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Schestowitz wrong again

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Tim Smith

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Jan 20, 2009, 9:21:13 PM1/20/09
to

Moonlight and Mono enable Linux users (and Mac PPC users) to watch
streaming Obama inauguration:

<http://tirania.org/blog/archive/2009/Jan-20.html>

Roy said this would never happen. Microsoft would never let Moonlight
advance to handle the current version of Silverlight. Well, not only
did they "allow" it, they provided help late into the night to help the
Mono/Moonlight developers test.

Not that any Linux user actually needed this to watch the inauguration.
Dozens of sites streamed it, in many different formats. Roy made it
sound like the Silverlight-based site was the *only* online way to
watch.

--
--Tim Smith

Chris Ahlstrom

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Jan 20, 2009, 9:49:38 PM1/20/09
to
After takin' a swig o' grog, Tim Smith belched out
this bit o' wisdom:

> Moonlight and Mono enable Linux users (and Mac PPC users) to watch
> streaming Obama inauguration:
>
> <http://tirania.org/blog/archive/2009/Jan-20.html>
>
> Roy said this would never happen. Microsoft would never let Moonlight
> advance to handle the current version of Silverlight. Well, not only
> did they "allow" it, they provided help late into the night to help the
> Mono/Moonlight developers test.

How very comforting.

> Not that any Linux user actually needed this to watch the inauguration.
> Dozens of sites streamed it, in many different formats. Roy made it
> sound like the Silverlight-based site was the *only* online way to
> watch.

Don't you realize that *you* are the only one who hangs on Roy's every word?

Everyone else takes his quips with a grain of salt.

Anyway, not that I'm tempted to check, but I note Debian is not listed as
compatible with Moonlight. Moon certainly isn't in the Debian repos, though
mono is.

--
Expert, n.:
Someone who comes from out of town and shows slides.

RonB

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Jan 20, 2009, 9:55:34 PM1/20/09
to
Chris Ahlstrom wrote:

>> Roy said this would never happen.  Microsoft would never let Moonlight
>> advance to handle the current version of Silverlight.  Well, not only
>> did they "allow" it, they provided help late into the night to help the
>> Mono/Moonlight developers test.
>
> How very comforting.

Strangely enough I was able to watch the streaming video on my Linux machine
without mono or moonlight.

--
RonB
"There's a story there...somewhere"

Hadron

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Jan 21, 2009, 2:42:21 AM1/21/09
to
RonB <ronb02...@gmail.com> writes:

As Tim said. Question Roy how this was so.

cc

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Jan 21, 2009, 7:31:37 AM1/21/09
to
On Jan 20, 9:49 pm, Chris Ahlstrom <ahlstr...@launchmodem.com> wrote:
> After takin' a swig o' grog, Tim Smith belched out
>   this bit o' wisdom:
>
> > Moonlight and Mono enable Linux users (and Mac PPC users) to watch
> > streaming Obama inauguration:
>
> >    <http://tirania.org/blog/archive/2009/Jan-20.html>
>
> > Roy said this would never happen.  Microsoft would never let Moonlight
> > advance to handle the current version of Silverlight.  Well, not only
> > did they "allow" it, they provided help late into the night to help the
> > Mono/Moonlight developers test.
>
> How very comforting.
>
> > Not that any Linux user actually needed this to watch the inauguration.  
> > Dozens of sites streamed it, in many different formats.  Roy made it
> > sound like the Silverlight-based site was the *only* online way to
> > watch.
>
> Don't you realize that *you* are the only one who hangs on Roy's every word?
>

Everyone hangs on everyone's word in here. It is the entire purpose of
COLA. I made a typo 3 years ago, and it will surely be shoved in my
face when needed. The idea is not to have Roy acknowledge his mistake,
because that never happens, and not just for Roy. But maybe next time
when the topic of moonlight comes up, he'll have new evidence to pull
from to make more informed posts.

Don Zeigler

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Jan 21, 2009, 8:13:13 AM1/21/09
to
cc wrote:

> Everyone hangs on everyone's word in here.

No one hangs on yours. Fuck off.
--
... The trouble with apathy these days is nobody cares.

Regards,
[dmz]

Owner and proprietor, Trollus Amongus, LLC

High Plains Thumper

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Jan 21, 2009, 8:43:33 AM1/21/09
to

Same here. Just more FUD from Tim. Nothing to see, move along ....

--
HPT
Quando omni flunkus moritati
(If all else fails, play dead)
- "Red" Green

Tim Smith

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Jan 21, 2009, 8:52:00 AM1/21/09
to
In article <49772686$0$3337$6e1e...@read.cnntp.org>,

High Plains Thumper <highplai...@invalid.invalid> wrote:
> >
> > Strangely enough I was able to watch the streaming video on my
> > Linux machine without mono or moonlight.
>
> Same here. Just more FUD from Tim. Nothing to see, move along ....

You *agree* with me, and then say it is FUD!? I specifically mentioned
it was available on dozens of sites and in many formats, so Linux users
didn't need to use Mono or Moonlight.


--
--Tim Smith

DFS

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Jan 21, 2009, 8:58:22 AM1/21/09
to
High Plains Thumper wrote:
> RonB wrote:
>> Chris Ahlstrom wrote:
>>
>>>> Roy said this would never happen. Microsoft would never
>>>> let Moonlight advance to handle the current version of
>>>> Silverlight. Well, not only did they "allow" it, they
>>>> provided help late into the night to help the
>>>> Mono/Moonlight developers test.
>>> How very comforting.
>>
>> Strangely enough I was able to watch the streaming video on my
>> Linux machine without mono or moonlight.
>
> Same here. Just more FUD from Tim. Nothing to see, move along ....


What FUD?

