Asus - Gives up on Linux and phases it out of it's consumer products
Ezekiel
27 May, 2009
At today's ASUS product showcase in Sydney, a bunch of media representatives
where given a taste of the company's latest and greatest notebooks,
including the new range of Eee PC netbooks.
The entire range was there, from ultra-portable, touch screen netbooks to
high-end, quad core Lamborghinis (I'm not joking). Even Windows Vista was
there.
There was only one thing missing - Linux.
At the event I was speaking with ASUS Australia consumer market product
manager Gordon Kerr who said Linux is likely to be phased out at the company
as a pre-installed operating system on its notebook products.
</quote>
http://www.computerworld.com.au/article/304693/has_asus_all_given_up_linux
Hadron
Wow, and check out this comment:
,----
| Nowadays, according to Kerr, less than 5 per cent of ASUS netbooks ship
| with Linux and the venerable Windows XP is the predominant operating
| system (again!).
|
| “People bought the original seven- and eight-inch Eee PCs for a computer
| to give to the kids,” Kerr said seriously.
|
| “If you want the full functionality of a notebook you are going to go
| with Windows.”
`----
But wait, Asus are also doing something that the COLA loonies tell us is
impossible:-
,----
| What I found particularly astonishing about ASUS commitment to Windows
| is how the company is prepared to develop new user interfaces, or
| “themes”, on top of windows for its touch screen devices in the same way
| it did for Linux.
`----
So that's Lenovo and Asus abandoning Linux. Not good.
--
In view of all the deadly computer viruses that have been spreading
lately, Weekend Update would like to remind you: when you link up to
another computer, you’re linking up to every computer that that
computer has ever linked up to. — Dennis Miller
Ezekiel
"Hadron" <hadro...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:gvjhri$s9d$1...@news.eternal-september.org...
There's still some manufacturers like Dell and HP that seem to be commited
to Linux. They have no political agenda in this... they simply want to ship
hardware and make money. We'll have to see how that works out for them.
> But wait, Asus are also doing something that the COLA loonies tell us is
> impossible:-
>
> ,----
> | What I found particularly astonishing about ASUS commitment to Windows
> | is how the company is prepared to develop new user interfaces, or
> | "themes", on top of windows for its touch screen devices in the same way
> | it did for Linux.
> `----
Most of the COLA loonies don't know a thing about Windows or don't know
nearly as much as they think they know. There have been dozens of
ridiculously wrong claims made so another wrong one is hardly surprising.
> So that's Lenovo and Asus abandoning Linux. Not good.
My opinion is that there were two main problems selling Linux netbooks.
First they weren't selling enough of them and the ones that were sold... the
return rate was too high. Most of the articles that I've read regarding
Windows 7 (real articles... not COLA "advocatey" hyperbole) have been very
positive. I think that Linux netbooks had their window of opportunity during
the Vista fiasco but that window is now starting to close.
GPS
That's disappointing. I was actually thinking about buying one. I suppose
I could install Linux or a BSD on there, but my understanding is that some
of their hardware has in the past required some unique software IIRC for the
ACPI subsystem.
I wonder if they can provide more details than in that article about the
reasons why Linux wasn't as popular on the netbooks. I assume that they
used focus groups, and other common techniques to discover what the problem
was. That research could be valuable for the desktop Linux groups to learn
where they have gone wrong.
I think it's important that we don't blame ASUS, because they invested in
Linux. To make the best of a bad situation we should learn from what has
happened, so that this doesn't happen again.
-George
Andrew Halliwell
> My opinion is that there were two main problems selling Linux netbooks.
> First they weren't selling enough of them and the ones that were sold... the
> return rate was too high. Most of the articles that I've read regarding
> Windows 7 (real articles... not COLA "advocatey" hyperbole) have been very
> positive. I think that Linux netbooks had their window of opportunity during
> the Vista fiasco but that window is now starting to close.
The irony is you think that's a failure of linux and not the netbook
manufacturers. All of whom used oversimplified front ends for the linux
version rather than a proper well thought out distro with a decent window
manager.
--
| spi...@freenet.co.uk | |
| Andrew Halliwell BSc | "ARSE! GERLS!! DRINK! DRINK! DRINK!!!" |
| in | "THAT WOULD BE AN ECUMENICAL MATTER!...FECK!!!! |
| Computer Science | - Father Jack in "Father Ted" |
Andrew Halliwell
>
> That's disappointing. I was actually thinking about buying one. I suppose
> I could install Linux or a BSD on there, but my understanding is that some
> of their hardware has in the past required some unique software IIRC for the
> ACPI subsystem.
>
> I wonder if they can provide more details than in that article about the
> reasons why Linux wasn't as popular on the netbooks. I assume that they
> used focus groups, and other common techniques to discover what the problem
> was. That research could be valuable for the desktop Linux groups to learn
> where they have gone wrong.
They probably went wrong by having a shite front end.
Or did windows have a similar one?
> I think it's important that we don't blame ASUS, because they invested in
> Linux. To make the best of a bad situation we should learn from what has
> happened, so that this doesn't happen again.
Let's not forget that ASUS is STILL investing in linux.
Maybe no longer on their not-netbooks-anymore-just-underpowered-laptops.
But their higher end motherboards are all going to feature a linux instant
on bios thing.
--
| spi...@freenet.co.uk | "I'm alive!!! I can touch! I can taste! |
| Andrew Halliwell BSc | I can SMELL!!! KRYTEN!!! Unpack Rachel and |
| in | get out the puncture repair kit!" |
| Computer Science | Arnold Judas Rimmer- Red Dwarf |
Ezekiel
"GPS" <geor...@xmission.com> wrote in message
news:gvjism$tf5$1...@news.xmission.com...
> Ezekiel wrote:
>
>> <quote>
>> 27 May, 2009
>>
>> At today's ASUS product showcase in Sydney, a bunch of media
>> representatives where given a taste of the company's latest and greatest
>> notebooks, including the new range of Eee PC netbooks.
>>
>> The entire range was there, from ultra-portable, touch screen netbooks to
>> high-end, quad core Lamborghinis (I'm not joking). Even Windows Vista was
>> there.
>>
>> There was only one thing missing - Linux.
>>
>> At the event I was speaking with ASUS Australia consumer market product
>> manager Gordon Kerr who said Linux is likely to be phased out at the
>> company as a pre-installed operating system on its notebook products.
>> </quote>
>>
>>
>> http://www.computerworld.com.au/article/304693/has_asus_all_given_up_linux
>
> That's disappointing. I was actually thinking about buying one. I
> suppose
> I could install Linux or a BSD on there, but my understanding is that some
> of their hardware has in the past required some unique software IIRC for
> the
> ACPI subsystem.
I have a Dell Mini-9 that is still running the version of Ubuntu that it
shipped with. I don't know how many custom or specialized drivers Dell has
for it but all of the hardware works great including ACPI and the various
sleep/standby modes. But would a stock generic distro work on the Mini-9
without lots of tweaking???? I'm in no hurry to find out because what I
have already works.
> I wonder if they can provide more details than in that article about the
> reasons why Linux wasn't as popular on the netbooks. I assume that they
> used focus groups, and other common techniques to discover what the
> problem
> was. That research could be valuable for the desktop Linux groups to
> learn
> where they have gone wrong.
I don't know how much research they put into why they weren't selling. I did
read previously that the return rates were high because many consumers who
bought this were expecting a Windows machine. At the end of the day Asus
just wants to sell hardware and generate a profit. If (according to them)
only 5% of sales are Linux then I can't blame them for this move. I don't
know if they investigated why the Windows to Linux ratio was so one-sided or
if they simply decided to go with the product that's selling better.
> I think it's important that we don't blame ASUS, because they invested in
> Linux. To make the best of a bad situation we should learn from what has
> happened, so that this doesn't happen again.
I think the last paragraph in the article summarizes it rather nicely:
<quote>
With companies like Intel and Dell putting their weight behind Linux on
netbooks the future looks promising, but the cruel irony remains - the
company that brought it to life has now abandoned it.
</quote>
Ezekiel
"Andrew Halliwell" <spi...@ponder.sky.com> wrote in message
news:fa00f6-...@ponder.sky.com...
> Ezekiel <nowher...@zeke.com> wrote:
>> My opinion is that there were two main problems selling Linux netbooks.
>> First they weren't selling enough of them and the ones that were sold...
>> the
>> return rate was too high. Most of the articles that I've read regarding
>> Windows 7 (real articles... not COLA "advocatey" hyperbole) have been
>> very
>> positive. I think that Linux netbooks had their window of opportunity
>> during
>> the Vista fiasco but that window is now starting to close.
>
> The irony is you think that's a failure of linux and not the netbook
> manufacturers. All of whom used oversimplified front ends for the linux
> version rather than a proper well thought out distro with a decent window
> manager.
Or the irony is that you think that it's a failure of the netbook
manufacturers and not a failure of Linux with the general consumer.
Ezekiel
> GPS <geor...@xmission.com> wrote:
>>
>> I think it's important that we don't blame ASUS, because they invested in
>> Linux. To make the best of a bad situation we should learn from what has
>> happened, so that this doesn't happen again.
>
> Let's not forget that ASUS is STILL investing in linux.
> Maybe no longer on their not-netbooks-anymore-just-underpowered-laptops.
> But their higher end motherboards are all going to feature a linux instant
> on bios thing.
Asus has been talking about that instant on Linux BIOS since 2007. It hasn't
had much of an affect on anything has it?
Tony(UK)
I am posting this from my test machine running Windows 7 RC1. Whilst I
still have a great interest in the development of Linux, I regret to say
that this version of Windows is superior to any Linux distribution I have
used.
This, coupled with the infighting within factions of the Linux community
and the utter stupidity of some people in this newsgroup, stretch the whole
'Freedom' thing to the point of breaking. I can see why companies are
abandoning Linux - the principles are right, the personalities wrong.
I have to think long and hard about where to go and what to do next.
chrisv
>The irony is you think that's a failure of linux and not the netbook
>manufacturers. All of whom used oversimplified front ends for the linux
>version rather than a proper well thought out distro with a decent window
>manager.
Yeah, that's one issue where I almost agree with the Quack asshole. I
mean, I can understand why they made the decision they did (to offer
the "dumbed down, obviously not Windows" interface), but I don't think
that should have been the only available option. They should have had
an easy "change this setting and you get real Linux" option.
William Poaster
of the trolls Tony(UK) was heard to say:
<shrug> That's entirely up to you, of course.
However the Ezekiel wintroll trotted out the M$ line about Linux netbooks,
that "the ones that were sold the return rate was too high." That has
been denied by the *manufacturers*, but their rebuttals were not given as
much coverage as M$ damaging FUD.
Hewlett-Packard have just introduced a new range of laptops aimed at
businesses & installed with SUSE Linux. Seems they aren't taking much
notice of the "Linux window closing".
--
Surely you are not comparing the
non-existent Linux (at that time)
with Windows 98?
Hadron: Message-ID: <npk5rvz...@homelinux.net>
GPS
What sources are you basing that on?
source:
http://blog.laptopmag.com/msi-wind-coming-to-major-retailer-new-models-
coming-soon
"They start playing around with Linux and start realizing that it’s not what
they are used to. They don’t want to spend time to learn it so they bring it
back to the store. The return rate is at least four times higher for Linux
netbooks than Windows XP netbooks."
>
> Hewlett-Packard have just introduced a new range of laptops aimed at
> businesses & installed with SUSE Linux. Seems they aren't taking much
> notice of the "Linux window closing".
