[News Digest] 01/09/06 24 hrs
Mark Kent
digest (24 hours), which is obviously quite a bit shorter! I've
followed Roy S's header format somewhat, again as suggested, so that if
people don't want a digest, then they can kill it easily.
For those who don't comprehend what a digest is or does, it can only be
made /after/ the postings have appeared, not before... anyway, here we
go - again, all feedback welcome.
As per last time, this is from my leafnode spool, which is prefiltered
for some particular posters, so they would never get into this digest.
Otherwise, it picks up anything with the right subject line.
Subject: [News] Linux Gets Board Support Package for Dual-core Processor
Date: Fri, 01 Sep 2006 07:30:11 +0100
Linux 2.6 BSP supports TI OMAP5912 starter kit
,----[ Quote ]
| Mistral Software has released a Linux 2.6-based board support package
| (BSP) for TI's OMAP5912 starter kit (OSK). Dubbed the Accelerator Program
| 2.0, the BSP aims to support developers who are creating or upgrading
| embedded Linux applications that target TI's OMAP5912 dual-core
| processor.
`----
http://www.linuxdevices.com/news/NS4483249715.html
====
Subject: [News] Cordless Skype/Philips Phone Runs Linux
Date: Fri, 01 Sep 2006 07:31:46 +0100
Skype debuts Linux-powered cordless phone
,----[ Quote ]
| Skype on Aug. 31 introduced a pair of cordless VoIP phones that work
| without being connected to a computer, via a DECT basestation that
| attaches directly to broadband and POTS lines. One of the two -- the
| Philips VOIP841 -- uses Linux as its embedded OS.
`----
http://www.linuxdevices.com/news/NS8449749058.html
====
Subject: [News] Forbes on Linux and the GPL
Date: Fri, 01 Sep 2006 07:41:12 +0100
The Problem With St. Ignucius
,----[ Quote ]
| No single product has done more to fuel the Cheap Revolution than Linux.
| This free operating system runs in Wall Street banks and Hollywood special
| effects shops, on supercomputers and smart phones, TiVo boxes and network
| routers. Talk about momentum. Red Hat is on track to do $400 million in
| sales this year. Novell has just produced a Linux desktop so sleek that I
| didn't want to return the demo machine they loaned me, and I just bought a
| copy for my office PC...
|
| [...]
|
| Basically, two camps within the Linux community are facing off: the
| pragmatists, like Torvalds and the corporations, versus the extremists, led
| by Stallman.
|
| [...]
|
| Perens says if Torvalds doesn't adopt GPLv3, extremists will create a new
| operating system using a different kernel.
`----
http://www.forbes.com/2006/08/31/stallman-linux-opensource_cz_dl_0831stallman.html?boxes=custom
Yesterday I read about DRM in documents. That whole sustitution of
permissions with encryption is distrubing. Data is becoming binary blobs.
And that's /really/ bad.
====
Subject: [News] Forbes Magazine Covers The Linux Revolution
Date: Fri, 01 Sep 2006 07:48:22 +0100
Dated Sept. 18th, 2006.
The New Barbarians
,----[ Quote ]
| Coleman is one of dozens of new barbarians plotting the Cheap Revolution,
| the wholesale shift by corporate customers and techmakers to cheap chips
| and open-source (often free) software such as Linux. They are embracing
| simplicity, unlocking prodigious new power and cutting tech costs by up
| to 90%, threatening the Silicon Valley plutocracy: the proprietary gear,
| "closed" software, redundant backup systems and fat profit margins of
| incumbents like Microsoft, IBM, Oracle, Cisco, EMC and other
| blue-chip nameplates.
|
| [...]
|
| Engineers are fleeing BEA, Microsoft, Oracle and Sun to push the Cheap
| Revolution at no-name shops in obscure office parks in San Jose,
| San Mateo and Redwood City. David R. Dargo Jr., a programming hotshot
| at Oracle, retired in his 40s and was playing golf all day long when he
| was lured back to the Valley. He leads fellow Oracle alumni at Ingres,
| a database maker that aims to undercut Oracle with lower prices and
| better service. Paul Maritz, who ran development at Microsoft before
| quitting in 2000, has assembled a team that includes some former
| Microsoft engineers at his new firm, PI Corp., to outdo Windows.
|
| [...]
|
| Now newcomers are pushing lethal Linux into new markets: Motorola
| cell phones, Sony TVs and TiVo digital recorders; networking routers
| (Cisco and Nortel face new low-cost rivals; and data storage (EMC and
| Network Appliance are in the crosshairs). Every big software
| maker--including Microsoft, BEA, IBM, Oracle, SAP, SAS Institute, Veritas
| and VMware--now faces rivals pushing open-source or Web-based
| alternatives. The sellers of these cut-rate packages willingly accept
| profit margins of less than 10%, one-third that of tech's Old Guard.
|
| "All these guys that sell proprietary hardware with proprietary
| operating systems and massive margins, they're all dead," declares Simon
| Lok, founder of Lok Technology in San Jose...
|
| [...]
|
| Coleman, however, points out that so far every new wave of computing has
| been dominated by newcomers, not by leaders of the previous generation.
| To survive, he says, companies must undergo a transplant of corporate
| DNA, and few survive the surgery. "Startups," he says, "always define
| the new era."
`----
http://www.forbes.com/forbes/2006/0918/102_print.html
====
Subject: [News] Linux Tablet Reaches Its Third Generation
Date: Fri, 01 Sep 2006 07:51:28 +0100
Smaller, faster, lighter Linux webpad ships shortly
,----[ Quote ]
| Hanbit Electronics and Pepper Computer will ship a third generation
| Linux-powered webpad "on or before September 30th," Pepper confirmed Aug.
| 31. Compared to its predecessors, the Pepper Pad 3 boasts speedier web
| browsing, faster and more comprehensive multimedia support, smaller
| size, reduced weight, and numerous hardware enhancements, according to
| the company.
|
| [...]
|
| Comparison of compact Internet-enabled tablets
| Nokia 770 Pepper Pad 3 Samsung Q1
`----
http://www.linuxdevices.com/news/NS7390032119.html
====
Subject: [News] Archos Video Player Uses Linux
Date: Fri, 01 Sep 2006 07:55:15 +0100
http://www.archos.com/products/video/index.html?country=us&lang=en
Also covered in:
Archos Linux-based portable audio/video player available online
http://www.linuxdevices.com/news/NS8811342597.html
====
Subject: [News] The Impact of Virtualisation on Linux Adoption and Assessment
Date: Fri, 01 Sep 2006 08:03:17 +0100
VMWare's Virtual Appliance Showroom
,----[ Quote ]
| Perhaps the easiest way to evaluate Linux and other open source
| applications is by running them on top of Microsoft Windows. Virtually.
|
| [...]
|
| Krishnamurti said that with open source applications, the license makes
| them free. ISVs tend to tweak them, and so they just naturally gravitate
| toward a Linux strategy.
|
| [...]
|
| On the Linux and open source side of things though, the availability of
| free software from Linux appliance vendor rPath has helped the creation
| of the virtual machines.
|
| Users of rPath Builder can freely build VMware images of open source
| applications that will play on the VMware player.
`----
http://www.internetnews.com/ent-news/article.php/3629496
====
Subject: [News] Windows Makes Web Surfing and E-mail a Risk, Employees Unaware
Date: Fri, 01 Sep 2006 08:06:44 +0100
Majority Ignorant of Email risks
,----[ Quote ]
| A survey into the habits of 142 UK office workers conducted by Finjan,
| has uncovered that although they know the security risk to their employers
| caused by clicking on web-links or opening attachments from unknown
| sources, they simply can't help themselves.
|
| Of those questioned, 93 per cent said that they knew that links,
| attachments, pop boxes and web pages could have spyware or other forms
| of malicious code embedded within them.
`----
http://networkblog.itproportal.com/?p=164
====
Subject: [News] BSA Helps Linux, Follows the 'WGA Model'
Date: Fri, 01 Sep 2006 08:35:12 +0100
Fine unlicensed software users, says BSA
,----[ Quote ]
| Software industry lobby group the Business Software Alliance (BSA) has
| called for government to mandate stiff penalties for companies using
| unlicensed software.
|
| The organisation says it wants a "harder enforcement stick" to
| ensure compliance.
`----
http://www.theregister.co.uk/2006/08/30/fine_software_pirates_says_bsa/
====
Subject: [News] Microsoft Continues to Pump Up Stock, Attempts to Keep Employees
Date: Fri, 01 Sep 2006 08:44:41 +0100
Microsoft gives 37 mln shares in stock bonuses
,----[ Quote ]
| No. 1 software maker Microsoft Corp. on Thursday awarded restricted
| stock worth $951 million, based on its current share price, as
| performance bonuses to some 900 executives and managers.
|
| The shares were given to reward work over the past three years as part of
| a program Microsoft's board adopted in 2003, when the software giant
| topped awarding stock options to employees.
`----
http://yahoo.reuters.com/news/articlehybrid.aspx?storyID=urn:newsml:reuters.com:20060831:MTFH33080_2006-08-31_21-40-53_N31379086&type=comktNews&rpc=44
http://tinyurl.com/o7va3
How long can it buy the stock from the hands of investors that depart? It's
could be like Enron. The value will dissolve abruptly one day.
====
Subject: [News] Forbes Covers Desktop Linux
Date: Fri, 01 Sep 2006 08:49:10 +0100
Desktop Linux
,----[ Quote ]
| Microsoft is helping the cause. Running a Windows desktop PC has
| become increasingly annoying for users who must cope with spyware, adware,
| viruses, security patches, upgrades, crashes, reboots.
|
| [...]
|
| Visit the home of a Silicon Valley software programmer and you'll find
| two things: Macs and Linux boxes.
|
| To these guys, Windows has become the operating system equivalent of the
| America Online Internet service--a mass-market product that only appeals
| to people who don't know any better.
`----
http://www.forbes.com/2006/08/31/linux-opensource-vista_cz_dl_0831sled.html?partner=yahootix
There are many mistakes and myths in this article. You'll see them if you
read it.
====
Subject: [News] Windows Attacks on the Rise
Date: Fri, 01 Sep 2006 08:54:21 +0100
Uptick in Windows attacks reported
,----[ Quote ]
| Several security experts are warning of increased cyberattacks targeting
| Windows PCs, but Microsoft says all is calm on the attack front.
