Why Linux is so important

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john....@gmail.com

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May 15, 2006, 3:36:47 PM5/15/06
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In 1989, I recognized that there should be a global free network for
all the people to use to communicate. I was a mechanic at the time,
and I distinctly remember the moment; I was spitting out a mouthful of
antifreeze while pulling a hose off of a corroded radiator.

I was envisioning for myself the Internet; soon after that I pursed a
career in computer communication. Today all of you benefit from the
work of the Internet engineers.

But, unfortunately, the computer you use right now is licensed to the
most controlling and wealthiest organization in the world: Microsoft.

It may be difficult to conceive of how a computer company can be so
controlling and dangerous unless you investigate the entire history of
humanity and how information technology has been corrupted to implement
control and cruelty from the very beginnings of humanity.

The first machine was built from human parts: it was the Egyptian
empire's slavery structure created to build edifices to its elite, so
the elite could live forever in the after world. They had no machines
as we know them today: they rolled blocks on logs; they killed most of
their slaves and workers with the effects of rock mining through
silicosis poisoning.

This is a theme through humanity to the present-day blue collar worker.
Even unions support the concept that the worker is part of the
machine, to be used and broken for support of a system owned wholly by
the elite. This concept is called human capital.

The military works in a similar way, molding youth to become cannon
fodder. At the center of it all, is the same control structure the
they Egyptians built. Here in the US, direct descendants of the
Egyptian edifice builders provide loyal support for the president and
the war in Iraq; they are the Freemasons and the Shriners.

Knowledge is treated exactly the same as real estate property. The
globalist information protection organization, WIPO, defines this for
us -- World Information Property Organization. They are committed to
the acquisition of all technical knowledge and art into corporate
portfolios, just as SONY owns the freedom lyrics of John Lennon.

Free and open information, such as GNU or open source, is referred to
as being part of the public domain. The public domain originates with
the wild lands that were available to everybody. As an example the
elite European families created estates by illegally absorbing the
public lands to implement a form of slavery called serfdom.

Colonialists in the America's did much the same, genociding the native
tribes directly through murder, isolation, forced migration and
disease. All the while, the colonialist information technology, as it
was, allowed the expansionists to appear civilized and social through
lies as they stole all the free land. Today, the acquisition of
protected land through the process of eminent domain, allows municipal
governments to destroy the last forests, installing the sub-divisions
of suburban sprawl filled with the worst possible houses.

At the center of information control today is Microsoft; we are all
paying homage and cash to the modern control structure at this very
moment while we attempt to undo the authoritarian control that is
destroying our planet.

What is the solution ?? Linux is.

Linux is a free operating system designed purely democratically and
made available for the public. It is linked to the GNU philosophy and
support organization, which is religiously opposed to the criminal
control of computers and communication by the same people who are
reducing our planet to the needs of corporate stockholders. While
resolving the issues of information technology, the free software
movement provides ideas which can be extended to all technology,
especially in the areas of energy and transportation. A further
extension of the philosophy can help us understand our unnecessary
dependence on physical property.

The free and open software philosophies are not communist in any way,
they supports free enterprise through sharing, through the high synergy
and democratic developers of the public domain.

The very opposite of this high synergy, which is the meaningful
distribution of resources, is capitalism. Capital is not money, as
much as capitalists want you think it is. Capital purely describes the
inefficient centralization of resources, the piling of all wealth in
central locations, all of which are controlled by the elite of each
nation's dominant cultures.

The term derives from caput in Latin, meaning head. The practice of it
derives from the highly damaging slavery-based Roman empire. I barely
need to remind you how horrific their animal blood sports were.

Microsoft directly inherits the Roman Empire's diffuse communication
and centralization network, as well as its mantel of acquisition and
control.

Rex Ballard

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May 15, 2006, 7:51:14 PM5/15/06
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john....@gmail.com wrote:
> In 1989, I recognized that there should be a global free network for
> all the people to use to communicate. I was a mechanic at the time,
> and I distinctly remember the moment; I was spitting out a mouthful of
> antifreeze while pulling a hose off of a corroded radiator.

That is a bit funny. I can just imagine the 'aha' moment as you are
dousing yourself with radiator fluid.

