Switched over to Linux Mint on Zephyrus G14 2021, first impressions

[RabidPedagog]

After some back and forth with RonB, and also because I respect his
opinion, I decided to go ahead and install the system I put on my
mother's computer. I figured that it would at least be less dull than
Windows has been for a while.

These are my first impressions, as far as this hardware is concerned.

1) Since I was using standard power management in Windows, Linux Mint
detected both the integrated and NVIDIA GPU without issue.

2) While it didn't use the proprietary GPU driver at first, Nouveau
works surprisingly well with the RTX3060.

3) Once the proprietary GPU driver was installed, Linux Mint properly
set both GPUs up properly. Namely, AMD will be used in most cases but
NVIDIA is available on demand. That is clearly the right setup and I'm
glad to see Linux Mint figured as well.

4) My networked HP printer was set up by default, and it seems to work
right. However, I will be installing the necessary packages to make sure
that I get an estimate of the toner levels and scanner functionality.

5) Enabling gestures and hot corners was a breeze. The only missing
gestures are to go back and forth on web pages using two-finger swipes.
It's not a big issue, but I got used to it and like it on both the Mac
and the Windows install for this hardware.

6) Setting up the ASUS ROG-Center was even easier than it was in PopOS.

7) None of the usual issues with screen tearing have appeared so far.
However, when switching back to Brave from a settings panel, it takes a
few seconds to refresh the window. This means that the area where the
browser's window would be is instead empty. This is obviously just
nit-picking.

Good job, either way. I think I've found the right distribution.

[%]

you're going to get snipped

[Joel]

And I might say "good job" to you, too, because you're showing why
Russell was talking out of his eye of the needle ass, about your
contributions, you almost had me wanting to put Linux on my computer,
right now, reading your great story. But I remembered, I do want
Win11, but nevertheless, it's getting sorta been there, done that.

--
Joel Crump

[%]

why don't you see deviant sex that way

[Joel]

% <purse...@gmail.com> wrote:

>> Win11 [is] getting sorta been there, done that.

>>
>why don't you see deviant sex that way

What makes you think that, sex, is the most fascinating thing, for me,
with my trans GF?

--
Joel Crump

[RonB]

I'm happy to see it worked out. I'm guessing you're using the Edge version?

I installed Linux Mint 21 "alongside" Windows 10 on my wife's old HP laptop,
installed Steam (via FlatPak because I wanted to be able to get rid of it
easily without any "residue"). Steam worked fine, but I was clueless about
what game to download, so picked DOT 2 (which turned out to be almost 50
GBs). It took forever to download and install – and even longer to set up
"vulkan shaders" (whatever they are). I have no idea, however, if the game
used the nVidia GPU. It worked fine, but I was clueless on how to play it,
just moved around for a while on the screen, it apparently to do something I
wasn't doing. It had about 10 tutorials (I watched the first video) and then
said "the heck with this" and deleted the whole mess. I don't think I'll
ever be a game player (except for Solitaire and Mahjongg).

BTW, the best Mahjongg game available in Linux Mint's repositories is
KMahjongg, which will require downloading some of the GTK files of KDE.
(Linux Mint will do it automatically.)

Good luck with Linux Mint.

--
"Evil preaches tolerance until it is dominant, then it tries to silence good."
-- Archbishop Charles J. Chaput

[vallor]

On Thu, 9 Nov 2023 06:46:59 -0000 (UTC), RonB <ronb02...@gmail.com>
wrote in <slrnukp033.8v7...@3020m.hitronhub.home>:

I'm running Linux Mint 21.2. I wouldn't recommend it for anyone
wanting to run _Starfield_, as you have to fiddle to keep the
NVidia driver from getting upgraded:

_ _ _ _ _ _ _
_[/root]_(root@lm)⭕_
# apt-mark showhold
nvidia-compute-utils-525
nvidia-dkms-525
nvidia-driver-525
nvidia-fabricmanager-525
nvidia-fabricmanager-dev-525
nvidia-headless-525
nvidia-headless-no-dkms-525
nvidia-kernel-common-525
nvidia-kernel-source-525
nvidia-utils-525
_ _ _ _ _ _ _

I don't recommend using apt-mark hold, unless you
have some ability with dpkg surgery.

I'm not one to say Linux "just works"... it needs occasional
administration, just as Windows does, or Mac OS. Usually,
there's someone around to help with that.

This system (a System76 Thelio) came with Linux Ubuntu installed, so I
guess in that respect, it "just worked". However, I wanted
the easy-of-use found with Linux Mint, so I installed
it on my second SSD, and Linux Mint has been my daily
driver since then. Indeed, I expected nothing less, as I've
been using Linux Mint ever since I jumped ship from
Fedora.

Note that I had a period that I would dual-boot
with Windows 10. Haven't needed to do that for a while,
thanks to being able to run Microsoft Teams, Word, etc.
with Linux. (As well as various games, using
"SteamPlay" -- the name Valve gives to running
things with proton.)

BTW, the game industry is huge, and by some measures, even
larger than the film industry. A casual gaming session
is like watching a movie, only you're the protagonist, and it's
interactive fiction. To explain a more in-depth session, such
as 6 hours at Starfield: well, it's a lot like binging a series
on Netflix.

--
-v

[RabidPedagog]

No, it wasn't necessary. Things work quite fine with the older kernel.
The people on asus-linux.org were recommending the newer kernel, but a
lot of that had to do with users requiring to follow their guide. Since
I don't intend to use Fedora for any reason (which is their preference),
I don't need their guide and can install some of the needed software on
my own.

> I installed Linux Mint 21 "alongside" Windows 10 on my wife's old HP laptop,
> installed Steam (via FlatPak because I wanted to be able to get rid of it
> easily without any "residue"). Steam worked fine, but I was clueless about
> what game to download, so picked DOT 2 (which turned out to be almost 50
> GBs). It took forever to download and install – and even longer to set up
> "vulkan shaders" (whatever they are). I have no idea, however, if the game
> used the nVidia GPU. It worked fine, but I was clueless on how to play it,
> just moved around for a while on the screen, it apparently to do something I
> wasn't doing. It had about 10 tutorials (I watched the first video) and then
> said "the heck with this" and deleted the whole mess. I don't think I'll
> ever be a game player (except for Solitaire and Mahjongg).

I think you mean DOTA 2. A friend of mine recommended it to me around
2008 or whatever, but I have not as of yet played it. I doubt that it
requires the NVIDIA GPU considering how old it is and how well it is
likely to play on even the most modest hardware.

> BTW, the best Mahjongg game available in Linux Mint's repositories is
> KMahjongg, which will require downloading some of the GTK files of KDE.
> (Linux Mint will do it automatically.)
>
> Good luck with Linux Mint.

So far, the Windows versions of Civilization VI and Cyberpunk run fine.
However, my save file from the latter game didn't transfer over since it
is attached to the GOG Galaxy program and Lutris only installs the game,
not the game interface. Considering how much time I put into that game,
I'm probably going to switch back over to Windows for that game
specifically when I decide to play the expansion. For some reason, I
couldn't get Capcom Arcade Stadium to run from within Steam though. No
matter which Proton version I chose to use, it got to a point where it
said "running DirectX script" but never actually launched. Considering
how it is a collection of 1980s-1990s arcade games, I find it weird that
it wouldn't play.

