitor or TV with HDMI input then use that as a
> temporary display? Or maybe you do not have keyboard and mouse
> connected to the rPi?
>

I've never understood 'telnet into a PC'. But imagine that the sPi would
then need to be running telnet too. My idea of redirecting the rPi's
StdOut to its limited hardware pins, seems the most primitive/simple.
I hope to use eg. a <serial mouse's cord> to connect to the PC
which would display the rPi's output, possibly via minicom as you
suggested. Or plip may be even simpler than RS232. The work should be
moved from the rPi to the displaying PC.

>> That sounds bad. I don't want to involve grub and especially not LILO.
>
> Well thinking about it, my mistake in mentioning that since neither are
> probably involved because it is an "embedded" Arm type system.
>
> You are going to have to find out how to change the kernel boot command
> line parameters and save them to the system's bootloader.
>
> A simple web search (do you know how to use your favorite web search
> engine?) reveals that changing the boot command line parameters is
> remarkably simple --
>
> <http://www.raspberrypi.ORG/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?t=36028&p=323262>
>

I'll check that.

> I would suggest that posting to your questions about rPi on that forum
> will lead to more informed and more timely responses than from those of
> us who do not have an rPi.

Perhaps I could write a 1-line shell to to redirect rPi's output, and
just blindly call it after rPi has assumed to have booted.

Already I have done blind-flying: I modified the fat32-init-file to move
the display over a bit, and then it was too small to read. But I managed
to restore it, without a readable display.

===================
Now that rPi is on a adult's forum, perhaps I can get some answers:
Where's the spec for the GPIO pin-out?
What are the other 2 apparent 'micro-ribbon-connectors'?
Is it viable to display rPi's output via the one USBport, on a running
linux PC's terminal? Ie. the PC would read the rPi's USBport, and
display the text.

== TIA.

[Gordon Henderson]

In article <kjhqh7$f3g$1...@dont-email.me>, Unknown <d...@gmail.com> wrote:

>Now that rPi is on a adult's forum, perhaps I can get some answers:
> Where's the spec for the GPIO pin-out?
> What are the other 2 apparent 'micro-ribbon-connectors'?
> Is it viable to display rPi's output via the one USBport, on a running
> linux PC's terminal? Ie. the PC would read the rPi's USBport, and
> display the text.

What? Seriously? All this information has been available for over a
year now.

Spec for the GPIO pin-out:

http://wiringpi.com/pins/

(amongst other places)

The other 2 connectors - one's camera in (camera available "real soon now",
ones video out (I forget the TLAs for them) Don't expect the video out
port to be working in the near future - use compost & HDMI for now.

You can use the Pi's USB ports with serial adapters, but the on-board UART
by default has the console text output and a getty running on it to login.
(3.3v serial @ 115200 baud - many adapters available now)

-Gordon

[Dave Higton]

In message <kjgf3d$f1b$1...@dont-email.me>

Avoi...@gmail.com wrote:

> In article <alpine.LNX.2.02.1...@darkstar.example.org>,
> Michael Black <et...@ncf.ca> wrote:
>
> > On Tue, 2 Apr 2013, Avoi...@gmail.com wrote:
> >
> > > The rPi credit-card-sized ARMbased computer which is already widely
> > > distributed, has no facilites to drive VGA.
> > >
> > Take note that comp.sys.raspberry-pi has been approved, the creation
> > message has probably gone out by now.
>
> Let's see if this cross-post gets there.
> > > It has however a GPIO port [?IEE488]. A driver for RS232 would be easy
> > > to drive the GPIO port. I think plip is even simpler, and there's linux
> > > info for it.
>
> It's IEEE488

What?

The Raspberry Pi has some GPIO (General Purpose Input/Output) lines.
IEEE-488 is the officially standardised version of the ancient GPIB,
the General Purpose Interface Bus, which is an entirely different
thing, one you're very unlikely to need.

Dave

[J G Miller]

On Wednesday, April 3rd, 2013, at 17:56:57h +0000, Chris Glur wrote:

> I've never understood 'telnet into a PC'. But imagine that the sPi would
> then need to be running telnet too.

Well if it is not running telnetd, it will be rather difficult --
I was assuming it was or that you would check to find out, but a
quick web search reveals that often telnetd is available.

Of the security conscious will telnet in, su to root if needed,
and replace the telnetd with openssh and use keys instead of
passwords.

After all, you never know who may be snooping on your network,
maybe even former agents of BOSS, or today's NIA checking for
terrorist activity.

> Perhaps I could write a 1-line shell to to redirect rPi's output, and
> just blindly call it after rPi has assumed to have booted.

You could. But it is unlikely to work.

> Is it viable

No!

> to display rPi's output via the one USBport, on a running
> linux PC's terminal?

How are you going to plug the USB cable from the rPI into the PC?

You have already been given information how to get the output
from the serial port, so what is preventing you from following
that advice?

[Michael Black]

On Wed, 3 Apr 2013, J G Miller wrote:

> On Wednesday, April 3rd, 2013, at 17:56:57h +0000, Chris Glur wrote:
>
>> I've never understood 'telnet into a PC'. But imagine that the sPi would
>> then need to be running telnet too.
>
> Well if it is not running telnetd, it will be rather difficult --
> I was assuming it was or that you would check to find out, but a
> quick web search reveals that often telnetd is available.
>

There's a really important lesson here.

