Dell Says Too Many Versions Of Linux...
Corrie
That sounds about right.
http://linuxtoday.com/it_management/2005093001826NWHWSW
Linux is a support nightmare for a manufacturer unless he wants to stick
with one and only one distribution and risk pissing off the religious
Linux fanatics who have sworn allegiance to other distributions.
Linux, when confusion is your primary goal.
peterwn
If they retailed computers with Linux of any flavor, that would be
quite OK, as long as the hardware is reasonably generic and device
makers have provided Linux drivers or at least issued the
specifications so they can be written by the community. The purchaser
can then buy it and install his or her preferred flavor of Linux.
Dell is probably using hardware elements where there is some Microsoft
lock-in, which especially seems to apply to recently developed devices
for several months after their release. This particularly includes
some types of winmodem where Linux drivers are not available with the
product.
Of course the continuing payola from Microsoft (possibly with tax
avoidance implications with respect to international transfer pricing)
for 'Dell recommends XP' is probably too irresisttible.
ray
"there must be over a hundred Linux distributions" - actually, according
to distrowatch there are over 350 active Linux distributions. So what? So
they don't ship any? I really don't see a problem here. If they pick one
or two distributions to offer, then you can get the computer without
paying the MS tax. Most people who would prefer another distribution are
capable of setting it up - so what's the problem?
Handover Phist
Hardly. I dont support linux, I support Slackware which is a Linux based
operating system that's easy to deploy, easy to configure (for me),
runs for friggin ever, is immune to virii, highly (and I mean highly)
scalable, inexpensive, and can run anything available to the open source
community as well as commercial software like VMWare. The versions have
changed without the administrative aspects changing which is fantastic
for me as I dont need to memorise where the buttons have all moved to.
It runs on an amazing amount of available hardware. There's literally
nothing my customers can lose by contracting me to support a server that
never dies. My problem is expansion because my existing customers dont
have problems!
--
It would seem that evil retreats when forcibly confronted
-- Yarnek of Excalbia, "The Savage Curtain", stardate 5906.5
Skeets
the problem is that microsoft gets paid even if linux is installed, as
i understand it. the tax is still there, not to mention the addition
of the less compatibility tax.
i think one's only bet is to diy at a local shop or over the internet.
i may end up goign that route, however, i have a question - what are
the best mfrs and product lines to increase linux compatibility?
i think nvidia is the answer for sound cards. what about hard drives?
what about dvd/cd rw? motherboards? memory? nic cards? modem cards?
etc...
tia..
George Ellison
From my experiences, as far as hard drives and optical media, anything IDE/PATA
should work ok. My new motherboard has SATA, but I've never used it and can't
verify whether it works or not.
Memory should work just fine provided the motherboard supports it. As for
motherboards themselves, I've used boards with nForce and VIA chipsets and
had very little in the way of problems (if you get a VIA board tho, and it
happens to be a K8M800, pick up a video card (nVidia supports Linux fairly
well). You'll save yourself a lot of pain). I don't know what kind of support
Intel provides, because I don't use Intel.
As far as networking, as above, VIA and nForce seem to work fine. I have never
used a dial-up modem with Linux, but any PCI serial modem (as opposed to a
UART-less WinModem) should do the trick.
If you decide to pick up a printer with it, steer clear of Lexmark. HP seems
to be ok.
morfeeus
Considering the fact that Dell can barely support XP on their crap, I
don't blame them for not wanting to try something that would require that
their enjinears go back to night school to get their GEDs.
We have about 1200 machines, unfortunately 90% Dell and the newer they are
the worse they suck. The old IBMs, Gateways, and assorted oddball
machines just sit there and run. That is, at least as well as XP normally
runs. Interestingly enough, a few Dells are being used as application
specific servers with Debian and they work great - that is once we figure
out which driver works with Dell's nonstandard hardware - go figure.
morfeeus
George Ellison
If I buy a PC anymore, I just get an eMachines or something similar. Standard
'white box' machine with no surprises. Now only if they came OS-free.
ray
>>>then you can get the computer without paying the MS tax.<<
>
> the problem is that microsoft gets paid even if linux is installed, as
> i understand it. the tax is still there, not to mention the addition
> of the less compatibility tax.