Hmm, and I recall that Linux Journal had a video review of some of the HP
hardware. They are targeting Windows primarily in the advertising though.
There were some problems with the HP hardware and Linux.
source: http://www.linuxjournal.com/video/review-hp-2133-mini-note
Take note of the many disappointed users that responded to that article with
a comment.
It's sad that HP can't get stable drivers for Linux for video or wireless,
when they are putting together the hardware. Shawn Powers (in that video)
talks about using ndiswrapper (to use a Windows driver) :(
-George
amicus_curious
"Ezekiel" <nowher...@zeke.com> wrote in message
news:gvjksc$lk8$1...@news.eternal-september.org...
supply a profitable product using Linux. .That has failed to happen and the
OEMs continue to sell XP machines rather than Linux machines. Since simply
selling machines is the goal of the OEMs, their goal is being met. Selling
Linux machines was the desired goal of the Linux advocate and that goal is
not met. So the failure was a Linux advocacy failure in not convincing the
consumers to buy nor the manufacturers to produce these machines.
White Spirit
> I am posting this from my test machine running Windows 7 RC1. Whilst I
> still have a great interest in the development of Linux, I regret to say
> that this version of Windows is superior to any Linux distribution I have
> used.
If it works for you, use it. It's your choice. Even when Windows has
been stable on machines I've used (which is overwhelmingly not the
case), I just prefer the Linux/Unix way of doing things. Let us know
how it works out six months down the line, though ;)
> This, coupled with the infighting within factions of the Linux community
> and the utter stupidity of some people in this newsgroup, stretch the whole
> 'Freedom' thing to the point of breaking.
The infighting is typically fringe disagreements that don't affect the
whole. I tend to ignore them and focus on more positive contributions
such as what is being newly developed and improved. I certainly
wouldn't allow Usenet shenanigans to influence my choice of OS.
> I can see why companies are
> abandoning Linux - the principles are right, the personalities wrong.
> I have to think long and hard about where to go and what to do next.
If the 'personalities' are wrong, find other people to discuss your
interest with. To be fair, however, this group is under attack from
people who wish to prevent its purpose. The problem isn't Linux
personalities here but there are many other Linux newsgroups that have a
significantly better signal to noise ratio that you might want to try
(assuming you haven't done so).
Chris Ahlstrom
this bit o' wisdom:
Oddly enough, that article (or the comments) seemed to indicate that ASUS
was going to paper over /Windows/ with a dumbed-down interface, too.
--
Persons attempting to find a motive in this narrative will be prosecuted;
persons attempting to find a moral in it will be banished; persons attempting
to find a plot in it will be shot. By Order of the Author
-- Mark Twain, "Tom Sawyer"
Chris Ahlstrom
this bit o' wisdom:
> On Wed, 27 May 2009 10:31:47 -0400, Ezekiel wrote:
>
>> "Hadron" <hadro...@gmail.com> wrote in message
>> news:gvjhri$s9d$1...@news.eternal-september.org...
>>> "Ezekiel" <nowher...@zeke.com> writes:
>>
>> Most of the COLA loonies don't know a thing about Windows or don't know
>> nearly as much as they think they know. There have been dozens of
>> ridiculously wrong claims made so another wrong one is hardly surprising.
>>
>>> So that's Lenovo and Asus abandoning Linux. Not good.
>>
>> My opinion is that there were two main problems selling Linux netbooks.
>> First they weren't selling enough of them and the ones that were sold... the
>> return rate was too high. Most of the articles that I've read regarding
>> Windows 7 (real articles... not COLA "advocatey" hyperbole) have been very
>> positive. I think that Linux netbooks had their window of opportunity during
>> the Vista fiasco but that window is now starting to close.
>
> I am posting this from my test machine running Windows 7 RC1. Whilst I
> still have a great interest in the development of Linux, I regret to say
> that this version of Windows is superior to any Linux distribution I have
> used.
How so, Tony?
Faster?
Better desktop? More eye-candy?
Better networking and transmission speed?
No DRM?
More applications installed?
> This, coupled with the infighting within factions of the Linux community
> and the utter stupidity of some people in this newsgroup, stretch the whole
> 'Freedom' thing to the point of breaking. I can see why companies are
> abandoning Linux - the principles are right, the personalities wrong.
> I have to think long and hard about where to go and what to do next.
You do that.
--
The difference between a Miracle and a Fact is exactly the difference
between a mermaid and a seal.
-- Mark Twain
Chris Ahlstrom
this bit o' wisdom:
> Tony(UK) wrote:
>
>> I can see why companies are
>> abandoning Linux - the principles are right, the personalities wrong.
>> I have to think long and hard about where to go and what to do next.
>
> If the 'personalities' are wrong, find other people to discuss your
> interest with. To be fair, however, this group is under attack from
> people who wish to prevent its purpose. The problem isn't Linux
> personalities here but there are many other Linux newsgroups that have a
> significantly better signal to noise ratio that you might want to try
> (assuming you haven't done so).
Exactly. This newsgroup is swamped with assholes (DFS, Hadron, Flatfish,
Snit, The Bee, Clogwog, Ezekiel) whose sole purpose is to counter any good
postings about Linux with invective, insults, discouragement, and
pro-Microsoft astroturfing.
I'm surprised you don't realize this, Tony.
--
Today is National Existential Ennui Awareness Day.
Matt
> Let's not forget that ASUS is STILL investing in linux.
> Maybe no longer on their not-netbooks-anymore-just-underpowered-laptops.
> But their higher end motherboards are all going to feature a linux instant
> on bios thing.
Hadron
And want a really good laugh? OK:
,----
| New versions of Asus motherboards don't come with Splashtop preinstalled
| (exception, the P6T Deluxe). You have to use a CD that includes a
| Windows-only based installer. Also, you are required to have a Windows
| partition to store 500 MB of files, which has to be a SATA drive defined
| as IDE (no support for AHCI).[9] If one doesn't have a Windows-based
| machine, it is possible to install Splashtop on a USB key, from the
| sources
`----
GreyCloud
> On Wed, 27 May 2009 10:31:47 -0400, Ezekiel wrote:
>
>> "Hadron" <hadro...@gmail.com> wrote in message
>> news:gvjhri$s9d$1...@news.eternal-september.org...
>>> "Ezekiel" <nowher...@zeke.com> writes:
>>>
>> Most of the COLA loonies don't know a thing about Windows or don't know
>> nearly as much as they think they know. There have been dozens of
>> ridiculously wrong claims made so another wrong one is hardly surprising.
>>
>>
>>> So that's Lenovo and Asus abandoning Linux. Not good.
>> My opinion is that there were two main problems selling Linux netbooks.
>> First they weren't selling enough of them and the ones that were sold... the
>> return rate was too high. Most of the articles that I've read regarding
>> Windows 7 (real articles... not COLA "advocatey" hyperbole) have been very
>> positive. I think that Linux netbooks had their window of opportunity during
>> the Vista fiasco but that window is now starting to close.
>
> I am posting this from my test machine running Windows 7 RC1. Whilst I
> still have a great interest in the development of Linux, I regret to say
> that this version of Windows is superior to any Linux distribution I have
> used.
For now. Wait until the 'for sale version' comes out. Things will get
changed
and you won't like it.
--
"It is impossible to defeat an ignorant man in argument."
William G. McAdoo.
American Government official (1863-1941).
chrisv
> Tony(UK) belched:
>>
>> I am posting this from my test machine running Windows 7 RC1. Whilst I
>> still have a great interest in the development of Linux, I regret to say
>> that this version of Windows is superior to any Linux distribution I have
>> used.
>
>How so, Tony?
>
>Faster?
>
>Better desktop? More eye-candy?
>
>Better networking and transmission speed?
>
>No DRM?
>
>More applications installed?
An animated Sweaty Balmer throws chairs during file searches.
JEDIDIAH
>
> "Ezekiel" <nowher...@zeke.com> wrote in message
> news:gvjksc$lk8$1...@news.eternal-september.org...
>>
>> "Andrew Halliwell" <spi...@ponder.sky.com> wrote in message
>> news:fa00f6-...@ponder.sky.com...
>>> Ezekiel <nowher...@zeke.com> wrote:
>>>> My opinion is that there were two main problems selling Linux netbooks.
>>>> First they weren't selling enough of them and the ones that were sold...
>>>> the
>>>> return rate was too high. Most of the articles that I've read regarding
>>>> Windows 7 (real articles... not COLA "advocatey" hyperbole) have been
>>>> very
>>>> positive. I think that Linux netbooks had their window of opportunity
>>>> during
>>>> the Vista fiasco but that window is now starting to close.
>>>
>>> The irony is you think that's a failure of linux and not the netbook
>>> manufacturers. All of whom used oversimplified front ends for the linux
>>> version rather than a proper well thought out distro with a decent window
>>> manager.
>>
>> Or the irony is that you think that it's a failure of the netbook
>> manufacturers and not a failure of Linux with the general consumer.
>>
> One has to define what failed here. In commercial terms, the goal was to
> supply a profitable product using Linux. .That has failed to happen and the
The biggest OEM to try has succeeded and continues to sell Linux
boxes of various kinds from the cheapest netbooks to large enterprise
servers.
[deletia]
--
If it were really about "being good", then Microsoft would |||
have been put out of business by Apple before the first line of / | \
the Linux kernel was ever written.
Erik Funkenbusch
> Ezekiel <nowher...@zeke.com> wrote:
>> My opinion is that there were two main problems selling Linux netbooks.
>> First they weren't selling enough of them and the ones that were sold... the
>> return rate was too high. Most of the articles that I've read regarding
>> Windows 7 (real articles... not COLA "advocatey" hyperbole) have been very
>> positive. I think that Linux netbooks had their window of opportunity during
>> the Vista fiasco but that window is now starting to close.
>
> The irony is you think that's a failure of linux and not the netbook
> manufacturers. All of whom used oversimplified front ends for the linux
> version rather than a proper well thought out distro with a decent window
> manager.
Could that be because they saw Linux as too complicated for their customers
and wanted to try and make it easier to use?
Even Nokia does this on their much applauded tablets.
Snit
5/27/09 9:47 AM:
By all means, show *one* example of my doing as you accuse.
But you won't.
You can't.
Not only do not I not "counter good postings about Linux", I welcome them.
What I do not welcome, and what I do sometimes counter, are *lies* about
Linux or, as you do above - about myself. For people to deny the problems
with Linux is wrong - it sets people up with false expectations and
*discourages* long term use, even if it gets someone to try it.
Linux has many strengths. It also has many weaknesses. Be honest about
both... do not just lash out and lie about those who speak honestly about
Linux, as you do in regards to me, above.
--
[INSERT .SIG HERE]
chrisv
>Could that be because they saw Linux as too complicated for their customers
Could it be that Windows is just as fricken complicated to use, if not
worse, but has the advantage that most everyone has already invested
countless hours (or years) in learning to deal with it?
RickyBobby
Three things come to mind...
Microsoft Office
Quicken
printers
Once you get past the internet those are the other three legs that hold up
the chair.
One can rant on about the nobility of GNU/open source/Linux/freedom/equality
and all that lot forever but when Junior needs to print out his homework he
needs a printer that functions.
RickyBobby
I can tell the reasons. Microsoft Office, Quicken, and printers.
Ezekiel
"chrisv" <chr...@nospam.invalid> wrote in message
news:q70r15pj126qsbtn4...@4ax.com...
Windows is just as complicated but has the advantage (as you mention) that
people already spent years learning it.