`----
http://news.zdnet.com/2100-1009_22-6111583.html
Microsoft also denies that the failure rate of the XBox 360 is 30-50% and
argues, based on their software, that only 2% of /their/ (yes, they own all
of Windows) PC's have malware. Other firm put it at the 90% mark.
There is _a lot_ of disinformation going on.
====
Subject: [News] Wintel (sic) to Sack 10,000 Employees
Date: Fri, 01 Sep 2006 08:55:41 +0100
Intel expected to cut thousands of jobs
,----[ Quote ]
| Intel Chief Executive Paul Otellini is expected to announce a massive
| layoff as soon as Tuesday that could eliminate as many as 10,000 jobs,
| CNET News.com has learned.
`----
http://news.zdnet.com/2100-9595_22-6111478.html
====
Subject: [News] Linux - Go All the Way Before Judging It
Date: Fri, 01 Sep 2006 09:19:22 +0100
The Value of Play
,----[ Quote ]
| I hate to be the bearer of bad tidings, but this simply isn?t going to
| work. Working with Linux does require having a sense of the value of
| play, and being willing to engage in it, even if that involves risk.
|
| My advice to anyone who is as nervous about moving from the Live CD state
| to an "installed" state is this; back up your critical files onto a USB
| key or writeable CD and go for it. Yes, there is an overhead if not all
| of your devices are instantly detected by Linux; to be perfectly honest,
| Linux is better at this than Windows. I have never been in a situation
| when I?ve installed Windows and not had to have a packet full of CDs
| with device drivers on them.
`----
http://www.linuxextremist.com/?p=99
I heard similar arguments in the context of VMWare. The other issue is an
assessment based on first reactions and incompatibility with 'Windows
habits', as bad as they may be.
====
Subject: [News] Social Activism to Stop DRM, Unethical Software
Date: Fri, 01 Sep 2006 09:23:15 +0100
FSF reaches out to social activists
,----[ Quote ]
| 2006 may be remembered as the year that the Free Software Foundation
| (FSF) reached out to the community. The FSF has already undertaken an
| unprecedented year-long consultation process about the revisions to the
| GNU General Public License, and the Defective By Design campaign against
| digital rights management technologies. Now, the FSF is planning a third
| campaign to deliver its message about ethical software to social
| activists outside the technical communities. "We think that social groups
| taking on policies about free software can act as a huge lever within
| schools, trade unions, local governments, and churches," says Peter
| Brown, executive director of the FSF.
`----
http://software.newsforge.com/article.pl?sid=06/08/31/158231&from=rss
====
Subject: [News] 80% of Computer Users Ready for GNU/Linux?
Date: Fri, 01 Sep 2006 09:26:15 +0100
Anybody But Microsoft
Diving into OpenOffice and Linux
,----[ Quote ]
| You can switch from Microsoft because of philosophical reasons, or you
| can switch for financial or security reasons. Realize some users must
| keep Windows and Microsoft Office, but you can switch 80% of your users
| to Linux and Open Source alternatives easier today than ever before.
`----
http://www.networkworld.com/newsletters/sbt/2006/0828smbtech1.html
====
Subject: [News] Linux Chosen by Vendors Not Only in Technical Sector
Date: Fri, 01 Sep 2006 09:30:27 +0100
BI Vendors Get Smart Around Linux, Open Source
,----[ Quote ]
| As Linux steps beyond the limits of technical applications, business
| intelligence (BI) is one area that's leading the way. In a rash of recent
| I announcements at LinuxWorld and elsewhere, many vendors are developing
| new business models, while consciously giving customers a choice between
| Linux and other operating systems--and in some cases, between commercial
| and open source implementations, too.
`----
http://www.linuxplanet.com/linuxplanet/reports/6305/1/
====
Subject: [News] On Compliance to Proprietary Formats
Date: Fri, 01 Sep 2006 09:36:43 +0100
Three Feet from Gold: Why ESR is Wrong to Advocate Compromise
,----[ Quote ]
| But if multimedia codecs are the problem, then we have, in my opinion,
| the solution. We have the free codecs Ogg Vorbis and Ogg Theora. Instead
| of spending money buying technology from Apple and others, which ESR
| admits we'll have to do, we should invest it in improving the Ogg codecs.
| Instead time and energy trying to convince them why they should work with
| us, we should spend it convincing the American commercial networks and the
| European state owned radio and television corporations why they should
| offer Ogg Vorbis along with the other formats. Then we would have a
| player that wouldn't get us sued, which seems to be the principal
| motivation behind ESR's willingness to compromise.
|
| And a bad compromise it would be. To sign on to proprietary codecs
| means signing on to Digital Rights Management. Have we gone so far to
| now cave in to the MPAA and the RIAA? And with the Linux desktop at
| its highest level of usability, to do this know would be truly stopping
| three feet from gold.
`----
http://www.linux.org/news/opinion/three_feet.html
====
Subject: [News] No Choice in Vista, Music Mandatory
Date: Fri, 01 Sep 2006 14:31:36 +0100
Vista start-up music compulsory
,----[ Quote ]
| The almighty Microsoft has decided that guitarist Robert Fripp?s work on
| the opening tune for Vista is so good, it will be compulsory and won't
| be able to be switched off.
|
| Steve Ball, group program manager for the Windows Audio Video Excellence
| team told punters that Windows Vista should present a "common, and
| beautiful, face to the world." In other words, Microsoft has spent
| shedloads on its corporate image and you are darn well going to
| appreciate it.
`----
http://www.theinquirer.net/default.aspx?article=34094
...Speaking of controlling and arrogantly making decisions on behalf of the
user. This includes WGA and Internet Explorer 7, which are 'high priority'
updates.
====
Subject: [News] Microsoft Flushes Live Search (Or "Windows Live is Dead")
Date: Fri, 01 Sep 2006 14:35:33 +0100
Windows Live Search Vanishes
,----[ Quote ]
| A visit to search.live.com only returns a "Service unavailable message,"
| and the link to Search Only from Live.com delivers a very
| pedestrian-looking search form. Search results look about the same as
| those on MSN Search.
`----
http://www.webpronews.com/insiderreports/searchinsider/wpn-49-20060901WindowsLiveSearchVanishes.html
Another miserable failure. I'm sure Microsoft will put a spin on that, just
as it defends the colossal losses on the XBox 360 and denies the 30-50%
failures rates
As I mentioned earlier, Microsoft claims that only 1 in 50 Windows PC's has
malware. Other studies estimate it's more like 8/9 out of 10. Money can earn
a timeslot for disinformation, as always.
====
Subject: [News] Killer NIC Runs Linux
Date: Fri, 01 Sep 2006 14:41:52 +0100
Bigfoot's Killer Network Interface Card reviewed
,----[ Quote ]
| They've managed to take a commodity PC component and build $280 PCI
| card around it, complete with 64MB of DDR RAM and a 400MHz processor.
| Cries of extortion and vaporware have been leveled, but now that IGN have
| got their hands on the device, they seem to think it's worth the
| hyperbole. One thing they were careful to point out before firing it up is
| that the Killer NIC runs Linux, so that processor and RAM can be put to
| more use than just routing your frags -- a firewall or a bit of anti-virus
| software could reside right on the card to check over data before it
| even gets to your PC, and IGN figures a BitTorrent client would be
| possible, allowing for full-speed gaming while you use any remaining
| bandwidth for downloading that dev release of Leopard.
`----
http://www.engadget.com/2006/09/01/bigfoots-killer-network-interface-card-reviewed/
====
Subject: [News] Sending Perfectly-Capable PC's to the Dumpster
Date: Fri, 01 Sep 2006 14:48:02 +0100
Old PCs a Growing IT Headache
,----[ Quote ]
| Many older systems will start looking a bit creaky next year. In early
| 2007, Microsoft's delivery of its next-generation operating system, Vista,
| will be in full force and many older PCs won't have the specs to run it
| effectively.
|
| "Vista's one of those events that cause a refresh cycle," said O'Grady.
| "We see the newer, 64-bit and dual-core systems ready for Vista and the
| degradation of older assets will follow."
`----
http://www.internetnews.com/ent-news/article.php/3629541
A culture of waste makes the vendors happy, at the expense of people's wallet
and the environment. Similar scenario in the fashion industry.
====
Subject: [News] ITWeek Approves Ubuntu Linux as Valid Windows Altenative
Date: Fri, 01 Sep 2006 14:55:34 +0100
Tested: Ubuntu Linux
,----[ Quote]
| The latest version of Ubuntu Linux is a user-friendly Windows
| desktop alternative
`----
http://www.itweek.co.uk/itweek/software/2163350/tested-ubuntu-linux
Nothing but positive feedback.
====
Subject: [News] Bergen Dismisses FUD, Carries on City-Wide Migration to GNU/Linux
Date: Fri, 01 Sep 2006 14:59:34 +0100
Bergen postpones desktop Linux migration
Open source council insists its Linux plans are on track
,----[ Quote ]
| Bergen City Council in Norway has hit back at reports that it has
| abandoned its flagship Linux migration project, branding them
| "exaggerated" and insisting it has completed plans to move many of
| its servers over to Linux.
`----
http://www.itweek.co.uk/itweek/news/2163379/bergen-postpones-desktop-linux
====
Subject: [News] Philippines Moving to Free Open Source S/W in Education
Date: Fri, 01 Sep 2006 15:04:19 +0100
CICT drafts educational open source strategy
,----[ Quote ]
| One of the components of FINE is the distribution of a Free and Open
| Source Software (FOSS) CD Kit that contains about a dozen open
| source alternatives to proprietary applications.
|
| These applications include OpenOffice (alternative to Microsoft
| Office), Scribus DTP (alternative to Microsoft Publisher), NVU Web
| Authoring, 3D modeling software Blender (alternative to the more
| expensive Maya), Firefox (alternative to proprietary Web browsers),
| among others.
|
| [...]
|
| Another is the eQuality program that provides open source training
| to students from state colleges and universities.