You certainly weren't the first to have that epiphany. The concept of
a 'Free information exchange' actually goes back to a group of students
at MIT back in the early 1970s. And even before that, the Civilian
National Aeronautics and Space Administration had created an
environment where technology was freely and agressively shared. In
fact, from 1963 to 1969, when we were racing to reach the moon, there
were amazing breakthroughs in technology that were shared freely among
the scientific community. Ironically, there were also military
projects which were embedded in this technology that were top secret.
The flood of freely available information diverted attention from the
development of ICBMs, spy satellites, and other technologies often
considered 'UFOs' at the time.

In 1972, students at MIT wrote 'The hacker's ethic'. They advocated
the publication of technology in source code format. Keep in mind that
the patent office had ruled that algorythms could not be patented.
They had also ruled that since software programs were merely an
expression of an algorythm, software could not be patented. Software
couldn't be protected in binary form, nor could it be patented, until
1976.

In 1976, the laws were changed in the united states, taking effect in
1977. The interesting thing is that this was the year that Microsoft
used it's "License' to push OEM MITS to purcase 'per processor'
licenses. This concept, though expressed in many different ways as a
result of court rulings, has been the backbone of Microsoft's financial
structure.

> I was envisioning for myself the Internet; soon after that I pursed a
> career in computer communication. Today all of you benefit from the
> work of the Internet engineers.

My brother had a similar epiphany. He was busting tires and in a
moment of clarity during mindless activity, decided to put away his
monkey wrench and work on computers. He's retired now, but he
eventually wrote some computer programs for the army during Desert
Storm, and later got into customer service, providing telephone
support.

> But, unfortunately, the computer you use right now is licensed to the
> most controlling and wealthiest organization in the world: Microsoft.

Not by accident. Bill Gates had the vision of 'being to business what
heroin is to drug addicts' as far back as the late 1970s. By 1979,
several computers were powered by Microsoft BASIC in ROM, including the
Commodore PET, the TRS-80, and eventually the IBM PC.

> It may be difficult to conceive of how a computer company can be so
> controlling and dangerous unless you investigate the entire history of
> humanity and how information technology has been corrupted to implement
> control and cruelty from the very beginnings of humanity.
>
> The first machine was built from human parts: it was the Egyptian
> empire's slavery structure created to build edifices to its elite, so
> the elite could live forever in the after world. They had no machines
> as we know them today: they rolled blocks on logs; they killed most of
> their slaves and workers with the effects of rock mining through
> silicosis poisoning.

I think the current archeological theory is that they created extremely
smooth 'roads' coated with Olive Oil and slid the rocks up the hill in
great competitions. The young men volunteered. At home there wasn't
much work, there were lots of crops that didn't need much tilling.
Lots of idle young men is an invitation to various forms of gang
violence, by rounding up the teenagers and taking them to work on a
divine mission probably helped reduce the number of wars in northern
Africa, including Egyt and the Egyptian Empire.

Microsoft and Apple both established the concept of technology based
projects as the domain of the elite. The Open Source community, going
back as far as the MIT 'hackers', was more focused on a more
'democratic' use of technology.

On the other hand, technology was very carefully guarded, and it's
quite likely that those who were taught the 'sacred sciences',
including electricity, chemistry, biology, and architecture, were
probably enlisted into lifetime priesthood positions.

The irony is that today, corporations have taken the opposite view,
often cutting staffs of highly skilled workers, encouraging them to
spread technologies to other companies, as they hired sklled workers
from other companies - again adding breath and depth to the technology
base of each company.

The byproduct was that more and more technology HAD to be kept in Open
Source, simply because there was too much risk in using proprietary
technology which had been learned at one company and used at another
company.

In general your post is very interesting and really does hit the nail
on the head.

DFS

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May 15, 2006, 8:02:19 PM5/15/06
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Rex Ballard wrote:
> john....@gmail.com wrote:
>> In 1989, I recognized that there should be a global free network for
>> all the people to use to communicate. I was a mechanic at the time,
>> and I distinctly remember the moment; I was spitting out a mouthful
>> of antifreeze while pulling a hose off of a corroded radiator.
>
> That is a bit funny. I can just imagine the 'aha' moment as you are
> dousing yourself with radiator fluid.

<snip>

> In general your post is very interesting and really does hit the nail
> on the head.

You finally found a kindred spirit! But I think he's even nuttier than you.