Tim made Spamowitz look like an uninformed zealous fool. Again.


chrisv

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Jan 21, 2009, 9:22:51 AM1/21/09
to
>cc wrote:
>>
>> Everyone hangs on everyone's word in here.

Really? I wonder how I could be "hanging on" the words of the two
dozen idiots who occupy my bozo bin?

Rex Ballard

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Jan 21, 2009, 9:38:46 AM1/21/09
to
On Jan 20, 9:21 pm, Tim Smith <reply_in_gr...@mouse-potato.com> wrote:
> Moonlight and Mono enable Linux users (and Mac PPC users) to watch
> streaming Obama inauguration:
> <http://tirania.org/blog/archive/2009/Jan-20.html>

> Roy said this would never happen. Microsoft would never let Moonlight
> advance to handle the current version of Silverlight. Well, not only
> did they "allow" it, they provided help late into the night to help the
> Mono/Moonlight developers test.

And it still wasn't enough. I tried to install Moonlight on a RHEL5
Desktop system before the inauguration and it wouldn't install.
Microsoft's token efforts to give Mono legitimacy and avoid more
claims of monopoly building, backfired.

> Not that any Linux user actually needed this to watch the inauguration.
> Dozens of sites streamed it, in many different formats. Roy made it
> sound like the Silverlight-based site was the *only* online way to
> watch.

MSNBC - Micrcosoft's partner with NBC, announced a really nifty new
feature that was going to create a 3D image of the inauguration using
all of the cell phone pictures sent to MSNBC during the event.
Microsoft was providing the software - and you found out when you
tried to look at the picture, that you needed Silverlight to view the
nifty new picture. Of course, it didn't work on FireFox on Windows
either, and I didn't bother firing up IE, because - as you point out,
there were lots of "Traditional" feeds. In addition, CNN did a
similar composite using a Linux/Solaris based solution, which worked
pretty well on Linux.

I've been enjoying MSNBC, especially Keith Oberman and Rachel Maddow,
for their light-hearted and often comical treatment of the news. I'm
sure it won't be long before they turn their guns on Obama. It seems
like MSNBC has found a "formula" of just tearing apart the current
administration, regardless of who it is. Chris Mathews is already
ripping into the Obama administration for Geitner. The irony is that
he was one of those recommended by the Republicans as well as the
Democrats.

Does this mean that Fox, the great defender of the status quo, will
suddenly become Liberal?

the MSNBC web site did have a "live" feed of the inauguration, but the
delay was substantial, and during the actual swearing in, the server
disconnected me. I wonder how many other people lost the feed at the
critical moment. Par for the course for Microsoft.

Fortunately, my DVR (*nix powered) recorded the critical moment, as
well as the Fox channel. I also watched the CNN feed via Internet.

> --Tim Smith

Peter Köhlmann

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Jan 21, 2009, 9:49:52 AM1/21/09
to
chrisv wrote:

Strange that I can't see Snot Glassers idiocy. Or that from "cc", for that
matter.
Both are killfiled, and only quoting will elevate their drivel to make it
to my screen
--
Anyone can make an omelet with eggs. The trick is to make one with
none.


Hadron

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Jan 21, 2009, 9:57:28 AM1/21/09
to
Rex Ballard <rex.b...@gmail.com> writes:

> On Jan 20, 9:21 pm, Tim Smith <reply_in_gr...@mouse-potato.com> wrote:
>> Moonlight and Mono enable Linux users (and Mac PPC users) to watch
>> streaming Obama inauguration:
>> <http://tirania.org/blog/archive/2009/Jan-20.html>
>
>> Roy said this would never happen. Microsoft would never let Moonlight
>> advance to handle the current version of Silverlight. Well, not only
>> did they "allow" it, they provided help late into the night to help the
>> Mono/Moonlight developers test.
>
> And it still wasn't enough. I tried to install Moonlight on a RHEL5
> Desktop system before the inauguration and it wouldn't install.
> Microsoft's token efforts to give Mono legitimacy and avoid more
> claims of monopoly building, backfired.

You are blaming MS for a Linux clone not installing on Red Hat?

Roy Schestowitz

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Jan 21, 2009, 10:01:48 AM1/21/09
to
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

____/ High Plains Thumper on Wednesday 21 January 2009 13:43 : \____

>
>
> RonB wrote:
>> Chris Ahlstrom wrote:
>>
>>>> Roy said this would never happen. Microsoft would never
>>>> let Moonlight advance to handle the current version of
>>>> Silverlight.

True. It's still true. Moonlight is "lead pony".

>>>> Well, not only did they "allow" it, they
>>>> provided help late into the night to help the
>>>> Mono/Moonlight developers test.

The generous Microsoft!!!

http://www.linuxtoday.com/news_story.php3?ltsn=2009-01-20-015-35-NW-SW-0009


" Microsoft will love you if you do.

However, before you do you should understand Microsoft’s thinking about
this topic. Jame Plamondon, although the first head of dirty tricks at
Microsoft he has done a mea culpa, wrote a training manual for his troops
entitled “Effective Evangelism”.

http://platformevangelism.spaces.live.com/blog/cns !37F174267DC274C!152.entry

Under the paragraph entitled “Evangelism is War” he wrote:


Every line of code that is written to our standards is a small victory;
every line of code that is written to any other standard, is a small defeat.
Total victory … is the universal adoption of our standards by developers, as
this is an important step towards total victory for Microsoft itself: “A
computer on every desk and in every home, running Microsoft software.”

MONO and Moonlight are BIG victories for Microsoft, because it keeps some
developers and distros dancing to Microsoft’s tune. In the future, after
enough applications and distros have Microsoft technology buried too deep into
their work to be easily removed without starting over, they should not be
surprised when (not if) Microsoft pulls their plug by extending (sound
familiar?) those two technologies with patented and proprietary components
that leave them setting on a desert island unless they give up their FOSS
freedom completely and move onto the Microsoft plantation. THAT would be
the “total victory” that Microsoft strives for.