He came in with such a complicated "solution" that it completely
misdirected me. I'd forgotten about the ethernet connector (though to be
fair, the cheaper Pi board doesn't have ethernet). And since it is meant
to be networked, surely the variant of Linux for this board can be
telnetted into.

The misdirection was so strong that none of us have mentioned that there's
a composite video output, a nice standard RCA phono jack, on the Pi board,
incase someone doesn't have a newer model that does HDMI or VDI. So the
board can output video to any old NTSC monitor (one might imagine PAL
too?) so long as it has a composite input jack. That's not even
necessary, the composite output could feed an RF modulator, just like in
the old days, which then gets the signal into the tv set via its antenna
jack. Hence all the bases are covered.


Michael

[Keith Keller]

["Followup-To:" header set to comp.os.linux.hardware.]

On 2013-04-04, Michael Black <et...@ncf.ca> wrote:
> There's a really important lesson here.
>
> He came in with such a complicated "solution" that it completely
> misdirected me.

The OP is trolling, and this is one of his strategies. He posts a
completely ridiculous suggestion for a made-up problem, completely
disregards all the sensible advice he receives not to do it that way,
then complains that "linux doesn't work right" when he inevitably
doesn't get help for his original ridiculous suggestion.

I think the important lesson here is "ignore the OP".

[Unknown]

On Tue, 02 Apr 2013 23:02:46 -0700, Keith Keller wrote:

> ["Followup-To:" header set to comp.os.linux.hardware.]
>
> On 2013-04-03, Avoi...@gmail.com <Avoi...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> Hardware speed is not an issue. My effort is.
>
> If your effort is truly the issue, find a display that supports DVI or
> HDMI and hook it up to the Pi as Michael suggested. Only a fool or a
> troll would think that trying to get the Pi to do plip is less effort.
>
> --keith

See if you can understand these 2 points:
1. you don't know the OP's environment.
Whereas you may be located in California, the OP may be located in
jail or somewhere where no 'display that supports DVI' is available.

2. consider the TOTAL 'effort' to develop the rPi [or any mass supplied
product] compared to the marginal/incremental cost.
Ie. IF the 'plip idea' is viable, countless users who have PC's, could
have the rPi lying on the table next to their PC, and have access
to the rPi's workings. OK, the keybrd needs 'space' too. No I don't
want to investigate etho.

Your mommy may want to visit that shop that you think is stupid, because
you don't know how it fits in with the rest of HER activities.
Get it?
We don't all follow the FB/twitter herd.

[Unknown]

On Wed, 03 Apr 2013 21:23:34 +0100, Dave Higton wrote:

> In message <kjgf3d$f1b$1...@dont-email.me>

>> > > It has however a GPIO port [?IEE488]. A driver for RS232 would be
>> > > easy to drive the GPIO port. I think plip is even simpler, and
>> > > there's linux info for it.
>>
>> It's IEEE488
>
> What?
>
> The Raspberry Pi has some GPIO (General Purpose Input/Output) lines.
> IEEE-488 is the officially standardised version of the ancient GPIB, the
> General Purpose Interface Bus, which is an entirely different thing, one
> you're very unlikely to need.
>
> Dave

OK, thanks. Where's the spec for this GPIO.
It'll obviously be simpler than the GPIB, which is better.
BTW Ohm's law is also ancient.

[J G Miller]

On Thursday, April 4th, 2013, at 06:41:16h +0000, Chris Glur wrote:

> Whereas you may be located in California, the OP may be located in
> jail or somewhere where no 'display that supports DVI' is available.

Do they allow prisoners to have microcomputers in jail now?

If a video terminal does not support DVI, it will probably be
nearing the end of its life by now.

Cathode Ray Tube display devices do not last for ever when used
on a regular basis.

> 2. consider the TOTAL 'effort' to develop the rPi [or any mass supplied
> product] compared to the marginal/incremental cost.

That consideration is irrelevant.

> Ie. IF the 'plip idea' is viable, countless users who have PC's, could
> have the rPi lying on the table next to their PC, and have access
> to the rPi's workings.

Countless users who have PCs (note there is no apostrophe because it
is not the possessive form) already have access to their rPi via
the ethernet socket or the serial port.

Incidentally, people who are buying rPis should really consider
the much better alternatives which are available, eg the gooseberry
board or the latest, finally with gigabit ethernet,

<http://liliputing.COM/2013/04/99-mars-board-dev-board-features-freescale-i-mx6-dual-processor.html>

Even better would be to wait for A15 boards to become readily available,
or even the really powerful A57 boards to arrive.

> No I don't want to investigate etho.

Because it is too simple and you only want to embark on
stupid and impractical notions?

> We don't all follow the FB/twitter herd.

The AWB do, but its just not the same without Eugene
(voted No. 25 in SABC3's Great South Africans), is it?

[Walter Bushell]

In article
<alpine.LNX.2.02.1...@darkstar.example.org>,
Michael Black <et...@ncf.ca> wrote:

> He came in with such a complicated "solution" that it completely
> misdirected me. I'd forgotten about the ethernet connector (though to be
> fair, the cheaper Pi board doesn't have ethernet). And since it is meant
> to be networked, surely the variant of Linux for this board can be
> telnetted into.

There do exist adaptors that take ethernet in and use a USB
connection. $5.31 at Monoprice when I bought one.