Are you going to dismiss this as somehow being irrelevant? Because it
certainly isn't and most people have no interest in learning how to use a
new operating system. It's basically no different from various alternative
keyboards (chorded, Dvorak, etc) which while they have their merits... are
of no interest to the general consumer who will continue using QWERTY
keyboards despite it's imperfections.
Erik Funkenbusch
I remember 10+ years ago, some companies like Packard Bell would put these
simplified front ends on Windows machines. It seemed to work for them.
Ezekiel
"Snit" <use...@gallopinginsanity.com> wrote in message
news:C642CF1E.31E29%use...@gallopinginsanity.com...
> Chris Ahlstrom stated in post 0YdTl.47857$19.4...@bignews2.bellsouth.net
> on
> 5/27/09 9:47 AM:
>
>> After takin' a swig o' grog, White Spirit belched out
>> this bit o' wisdom:
>>
>>> Tony(UK) wrote:
>>>
>>>> I can see why companies are
>>>> abandoning Linux - the principles are right, the personalities wrong.
>>>> I have to think long and hard about where to go and what to do next.
>>>
>>> If the 'personalities' are wrong, find other people to discuss your
>>> interest with. To be fair, however, this group is under attack from
>>> people who wish to prevent its purpose. The problem isn't Linux
>>> personalities here but there are many other Linux newsgroups that have a
>>> significantly better signal to noise ratio that you might want to try
>>> (assuming you haven't done so).
>>
>> Exactly. This newsgroup is swamped with assholes (DFS, Hadron, Flatfish,
>> Snit, The Bee, Clogwog, Ezekiel) whose sole purpose is to counter any
>> good
>> postings about Linux with invective, insults, discouragement, and
>> pro-Microsoft astroturfing.
>>
>> I'm surprised you don't realize this, Tony.
>
> By all means, show *one* example of my doing as you accuse.
>
> But you won't.
>
> You can't.
It's interesting that anyone who posts a dissenting opinion or actual inject
a dose of reality (as opposed to the ridiculous distortion of the facts that
Spamowitz posts) is an a-hole and is viewed as an attacker and opponent of
Linux.
> Not only do not I not "counter good postings about Linux", I welcome them.
> What I do not welcome, and what I do sometimes counter, are *lies* about
> Linux or, as you do above - about myself. For people to deny the problems
> with Linux is wrong - it sets people up with false expectations and
> *discourages* long term use, even if it gets someone to try it.
>
> Linux has many strengths. It also has many weaknesses. Be honest about
> both... do not just lash out and lie about those who speak honestly about
> Linux, as you do in regards to me, above.
This is COLA. "Honest" discussion of Linux is not allowed or encouraged. If
someone posts a Linux problem with a printer or video-card then they are a
troll and a liar. But if an "advocate" posts that Microsoft is on the verge
of going bankrupt because Linux is destroying the company or that some
OpenMoko dud is going to destroy the iPhone then the freetards have no
problem drinking the Kool-Aid and believing that.
Peter Köhlmann
< snip >
> Three things come to mind...
>
> Microsoft Office
> Quicken
> printers
>
> Once you get past the internet those are the other three legs that hold
> up the chair.
>
> One can rant on about the nobility of GNU/open
> source/Linux/freedom/equality and all that lot forever but when Junior
> needs to print out his homework he needs a printer that functions.
You are an idiot of the highest degree. In short, you are as clueless as
one can get. Truly a windows user
I use linux since more than 10 years. Are you actually stupid enough to
think I would do that when I could not print?
--
Only two things are infinite,
the Universe and Stupidity.
And I'm not quite sure about the former.
- Albert Einstein
RonB
> Three things come to mind...
>
> Microsoft Office
> Quicken
> printers
Not everyone shares your infatuation with Microsoft Office or Quicken
(both of which have to purchased separately) -- and Linux works fine with
most printers.
Just more FUD, RickBobby, just more FUD.
--
RonB
"There's a story there...somewhere"
chrisv
Did it? Better than M$ Bob, I hope. Did it completely disallow the
option of having a normal IU?
Anyway, your "Linux too complicated" FUD failed, Fuddie.
JEDIDIAH
>
> "Ezekiel" <nowher...@zeke.com> wrote in message
> news:gvjisk$6b7$1...@news.eternal-september.org...
>>
>> "Hadron" <hadro...@gmail.com> wrote in message
>> news:gvjhri$s9d$1...@news.eternal-september.org...
>>> "Ezekiel" <nowher...@zeke.com> writes:
>> My opinion is that there were two main problems selling Linux netbooks.
>> First they weren't selling enough of them and the ones that were sold...
>> the return rate was too high. Most of the articles that I've read
>> regarding Windows 7 (real articles... not COLA "advocatey" hyperbole) have
>> been very positive. I think that Linux netbooks had their window of
>> opportunity during the Vista fiasco but that window is now starting to
>> close.
>>
>>
>
> Three things come to mind...
Yes... because people want to run Quicken on their netbooks.
>
> Microsoft Office
> Quicken
> printers
This is total nonsense.
This is an argument that belongs back in 1994.
>
> Once you get past the internet those are the other three legs that hold up
> the chair.
>
> One can rant on about the nobility of GNU/open source/Linux/freedom/equality
> and all that lot forever but when Junior needs to print out his homework he
> needs a printer that functions.
>
...which he's more likely to get with Linux.
WinDOS is certainly not going to ensure that things are trouble free.
This is especially true if you aren't just opening the printer for the
first time or doing something "strange" with it like connecting to it
while it's plugged into another machine (networked).
JEDIDIAH
> news:gvjism$tf5$1...@news.xmission.com...
>> Ezekiel wrote:
>>
>> I wonder if they can provide more details than in that article about the
>> reasons why Linux wasn't as popular on the netbooks. I assume that they
>> used focus groups, and other common techniques to discover what the
>> problem
>> was. That research could be valuable for the desktop Linux groups to
>> learn
>> where they have gone wrong.
>>
>>
>
> I can tell the reasons. Microsoft Office, Quicken, and printers.
Take a multifunction printer, try to network it and that last
"show stopper" evaporates. Windows will quickly lose it's mind as
you try to think outside the box slightly.
Nigel Feltham
> On 2009-05-27, RickyBobby <nasc...@cox.net> wrote:
>>
>> "GPS" <geor...@xmission.com> wrote in message
>> news:gvjism$tf5$1...@news.xmission.com...
>>> Ezekiel wrote:
>>>
> [deletia]
>>> I wonder if they can provide more details than in that article about the
>>> reasons why Linux wasn't as popular on the netbooks. I assume that they
>>> used focus groups, and other common techniques to discover what the
>>> problem
>>> was. That research could be valuable for the desktop Linux groups to
>>> learn
>>> where they have gone wrong.
>>>
>>>
>>
>> I can tell the reasons. Microsoft Office, Quicken, and printers.
>
> Take a multifunction printer, try to network it and that last
> "show stopper" evaporates. Windows will quickly lose it's mind as
> you try to think outside the box slightly.
Or try to network just a scanner - the only way to network a Scanner to
Windows clients is to put it on a Linux Server and use SANE to share it
over the network and a SANE to TWAIN wrapper on the windows machines.
Even the large Multifunction Laser printers designed for network sharing run
Linux as the internal OS, wouldn't be surprised if these use SANE protocol
to talk to the windows clients too.
7
wrote on behalf of Half Wits from Micoshaft Appil Department of Marketing:
> <quote>
> 27 May, 2009
>
> At today's ASUS product showcase in Sydney, a bunch of media
> representatives where given a taste of the company's latest and greatest
> notebooks, including the new range of Eee PC netbooks.
Too bad - I'm about to buy the third EEE.
Especially with Linux netbooks set to top 50% of sales globally,
Asus are going to miss out on a big chunk of the market it expanded
by itself it it carries on listening to WINDUMMY marketing plops.
I can barely trace the good Linux laptops to sellers as the supplies
and sales revenues are being choked off by Asus.
Cutting your own throat in a recession must be a wonderful
thing for Asus.
Its not going to work out for the long term.
Their machines are piled thousands high (WINDUMMY versions
amd not selling/sellable) in retail outlets while all the Linux ones are
gone as soon as they arrive.
Retailers should convert the windummy machines to Linux ones
with 3D compiz translucent desktops and see the sales rocket
again (details below). And then claim all the unsold windummy
licenses back.
Ubuntu 9.04 Dumbfoundationalism Experiences
-------------------------------------------
I just don't believe it!
I downloaded and installed Ubuntu 9.04 on an Asus EEE.
It took me 17 minutes from clicking start of installation
to finishing installation, booting up
AND browsing first web page!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
WHAT AN ACHIEVEMENT FOR THE UBUNTU TEAM!!!!!
HIP HIP HOORAY!
HIP HIP HOORAY!!
HIP HIP HOORAY!!!
I am totally dumb founded!!
Ubuntu 9.04 is technically just astonishing!!
Nothing as powerful exists for the PC in the whole world.
And nothing as powerful as this has existed in the PC's entire history!!!
2Gb of software installed including open office, networking,
browser, user management, gimp, email, music/movie player,
DVD burner, synaptic, rsync, etc. etc.. etc..
To make matters 'worse', I didn't even install to the internal
disks, I installed to a 2.5" 40Gb external pocket drive
running off of a USB port!!!
Since I didn't believe the install time, I thought I must have
made a mistake with the mental note of time.
So I installed again!
And its 17 minutes again from pressing the install button to booting
up the new install and opening up firefox and then typing
google and getting first page up!!!
Since the EEE 1000 hasn't got an optical drive, I installed with
from the SD Card formatted to EXT2 (Micoshaft FAT format is a disaster
for an SD Card and won't work at these speeds)
Here below some pointers to how it all got done...
Using extlinux to convert a liveCD iso to bootable SD card
-------------------------------------------------------------
Converting an ISO file to a bootable USB stick or a bootable
SD Card for EEE is easy.
Without being able to convert a distro into a bootable USB flash /SD Card,
that distro can't be easily loaded into netbook like EEE
and stand to miss out on users installing it into netbooks.
So I would recommend all distro mainters look at their netbook
boot strategy and offer something to boot their distros
from USB flash and SD cards or miss out on users installing it into
netbooks.
Having done a few conversions, a pattern emerges that works well for
most syslinux / isolinux / extlinux based distros.
1. Put your SD card or USB flash drive into your desktop Linux PC and
���then�open�a�console�and�type�dmesg
���You�should�see�some�line�indicating�your�flash�drive�as
���being�picked�up�and�allocated�with�a�comment�like�sdc�/�sdc1�etc..
���Remember�both�names�-�the�first�is�/dev/sdc�which�is�your
���device�name,�and�the�second�is�/dev/sdc1�which�is�your�partition�name.
���(Don't�get�confused�between�drive�/dev/sdc�and�partition�/dev/sdc1
���or�your�drive�could�become�scrambled�eggs�later�on.�Also�remember
���it�may�be�called�sdg�or�sdh�etc�depending�what�you�see�when�you
���plug�in�device�and�type�dmesg)
2. Install gparted on your machine using synaptic.
���To�run�it�you�can�type
�����sudo�gparted
���in�a�console�window�and�select�on�the�right�side�the�drive�name�allocated
���in�step�1.�Right�click�on�the�bar�that�represents�the�partition
���and�click�on�manage�flags.
���Enable�the�boot�flag�and�click�OK.�This�makes�the�SD�Card�/�USB
���stick�bootable.