However, just about everything else runs fine. I'll test out the battery
once I get home to see if I can get the same kind of battery life or
better than I did in Windows. I'll also try to retrieve my save files
for that one particular game. However, Linux Mint can easily replace
Windows 11, especially since the aforementioned can be very annoying
with its updates (insists on installing a new AMD GPU driver but fails
every time), very annoying with the integrated GPU itself (screen
flashing for no reason), and very annoying with its insistence that Edge
should influence your entire experience. I need to tinker a lot less in
Windows, that's for sure, but I'm not sure that the trade-off is as fair
anymore. Do I really want to waste CPU cycles and compromise on my
privacy for the ease of Windows or Mac? I'm not sure. I'm getting older
and wiser.

--
RabidPedagog
TG: @RabidPedagog
Galatians 6:7

[RabidPedagog]

I'll say this much: Linux Mint gives you the familiarity of something
like Windows 2000 with the functionality Linux has always had without
all of the needless bells and whistles which have done little other than
slow Windows down since 1999. I like how I don't need to install another
application to get hot corners in Linux Mint. I like how I don't need to
install some obscure drivers to get gestures working either. It's not
perfect, but only because it doesn't allow me to run something that
shouldn't run under it as well as I would want. In other words, it does
a fantastic job at doing everything that Linux is supposed to do and a
good job of doing things that it shouldn't be able to do, like running
Windows games. It is definitely the most versatile system I've run so far.

> Note that I had a period that I would dual-boot
> with Windows 10. Haven't needed to do that for a while,
> thanks to being able to run Microsoft Teams, Word, etc.
> with Linux. (As well as various games, using
> "SteamPlay" -- the name Valve gives to running
> things with proton.)

I truly hope that I manage to get Capcom Arcade Stadium running in
Linux. There is no reason that it wouldn't work, and I am a big fan of
both Final Fight and 19XX. I don't play them all the time, but they're
fun to play casually.

> BTW, the game industry is huge, and by some measures, even
> larger than the film industry. A casual gaming session
> is like watching a movie, only you're the protagonist, and it's
> interactive fiction. To explain a more in-depth session, such
> as 6 hours at Starfield: well, it's a lot like binging a series
> on Netflix.

I'm looking forward to getting Starfield, but I might actually just get
it for the Xbox Series S considering I just got a new television for
that on Saturday. It's an entry-level Sony 4k 43" TV, yet it has the
prettiest colours and image quality I've ever had. I wouldn't mind
playing it on the laptop with the better GPU, but if it's as good as
Oblivion, Skyrim and the Fallout series, it deserves a bigger screen.

[DFS]

On 11/9/2023 3:21 AM, vallor wrote:

> BTW, the game industry is huge, and by some measures, even
> larger than the film industry. A casual gaming session
> is like watching a movie, only you're the protagonist, and it's
> interactive fiction. To explain a more in-depth session, such
> as 6 hours at Starfield: well, it's a lot like binging a series
> on Netflix.

Starfield is $70 for the base game. Worth it?

[DFS]

On 11/8/2023 8:35 PM, RabidPedagog wrote:

> I think I've found the right distribution.

User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird

Always put the OS in the user-agent header. I need granular data for my
cola telemetry.

[RabidPedagog]

You can get it as part of the Xbox Game Pass too. The membership should
be about $15.

[DFS]

Does that include the Windows version?

[RonB]

Did you install the FlatPak version of Steam or the regular repository
version? I don't know if it matters, but I think the FlatPak version would
probably be a little newer.

>> BTW, the game industry is huge, and by some measures, even
>> larger than the film industry. A casual gaming session
>> is like watching a movie, only you're the protagonist, and it's
>> interactive fiction. To explain a more in-depth session, such
>> as 6 hours at Starfield: well, it's a lot like binging a series
>> on Netflix.
>
> I'm looking forward to getting Starfield, but I might actually just get
> it for the Xbox Series S considering I just got a new television for
> that on Saturday. It's an entry-level Sony 4k 43" TV, yet it has the
> prettiest colours and image quality I've ever had. I wouldn't mind
> playing it on the laptop with the better GPU, but if it's as good as
> Oblivion, Skyrim and the Fallout series, it deserves a bigger screen.

Gaming is a whole world I'm completely ignorant about.

[RabidPedagog]

I didn't remove it, so I don't see the point of the comment.

[DFS]

On 11/9/2023 11:38 AM, RabidPedagog wrote:
> On 2023-11-09 9:24 a.m., DFS wrote:
>> On 11/8/2023 8:35 PM, RabidPedagog wrote:
>>
>>> I think I've found the right distribution.
>>
>>
>> User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird
>>
>> Always put the OS in the user-agent header.  I need granular data for
>> my cola telemetry.
>
> I didn't remove it, so I don't see the point of the comment.

Then add back the OS in the User-Agent header.

Tools | Settings | scroll down to Config Editor at bottom

general.useragent.override set to true
general.useragent set string to Thunderbird 'whatever OS'

Thanks in advance

[Joel]

That was a terrific advertisement for a better app for Usenet, than
Thunderbird. Why can't you just put your own X-OS header, like I have
had with Agent?

--
Joel Crump

[DFS]

In prior versions of Thunderbird you never had to mess with the
User-Agent string (unless you wanted to); it included the OS.

Now, Thunderbird by default just says 'Mozilla Thunderbird', with no OS.
Those settings I gave Slimer SHOULD work, but they don't. Too many
hobbyists gone wild with config settings. According to the Mozilla
support page, you also have to set privacy.resistFingerprinting to
false, which will then enable general.useragent.override. But in my
tests it doesn't - no matter what, all that gets sent is 'Mozilla
Thunderbird'.

But if you go to Help | Troubleshooting Info, it shows the custom
User-Agent you just created.

It's another hobbyware fiasco.

My code doesn't do a special check for custom headers like X-OS that
nobody uses. Just User-Agent and X-Newsreader, which covers approx
99.999% of all posts.

[RabidPedagog]

I used the .deb for Steam which, to this point, had never given me
issues. My machine has since been restarted so there is a chance it'll
work properly when I give it another try in a few minutes.

>>> BTW, the game industry is huge, and by some measures, even
>>> larger than the film industry. A casual gaming session
>>> is like watching a movie, only you're the protagonist, and it's
>>> interactive fiction. To explain a more in-depth session, such
>>> as 6 hours at Starfield: well, it's a lot like binging a series
>>> on Netflix.
>>
>> I'm looking forward to getting Starfield, but I might actually just get
>> it for the Xbox Series S considering I just got a new television for
>> that on Saturday. It's an entry-level Sony 4k 43" TV, yet it has the
>> prettiest colours and image quality I've ever had. I wouldn't mind
>> playing it on the laptop with the better GPU, but if it's as good as
>> Oblivion, Skyrim and the Fallout series, it deserves a bigger screen.
>
> Gaming is a whole world I'm completely ignorant about.

I know, but that's also why Linux has been so perfect for you for so
long. A lot of us gamers have been wanting to get away from Windows for
a long time, but that was what was holding us back. As I see it now,
there is basically no drawback to using Linux whatsoever anymore.

[DFS]

On 11/9/2023 1:13 PM, RabidPedagog wrote:

> A lot of us gamers have been wanting to get away from Windows for
> a long time, but that was what was holding us back. As I see it now,
> there is basically no drawback to using Linux whatsoever anymore.

Haven't been reading much of this thread. What gaming obstacle was
overcome such that Linux is now good to go for you?

[RabidPedagog]

Well, complex 3D games which are exclusive to Windows work fine in Linux
if you use Lutris. Similarly, superior Windows versions of games which
are available natively through Linux also install and play beautifully.
My expensive Razer controller was also detected within a second, and
allowed me to play Capcom Arcade Stadium. This is a big deal for me.