Fortunately, no current distro that I am familiar with depends on MONO for
its essential activities. You can check you installation by using the “locate”
command from a root console to search for “libmono”. If you find files with
those characters in their names use Synaptic (or what ever) to select those
libraries and remove them. Then reboot. If you distro doesn’t come back up
then your distro is hooked. IF it does come back up then check for “Beagle”
and other apps which use MONO and see if they still work. IF they do then
you’ve missed some mono libraries. If they don’t then remove them as well.

DON’T GIVE MICROSOFT ITS VICTORY!

GreyGeek"

>>> How very comforting.
>>
>> Strangely enough I was able to watch the streaming video on my
>> Linux machine without mono or moonlight.
>
> Same here. Just more FUD from Tim. Nothing to see, move along ....

Tim's stalking is bordering the disease and the miserable.


- --
~~ Best of wishes

Roy S. Schestowitz | Every beginning must start somewhere
http://Schestowitz.com | Open Prospects | PGP-Key: 0x74572E8E
Tasks: 140 total, 1 running, 139 sleeping, 0 stopped, 0 zombie
http://iuron.com - knowledge engine, not a search engine
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chrisv

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Jan 21, 2009, 10:22:34 AM1/21/09
to
Tim Smith wrote:

>You *agree* with me, and then say it is FUD!? I specifically mentioned
>it was available on dozens of sites and in many formats, so Linux users
>didn't need to use Mono or Moonlight.

A fart that smells like roses is still a fart. 8)

Peter Köhlmann

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Jan 21, 2009, 10:40:09 AM1/21/09
to
Hadron wrote:

And he is right. Moonlight is problematic to install on anything besides
SuSE/Novell. On those install is dead easy
--
Don't steal. Microsoft hates competition.


Tim Smith

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Jan 21, 2009, 3:06:22 PM1/21/09
to
In article <1490881.D...@schestowitz.com>,
Roy Schestowitz <newsg...@schestowitz.com> wrote:
>
> http://www.linuxtoday.com/news_story.php3?ltsn=2009-01-20-015-35-NW-SW-0009

He's very confused. He doesn't seem to know the difference between
specifications and implementations, and between closed source and
open source.

...

> Tim's stalking is bordering the disease and the miserable.

You still haven't explained how it is "stalking" to occasionally read
your website, and occasionally point out the errors you make there.

--
--Tim Smith

Rex Ballard

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Jan 21, 2009, 3:17:24 PM1/21/09
to
On Jan 21, 9:57 am, Hadron <hadronqu...@gmail.com> wrote:

Tim claims that Microsoft did everything they needed to do to support
Mono/Moonlight and make sure that it was ready for a major event that
was supposed to be a major demonstration of Microsoft's newest toy.

I pointed out that whatever Microsoft contributed, it wasn't enough.

Doug Mentohl

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Jan 21, 2009, 3:26:15 PM1/21/09
to
Tim Smith wrote:

> He's very confused. He doesn't seem to know the difference between specifications and implementations, and between closed source and open source.

"When a developer contributes code to the C# compiler or the Mono
runtime engine, we require that the author grants Novell the right to
relicense his/her contribution under other licensing terms"

http://www.mono-project.com/FAQ:_Licensing

Peter Köhlmann

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Jan 21, 2009, 3:53:34 PM1/21/09
to
Rex Ballard wrote:

It was enough. Moonlight was ready for download for SuSE/Novell
--
Eternity is a very long time, especially towards the end


Miguel de Icaza

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Jan 21, 2009, 4:46:09 PM1/21/09
to
Hello,

> And he is right.Moonlight is problematic to install on anything besidesSuSE/Novell. On those install is dead easy

I suspect you did not even try to install it, did you?

Moonlight is installed as Firefox plugin and we test this on all sorts
of Unix systems (Debian, Ubuntu, Fedora and SUSE) and it works like
this:

1. Click on download from www.go-mono.com/download (we auto-detect
your platform, so you do not need to do anything).
2. Click "Install" when you are prompted for install or cancel
3. Restart the browser.

The experience is *identical* for all the systems.

Miguel.

Peter Köhlmann

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Jan 21, 2009, 5:12:44 PM1/21/09
to
Miguel de Icaza wrote:

> Hello,
>
>> And he is right.Moonlight is problematic to install on anything
>> besidesSuSE/Novell. On those install is dead easy
>
> I suspect you did not even try to install it, did you?

I have installed it. Runs fine so far

> Moonlight is installed as Firefox plugin and we test this on all sorts
> of Unix systems (Debian, Ubuntu, Fedora and SUSE) and it works like
> this:
>
> 1. Click on download from www.go-mono.com/download (we auto-detect
> your platform, so you do not need to do anything).
> 2. Click "Install" when you are prompted for install or cancel
> 3. Restart the browser.
>
> The experience is *identical* for all the systems.
>
> Miguel.

Right. For *Moonlight* it is.
Now tell us all about the many default installations for Mono, needed to
run it. SuSE/Novell offer it by default. Most others don't
--
Microsoft software doesn't get released - it escapes, leaving
a trail of destruction behind it.


Sermo Malifer

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Jan 21, 2009, 5:15:22 PM1/21/09
to
Doug Mentohl wrote:
> Tim Smith wrote:
>
>> He's very confused. He doesn't seem to know the difference between
>> specifications and implementations, and between closed source and open
>> source.

" Why does Novell require a copyright assignment?"

> "When a developer contributes code to the C# compiler or the Mono
> runtime engine, we require that the author grants Novell the right to
> relicense his/her contribution under other licensing terms"

"This allows Novell to re-distribute the Mono source code to parties
that might not want to use the GPL or LGPL versions of the code."