`----
http://technology.inq7.net/infotech/infotech/view_article.php?article_id=18508
====
Subject: [News] "Open Source is Powerful, Frictionless, and Seductive"
Date: Fri, 01 Sep 2006 15:07:11 +0100
Open Source Apps Broadening the Human Resources World
,----[ Quote ]
| Software is ultimately composed of congealed ideas, so ideas are very
| important in the minds of software developers. The key to market power in
| the software industry lies in the minds of developers. Fashion plays a
| role too; some ideas are fashionable and some are not. The idea, or
| philosophy, of open source is powerful, frictionless, and seductive.
|
| Linux and other open source Latest News about open source applications
| are finding increasing acceptance in the global marketplace by small
| and large companies alike. Statistics on the growth of a few open source
| programs -- like Apache (a Web server), Linux (an operating system),
| FreeBSD (an operating system), and PostgreSQL (a database server) --
| demonstrate this. This column considers why open source is growing so
| fast, and what it means to human resources professionals.
`----
http://www.technewsworld.com/story/52761.html
====
Subject: [News] Sony Ericsson Dives Into OSS, Joins Eclipse Community
Date: Fri, 01 Sep 2006 15:08:53 +0100
Sony Ericsson Joins Open Source Community
,----[ Quote ]
| Sony Ericsson announced that it is joining the Eclipse community as
| Add-in Provider Member. By becoming an Add-in Provider, Sony Ericsson aims
| to contribute to the Eclipse ecosystem through creating Eclipse plug-ins
| of benefit to the global mobile application developer community.
`----
http://in.sys-con.com/read/267068.htm
====
Subject: [News] Vista's Marketing Mistakes
Date: Fri, 01 Sep 2006 15:24:33 +0100
Vista Transition: Microsoft Should Take a Lesson from Apple
,----[ Quote ]
| Opinion: The looming choice for Windows users is either to stick with
| Windows XP (and older hardware) or take Windows Vista cold turkey.
| But Microsoft doesn't have to be so tough--Apple did it differently with
| the Mac OS X rollout.
|
| [...]
|
| Most small business users and of course, consumers, will be migrated by
| fiat. These are the very customers who have forgotten (or never
| understood, more like it) the terms of license for the OS on their
| machines.
|
| Worse, this group believes they will be able to pop in the install discs
| for XP on their new machine and everything will be as it was. Not.
`----
http://www.eweek.com/article2/0,1895,2010942,00.asp
Even that $900 million advertising budget (braishwash) for Vista won't be
able to save it.
Nice Gentoo screenshot: http://securitydot.net/viewscreen/30.html
====
Subject: [News] Federal Commission on Higher Education Manipulated by Microsoft
Date: Fri, 01 Sep 2006 15:32:05 +0100
Changing the Report, After the Vote
,----[ Quote ]
| That agreement was nearly imperiled last weekend, though. Gerri
| Elliott, corporate vice president at Microsoft's Worldwide Public
| Sector division, sent an e-mail message to fellow commissioners Friday
| evening saying that she "vigorously" objected to a paragraph in which
| the panel embraced and encouraged the development of open source software
| and open content projects in higher education. The paragraph read like
| this:
|
| "The commission encourages the creation of incentives to promote
| the development of open-source and open-content projects at universities
| and colleges across the United States, enabling the open sharing of
| educational materials from a variety of institutions, disciplines, and
| educational perspectives. Such a portal could stimulate innovation, and
| serve as the leading resource for teaching and learning. New initiatives
| such as OpenCourseWare, the Open Learning Initiative, the Sakai Project,
| and the Google Book project hold out the potential of providing universal
| access both to general knowledge and to higher education."
`----
http://insidehighered.com/news/2006/09/01/commission
There you go! Microsoft demands that the Fedral Government disregards Open
Source. Microsoft _is_ above the law.
====
Subject: [News] Got Windows Problems? Spend More Money
Date: Fri, 01 Sep 2006 15:44:56 +0100
Ways to unclog children's too-slow, spyware-stuffed IBM laptops
,----[ Quote ]
| Q. I am at my wits' end with my two sons' IBM laptop computers that are
| riddled with spyware and viruses to the extent that the computers are
| almost unusable.
|
| [...]
|
| I have purchased software that takes care of viruses and software that
| takes care of spyware, but it never seemed to work the way it should. I
| don't want to add more software to the mix and would rather have a disk
| that I can use on any computer that disinfects the entire machine. They
| have so much garbage on their computers that I feel adding an
| anti-virus/anti-spyware program will just complicate things.
`----
http://www.belleville.com/mld/belleville/living/15414766.htm
====
Subject: [News] Windows Users Unaware of What is Missed
Date: Fri, 01 Sep 2006 15:47:51 +0100
Windows Switchers Should Like New Mac
,----[ Quote ]
| But many Windows users don't know what it's like to use a Mac.
|
| Big picture: You'll love it. But going to a Mac does come with its own
| unique set of challenges.
|
| Using a Mac is far less frustrating than using a Windows-based computer.
| Macs seem less prone to crashing and freezing up; in five years of using
| a Mac, it's never happened to me.
`----
Replace "Mac" with "Linux" and the article will still deliver truth.
====
Subject: [News] React OS Reviewed, Run Under Linux
Date: Fri, 01 Sep 2006 15:52:55 +0100
React OS: Windows done right
,----[ Quote ]
| Even in its rather early 0.3.0 release React OS is quite capable. It can
| run alot of well known applications such as OpenOffice.org and AbiWord,
| and even supports OpenGL allowing you to play some 3D games.
`----
http://www.nuxified.org/react_os_windows_done_right
====
Subject: [News] Linux Conquers Phones Industry
Date: Fri, 01 Sep 2006 15:57:23 +0100
Convergent Linux Platform: Tux for Your Phone
,----[ Quote ]
| A la Mobile is not the only company interested in providing a complete
| Linux based mobile solution; big shots such as Motorola, Panasonic,
| DoCoMo, NEC, Samsung, Vodafone and even PalmSource have declared their
| support. Motorola even has a few models based on Linux such as A780,
| E680 and E895. PalmSource has declared the development of a stack
| called Access Linux Platform (ALP) which we will discuss in another
| article. According to industry sources, A la Mobile is expected to
| ship phones based on its CLP sometime in September.
`----
http://www.osweekly.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=2315&Itemid=468
====
Subject: [News] Another Red Hat Certificate Debuts, Addresses Demand for Linux Professionals
Date: Fri, 01 Sep 2006 16:00:37 +0100
Red Hat Certified Architect Debuts in ASEAN
,----[ Quote ]
| "The proliferation of enterprise Linux adoption in this region over the
| last two years has driven a high demand for certified Linux professionals,"
| said Jamie Pride, Director of Asia Pacific Services for Red Hat. "With
| RHCA, IT professionals will acquire the skills necessary to plan, design
| and manage open source infrastructure in large complex environments
| consisting of many Linux systems across the enterprise."
`----
http://www.sda-asia.com/sda/features/psecom,id,564,srn,2,nodeid,4,_language,Singapore.html
====
Subject: [News] Hong Kong Government Goes for OpenDocument Format
Date: Sat, 02 Sep 2006 02:23:25 +0100
From Groklaw:
Hong Kong Government Recognizes ODF As A Recommended Standard in
Interoperability Framework
,----[ Quote ]
| ODF has been added to the the Hong Kong Government's Interoperability
| Framework (IF) as a recommended standard for use in the areas of
| "Formatted document file type for collaborative editing", "Presentationf
| ile type for collaborative editing, " and "Spreadsheet file type for
| collaborative editing." The IF, which was revised in March 2006
| (version 4.0) and defines a collection of specifications aimed at
| facilitating the interoperability of government systems and services,
| had not previously included ODF as a recommended standard. Multiple
| specifications are recognized in certain interoperability areas,
| including collaborative editing.
`----
http://www.ogcio.gov.hk/eng/infra/download/s18.pdf
====
Subject: [News] Linux Runs on Palm Tungsten (Video)
Date: Sat, 02 Sep 2006 02:33:34 +0100
Palm Tungsten E runing (sic) Linux
I remember Linux booting on the Palm over a year ago, but have a look at a
fully-functional desktop on an inexpensive-yet-powerful handheld.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ESCqQdsIoLI
====
Subject: [News] Red Hat Further Expands to Reach Banking Industry
Date: Sat, 02 Sep 2006 02:35:38 +0100
Nucleus Software Certifies FinnOne Suite Applications On Red Hat Enterprise
Linux
,----[ Quote ]
| Red Hat announced that Nucleus Software has joined Red Hat's
| Independent Software Vendor (ISV) partner ecosystem. Nucleus Software
| is a leading provider of software solutions for the banking and financial
| services industry. The applications from Nucleus now certified on Red Hat
| Enterprise Linux are FinnOne Customer Acquisition System (CAS), FinnOne
| Loans Management Systems and FinnOne Collections. Nucleus and its
| flagship product FinnOne have had over 200 successful implementations
| across the globe and the company's client base includes leading names in
| the banking and financial services industry.
`----
http://linux.sys-con.com/read/267070.htm
====
Subject: [News] OLPC Linux Laptop to Ridicule MS Tablet PC's
Date: Sat, 02 Sep 2006 02:38:22 +0100
2B1 to ridicule Microsoft Tablet PC with instant boot, Webcam, SD Slot, VoIP,
Router, 2W power consumption
,----[ Quote ]
| Things are getting hot for the One Laptop Per Child project. According
| to various sources, it looks like Brazil is going to be the first country
| to receive the first million laptops ou (sic) there.
`----
http://opensourceblog.itproportal.com/?p=156
====
Subject: [News] Mac OS Users Get Open Source Cockpit
Date: Sat, 02 Sep 2006 02:40:20 +0100
MacLibre2 Installs Open Source Apps For You
,----[ Quote ]
| MacLibre announced the immediate availability of MacLibre2 on Friday.
| MacLibre2 acts as a one-stop front end for locating and installing
| open source applications on your Mac. It includes installation links
| for Audacity, Adium, Cyberduck, Firefox, Thunderbird, VirtueDesktops,
| and more. Each application includes a description, version number, file
| size, and a link to the application's Web site. MacLibre2 is free, and
| available for download at the MacLibre Web site.
`----
http://www.macobserver.com/article/2006/09/01.5.shtml
====
Subject: [News] Free Open Source Discussed in United Nations Meeting
Date: Sat, 02 Sep 2006 02:44:04 +0100
Debating Open-Source Software at the U.N.
,----[ Quote ]
| Mr. Stallman does not like Microsoft. Wow, does he not. He mentioned
| that when the U.N. sent him the information about the panel in a
| Microsoft Word document, he refused it and requested a different format.
| During the panel, he called Microsoft evil, said that the U.S. government
| is in Microsoft's pocket, and at one point faced the Microsoft guy and
| shouted, right there in the United Nations conference room, "You are a
| deceptive person!"