--
Gambling with Other People's Money is the meth of the fiscal industry.
me -- in the spirit of Karl and Groucho Marx

[J G Miller]

On Thursday, April 4th, 2013, at 08:36:02h -0400,

Walter Bushell wrote:

> $5.31 at Monoprice when I bought one.

But there are no Monoprice stores out on the veldt. ;)

[Bobbie Sellers]

On 04/04/2013 04:53 AM, J G Miller wrote:
> On Thursday, April 4th, 2013, at 06:41:16h +0000, Chris Glur wrote:
>
>> Whereas you may be located in California, the OP may be located in
>> jail or somewhere where no 'display that supports DVI' is available.
>
> Do they allow prisoners to have microcomputers in jail now?

They hire out the prisoners services and time to
various groups doing phone and computer work. Sometimes
the employed prisoners are con men which works out in them
being able to be doing crime while doing time.

Snip of discussion

bliss

[JEDIDIAH]

On 2013-04-04, J G Miller <mil...@yoyo.ORG> wrote:
> On Thursday, April 4th, 2013, at 06:41:16h +0000, Chris Glur wrote:
>
>> Whereas you may be located in California, the OP may be located in
>> jail or somewhere where no 'display that supports DVI' is available.
>
> Do they allow prisoners to have microcomputers in jail now?
>
> If a video terminal does not support DVI, it will probably be
> nearing the end of its life by now.

In the corporate world you can never tell. You don't even need
to bring up the prison population here. There are plenty of cheap
people out there. Some of them even run companies. You have no
idea what kind of resource constraints people might be working with.

This is especially true when you are talking about a $25 bit of
hardware.

[deletia]

[Keith Keller]

On 2013-04-04, JEDIDIAH <je...@nomad.mishnet> wrote:
>
> In the corporate world you can never tell. You don't even need
> to bring up the prison population here. There are plenty of cheap
> people out there. Some of them even run companies. You have no
> idea what kind of resource constraints people might be working with.
>
> This is especially true when you are talking about a $25 bit of
> hardware.

I know public schools in the US who are disposing of old DVI-capable
displays. If the Original Troll can't acquire a DVI display for gratis
or dirt cheap he's got bigger problems than getting PLIP working with a
Pi.

[Michael Black]

On Thu, 4 Apr 2013, Keith Keller wrote:

> On 2013-04-04, JEDIDIAH <je...@nomad.mishnet> wrote:
>>
>> In the corporate world you can never tell. You don't even need
>> to bring up the prison population here. There are plenty of cheap
>> people out there. Some of them even run companies. You have no
>> idea what kind of resource constraints people might be working with.
>>
>> This is especially true when you are talking about a $25 bit of
>> hardware.
>
> I know public schools in the US who are disposing of old DVI-capable
> displays. If the Original Troll can't acquire a DVI display for gratis
> or dirt cheap he's got bigger problems than getting PLIP working with a
> Pi.
>

Like I said, I'm finding quite a few LCD monitors these days, some work
outright, some need some new capacitors in the power supplies. I think
they all have DVI connectors, so it sets a certain standard.

That said, if someone was using their Raspberry Pi in jail, I'm sure the
other prisoners don't want the tv set used to display code, they want to
watch tv.

Michael

[JEDIDIAH]

On 2013-04-04, Keith Keller <kkeller...@wombat.san-francisco.ca.us> wrote:
> On 2013-04-04, JEDIDIAH <je...@nomad.mishnet> wrote:
>>
>> In the corporate world you can never tell. You don't even need
>> to bring up the prison population here. There are plenty of cheap
>> people out there. Some of them even run companies. You have no
>> idea what kind of resource constraints people might be working with.
>>
>> This is especially true when you are talking about a $25 bit of
>> hardware.
>
> I know public schools in the US who are disposing of old DVI-capable

...and I know companies that are still using displays that aren't modern enough to have DVI.

That works both ways.

[deletia]

Those (few) school districts probably light cigars with $100 bills too.

[Jerry Peters]

In comp.os.linux.hardware Keith Keller <kkeller...@wombat.san-francisco.ca.us> wrote:
> ["Followup-To:" header set to comp.os.linux.hardware.]
>
> On 2013-04-04, Michael Black <et...@ncf.ca> wrote:
>> There's a really important lesson here.
>>
>> He came in with such a complicated "solution" that it completely
>> misdirected me.
>
> The OP is trolling, and this is one of his strategies. He posts a
> completely ridiculous suggestion for a made-up problem, completely
> disregards all the sensible advice he receives not to do it that way,
> then complains that "linux doesn't work right" when he inevitably
> doesn't get help for his original ridiculous suggestion.
>
> I think the important lesson here is "ignore the OP".
>
> --keith
>

Not really trolling IMO, but he *likes* Rube Goldberg sulutions to
what are simple problems. Also his time must not be of any value,
he's just spent weeks cadging another RG solution from people in
comp.unix.shell to send mail via SMTP to gmail. Seems stunnel was "too
complex" or something.
Now he's doing the same thing here. It'll go one as long as people
keep humoring him.

Jerry

[Keith Keller]

On 2013-04-04, JEDIDIAH <je...@nomad.mishnet> wrote:
>
> ...and I know companies that are still using displays that aren't modern enough to have DVI.