"Particularly embedded system vendors obtain grants to the Mono runtime
engine and modify it for their own purposes without having to release
those changes back. "

> http://www.mono-project.com/FAQ:_Licensing

" What license or licenses are you using for the Mono Project?

We use three open source licenses:

* The C# compiler is dual-licensed under the MIT/X11 license and
the GNU General Public License
(http://www.opensource.org/licenses/gpl-license.html) (GPL).

* The tools are released under the terms of the GNU General Public
License (http://www.opensource.org/licenses/gpl-license.html) (GPL).

* The runtime libraries are under the GNU Library GPL 2.0
(http://www.gnu.org/copyleft/library.html#TOC1) (LGPL 2.0).

* The class libraries are released under the terms of the MIT X11
(http://www.opensource.org/licenses/mit-license.html) license.

Both the Mono runtime and the Mono C# Compiler are also available under
a proprietary license for those who can not use the LGPL and the GPL in
their code. "

Roy Schestowitz

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Jan 21, 2009, 5:44:47 PM1/21/09
to
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

____/ Miguel de Icaza on Wednesday 21 January 2009 21:46 : \____

Where does one acquire a licence to use it? From Novell?

You know, even Dan O'Brian acknowledges that it may be a patent problem.

You can't fool people forever.

- --
~~ Best of wishes

http://Schestowitz.com | Open Prospects | PGP-Key: 0x74572E8E


Tasks: 140 total, 1 running, 139 sleeping, 0 stopped, 0 zombie
http://iuron.com - knowledge engine, not a search engine
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Terry Porter

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Jan 21, 2009, 6:45:46 PM1/21/09
to
Miguel de Icaza wrote:

> Hello,
>
>> And he is right.Moonlight is problematic to install on anything
>> besidesSuSE/Novell. On those install is dead easy
>
> I suspect you did not even try to install it, did you?
>
> Moonlight is installed as Firefox plugin and we test this on all sorts
> of Unix systems (Debian, Ubuntu, Fedora and SUSE) and it works like
> this:
>
> 1. Click on download from www.go-mono.com/download (we auto-detect

Not Found

The requested URL /download was not found on this server.
Apache/2 Server at www.go-mono.com Port 80


> your platform, so you do not need to do anything).
> 2. Click "Install" when you are prompted for install or cancel
> 3. Restart the browser.
>
> The experience is *identical* for all the systems.
>
> Miguel.

And not available for Gentoo via the released packages.

gronk1 mnt # emerge -s moonlight
Searching...
[ Results for search key : moonlight ]
[ Applications found : 0 ]

--
If we wish to reduce our ignorance, there are people we will
indeed listen to. Trolls are not among those people, as trolls, more or
less by definition, *promote* ignorance.
Kelsey Bjarnason, C.O.L.A. 2008

Roy Schestowitz

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Jan 21, 2009, 7:47:19 PM1/21/09
to
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

____/ Terry Porter on Wednesday 21 January 2009 23:45 : \____

>
>
> Miguel de Icaza wrote:
>
>> Hello,
>>
>>> And he is right.Moonlight is problematic to install on anything
>>> besidesSuSE/Novell. On those install is dead easy
>>
>> I suspect you did not even try to install it, did you?
>>
>> Moonlight is installed as Firefox plugin and we test this on all sorts
>> of Unix systems (Debian, Ubuntu, Fedora and SUSE) and it works like
>> this:
>>
>> 1. Click on download from www.go-mono.com/download (we auto-detect
> Not Found
>
> The requested URL /download was not found on this server.
> Apache/2 Server at www.go-mono.com Port 80
>
>
>> your platform, so you do not need to do anything).
>> 2. Click "Install" when you are prompted for install or cancel
>> 3. Restart the browser.
>>
>> The experience is *identical* for all the systems.
>>
>> Miguel.
>
> And not available for Gentoo via the released packages.
>
> gronk1 mnt # emerge -s moonlight
> Searching...
> [ Results for search key : moonlight ]
> [ Applications found : 0 ]

That's a good thing. Well done, Gentoo.

- --
~~ Best of wishes

Roy S. Schestowitz | Community is code, code is community
http://Schestowitz.com | RHAT GNU/Linux | PGP-Key: 0x74572E8E
run-level 5 Jan 15 09:01 last=S
http://iuron.com - help build a non-profit search engine


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Sinister Midget

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Jan 21, 2009, 8:10:26 PM1/21/09
to
On 2009-01-21, Terry Porter <lin...@netspace.net.au> claimed:
> Miguel de Icaza wrote:

>> I suspect you did not even try to install it, did you?
>>
>> Moonlight is installed as Firefox plugin and we test this on all sorts
>> of Unix systems (Debian, Ubuntu, Fedora and SUSE) and it works like
>> this:
>>
>> 1. Click on download from www.go-mono.com/download (we auto-detect
> Not Found
>
> The requested URL /download was not found on this server.
> Apache/2 Server at www.go-mono.com Port 80

You weren't supposed to *try* it!

But I _did_ find the download link. Despite my using a version of
Ubuntu right now, it doesn't know what I have. But I can go to the
"unsupported downloads" section, where I'm told how to pollute my
sources.list with mono (which also happens to be the nickname for a
disease; coincidence?) if they aren't already polluted.

Which reminds me. Time to change distros again:

http://www.mono-project.com/Other_Downloads

Ubuntu
Official Packages

Mono is available in all Ubuntu releases, and installed by default.
To develop software with Mono, install the mono-devel package on
Dapper (6.06), Gutsy (7.10) or Jaunty (9.04), by pasting the line
below into your browser address bar (or using synaptic):

I don't think so. I choose to remain Microslop-free.