It's funny to see how Linux/OSS attracts strange characters (actually, I
think MS attracts them but Linux/OSS corrals them).


Bobbie

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May 15, 2006, 8:07:57 PM5/15/06
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While performing an interpretive dance to Enya's Carribean Blue, DFS
exclaimed:

You're right about one thing, 'Linux does attract strange characters'.
How do we know this to be true?
Because you're here, right where you belong.

Welcome home DFS.

--
Bobbie the Triple Killer is at http://members.shaw.ca/bobbie4/index.htm
Today's posting comes via the numbers 0 & 1, Suse 10.0 and Pan Newsreader.
http://www.opensuse.org/Download


TheLetterK

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May 15, 2006, 8:35:35 PM5/15/06
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Is that a troll I hear wailing?

AZ Nomad

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May 15, 2006, 8:51:14 PM5/15/06
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well, duh! DumFuck (ingShit) is just another microsoft posterchild.
He'd be deserving of pitty of he wasn't such a twit. Mental cripples
can be jerks too.

DFS

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May 15, 2006, 9:51:34 PM5/15/06
to
Bobbie wrote:
> While performing an interpretive dance to Enya's Carribean Blue, DFS
> exclaimed:

>> It's funny to see how Linux/OSS attracts strange characters


>> (actually, I think MS attracts them but Linux/OSS corrals them).
>
> You're right about one thing, 'Linux does attract strange characters'.
> How do we know this to be true?
> Because you're here, right where you belong.
>
> Welcome home DFS.

Thanks. We need a spring cleaning, pronto!

William Poaster? plonk
chrisv? plonk
Roy Culley? plonk
Au79? plonk
Tatoo Vampire? plonk
Rick? plonk
Sinister Midget? plonk

There. The place is brighter already.

[H]omer

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May 15, 2006, 9:57:28 PM5/15/06
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On 15/05/2006 20:36, john....@gmail.com spake thusly:

> It may be difficult to conceive of how a computer company can be so
> controlling and dangerous unless you investigate the entire history
> of humanity and how information technology has been corrupted to
> implement control and cruelty from the very beginnings of humanity.

It's called Corporatism, and through global cooperation with other
corporate entities, ultimately leads to Corporate Imperialism. Globalism
is the most obvious current manifestation.

> Free and open information, such as GNU or open source, is referred to
> as being part of the public domain. The public domain originates
> with the wild lands that were available to everybody.

This is Marxism, the purest form of Socialism.

> At the center of information control today is Microsoft; we are all
> paying homage and cash to the modern control structure at this very
> moment while we attempt to undo the authoritarian control that is
> destroying our planet.

Microsoft holds the balance of power, not only because of its immense
wealth, but also because of the prevalence of it's products in society.
They have great influence, and use that influence to further their
ideals, which are, by and large, Corporatist.

> What is the solution ?? Linux is.

Information Technology is the key area in which Corporatism spreads its
influence, and as such, breaking that chain with the introduction of key
I.T. frameworks, software, licences, protocols, and policies, based on
open standards, may hopefully weaken that influence; preferably
destroying it.

I.T. is only one front of the battle however; the influence of
Corporatism affects all Industrial Society, and by association, all
society. For as long as there exists the ideology of financial profit,
society will be driven by greed, corruption and exploitation.

> Linux is a free operating system designed purely democratically and
> made available for the public. It is linked to the GNU philosophy
> and support organization, which is religiously opposed to the
> criminal control of computers and communication by the same people
> who are reducing our planet to the needs of corporate stockholders.
> While resolving the issues of information technology, the free
> software movement provides ideas which can be extended to all
> technology, especially in the areas of energy and transportation. A
> further extension of the philosophy can help us understand our
> unnecessary dependence on physical property.

I can see that you and I are going to get on *very* well indeed.

> The free and open software philosophies are not communist in any way,
> they supports free enterprise through sharing, through the high
> synergy and democratic developers of the public domain.

The fundamental principles are very close to Marxism though, and I have
no problem at all with that.

We are all born into this Global Corporatist society; how we choose to
live in it, is a matter of preference. I chose to not oppose it for a
long time, due to apathy and ignorance, and indeed profited financially
by it. I have Microsoft (and the Bush administration) to thank for
drawing my attention to the extent of corruption in our modern society,
and I will endeavour to use the tainted resources it has given me, to
oppose it.