`----
http://pogue.blogs.nytimes.com/?cat=16
====
Subject: [News] Even AOL Contributes to Open Source *GASP*
Date: Sat, 02 Sep 2006 02:46:42 +0100
AOL Kicks In Dojo Support
,----[ Quote ]
| Involvement and support of the Dojo Foundation will help further the usage
| of Ajax technology by developers in open source projects.
|
| [...]
|
| AOL has been involved with Dojo since February 2006. The company provided
| hosting for Dojo, and donated a JavaScript Compiler tool, which analyzes
| JavaScript code and conducts operations on that analysis, such as strip
| unused code or provide metrics on call patterns.
|
| Support from AOL for Dojo will continue. The online services firm
| announced today it would help further Ajax and JavaScript adoption in
| the open source community. AOL cited Forrester Research on the rise of
| open source usage, with 55 percent of American companies using open
| source technology in mission critical applications.
`----
http://www.newcybertech.com/Blog/2006/09/01/aol-kicks-in-dojo-support/
====
Subject: [News] NYT on Apple-Google Versus Unethical Empire
Date: Sat, 02 Sep 2006 02:50:40 +0100
An Apple-Google Friendship, and a Common Enemy
,----[ Quote ]
| She did not even need to name the enemy she had in mind: Microsoft,
| the leading rival to both Mr. Jobs and Mr. Schmidt through most of their
| careers. Now, with the Internet era remaking the competitive landscape,
| their prospects for outdueling Microsoft's Windows empire may be better
| than ever.
`----
====
Subject: [News] iPod Management Made Easy in Linux
Date: Sat, 02 Sep 2006 02:56:44 +0100
Floola: iPods and Linux just got easier
,----[ Quote ]
| Its no secret that Spoozer Men's Magazine has been built on an Ubuntu
| Linux box. I did it to show other designers that, yes, a nice fully
| functional website can be created and designed under Linux (plus a
| little help form Crossover Office). And now I am going to show you that
| ipod management can be just as easy, if not easier than itunes + Windows.
`----
http://www.spoozer.com/2006/09/01/floola-ipods-and-linux-just-got-easier/
====
Subject: [News] Reviving Old Game Consoles Using Linux
Date: Sat, 02 Sep 2006 03:00:50 +0100
Gentoo 2006.1: A Thing of Dreams?
,----[ Quote ]
| The release also offers support for an interesting processor, the Hitachi
| SuperH, which is included in Sega's long-dead Dreamcast game console.
`----
http://www.internetnews.com/dev-news/article.php/3629816
This prevents /waste/. Even old XBox units can be turned into a
Web/computational server. Same with legacy hardware.
====
Subject: [News] Gentoo 2006.1 Review
Date: Sat, 02 Sep 2006 03:05:27 +0100
Gentoo 2006.1
2006.1 Additions & Improvements (incomplete)
* Addition of AMD64 Live Installer CD
* Updated Installer with Networkless Mode & Improved Partitioner
* GCC upgraded from 3.4.6 to 4.1.1
* Official support for Apple G5 Dual Core Systems
* Experimental SuperH Stages
* Based on the 2.6.17-r5 Kernel
* Improved drivers / better hardware detection
http://www.techgage.com/article/gentoo_20061
====
Subject: [News] K/Ubuntu Edgy Knot 2 is Released
Date: Sat, 02 Sep 2006 03:07:45 +0100
,----[ Quote ]
| Edgy, all about cutting edge, perhaps bleeding edge, will consist of
| brand new code and infrastructure. The time has come to introduce some
| seriously interesting, but definitely edgy, new technologies that lay
| the groundwork for the next wave of Ubuntu development.
`----
https://wiki.kubuntu.org/EdgyEft/Knot2/Kubuntu
====
Subject: [News] Hypocrisy: Microsoft Whines about Design Ripoff
Date: Sat, 02 Sep 2006 03:29:34 +0100
Microsoft Cries Foul At Stolen Interface
,----[ Quote ]
| Microsoft Expo's project leader, Garry Wiseman, wrote a blog post
| earlier today criticizing Sina, one of China's largest search engines,
| saying "Sina.com steals our design and graphics".
`----
http://www.techcrunch.com/2006/09/01/microsoft-cries-foul-at-stolen-interface/
Among examples of rippoff/thefts:
http://digg.com/linux_unix/Microsoft_blatantly_steals_Ubuntu_logo
http://digg.com/linux_unix/Microsoft_s_Urge_Rips_Off_Linux_Icons_
http://photomatt.net/2005/09/10/poetry-is-microsoft/
http://schestowitz.com/Weblog/archives/2005/09/13/microsoft-steal-gui/
http://schestowitz.com/Weblog/archives/2005/07/11/longhorn-beta-screenshots/
http://schestowitz.com/Weblog/archives/2005/09/19/windows-open-source/
Let's not forget the ODF 'plugin', among so many other instances.
====
Subject: [News] Linux Puts Old Hardware to Use, as Router
Date: Sat, 02 Sep 2006 03:31:53 +0100
Old PC To New Router With Gentoo Linux
,----[ Quote ]
| Don't throw that old PC away just yet, it still has some life in it yet.
| No matter how bad your old PC is it can always be used as a router, and
| your old router as a switch. All you need is two nic cards for it.
`----
http://cyber-knowledge.net/blog/2006/09/01/old-pc-to-new-router-with-gentoo-linux/
====
Subject: [News] Praise Microsoft and Get a Taste of Reality
Date: Sat, 02 Sep 2006 03:40:19 +0100
Praising Microsoft - and attacked by wolves
,----[ Snippets ]
| "That you can use the word 'virtue' in the same sentence as 'Microsoft'
| is clear indication that you haven't a clue. Then again, you do write
| for Fortune, so your alliance no doubt leans toward corporations and
| shareholders rather than users," wrote Walter Bazzini, whose Web
| site, perhaps revealingly, is entitled "Misanthrope Manor."
|
| "You sound as if you're suffering from 'Stockholm Syndrome,'" wrote
| Ken Davies. "Microsoft has actually set all of us back by years and
| possibly by decades."
|
| "Your painfully revisionist history makes you sound like one of
| the 20-something journalists who wasn't actually around since the 80s,"
| wrote Norman Gilmore, who really knows how to hurt a guy.
|
| Some of the letters were not only passionate but extremely well written
| and thoughtful. Here's more, for example, from Gilmore, who neatly
| summarizes the objections of quite a few writers:
|
| "Gee, I thought ARPA funded the research leading to TCP/IP, Tim
| Berners-Lee invented the Web, and Marc Andreessen led the creation of
| the graphical browser at [the University of Illinois]. I thought Apple
| started the personal computing revolution, Xerox invented graphical
| interfaces and IBM invented the PC. Microsoft BASIC - oh yeah, a
| language invented at Dartmouth by Kemeny and Kurtz. MS-DOS? Tim
| Patterson wrote what became MS-DOS, itself a CP/M clone.
|
| "And THEN Bill Gates wrote his famous memo, which summarized as -
| 'WHOOPS - THE INTERNET - OH NO! WE'RE BEHIND!' "
`----
http://biz.yahoo.com/hftn/060901/090106_fastforward_microsoft_fortune.html?.v=1
====
Subject: [News] Internet Under Increased Level of Attacks by Windows Zombies, Microsoft Not Concerned
Date: Sat, 02 Sep 2006 03:45:27 +0100
Microsoft lax on newest attacks
,----[ Quote ]
| Several security experts are warning of increased cyberattacks that
| target Windows PCs, including those that try to turn computers into
| zombies. Microsoft, however, says all is calm on the attack front.
`----
http://news.com.com/1606-2_3-6111868.html?part=rss&tag=6111868&subj=news
====
Subject: [News] Quanta Can Unleash 10 Million Linux Boxes in One Year, Follow OLPC's Footsteps
Date: Sat, 02 Sep 2006 03:54:14 +0100
Quanta plans 10m $100 PCs in 12 months
,----[ Quote ]
| As for software, the $100 laptop will run a variant of Linux and
| maybe Windows and OS X if the right deals and designs can be done
| with Microsoft and Apple. A web browser and basic apps will be
| bundled.
|
| [...]
|
| According to Digitimes, Quanta president Michael Wang believes 10 million
| can be made from the 12-month period starting at the end of the first
| calendar quarter next year. Production will be in China and then
| maybe eastern Europe.
`----
http://www.theinquirer.net/default.aspx?article=34105
http://www.digitimes.com/systems/a20060831A2004.html
====
Subject: [News] Another Uber-Vista-Capable Laptop Explodes
Date: Sat, 02 Sep 2006 04:01:31 +0100
Dell laptop detonates in UK home
,----[ Quote ]
| A Leicestershire family was this left in shock after their Dell
| laptop exploded "like fireworks" and set light to their living room
| furniture, it was reported this week - just before news broke of
| Sony's decision to appoint a battery safety officer.
`----
http://www.reghardware.co.uk/2006/09/01/dell_laptop_combustion_uk/
Good as context:
Fires and Laptops and Batteries, Oh My!
,----[ Quote ]
| The dirty little secret of the PC industry is that most users don't need
| as much of the processing power and energy usage as they are presently
| consuming; the Windows / Intel cycle of creating an ever larger operating
| system which requires ever more processing power to use it is creating
| this situation. Users just are not aware of alternatives, and alternatives
| are not presented to them; there's big business in keeping them in the
| hamster wheel of hardware and software replacement. There's not enough of
| a sales story for people like Microsoft in saying their latest product
| will be more efficient in its use of resources, as opposed to having
| more novelty.
`----
http://www.linuxextremist.com/?p=97
====
Subject: [News] (Dupe-Yet-Noteworthy) Microsoft Ignores Zombies, Changes Federal Reports
Date: Sat, 02 Sep 2006 04:12:42 +0100
Microsoft Downplays Malware Warnings
http://news.yahoo.com/s/pcworld/20060901/tc_pcworld/127017
Microsoft Attempts to Quash OSS Recommendations
http://politics.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=06/09/01/1418252&from=rss
====
Subject: [News] Motorola's Linux-powered Phone Reviewed
Date: Sat, 02 Sep 2006 04:25:08 +0100
Another look at Mot's Linux-powered Rokr E2 cellphone
,----[ Quote ]
| Praising the device's version 8.50 Opera Mobile browser, Loli-Queru
| writes that it "worked fast, scrolled fast, never ran out of memory ...
| and rendered everything as expected." Although, a couple of minor
| problems were also noted. Another strong point was the phone's filem
| anager, about which she writes, "I absolutely love the power you get
| from this seemingly simple file manager."