>> your platform, so you do not need to do anything).
>> 2. Click "Install" when you are prompted for install or cancel
>> 3. Restart the browser.
>>
>> The experience is *identical* for all the systems.

> And not available for Gentoo via the released packages.


>
> gronk1 mnt # emerge -s moonlight
> Searching...
> [ Results for search key : moonlight ]
> [ Applications found : 0 ]

Why would you want it anyway? It's not like there aren't other, safer
methods to view content.

--
If Bill Gates had a penny for every time a Windows box
crashed....Oh, wait a minute, he already does.

Roy Schestowitz

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Jan 21, 2009, 10:16:44 PM1/21/09
to
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
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____/ Sinister Midget on Thursday 22 January 2009 01:10 : \____

http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=bKIQ7Y61nIY

- --
~~ Best of wishes

Roy S. Schestowitz | $> apt-get -not windows
http://Schestowitz.com | Free as in Free Beer | PGP-Key: 0x74572E8E
Cpu(s): 22.6%us, 5.0%sy, 0.1%ni, 70.6%id, 1.3%wa, 0.0%hi, 0.4%si, 0.0%st
http://iuron.com - semantic engine to gather information


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Terry Porter

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Jan 21, 2009, 10:28:15 PM1/21/09
to
Sinister Midget wrote:

> On 2009-01-21, Terry Porter <lin...@netspace.net.au> claimed:
>> Miguel de Icaza wrote:
>
>>> I suspect you did not even try to install it, did you?
>>>
>>> Moonlight is installed as Firefox plugin and we test this on all sorts
>>> of Unix systems (Debian, Ubuntu, Fedora and SUSE) and it works like
>>> this:
>>>
>>> 1. Click on download from www.go-mono.com/download (we auto-detect
>> Not Found
>>
>> The requested URL /download was not found on this server.
>> Apache/2 Server at www.go-mono.com Port 80
>
> You weren't supposed to *try* it!

Always pays to check for validity :)

>
> But I _did_ find the download link. Despite my using a version of
> Ubuntu right now, it doesn't know what I have. But I can go to the
> "unsupported downloads" section, where I'm told how to pollute my
> sources.list with mono (which also happens to be the nickname for a
> disease; coincidence?) if they aren't already polluted.
>
> Which reminds me. Time to change distros again:
>
> http://www.mono-project.com/Other_Downloads
>
> Ubuntu
> Official Packages
>
> Mono is available in all Ubuntu releases, and installed by default.
> To develop software with Mono, install the mono-devel package on
> Dapper (6.06), Gutsy (7.10) or Jaunty (9.04), by pasting the line
> below into your browser address bar (or using synaptic):
>
> I don't think so. I choose to remain Microslop-free.

Ditto.

>
>>> your platform, so you do not need to do anything).
>>> 2. Click "Install" when you are prompted for install or cancel
>>> 3. Restart the browser.
>>>
>>> The experience is *identical* for all the systems.
>
>> And not available for Gentoo via the released packages.
>>
>> gronk1 mnt # emerge -s moonlight
>> Searching...
>> [ Results for search key : moonlight ]
>> [ Applications found : 0 ]
>
> Why would you want it anyway?

I *don't*. I was only checking to see if it was available for Gentoo, but it
isn't.

If it was, I would have installed it to see if it installed easily as
claimed, then uninstalled it.

> It's not like there aren't other, safer
> methods to view content.

Absolutely, besides I don't trust Novel post their Microsoft deal.

George Barca

unread,
Jan 21, 2009, 10:45:08 PM1/21/09
to

Putting a / at the end of the link made it work for me, however
it was extremely confusing at that point so IMHO it's not a
simple download at all.
George Barca
georgeb...@geeeeemale.com

Miguel de Icaza

unread,
Jan 21, 2009, 11:40:21 PM1/21/09
to
> >> And he is right.Moonlight is problematicto install on anything

> >> besidesSuSE/Novell. On those install is dead easy

[...]

> Right. For *Moonlight* it is.

So we agree then: Moonlight is easy to install.

Your original post said that it was not, I accept your apology.

> Now tell us all about the many default installations for Mono, needed to
> run it. SuSE/Novell offer it by default. Most others don't

Moonlight 1.0 does not use Mono.

Moonlight 2.0 will bundle a subset of Mono, does not require a
previous install to work.

I am glad that I was able to provide some free education for you
today, you know, learn one new thing every day.

Miguel de Icaza

unread,
Jan 21, 2009, 11:42:24 PM1/21/09
to
> Where does one acquire a licence to use it? From Novell?

Correct. When you get Moonlight, you get it under the terms of the
GNU LGPL + MIT X11 license.

Btw, it is spelled "license", not "licence".

Miguel

Miguel de Icaza

unread,
Jan 21, 2009, 11:45:17 PM1/21/09
to
On Jan 21, 6:45 pm, Terry Porter <linu...@netspace.net.au> wrote:
> Miguel de Icaza wrote:
> > Hello,
>
> >> And he is right.Moonlightisproblematicto install on anything

> >> besidesSuSE/Novell. On those install is dead easy
>
> > I suspect you did not even try to install it, did you?
>
> >Moonlightis installed as Firefox plugin and we test this on all sorts

> > of Unix systems (Debian, Ubuntu, Fedora and SUSE) and it works like
> > this:
>
> > 1. Click on download fromwww.go-mono.com/download(we auto-detect

Ah, sorry about that.