>
DELL is charging $36 less for the models with Linux installed in place of
MS.
> i think one's only bet is to diy at a local shop or over the internet.
>
> i may end up goign that route, however, i have a question - what are
> the best mfrs and product lines to increase linux compatibility?
>
> i think nvidia is the answer for sound cards. what about hard drives?
> what about dvd/cd rw? motherboards? memory? nic cards? modem cards?
hard drive - whatever is cheapest - any IDE drive will work.
same for DVD/CD-rw
same for memory
most nic cards
see the linmodem howto, or get a real modem - not winmodem.
motherboards - I'd check some of the major distro hardware compatibility
lists and check at www.yolinux.com
> etc...
>
> tia..
George Ellison
> On Sat, 22 Oct 2005 23:13:10 -0400, George Ellison wrote:
>
>
> > If I buy a PC anymore, I just get an eMachines or something similar. Standard
> > 'white box' machine with no surprises. Now only if they came OS-free.
>
> I would suggest otherwise.
> An eMachines monitor almost set my house on fire.
> Then to top it off they wanted $75.00 to ship it back.
> When I got the new one it had exactly the same design fault as the
> original: a diode right next to a high power resistor (one of the big
> square ones) that would generate a ton of heat, short the diode and cause
> the monitor to overheat, smoke and eventually catch on fire.
>
> Thank goodness for my central smoke alarm system.
>
> By a Dell for $299.00 and install Linux on it.
> Works like a champ.
I've got an eMachines flat screen that I've been using for a year now with no
problems. Doesn't get more than slightly warm unless I try to run it out of
spec.
George Ellison
> Well I loved my eMachines monitor (good price, nice image) until it flamed
> on me.
> I guess I'm just sour on them after a bad experience.
CRT? Flat screen? What resolution were you trying to run it at?
George Ellison
> On Sat, 22 Oct 2005 21:25:07 -0600, ray wrote:
>
>
> > DELL is charging $36 less for the models with Linux installed in place of
> > MS.
>
> I would guess that is about right considering they don't have to pay a
> Windows license and the extra support issues for Linux.
>
> >> i think one's only bet is to diy at a local shop or over the internet.
> >>
> >> i may end up goign that route, however, i have a question - what are
> >> the best mfrs and product lines to increase linux compatibility?
> >>
> >> i think nvidia is the answer for sound cards. what about hard drives?
> >> what about dvd/cd rw? motherboards? memory? nic cards? modem cards?
> >
> > hard drive - whatever is cheapest - any IDE drive will work. same for
>
> Watch out for Western Digital.
> They just changed their warranty procedures.
> The way I understand it is if you DON'T buy from a VAR, IOW you buy a kit
> at CompUSA, your warranty is 1 year instead of 3 years.
Not really much of a factor. They call it a bathtub curve for a reason.
>
>
> > DVD/CD-rw
>
> Sony or Liteon.
>
Pretty much anything, though SCSI or SATA might be a bit more work.
> > same for memory
>
> Try and match the MB with memory. IOW look for reviews from people who
> have the combo working.
>
Speed, too.
> > most nic cards
>
> Cheapest is best.
>
> > see the linmodem howto, or get a real modem - not winmodem. motherboards
>
> External.
>
Too pricey. As long as it's got a UART chip and the pins fit, you're good.
Freeride
> If I buy a PC anymore, I just get an eMachines or something similar.
> Standard
> 'white box' machine with no surprises. Now only if they came OS-free.
Why not just build your own? It's really not that difficult, takes maybe 30
to 45 minutes to build piece together the hardware.