That is of course not remotely the point. The point is that DVI
displays are cheaply and readily available if the OP were willing to
obtain one.

[JEDIDIAH]

On 2013-04-04, Keith Keller <kkeller...@wombat.san-francisco.ca.us> wrote:

> On 2013-04-04, JEDIDIAH <je...@nomad.mishnet> wrote:
>>
>> ...and I know companies that are still using displays that aren't modern enough to have DVI.
>
> That is of course not remotely the point. The point is that DVI

Sure it is.

> displays are cheaply and readily available if the OP were willing to
> obtain one.

Translation: spend more money.

That's usually a poor response to a device that's found wanting.

[Theo Markettos]

In comp.sys.raspberry-pi Unknown <d...@gmail.com> wrote:
> OK, thanks. Where's the spec for this GPIO.
> It'll obviously be simpler than the GPIB, which is better.
> BTW Ohm's law is also ancient.

'GPIO' is general purpose I/O. It's not a specific interface, there is no
standard, it's whatever the manufacturer feels like. That's why it's
general purpose! Here's the Pi version:

http://elinux.org/RPi_Low-level_peripherals

Theo

[Keith Keller]

On 2013-04-04, JEDIDIAH <je...@nomad.mishnet> wrote:

> Translation: spend more money.

I am sure he could get one gratis if he wanted.

> That's usually a poor response to a device that's found wanting.

If you believe that, then you should help the OP with his issue instead
of whinging about an extremely inexpensive piece of hardware.

[Michael Black]

And despite its use as an embedded controller, the Pi was intended as a
cheap way to play with programming. Just like the Vic-20 or COmmodore 64,
connect it to the tv set and away you go. In some ways it is silly since
people are tossing 1GHz computers, but for 35.00 or whatever, it is an
interesting way to provide a place to play with programming without the
worry of accidentally damaging a main computer.

So the Pi is designed to hook up to a tv set. Any current tv set has
hdmi, I got that when I bought an LCD tv set 2 years ago in anticipation
of Canada going to DTV. I could have bought a converter, but it had been
30 years since the only time I bought a tv set new, and this gave me an
LCD tv set with LED backlight. And it gave me HDMI.

Now if all your tv sets are too old, then as I pointed out, the Pi has a
composite tv output, which means one can connect it to that green
monochrome monitor you have left over from the Apple II days, or that
COmmodore monitor you got with the Amiga 500. It won't be hi definition,
but surely if one can't scrounge up a monitor with DVI, a tv set with
HDMI, then you can find a tv set or monitor with composite video input.

Michael

[Michael Black]

And now that the newsgroup for the Pi is created, the guy who wanted it
should seed the new newsgroup with a good FAQ, just like in the old days.
If he wants people to tune in, then he needs to start feeding posts to it,
of useful information, so people will actually go there and start hanging
out.

Michael

[Unknown]

OK, thanks. I expect it to be like the old 8-bit uProc-ports.
That's why I mentioned `plip`.
Memories of connecting 2 PC via 'nul-modem-cable' [very simple], wrongly
led me to think I could do the same for rPi. But some of the PLENTY
on-line docos point out that rPi's ports are 3.3V.
IMO 3.3V would drive par-ports on PCs.

[Unknown]

That's what I meant about these FB/twitter-kiddies living in California
next to a Walmart and watching Operah [have they still got that?] who
think all problems can be solved by buying some ding-dong!

I wrongly imagined connecting 3 lines of an old ser-mouse-cable to
rPi header-pins. But now I've REdiscovered that RS232 has 12V, which is
incompatible with rPi. Since par-port is even older, apparently the
ample docos of rPi oficinados doesn't consider that.
Perhaps I should specifically write a thread:
Can rPi drive PC bidirectional par-port?

[Paul]

In article <kjjfae$avs$1...@dont-email.me>, d...@gmail.com says...

GPIB cabling termination and software control, let alone controller is
EXPENSIVE, most cables are more expensive than a Pi.

Remembers first seeing GPIB in late 1970's

> BTW Ohm's law is also ancient.

So is Newtonian physics and Pythogarus theorum, but that is basics not
a specific application in a manner few people use except mainly ATE.

--
Paul Carpenter | pa...@pcserviceselectronics.co.uk
<http://www.pcserviceselectronics.co.uk/> PC Services
<http://www.pcserviceselectronics.co.uk/fonts/> Timing Diagram Font
<http://www.gnuh8.org.uk/> GNU H8 - compiler & Renesas H8/H8S/H8 Tiny
<http://www.badweb.org.uk/> For those web sites you hate

[J G Miller]

On Friday, April 5th, 2013, at 07:53:28h +0000, Chris Glur chided:

> That's what I meant about these FB/twitter-kiddies living in California
> next to a Walmart

So you do not live next to a Massmart (51% owned by Walmart) then? ;)

<http://www.massmart.co.ZA/>

Incidentally, if it is not considered too impertinent a question,
how close are your nearest neighbors?

> and watching Operah [have they still got that?]

Operatic Oprah left daytime TV and started her own cable TV station "OWN"

"Oprah Winfrey Network is here and we can't wait to entertain,
inform and inspire people to live their best lives."

with a tasteful theme in the "color purple" [get it?] at

<http://www.oprah.COM/own>

> who think all problems can be solved by buying some ding-dong!