--
K.
/* values of ß will give rise to dom! */

Fedora Core release 4 (Stentz) on sky, running kernel 2.6.16-1.2108_FC4
02:52:59 up 3 days, 11:43, 2 users, load average: 0.05, 0.02, 0.00

Rex Ballard

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May 15, 2006, 10:51:29 PM5/15/06
to
I notice you included only penginistas in your list.
These are posters who often provide interesting and sometimes even
valid input.

Then we have the WinTrolls, none of which you listed.

But I don't want to remove any of these 'characters' from the group.
The dialogue is entertaining at minimum, and often quite enlightening.

Keep on posting DFS, and all of the people he listed.

DFS

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May 15, 2006, 11:42:25 PM5/15/06
to
Rex Ballard wrote:
> I notice you included only penginistas in your list.
> These are posters who often provide interesting and sometimes even
> valid input.

I disagree. In 2 years, I've never seen Rick or chrisv make even one
interesting, thoughtful post. William Poaster: a joke that can't be taken
seriously. Maybe he's submitted a single relevant post in 2 years... maybe.
Roy Culley: 'begin 'ner who doesn't really care to discuss Linux either.
Au79: boring news regurgitator. Tatoo Vampire: foul-mouthed brat. Sinister
Midget: one-note, anti-MS bozo.

> Then we have the WinTrolls, none of which you listed.

There are no 'WinTroll' regulars worthy of killfiling (I refuse the title
WinTroll, as does Erik, Tim Smith, billwg, et al), but I've killfiled a
whole bunch of names that pop in once, or spout vulgarity or stupidity about
"Linux sucks". I killfile almost anyone who crossposts from any other group
(24.hour.helpdesk, etc), because they're not serious about discussing Linux
and/or they're just slinging mud. All 'begin 'ners are immediately
killfiled.


> But I don't want to remove any of these 'characters' from the group.
> The dialogue is entertaining at minimum, and often quite enlightening.

Vulgarity ala Au79 and Beowulf Trollhammer "fuckstick" and "fuckwad" etc. is
a waste of time. I bet chrisv posted "plonk" and nothing else more than 100
times. Why waste even 3 seconds clicking on his thread when it's the same
thing, over and over and over?

Heck, even though I don't much care for Linux/OSS software (not the kernel),
and I totally disagree with the idea of giving away software because you
hate MS so much, it has a chance to be the first realistic desktop
competitor to MS - ever. For that reason it's worth serious discussion and
analysis. Plus it's interesting as a David vs Goliath business phenomenon.
And it's interesting on various technical levels.

I'm sort of surprised it hasn't gained more market acceptance. I think it
will take a lot of money and marketing, which is and always will be in short
supply in an ecosystem built around the free sharing of code.

Linux as a "product" needs compelling organizations and entities and people
behind it. IBM and its money is a great start, but their promotion is
lackluster in my opinion. The adoption by supercomputer organizations is
good hype. But what would be fascinating is to see Linus Torvalds come out
from behind his rock and take on the role that needs to be filled: Linux
public point man. Maybe he's uncomfortable with that role, but if he wants
to see Linux takeoff it's my impression he could do more: be more quotable,
more visible, etc. Of course he has written a book (which I bought), and
that's a good start.

I don't think the general business-reading or computer-using public
associates Linux with a person, as they associate Bill Gates with Microsoft,
or Larry Ellison with Oracle, or Scott McNealy with Sun, etc. A story like
Linux could probably gain from a single goto person. Maybe it could be a
slimmed-down, cleaned up Richard Stallman, but in my mind the creator would
be first choice.


> Keep on posting DFS, and all of the people he listed.

Thanks. I will.

Sinister Midget

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May 16, 2006, 2:21:23 AM5/16/06
to
On 2006-05-15, john....@gmail.com <john....@gmail.com> posted something concerning:

> But, unfortunately, the computer you use right now is licensed to the
> most controlling and wealthiest organization in the world: Microsoft.

Not mine. Not my last one (actually it's last 3). Not my next one. Not
Mrs. Midget's, nor Sinister Jr's. Not the one in the basement.

The monsters you mention don't really exist on these premises. They're
nothing more than one of those scary movies on TV that we can change
the channel and forget about, or we can talk individually to others
about at our leisure. They're a figment of someone's imagination
around here.