[vallor]

On Thu, 9 Nov 2023 13:26:30 -0500, DFS <nos...@dfs.com> wrote in
<rv93N.3852$2lob...@fx09.iad>:

Have you been missing the ongoing commentary about proton on Linux?

--
-v

[DFS]

On 11/9/2023 12:33 PM, Joel wrote:

I tried to add an X-OS header to this post. Did it work?

[DFS]

Which thread(s)? I'll check them out.

[candycanearter07]

Ironically, gaming was kinda a plus for me, because I primarily played
TF2 and L4D when I switched (which work better on Linux)
--
user <candycane> is generated from /dev/urandom

[candycanearter07]

Games just shouldn't be $70 imo.

[DFS]

I agree. Only the Half Life games were worth that, to me. But some of
the open-ended games, like Red Dead Redemption, might justify $70.

I did pay $50 to preorder Quake back in the 90s, and I wasn't disappointed.

For cheap fun, try Serious Sam HD: First Encounter

https://www.eneba.com/steam-serious-sam-hd-the-first-encounter-steam-key-global


or Portal 2 on Steam for $9.99

[vallor]

On Thu, 9 Nov 2023 14:49:09 -0500, DFS <nos...@dfs.com> wrote in
<VIa3N.1765$wvv7...@fx14.iad>:

It's peppered in the discussions about gaming on Linux, as well
why Wayland might be a bad idea for that. the ill-named "politics"
thread, the "57%" thread, and this thread.

Even had suppositions that proton, aka "SteamPlay", might be
able to run the Windows-native MS Word. (It's complete
enough to run games, why not Word? But don't expect it
to show up on the Steam store anytime soon!)

--
-v

[%]

heretic was better than doom

[candycanearter07]

On 11/9/23 14:12, DFS wrote:

> On 11/9/2023 3:00 PM, candycanearter07 wrote:
>> Games just shouldn't be $70 imo.
>
> I agree.  Only the Half Life games were worth that, to me.  But some of
> the open-ended games, like Red Dead Redemption, might justify $70.

They did put a lot into RDR.

> I did pay $50 to preorder Quake back in the 90s, and I wasn't disappointed.
>
> For cheap fun, try Serious Sam HD: First Encounter
>
> https://www.eneba.com/steam-serious-sam-hd-the-first-encounter-steam-key-global
>
>
> or Portal 2 on Steam for $9.99

I bought Portal 2 on sale for $5, I believe. Absolutely worth it.

[vallor]

On Thu, 9 Nov 2023 15:12:05 -0500, DFS <nos...@dfs.com> wrote in
<p2b3N.1767$wvv7...@fx14.iad>:

I've found Starfield worth the price, bugs and all, and I haven't
got to the second half of the game yet. Been planning to
play from the beginning so I can set up my skill points
better, as well as play the UC Sysdef quest line,
which is bugged on my savegame (can't progress).

Actually, there's a console command that will fix the quest line,
but that will disable earning achievements.

Anyway, if you get it, might try doing the UC Sysdef/Crimson
Fleet quest line first, so you can get past the buggy
dialogue before Starfield flips-out on it.

It's a bigger game than Half-Life. Heck, I didn't even set up
outposts until the "endgame", when I started crafting
in earnest. ("endgame" in quotes, because there's more after
following the story questline into The Great Unknown.)

I like the attention to detail. For example:
At one point had two outposts linked with a module that
looks like a small landing pad. Occasionally, a ship landed, picked
up the cargo, then took it to the linked outpost. Wasn't expecting
to see the cargo ships associated with the module, but it makes
sense, and it's pretty damned cool.

Running on Linux Mint with the nvidia*525 drivers and proton.
I've upgraded the latter to the "Glorious Eggroll" proton release for
bleeding-edge performance. (There is a qt app that installs
different versions of proton, making them available to Steam.)

--
-v

[RonB]

On 2023-11-09, RabidPedagog <ra...@pedag.og> wrote:
> On 11/9/23 10:55, RonB wrote:

<snip>

>> Did you install the FlatPak version of Steam or the regular repository
>> version? I don't know if it matters, but I think the FlatPak version would
>> probably be a little newer.
>
> I used the .deb for Steam which, to this point, had never given me
> issues. My machine has since been restarted so there is a chance it'll
> work properly when I give it another try in a few minutes.

In another post you mentioned using the FlatPak version of Steam, I guess
that fixed your issues.

>> Gaming is a whole world I'm completely ignorant about.
>
> I know, but that's also why Linux has been so perfect for you for so
> long. A lot of us gamers have been wanting to get away from Windows for
> a long time, but that was what was holding us back. As I see it now,
> there is basically no drawback to using Linux whatsoever anymore.

That's good to know. Now if anyone asks if they should move to Linux I'll
only say no if "they're married to Microsoft Office." But, even there, I
guess you can work online. I don't how limited the online version is,
however.

[RonB]

On 2023-11-09, RabidPedagog <ra...@pedag.og> wrote:

Lutris must be like Wine for Steam?

[RonB]

I think Portal 2 is one of the games my kids like. They keep trying to get
me interested in it.

[Joel]

DFS <nos...@dfs.com> wrote:

>My code doesn't do a special check for custom headers like X-OS that
>nobody uses. Just User-Agent and X-Newsreader, which covers approx
>99.999% of all posts.

Then you really were counting me as Windows when I ran Agent 8 under
Wine, dummy. I put X-OS indicating it was Linux/Wine, but "your code"
doesn't understand that cross-platform execution is a thing.

--
Joel Crump

[%]

go rub adam's apples

[candycanearter07]

The online version isn't that bad. Plus, LibreOffice has some support
for MS Office files.

[candycanearter07]

On 11/9/23 15:38, RonB wrote:
> On 2023-11-09, candycanearter07 <n...@thanks.net> wrote:
>> On 11/9/23 14:12, DFS wrote:
>>> On 11/9/2023 3:00 PM, candycanearter07 wrote:
>>>> Games just shouldn't be $70 imo.
>>>
>>> I agree.  Only the Half Life games were worth that, to me.  But some of
>>> the open-ended games, like Red Dead Redemption, might justify $70.
>>
>> They did put a lot into RDR.
>>
>>> I did pay $50 to preorder Quake back in the 90s, and I wasn't disappointed.
>>>
>>> For cheap fun, try Serious Sam HD: First Encounter
>>>
>>> https://www.eneba.com/steam-serious-sam-hd-the-first-encounter-steam-key-global
>>>
>>>
>>> or Portal 2 on Steam for $9.99
>>
>> I bought Portal 2 on sale for $5, I believe. Absolutely worth it.
>
> I think Portal 2 is one of the games my kids like. They keep trying to get
> me interested in it.
>

It's really really good. Also, it's Valve's last original game that is
any good (minus Alyx but I don't have a VR) so their game design is
their best yet.

[DFS]

The code cannot possibly know the OS unless the header indicates it. So,
dummy, if you want your posts to rollup to the correct OS, fix your
User-Agent or X-Newsreader header. I'm not gonna add special code for a
one-off X-OS header.

'Mozilla Thunderbird' with no OS is a very new agent string. I've
captured Thunderbird running on Windows, Linux, BSD, Mac, Android, BeOS,
AmigaOS, OS/2, AIX, SunOS, and unknown. Most Forte Agent strings don't
mention the OS, so they're assigned to Windows. There are a few oddities:

Forte Agent for Linux 1.93/32.576 English (American)
Forte Open Agent 1.92/32.572 (Linux)
Forte Agent (on Wine) 2.0/32.646

Wine runs on Linux, MacOS and BSD, but I assigned those posts to Linux.

My db is a few months out of date, but I've captured 6066 different
agent strings across 1.59M cola posts since mid-2003.