I typed that from memory, the real url is www.go-mono.com/moonlight

Or the first google match for "Moonlight" or "Silverlight Linux"

Roy Schestowitz

unread,
Jan 22, 2009, 5:29:09 AM1/22/09
to
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

____/ Miguel de Icaza on Thursday 22 January 2009 04:40 : \____

You're not Linus, Miguel <
http://apcmag.com/linus_torvalds_on_regression_laziness_and_having_his_code_rejected.htm
>. You could learn from Obama about humility. ;-)


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Version: GnuPG v1.4.9 (GNU/Linux)

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jwCcC0xaLZw5floAJWC5EsfXE0KKxJ8=
=XNTn
-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----

Roy Schestowitz

unread,
Jan 22, 2009, 5:27:07 AM1/22/09
to
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

____/ Miguel de Icaza on Thursday 22 January 2009 04:42 : \____

Only in America.

- --
~~ Best of wishes

Roy S. Schestowitz | Apache: commercial software's days are numbered
http://Schestowitz.com | GNU/Linux | PGP-Key: 0x74572E8E
Mem: 2075800k total, 1660792k used, 415008k free, 12460k buffers
http://iuron.com - next generation of search paradigms


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qIIAn1NZJ/sRMb7p2dfRs8qOMgF5+7ql
=Kmw/
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cc

unread,
Jan 22, 2009, 7:09:17 AM1/22/09
to
On Jan 21, 8:13 am, Keyboard Warrior <sitt...@this.computer> wrote:
> cc wrote:
> > Everyone hangs on everyone's word in here.
>
> No one hangs on yours. Fuck off.


Well you certainly seem to.

cc

unread,
Jan 22, 2009, 7:10:34 AM1/22/09
to
On Jan 21, 9:22 am, chrisv <chr...@nospam.invalid> wrote:
> >cc wrote:
>
> >> Everyone hangs on everyone's word in here.
>
> Really?  I wonder how I could be "hanging on" the words of the two
> dozen idiots who occupy my bozo bin?

It was some hyperbole. No one hangs on your words because you're a
fucking inbred retard.

*PLONK*

cc

unread,
Jan 22, 2009, 7:11:59 AM1/22/09
to
On Jan 21, 9:49 am, Peter Köhlmann <peter.koehlm...@arcor.de> wrote:

> chrisv wrote:
> >>cc wrote:
>
> >>> Everyone hangs on everyone's word in here.
>
> > Really?  I wonder how I could be "hanging on" the words of the two
> > dozen idiots who occupy my bozo bin?
>
> Strange that I can't see Snot Glassers idiocy. Or that from "cc", for that
> matter.
> Both are killfiled, and only quoting will elevate their drivel to make it
> to my screen

Thanks for letting everyone know! We have never heard that from you or
William Poaster before!

Chris Ahlstrom

unread,
Jan 22, 2009, 7:28:17 AM1/22/09
to
After takin' a swig o' grog, Roy Schestowitz belched out
this bit o' wisdom:

>> Why would you want it anyway? It's not like there aren't other, safer
>> methods to view content.
>
> http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=bKIQ7Y61nIY

Hail to the Chief!

--
Woke up this morning, don't believe what I saw.
Hundred billion bottles washed up on the shore.
Seems I'm not alone in being alone.
Hundred billion castaways looking for a call.
-- The Police, "Message in a Bottle"

ml2mst

unread,
Jan 22, 2009, 7:51:22 PM1/22/09
to
Miguel de Icaza wrote:

> S

*plonk*

--
|_|0|_| Marti T. van Lin
|_|_|0| http://ml2mst.googlepages.com
|0|0|0| http://osgeex.blogspot.com

Roy Schestowitz

unread,
Jan 22, 2009, 7:54:00 PM1/22/09
to
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

____/ Chris Ahlstrom on Thursday 22 January 2009 12:28 : \____

>
>
> After takin' a swig o' grog, Roy Schestowitz belched out
> this bit o' wisdom:
>
>>> Why would you want it anyway? It's not like there aren't other, safer
>>> methods to view content.
>>
>> http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=bKIQ7Y61nIY
>
> Hail to the Chief!

I'm not sure he wrote the speech. He has PR manager/s.

- --
~~ Best of wishes

Roy S. Schestowitz | Download Reversi: http://othellomaster.com
http://Schestowitz.com | GNU is Not UNIX | PGP-Key: 0x74572E8E
http://iuron.com - proposing a non-profit search engine


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=+yoq
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Tim Smith

unread,
Jan 22, 2009, 9:02:40 PM1/22/09
to
In article <glb4af$pu6$1...@news.albasani.net>,
ml2mst <ml2mst...@CAPSgmail.com> wrote:

> Miguel de Icaza wrote:
>
> > S
>
> *plonk*

Well, at least now we know why you are such an idiot when it comes to
technology.

--
--Tim Smith

Homer

unread,
Jan 22, 2009, 11:47:22 PM1/22/09
to
Verily I say unto thee, that Miguel de Icaza spake thusly:

> I typed that from memory, the real url is www.go-mono.com/moonlight
>
> Or the first google match for "Moonlight"

Actually, it's at position six, after three entries for Moonlight the TV
series, and two YouTube videos (LeAnn Rimes - Can't Fight The Moonlight,
and Moonlight - Alex O'Loughlin).

> "Silverlight Linux"

The first entry is "Silverlight on Linux Already - Jesse Ezell Blog",
followed by several more pages of blogs, news sites, social networking
sites, and various Microsoft sites, including Port25. Your own blog is
listed at position 59. After ten pages, I gave up looking for any site
with either "novell" or "mono" in the domain.

However, I did follow your corrected link, installed the 64-bit version
of the Moonlight plugin for Firefox, and tested it on the following
listed test site:

http://www.mason-zimbler.com/festivegreetings/

I was subsequently greeted by a dialogue box entitled "Moonlight Codecs
Installer":

[quote]
Would you like to install the required add-on to play the content of
this page?

This page requires the Microsoft Media Pack to be installed to play
multimedia content.

If you choose, the software will be automatically downloaded and
installed from Microsoft's web site.