At work is another story. So's Jr's school. Those are rented from the
Northwest Mafiosi. Those aren't our problems, though. Those are the
problems of the owners.

The formidable Mrs. Midget still escapes. She's taking classes right
now, and they all use Mac.

--
Behind every successful man is a woman. Behind her is his wife.
-- Groucho Marx

Message has been deleted

BearItAll

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May 16, 2006, 6:13:58 AM5/16/06
to
john....@gmail.com wrote:

> In 1989, I recognized that there should be a global free network for
> all the people to use to communicate. I was a mechanic at the time,
> and I distinctly remember the moment; I was spitting out a mouthful of
> antifreeze while pulling a hose off of a corroded radiator.
>

I think you didn't spit quite quickly enough.

> I was envisioning for myself the Internet; soon after that I pursed a
> career in computer communication. Today all of you benefit from the
> work of the Internet engineers.
>

Nup, we benefit from the work the military did. The need to communicate
brought us to where the internet is now.

> But, unfortunately, the computer you use right now is licensed to the
> most controlling and wealthiest organization in the world: Microsoft.
>

You know there is this thing going on in the computing world that doesn't
really belong here. 'MS are evil'. When in fact they are just a business.
Businesses come and go, where are the big names of 20 years ago, those you
saw on TV advert after advert, gone. Businesses come and go, as Microsoft
will disapear eventually too.

In 20 years time I bet there are posts in the vain of 'The evil Linux
barrons...'. Until what ever comes next happens.

> The first machine was built from human parts: it was the Egyptian
> empire's slavery structure created to build edifices to its elite, so
> the elite could live forever in the after world. They had no machines
> as we know them today: they rolled blocks on logs; they killed most of
> their slaves and workers with the effects of rock mining through
> silicosis poisoning.
>

It was the only labour available. Did you know that many of those were
volunteers? These people believed in what they were doing, they would
travel to find work at the Pyramids because and they were fed, no more
tyranical bosy farm owners telling them what to do, leaving them hungry
when the crops were poor, not sharing fairly when the crops were good. Much
better to go and build this thing for your God and have a full belly.

Its just a common myth to believe all of those people were pressed into
service. Some were sold to it by their village, or sent as representatives
of a village so that this new God would show them favour.

It's a simmilar misconception to the UK press gangs, most that were pressed
did so willingly. For a young man in the likes of Whitby, it was a fast
route to money in his pocket and his own fishing boat after his time in
service, it was a good life in comparison to many trades. If they didn't
want to be pressed they could carry papers of exclusion, provided that they
had some trade.

> This is a theme through humanity to the present-day blue collar worker.
> Even unions support the concept that the worker is part of the
> machine, to be used and broken for support of a system owned wholly by
> the elite. This concept is called human capital.
>

Who would you have do the work then, train animals perhaps? Someone has to
grow the food, someone has to distribute it, someone has to provide the
electricity that you used to run your computer so that you could post this
drivel.

The Elite? Who are they exactly, well the Elite are us, us that benefit from
being able to jump into our car, nip down to a supermarket in the
assumption that someone has filled the shelves with what ever we intend to
buy.

They isn't any 'them', 'them' is 'us'. If we say we are working for 'them'
we are really working for 'us'.

No one is born free, everyone is born naked and dependant into a world of
shared resources. The only reason you are alive today is because someone
took the trouble to take care of you for the first ten to fifteen years of
your life. Then it becomes your turn to put into the community, supporting
your own kids or the community. Taking what you need, leaving some for
others.

We Are the Elite, it is Us that all of this is about. So if you feel You are
being too greedy with resources then it is You that has to change. If you
feel that you are taking up a resource that could be better used elsewhere,
then it is up to you to see that that is done.

> The military works in a similar way, molding youth to become cannon
> fodder. At the center of it all, is the same control structure the
> they Egyptians built. Here in the US, direct descendants of the
> Egyptian edifice builders provide loyal support for the president and
> the war in Iraq; they are the Freemasons and the Shriners.
>

Does America still have conscription then? I thought that the US and UK
forces were volunteers. Career people, not too stupid to believe they will
not be sent to battle zones, maybe I'm wrong. Never mind then we still have
the alternative so no need to send anyone anywhere, will you be joining the
pro-atom-bomb movement too?