George Ellison
I probably will with the next one. For this one, I'd been using throwaway
laptops for the past few years and basically walked in with the same
mentality (this was before I used Linux). I've since upgraded the motherboard,
memory, and graphics, and fully intend to upgrade until the case violates
truth-in-advertising laws in most states (although I've covered the "Designed
for Windows XP" sticker with the Athlon 64 sticker that came in the box.)
--
"There is no dark side of the moon, really.
As a matter of fact, it's all dark"
--Roger, the Irish Doorman
Tattoo Vampire
shotgunned a beer and wrote:
[...]
flatty alias #2,194
--
My computer runs MY operating system: GNU/Linux
Registered Linux User #376403
The Microsoft Motto: "We're the leaders, wait for us!"
John Bailo
> The replacement had the same flaw but I relocated the power resistor and
> it worked fine until I gave it away and last check it is still working
> fine now.
Just don't let the pocket calculator on your belt get caught on it.
--
360 updated 10/5
http://360.yahoo.com/manfrommars_43
7
It sounds about right from Dell$ that accepts back handers
from micoshaft for its pre-install contract agreements
to micoshaft to lock out / limit GNU/Linux pre-install
and actively engage in denying market share for GNU/Linux
would want to say something like that.
The same idiots at Dell$ can say the same thing for the
windope xp and windope 95 and still come out looking like
the perfect idiots!
They are doing one version of Linux and thats good enough.
I can't see any problems with that.
Just continue with it!
If Dell$ have 10 different versions of windopes shipping,
then ship 10 different GNU/Linuxes as well before opening
mouth again!
The user base of other Linuxes can figure out / port other
Linuxes and how stuff works to make it all compatible.
Linønut
> From my experiences, as far as hard drives and optical media, anything IDE/PATA
> should work ok. My new motherboard has SATA, but I've never used it and can't
> verify whether it works or not.
It will work with kernel 2.6.11 and above (or with recent 2.4
backports).
With the 2.6 kernel, /dev/hda becomes /dev/sda, and USB's /dev/sda1
becomes /dev/uba1.
> Memory should work just fine provided the motherboard supports it. As for
> motherboards themselves, I've used boards with nForce and VIA chipsets and
> had very little in the way of problems (if you get a VIA board tho, and it
> happens to be a K8M800, pick up a video card (nVidia supports Linux fairly
> well). You'll save yourself a lot of pain). I don't know what kind of support
> Intel provides, because I don't use Intel.
Intel ICH5 (?) works. For recent laptops, you'll want to upgrade to
Xorg (in lieu of XFree86), I think.
> If you decide to pick up a printer with it, steer clear of Lexmark. HP seems
> to be ok.
My Brother laser printer works well. The toner cartridges cost almost
as much as the printer, though.
--
Treat yourself to the devices, applications, and services running on the
GNU/Linux® operating system!
Linønut
> Watch out for Western Digital.
> They just changed their warranty procedures.
> The way I understand it is if you DON'T buy from a VAR, IOW you buy a kit
> at CompUSA, your warranty is 1 year instead of 3 years.
Unfortunately, a warranty won't help your data.
"They didn't say that the hard-drive needed to be replaced, they just
said that the motherboard needed to be replaced, and everything that
I've been working on for the LAST TWO FUCKING YEARS OF MY LIFE IS
GONE!!!"
-- Steven Thrasher
>> DVD/CD-rw
>
> Sony or Liteon.
My Liteon burner is nice.
>> same for memory
>
> Try and match the MB with memory. IOW look for reviews from people who
> have the combo working.
Also match memory chips, I hear.
>> see the linmodem howto, or get a real modem - not winmodem. motherboards
>
> External.
Or look for a real modem card.
Linønut
>> Sony or Liteon.
>>
> Pretty much anything, though SCSI or SATA might be a bit more work.
Nah. SCSI is no problem at all.
Linønut
> I probably will with the next one. For this one, I'd been using throwaway
> laptops for the past few years and basically walked in with the same
> mentality (this was before I used Linux). I've since upgraded the motherboard,
> memory, and graphics, and fully intend to upgrade until the case violates
> truth-in-advertising laws in most states (although I've covered the "Designed
> for Windows XP" sticker with the Athlon 64 sticker that came in the box.)