[] Do not ask me to install this add-on again

[Cancel] [Install Codecs]
[quote]

Clicking on "Install Codecs" results in this the following message being
displayed:

[quote]
End User License Agreement

Before the required software can be installed, you must first agree to
the End User License Agreement below.


MICROSOFT PRE-RELEASE SOFTWARE LICENSE TERMS

MICROSOFT MEDIA PACK 1.0

ONLY FOR USE WITH NOVELL'S MOONLIGHT 1.0 RUNNING IN AN INTERNET BROWSER

These license terms are an agreement between Microsoft Corporation (or
based on where you live, one of its affiliates) and you. Please read
them. They apply to the software named above, which includes the media
on which you received it, if any. The terms also apply to any Microsoft

- Updates (including but not limited to bug fixes, patches,
updates, upgrades, enhancements, new versions, and successors
to the software, collectively called "Updates"),
- supplements,
- Internet-based services, and
- support services

for this software, unless other terms accompany those items. If so,
those terms apply.

By using the software, you accept these terms. If you do not accept
them, do not use the software.

If you comply with these license terms, you have the rights below.

1. INSTALLATION AND USE RIGHTS. You may install and use any number of
copies of the software only with the software identified above running
in an Internet browser on a personal computer.

2. TERM. The term of this agreement is until the commercial release of
Novell’s Moonlight 1.0 but in no event later than June 1, 2009.

3. PRE-RELEASE SOFTWARE. This software is a pre-release version. It
may not work the way a final version of the software will. We may
change it for the final, commercial version. We also may not release a
commercial version.

4. FEEDBACK. If you give feedback about the software to Microsoft, you
give to Microsoft, without charge, the right to use, share and
commercialize your feedback in any way and for any purpose. You also
give to third parties, without charge, any patent rights needed for
their products, technologies and services to use or interface with any
specific parts of a Microsoft software or service that includes the
feedback. You will not give feedback that is subject to a license that
requires Microsoft to license its software or documentation to third
parties because we include your feedback in them. These rights survive
this agreement.

5. SCOPE OF LICENSE. The software is licensed, not sold. This agreement
only gives you some rights to use the software. Microsoft reserves all
other rights. Unless applicable law gives you more rights despite this
limitation, you may use the software only as expressly permitted in this
agreement. In doing so, you must comply with any technical limitations
in the software that only allow you to use it in certain ways. You
also may not
- work around any technical limitations in the software;
- reverse engineer, decompile or disassemble the software,
except and only to the extent that applicable law expressly
permits, despite this limitation;
- publish the software for others to copy;
- rent, lease or lend the software; or
- transfer the software or this agreement to any third party.

6. NOTICE ABOUT VC-1 VISUAL STANDARDS. This software may include VC-1
visual decoding technology. MPEG LA, L.L.C. requires this notice:

THIS PRODUCT IS LICENSED UNDER THE VC-1 PATENT PORTFOLIO LICENSES FOR
THE PERSONAL AND NON-COMMERCIAL USE OF A CONSUMER TO (A) ENCODE VIDEO IN
COMPLIANCE WITH THE VC-1 STANDARD ("VC-1 VIDEO") OR (B) DECODE VC-1
VIDEO THAT WAS ENCODED BY A CONSUMER ENGAGED IN A PERSONAL AND
NON-COMMERCIAL ACTIVITY AND/OR WAS OBTAINED FROM A VIDEO PROVIDER
LICENSED TO PROVIDE VC-1 VIDEO. NO LICENSE IS GRANTED OR SHALL BE
IMPLIED FOR ANY OTHER USE.

If you have questions about the VC-1 visual standard, please contact
MPEG LA, L.L.C., 250 Steele Street, Suite 300, Denver Colorado 80206;
http://www.mpegla.com

7. EXPORT RESTRICTIONS. The software is subject to United States export
laws and regulations. You must comply with all domestic and
international export laws and regulations that apply to the software.
These laws include restrictions on destinations, end users and end use.
For additional information, see www.microsoft.com/exporting

8. SUPPORT SERVICES. Because this software is "as is," we may not
provide support services for it.

9. ENTIRE AGREEMENT. This agreement, and the terms for supplements,
Updates, Internet-based services and support services that you use, are
the entire agreement for the software and support services.

10. APPLICABLE LAW.

a. United States. If you acquired the software in the United States,
Washington state law governs the interpretation of this agreement and
applies to claims for breach of it, regardless of conflict of laws
principles. The laws of the state where you live govern all other
claims, including claims under state consumer protection laws, unfair
competition laws, and in tort.

b. Outside the United States. If you acquired the software in any
other country, the laws of that country apply.

11. LEGAL EFFECT. This agreement describes certain legal rights. You
may have other rights under the laws of your country. You may also have
rights with respect to the party from whom you acquired the software.
This agreement does not change your rights under the laws of your
country if the laws of your country do not permit it to do so.

12. DISCLAIMER OF WARRANTY. The software is licensed "as-is." You
bear the risk of using it. Microsoft gives no express warranties,
guarantees or conditions. You may have additional consumer rights under
your local laws which this agreement cannot change. To the extent
permitted under your local laws, Microsoft excludes the implied
warranties of merchantability, fitness for a particular purpose and
non-infringement.

13. LIMITATION ON AND EXCLUSION OF REMEDIES AND DAMAGES. You can
recover from Microsoft and its suppliers only direct damages up to U.S.
$5.00. You cannot recover any other damages, including consequential,
lost profits, special, indirect or incidental damages.

This limitation applies to

- anything related to the software, services, content (including
code) on third party Internet sites, or third party programs;
and
- claims for breach of contract, breach of warranty, guarantee
or condition, strict liability, negligence, or other tort to
the extent permitted by applicable law.