Just buy the recipe and then you can make your own, or rather get your
house boy/maid to do it for you.

<http://www.ebay.COM/itm/HOSTESS-DING-DONG-RECIPE-MAKES-36-AUTHENTIC-/330857683512?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item4d08a79a38>

> Can rPi drive PC bidirectional par-port?

Because you want to connect a bidirectional parallel port printer?

It would appear that you still have not learnt how to use a browser
and an internet search engine (eg DuckDuckGo.com) or are just too
lazy to do the research yourself being used to having the houseboy/maid
doing everything for you?

From <http://www.raspberrypi.ORG/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=44&t=7221>

QUOTE

Gert van Loo » Fri Jun 01, 2012 8:30 pm

It is simple to change the GPIO pins to behave like a parallel
printer port. It can do *full bi-directional* data transfer

(So you can write data as well as read it back. )

UNQUOTE

With such a name, "Gert van Loo", he may well be able to communicate
with you in Afrikaans or at least in standard Nederlands, if you
need further assistance on this topic.

[Keith Keller]

[Newsgroups: line fixed to reduce trolling]

On 2013-04-05, J G Miller <mil...@yoyo.ORG> wrote:
>
> Incidentally, if it is not considered too impertinent a question,
> how close are your nearest neighbors?

If you believe the OP his nearest neighbor is in the next cell over!

[Unknown]

On Fri, 05 Apr 2013 15:50:31 +0000, J G Miller wrote:

> On Friday, April 5th, 2013, at 07:53:28h +0000, Chris Glur chided:
>
>

> Incidentally, if it is not considered too impertinent a question, how
> close are your nearest neighbors?

> ....
Often 10m. You've heard about people coming back from the war, who
can't discuss any thing: because the 'home people' can't have a
valid context to ask any questions. They can't know that they
don't know. If you were in Calcutta your nearest neighbour would be
10mm. but you still couldn't get a BigMac. Or did you read that here
they are made of donkey meat.

>> Can rPi drive PC bidirectional par-port?
>
> Because you want to connect a bidirectional parallel port printer?
>

No. Writing rPi's stdOut to a PC's ser-port has problems for voltage
incompatibility. Whereas rPi's 3.3V should drive TTL. And whereas
par-port is originally intended as OUTPUT only, newer ones do input,
although often only 5-bits wide.
>
> From <http://www.raspberrypi.ORG/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=44&t=7221>

Thanks, I'll check that now.

[The Natural Philosopher]

parallel ports always did input: you need it for device status.

they just were not BIDIRECTIONAL nor always 8 bits wide input wise.

>>
>> From <http://www.raspberrypi.ORG/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=44&t=7221>
>
> Thanks, I'll check that now.
>

--
Ineptocracy

(in-ep-toc’-ra-cy) – a system of government where the least capable to
lead are elected by the least capable of producing, and where the
members of society least likely to sustain themselves or succeed, are
rewarded with goods and services paid for by the confiscated wealth of a
diminishing number of producers.

[J G Miller]

On Friday, April 5th, 2013 18:38:36 +0000, Chris Glur explained:

> On Fri, 05 Apr 2013 15:50:31 +0000, J G Miller wrote:
>
>> Incidentally, if it is not considered too impertinent a question, how
>> close are your nearest neighbors?
>> ....
> Often 10m.

Often? The residences move? Mobile homes? You live on a trailer park? ;)

Previously one could be forgiven for thinking that you lived on a homestead
in the middle of nowhere where the next habitation was maybe 10 - 20 km away.

> You've heard about people coming back from the war, who can't discuss
> any thing: because the 'home people' can't have a valid context to
> ask any questions.

Yes because unlike tourists, they do not bring any holiday snapshots
that everybody can talk about, and also to avoid arrest, singing
"Kill the Boer" can only be done in appropriate circumstances.

> They can't know that they don't know.

"There are known knowns.
These are things we know that we know.
There are known unknowns.
That is to say, there are things that we know we don't know.
But there are also unknown unknowns.
There are things we don't know we don't know."

-- Donald Henry Rumsfeld, 13th Secretary of Defense,
on February 12th, 2002

> If you were in Calcutta your nearest neighbour would be
> 10mm. but you still couldn't get a BigMac.

Hmm, <https://secure.flickr.COM/photos/85296574@N00/572516321/>

> Or did you read that here they are made of donkey meat.

Does it taste better than horse?

<http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-202_162-57571350/south-africa-buffalo-and-donkey-found-in-beef-products/>

<http://www.businessweek.com/news/2013-02-27/south-africa-starts-probe-into-mislabeled-donkey-buffalo-meat>

QUOTE

About 68 percent of 139 samples of meat taken from South African supermarkets
and butcheries in the middle of last year contained unlabeled traces of donkey,
goat or water buffalo, a study by the University of Stellenbosch found this week."

UNQUOTE

Apparently lion is a popular form of meat in Illinois.

<http://www.npr.ORG/blogs/thesalt/2013/03/25/175296454/why-illinois-is-roaring-mad-about-lion-meat>

--

"Of all the white groups that are in South Africa, it is only the Afrikaners
that are truly South Africans in the true sense of the word."

-- polygamist Jacob Gedleyihlekisa Zuma

[Nick B.]