3. Format the partition /dev/sdc1 to ext2 linux format.
���This�format�is�not�directly�readable�under�WINDUMMY�Osen,�but�there
���are�free�drivers�for�it�-�try�for�example�www.fs-driver.org
���The�ext2�format�is�many�times�faster�than�windummy�FAT�so
���ditching�WINDUMMY�file�formats�is�advised.
4. Identify that you have syslinux or isolinux in your liveCD by
���opening�the�.ISO�file�in�archive�manager�and�checking�that�it�has
���isolinux�or�syslinux�directory�somewhere�in�the�liveCD.
���In�ubuntu,�the�root�directory�of�/dev/sdc1�will�not�be�writeable
���unless�you�are�in�super�user�mode.
���You�can�run
��������sudo�file-roller
���to�open�iso�files�like�xubuntu-9.04-desktop-i386.iso�in�super�user
���mode�and�extract�all�the�files�in�the�iso�file
���to�the�/dev/sdc1�partition.
5. Go to the flash drive and locate the syslinux (or isolinux) directory.
���rename it to extlinux. Inside the now renamed extlinux directory will
���a�file�such�as�syslinux.cfg�or�isolinux.cfg.�Rename�that�to
���extlinux.conf
���
6. Get syslinux - this is a boot loader and menu system for FAT based
���file�systems.�Download�the�latest�version�from�here...
���http://www.kernel.org/pub/linux/utils/boot/syslinux/
���Unzip�it�and�go�to�the�extlinux�directory.
���On�my�machine�path�is�something�like�this....../syslinux/extlinux
���Run�the�program�there�by�typing�this�-�(note�this�command�is�updating
���the�partition�/dev/sdc1)
���./extlinux�--install�/dev/sdc1/extlinux�
���This�puts�a�new�file�into�your�SD�card�/�USB�flash�disk
7. from the extlinux directory change to the mbr directory
���cd�../mbr
���and�then�run�this�-�again�note�this�time�its�updating�the�device�by
���writing�data�to�the�first�sector�as�opposed�to�the�first�partition.
���sudo�cat�mbr.bin�>�/dev/sdc
���(Note�at�this�stage�you�may�need�to�do�some�of�the�sudo�commands�after
���entering�super�user�mode�to�make�it�work�properly.
���So�the�above�command�would�have�been�done�as�follows�in�Ubuntu.
���sudo�-s
���cat�mbr.bin�>�/dev/sdc
���)
���This�makes�the�card�bootable�and�useable�in�an�Asus�EEE�and�many�other
���PCs�with�SD�card�or�USB�flash�disk�boot�facility.
This method tested and works for
1. Ubuntu
2. Slax
3. Knoppix
4. Puppy
5. DSL
6. GParted
7. gOS
8. Dynabolic
9. MoonOS Kachana
10. Xubuntu
11. TinyOS (incredible distro!)
(Note the method does not work for .ISO files built with grub bootloader -
�need�a�different�install�method�with�grub�boot�loader�instead�of�syslinux.)
Try installing something powerful like Ubuntu on to a netbook
and see it take netbooks to new heights.
3D Translucent Cube Desktop
---------------------------
The latest EEE1000 has fast enough graphics for translucent
3D desktops. An easy way to do all this with Ubuntu is:
Install Ubuntu on EEE (compiz itself
appears to be installed by default in the default install),
then install compiz settings manager using Synaptic
which allows compiz to be fully 'exercised'.
And then do the following to get the 3D cube desktop
working...
�Go�to�General�>�Display�Settings�>�Lighting�and�turned�it�off
�Enable�Desktop�Cube�and�then�Desktop�Cube�>�Transparent�Cube�and�set�the
�two�opacity��settings�to�30%
�then�Desktop�Cube�>�Skydome�and�check�the�skydome�check�mark
�Enable�Rotate�Cube
�Enable�Enhanced�Zoom�Desktop
�Right�click�the�virtual�workspaces�panel�and�increase�the�number
�of�colums�to�8.
And hey presto - 100% 3D translucent desktop with 8 screens!!!!!!!!!!
�[Some�shortcuts�for�the�3D screen
��ctrl�+�alt�+�left�or�right�arrow�to�spin�cube
��ctrl�+�alt�+�down�arrow�and�then�left�or�right�arrow�for�a�ring�switcher
��super�+�E�for�yet�another�switcher
��super�+�mouse�wheel�scroll�to�zoom�in�and�out�of�the�3D�desktop.
�]
Reducing Font Sizes And Turning ON Sub Pixel Rendering
------------------------------------------------------
The EEE can be astonishingly good to look at once the
font size is reduced to about 8 and sub pixel rendering
is turned ON. It is still absolutely
readable and everything appeared like a 'full screen' miniature
desktop equivalent of a big desktop PC.
System > Appearance > Fonts get to the font settings
in Ubuntu. On software like firefox and some other applications,
need to also to set local use of fonts ( Edit > Preferences > Content
will have font settings for firefox that also need to be changed).
VirtualBox
----------
Yes! VirtualBox can run on Ubutu set up with 3D translucent desktop.
http://www.virtualbox.org
Install virtual box and then install programs like windopws XP and run
it pretty much at it would run on a normal netbook. Its hard to tell
if the netbook is running Linux or the WINDUMMY OSen when the software
is run full screen becaue the speed and responsiveness is about
the same between a real windummy OSen install and a virtual box
virtual machine running it all in Linux.
Tom Shelton
> After takin' a swig o' grog, Tony(UK) belched out
> this bit o' wisdom:
>
>
>
> > On Wed, 27 May 2009 10:31:47 -0400, Ezekiel wrote:
>
> >>news:gvjhri$s9d$1...@news.eternal-september.org...
> >>> "Ezekiel" <nowhere-th...@zeke.com> writes:
>
> >> Most of the COLA loonies don't know a thing about Windows or don't know
> >> nearly as much as they think they know. There have been dozens of
> >> ridiculously wrong claims made so another wrong one is hardly surprising.
>
> >>> So that's Lenovo and Asus abandoning Linux. Not good.
>
> >> My opinion is that there were two main problems selling Linux netbooks.
> >> First they weren't selling enough of them and the ones that were sold... the
> >> return rate was too high. Most of the articles that I've read regarding
> >> Windows 7 (real articles... not COLA "advocatey" hyperbole) have been very
> >> positive. I think that Linux netbooks had their window of opportunity during
> >> the Vista fiasco but that window is now starting to close.
>
> > I am posting this from my test machine running Windows 7 RC1. Whilst I
> > still have a great interest in the development of Linux, I regret to say
> > that this version of Windows is superior to any Linux distribution I have
> > used.
>
> How so, Tony?
>
> Faster?
>
The Vista - way faster. I'm currently dual-booting with RC1 on this
machine. The hardware is about 2 years old. W7 is noticeably faster
and much lighter on system resources. I can't really compare it to
XP, I don't have a triple boot - but given XP's not so great support
of multi-core processors, I suspect that it would still be faster.
> Better desktop? More eye-candy?
>
It's about the same as Vista - though, the new taskbar is a much
needed improvement then the taskbar that's essentially been around
since windows 95 :) I am also glad the got rid of the sidebar.
> Better networking and transmission speed?
>
I don't know. Unlike a lot of people here, I've never had trouble
with networking on windows. Apparently, I buy better hardware or
something.
> No DRM?
>
No change there that I know of, but I've been using Vista for about 2
years now, and I haven't seen any issues with DRM surface...
> More applications installed?
>
Less actually. A lot of stuff has been moved to windows live
services. So, you can download as you need them. Though, there are
some cool additions - such as PowerShell ISE, basically an IDE for
windows powershell. Paint and WordPad have gotten some major upgrades
in W7 as well.
So far, I have to say I like it W7 a lot.
--
Tom Shelton
Tom Shelton
> Tony(UK) wrote:
> > On Wed, 27 May 2009 10:31:47 -0400, Ezekiel wrote:
>
> >>news:gvjhri$s9d$1...@news.eternal-september.org...
> >>> "Ezekiel" <nowhere-th...@zeke.com> writes:
>
> >> Most of the COLA loonies don't know a thing about Windows or don't know
> >> nearly as much as they think they know. There have been dozens of
> >> ridiculously wrong claims made so another wrong one is hardly surprising.
>
> >>> So that's Lenovo and Asus abandoning Linux. Not good.
> >> My opinion is that there were two main problems selling Linux netbooks.
> >> First they weren't selling enough of them and the ones that were sold... the
> >> return rate was too high. Most of the articles that I've read regarding
> >> Windows 7 (real articles... not COLA "advocatey" hyperbole) have been very
> >> positive. I think that Linux netbooks had their window of opportunity during
> >> the Vista fiasco but that window is now starting to close.
>
> > I am posting this from my test machine running Windows 7 RC1. Whilst I
> > still have a great interest in the development of Linux, I regret to say
> > that this version of Windows is superior to any Linux distribution I have
> > used.
>
> For now. Wait until the 'for sale version' comes out. Things will get
> changed
> and you won't like it.
Things rarely change between RC and Retail. RC's are feature
complete, so nothing should be added or taken away. It's basically,
just bug fixes and performance tuning at this point.
--
Tom Shelton
Terry Porter
> On Wed, 27 May 2009 10:31:47 -0400, Ezekiel wrote:
>
>> "Hadron" <hadro...@gmail.com> wrote in message
>> news:gvjhri$s9d$1...@news.eternal-september.org...
>>> "Ezekiel" <nowher...@zeke.com> writes:
>>>
>>
>> Most of the COLA loonies don't know a thing about Windows or don't know
>> nearly as much as they think they know. There have been dozens of
>> ridiculously wrong claims made so another wrong one is hardly surprising.
>>
>>
>>> So that's Lenovo and Asus abandoning Linux. Not good.
>>
>> My opinion is that there were two main problems selling Linux netbooks.
>> First they weren't selling enough of them and the ones that were sold...
>> the return rate was too high.
No mention of Microsoft forcing the OEMS to use Windows ... how odd.
>> Most of the articles that I've read
>> regarding Windows 7 (real articles... not COLA "advocatey" hyperbole)
>> have been very positive.
Only the ones by Microsoft Press (tm). Actual user articles seem a lot less
positive.
>> I think that Linux netbooks had their window of
>> opportunity during the Vista fiasco but that window is now starting to
>> close.
Only because Microsoft is closing it by using their monopoly position.
>
> I am posting this from my test machine running Windows 7 RC1. Whilst I
> still have a great interest in the development of Linux, I regret to say
> that this version of Windows is superior to any Linux distribution I have
> used.
In what way I wonder ?
Your post is highly detailed regarding your perceived 'faults' of Linux, yet
not one example of why Vista 7 is as 'superior" as you claim.
> This, coupled with the infighting within factions of the Linux community
> and the utter stupidity of some people in this newsgroup, stretch the
> whole 'Freedom' thing to the point of breaking.
Nonsense. I've never heard such a load of crap.
I guess you have never met Bill Gates or heard of his utter contempt for
Microsoft workers, you have never read the DOJ 'finding of fact' regarding
Microsofts actions killing off Netscape, and you have never heard of the
Comes v/s MS docs ?
> I can see why companies
> are abandoning Linux - the principles are right, the personalities wrong.
I do not believe you're thinking straight. Companies only care about one
thing .... profit. Linux is making huge profits possible, and companies are
not abandoning Linux, they are embracing it.
Linux powers every Sony Bravia HDTV set, perhaps you have seen one ?
I've sold 2500 Linux WiFi access points *personally* in the last few years,
and our new N mode unit is now out, and its Linux powered also.
