WTD: UP1500 or UP2000+ motherboard

[to...@tonyjones.com]

Looking for a Samsung UP1500 or an API UP2000+ alpha motherboard (both are PC/ATX form factor). Needs to be working and priced realistically (12 years old). Will also consider entire system based on these motherboards.

I'm located in Portland, Oregon. Appreciate reply via e-mail. Thanks!

[Robert Riches]

On 2012-11-10, to...@tonyjones.com <to...@tonyjones.com> wrote:
> Looking for a Samsung UP1500 or an API UP2000+ alpha motherboard (both are PC/ATX form factor). Needs to be working and priced realistically (12 years old). Will also consider entire system based on these motherboards.
>
> I'm located in Portland, Oregon. Appreciate reply via e-mail. Thanks!

The UP2000 is an extended/expanded ATX size that requires a case
slightly larger than would fit a normal ATX board. I don't know
for sure about the UP2000+, but if it's also larger than normal
ATX, you'd want to take that into account before choosing a case.

(Will answer the separate email inquiry soon, but wanted the size
info to get to anyone who might still be listening here.)

--
Robert Riches
spamt...@jacob21819.net
(Yes, that is one of my email addresses.)

[Marc Schlensog]

The UP2000(+) is, as Robert mentioned, E-ATX. You will also have to
make sure that your PSU can handle the power requirements. 600W with.
for these times, pretty uncommon current requirements. Good luck!
When it comes to the UP1500, you will not be able to pay realistic
prices, since those things are collectors items. From what I can tell,
not a lot were made and even less still exist and once you have one,
you usually don't get rid of it. They are fairly nice systems, though.

[to...@tonyjones.com]

On Sunday, November 11, 2012 12:37:41 AM UTC-8, Marc Schlensog wrote:

> The UP2000(+) is, as Robert mentioned, E-ATX

...
> when it comes to the UP1500, you will not be able to pay realistic prices,

> since those things are collectors items.

Appreciate the info. Thanks! The UP1500 isn't anything I personally would want badly enough to pay collector pricing on.

[Marc Schlensog]

Steven Hirsch replied to me personally, I hope he doesn't mind that I
share his valuable information here too:

"A significant number of the UP2000+ boards have chipsets that have
succumbed to electro-migration in varying degrees. I gave away my
system last year to another collector. It was progressively losing its
ability to work with multiple memory modules installed and was down to
512MB when we parted ways.

"Even if you can find a working UP2000, don't count on it for long-term
reliability."

This is consistent with my experience with a lot of CS20 (which
basically are UP2000+ systems in a 1U enclosure) and various other
reports. While the API systems are to varying degrees* pretty nice on
paper, they aren't built to last. The CS20 had another flaw in form of
an unreliable PSU.

b.r.,

Marc

*) This most certainly doesn't include UP1000 and UP1100 :)

[to...@tonyjones.com]

On Sunday, November 11, 2012 10:11:17 PM UTC-8, Marc Schlensog wrote:
> Steven Hirsch replied to me personally, I hope he doesn't mind that I
> share his valuable information here too:
>
> "A significant number of the UP2000+ boards have chipsets that have
> succumbed to electro-migration in varying degrees. I gave away my
> system last year to another collector. It was progressively losing its
> ability to work with multiple memory modules installed and was down to
>
> 512MB when we parted ways.
> "Even if you can find a working UP2000, don't count on it for long-term
> reliability."
>
> This is consistent with my experience with a lot of CS20 (which
> basically are UP2000+ systems in a 1U enclosure) and various other
> reports. While the API systems are to varying degrees* pretty nice on
> paper, they aren't built to last. The CS20 had another flaw in form of
> an unreliable PSU.

...

> *) This most certainly doesn't include UP1000 and UP1100 :)

Is this saying that the UP1000/UP1100 isn't nice on paper or don't have the same long-term reliability issues as the UP2000(+) ?

I'd heard several other reports of the UP2000(+) not being long term reliable. Thanks for confirming. Is the unobtanium UP1500 similarly afflicted?

If someone wanted an Alpha workstation which supports Linux, what would be the intersection of "fast" (for 2001 era), quiet (workstation), reliable and reasonably obtainable be? ATX form factor isn't essential, the UP1500 just sounded like a nice system due to EV68/AGP/DDR.