In comp.sys.raspberry-pi The Natural Philosopher <t...@invalid.invalid> wrote:
> On 05/04/13 19:38, Unknown wrote:
>> On Fri, 05 Apr 2013 15:50:31 +0000, J G Miller wrote:
>>
>>> On Friday, April 5th, 2013, at 07:53:28h +0000, Chris Glur chided:
>>>
>>>
>>> Incidentally, if it is not considered too impertinent a question, how
>>> close are your nearest neighbors?
>>> ....
>> Often 10m. You've heard about people coming back from the war, who
>> can't discuss any thing: because the 'home people' can't have a
>> valid context to ask any questions. They can't know that they
>> don't know. If you were in Calcutta your nearest neighbour would be
>> 10mm. but you still couldn't get a BigMac. Or did you read that here
>> they are made of donkey meat.
>>
>>>> Can rPi drive PC bidirectional par-port?
>>>
>>> Because you want to connect a bidirectional parallel port printer?
>>>
>> No. Writing rPi's stdOut to a PC's ser-port has problems for voltage
>> incompatibility. Whereas rPi's 3.3V should drive TTL. And whereas
>> par-port is originally intended as OUTPUT only, newer ones do input,
>> although often only 5-bits wide.
>
> parallel ports always did input: you need it for device status.
>
> they just were not BIDIRECTIONAL nor always 8 bits wide input wise.

There are old parallel port filter transfer utilities such as Laplink.
D-link used to make an ethernet adaptor that plugged into a parallel
port too...

>
>>>
>>> From <http://www.raspberrypi.ORG/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=44&t=7221>
>>
>> Thanks, I'll check that now.
>>
>
>

--

Nick B.

[Nick Odell]

On Sat, 06 Apr 2013 13:17:55 +0100, Hils <hi...@saynotospam.net> wrote:

>I'm not sure the need for a FAQ is as great as in the days when all this
>electronic communication were still new-fangled. Since then the www has
>growed, and folks know how to search for stuff.
>
>Perhaps just a small FAQ.

(from comp.sys.raspberry-pi)
It depends on how evangelical you are feeling. If the group is only
for the cognoscenti then you don't need much. If on the other hand,
you are trying to encourage people like me (I only know about the Pi
from what I've read in TheRegister) to become hands-on then there
needs to be a lot more basic stuff.

I subscribed to the new group, not because I know about the Pi but
because I want to know about it. Don't think of me as a beginner, I'm
a pre-beginner, really.

Nick

[Gordon Henderson]

In article <5k60m8h413hq0s097...@4ax.com>,

Nick Odell <gurzhfvp...@ntlworld.com.invalid> wrote:

>I subscribed to the new group, not because I know about the Pi but
>because I want to know about it. Don't think of me as a beginner, I'm
>a pre-beginner, really.

While I'm all for Usenet, etc. this group is coming over a year after the
Pi went on-sale and as such, there is a years worth of information in the
forums on rasperrypi.org, as well as an FAQ and many wiki pages - not to
mention many many websites that have sprung up giving out information,
software, selling hardware and so on for the Pi.

(And #raspberry pi exists on Freenode, and has been there for over a
year too)

Unless you've a real aversion to the interwebs then start on the forums,
you'll find far more there than anywhere else right now.

Gordon

[Michael Black]

On Sat, 6 Apr 2013, Gordon Henderson wrote:

> In article <5k60m8h413hq0s097...@4ax.com>,
> Nick Odell <gurzhfvp...@ntlworld.com.invalid> wrote:
>
>> I subscribed to the new group, not because I know about the Pi but
>> because I want to know about it. Don't think of me as a beginner, I'm
>> a pre-beginner, really.
>
> While I'm all for Usenet, etc. this group is coming over a year after the
> Pi went on-sale and as such, there is a years worth of information in the
> forums on rasperrypi.org, as well as an FAQ and many wiki pages - not to
> mention many many websites that have sprung up giving out information,
> software, selling hardware and so on for the Pi.
>

That's the issue. People jump to the web forums, when really it's a slim
replication of Usenet. But since the traffic is there, a new space won't
necessarily have traffic.

If this newsgroup can't be seeded with useful information to begin with,
then it won't lure people and it will just be a blank newsgroup.

> (And #raspberry pi exists on Freenode, and has been there for over a
> year too)
>
> Unless you've a real aversion to the interwebs then start on the forums,
> you'll find far more there than anywhere else right now.
>

SOme of us do. I remember the whining over fifteen years ago about
usenet, but then those people never came. Instead they bought into the
web as a passive experience, until forums became common, at which point
they talked about "web 2.0". They claim the forums are so much better,
yet crossposting, spam, all the "lol's", that stuff comes from decades of
networking on Usenet. It makes us invisible.

I don't want to see your photo, I don't want informationa about you, I
want to see what you have to say. I dont' care about seeing photos of
endless replications of the same project. Yes, photos can be useful at
times, but that's why the web and URLs were created, I can just as easily
point to a photo "on the web" from here by putting the URL in as by using
a new fangled web forum. And too often, because it can be done and there
is no self-limiting and it doesn't cost the poster a thing, people post
endless photos. Just more stuff to wade through.

I have sampled some forums in recent months, because I actually got DSL
instead of the dialup I'd had since 1996. DSL makes that junk, that high
overhead, possible, yet of course it comes at the cost of people spending
a lot more for internet access. Even using a text only browser, there's a
fairly high overhead for web forums.