Top 10 User-Agent family posts on cola:

slrn 214479
KNode 196207
Thunderbird 179659
Google Groups 163971
Pan 126864
MS-Entourage 93308
Outlook Express 87693
40tude_Dialog 79716
Missing 70531
Forte Agent 67510


select u.useragentmajor, count(u.useragentmajor) as posts
from useragent u, post p
where u.useragentid = p.useragentid
and p.groupid = 1
group by u.useragentmajor
order by count(u.useragentmajor) desc

[DFS]

I can't believe Valve never did Half Life 3, or more HL2 episodes. It's
been 16 years since they released HL2 Episode 2, so it looks like
they're not going to, even though the world has been clamoring for it
for a long time.

[DFS]

I liked the Doom weapons better, but Heretic was fun too. Hexen was
much better than Heretic.

Do you remember the Porkalator in Hexen? It would turn your opponent
into a little squealing pink pig for about a minute, during which time
he had no weapons at all - he could just run away while squealing.
Hilarious. Well, I snuck up behind my online opponent (my good friend
in real life), hit him with the Porkalator, then right away used an ice
wand to freeze him in place as a little pig, then walked up to him and
shoved him over the edge of a balcony he was standing on. He fell to
the ground 2 stories below and shattered into hundreds of pieces!
I thought I would die laughing. It was a genius bit of game programming
on Raven's part.

[%]

i remember the name but don't remember playing the game ,
i think maybe i didn't like it but i don't know why ,
i bought my first computer just for the games

[RonB]

On 2023-11-09, candycanearter07 <n...@thanks.net> wrote:

If you decide to use LibreOffice, get the TimeStampBackup extension and make
a backup folder under Documents. LibreOffice defaults to putting your
backups in this folder... /home/username/.config/libreoffice/4/user/backup,
which is kind of silly. (Your default backup location may not be exactly the
same, I don't know for sure but I'm guessing it is.)

[RabidPedagog]

On 2023-11-09 6:23 p.m., DFS wrote:
> On 11/9/2023 4:53 PM, Joel wrote:
>> DFS <nos...@dfs.com> wrote:
>>
>>> My code doesn't do a special check for custom headers like X-OS that
>>> nobody uses.  Just User-Agent and X-Newsreader, which covers approx
>>> 99.999% of all posts.
>>
>>
>> Then you really were counting me as Windows when I ran Agent 8 under
>> Wine, dummy.  I put X-OS indicating it was Linux/Wine, but "your code"
>> doesn't understand that cross-platform execution is a thing.
>
>
> The code cannot possibly know the OS unless the header indicates it. So,
> dummy, if you want your posts to rollup to the correct OS, fix your
> User-Agent or X-Newsreader header.  I'm not gonna add special code for a
> one-off X-OS header.

Nobody here gives a shit about such things except for you.

< snip >

--
RabidPedagog
TG: @RabidPedagog
Galatians 6:7

[RonB]

I noticed when I posted the one test message here from Thunderbird (actually
Betterbird) that it didn't show the OS either. That used to be automatic, at
least I remember it being automatic. I never did anything to turn it on.

Now I'm curious about this.

[%]

like slrn

[Joel]

DFS <nos...@dfs.com> wrote:

>>> My code doesn't do a special check for custom headers like X-OS that
>>> nobody uses. Just User-Agent and X-Newsreader, which covers approx
>>> 99.999% of all posts.
>>
>> Then you really were counting me as Windows when I ran Agent 8 under
>> Wine, dummy. I put X-OS indicating it was Linux/Wine, but "your code"
>> doesn't understand that cross-platform execution is a thing.
>
>The code cannot possibly know the OS unless the header indicates it. So,
>dummy, if you want your posts to rollup to the correct OS, fix your
>User-Agent or X-Newsreader header. I'm not gonna add special code for a
>one-off X-OS header.
>
>'Mozilla Thunderbird' with no OS is a very new agent string. I've
>captured Thunderbird running on Windows, Linux, BSD, Mac, Android, BeOS,
>AmigaOS, OS/2, AIX, SunOS, and unknown. Most Forte Agent strings don't
>mention the OS, so they're assigned to Windows.

Translation: you can't code for shit.

> There are a few oddities:
>
>Forte Agent for Linux 1.93/32.576 English (American)
>Forte Open Agent 1.92/32.572 (Linux)
>Forte Agent (on Wine) 2.0/32.646
>
>Wine runs on Linux, MacOS and BSD, but I assigned those posts to Linux.
>
>My db is a few months out of date, but I've captured 6066 different
>agent strings across 1.59M cola posts since mid-2003.
>
>Top 10 User-Agent family posts on cola:
>
>slrn 214479
>KNode 196207
>Thunderbird 179659
>Google Groups 163971
>Pan 126864
>MS-Entourage 93308
>Outlook Express 87693
>40tude_Dialog 79716
>Missing 70531
>Forte Agent 67510
>
>
>select u.useragentmajor, count(u.useragentmajor) as posts
>from useragent u, post p
>where u.useragentid = p.useragentid
>and p.groupid = 1
>group by u.useragentmajor
>order by count(u.useragentmajor) desc

Here's an "oddity" you overlooked, genius: you see my headers when I
post, yourself, you know I had an X-OS header, indicating I was
running Agent under Linux. You failed to fix your code.

--
Joel Crump

[DFS]

On 11/10/2023 5:48 AM, Joel wrote:
> DFS <nos...@dfs.com> wrote:
>
>>>> My code doesn't do a special check for custom headers like X-OS that
>>>> nobody uses. Just User-Agent and X-Newsreader, which covers approx
>>>> 99.999% of all posts.
>>>
>>> Then you really were counting me as Windows when I ran Agent 8 under
>>> Wine, dummy. I put X-OS indicating it was Linux/Wine, but "your code"
>>> doesn't understand that cross-platform execution is a thing.
>>
>> The code cannot possibly know the OS unless the header indicates it. So,
>> dummy, if you want your posts to rollup to the correct OS, fix your
>> User-Agent or X-Newsreader header. I'm not gonna add special code for a
>> one-off X-OS header.
>>
>> 'Mozilla Thunderbird' with no OS is a very new agent string. I've
>> captured Thunderbird running on Windows, Linux, BSD, Mac, Android, BeOS,
>> AmigaOS, OS/2, AIX, SunOS, and unknown. Most Forte Agent strings don't
>> mention the OS, so they're assigned to Windows.
>
>
> Translation: you can't code for shit.

Translation: you're not "very, very special" like your parents told you.

And if the Agent useragent string doesn't include the OS, or can't be
edited to include it, it's not a "better app for Usenet" as you recently
claimed.

I don't see headers unless I make an effort with View | Message Source,
which I rarely do. The exception is when someone like you or Feeb or
Slimer claims they're a "Linux advocate", I'll check to see if they're
actually posting with Linux.

> You failed to fix your code.

My code doesn't need fixing; your borked header does.

[Joel]

DFS <nos...@dfs.com> wrote:

>>>>> My code doesn't do a special check for custom headers like X-OS that
>>>>> nobody uses. Just User-Agent and X-Newsreader, which covers approx
>>>>> 99.999% of all posts.
>>>>
>>>> Then you really were counting me as Windows when I ran Agent 8 under
>>>> Wine, dummy. I put X-OS indicating it was Linux/Wine, but "your code"
>>>> doesn't understand that cross-platform execution is a thing.
>>>
>>> The code cannot possibly know the OS unless the header indicates it. So,
>>> dummy, if you want your posts to rollup to the correct OS, fix your
>>> User-Agent or X-Newsreader header. I'm not gonna add special code for a
>>> one-off X-OS header.
>>>
>>> 'Mozilla Thunderbird' with no OS is a very new agent string. I've
>>> captured Thunderbird running on Windows, Linux, BSD, Mac, Android, BeOS,
>>> AmigaOS, OS/2, AIX, SunOS, and unknown. Most Forte Agent strings don't
>>> mention the OS, so they're assigned to Windows.
>>
>> Translation: you can't code for shit.
>
>Translation: you're not "very, very special" like your parents told you.