`----
http://www.linuxdevices.com/news/NS2254538084.html
====
Subject: [News] Microsoft is All About the Lawyers (And "Advertisers, Advertisers, Advertisers")
Date: Sat, 02 Sep 2006 04:06:44 +0100
Microsoft unleashes its super lawyer for EU case
,----[ Quote ]
| Convicted monopolist Microsoft has decided that the only way it can
| handle those nasty types in the EU who want it to hand over large sums
| in fines is to appoint an extra strong lawyer.
`----
http://www.theinquirer.net/default.aspx?article=34111
To explain the subject line:
http://youtube.com/watch?v=fj3FOHc-fgA
("Steve Ballmer: Advertisers, Advertisers, Advertisers")
====
Subject: [News] Xen, Open Source Hypervisor, Gets Wider Support
Date: Sat, 02 Sep 2006 05:01:28 +0100
Xen's List of Brand-Name Support Steadily Growing
,----[ Quote ]
| Sun Microsystems (Nasdaq: SUNW) Latest News about Sun Microsystems
| has already committed to supporting Xen in its OpenSolaris operating
| system this year, and in Solaris in 2007. Red Hat said it will support Xen
| in its new Enterprise Linux 5 distribution, due out this December.
|
| As Xen moves more into the mixed workload environment, however, it's
| bumping into market incumbent VMware. VMware Vice President Brian Byun
| publicly dismissed XenSource's tie-up with Microsoft as a "one-way
| street" that favors Microsoft. XenSource's Crosby countered, calling
| VMware's characterization "the gut reaction from a wounded animal."
`----
http://www.linuxinsider.com/rsstory/52779.html
Vitualisation is said to be a huge growth opportunity for Linux.
====
Subject: [News] Enormous Momentum for Open Source (and Linux), According to IDC
Date: Sat, 02 Sep 2006 04:27:48 +0100
Not a new study, but a new article.
,----[ Quote ]
| The results of the study indicate that open-source software is
| currently being used by 71 percent of developers worldwide, according
| to IDC. Additionally, open-source software software is "in production"
| at 54 percent of the surveyed developers' organizations. Furthermore,
| half the surveyed developers said that the use of open-source in
| their organizations is increasing.
`----
http://www.linuxdevices.com/news/NS8982719739.html
====
Subject: [News] Rockbox Makes Your Audio Player an Open Source PC
Date: Sat, 02 Sep 2006 04:36:34 +0100
Review: Rockbox - The Open Source Jukebox Firmware
,----[ Quote ]
| Rockbox is a replacement firmware for various audio players, that opens
| up new features and fixes devices shortcomings. We don't think of these
| devices as personal computers, but they are; and Rockbox is an
| alternative operating system.
`----
http://www.osnews.com/story.php?news_id=15698
====
Subject: [News] Internet Explorer 7 is Spyware
Date: Sat, 02 Sep 2006 06:11:31 +0100
Just worth clarifying this.
Not only does it send Microsoft a list of pages you visit, but it also
enables Microsoft to extend its monopoly and use it for search technologies.
No wonder Internet Explorer 7 was made a high priority update. Security?
Security my ass. They just want to spy on every Web surfer.
====
Subject: [News] Relying on a Closed-Source Software Vendor - Cost: $0.3 Billion
Date: Sat, 02 Sep 2006 07:02:00 +0100
Software Delay Said to Cost IRS $318 Million in Overpaid Refunds
,----[ Quote ]
| The Internal Revenue Service gave away $318 million in improper refunds
| this year because a computer program that screens tax returns for fraud
| was not working, according to a report released yesterday.
|
| [...]
|
| The IRS had contracted with Computer Sciences Corp. to update the program,
| but the contractor could not produce a working program by the deadline. The
| old program could not be put back into operation in time for the spring
| 2006 tax-filing deadline.
`----
====
--
| Mark Kent -- mark at ellandroad dot demon dot co dot uk |
I hate babies. They're so human.
-- H.H. Munro
![[H]omer's profile photo](http://lh3.googleusercontent.com/a-/ALV-UjWMQWyYwHeIwxhG3nGUeGWmLQD0R8TeZrvdWDiv5-2S_z3rHg=s40-c)
[H]omer
<snip massive post>
I like Roy's posts, but I don't read them all; the subject is usually
enough for me to decide what is interesting.
Conversely, a digest post requires that I read through the whole message
to find topics of interest. This is time consuming, laborious, and not
very helpful.
I realise that there are a few (mainly Trolls) who object to Roy
bombarding the group with such a high volume of pro-Linux/anti-Windows
material, but it is all mainly on topic and good advocacy. I can't help
but feel that you've succumbed to some kind of pressure to appease the
Trolls; who in the face of overwhelming evidence of Linux's
achievements, and Microsoft's failures; have little left to advocate
other than personal attacks and whining about Roy's methods. The ghost
town that was c.o.m-w.advocacy is evidence enough of that.
This is an unmoderated group, and I'm no Net cop (just expressing an
opinion), but huge posts like yours are considered bad netiquette, and
at least should be tagged with the [LONG] flag. Digest posts work for
mailing lists only, and are frankly not really appropriate for Usenet.
Now in defence of the antagonists:
Personally I would much rather that messages on this list comprised
mainly of first-hand opinion, rather than news items regurgitated
verbatim. As some have already suggested, sometimes it does look like
Roy has simply plugged an RSS feed into a local INN server. Now we all
quote from websites, and Roy does usually draw a brief conclusion to
each article, but I agree that the format can be objectionable, even if
I do agree with most of its contents.
Looking back at how this group used to be before Roy's appearance, there
are proportionately far fewer Troll posts now, and frankly I'd rather
see a thousand of his messages than even one from idiots like
Jean-Francois Mezei or Gary M. Stewart. Maybe he has taken a
sledgehammer to crack a nut, but it works, and that's good enough for me.
--
K.
http://slated.org - Slated, Rated & Blogged
This message has not been photoshopped in any way.
Fedora Core release 5 (Bordeaux) on sky, running kernel 2.6.16-1.2133_FC5
14:10:33 up 76 days, 14:27, 5 users, load average: 0.69, 0.75, 0.73
Hadron Quark
> Mark Kent wrote:
> <snip massive post>
>
> I like Roy's posts, but I don't read them all; the subject is usually
> enough for me to decide what is interesting.
>
> Conversely, a digest post requires that I read through the whole message
> to find topics of interest. This is time consuming, laborious, and not
> very helpful.
Rubbish. A single digest is much easier to read. Or "digest". You can
also tag it for further perusal - much easier than tagging 300 articles.
>
> I realise that there are a few (mainly Trolls) who object to Roy
> bombarding the group with such a high volume of pro-Linux/anti-Windows
> material, but it is all mainly on topic and good advocacy. I can't help
> but feel that you've succumbed to some kind of pressure to appease the
> Trolls; who in the face of overwhelming evidence of Linux's
> achievements, and Microsoft's failures; have little left to advocate
> other than personal attacks and whining about Roy's methods. The ghost
> town that was c.o.m-w.advocacy is evidence enough of that.
Or common sense. I would peruse a digest and find the headings of
interest - as it is I kill all [News] tags since they swamp the inbox.
yttrx
> I realise that there are a few (mainly Trolls) who object to Roy
> bombarding the group
Operative phrase "bombarding the group". Thanks, homer, you've just
made the point for me.
>
> This is an unmoderated group, and I'm no Net cop (just expressing an
> opinion), but huge posts like yours are considered bad netiquette, and
> at least should be tagged with the [LONG] flag. Digest posts work for
> mailing lists only, and are frankly not really appropriate for Usenet.
>
You just completely fucking made that up, dickhead. Theres never been any
rule about lenght of ascii posts in usenet, because since the late 80s
we've had something called "download headers only", and "how many bytes is
that post that I havent downloaded yet".
There was once a tiny bit of annoyance about very, very, very long posts
to usenet...(like when a friendly neighborhood MIT student decided to
forward the entirety of what used to happen back in the old days when you
fingered g...@heaven.org to usenet)...but that was because most of us where
accessing usenet with things like UUCP over acoustic couplers or serial
lines.
So bite me on that one, dorkus.
-----yttrx
Peter Hayes
(in article <87r6yuo...@mail.com>):
> "[H]omer" <sp...@uce.gov> writes:
>
>> Mark Kent wrote:
>> <snip massive post>
>>
>> I like Roy's posts, but I don't read them all; the subject is usually
>> enough for me to decide what is interesting.
>>
>> Conversely, a digest post requires that I read through the whole message
>> to find topics of interest. This is time consuming, laborious, and not
>> very helpful.
>
> Rubbish. A single digest is much easier to read. Or "digest". You can
> also tag it for further perusal - much easier than tagging 300 articles.
Why do you have to tag anything, are you still on dial-up?
--
Peter
Hadron Quark
A gnus thing : I generally only view unread - when I "tag" it keeps an
article active.
Mark Kent
Peter Hayes <not_i...@btinternet.com> espoused:
Odd, isn't it? Anyway, I'm happy to add the "long" moniker, as Homer
suggests, to avoid offending anyone.
If Mr Quark prefers a digest, then I'm happy to wait until Roy's posted
his pieces, assemble the digest and post it - it's no great issue for
me.
Anyone else have any thoughts?
[H]omer
> "[H]omer" <sp...@uce.gov> writes:
>> Mark Kent wrote:
>> <snip massive post>
>>
>> I like Roy's posts, but I don't read them all; the subject is usually
>> enough for me to decide what is interesting.
>>
>> Conversely, a digest post requires that I read through the whole message
>> to find topics of interest. This is time consuming, laborious, and not
>> very helpful.
> Rubbish. A single digest is much easier to read. Or "digest". You can
> also tag it for further perusal - much easier than tagging 300 articles.
So you think wading through 1432 lines of a digest post is quicker than
glancing at 60 subject lines?
You're an idiot.