The next generation of mobile phones will be Linux powered, have you missed
that ?
> I have to think long and hard about where to go and what to do next.
While you're doing that, perhaps you can tell me what makes vista7
so 'superior' ?
--
If we wish to reduce our ignorance, there are people we will
indeed listen to. Trolls are not among those people, as trolls, more or
less by definition, *promote* ignorance.
Kelsey Bjarnason, C.O.L.A. 2008
William Poaster
of the trolls GPS was heard to say:
> William Poaster wrote:
>
>> On Wed, 27 May 2009 16:07:51 +0100, above the shrieking, FUDding &
>> whining of the trolls Tony(UK) was heard to say:
>>
>>> On Wed, 27 May 2009 10:31:47 -0400, Ezekiel wrote:
>>>
>>>> "Hadron" <hadro...@gmail.com> wrote in message
>>>> news:gvjhri$s9d$1...@news.eternal-september.org...
>>>>> "Ezekiel" <nowher...@zeke.com> writes:
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>> Most of the COLA loonies don't know a thing about Windows or don't
>>>> know nearly as much as they think they know. There have been dozens of
>>>> ridiculously wrong claims made so another wrong one is hardly
>>>> surprising.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> So that's Lenovo and Asus abandoning Linux. Not good.
>>>>
>>>> My opinion is that there were two main problems selling Linux
>>>> netbooks. First they weren't selling enough of them and the ones that
>>>> were sold... the return rate was too high. Most of the articles that
>>>> I've read regarding Windows 7 (real articles... not COLA "advocatey"
>>>> hyperbole) have been very positive. I think that Linux netbooks had
>>>> their window of opportunity during the Vista fiasco but that window is
>>>> now starting to close.
>>>
>>> I am posting this from my test machine running Windows 7 RC1. Whilst I
>>> still have a great interest in the development of Linux, I regret to
>>> say that this version of Windows is superior to any Linux distribution
>>> I have used.
>>> This, coupled with the infighting within factions of the Linux
>>> community and the utter stupidity of some people in this newsgroup,
>>> stretch the whole 'Freedom' thing to the point of breaking. I can see
>>> why companies are abandoning Linux - the principles are right, the
>>> personalities wrong. I have to think long and hard about where to go
>>> and what to do next.
>>
>> <shrug> That's entirely up to you, of course. However the Ezekiel
>> wintroll trotted out the M$ line about Linux netbooks, that "the ones
>> that were sold the return rate was too high." That has been denied by
>> the *manufacturers*, but their rebuttals were not given as much coverage
>> as M$ damaging FUD.
>
> What sources are you basing that on?
Susan Linton, owner of tuxmachines.org
> source:
> http://blog.laptopmag.com/msi-wind-coming-to-major-retailer-new-models-
> coming-soon
>
> "They start playing around with Linux and start realizing that it�s not
> what they are used to. They don�t want to spend time to learn it so they
> bring it back to the store. The return rate is at least four times higher
> for Linux netbooks than Windows XP netbooks."
>> Hewlett-Packard have just introduced a new range of laptops aimed at
>> businesses & installed with SUSE Linux. Seems they aren't taking much
>> notice of the "Linux window closing".
>
> Hmm, and I recall that Linux Journal had a video review of some of the HP
> hardware. They are targeting Windows primarily in the advertising though.
> There were some problems with the HP hardware and Linux.
>
> source: http://www.linuxjournal.com/video/review-hp-2133-mini-note
>
> Take note of the many disappointed users that responded to that article
> with a comment.
>
> It's sad that HP can't get stable drivers for Linux for video or wireless,
> when they are putting together the hardware. Shawn Powers (in that video)
> talks about using ndiswrapper (to use a Windows driver) :(
http://www.theinquirer.net/inquirer/news/1137494/hp-strikes-netbooks
--
Surely you are not comparing the
non-existent Linux (at that time)
with Windows 98?
Hadron: Message-ID: <npk5rvz...@homelinux.net>
Sinister Midget III
Those were some of the worst piles of manure I ever had the misfortune
to lay hands on.
And where are they now? That's right, they're still selling also-ran
garbage. Perfect fit for Windwoes. Now that Acer bought them up (last
year) maybe they'll make something useful out of them.
--
If you don't think women are explosive, drop one!
---------------------------------------------------------------
Eee PC900 16G SSD 2G RAM Ubuntu 9.04
William Poaster
of the trolls Sinister Midget III was heard to say:
> On 2009-05-27, Erik Funkenbusch <er...@despam-funkenbusch.com> claimed:
>> On Wed, 27 May 2009 13:08:00 -0500, chrisv wrote:
>>
>>> Fuddie wrote:
>>>
>>>>Could that be because they saw Linux as too complicated for their
>>>>customers
>>>
>>> Could it be that Windows is just as fricken complicated to use, if not
>>> worse, but has the advantage that most everyone has already invested
>>> countless hours (or years) in learning to deal with it?
>>
>> I remember 10+ years ago, some companies like Packard Bell would put
>> these simplified front ends on Windows machines. It seemed to work for
>> them.
>
> Those were some of the worst piles of manure I ever had the misfortune to
> lay hands on.
More like Crapard-Hell then. <grin>
> And where are they now? That's right, they're still selling also-ran
> garbage. Perfect fit for Windwoes. Now that Acer bought them up (last
> year) maybe they'll make something useful out of them.
--
Ezekiel
"William Poaster" <w...@jaunty904-64bit.org> wrote in message
news:pan.2009.05.27....@jaunty904-64bit.org...
Assuming she really did say this (there's no evidence that she did) - How
in the world would she know what the return rates of Asus netbooks are?
Don Zeigler
> While you're doing that, perhaps you can tell me what makes vista7
> so 'superior' ?
It has pretty icons and backgrounds.
--
A running chicken is poultry in motion.
Regards,
DZ (Owner/proprietor, Trollus Amongus, LLC)
Matt
I couldn't get XP to use an old Mustek Bearclaw 1200 scanner at all, let
alone share it on the network. Ubuntu recognizes it as soon as I plug
it in.
Matt
> Matt <ma...@themattfella.xxxyyz.com> writes:
>
>> Andrew Halliwell wrote:
>>
>>> Let's not forget that ASUS is STILL investing in linux.
>>> Maybe no longer on their not-netbooks-anymore-just-underpowered-laptops.
>>> But their higher end motherboards are all going to feature a linux instant
>>> on bios thing.
>>
>> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Splashtop
>>
>
> And want a really good laugh? OK:
>
> ,----
> | New versions of Asus motherboards don't come with Splashtop preinstalled
> | (exception, the P6T Deluxe). You have to use a CD that includes a
> | Windows-only based installer. Also, you are required to have a Windows
> | partition to store 500 MB of files, which has to be a SATA drive defined
> | as IDE (no support for AHCI).[9] If one doesn't have a Windows-based
> | machine, it is possible to install Splashtop on a USB key, from the
> | sources
> `----
I find that Newegg sells over 300 kinds of Intel-socketed motherboards.
Their biggest seller is the ASUS P5Q Pro. Also in the top 20 are the
ASUS P5Q-E, P5Q, P5Q Deluxe, and P6T Deluxe, in places 13, 15, 16, and
20 respectively.
All five of those motherboards come with Express Gate installed, which
is the ASUS version of Splashtop (instant-on Linux). ASUS has several
other boards in the top 20, but it isn't clear whether Express Gate is
included with those.
> Home. >
> Computer Hardware0_. >
> Motherboards1_. >
> Intel Motherboards (x)
> (1-20 of 301 Results)
(sort by most reviews)
Not sure, but it looks like maybe the boards have to dedicate one of the
USB ports and an SSD to Express Gate, so there does seem to be a
per-copy cost.
DFS
> I am posting this from my test machine running Windows 7 RC1. Whilst I
> still have a great interest in the development of Linux, I regret to
> say that this version of Windows is superior to any Linux
> distribution I have used.
Of course. It was developed by professionals who take pride in their work,
and whose reputations and jobs are on the line.
Doesn't mean every piece of Linux/OSS hobbyware is awful, but when was the
last time you saw an amateur outperform a professional, at anything?
> This, coupled with the infighting within factions of the Linux
> community and the utter stupidity of some people in this newsgroup,
Don't let 7 run you off. Just picture him with his head bandaged up and
gibbering and you'll realize why he talks like he does.
> stretch the whole 'Freedom' thing to the point of breaking. I can see
> why companies are abandoning Linux - the principles are right, the
> personalities wrong.
What's a little foot munchie between freetards?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I25UeVXrEHQ
> I have to think long and hard about where to go and what to do next.
Gonna join the Evil Empire [again], huh?
Make up your minds, Tony. Not long ago you were hammering on MS for
"killing the dreams and aspirations of a 13-year old girl".
Tim Smith
Terry Porter <lin...@netspace.net.au> wrote:
> >> Most of the articles that I've read regarding Windows 7 (real
> >> articles... not COLA "advocatey" hyperbole) have been very
> >> positive.
>
> Only the ones by Microsoft Press (tm). Actual user articles seem a lot less
> positive.
That's not what I see on gamer forums. Lot's of gamers have tried
Windows 7 and seem pretty happy with it.
...
> Linux powers every Sony Bravia HDTV set, perhaps you have seen one ?
> I've sold 2500 Linux WiFi access points *personally* in the last few years,
> and our new N mode unit is now out, and its Linux powered also.
>
> The next generation of mobile phones will be Linux powered, have you missed
> that ?
So when you hide Linux behind proprietary interfaces that completely
control the user experience, it does well? Touting how great Linux is
in uses where the OS is pretty much irrelevant is not a very convincing
argument for convincing people it's a worthy alternative on the desktop.
When I bought my current home wireless router, a friend of mine bought
the same model, from the same store, in the same week. Turns out mine
came with Linux and his came with VxWorks. Yet when running them with
the software that came on them, they present the same interface, have
the same functionality, and the same performance. The only way you can
easily tell that mine is Linux and his is VxWorks is by checking the net
and learning that a particular digit of the serial number indicates
which OS they used.
(I actually sought out the Linux model--and also bought a second one,
because I specifically wanted the Linux model, so I would have the
option of going with more advanced third party software. The VxWorks
models only have half the RAM of the Linux models, and so it is harder
to run much of the third party software on them. I suppose that means I
wasn't actually buying it because of Linux, but rather was using the
presence of Linux as an indicator of the amount of RAM).
--
--Tim Smith
Tim Smith
Nigel Feltham <nigel....@btinternet.com> wrote:
> Or try to network just a scanner - the only way to network a Scanner to
> Windows clients is to put it on a Linux Server and use SANE to share it
> over the network and a SANE to TWAIN wrapper on the windows machines.
<http://www.edn.com/article/CA420629.html>
--
--Tim Smith
baaaaabaa...@gmail.com
wrote:
> In article <qZqdnSwIJ558BoDXnZ2dnUVZ8jJi4...@brightview.co.uk>,
> Nigel Feltham <nigel.felt...@btinternet.com> wrote:
>
> > Or try to network just a scanner - the only way to network a Scanner to
> > Windows clients is to put it on a Linux Server and use SANE to share it
> > over the network and a SANE to TWAIN wrapper on the windows machines.
>
> <http://www.edn.com/article/CA420629.html>
>
> --
> --Tim Smith
I have an Asus P5SEq2 which will boot Linux if needed.
You need to load some stuff from a CD, then enable it in the BIOS.
I am involved with video editing for TV and the first thing Avid and
other companies who make video software tell us to do is disable the
Linux boot loader.
Basically it sucks and can cause problems.