That's just your projection, apparently. I don't base my self-view on
my parents.

>And if the Agent useragent string doesn't include the OS, or can't be
>edited to include it, it's not a "better app for Usenet" as you recently
>claimed.

That's you blaming Agent for your own failure to account for variables
in the equation, dummy. This is why Calc 1 was the first math I took
in college that counted in comp sci. I took an entire year of 5 hour
per semester math, to qualify to take that (which I did in summer
school), then 2 in third semester, then I did the acid and quit
college, but I had shown that I would be a "very, very special"
student, were I to have continued onto UMD.

Agent can show them *in line* with the post, in the message body pane.
You are using inferior bullshit. Why do you think I ran Agent under
Wine, just because I was used to it? It's the "Windows app" you
always say is the best, yet you're apparently too cheap to use it.
Dummy.

> The exception is when someone like you or Feeb or
>Slimer claims they're a "Linux advocate", I'll check to see if they're
>actually posting with Linux.

And yet, you knew I was running Linux, or claiming to, you're just
making an excuse to say you didn't believe me, apparently. I must be
running Winblows, if I'm still using Agent, in your mind, even though
at first I *DID* post from Thunderbird, and your precious header did
tell your code that.

> > You failed to fix your code.
>
>My code doesn't need fixing; your borked header does.

Idiotic. Programmers don't make excuses, chump. No wonder you think
NT is as cool as GNU/Linux.

--
Joel Crump

[RabidPedagog]

On 2023-11-10 8:58 a.m., DFS wrote:

> I don't see headers unless I make an effort with View | Message Source,
> which I rarely do.  The exception is when someone like you or Feeb or
> Slimer claims they're a "Linux advocate", I'll check to see if they're
> actually posting with Linux.

Do you have to exclusively listen to heavy metal to be able to advocate
for that style of music?

[Joel]

DFS <nos...@dfs.com> wrote:

>> Here's an "oddity" you overlooked, genius: you see my headers when I
>> post, yourself, you know I had an X-OS header, indicating I was
>> running Agent under Linux.
>
>I don't see headers unless I make an effort with View | Message Source,
>which I rarely do. The exception is when someone like you or Feeb or
>Slimer claims they're a "Linux advocate", I'll check to see if they're
>actually posting with Linux.
>
> > You failed to fix your code.
>
>My code doesn't need fixing; your borked header does.

From: Joel Crump <joel...@gmail.com>
Newsgroups: comp.os.linux.advocacy
Subject: Re: Linux kernel to be added to Windows 10
Date: Tue, 7 May 2019 11:16:22 -0400
Message-ID: <qas7g8$fa7$1...@dont-email.me>
User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:60.0) Gecko/20100101
Thunderbird/60.6.1

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Read it and weep, fool. You knew I was running Linux, even when I
went back to Agent under it, but you wanted to pretend I wasn't. You
have now accidentally, by implication, admitted that. And you can't
deny it. "Your code" *deliberately* overlooked an exception, hurting
your point.

--
Joel Crump

[DFS]

On 11/10/2023 9:21 AM, RabidPedagog wrote:
> On 2023-11-10 8:58 a.m., DFS wrote:
>
>> I don't see headers unless I make an effort with View | Message
>> Source, which I rarely do.  The exception is when someone like you or
>> Feeb or Slimer claims they're a "Linux advocate", I'll check to see if
>> they're actually posting with Linux.
>
> Do you have to exclusively listen to heavy metal to be able to advocate
> for that style of music?

Yes.

[RabidPedagog]

You would have made an excellent religious fanatic.

[candycanearter07]

It's hard to believe they don't know what they are doing at this point.

[DFS]

What are you babbling about? Posts you submitted with the above agent
string were rolled up to Linux.

My code and db doesn't care what OS you say you're running; it processes
the data in the post.

> "Your code" *deliberately* overlooked an exception, hurting
> your point.

Of course it overlooked an exception. I'm not hard-coding anything to
compensate for bad data.

Best I can do is add bogus entries such as "Forte Agent 1.92 (Wine on
Linux)" to the database and do a one-time reassignment of your old Agent
posts to these bogus entries. But unless you fix the header, the data
will never match reality going forward.

Here's what you submitted through early Aug 2023:
User Agent String Posts First Post Latest Post
Forte Agent 1.92/32.572 735 2009-11-10 2010-04-23
Forte Agent 6.00/32.1186 10 2010-04-23 2011-12-26
Forte Agent/8.00.32.1272 991 2015-09-13 2020-04-15
ForteAgent/8.00.32.1272 3616 2020-04-15 2023-08-12

Are you saying every one of them was via Wine on Linux?

Note: there are many hundreds of Forte Agent users besides you.

In most cases it's programmatically assigned:
If newsreader contains 'Z' then OS = 'Z'

In those cases where there's no OS in the header, I look online to
determine it. If I can't, I assign 'unknown' as the OS.

Forte Agent is a Windows-only app, so I assigned Windows as the OS. If
you're running it under Wine on Linux, fix the header to say so.

Aside: there's also nonsense put in the User-Agent header. It gets
assigned unknown family, unknown OS. From time to time I'll go thru
them and try to determine the real values, but it's never-ending.