> Knowledge is treated exactly the same as real estate property. The
> globalist information protection organization, WIPO, defines this for
> us -- World Information Property Organization. They are committed to
> the acquisition of all technical knowledge and art into corporate
> portfolios, just as SONY owns the freedom lyrics of John Lennon.
>

Just business, businesses come and go. They are not world leaders, they are
only a shop.

> Free and open information, such as GNU or open source, is referred to
> as being part of the public domain. The public domain originates with
> the wild lands that were available to everybody. As an example the
> elite European families created estates by illegally absorbing the
> public lands to implement a form of slavery called serfdom.
>

The wild lands could not sustain the current population. Once we've eaten
the elephants and the locusts we'd be a bit stuck for something to eat.

> Colonialists in the America's did much the same, genociding the native
> tribes directly through murder, isolation, forced migration and
> disease. All the while, the colonialist information technology, as it
> was, allowed the expansionists to appear civilized and social through
> lies as they stole all the free land. Today, the acquisition of
> protected land through the process of eminent domain, allows municipal
> governments to destroy the last forests, installing the sub-divisions
> of suburban sprawl filled with the worst possible houses.
>

Nature has always done that, one species makes room for another. Survival of
the fittest. Seems cruel, but its the way we evolved so can't be all bad.

> At the center of information control today is Microsoft; we are all
> paying homage and cash to the modern control structure at this very
> moment while we attempt to undo the authoritarian control that is
> destroying our planet.
>

It's that 'them' business again. 'Them' are 'us'. There are many decisions
to be made in this world that are simply too important to be left to
governments to decide. In fact leaving such things to governments is
tantamount to doing nothing. Marching on governments over this, is still
doing nothing, because it isn't their job. It is our job, we decide what
the markets provide and what resources we use.

Anyone who does an unnecessary journey in a car, anyone who puts the heating
on when they isn't really need, anyone who throws a tin can into a mixed
trash can, anyone who throws an appliance out for no other reason than 'it
just doesn't go with the new decor', these are the ones who are destroying
our planet. It is 'us' not 'them'.

> What is the solution ?? Linux is.
>

Linux has absolutely nothing to do with what you are talking about. Linux is
just a part of the tool which is your computer.


JEDIDIAH

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May 16, 2006, 9:11:45 AM5/16/06
to
On 2006-05-16, BearItAll <sp...@rassler.co.uk> wrote:
> john....@gmail.com wrote:
>
>> In 1989, I recognized that there should be a global free network for
>> all the people to use to communicate. I was a mechanic at the time,
>> and I distinctly remember the moment; I was spitting out a mouthful of
>> antifreeze while pulling a hose off of a corroded radiator.
>>
>
> I think you didn't spit quite quickly enough.
>
>> I was envisioning for myself the Internet; soon after that I pursed a
>> career in computer communication. Today all of you benefit from the
>> work of the Internet engineers.
>>
>
> Nup, we benefit from the work the military did. The need to communicate
> brought us to where the internet is now.
>
>> But, unfortunately, the computer you use right now is licensed to the
>> most controlling and wealthiest organization in the world: Microsoft.
>>
>
> You know there is this thing going on in the computing world that doesn't
> really belong here. 'MS are evil'. When in fact they are just a business.

This is an attempt to gloss over a very important detail. Yes,
Microsoft is "just a business". However, they are also an entity subject
to the law and also part of a marketplace that it is everyone's interest
to keep healthy.

It's also useful to acknowledge that some companies are infact
more evil than others. Some will actually pay lip service to things like
ethics and playing well with others. Some will actually put this into
action. Ignoring the fact that P&G or the Corleone family would immediately
kill you if they thought they could profit sufficiently from it and also
get away with it is not something to trivialize.

> Businesses come and go, where are the big names of 20 years ago, those you
> saw on TV advert after advert, gone. Businesses come and go, as Microsoft
> will disapear eventually too.
>
> In 20 years time I bet there are posts in the vain of 'The evil Linux
> barrons...'. Until what ever comes next happens.

You need to work out the mechanics of that first.

[deletia]

However, you are still perpetrating the blatantly false idea that
all corporate entities are similarly evil. Although they are all prone to
such behaivor. All companies are ultimately MOBS in the "rioting mob"
sense of the word. Corporations specifically exist to shield their members
from responsibility. The end result is a group that is fixated on itself
while being disconnected from the outside world and the effects of it's
actions.