DFS
> On 2009-05-27, Erik Funkenbusch <er...@despam-funkenbusch.com> claimed:
>> On Wed, 27 May 2009 13:08:00 -0500, chrisv wrote:
>>
>>> Fuddie wrote:
>>>
>>>> Could that be because they saw Linux as too complicated for their
>>>> customers
>>>
>>> Could it be that Windows is just as fricken complicated to use, if
>>> not worse, but has the advantage that most everyone has already
>>> invested countless hours (or years) in learning to deal with it?
>>
>> I remember 10+ years ago, some companies like Packard Bell would put
>> these simplified front ends on Windows machines. It seemed to work
>> for them.
>
> Those were some of the worst piles of manure I ever had the misfortune
> to lay hands on.
Nowadays they're called Linux netbooks.
DFS
> After takin' a swig o' grog, White Spirit belched out
> this bit o' wisdom:
>
>> Tony(UK) wrote:
>>
>>> I can see why companies are
>>> abandoning Linux - the principles are right, the personalities
>>> do next.
>>
>> If the 'personalities' are wrong, find other people to discuss your
>> interest with. To be fair, however, this group is under attack from
>> people who wish to prevent its purpose. The problem isn't Linux
>> personalities here but there are many other Linux newsgroups that
>> have a significantly better signal to noise ratio that you might
>> want to try (assuming you haven't done so).
>
> Exactly. This newsgroup is swamped with assholes (DFS, Hadron,
> Flatfish, Snit, The Bee, Clogwog, Ezekiel) whose sole purpose is to
> counter any good postings about Linux with invective, insults,
> discouragement, and pro-Microsoft astroturfing.
>
> I'm surprised you don't realize this, Tony.
You're lying, jackoff.
If this wasn't a hate-MS newsgroup none of us would bother. Then again,
neither would you lying idiots.
Hadron
> Chris Ahlstrom stated in post 0YdTl.47857$19.4...@bignews2.bellsouth.net on
> 5/27/09 9:47 AM:
>
>> After takin' a swig o' grog, White Spirit belched out
>> this bit o' wisdom:
>>
>>> Tony(UK) wrote:
>>>
>>>> I can see why companies are
>>>> abandoning Linux - the principles are right, the personalities wrong.
>>>> I have to think long and hard about where to go and what to do next.
>>>
>>> If the 'personalities' are wrong, find other people to discuss your
>>> interest with. To be fair, however, this group is under attack from
>>> people who wish to prevent its purpose. The problem isn't Linux
>>> personalities here but there are many other Linux newsgroups that have a
>>> significantly better signal to noise ratio that you might want to try
>>> (assuming you haven't done so).
>>
>> Exactly. This newsgroup is swamped with assholes (DFS, Hadron, Flatfish,
>> Snit, The Bee, Clogwog, Ezekiel) whose sole purpose is to counter any good
>> postings about Linux with invective, insults, discouragement, and
>> pro-Microsoft astroturfing.
>>
>> I'm surprised you don't realize this, Tony.
>
> By all means, show *one* example of my doing as you accuse.
>
> But you won't.
>
> You can't.
Of course he won't and can't. What did you expect?
>
> Not only do not I not "counter good postings about Linux", I welcome them.
> What I do not welcome, and what I do sometimes counter, are *lies* about
> Linux or, as you do above - about myself. For people to deny the problems
> with Linux is wrong - it sets people up with false expectations and
> *discourages* long term use, even if it gets someone to try it.
>
> Linux has many strengths. It also has many weaknesses. Be honest about
> both... do not just lash out and lie about those who speak honestly about
> Linux, as you do in regards to me, above.
Liarsuck has one agenda. And that's to appear to be the "#1 techie" of
the COLA "advocates".
People that told me off for calling him out (Ezekiel, DFS for two) have
realised that nothing he says can be trusted when he is in sucking up
mode. Hence the wonderful "Liarsuck".
Remember, the guy is on record as boasting about the money he makes from
SW for Windows platforms.
--
In view of all the deadly computer viruses that have been spreading
lately, Weekend Update would like to remind you: when you link up to
another computer, you’re linking up to every computer that that
computer has ever linked up to. — Dennis Miller
Hadron
I would be very surprised if "Tony" above was not a clever nym shift
from FF or You :-;
"Advocates" never move back to Windows because like WronG, they would
spend their "entire day" fighting Trojans, Virus and
Malware. Apparently.
Hadron
Yes. He *is* a liar. Allegedly. You are not the only one to have said it
...
>
> If this wasn't a hate-MS newsgroup none of us would bother. Then again,
> neither would you lying idiots.
Remember he has had links posted to his lies. And he hates
that. Unfortunately for Liarsuck he has dug such a deep hole he can not
get out.
Terry Porter
> In article <CNydnYm4dN79MYDX...@netspace.net.au>,
> Terry Porter <lin...@netspace.net.au> wrote:
>> >> Most of the articles that I've read regarding Windows 7 (real
>> >> articles... not COLA "advocatey" hyperbole) have been very
>> >> positive.
>>
>> Only the ones by Microsoft Press (tm). Actual user articles seem a lot
>> less positive.
>
> That's not what I see on gamer forums. Lot's of gamers have tried
> Windows 7 and seem pretty happy with it.
Lots of gamers have tried Vista7 and found it wanting.
>
> ...
>> Linux powers every Sony Bravia HDTV set, perhaps you have seen one ?
>> I've sold 2500 Linux WiFi access points *personally* in the last few
>> years, and our new N mode unit is now out, and its Linux powered also.
>>
>> The next generation of mobile phones will be Linux powered, have you
>> missed that ?
>
> So when you hide Linux behind proprietary interfaces that completely
> control the user experience, it does well?
The user interface is designed for the market segment involved.
A TV interface is different to a WIFI AP interface, which is different to a
mobile phone interface, *however* they all run the same Linux behind the
scenes.
Linux is no more 'hiding' than the engine in your car is 'hiding' because it
has a Ford chassis around it.
> Touting how great Linux is
> in uses where the OS is pretty much irrelevant is not a very convincing
> argument for convincing people it's a worthy alternative on the desktop.
The OS isn't irrelevant, what gave you that silly idea ?
>
> When I bought my current home wireless router, a friend of mine bought
> the same model, from the same store, in the same week. Turns out mine
> came with Linux and his came with VxWorks. Yet when running them with
> the software that came on them, they present the same interface, have
> the same functionality, and the same performance. The only way you can
> easily tell that mine is Linux and his is VxWorks is by checking the net
> and learning that a particular digit of the serial number indicates
> which OS they used.
I'm glad they look the same and work the same because that means Linux is
the wiser choice.
Linux is Free. VXworks requires licence/royalties, so Linux brings a cheaper
product to the consumer and or greater profit to the manufacturer.
>
> (I actually sought out the Linux model--and also bought a second one,
> because I specifically wanted the Linux model, so I would have the
> option of going with more advanced third party software.
Ok, so here is a MAJOR difference, thanks for mentioning it. Many Linksys
embedded routers have Free Linux aftermarket firmware which will enhance
the functionality. VxWorks versions do not.
> The VxWorks
> models only have half the RAM of the Linux models, and so it is harder
> to run much of the third party software on them.
Ripped off. Linksys tried using VxWorks to limit the device usability at the
expense of the user, and incidentally I have read articles by users
claiming the VXWorks version is unstable and buggy.
> I suppose that means I
> wasn't actually buying it because of Linux, but rather was using the
> presence of Linux as an indicator of the amount of RAM).
You bought the Linux version to use Free aftermarket Linux firmware on the
Linksys, because it offers vastly better functionality. You know it, and I
know it.
It's ironic, you troll here pro Windows, and anti Linux, you hassle the
Linux advocates and say nothing about the actions of the trolls, and you
use Linux yourself, because you *know* how useful it is.
Chris Ahlstrom
this bit o' wisdom:
> In article <qZqdnSwIJ558BoDX...@brightview.co.uk>,
RemoteScan sells two variants of its software on its site: a four-client
home version for $39.99 and a 20-client corporate version for $189.99.
A general Linux solution, a specific commercial Windows "solution".
--
Habit is habit, and not to be flung out of the window by any man, but coaxed
down-stairs a step at a time.
-- Mark Twain, "Pudd'nhead Wilson's Calendar
DFS
> I would be very surprised if "Tony" above was not a clever nym shift
> from FF or You :-;
What?
Of course it's not me. Forger is the lowest form of Usenet life.
JEDIDIAH
> Tony(UK) wrote:
>
>> I am posting this from my test machine running Windows 7 RC1. Whilst I
>> still have a great interest in the development of Linux, I regret to
>> say that this version of Windows is superior to any Linux
>> distribution I have used.
>
> Of course. It was developed by professionals who take pride in their work,
> and whose reputations and jobs are on the line.
Like Bob?
Like ME?
Like 95?
[deletia]
The fact is, no one really has to associate their name or permanent
professional reputation with Windows or any Microsoft product. So the
development of the product is better described as a "mob" activity.
That's "rioting mob" not "criminal mob".
The mob has no real conscious self awareness and individual parts of
the mob are insulated from direct consequences (which is what a corporation
is ultimately for).
--
Metallica is not worth the ruination of someone |||
who has pirated their music / | \
Tim Smith
Chris Ahlstrom <ahls...@launchmodem.com> wrote:
> After takin' a swig o' grog, Tim Smith belched out
> this bit o' wisdom:
>
> > In article <qZqdnSwIJ558BoDX...@brightview.co.uk>,
> > Nigel Feltham <nigel....@btinternet.com> wrote:
> >> Or try to network just a scanner - the only way to network a Scanner to
> >> Windows clients is to put it on a Linux Server and use SANE to share it
> >> over the network and a SANE to TWAIN wrapper on the windows machines.
> >
> > <http://www.edn.com/article/CA420629.html>
>
> RemoteScan sells two variants of its software on its site: a four-client
> home version for $39.99 and a 20-client corporate version for $189.99.
>
> A general Linux solution, a specific commercial Windows "solution".
Nevertheless, it refutes the claim that you can't do it on Windows
without putting the scanner on a Linux server. Hence, I stopped
Googling after I found it. Who knows what would have turned up if I had
spent more than 20 seconds searching?
--
--Tim Smith
RickyBobby
"Ezekiel" <nowher...@zeke.com> wrote in message
news:gvjgl8$k21$1...@news.eternal-september.org...
> <quote>
> 27 May, 2009
>
> At today's ASUS product showcase in Sydney, a bunch of media
> representatives where given a taste of the company's latest and greatest
> notebooks, including the new range of Eee PC netbooks.
>
> high-end, quad core Lamborghinis (I'm not joking). Even Windows Vista was
> there.
>
> There was only one thing missing - Linux.
>
> At the event I was speaking with ASUS Australia consumer market product
> manager Gordon Kerr who said Linux is likely to be phased out at the
> company as a pre-installed operating system on its notebook products.
> </quote>
>
>
> http://www.computerworld.com.au/article/304693/has_asus_all_given_up_linux
>
>
>
>
If one wants a high end notebook one wants one that works.
Linux can be made to work with some things but the effort is daunting and
the results are never as good. It is just a quirky thing to use Linux
because it is free. The world runs on Microsoft Windows and Microsoft
Office anyhow. In addition, Outlook and Outlook Express are the gold
standard for communicating.
Not that Linux does not have its place in things. Linux is good for wasting
time without feeling guilty.
I am well versed in both and Microsoft software is about one thousand times
better.