Oh, and in reply to that other Troll, yttrx, who's ramblings I also
don't see, unless I use Google (Ref: Usenet netiquette):
No, there are no "rules", since unfortunately there's nobody to enforce
them. Netiquette is about a voluntary code of conduct on the Net (i.e.
good manners), something you are obviously incapable of.
Oh and I got a good laugh at your reference to the 80's, like you
personally invented the era, and everyone except for you on the Internet
is a spotty teenager who barely remembers last week, let alone 2.5
decades ago. Allow me to return your "compliment":
Think about *this* for a minute, fuckwit; what use is the "download
headers only" function, if you have to download the message body in
order to discover the subject lines of 60 posts, that would otherwise be
available as headers, if they hadn't been shovelled into a "digest"?
A digest is useful as a summary, but not as a substitute, unless this
were a mailing list and you chose to receive just one summary post per
day. Usenet is not Email; but of course you already knew that, since
you've been online for 400 years, right?
It's bullshit that anyone should feel coerced into summarising their
entire daily contribution to a newsgroup into a single digest, just to
appease scum like you and "Hardon". If you don't like it, then fuck off;
it's not like either of you contribute anything anyway, so trust me -
you won't be missed.
--
K.
http://slated.org - Slated, Rated & Blogged
This message has not been photoshopped in any way.
Fedora Core release 5 (Bordeaux) on sky, running kernel 2.6.16-1.2133_FC5
19:07:56 up 76 days, 19:24, 5 users, load average: 0.09, 0.55, 0.69
Hadron Quark
> On Sat, 2 Sep 2006 14:35:20 +0100, Hardon Quirk wrote
>
>> "[H]omer" <sp...@uce.gov> writes:
>>> Mark Kent wrote:
>
>>> <snip massive post>
>>>
>>> I like Roy's posts, but I don't read them all; the subject is usually
>>> enough for me to decide what is interesting.
>>>
>>> Conversely, a digest post requires that I read through the whole message
>>> to find topics of interest. This is time consuming, laborious, and not
>>> very helpful.
>
>> Rubbish. A single digest is much easier to read. Or "digest". You can
>> also tag it for further perusal - much easier than tagging 300 articles.
>
> So you think wading through 1432 lines of a digest post is quicker than
> glancing at 60 subject lines?
If its a proper digest yes : one line summary and a hot link. Its quite
a common concept you might be familiar : basically a table of contents
with links to the in details information.
>
> You're an idiot.
Sure : and you dont even know what I'm talking about. And I'm the idiot?
LOL.
>
> Oh, and in reply to that other Troll, yttrx, who's ramblings I also
> don't see, unless I use Google (Ref: Usenet netiquette):
yttrx is a true linux advocate you sad little man.
>
> No, there are no "rules", since unfortunately there's nobody to enforce
> them. Netiquette is about a voluntary code of conduct on the Net (i.e.
> good manners), something you are obviously incapable of.
Err, and yet its Roy that spams the NG because he can. Do you have
comprehension issues?
>
> Oh and I got a good laugh at your reference to the 80's, like you
> personally invented the era, and everyone except for you on the Internet
> is a spotty teenager who barely remembers last week, let alone 2.5
> decades ago. Allow me to return your "compliment":
Sorry? Link please : you've lost me.
>
> Think about *this* for a minute, fuckwit; what use is the "download
> headers only" function, if you have to download the message body in
> order to discover the subject lines of 60 posts, that would otherwise be
> available as headers, if they hadn't been shovelled into a "digest"?
Are you really so stupid? Subject == "Digest" or somethign similar, hit
space, download it. tag it, Browse it at leisure. Easy.
>
> A digest is useful as a summary, but not as a substitute, unless this
Its not a substitute you dickhead : it contains the links to all the
original posts which he has copied from other sites anyway.
> were a mailing list and you chose to receive just one summary post per
> day. Usenet is not Email; but of course you already knew that, since
> you've been online for 400 years, right?
Who are you replying to? I think you should learn to quote properly and
use a newsreader before you start slinging insults around you
nOOb. Incidentally, thats *exactly* why such email lists exist - to
prevent spamming of forums and NGs. People subscribe to distribution of
lists that they are interested in. Get it? I dont hold my breath.
>
> It's bullshit that anyone should feel coerced into summarising their
> entire daily contribution to a newsgroup into a single digest, just to
No : not their entire contribution. Just the hundreds of links.
> appease scum like you and "Hardon". If you don't like it, then fuck
> off;
No. You "fuck off" if you want.
> it's not like either of you contribute anything anyway, so trust me -
> you won't be missed.
By whom? Your gang? There's not many left really is there? I'll bet a
penny to a pound that yttrx has posted more good stuff about Linux than
you've had wanks - so thats quite a lot. I'll also hazard a guess that I
have too. All you do is sing from the choir song sheet : and make
yourself look like an ignorant little twat while you're about it.
>
> --
> K.
> http://slated.org - Slated, Rated & Blogged
> This message has not been photoshopped in any way.
>
> Fedora Core release 5 (Bordeaux) on sky, running kernel 2.6.16-1.2133_FC5
> 19:07:56 up 76 days, 19:24, 5 users, load average: 0.09, 0.55, 0.69
--
Tim Smith
> > Rubbish. A single digest is much easier to read. Or "digest". You can
> > also tag it for further perusal - much easier than tagging 300 articles.
>
> So you think wading through 1432 lines of a digest post is quicker than
> glancing at 60 subject lines?
>
> You're an idiot.
If the digest is formatted correctly, then yes, the digest will be
faster. It will have those 60 subject lines as 60 consecutive lines in
the "Contents:" section, which you really can see in a glance. With
separate articles, those 60 subject lines are mixed in with hundreds of
subject lines from other articles.
--
--Tim Smith
[censored]
Stringing stuff together is not usually the best method, but in some
cases explanation is helpful. If you cannot justify copying the entire
body in your reply, leave the post reference instead. Archival services
will retain it anyway (Google being one), although it's obvious a
majority of the link will die over time. I could do this too, if I
search for it through Google Groups' search engine.
I cannot understand the strange attitude that pervades Usenet to argue
method rather than adapt the current of changing styles and needs into
the network operations and vice versa. It is not an unchanging monolith
but a high evolving social protocol, and to ignore the new users is
basically a suicidal pose. All it does is give the detractor more
ammunition.
Compare your needs as a user to those in the 8-bit dumb terminal world
of 1979, when they were just beginning to develop character sets for
smilies, of all things. Also that most of the basic hardware concepts
and some software ideas we use now were conceived before 1970 (many by
ONE GUY at SRI IIRC).
This is somewhat like what I think Apple originally imparted in 1977,
but sadly it got lost quickly. The idea isn't about what is better, it
is about how to exist in harmony and benefit all. It has indeed become
a pissing contest, useless in itself, and more like "my car will beat
yours on Mulholland--midnight, bring your pinks".
Usenet is of little use when this occurs.
Roy Culley
<8nsns3-...@ellandroad.demon.co.uk>,
Mark Kent <mark...@demon.co.uk> writes:
>
> For those who don't comprehend what a digest is or does, it can only
> be made /after/ the postings have appeared, not before... anyway,
> here we go - again, all feedback welcome.
I don't like digests. Never have and never will. Still, with my
newsreader, it is simple to kill them and any followups to them.
I feel that in this case it is giving in to the wintrolls a bit even
though Roy, thankfully, will continue to post his News articles
anyway.
Just my thoughts Mark.
--
"Religion is regarded by the common people as true, by the wise as
false, and by rulers as useful." -- Seneca the Younger (4? BC - 65 AD)
Mark Kent
Roy Culley <r...@nodomain.none> espoused:
> begin risky.vbs
> <8nsns3-...@ellandroad.demon.co.uk>,
> Mark Kent <mark...@demon.co.uk> writes:
>>
>> For those who don't comprehend what a digest is or does, it can only
>> be made /after/ the postings have appeared, not before... anyway,
>> here we go - again, all feedback welcome.
>
> I don't like digests. Never have and never will. Still, with my
> newsreader, it is simple to kill them and any followups to them.
I'll be honest, I'm not a huge fan of them myself, but it does provide a
handy summary, I suppose.
>
> I feel that in this case it is giving in to the wintrolls a bit even
> though Roy, thankfully, will continue to post his News articles
> anyway.
>
> Just my thoughts Mark.
>
Fair enough - thanks for taking the time.
--
| Mark Kent -- mark at ellandroad dot demon dot co dot uk |
People who have what they want are very fond of telling people who haven't
what they want that they don't want it.
-- Ogden Nash
Roy Schestowitz
> begin oe_protect.scr
> Roy Culley <r...@nodomain.none> espoused:
>> begin risky.vbs
>> <8nsns3-...@ellandroad.demon.co.uk>,
>> Mark Kent <mark...@demon.co.uk> writes:
>>>
>>> For those who don't comprehend what a digest is or does, it can only
>>> be made /after/ the postings have appeared, not before... anyway,
>>> here we go - again, all feedback welcome.
>>
>> I don't like digests. Never have and never will. Still, with my
>> newsreader, it is simple to kill them and any followups to them.
>
> I'll be honest, I'm not a huge fan of them myself, but it does provide a
> handy summary, I suppose.
>
>>
>> I feel that in this case it is giving in to the wintrolls a bit even
>> though Roy, thankfully, will continue to post his News articles
>> anyway.
>>
>> Just my thoughts Mark.
>
> Fair enough - thanks for taking the time.
HQ said he likes it. He plays reverse psychology. If they hate, it's good.
Thus, if they argue they like it, it would be perceived as bad. They try to
give you the illusion that you give them a service, a pleasure.
At the same time, they try to eliminate what upsets them more: a multitude of
threads with distinct subject lines (page titles). These change the
'flavour' of COLA's archives, which are accessed by curious Web
(re)searchers. And as long as Google serves as the gateway to information,
Microsoft is shivering in its boots.
Just my opinion...