Glossing that over and allowing corporations (of all sorts) to just
blindly run amok is hardly useful. Microsoft is certainly not alone. It isn't
even a very remarkable example of corporate evil. However, it does stand as a
useful warning against the genuine sharks out there.

Those do some serious, lasting, corporeal damage.

--
Apple: Because a large harddrive is for power users.
|||
/ | \

BearItAll

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May 16, 2006, 11:29:47 AM5/16/06
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JEDIDIAH wrote:

> On 2006-05-16, BearItAll <sp...@rassler.co.uk> wrote:
>> john....@gmail.com wrote:
>>
>>> In 1989, I recognized that there should be a global free network for
>>> all the people to use to communicate. I was a mechanic at the time,
>>> and I distinctly remember the moment; I was spitting out a mouthful of
>>> antifreeze while pulling a hose off of a corroded radiator.
>>>
>>
>> I think you didn't spit quite quickly enough.
>>
>>> I was envisioning for myself the Internet; soon after that I pursed a
>>> career in computer communication. Today all of you benefit from the
>>> work of the Internet engineers.
>>>
>>
>> Nup, we benefit from the work the military did. The need to communicate
>> brought us to where the internet is now.
>>
>>> But, unfortunately, the computer you use right now is licensed to the
>>> most controlling and wealthiest organization in the world: Microsoft.
>>>
>>
>> You know there is this thing going on in the computing world that doesn't
>> really belong here. 'MS are evil'. When in fact they are just a business.
>
> This is an attempt to gloss over a very important detail. Yes,
> Microsoft is "just a business". However, they are also an entity subject
> to the law and also part of a marketplace that it is everyone's interest
> to keep healthy.
>

MS grew beyond anyones expectations. They were left with a huge animal that
needed feeding, shareholders. They have to find way of continued growth
(growth is the only thing that feeds the markets) in a market that became
saturated. Hardware suppliers felt it, MS felt it. MS were in a position of
being able to go into the famous dirty tricks, which we all know showed a
level of stupidity because they eventually ate up the inovation centres.
That was stupid, but not necessarily evil.

IBM, HP. Sun are all interested in Linux because it is the one that has the
greatest growth potential, they are businesses too, they are not in Linux
because 'its nice and can be gotten for free', they are in it because they
too have shareholders that need feeding. But the fact that they are out to
make a profit is again not evil, nor is it anti-Linux.

> action. Ignoring the fact that P&G or the Corleone family would
> immediately kill you if they thought they could profit sufficiently from
> it and also get away with it is not something to trivialize.
>

That is criminal, not business. It's the job of the legal authorities to
sort that out. The question is, why haven't they sorted it out, probably
many answers to that but one answer that certainly has some truth in it is
that in two countries of this world citizens have a sort of sordid pride in
their godfather societies. But still, nothing to do with MS or Linux so
probably best left for another news group.

>> Businesses come and go, where are the big names of 20 years ago, those
>> you saw on TV advert after advert, gone. Businesses come and go, as
>> Microsoft will disapear eventually too.
>>
>> In 20 years time I bet there are posts in the vain of 'The evil Linux
>> barrons...'. Until what ever comes next happens.
>
> You need to work out the mechanics of that first.
>
> [deletia]
>
> However, you are still perpetrating the blatantly false idea that
> all corporate entities are similarly evil. Although they are all prone to
> such behaivor. All companies are ultimately MOBS in the "rioting mob"
> sense of the word. Corporations specifically exist to shield their members
> from responsibility. The end result is a group that is fixated on itself
> while being disconnected from the outside world and the effects of it's
> actions.
>

I have Never said anything like 'all corporate entities are similarly evil'
niether have I said that 'ANY corporate entities are evil'. That comes
entirely from your head and has nothing at all to do with what I posted.

The part about 'The evil Linux barrons...' was a parrot-like-phrase in the
context of where it was used of those that are currently saying such things
about MS. I tend to assum a level of intelligence from anyone who reads my
posts, some where around the level of age 10 and upwards would have spotted
it for what it was I reccon.

john....@gmail.com

unread,
May 16, 2006, 3:42:09 PM5/16/06
to
I am really glad this got so many responses, albeit some from many who
couldn't resist pointing to antifreeze poisoning; this is why I don't
work in the computer field anymore: too many who don't use the
intelligence they were born with.