Tim Smith
Terry Porter <lin...@netspace.net.au> wrote:
> > Touting how great Linux is
> > in uses where the OS is pretty much irrelevant is not a very convincing
> > argument for convincing people it's a worthy alternative on the desktop.
>
> The OS isn't irrelevant, what gave you that silly idea ?
It's irrelevant to the end user, since all the end user sees in most of
these kind of devices is the proprietary interface developed by the
device vendor.
> >
> > When I bought my current home wireless router, a friend of mine bought
> > the same model, from the same store, in the same week. Turns out mine
> > came with Linux and his came with VxWorks. Yet when running them with
> > the software that came on them, they present the same interface, have
> > the same functionality, and the same performance. The only way you can
> > easily tell that mine is Linux and his is VxWorks is by checking the net
> > and learning that a particular digit of the serial number indicates
> > which OS they used.
>
> I'm glad they look the same and work the same because that means Linux is
> the wiser choice.
>
> Linux is Free. VXworks requires licence/royalties, so Linux brings a cheaper
> product to the consumer and or greater profit to the manufacturer.
VxWorks let them get the same functionality in half the memory, so they
saved on hardware costs. If the cost savings on hardware is more than
the cost of the VxWorks license, then they make more money with VxWorks.
Considering that they've switched back and forth a few times, it
probably is a close call either way, with which makes more profit being
determined by the memory price at the time.
> > (I actually sought out the Linux model--and also bought a second one,
> > because I specifically wanted the Linux model, so I would have the
> > option of going with more advanced third party software.
>
> Ok, so here is a MAJOR difference, thanks for mentioning it. Many Linksys
> embedded routers have Free Linux aftermarket firmware which will enhance
> the functionality. VxWorks versions do not.
You can put Linux firmware on some of the VxWorks versions. What
determines whether or not you can use the third party Linux firmware
with the router is not what OS came with the router, but rather what
hardware came with the router.
--
--Tim Smith
Hadron
> After takin' a swig o' grog, Tim Smith belched out
> this bit o' wisdom:
>
>> In article <qZqdnSwIJ558BoDX...@brightview.co.uk>,
>> Nigel Feltham <nigel....@btinternet.com> wrote:
>>> Or try to network just a scanner - the only way to network a Scanner to
>>> Windows clients is to put it on a Linux Server and use SANE to share it
>>> over the network and a SANE to TWAIN wrapper on the windows machines.
>>
>> <http://www.edn.com/article/CA420629.html>
>
> RemoteScan sells two variants of its software on its site: a four-client
> home version for $39.99 and a 20-client corporate version for $189.99.
>
> A general Linux solution, a specific commercial Windows "solution".
Try reading the thread you are replying to just ONCE before you start
sucking up and distorting things. The claim made which Tim disproved is
right up there in front of your eyes.
Tim Smith
"DFS" <nospam@dfs_.com> wrote:
> Don't let 7 run you off. Just picture him with his head bandaged up and
> gibbering and you'll realize why he talks like he does.
I've got a new theory: he learned English in France.
There was an interesting story on my local public radio station
yesterday about English instruction in France. The people who run the
French educational system believe that it is better to learn a foreign
language from a teacher who is *NOT* a native speaker of that language.
Their reasoning is that since a native speaker did not learn the
language the way the students will be learning it, the native speaker
can't really understand the difficulties the students will have.
Result: a disturbingly large number of the people certified as English
teachers in France are terrible at it.
The story was focused on one native English speaking author living in
France. She was constantly being asked by parents to give their kids
English lessons to supplement and correct what they learned in school.
She decided to take the exam to get certified as an English teacher.
She failed. It turns out the exam is organized in such a way that
unless you grew up in France as a native French speaker, it is hard to
pass. She wrote a fictionalized account of her experiences with trying
to teach English in France, and caused quite a stir.
--
--Tim Smith
Hadron
Yup. Happens all the time. An friend of mine lives in Germany (she is
English) with 3 bi-lingual kids. And I mean fluent Oxford English. They
all 3 failed their English exams for their leaving certs. Why? As you
said - their English was not "ze approved" English!
JEDIDIAH
>
> "Ezekiel" <nowher...@zeke.com> wrote in message
> news:gvjgl8$k21$1...@news.eternal-september.org...
>> <quote>
>> 27 May, 2009
>>
>> At today's ASUS product showcase in Sydney, a bunch of media
>> representatives where given a taste of the company's latest and greatest
>> notebooks, including the new range of Eee PC netbooks.
>>
>> The entire range was there, from ultra-portable, touch screen netbooks to
>> high-end, quad core Lamborghinis (I'm not joking). Even Windows Vista was
>> there.
>>
>> There was only one thing missing - Linux.
>>
>> At the event I was speaking with ASUS Australia consumer market product
>> manager Gordon Kerr who said Linux is likely to be phased out at the
>> company as a pre-installed operating system on its notebook products.
>> </quote>
>>
>>
>> http://www.computerworld.com.au/article/304693/has_asus_all_given_up_linux
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
> If one wants a high end notebook one wants one that works.
>
> Linux can be made to work with some things but the effort is daunting and
The effort is quite often non-existent and the results are quite
often just the same or even better.
> the results are never as good. It is just a quirky thing to use Linux
> because it is free. The world runs on Microsoft Windows and Microsoft
Nevermind the fact that it's Unix and Windows is ultimately the
product of a single user MS-DOS mentality.
> Office anyhow. In addition, Outlook and Outlook Express are the gold
> standard for communicating.
You should tell that to the Fortune 100.
[deletia]
--
Linux: Because I don't want to push pretty buttons. |||
I want the pretty buttons to push themelves. / | \
GreyCloud
> On May 27, 11:05 am, GreyCloud <cumu...@mist.com> wrote:
>> Tony(UK) wrote:
>>> On Wed, 27 May 2009 10:31:47 -0400, Ezekiel wrote:
>>>> news:gvjhri$s9d$1...@news.eternal-september.org...
>>>>> "Ezekiel" <nowhere-th...@zeke.com> writes:
>>>> Most of the COLA loonies don't know a thing about Windows or don't know
>>>> nearly as much as they think they know. There have been dozens of
>>>> ridiculously wrong claims made so another wrong one is hardly surprising.
>>>>> So that's Lenovo and Asus abandoning Linux. Not good.
>>>> My opinion is that there were two main problems selling Linux netbooks.
>>>> First they weren't selling enough of them and the ones that were sold... the
>>>> Windows 7 (real articles... not COLA "advocatey" hyperbole) have been very
>>>> the Vista fiasco but that window is now starting to close.
>>> still have a great interest in the development of Linux, I regret to say
>>> that this version of Windows is superior to any Linux distribution I have
>>> used.
>> changed
>> and you won't like it.
>
> Things rarely change between RC and Retail. RC's are feature
> complete, so nothing should be added or taken away. It's basically,
> just bug fixes and performance tuning at this point.
That wasn't what happened when Vista was released. A lot of people
noticed a few things
that were changed got changed for the worse. Plus the RC ones will
terminate.
--
"It is impossible to defeat an ignorant man in argument."
William G. McAdoo.
American Government official (1863-1941).
Tom Shelton
Like I said, rarely. There maybe one or two minor tweaks, etc - but,
there will be no significant changes. And there weren't for vista
that I recall, either. Most of the major changes happend between the
last beta and rc1.
> A lot of people
> noticed a few things
> that were changed got changed for the worse.
That can happen.
> Plus the RC ones will
> terminate.
>
So? I'm using the RC to start figuring things out now. You think I
went into it not knowing that? I am using it primarily to start
working with VS2010.
--
Tom Shelton
Tom Shelton
> On 2009-05-28, RickyBobby <nasca...@cox.net> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> > "Ezekiel" <nowhere-th...@zeke.com> wrote in message
> >news:gvjgl8$k21$1...@news.eternal-september.org...
> >> <quote>
> >> 27 May, 2009
>
> >> At today's ASUS product showcase in Sydney, a bunch of media
> >> representatives where given a taste of the company's latest and greatest
> >> notebooks, including the new range of Eee PC netbooks.
>
> >> The entire range was there, from ultra-portable, touch screen netbooks to
> >> high-end, quad core Lamborghinis (I'm not joking). Even Windows Vista was
> >> there.
>
> >> There was only one thing missing - Linux.
>
> >> At the event I was speaking with ASUS Australia consumer market product
> >> manager Gordon Kerr who said Linux is likely to be phased out at the
> >> company as a pre-installed operating system on its notebook products.
> >> </quote>
>
>
> > If one wants a high end notebook one wants one that works.
>
> > Linux can be made to work with some things but the effort is daunting and
>
> The effort is quite often non-existent and the results are quite
> often just the same or even better.
>
> > the results are never as good. It is just a quirky thing to use Linux
> > because it is free. The world runs on Microsoft Windows and Microsoft
>
> Nevermind the fact that it's Unix and Windows is ultimately the
> product of a single user MS-DOS mentality.
>
> > Office anyhow. In addition, Outlook and Outlook Express are the gold
> > standard for communicating.
>
> You should tell that to the Fortune 100.
>
I work for a company in the top 50 - and we use Office and Outlook
exclusively... What are you trying to say?
--
Tom Shelton
GPS
That's inaccurate. Are you joking?
Before MS-DOS Microsoft had XENIX. XENIX was actually a usable Unix
compatible system. They tried to sell XENIX, and invested a lot of money
into XENIX. It didn't sell well. They were trying to sell MS-DOS and XENIX
at the same time IIRC. The Unix market was very fragmented, and still is.
Apple had a lot of success with the Mac, and there were various other things
going on from other competitors, so Microsoft started work on a New
Technology (NT). Microsoft hired the lead architect behind VMS to work on
NT. Microsoft also started work on the user interface, and it was actually
a portable and powerful system. It wasn't without bugs, but if you try any
of the early Unix releases you would find that they too had bugs. Early
unix had a pathetic file system, and there were other bugs too, but it was
simple, and fairly easy to understand.
NT came before Windows 95, and it was a very good system. The biggest
problem with NT (especially version 4), was that it didn't support MS-DOS
compatibility as well as an actual MS-DOS session. So, Microsoft began the
work of porting some of the Win32 layer to Windows 95 from NT. They created
Windows 95, and the rest is pretty much history. They knew that Windows 95
was not the best, but Windows 95 offered MS-DOS compatibility with existing
software, and hardware.
Eventually most of the software had been upgraded, replaced, or obsolescent,
so when XP came, most people didn't notice problems with the loss of some
MS-DOS compatibility.
Somehow Microsoft managed to get all of the ideas from MS-DOS, Smalltalk,
Apple, and their experiences with XENIX into one usable system. I'm not
sure if it was luck, persistence, or a multi-faceted set of causes, but they
somehow formed what they have now. It's not ideal, but neither is
Linux/Unix.
-George
JEDIDIAH
Most large companies standardized on mail solutions before the
"young and trendy" Microsoft products took root. So the idea that
you are only going to see Microsoft solutions in corporations is
beyond assinine.
Contrary to popular opinion, computing is not primarily about
consumer devices and it all didn't just shake itself out yesterday.
--
This is a consumer product. |||
World domination simply isn't necessary. / | \
JEDIDIAH
So? XEXIX isn't related to DOS.
Also, they obviously abandonded that in favor for a rebranded QD-DOS.
They built on that rather than Xenix. They just left Xenix in the dumpster.
> compatible system. They tried to sell XENIX, and invested a lot of money
> into XENIX. It didn't sell well. They were trying to sell MS-DOS and XENIX
> at the same time IIRC. The Unix market was very fragmented, and still is.