Best wishes,
Roy
--
Tux is sexy <
http://bbspot.com/Images/News_Features/2006/08/paris_hilton_tux.jpg >
http://Schestowitz.com | GNU is Not UNIX | PGP-Key: 0x74572E8E
roy pts/3 cg001a.halls.man Tue Sep 5 08:29 still logged in
http://iuron.com - proposing a non-profit search engine
Mark Kent
Roy Schestowitz <newsg...@schestowitz.com> espoused:
> __/ [ Mark Kent ] on Tuesday 05 September 2006 09:03 \__
>
>> begin oe_protect.scr
>> Roy Culley <r...@nodomain.none> espoused:
>>> begin risky.vbs
>>> <8nsns3-...@ellandroad.demon.co.uk>,
>>> Mark Kent <mark...@demon.co.uk> writes:
>>>>
>>>> For those who don't comprehend what a digest is or does, it can only
>>>> be made /after/ the postings have appeared, not before... anyway,
>>>> here we go - again, all feedback welcome.
>>>
>>> I don't like digests. Never have and never will. Still, with my
>>> newsreader, it is simple to kill them and any followups to them.
>>
>> I'll be honest, I'm not a huge fan of them myself, but it does provide a
>> handy summary, I suppose.
>>
>>>
>>> I feel that in this case it is giving in to the wintrolls a bit even
>>> though Roy, thankfully, will continue to post his News articles
>>> anyway.
>>>
>>> Just my thoughts Mark.
>>
>> Fair enough - thanks for taking the time.
>
> HQ said he likes it. He plays reverse psychology. If they hate, it's good.
> Thus, if they argue they like it, it would be perceived as bad. They try to
> give you the illusion that you give them a service, a pleasure.
If he likes it, that's fine by me. If he doesn't, it's also fine. I
don't think he'd really considered the implications when he first asked
for it...
>
> At the same time, they try to eliminate what upsets them more: a multitude of
> threads with distinct subject lines (page titles). These change the
> 'flavour' of COLA's archives, which are accessed by curious Web
> (re)searchers. And as long as Google serves as the gateway to information,
> Microsoft is shivering in its boots.
Oh no, that's not going away, we need that very much.
>
> Just my opinion...
>
At least it's on topic :-)
Roy Schestowitz
Oops. I forgot to add something indicative of sarcasm. It was perhaps
long-winded or vague, so the sarcasm was badly placed.
>> At the same time, they try to eliminate what upsets them more: a multitude
>> of threads with distinct subject lines (page titles). These change the
>> 'flavour' of COLA's archives, which are accessed by curious Web
>> (re)searchers. And as long as Google serves as the gateway to information,
>> Microsoft is shivering in its boots.
>
> Oh no, that's not going away, we need that very much.
I only wish they stopped selling 'linux' SERP's to Microsoft. Too many people
are channelled to the anti-Linux crusade because Microsoft pays Google.
>> Just my opinion...
>>
>
> At least it's on topic :-)
Best wishes,
Roy
--
Can Mac OS X and Vista catch up? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wYjv0S_k0xo
http://Schestowitz.com | GNU is Not UNIX | PGP-Key: 0x74572E8E
roy pts/3 Tue Sep 5 13:22 - 13:39 (00:17)
mark...@digiverse.net
Mark Kent wrote:
> Having taken into account the feedback received, I've produced a 1-day
> digest (24 hours), which is obviously quite a bit shorter! I've
> followed Roy S's header format somewhat, again as suggested, so that if
> people don't want a digest, then they can kill it easily.
>
> For those who don't comprehend what a digest is or does, it can only be
> made /after/ the postings have appeared, not before... anyway, here we
> go - again, all feedback welcome.
>
I like the layout, it's so nice and clear and easy to scan, just like
Linux....
(Bwahahahahah!!!)
Anyway, it should keep you busy until you get yourself a woman.
mark...@digiverse.net
Coherent again. Nice post.
mark...@digiverse.net
flatfish+++ wrote:
> On Tue, 05 Sep 2006 17:42:09 +0100, Roy Schestowitz wrote:
>
>
> > I only wish they stopped selling 'linux' SERP's to Microsoft. Too many people
> > are channelled to the anti-Linux crusade because Microsoft pays Google.
> >
> >
>
> >
>
> Paranoid.......
>
> People are channeled against Linux because they try Linux and it doesn't
> work for them.
Sums it up. I'd add ".. and it's too complicated."
>
> It's a very simple concept:
I don't think they understand "simple".
>
> "If you think you hate Linux now, what till you try it"!
My advice to anyone who wants to try Linux would be to try a "live CD"
and if there is any kind of problem not to even waste time trying to
sort it.
Kier
> On Tue, 05 Sep 2006 11:06:26 -0700, markzoom wrote:
>
>
>> My advice to anyone who wants to try Linux would be to try a "live CD"
>> and if there is any kind of problem not to even waste time trying to
>> sort it.
>
> That's good advice.
Why is recommending that new users *don't* try to learn anything and
improve their skills supposed to be a good thing?
> Although I am pulling the COLA gangs chains at the moment, I have found
> that the reason people do not stick with Linux is because they have and
> have paid for better applications under Windows and they don't like giving
> them up.
Which of course they don't have to if they dual-boot.
--
Kier
flatfish+++
> On Tue, 05 Sep 2006 14:15:01 -0500, flatfish+++ wrote:
>
>> On Tue, 05 Sep 2006 11:06:26 -0700, markzoom wrote:
>>
>>
>>> My advice to anyone who wants to try Linux would be to try a "live CD"
>>> and if there is any kind of problem not to even waste time trying to
>>> sort it.
>>
>> That's good advice.
>
> Why is recommending that new users *don't* try to learn anything and
> improve their skills supposed to be a good thing?
Because it is actually SAVING them time.
What is better....
1. Noob tries LiveCD and it doesn;t recognize his hardware so he moves on
and maybe tries another one of the 350+ Linux distributions, many of which
have LiveCDs until he finds one that recognizes his hardware.
or...
2. Noob just installs Linux, screws up his drives, spends LOTS of time
trying to make it work and then discovers it never will so he gives up
because he isn't about to go through this again.
IOW a LiveCD is a GREAT way of testing a system, and a user, to see if
that is the version of Linux for him..
Get it?
I doubt it..........
> Which of course they don't have to if they dual-boot.
They are not interested in dual booting over the long haul because it
doubles the amount of work they have to do.
At the start yes, because smart people move into Linux gradually. But
there reaches a point where they get tired of the dual boot, except maybe
for gaming, and want to go one way or the other.
My experience shows they go right back to Windows because Linux doesn't do
anything better, in their perception, than Windows and in fact is more of
a PITA.
Kier
> On Tue, 05 Sep 2006 19:57:44 +0100, Kier wrote:
>
>> On Tue, 05 Sep 2006 14:15:01 -0500, flatfish+++ wrote:
>>
>>> On Tue, 05 Sep 2006 11:06:26 -0700, markzoom wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>> My advice to anyone who wants to try Linux would be to try a "live CD"
>>>> and if there is any kind of problem not to even waste time trying to
>>>> sort it.
>>>
>>> That's good advice.
>>
>> Why is recommending that new users *don't* try to learn anything and
>> improve their skills supposed to be a good thing?
>
>
> Because it is actually SAVING them time.
>
> What is better....
>
> 1. Noob tries LiveCD and it doesn;t recognize his hardware so he moves on
> and maybe tries another one of the 350+ Linux distributions, many of which
> have LiveCDs until he finds one that recognizes his hardware.
Maybe. Or maybe he finds his hardware recognised at once.
>
> or...
>
> 2. Noob just installs Linux, screws up his drives, spends LOTS of time
> trying to make it work and then discovers it never will so he gives up
> because he isn't about to go through this again.
Or, noob installs Linux, finds it works great, and never looks at Windows
again.
>
>
> IOW a LiveCD is a GREAT way of testing a system, and a user, to see if
> that is the version of Linux for him..
Yes, of course. I necver said otherwise. My remark above was directed at
the second part of the sentence: ".... and if there is any kind of problem
not to even waste time trying to sort it."
I don't consider the time I've spent learning Linux, or sometimes sortng
out problems, in general successfully, to be time wasted.
>
> Get it?
>
> I doubt it..........
I doubt you understand anything.
>
>
>
>> Which of course they don't have to if they dual-boot.
>
> They are not interested in dual booting over the long haul because it
> doubles the amount of work they have to do.
Why? Not only can they keep their must-have apps till they find they don't
need them as much as they thoght, but they can access their Windows
partions from Linux, and get at their data.
>
> At the start yes, because smart people move into Linux gradually. But
> there reaches a point where they get tired of the dual boot, except maybe
> for gaming, and want to go one way or the other.
>
> My experience shows they go right back to Windows because Linux doesn't do
> anything better, in their perception, than Windows and in fact is more of
> a PITA.
Your experience isn't the whole world. Just as many people are likely to
switch solely to Linux because they discover after all that it provides
all they need. If they were insterested enough in Linux to bother
installing it, why should it be automatic that they chose Windows?
If Linux is such a PITA, why are you using it? Just to find something to
whine about? Ever considered getting a proper hobby?
--
Kier
Kier
> On Tue, 05 Sep 2006 20:35:17 +0100, Kier wrote:
>
>
>> Maybe. Or maybe he finds his hardware recognised at once.
>
> Then he simply clicks on the "Install to hdisk" icon and it is done.
>
> In your crazy zealot skin you have totally missed the point.
i don't have any 'crazy zealot skin', flatfish.
>
> IOW livecds are a time saving device.
Did I say they weren't? No.
>
>
>
>> Or, noob installs Linux, finds it works great, and never looks at Windows
>> again.
>
> Yea right!!
Glad you agree.
> Get real and take a look at real average people and then come back and
> report how many as a percentage actually do this.
Got any figures to suggest it never happens? You were using exaggerated
examples, so why are you complaining about mine? First you'd better define
'average', too.
>
>
>
>> Yes, of course. I necver said otherwise. My remark above was directed at
>> the second part of the sentence: ".... and if there is any kind of problem
>> not to even waste time trying to sort it."
>
> In the context of installing to hdisk that is good advice.
>
>> I don't consider the time I've spent learning Linux, or sometimes sortng
>> out problems, in general successfully, to be time wasted.
>
> Knowledge is never wasted time, however, you Linux kooks worship an
> operating system.
I'm not a 'Linux kook', flatfish. You are the kook. And I don't worship
anything, let alone Linux.
> most people want to LEARN their APPLICATIONS...
> You know like AutoCad or Photoshop etc......
Yes, and? They're not born magically know Windows, are they? Or are you
saying no one has to learn anything about Windows in order to use it
efficiently?
>
>
>
>>
>> I doubt you understand anything.
>
> I know a Linux kook when I see one.