Stick the XP sticker on the porcelain commode. That's the place for it.
Ian Hilliard
> Pretty much anything, though SCSI or SATA might be a bit more work.
I'm running a SATA hard drive in my notebook. It was recognised straight
off and is works really well. The only problem I have at the moment is
getting the DVD+-RW to run DMA on the Centrino chipset. I hope that the
newer kernels will support it at some time.
Ian
Linønut
As far as I know, you don't need to enable DMA. That's a /dev/hda
thing, not a SATA or /dev/sda thing. Those drives always use it, I
believe. I was able to successfully burn a DVD with hdparm saying
there's no DMA.
Ian Hilliard
> After takin' a swig o' grog, Ian Hilliard belched out this bit o' wisdom:
>
>> On Sat, 22 Oct 2005 23:45:22 -0400, George Ellison wrote:
>>
>>> Pretty much anything, though SCSI or SATA might be a bit more work.
>>
>> I'm running a SATA hard drive in my notebook. It was recognised straight
>> off and is works really well. The only problem I have at the moment is
>> getting the DVD+-RW to run DMA on the Centrino chipset. I hope that the
>> newer kernels will support it at some time.
>
> As far as I know, you don't need to enable DMA. That's a /dev/hda
> thing, not a SATA or /dev/sda thing. Those drives always use it, I
> believe. I was able to successfully burn a DVD with hdparm saying
> there's no DMA.
The hard drive is SATA and works very well. The DVD+-RW is IDE and it will
not do DMA with the Centrino chipset. At least that is what a google of
the issue came up with. I have no problems burning CDs and DVDs except for
the fact that it is quite slow. The burner should run at 52X but only
manages about 15X. It is not a major issue and it is definitely no issue
that would make me boot into that other OS :)
Where I am really hanging out for DMA on the drive is so that I can watch
DVDs. The next time I head off from home I would like to take a few movies
with me or perhaps pick up a few on my travels.
Ian
alt
Hey flatfart. You still a racist?
*plonk*
John Bailo
> I let the data speak for itself rather than follow some politically
> correct bullcrap.
Black wealth blossoms in suburbs
D-FW ranks among top U.S. areas for well-off professionals
10:02 PM CDT on Saturday, June 25, 2005
By JENNIFER LaFLEUR / The Dallas Morning News
http://www.dallasnews.com/sharedcontent/dws/dn/latestnews/stories/062605dnmetbpcoview.46384de4.html
Dallas-Fort Worth is emerging as a dynamic center for high-income black
professionals, after years of being little more than an afterthought in
discussions about affluence.
The number of black households in the metro area that earn at least
$100,000 tripled during the 1990s, propelling Dallas-Fort Worth into the
ranks of the nation's leading metropolitan areas for upper-income black
professionals, according to a Dallas Morning News analysis. Adjusted for
inflation, $100,000 in 2000 is the equivalent of about $75,000 in 1990, the
baseline for the analysis.
Among 28 metropolitan areas with at least 1 million people, and in which at
least 10 percent of households are black, the Dallas-Fort Worth area has
the sixth-highest percentage of black households making at least $100,000.
That places the D-FW area behind established centers of black affluence
such as Atlanta and Washington, D.C., and ahead of Indianapolis, Houston
and Philadelphia.
Suburbs such as Coppell, Frisco, Cedar Hill, Mansfield and Rowlett – not
the central cities of Dallas and Fort Worth – saw the most dramatic
increases, a trend hardly unique to this area.
The D-FW area also posted the fifth-biggest gain in upper-income black
households during the 1990s, growing from about 5,300 to more than 16,000
households.
John Bailo
> I let the data speak for itself rather than follow some politically
> correct bullcrap.
http://www.afrol.com/articles/15370
South Africa
Economy - Development | Labour | Science - Education
"Dramatic increase in black affluence" in SA
The study found that the prevalence of affluence among South Africa's black
majority is still low in relative terms, while it had grown considerably.