The problem isn't that web forums exist, because many of the people using
them would never have come to Usenet. But, since the traffic is over
there, too many of us have left usenet, going where the traffic is, and
that's why Usenet is dying. If numbers had remained the same, we'd be a
minority but still healthy, but instead not only are we dwarfed by the
number of people using the web forums, but too many have left usenet to go
where the traffic is.

Every time I've seen a newsgroup fade away because the traffic has gone
elsewhere, a very deliberate move in some cases, I refuse to follow. I
just no longer participate in that topic. Yes, it's extremely sad that
the healthiest newsgroup I still read is about tv. At some point I'll
leave Usenet too, because there's no longer enough content, but it won't
be to go somewhere else, I'll just stop.

Michael

[The Natural Philosopher]

On 06/04/13 16:51, Michael Black wrote:

> I don't want to see your photo, I don't want informationa about you,
> I want to see what you have to say. I dont' care about seeing photos
> of endless replications of the same project. Yes, photos can be
> useful at times, but that's why the web and URLs were created, I can
> just as easily point to a photo "on the web" from here by putting the
> URL in as by using a new fangled web forum. And too often, because
> it can be done and there is no self-limiting and it doesn't cost the
> poster a thing, people post endless photos. Just more stuff to wade
> through.
>
>

And thereby hangs an interesting issue; SOME things are ABSOLUTELY 'a
picture tells a thousand words' type subjects. Anything to do with
actually physically building something or taking it apart and fixing
it demands photos really.

They are UTTERLY superfluous with code, unless they are screenshots of a
GUI.

I have no particular ex to grind: usenet for chatting where its
appropriate, web forums for things that need pictures.

[Folderol]

On Sat, 06 Apr 2013 17:08:43 +0100

The Natural Philosopher <t...@invalid.invalid> wrote:

> On 06/04/13 16:51, Michael Black wrote:
>
> > I don't want to see your photo, I don't want informationa about you,
> > I want to see what you have to say. I dont' care about seeing photos
> > of endless replications of the same project. Yes, photos can be
> > useful at times, but that's why the web and URLs were created, I can
> > just as easily point to a photo "on the web" from here by putting the
> > URL in as by using a new fangled web forum. And too often, because
> > it can be done and there is no self-limiting and it doesn't cost the
> > poster a thing, people post endless photos. Just more stuff to wade
> > through.
> >
> >
>
> And thereby hangs an interesting issue; SOME things are ABSOLUTELY 'a
> picture tells a thousand words' type subjects. Anything to do with
> actually physically building something or taking it apart and fixing
> it demands photos really.
>
> They are UTTERLY superfluous with code, unless they are screenshots of a
> GUI.
>
> I have no particular ex to grind: usenet for chatting where its
> appropriate, web forums for things that need pictures.

Over the last 20 years or so I find the number of newsgroups I'm subscribed to
hasn't changed much. However, the *type* of group I read has changed a lot.

The forums I'm subscribed to has slowly risen but they are quite different.
Several are web cartoons - including the obligatory xkcd :)

--
W J G

[Aragorn]

On Saturday 06 April 2013 18:08, The Natural Philosopher conveyed the
following to comp.os.linux.hardware...

> I have no particular ex to grind [...]
^^

Freudian slip? :-D

--
= Aragorn =
GNU/Linux user #223157 - http://www.linuxcounter.net

[Gordon Henderson]

In article <alpine.LNX.2.02.1...@darkstar.example.org>,

I whinged too, but I mostly moved on. There are still a small number
of usenet groups I read, but everything else - it's rinky dinky webby
forums, blogs, etc. Either move with it, or be left out. And you don't
need to make effort to visit them either - there are RSS, etc. feeds
than can bring it all to you.

I watched a very active SCUBA mailing list actually mostly move to usenet
in the late 1990's then within a year or so, vanish almost completely
when the web forums took over. You can't stop it... You can ignore
it, but when what? All the good Pi information right now is on the
raspberrypi.org forums. The people on usenet? Well, that'll mostly be
the RISC-OS crowd, won't it?

Someone will gateway the forum to usenet at some point no-doubt, but look
at the whinging and bleating that goes on on uk.d-i-y regarding the
diy-banter forum...

>I don't want to see your photo, I don't want informationa about you, I
>want to see what you have to say.

These days I do want accountability - and that for me includes a photo
and background information. Without accountability, you're just an
anonymous handle on the intertubes. At a conference thing a few weeks
ago someone came and said hello to me - introduced as his real name
(as that was what was on his badge), but I didn't give him much time -
turned out he was someone I really did want to talk to, but all I knew
was his online "handle". The price for being pseudo-anonymous online?

And that's progress, as they say...

Gordon
--
Gordons Projects in Devon, UK
Projects, Internet Technology, Sysadmin and Training
https://projects.drogon.net/ twitter: @drogon

[The Natural Philosopher]

On 06/04/13 17:28, Aragorn wrote:
> On Saturday 06 April 2013 18:08, The Natural Philosopher conveyed the
> following to comp.os.linux.hardware...
>
>> I have no particular ex to grind [...]
> ^^
>
> Freudian slip? :-D
>

absolutely. I never deny anything.