Please note that the thing that is new here, is that the information
technology issue goes so far back in history.

Absolutely nothing has changed, because the exact same types of people
are doing the exact same things in the exact same way. Creating a
machine out of people with a control structure was the only genius of
the early elite. They, like Microsoft, made no substantial technical
contributions. We democratic developers do that. The authoritarian
technology system that Microsoft now leads simply co-opts the
technology, meddling with it until it fails, forcing them to steal more
technology.

I find it odd to hear linux users protecting Microsoft (criticizing me
for calling MS evil.)

Thank you, Homer for your support, but as I said, you cannot go back
far enough. It's like the plot to Stargate.

You would probably agree that every major innovation has been
accompanied by a stock swindle, the Internet being the most recent and
most painful for many of us.

The swindles precede stocks, though. Watt, inventor of the steam
engine got robbed through the patent courts by the mine owners that
used it to pump water from their shafts; he barely collected any money
at all. The inventor of textile's flying shuttle likewise got robbed
despite his patents. Both these inventions were revolutionary and
affect us directly today.

While working on Wall Street, I always wondered what manual the creeps
all around me were working from. As it turns out, they inherited human
systems control information developed during the beginnings of
civilization probably from their families. If I had been introduced to
these concepts as a child, during freer times, I would have laughed.

Rick

unread,
May 16, 2006, 9:40:11 PM5/16/06
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On Mon, 15 May 2006 23:42:25 -0400, DFS wrote:

> Rex Ballard wrote:
>> I notice you included only penginistas in your list. These are posters
>> who often provide interesting and sometimes even valid input.
>
> I disagree. In 2 years, I've never seen Rick or chrisv make even one

> interesting, thoughtful post. (snip)

That's because you are blind.

--
Rick
<http://ricks-place.tripod.com/sound/2cents.wav>

Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz

unread,
May 18, 2006, 9:33:53 AM5/18/06
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begin In <1147721807....@u72g2000cwu.googlegroups.com>, on
05/15/2006

at 12:36 PM, john....@gmail.com said:

>But, unfortunately, the computer you use right now is licensed to the
>most controlling and wealthiest organization in the world:
>Microsoft.

No way, José. I run Linux on one machine and OS/2 on another; I don't
use no stinking m$ malware. M$ orifice? Don't have it, don't want it;
StarOffice and OpenOffice are better options.

--
Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz, SysProg and JOAT <http://patriot.net/~shmuel>

Unsolicited bulk E-mail subject to legal action. I reserve the
right to publicly post or ridicule any abusive E-mail. Reply to
domain Patriot dot net user shmuel+news to contact me. Do not
reply to spam...@library.lspace.org

Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz

unread,
May 18, 2006, 9:38:30 AM5/18/06
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begin In <1147808529.1...@y43g2000cwc.googlegroups.com>, on
05/16/2006

at 12:42 PM, john....@gmail.com said:

>too many who don't use the
>intelligence they were born with.

Indeed; they post responses to Usenet without attribution lines or
quotes of context.

>I find it odd to hear linux users protecting Microsoft (criticizing
>me for calling MS evil.)

M$ *is* evil, but there are other reasons to criticize you. Your
articles were doctrinaire and patronizing.

john....@gmail.com

unread,
May 18, 2006, 8:24:38 PM5/18/06
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This precisely why I dont work in computers any more

>From his web page:

If you have been receiving bigoted e-mail attacking the Roman Catholic
Church and with a reference to my web site, it is a vicious forgery by
a limb of Satan

Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz

unread,
May 20, 2006, 8:21:03 PM5/20/06
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begin In <1147998278....@38g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>, on
05/18/2006

at 05:24 PM, john....@gmail.com said:

>If you have been receiving bigoted e-mail attacking the Roman
>Catholic Church and with a reference to my web site, it is a vicious
>forgery by a limb of Satan

After I reported a SDA[1] spammer to his provider, the scum started
giving references to my web site. I put up all of his contact
information and suggested that recipients complain. You might want to
do the same.

[1] Without authorization from the church authorities. Some
legitimate SDA officials mention ed the possibility of legal
action against him, but I don't know if anything came of it.

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