Blacks' share of the affluent rose from 22 percent in 1995 to 41 percent by
2000. The proportion of blacks among the very affluent increased from 15
percent to 28 percent over the same period.
The researchers thus found it proven that "there has been a strong increase
in the social mobility of blacks since the political transition in 1994. It
is clear that there has been substantial progress in eradicating labour
market discrimination," the study adds.
John Bailo
> I let the data speak for itself rather than follow some politically
> correct bullcrap.
Here's some more Sunday reading for you:
http://www.negrophile.com/phile/articles/it_creates_a_legacy_a_model_for_others.html
and
John Bailo
> Don't even ask about Washington D.C.
> It's not even safe to walk the streets at night in that town.
Look, you're argument is this:
"All blacks are bad".
But I just posted several articles on Black wealth which show that *some*
blacks are superior to the general population of whites ( based on your own
narrow minded opinion of what constitutes superior, that is, wealth ).
I didn't say "all blacks are angels", but I clearly destroyed your argument
about "all blacks" and "all black Africans".
What is more, the trends I pointed to, Black affluence, is clearly rising.
In Queens, New York City, where I was born and grew up, black household
median income is greater than white median income.
I let the data "speak for itself".
Linønut
>> As far as I know, you don't need to enable DMA. That's a /dev/hda
>> thing, not a SATA or /dev/sda thing. Those drives always use it, I
>> believe. I was able to successfully burn a DVD with hdparm saying
>> there's no DMA.
>
> The hard drive is SATA and works very well. The DVD+-RW is IDE and it will
> not do DMA with the Centrino chipset. At least that is what a google of
> the issue came up with. I have no problems burning CDs and DVDs except for
> the fact that it is quite slow. The burner should run at 52X but only
> manages about 15X.
Ah, then maybe I'm in the same situation, and don't realize it. What is
the name of the dev file for your DVD?
> Where I am really hanging out for DMA on the drive is so that I can watch
> DVDs. The next time I head off from home I would like to take a few movies
> with me or perhaps pick up a few on my travels.
I'll try to watch a movie, then.
Linønut
> If you're talking to me, I'm not a racist: I'm a realist.
>
> I let the data speak for itself rather than follow some politically
> correct bullcrap.
^^^^^^^^--- fishcrap
John Bailo
> Of course some blacks are superior to whites just like some Asians,
> Russians, Slavs and Poles.
Thank you.
This post will be sealed in carbon nanotubules for preservation.
> I'd love to see your proof on that one Bailo.
I posted it here several times. You can google it in Groups search.
> Just Friday in fact and I'll clue you in on something, Queens has
> become settled by mostly Asians in recent years.
>
> Mainly Korean, some Chinese and many Pakastanis as well.
Depends what part of Queens you're talking about. Astoria, Jamacia, South
Ozone Park ( my home town ), Briarwood (my high school), Kew Gardens....
> So explain to me how people can come here from a foreign country, barely
> speak the language, start small business and do so well for themselves
> while others who live here can't seem to graduate school and will more
> than likely end up either in jail or dead.
Yes, it's a shame:
White Poverty Rate for Alabama:
http://alabamamaps.ua.edu/alabama/income/pg158.pdf
You must also take into account that the people who come to this country and
start small businesses, if given an even footing, would probably do better
than most Ivy League graduates, who are programmed to deal well within a
very precise set of guidelines ( SATs, LSATs, MCATS ) rather than the rough
and tumble of the general business world.
Take Bill Gate$ for instance. He's the biggest welfare recipient in the
world. First his parents set him up with a monopoly, then he milked
corporate budgets for 20 years. Where is the striving...the hard work?
I would bet my money on a Punjabi restaurant owner, living in Kent East
Hill, over Bill Gate$ and $teve Ballmer trying to start a Dollar Store, any
day....
John Bailo
> Oh, one last thing, South Ozone Park is a slum.