[Folderol]

On Sun, 07 Apr 2013 06:10:41 +1000
Chris Baird <ab...@brushtail.apana.org.au> wrote:
>
> On 06/04/13 14:01, Nick Odell wrote:

<snip>

> > I subscribed to the new group, not because I know about the Pi but
> > because I want to know about it. Don't think of me as a beginner, I'm
> > a pre-beginner, really.
>

> "Hay Guise! I'll give you lots of Internet backpats for putting up with
> my questions filling the newsgroup that I could've solved in seconds if
> I cared to use Google, but I'm a social person, and I wanna Interact
> Over Internets~~"

On the other hand, I remember my first stumbling attempts on usenet some 20
years ago. Fortunately it was some time before I met up with anyone as
aggressive as you seem to be.

P.S.
O/P reference restored.

--
W J G

[Michael Black]

On Sun, 7 Apr 2013, Chris Baird wrote:

>
> > (from comp.sys.raspberry-pi) It depends on how evangelical you are
> > feeling. If the group is only for the cognoscenti then you don't need
> > much.
>
> > If on the other hand, you are trying to encourage people like
> > me (I only know about the Pi from what I've read in TheRegister)
>

> I'm actually hoping a Usenet group /would/ be something off-road from
> the existing RPi world.. The reason the webforums suck so much is
> they're full of hopeless mouthbreathers-- "hAY gUISE! eVEN tHOUGH tHE
> rASPBERRY pIE hAS bEEN sPAMMED aCROSS tHE bLOGOSPHERE aND tECHNEWS
> sIGHTS cONSTANTLY fOR tHE lAST tWO yEARS, i'VE oNLY jUST hEARD oF tHEM!!
> ... i'M 52, aND i wAnt tO gET iNTO cOMPUTERS!"
>
> Another thing that sucks about webforums is the heavy censorship on
> negative opinions, such as pointlessly expensive shit like the Gertboard
> and other ManToys that don't even try to hide the cost that totally
> excludes them from the Foundation's supposed charter of getting
> teenagers into self-directed programming. (/SMD/ soldering?)
>
You mean, like the "starter kit" from "Make" that's only $129.99, and
gives you all you need to get started, a book, an SD card, some cables, an
AC adapter, a case, a breakout box, and actual Pi? There's no sense
having a $35 board if you are in effect telling people they can't get
started without all this other junk. It's actually making a statement,
and one which goes completely against the concept of a $25 or $35 board,
and it really is about profit, not "being helpful".

Wait for an SD card to go on sale in one of the flyers, dig around in the
garbage until you find a suitable AC adapter, or run it off some scrapped
power supply from a computer or something else, wait to find a desired
cables at a garage sale, or go to a dollar store. Be actually helpful so
the kid can make do with what he can find or scrounge, having spent all
his allowance on the Raspberry Pi board.

> > I subscribed to the new group, not because I know about the Pi but
> > because I want to know about it. Don't think of me as a beginner, I'm
> > a pre-beginner, really.
>

> "Hay Guise! I'll give you lots of Internet backpats for putting up with
> my questions filling the newsgroup that I could've solved in seconds if
> I cared to use Google, but I'm a social person, and I wanna Interact
> Over Internets~~"
>

It's the new internet, everyone is supposed to have a place, so we dumb
things down, like that $129.99 "starter kit" that means people can enter
without any effort (except spending money).

In some circles, that's exactly what the Pi is being used for, not to
"hack" (ie learning through experience) but buying off the shelf to
replicate what someone else has done. For a lot of things, the Pi will be
overkill, but since it's cheap people will use it for mundane things where
a simple logic IC might do the job, for virtually nothing, except that
requires soldering skill and learning.

Michael

[Unknown]

On Sat, 06 Apr 2013 20:23:56 -0400, someone wrote:

> I'm actually hoping a Usenet group /would/ be something off-road from
> the existing RPi world.. The reason the webforums suck so much is
> they're full of hopeless mouthbreathers-- "hAY gUISE! eVEN tHOUGH tHE
> rASPBERRY pIE hAS bEEN sPAMMED aCROSS tHE bLOGOSPHERE aND tECHNEWS
> sIGHTS cONSTANTLY fOR tHE lAST tWO yEARS, i'VE oNLY jUST hEARD oF tHEM!!
> ... i'M 52, aND i wAnt tO gET iNTO cOMPUTERS!"
>
> Another thing that sucks about webforums is the heavy censorship on
> negative opinions, such as pointlessly expensive shit like the Gertboard
> and other ManToys that don't even try to hide the cost that totally
> excludes them from the Foundation's supposed charter of getting
> teenagers into self-directed programming. (/SMD/ soldering?)

Yes, perhaps that's inevitable since it's privately owned/controlled.
So I THANK the persons who initiated this USEnet group.

One thing about ASKING and using some else's experience rather than
searching [on google] is that 1. rPi is new and not all questions
have been fielded yet; 2. even though the fact of serial-txt output
from the 'header pins' is listed somewhere already in the docos;
in my case I didn't REMEMBER that RS232 is not just TTL-levels.
So it seems to me that directly connecting to a PC-ser-port is not
feasible. But I expect the rPi's 3.3V to be able to drive a parallel
port [perhaps 4?5 bits wide].

Another interesting observation, is that no one will reply to my
query "if scratch/squeak CAN write scenarios/action-sequences,
which will demonstrate the alternate/[IFThenElse] and looping
constructs?". I haven't got access to a running rPi lately.