That certainly explains (not) why I can use the same tools and commands on
SunOS, Linux, MacOS and AIX. This is much like the FUD about "fragmentation"
in Linux distributions. A lot of it is just empty hype.
>
> Apple had a lot of success with the Mac, and there were various other things
> going on from other competitors, so Microsoft started work on a New
> Technology (NT). Microsoft hired the lead architect behind VMS to work on
> NT. Microsoft also started work on the user interface, and it was actually
Yes, but the Windows shell of DOS is still the dominant personality of NT.
They even sacrificed the purity of Mach in order to make that shell run faster.
> a portable and powerful system. It wasn't without bugs, but if you try any
> of the early Unix releases you would find that they too had bugs. Early
> unix had a pathetic file system, and there were other bugs too, but it was
> simple, and fairly easy to understand.
Some of us ran those Unixen you are trying to so casually disparage without
any real justification. It seems you are making some very poor assumptions
here.
[deletia]
I always thought that NT sort of jumped the shark as soon as they bolted
on the Windows95 "personality" on top of it. This happened before the release
of NT4 and some of actually remember that too (from firsthand experience).
GreyCloud
Then M$ should pay you for testing win7. After all, it will terminate
eventually.
Not sure what benefits you'd get for using a beta version. I suppose
curiosity as to what it will do is enough for some.
Of course I'm also assuming that you have an MSDN account. I checked
out their website on downloading it to see
what it was like, but alas, I don't have an MSDN account.
Megabyte
> Ezekiel <nowher...@zeke.com> wrote:
>> My opinion is that there were two main problems selling Linux netbooks.
>> First they weren't selling enough of them and the ones that were sold... the
>> return rate was too high. Most of the articles that I've read regarding
>> Windows 7 (real articles... not COLA "advocatey" hyperbole) have been very
>> positive. I think that Linux netbooks had their window of opportunity during
>> the Vista fiasco but that window is now starting to close.
>
> manufacturers. All of whom used oversimplified front ends for the linux
> version rather than a proper well thought out distro with a decent window
> manager.
Funny, I suggested this very thing and was labeled a Wintroll! The
Advocates argued that the simplified front ends were what was needed.
Tom Shelton
Why? I knew it would terminate. If I couldn't live with he
conditions, I wouldn't have downloaded it.
> Not sure what benefits you'd get for using a beta version.
This isn't a beta - it's a release candidate. I used the beta, but in
a VM. The RC1 is installed on actuall hardware.
And the benifits - well, I get to know what to look forward to, or
dread about the comming release. It's my buisness to know - it's how
I stay employable :)
> I suppose
> curiosity as to what it will do is enough for some.
> Of course I'm also assuming that you have an MSDN account. I checked
> out their website on downloading it to see
> what it was like, but alas, I don't have an MSDN account.
>
You don't need an MSDN account. The RC is available to download:
http://www.microsoft.com/Windows/Windows-7/download.aspx
HTH
--
Tom Shelton
GPS
At the shell command level things may be very similar, but if you work with
the POSIX layers in C, there can be differences, and incompatible behavior.
I don't think that the incompatible Linux systems are FUD. There are many
different versions of libraries, and they can cause a program compiled with
a newer library to fail on another system with a slightly older library. I
understand that this is fairly standard behavior, but it doesn't have to be
so. Most code isn't even using the newer interfaces, so there must be a way
to build a portable executable in a way that works better, and in fact there
is.
This library incompatibility causes problems for any major software
distributor. It means that Skype, Opera, Oracle, and many other software
companies need to build for each specific system if they want the software
to work on a given system. Some companies only support 1 or 2 systems, as a
result.
The OpenGroup/TenDRA-related technology, such as ANDF/XANDF was I believe
one proposed solution that was implemented. Some other systems have also
been implemented that use the idea of an intermediate format that is used
for code generation on the host, such as Oberon.
Java's class file format is a related solution, but it doesn't provide a
unix interface, because Java's focus is primarily on OS portability.
>> a portable and powerful system. It wasn't without bugs, but if you try
>> any
>> of the early Unix releases you would find that they too had bugs. Early
>> unix had a pathetic file system, and there were other bugs too, but it
>> was simple, and fairly easy to understand.
>
> Some of us ran those Unixen you are trying to so casually disparage
> without any real justification. It seems you are making some very poor
> assumptions here.
I have also run the early versions of Unix. I ran release 6 IIRC, and 5 in
a hardware emulator. These were the versions when cd didn't exist, so chdir
was the command instead. The original unix file system was very poor.
McKusick and others were the primary driving force behind the Berkeley file
system (FFS) that fixed a variety of problems. The way that early unix
managed the file system resulted in *heavy* fragmentation. You can find
videos of McKusick talking about the history of Unix from his perspective on
youtube.
The parts of unix that were concise and well designed are now much
different. The original unix didn't support more than 1 file system, and it
shows in some of the behavior of the file system syscalls to this day. It
didn't support shared memory, a unified buffer cache, sockets, etc.
Plan 9 has a much better file system interface, and protocol.
These documents should help describe some of the known problems that were
the justification for my statement:
http://www.herpolhode.com/rob/ugly.pdf (Rob Pike's paper (he worked at Bell
Labs))
http://www.cs.unm.edu/~fastos/05meeting/PLAN9NOTDEADYET.pdf
-George
Gregory Shearman
Simplified is fine. OVERsimplified is not.
--
Regards,
Gregory.
Gentoo Linux - Penguin Power
JEDIDIAH
...not but calling it "fragmented" is FUD.
> different versions of libraries, and they can cause a program compiled with
> a newer library to fail on another system with a slightly older library. I
> understand that this is fairly standard behavior, but it doesn't have to be
> so. Most code isn't even using the newer interfaces, so there must be a way
> to build a portable executable in a way that works better, and in fact there
> is.
>
> This library incompatibility causes problems for any major software
> distributor. It means that Skype, Opera, Oracle, and many other software
> companies need to build for each specific system if they want the software
> to work on a given system. Some companies only support 1 or 2 systems, as a
> result.
It's a little bit more subtle than that.
Companies like Oracle are on the hook for 24/7 "while you wait" bugfix
support. So it's more than just a question of annoying library quirks.
This is why Centos and Whitebox are NOT supported while genuine RHEL is.
[deletia]
--
|||
In a free market, the herd should be irrelevant. / | \
GreyCloud
Tim Smith
GreyCloud <cum...@mist.com> wrote:
> > You don't need an MSDN account. The RC is available to download:
> > http://www.microsoft.com/Windows/Windows-7/download.aspx
> >
> Hmmm.... I wonder if it will work under VMWare Fusion?
I'd expect so--it works fine under Parallels.
--
--Tim Smith
GreyCloud
Ok. Another question: Is the win7 now pure 64-bit?
The reason I ask is that VMware will support the 64-bit oses out there.
I thought about Parallels last year, but they didn't support 64-bit then.
The nice thing about these virtual environments is that if you screw
things up pretty bad
I can always use Time Machine and go back and restore in about 2 minutes.
DFS
> While you're doing that, perhaps you can tell me what makes vista7
> so 'superior' ?
Usability. Speed. Fonts. Documentation. Reliability. Apps. Hardware.
Games. Looks. Development tools. Runs MS Office.
Peter Köhlmann
In short: Except for games, it strives hard to get to the level Linux
provides, but fails miserably.
And even with games, it can't match XP.
So, what was it exactly which makes it so "superior"?
--
Perl - the only language that looks the same before and after RSA
encryption.
-- Keith Bostic
JEDIDIAH
> DFS wrote:
>
>> Terry Porter wrote:
>>
>>> While you're doing that, perhaps you can tell me what makes vista7
>>> so 'superior' ?
>>
>> Usability. Speed. Fonts. Documentation. Reliability. Apps.
>> Hardware.
>> Games. Looks. Development tools. Runs MS Office.
>
> In short: Except for games, it strives hard to get to the level Linux
> provides, but fails miserably.
...you beat me to it.
>
> And even with games, it can't match XP.
>
> So, what was it exactly which makes it so "superior"?
--
Sophocles wants his cut. |||
/ | \
JEDIDIAH
Ok, so what about that Hauppauge 1212 and HD HomeRun support?
A lot of those are very hard to pin down, but "not supporting the
hottest new media center capture device" is a pretty easy one to
quantify.
Usability is very disptuable as are speed and fonts.
Documentation is just silly.
Reliability is a joke.
Games are really all you've got. Games are a lot less generic
than word processors. Swapping out one RTS for another or one
FPS for another doesn't tend to work very well.
Tom Shelton
> > GreyCloud <cumu...@mist.com> wrote:
> >>> You don't need an MSDN account. The RC is available to download:
> >>>http://www.microsoft.com/Windows/Windows-7/download.aspx
>
> >> Hmmm.... I wonder if it will work under VMWare Fusion?
>
> > I'd expect so--it works fine under Parallels.
>
> Ok. Another question: Is the win7 now pure 64-bit?
> The reason I ask is that VMware will support the 64-bit oses out there.
> I thought about Parallels last year, but they didn't support 64-bit then.
> The nice thing about these virtual environments is that if you screw
> things up pretty bad
> I can always use Time Machine and go back and restore in about 2 minutes.
>
Like Vista, Win7 comes in both 32-bit and 64-bit versions. You select
the version when you download. I am running the 64-bit version.
--
Tom Shelton
GreyCloud
How much disk space thru VMWare should one use for the 64-bit version?
Rockinghorse Winner
>On Wed, 27 May 2009 10:31:47 -0400, Ezekiel wrote:
>> "Hadron" <hadro...@gmail.com> wrote in message
>> news:gvjhri$s9d$1...@news.eternal-september.org...
>>> "Ezekiel" <nowher...@zeke.com> writes:
>>>
>>
>> Most of the COLA loonies don't know a thing about Windows or don't know
>> nearly as much as they think they know. There have been dozens of
>> ridiculously wrong claims made so another wrong one is hardly surprising.
>>
>>
>>> So that's Lenovo and Asus abandoning Linux. Not good.
>>
>> My opinion is that there were two main problems selling Linux netbooks.
>> First they weren't selling enough of them and the ones that were sold... the
>> return rate was too high. Most of the articles that I've read regarding
>> Windows 7 (real articles... not COLA "advocatey" hyperbole) have been very
>> positive. I think that Linux netbooks had their window of opportunity during
>> the Vista fiasco but that window is now starting to close.
>I am posting this from my test machine running Windows 7 RC1. Whilst I
>still have a great interest in the development of Linux, I regret to say
>that this version of Windows is superior to any Linux distribution I have
>used.
>This, coupled with the infighting within factions of the Linux community
>and the utter stupidity of some people in this newsgroup, stretch the whole
>'Freedom' thing to the point of breaking. I can see why companies are
>abandoning Linux - the principles are right, the personalities wrong.
>I have to think long and hard about where to go and what to do next.
Glad you're enjoying windows. Many people do, though many people don't have
a need for the power of Linux. For automation, stability, servers and wide
range of utilities, there really isn't a contest, however. But if you're
talking about a slick dte, Windows certainly is that.
*R* *H*
--
Hug your sweetie today.
Tom Shelton
I have it installed on a 30GB partition - seems to be sufficient, at
least for what i want :)
--
Tom Shelton
GreyCloud
Well, I went to the supplied url for download and it asks for a username
and password.
So it still looks like one has to be a member of something in order to
get it.
Tom Shelton
Yes, you have to have a windows live id (or old passport account).
--
Tom Shelton