Gee, I'm sure the Gotti family would like to hear that firsthand.
John Bailo
> Gotti lives in Old Westbury with another home in Howard Beach, both of
> which are far different, if you get my drift, than South Ozone Park.
Howard Beach is just down the street from S. Ozone, down the Cross Bay Blvd.
I know, since I took many bike rides going to Rockaway Beach going that
way.
South Ozone did have a decline during the late 80s, but since then my
parents two story house has been steadily appreciating in value.
Also, my mom and dad just visited and they reported that many residents --
who are of very diverse cultures -- are building new homes up and down the
street.
Also, Aqueduct racetrack, nearby, maybe adding casino gambling soon.
TheLetterK
> Linux is a support nightmare for a manufacturer unless he wants to stick
> with one and only one distribution
support for one.
> and risk pissing off the religious
> Linux fanatics who have sworn allegiance to other distributions.
How would they? As long as X OEM provides Linux support it doesn't
matter if the distro they choose is Y or Z, since both will be supported.
>
> Linux, when confusion is your primary goal.
>
Windows, when solitare is your only friend. Troll.
Tim Smith
flatfish <flat...@linuxmail.org> wrote:
>
> I let the data speak for itself rather than follow some politically
> correct bullcrap.
Nonsense. If you were a realist, rather than a racist, you'd by looking
at more data, such as a breakdown of homicide rates by race AND income
level, instead of just race.
If we were to use your "reasoning", we could conclude that blacks are
more honest than whites, because although blacks make up 12% of the
population, they account for less than 12% of cheating at yacht races,
and less than 12% of the convictions for insider trading, and less than
12% of the convictions for embezzlement.
You clearly came to your conclusions absent any data, and then sought
out data to bolster your conclusions. That screams "racist".
--
--Tim Smith
Tim Smith
Freeride <free...@maillinux.org> wrote:
> Why not just build your own? It's really not that difficult, takes maybe 30
> to 45 minutes to build piece together the hardware.
It costs more.
--
--Tim Smith
Jim Richardson
Hash: SHA1
Provided you want the cheap options. If you want the more expensive
stuff, the nice video cards, etc, you are usually better off building it
up yourself. But at the low end, it's hard to beat the Fry's weekly sale
machine or the like.
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Version: GnuPG v1.4.1 (GNU/Linux)
iD8DBQFDXDLvd90bcYOAWPYRAt3+AJ9plc6FCjpabe7bfADOtnI77xKC8ACgij3k
/BDQvY0DWHJiB9Wx0uVl0Lw=
=5vvt
-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
--
Jim Richardson http://www.eskimo.com/~warlock
"Oh my God, Space Aliens!! Don't eat me, I have a wife and kids!
Eat them!" -- Homer J. Simpson
The Ghost In The Machine
<r...@zianet.com>
wrote
on Sat, 22 Oct 2005 21:25:07 -0600
<pan.2005.10.23....@zianet.com>:
> On Sat, 22 Oct 2005 19:54:25 -0700, Skeets wrote:
>
>>>>then you can get the computer without paying the MS tax.<<
>>
>> the problem is that microsoft gets paid even if linux is installed, as
>> i understand it. the tax is still there, not to mention the addition
>> of the less compatibility tax.
>>
>
> DELL is charging $36 less for the models with Linux installed in place of
> MS.
Probably varies model by model. A trial I did suggested they
were selling the Linux variant -- identically configured,
near as I could tell -- for $10 *more*, on one Optiplex desktop.
Cum grano salis.
[rest snipped]
--
#191, ewi...@earthlink.net
It's still legal to go .sigless.
Ian Hilliard
The DVD+_RW device is on /dev/hdc
The device works all right, I just can't get DMA to work and as such it is
slower than it should be.
On the other hand, under Linux the notebook runs 30% longer on battery, I
have some really great business software and the fonts are just so much
nicer under Linux, even when running MS Word under Crossover Office. It
really pains me when I have to boot into that other OS.
Ian