===========================================================
(WWEFMM18)
*** secret ***
.: secret :.
/perv/2008/ur
2550.25! LOL! https://www.google.com/search?q=sinewavestew
: :/Li.nux English (American)
:redaersweN-X
A News Client [not] a Disabled News Browser
A Sexy Little Number/1.0
A Stiff Shag ver. 6.1
A newsreader
A-Yeah! v9
ANKARA UNIVERSITESI/1.0.1
ANT RISCOS Marcel [ver 1.53]
AOL/0.001 (Atari)
Airline Newsreader
All mail clients suck. This one just sucks less.
All mail clients suck. This one just sucks way more.
All the News that Fits (1.0)
Anatomically Correct Newsreader
Android
Arse 'Ole Laddie
Astalavista.net webbased newsreader (tCTKmm)
Astalavista.net webbased newsreader (ujjh~y)
Auto Binaries Poster Version 1.8.0 Build 620
Automatic Typo-Generator [Versoin 1.0]
Blind zealotism is a disease of the mind.
Blunderthird/0.7.6.666 Mnenhy/0.7.6.666
Bob's Newsmonkey 1.1
COLA Quality Control Committee
COLA Stats Engine
Camp0ven Baked [Bedourie] freeStyle Fortinic Agent [ver.303-Enfield.42g]
Ceci n'est pas une newsreader.
Codeforge Sophax 2.0 beta
Daeron aka Doug Mentohl/Mitchell is a kook.
Daeron aka Doug Mitchell/Mentohl is a dorkster
Daeron is <-- fill in the blank-->
Daeron is a ???
Daeron is a blimp.
Daeron is a dorkster
Daeron is a kook
Daeron is a loser
Daeron is a sprog
Daeron is a weak minded *sole*
Daeron is a weirdo
Daeron is it human?
Daeron likes bondage.
Daeron, does anyone really know?
Disney Approved Newsreader
Doesn't exist
Duck & Firkin
Dumper Poster
Dunfield client 020918a
Dylan's Cheese Reader/1.0
EDLIN.EXE
EZnn0.37p
English (American)
Enter new UA String or choose a common one. Then press ENTER
FUDforum 3.0.7
FUDspreader Pro v1.0.4
Fidolook Express V1.51rus for MS OE 5.0
Flrn (0.9.20070701)
Flrn (0.9.20070704)
Foorum
Fortex
Fuck you asshole
GNU Outlook Express 0.00.0000.0001
GNU Outlook Express 0.00.0000.0001
GNU Outlook Express 0.00.0000.0002
Gigi's Own NewsReader 1.20 (http://gon.sf.net/)
GoldED+/W32 1.1.4.7
Gumbi 1.0
Gynecolumnator v4.0
HaselCorp OutOfLuck XPress 666131313
Hello! I'm Aquila Deus!!
Hello! I'm Aquila!!
Hello! I'm d2003xx!!
Hello! I'm d2004xx!!
Horde Application Framework 5
Host Europe Webmailer/1.0
I run Linux, do you?
I use Linux. Do you?
Inbox.lv Webmail
Indoctrinator Pro v3.3.0
Infinite Mobile Delivery (Hydra) News v3.62.01
Insert anything here
Internet Exploiter has encountered an error and needs to close
It's a mouse!
Jane Bond Girl Of Next Millennium
K-@ Mail for Android
Kadaitcha Man was here
Kaufman Pravda 1,26
LOL/3.1415
Lart_Reader 2.0
Legs akimbo ver. 6.1
Linux helps faggots
Linux makes you stupid
Linux sucks
Loco Ver.Y2K
Lookout Xpress
Lucy - http://www.geniegate.com/other/lucy/
MJ is GUILTY!
MS_nrop_view 3.3
MailAPI
MailChk/0.0.1
Marks Telepathetic Psycobabble Generator Deluxe v1.51
Martin's dream machine
Max Pwn3r v4.20
Max Reader v4.20
Microhard Lookout Expresstrain 6.66.satan
Microsoft Buzzard Express 1.00.2800.1158
Microsoft Internet News 4.70.1161
Microsoft Office/16.0 (CrOS 97.0.4692.102; Microsoft Outlook 16.0.5149; Pro)
Microsoft OutHouse Express 6.00.2900.2869
Microsoft Outhouse Express 6.00.1900.3199
Microsoft Outl00k, Demented Donald Edition
Microsoft Outl00k, Usenet K00k Editions
Microsoft SUX
Mime 1.0
Mircosoft Outoftown Expired 7.89.2829.1100
MoMoCha.0.96b.X11.gcc3.3
My Brain Hurts v7.4
MyGate/2.6.0.171 (http://barin.com.ua/soft/mygate/)
MyNewsGroups :) v 0.6
MyNewsReader
NN version 6.5.0 #2 (NOV)
NN version 6.5.0 #8 (NOV)
NN version 6.5.5 (NOV)
NN version 6.5.6
NOCC <http://nocc.sourceforge.net/>
NTAdvFTP61.Gorup
Neotonic Trakken/2.5.8
News Reading Machine/0.10.9
News::Web v0.50.03
NewsAgent 0.85 for RISC OS
NewsFleX-1.5.7.5 (Linux-2.6.37.6)
NewsReader.Com
No Gnus v0.6
Nobodyyouknow
None
None of your business
Not Mutt
Not Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2100
Not a Microsoft Product.
OOOOPQ
OSSI Approved Newsreader
Ozum 3.03 newsreader, scanner & free autoposter (ozinsight.com)
PC Repair and Better Built Computers
PCP - Angel dust
POOP-Reader
Party Approved Newsreader
Peck's Power Post - v0.6b
Peter Buster
Peter the Klown Buster V1.0
Ph_nglui-mglw_nafh-Cthulhu-R_lyeh-wgah_nagl-fhtagn_1.3_i666-linux-gnu
PileDriver Miscreant 2.3.117 (17 November 2001)
Plonkenlights
Private/0.0 (Linux x86_64)
Progressivism 1.1.42 (Feminism compatible; 64-bit;
Progressivism 1.1.42 (Feminism compatible; 64-bit; i686-linux-gnu)
PstingSoftwareX10
Purgatory professional, Hell with Fire & Brimstone 6.6.6
Pussy Willow's Poast Shredder V1.0
Pussy Willow's post shredder V1.0
R2-DV8
RRR_Puppy
Raptor News
Ro24vL8xIvd7tA0W.wm2pt
RoT Rules OK
Rocksolid Light (news.novabbs.com/getrslight)
Roll yer own
SOGoMail 2.3.23
Santa Approved Newsreader
Satan Satan 666 /13.666 English (American)
Second test
Shoe Phone/Linux kernel 2.6
Shysterwitch version 0.99.18.41.03.21-.a
Shysterwitch version 0.99.18.41.03.21-a
Small-weird-dick-with-a-head-like-a-mushroom 3.14
Smith
Some cool user agent (SCUG)
SonyEricssonP800/R101 Profile/MIDP-1.0 Configuration/CLDC-1.0
Spotnet 1
Sticked and Stoned
Sup/0.12.1
The Force
The Twin Orbs of my Brane
Tom's custom newsreader
Trollbuster
Twisted ManifoldForte Agent 4.2/32.1118
UNC-CH Webmail 2.0
Uccello del tuono
Unknown
Unlisted
Up hill, down dale
ViewSplorf 1.0 (The grabbing hands grab all they can.)
W3C_Validator/1.183 libwww-perl/5.64
WMDIYB
Web-Based Email 4.14.10
Web-GW 0.01
What do you want to know that for?
White 'I am an idiot' Spirit
WinBOT v1.0.5
Would you believe, agent 86? (KKNT)
X-Newsreader 5.0 Gold
XBoX 64 (NVidea GForce 3 Architecture)
XS4ALL Webmail
XWing
Xerox 820-II, Digital Research CP/M-80, ASCOM 0.9
Yes I use Linux
Yo Ding Dong Man, Ding Dong, Ding Dong Yo
agent
anfscd 0.1
aseriesoftubes
blueMail 1.2 (SlipDoor 2.2)
com.subsume.NNTP/1.0.0
console
dBforums
dfs says i need a User-Agent, so here it is
eGroups-EW/0.82
elephants!
flatfish
free.webuse.net
freenet-api2
fsuoihsduiofhdfgd
general.useragent.override
getpedia
ghytred.NewsLook v1.60.1625.27002
gnus
google g1/g2 ssl
guess
hidden
http://groups.google.com
knntp 0.1beta13 (MIPS; 150MHz)
known
mail2nntp v1.0 (c) sch...@procoders.net
news.comcast.net
newsprog
no
posting.google.com 1203969134 25683 127.0.0.1 (18 Feb 2008 12:34:69 GMT)
python 3
rn.py v0.0.1
sdfhuyisguygsdf
secret
something-sco-did-not-write
stAUKer 0.666b
unspecified
useragent
webfrustration.com
wikipediamailer
www.codecomments.com news gateway
www.mynewsgate.net
www.newsland.it
www.talkaboutcomputing.com
www.talkaboutdatabases.com
www.talkaboutprogramming.com
www.webuse.net
xcite1.48> Wanderlust/2.15.2 (Almost Unreal) SEMI/1.14.6 (Maruoka)
FLIM/1.14.7 (=?ISO-8859-4?Q?Sanj=F2?=) APEL/10.6 Emacs/22.0.50
(i386-mingw-nt5.1.2600) MULE/5.0 (SAKAKI) Meadow/3.00-dev (KIKU)
xnews (by Bob Martin, in ooRexx & ncurses)
youmustbejoking 4.0-test76 (Apr 2, 2001)
zarathustra English
|Peter's Homebrew Newsreader V0.1/0.1
✓
===========================================================

[DFS]

I haven't read any definitive answer from Valve directly, but clearly
they don't care about the enormous money a new Half Life version would
generate.