It also applies even if Microsoft knew or should have known about the
possibility of the damages. The above limitation or exclusion may not
apply to you because your country may not allow the exclusion or
limitation of incidental, consequential or other damages.
[quote]


I don't agree with this EULA, therefore I can't install this software.


To resolve this problem, I downloaded the sources for Moonlight:

svn co svn://anonsvn.mono-project.com/source/trunk/moon

The license for this software is as follows (from moon/LICENSE):

[quote]

* Moonlight source code (src/, plugin/)

Unless explicitly stated, this code is licensed under the
terms of the GNU LGPL 2 license only (no "later versions").
[/quote]

Why isn't Moonlight licensed under GPLv3?


[quote]
In addition to the GNU LGPL, this code is available for
relicensing for non-LGPL use, contact Novell for details
(mo...@novell.com).

We consider non-LGPL use instances where you use this on an
embedded system where the end user is not able to upgrade the
Moonlight installation or distribution that is part of your
product (Section 6 and 7), you would have to obtain a
commercial license from Novell (consider software burned into
a ROM, systems where end users would not be able to upgrade,
an embedded console, a game console that imposes limitations
on the distribution and access to the code, a phone platform
that prevents end users from upgrading Moonlight).
[/quote]

This seems to preclude distributing Moonlight on a LiveCD or other
immutable medium, which seems like a rather odd restriction. Perhaps you
could explain.


I then tried to build Moonlight by following the instructions given in
the link you provided:

[quote]
Download and install the moon tarball or moon SVN module from SVN:

* configure like this: ./configure
* Build and install, run: make && make install
* To install the plugin in your home: make test-plugin
[/quote]

moon]$ ./configure
bash: ./configure: No such file or directory

I notice you now use an autogen script, so I assume the above
information is now out of date. Perhaps you could update that page to
reflect this change.

After manually resolving difficulties with missing build dependencies
(expat-devel, firefox-devel), I then proceeded with the build, but
encountered this error:

"application.cpp:18:37: mono/metadata/appdomain.h: No such file or
directory"

And the build failed.

So I installed the following to meet this missing dependency (including
sub-dependants):

mono-core, mono-devel, mono-data, mono-winforms, mono-web

And tried again, but encountered yet another error:

checking for MONO... configure: error: Package requirements (mono >=
2.2) were not met:

Requested 'mono >= 2.2' but version of Mono is 1.2.5.1

After checking "./configure --help" for clues, I discovered that I
needed to disable managed code to remove this dependency, so I tried
again with the "--with-managed=no" flag set, but I still received
exactly the same error.

application.cpp:18:37: error: mono/metadata/appdomain.h: No such file or
directory

Even though this file does exist:

/usr/include/mono-1.0/mono/metadata/appdomain.h

At this point, I'm basically stuck.


So the question is, how do I, or anyone else who wishes to only use Free
Software, view the contents of that Web page?

Also, when can I expect to see a prebuilt package of Moonlight, built
against Free Software codecs rather than Microsoft's proprietary
software, in my distro's repo?

TIA.

--
K.
http://slated.org

.----
| "Necessity is the plea for every infringement of human freedom. It
| is the argument of tyrants; it is the creed of slaves." ~ William
| Pitt the Younger
`----

Fedora release 8 (Werewolf) on sky, running kernel 2.6.25.11-60.fc8
04:47:10 up 78 days, 12:30, 5 users, load average: 0.02, 0.02, 0.00

Chris Ahlstrom

unread,
Jan 23, 2009, 5:38:40 AM1/23/09
to
After takin' a swig o' grog, Homer belched out
this bit o' wisdom:

> Verily I say unto thee, that Miguel de Icaza spake thusly:


>
>> I typed that from memory, the real url is www.go-mono.com/moonlight
>>
>> Or the first google match for "Moonlight"
>

> However, I did follow your corrected link, installed the 64-bit version
> of the Moonlight plugin for Firefox, and tested it on the following
> listed test site:
>
> http://www.mason-zimbler.com/festivegreetings/
>
> I was subsequently greeted by a dialogue box entitled "Moonlight Codecs
> Installer":
>
> [quote]
> Would you like to install the required add-on to play the content of
> this page?
>

> <le waste de snippage>


>
> At this point, I'm basically stuck.
>
> So the question is, how do I, or anyone else who wishes to only use Free
> Software, view the contents of that Web page?
>
> Also, when can I expect to see a prebuilt package of Moonlight, built
> against Free Software codecs rather than Microsoft's proprietary
> software, in my distro's repo?

I'll check back for a response later.

Thanks, Homer.

--
Who messed with my anti-paranoia shot?

chrisv

unread,
Jan 23, 2009, 8:51:57 AM1/23/09
to
Homer wrote:

> (snip excellent post)

I predict "Miguel" slinking quietly from this thread. 8)

--
'And its KDE - nothing there for the Gnome purist. "Choice" diluting
the useful applications once again.' - "True Linux advocate" Hadron
Quark

Terry Porter

unread,
Jan 23, 2009, 4:41:58 PM1/23/09
to
Homer wrote:

> Verily I say unto thee, that Miguel de Icaza spake thusly:
>
>> I typed that from memory, the real url is www.go-mono.com/moonlight
>>
>> Or the first google match for "Moonlight"

<snip excellent technical report re installing Moonlight from source>

> At this point, I'm basically stuck.
>
>
> So the question is, how do I, or anyone else who wishes to only use Free
> Software, view the contents of that Web page?
>
> Also, when can I expect to see a prebuilt package of Moonlight, built
> against Free Software codecs rather than Microsoft's proprietary
> software, in my distro's repo?
>
> TIA.
>


This may be the reason Moonlight does not exist as a *released* Ebuild
package for Gentoo, as Gentoo builds everything from source.

Homer

unread,
Jan 23, 2009, 11:56:47 PM1/23/09