[Marc Schlensog]

On Mon, 12 Nov 2012 15:54:48 -0800 (PST)
to...@tonyjones.com wrote:

> On Sunday, November 11, 2012 10:11:17 PM UTC-8, Marc Schlensog wrote:
> > Steven Hirsch replied to me personally, I hope he doesn't mind that
> > I share his valuable information here too:
> >
> > "A significant number of the UP2000+ boards have chipsets that have
> > succumbed to electro-migration in varying degrees. I gave away my
> > system last year to another collector. It was progressively losing
> > its ability to work with multiple memory modules installed and was
> > down to
> >
> > 512MB when we parted ways.
> > "Even if you can find a working UP2000, don't count on it for
> > long-term reliability."
> >
> > This is consistent with my experience with a lot of CS20 (which
> > basically are UP2000+ systems in a 1U enclosure) and various other
> > reports. While the API systems are to varying degrees* pretty nice
> > on paper, they aren't built to last. The CS20 had another flaw in
> > form of an unreliable PSU.
> ...
> > *) This most certainly doesn't include UP1000 and UP1100 :)
>
> Is this saying that the UP1000/UP1100 isn't nice on paper or don't
> have the same long-term reliability issues as the UP2000(+) ?

The UP1000/UP1100 aren't even nice on paper. What makes them borderline
interesting, is the use of AMD chipsets, but the benefits of that never
came to fruition. The UP1000/UP1100 are very memory limited, in size as
well as in bandwidth (max. 768MB, single channel SD-RAM). The UP1500 on
the other hand is much more useful in that regard (up to 4GB DDR266).

> I'd heard several other reports of the UP2000(+) not being long term
> reliable. Thanks for confirming. Is the unobtanium UP1500 similarly
> afflicted?

I don't think so.

> If someone wanted an Alpha workstation which supports Linux, what
> would be the intersection of "fast" (for 2001 era), quiet
> (workstation), reliable and reasonably obtainable be? ATX form
> factor isn't essential, the UP1500 just sounded like a nice system
> due to EV68/AGP/DDR.

The UP1500's AGP port is a bit... special. Don't expect wonders from it.
If I had to chose a decent system, it would probably be a DS10 or, if
you can get a hold of one cheaply (yeah right, haha!), a DS15.
The largest I'd go for a hobbyist system, is a DS20E, DS25, if you
can live with them consuming ~500W doing nothing.

b.r.,

Marc

[Anton Ertl]

to...@tonyjones.com writes:
>I'd heard several other reports of the UP2000(+) not being long term reliab=

>le. Thanks for confirming. Is the unobtanium UP1500 similarly afflicted?

We bought two UP1500 systems, and one of them is working to this day.
We don't remember what happened to the other, it has vanished.

>If someone wanted an Alpha workstation which supports Linux, what would be=
> the intersection of "fast" (for 2001 era), quiet (workstation), reliable a=
>nd reasonably obtainable be? ATX form factor isn't essential, the UP1500=

> just sounded like a nice system due to EV68/AGP/DDR.

It is nice.

We also have an AlphaStation XP1000, which works to this day, and we
had two LX164 boxes with which we were happy, too (once we used SRM
firmware instead of the horrible AlphaBIOS). I have no idea how
obtainable these are nowadays, though.

- anton
--
M. Anton Ertl Some things have to be seen to be believed
an...@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at Most things have to be believed to be seen
http://www.complang.tuwien.ac.at/anton/home.html

[DiskMan]

You're right on both accounts. I still have my UP2000+ (rarely use it since they seem to have issues with electron migrations and the CPU's go out pretty readily) and a UP1500 that I still use as a network server (home LAN.)

I managed to snag mine a few years back, brand new, in Japan at Yahoo Auctions Japan. Paid about $250 for it when it was all said and done and you're right, I pretty much consider it a collectors item.

As for the UP200+, I used an extended ATX case (I believe ATC) and bolted a small sheet of aluminum to the back and then bolted the Slot B cartridges to that so that everything was nice and stable. As for for power, using a 750W PSU... the big thing is the amperage, if it's too low it won't even boot despite the wattage.

[Steven Hirsch]

On 09/27/2013 10:01 PM, DiskMan wrote:
> You're right on both accounts. I still have my UP2000+ (rarely use it since
> they seem to have issues with electron migrations and the CPU's go out
> pretty readily) and a UP1500 that I still use as a network server (home
> LAN.)

My UP2000+ was getting increasingly flaky every time I turned it on. Had to
start pulling memory out until it would POST. By the time I essentially gave
it away, the chipset was unable to drive more than 512MB of memory.