Their website currently says "We have some new games in the works, too.
A couple have been announced, while others remain top secret."

Hopefully one of them is an evolution of Half-Life.

One thing's for sure about their new games: they won't be Linux-only,
even though that disloyal slob Valve CEO Gabe Newell said 10 years ago
that "Linux is the future of gaming" (Linux was then and still is around
1% of the gaming population on Steam). Keep hope alive!

[DFS]

On 11/10/2023 9:17 AM, Joel wrote:
> DFS <nos...@dfs.com> wrote:
>
>>>>>> My code doesn't do a special check for custom headers like X-OS that
>>>>>> nobody uses. Just User-Agent and X-Newsreader, which covers approx
>>>>>> 99.999% of all posts.
>>>>>
>>>>> Then you really were counting me as Windows when I ran Agent 8 under
>>>>> Wine, dummy. I put X-OS indicating it was Linux/Wine, but "your code"
>>>>> doesn't understand that cross-platform execution is a thing.
>>>>
>>>> The code cannot possibly know the OS unless the header indicates it. So,
>>>> dummy, if you want your posts to rollup to the correct OS, fix your
>>>> User-Agent or X-Newsreader header. I'm not gonna add special code for a
>>>> one-off X-OS header.
>>>>
>>>> 'Mozilla Thunderbird' with no OS is a very new agent string. I've
>>>> captured Thunderbird running on Windows, Linux, BSD, Mac, Android, BeOS,
>>>> AmigaOS, OS/2, AIX, SunOS, and unknown. Most Forte Agent strings don't
>>>> mention the OS, so they're assigned to Windows.
>>>
>>> Translation: you can't code for shit.
>>
>> Translation: you're not "very, very special" like your parents told you.
>
>
> That's just your projection, apparently. I don't base my self-view on
> my parents.

Where else did you learn to be a pathetic narcissist and
lie/brag/delusion about yourself constantly?

>> And if the Agent useragent string doesn't include the OS, or can't be
>> edited to include it, it's not a "better app for Usenet" as you recently
>> claimed.
>
>
> That's you blaming Agent for your own failure to account for variables
> in the equation, dummy.

The OS variable was missing from the equation.

> This is why Calc 1 was the first math I took
> in college that counted in comp sci. I took an entire year of 5 hour
> per semester math, to qualify to take that (which I did in summer
> school), then 2 in third semester, then I did the acid and quit
> college, but I had shown that I would be a "very, very special"
> student, were I to have continued onto UMD.

From college student to God in just a few short years? It's a miracle.

You know, you should be supremely pissed at wasting your potential and
turning to stupid-ass drugs for solace.

The TBird View | Headers | Normal setting (which I use) shows 4 headers:
name, newsgroups, subject, references.

The View | Headers | All setting shows 4 more: organization, date,
messageID, user agent.

> Why do you think I ran Agent under
> Wine, just because I was used to it? It's the "Windows app" you
> always say is the best, yet you're apparently too cheap to use it.
> Dummy.

I tried Agent a long time ago, but I like TBird much more. But now I'm
using Betterbird, because the latest TBird looks like crap. But it
turns out Betterbird suffers from the same FOSS shit-code as the latest
TBird: about half the posts I send aren't actually sent. I then have to
Forward them, which drops the references, or start over with Followup
and cut and paste from my original. Total fucking hassle and waste of
time, and I'm sick to death of it.

The culprit seems to be if I save the post during editing, it won't
send. It says it was sent, and the post is moved to the Sent folder,
but it doesn't actually make it to blocknews.

>> The exception is when someone like you or Feeb or
>> Slimer claims they're a "Linux advocate", I'll check to see if they're
>> actually posting with Linux.
>
>
> And yet, you knew I was running Linux, or claiming to, you're just
> making an excuse to say you didn't believe me, apparently. I must be
> running Winblows, if I'm still using Agent, in your mind, even though
> at first I *DID* post from Thunderbird, and your precious header did
> tell your code that.

I've always believed you were running whatever OS you say you're
running. Only the lying, two-faced, "only CLI, only GuhNoo/Linux" twit
and shitheel Feeb Russell doesn't deserve the benefit of the doubt.

But code and data doesn't care about beliefs or feelings or claims. Why
do you not get that?

>>> You failed to fix your code.
>>
>> My code doesn't need fixing; your borked header does.
>
>
> Idiotic. Programmers don't make excuses, chump.

Only a "very, very special" luser would ask for special treatment
because his usage of the app isn't up to snuff.

It can be done, because the header "Forte Agent (on Wine) 2.0/32.646"
was submitted.

> No wonder you think NT is as cool as GNU/Linux.

Nothing is cooler - for users - than free source code and free (of cost)
software (although having the source is useless to virtually every Linux
user).

Nothing is deadlier - for software developers trying to make a living -
than giving away the source code, especially under the GuhNoo Public
License. Doing that immediately reduces the market value of the product
to near zero. Lives are wasted and jobs are lost. Wretched Stallman
claps his pudgy hands and celebrates their demise with double-stuffed
Oreos, while Feeb cringes and hangs onto his Windows job for dear life.

[chrisv]

RabidPedagog wrote:

> some dumb fsck wrote:

>>
>> RabidPedagog wrote:
>>>
>>> Do you have to exclusively listen to heavy metal to be able to
>>> advocate for that style of music?
>>
>> Yes.
>
>You would have made an excellent religious fanatic.

He's a shamelessly lying asshole.

--
"I know you are reading the messages anyway" - "flatfish", lying
shamelessly

[Joel]

chrisv <chr...@nospam.invalid> wrote:
>RabidPedagog wrote:
>> some dumb fsck wrote:
>>> RabidPedagog wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Do you have to exclusively listen to heavy metal to be able to
>>>> advocate for that style of music?
>>>
>>> Yes.
>>
>>You would have made an excellent religious fanatic.
>
>He's a shamelessly lying asshole.

DFS has a point, though, of course no one literally "exclusively
listens to" metal, but people who advocate it play it on their phone
or hi-fi system themselves.

--
Joel Crump

[RabidPedagog]

On 2023-11-10 5:20 p.m., chrisv wrote:
> RabidPedagog wrote:
>
>> some dumb fsck wrote:
>>>
>>> RabidPedagog wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Do you have to exclusively listen to heavy metal to be able to
>>>> advocate for that style of music?
>>>
>>> Yes.
>>
>> You would have made an excellent religious fanatic.
>
> He's a shamelessly lying asshole.

I wouldn't go that far, but he definitely concerns himself with stuff
that doesn't really matter. Why do I get the feeling that he's an
accountant?

[chrisv]

RabidPedagog wrote:

> chrisv wrote:
>> RabidPedagog wrote:
>>> some dumb fsck wrote:
>>>> RabidPedagog wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> Do you have to exclusively listen to heavy metal to be able to
>>>>> advocate for that style of music?
>>>>
>>>> Yes.
>>>
>>> You would have made an excellent religious fanatic.
>>
>> He's a shamelessly lying asshole.
>
>I wouldn't go that far,

Well you should, as it couldn't be more obvious. He lied above, with
his "yes".

One does not need to be exclusively FOSS to advocate for it.

--
"Turns out the chance [that chrisv called for govt interference to
force retailers to sell Linux systems.] IS 100%" - DumFSck, lying
shamelessly

[vallor]

On Sat, 11 Nov 2023 07:52:19 -0500, RabidPedagog <ra...@pedag.og> wrote in
<7OK3N.1281$zh16...@fx48.iad>:

I think he used to complain that Linux didn't have
Microsoft Access.

--
-v

[vallor]

On Sat, 11 Nov 2023 16:59:25 -0600, chrisv <chr...@nospam.invalid> wrote
in <hl10lilngjbo2o4q6...@4ax.com>:

> RabidPedagog wrote:
>
>> chrisv wrote:
>>> RabidPedagog wrote:
>>>> some dumb fsck wrote:
>>>>> RabidPedagog wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Do you have to exclusively listen to heavy metal to be able to
>>>>>> advocate for that style of music?
>>>>>
>>>>> Yes.
>>>>
>>>> You would have made an excellent religious fanatic.
>>>
>>> He's a shamelessly lying asshole.
>>
>>I wouldn't go that far,
>
> Well you should, as it couldn't be more obvious. He lied above, with
> his "yes".

I think he was kidding. Maybe he'll clarify.

>
> One does not need to be exclusively FOSS to advocate for it.

Of course.

--
-v

[DFS]

No.

My complaint was Linux had no competitive desktop database at all. And
it still doesn't, as far as I know.

LibreOffice Base was and is NOT one. Not even close.

You can use PyQt and SQLite or MariaDB etc to build good desktop db apps
on Linux, but they lack many of the built-in features of Access, and
they have no interoperability with other office software they way Access
does with other MS Office components.

Face it: MS is just smarter than FOSS.

[rbowman]

On Sun, 12 Nov 2023 10:45:26 -0500, DFS wrote:

> You can use PyQt and SQLite or MariaDB etc to build good desktop db apps
> on Linux, but they lack many of the built-in features of Access, and
> they have no interoperability with other office software they way Access
> does with other MS Office components.

https://www.postgresql.org/

or if you prefer MSSQL

https://linux.how2shout.com/how-to-install-microsoft-sql-server-on-
ubuntu-20-04-lts/

The Express edition is free and 10 GB should be enough to hold your
recipes. That's 5 times the Access limit of 2GB (it turns to shit at about
1GB)

If you prefer another proprietary database DB2 has a community edition
that works on Linux.

I suppose Access is a step up from FoxPro, but seriously? Use a real
RDBMS.

[DFS]

On 11/12/2023 1:10 PM, rbowman wrote:
> On Sun, 12 Nov 2023 10:45:26 -0500, DFS wrote:
>
>> You can use PyQt and SQLite or MariaDB etc to build good desktop db apps
>> on Linux, but they lack many of the built-in features of Access, and
>> they have no interoperability with other office software they way Access
>> does with other MS Office components.
>
> https://www.postgresql.org/
>
> or if you prefer MSSQL
>
> https://linux.how2shout.com/how-to-install-microsoft-sql-server-on-
> ubuntu-20-04-lts/
>
> The Express edition is free and 10 GB should be enough to hold your
> recipes. That's 5 times the Access limit of 2GB (it turns to shit at about
> 1GB)

Before that, depending. When there are lots of rows, Access will
sometimes choke just changing a column type.

Fact is, the 2GB Access file size limit is far larger than most
databases in the world. I created a 98-table multi-user departmental
Access system (about 10 dedicated users) to track all properties opened
by a large franchiser. After 4 years of use and 1700 properties run
through it, it was only 375mb of data.

It's plenty robust enough, too. I built dozens of corporate
departmental Access databases thru the years. Might have lost a row or
two of data, but in general it was very reliable.

> If you prefer another proprietary database DB2 has a community edition
> that works on Linux.

Oracle has an Express Edition too. Last year I exceeded its max with
<20 years of cola posts.

> I suppose Access is a step up from FoxPro, but seriously? Use a real
> RDBMS.

Something you need that's not available in the Access/Jet engine?

It is a real RDBMS, albeit with low capacities. Because it's part of
Office, it might even be the most used database in the business world.

[rbowman]

On Sun, 12 Nov 2023 17:00:15 -0500, DFS wrote:


> Fact is, the 2GB Access file size limit is far larger than most
> databases in the world. I created a 98-table multi-user departmental
> Access system (about 10 dedicated users) to track all properties opened
> by a large franchiser. After 4 years of use and 1700 properties run
> through it, it was only 375mb of data.

You lead a very sheltered life. I've been using a month's worth of data
from one site to test report generation and chart creation. The main table
has over 47,000 records. For smaller sites using SQL Express historical
data is typically purged after 4 years to keep within the 10GB limit.

In the GIS world Esri used to support Access, which they referred to as a
'personal' database. ArcGIS Pro no longer supports it although you can
pull data with an OLE connection to transfer to an enterprise or file gdb.

500 MB was the practical limit before performance fell off, and that's a
relatively small dataset.

> Oracle has an Express Edition too. Last year I exceeded its max with
> <20 years of cola posts.

DB2's express or whatever they're calling it now is also limited. The
enterprise editions aren't cheap but you need really deep pockets for
Oracle's.

> Something you need that's not available in the Access/Jet engine?

Size, performance, and cross platform availability. Spatial awareness
like Postgres/PostGIS is nice too. Access finally made it to the 64-but
world, sort of. There is no reason for me to tie myself to a legacy,
proprietary db.

[Branimir Maksimovic]

On 2023-11-12, rbowman <bow...@montana.com> wrote:
> On Sun, 12 Nov 2023 10:45:26 -0500, DFS wrote:
>
>> You can use PyQt and SQLite or MariaDB etc to build good desktop db apps
>> on Linux, but they lack many of the built-in features of Access, and
>> they have no interoperability with other office software they way Access
>> does with other MS Office components.
>
> https://www.postgresql.org/
>
> or if you prefer MSSQL
>
> https://linux.how2shout.com/how-to-install-microsoft-sql-server-on-
> ubuntu-20-04-lts/
>
> The Express edition is free and 10 GB should be enough to hold your
> recipes. That's 5 times the Access limit of 2GB (it turns to shit at about
> 1GB)

I have developer edition which is full featured database. It's just
people don't know that on Linux you have it for free...

>


--

7-77-777, Evil Sinner!
https://www.linkedin.com/in/branimir-maksimovic-6762bbaa/

[chrisv]

vallor wrote:

> chrisv wrote:
>>
>> RabidPedagog wrote:
>>>
>>> chrisv wrote:
>>>>
>>>> He's a shamelessly lying asshole.
>>>
>>> I wouldn't go that far,
>>
>> Well you should, as it couldn't be more obvious. He lied above, with
>> his "yes".
>
> I think he was kidding. Maybe he'll clarify.

Giving that asshole the benefit of the doubt, are we?

Do you think he's kidding when he asserts that FOSS advocates are
hypocrites if they use any closed-source software?

The music analogy was apt, so the ridiculous liar must "kid" about it,
so as to not tacitly admit that he attacks decent people with lies.

>> One does not need to be exclusively FOSS to advocate for it.
>
> Of course.

--

"So when's the last time you went to work for free, you shabby
hypocrite?" - DumFSck

[Joel]

DFS <nos...@dfs.com> wrote:
>On 11/8/2023 8:35 PM, RabidPedagog wrote:
>
>> I think I've found the right distribution.
>
>User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird
>
>Always put the OS in the user-agent header. I need granular data for my
>cola telemetry.


I found that Agent 8 will not add a second or replacement User-Agent
header, but you could check for X-OS.

--
Joel W. Crump