Clearly you don't, since I am not a 'kook', Linux or otherwise.
>
>
>
>>
>> Why? Not only can they keep their must-have apps till they find they don't
>> need them as much as they thoght, but they can access their Windows
>> partions from Linux, and get at their data.
>
> Problem is they never reach the point of discovering this.
Who are 'they'? Not everyone is the same.
> If they did, Linux would have more than .20 percent of the desktop market.
It is. Stop lying.
>
> After all Linux is free...
> Right?
Yes.
>
>
>> Your experience isn't the whole world. Just as many people are likely to
>> switch solely to Linux because they discover after all that it provides
>> all they need. If they were insterested enough in Linux to bother
>> installing it, why should it be automatic that they chose Windows?
>
>
> Because Windows works.
So does Linux.
> Windows supports their hardware fully.
So can Linux. I just bought a brand new Dell. Guess what - it all works.
> Windows has shrinkwrap that blows away most Linux applications.
So you say. Then how come there are any Linux users? How come you are
using Linux? How come I never bought a single shrinkwrap app for Windows
all the time I used it?
> Windows is a standard of sorts.
Not really. Only because it's become a monopoly.
>
> etc.....
None of the above precludes users from choosing Linux over Windows.
>
>
>> If Linux is such a PITA, why are you using it? Just to find something to
>> whine about? Ever considered getting a proper hobby?
>
>
> My hobby is disproving the claims made by the COLA gang and equally
> ignorant Linux zealots.
Your hobby is lying and insulting Linux users, you mean. Again: if Linux
is such a PITA, why are you using it and stinking up this newsgroup?
--
Kier
mark...@digiverse.net
Kier wrote:
> On Tue, 05 Sep 2006 15:08:12 -0400, flatfish+++ wrote:
>
> > On Tue, 05 Sep 2006 19:57:44 +0100, Kier wrote:
> >
> >> On Tue, 05 Sep 2006 14:15:01 -0500, flatfish+++ wrote:
> >>
> >>> On Tue, 05 Sep 2006 11:06:26 -0700, markzoom wrote:
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>> My advice to anyone who wants to try Linux would be to try a "live CD"
> >>>> and if there is any kind of problem not to even waste time trying to
> >>>> sort it.
> >>>
> >>> That's good advice.
> >>
> >> Why is recommending that new users *don't* try to learn anything and
> >> improve their skills supposed to be a good thing?
Because for most learning Linux IS a waste of time.
> >
> >
> > Because it is actually SAVING them time.
> >
> > What is better....
Saving time.
> >
> > 1. Noob tries LiveCD and it doesn;t recognize his hardware so he moves on
> > and maybe tries another one of the 350+ Linux distributions, many of which
> > have LiveCDs until he finds one that recognizes his hardware.
>
> Maybe. Or maybe he finds his hardware recognised at once.
That still doesn't mean the software is any good.
>
> >
> > or...
> >
> > 2. Noob just installs Linux, screws up his drives, spends LOTS of time
> > trying to make it work and then discovers it never will so he gives up
> > because he isn't about to go through this again.
>
> Or, noob installs Linux, finds it works great, and never looks at Windows
> again.
Happens occasionally but obviously rarely.
>
> >
> >
> > IOW a LiveCD is a GREAT way of testing a system, and a user, to see if
> > that is the version of Linux for him..
>
> Yes, of course. I necver said otherwise. My remark above was directed at
> the second part of the sentence: ".... and if there is any kind of problem
> not to even waste time trying to sort it."
Because for average users it's a step backwards and a huge waste of
precious leisure time to learn a niche computer command language.
>
> I don't consider the time I've spent learning Linux, or sometimes sortng
> out problems, in general successfully, to be time wasted.
Not everybody wants to become a stuffy geek like you. There are a 1001
more useful things they could do (and you should have done).
>
> >
> > Get it?
> >
> > I doubt it..........
>
> I doubt you understand anything.
>
> > Which of course they don't have to if they dual-boot.
> >
> > They are not interested in dual booting over the long haul because it
> > doubles the amount of work they have to do.
>
> Why? Not only can they keep their must-have apps till they find they don't
> need them as much as they thoght, but they can access their Windows
> partions from Linux, and get at their data.
Not so easy to put data back into windows though, which they most
likely have to use for work.
>
> >
> > At the start yes, because smart people move into Linux gradually. But
> > there reaches a point where they get tired of the dual boot, except maybe
> > for gaming, and want to go one way or the other.
> >
> > My experience shows they go right back to Windows because Linux doesn't do
> > anything better, in their perception, than Windows and in fact is more of
> > a PITA.
>
> Your experience isn't the whole world. Just as many people are likely to
> switch solely to Linux because they discover after all that it provides
> all they need.
Back your assertion with statistics: How many noobs revert to windows
after they tried a Linux distro, hmmm? I'd like to see those figures.
I've reverted 4 times now.
> If they were insterested enough in Linux to bother
> installing it, why should it be automatic that they chose Windows?
Show the statistics of what *actually* happens.
>
> If Linux is such a PITA, why are you using it? Just to find something to
> whine about? Ever considered getting a proper hobby?
Dunno about Flatfish+++, but I'm not using it, it crashed.
>
> --
> Kier
Mark Kent
mark...@digiverse.net <mark...@digiverse.net> espoused:
>
> Mark Kent wrote:
>> Having taken into account the feedback received, I've produced a 1-day
>> digest (24 hours), which is obviously quite a bit shorter! I've
>> followed Roy S's header format somewhat, again as suggested, so that if
>> people don't want a digest, then they can kill it easily.
>>
>> For those who don't comprehend what a digest is or does, it can only be
>> made /after/ the postings have appeared, not before... anyway, here we
>> go - again, all feedback welcome.
>>
> [snip]
>
>
> I like the layout, it's so nice and clear and easy to scan, just like
> Linux....
Good.
> (Bwahahahahah!!!)
wo ho? wei hei? (not sure I've got the grammar right...)
>
> Anyway, it should keep you busy until you get yourself a woman.
>
What, another one? Today? Gods, are you trying to kill me? I'm still
sore from the last three. Oh no, it's almost time for tomorrow, here we
go again... still, I don't think the Mrs knows about them all, yet.
Mark Kent
>> On Tue, 05 Sep 2006 17:42:09 +0100, Roy Schestowitz wrote:
>>
>>
>> > I only wish they stopped selling 'linux' SERP's to Microsoft. Too many people
>> > are channelled to the anti-Linux crusade because Microsoft pays Google.
>> >
>> >
>>
>> >
>> > Roy
>>
>> Paranoid.......
>>
>> People are channeled against Linux because they try Linux and it doesn't
>> work for them.
>
> Sums it up. I'd add ".. and it's too complicated."
>
Well, on my TomTom, I just switch it on, and it works.
On my Nokia N770, I just switch it on, and it works.
On my Son's GP2X, he just switches it on, and it works.
On our desktops, my children, myself, au-pair and wife just use them.
When I find the complicated bit, I'll let everyone know.
Rick
>
> Kier wrote:
>> On Tue, 05 Sep 2006 15:08:12 -0400, flatfish+++ wrote:
>>
>> > On Tue, 05 Sep 2006 19:57:44 +0100, Kier wrote:
>> >
>> >> On Tue, 05 Sep 2006 14:15:01 -0500, flatfish+++ wrote:
>> >>
>> >>> On Tue, 05 Sep 2006 11:06:26 -0700, markzoom wrote:
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>>> My advice to anyone who wants to try Linux would be to try a "live
>> >>>> CD" and if there is any kind of problem not to even waste time
>> >>>> trying to sort it.
>> >>>
>> >>> That's good advice.
>> >>
>> >> Why is recommending that new users *don't* try to learn anything and
>> >> improve their skills supposed to be a good thing?
>
> Because for most learning Linux IS a waste of time.
Then learning windows is a waste of time.
(snip)
mark...@digiverse.net
Well since command language is unnecessary, there isn't much time
involved.
mark...@digiverse.net
Mark Kent wrote:
> begin oe_protect.scr
> mark...@digiverse.net <mark...@digiverse.net> espoused:
> >
> > flatfish+++ wrote:
> >> On Tue, 05 Sep 2006 17:42:09 +0100, Roy Schestowitz wrote:
> >>
> >>
> >> > I only wish they stopped selling 'linux' SERP's to Microsoft. Too many people
> >> > are channelled to the anti-Linux crusade because Microsoft pays Google.
> >> >
> >> >
> >>
> >> >
> >> > Roy
> >>
> >> Paranoid.......
> >>
> >> People are channeled against Linux because they try Linux and it doesn't
> >> work for them.
> >
> > Sums it up. I'd add ".. and it's too complicated."
> >
>
> Well, on my TomTom, I just switch it on, and it works.
>
> On my Nokia N770, I just switch it on, and it works.
>
> On my Son's GP2X, he just switches it on, and it works.
>
> On our desktops, my children, myself, au-pair and wife just use them.
>
> When I find the complicated bit, I'll let everyone know.
I'm sure they just let you do all the complicated bits, and they'd be
using windows if you didn't.
Linonut
>> Then learning windows is a waste of time.
>
> Well since command language is unnecessary, there isn't much time
> involved.
Sure there is. Apparently you've never had a complete Windows newbie
come to you for help. (No doubt your personality puts them off.)
--
Reboot Microsoft.
Linonut
>> Well, on my TomTom, I just switch it on, and it works.
>> On my Nokia N770, I just switch it on, and it works.
>> On my Son's GP2X, he just switches it on, and it works.
>> On our desktops, my children, myself, au-pair and wife just use them.
>>
>> When I find the complicated bit, I'll let everyone know.
>
> I'm sure they just let you do all the complicated bits, and they'd be
> using windows if you didn't.
Why would they be using Windows? They'd have to take the time to learn
it, and they've already learned their way around their Linux systems.
--
"Spock, you're nothing but a damn computer!"
"Why, thank you, Doctor!"
Rick
Command language is largely unnecessary with Linux, too.
Mark Kent
Linonut <lin...@bone.com> espoused:
> After takin' a swig o' grog, mark...@digiverse.net belched out this bit o' wisdom:
>
>>> Well, on my TomTom, I just switch it on, and it works.
>>> On my Nokia N770, I just switch it on, and it works.
>>> On my Son's GP2X, he just switches it on, and it works.
>>> On our desktops, my children, myself, au-pair and wife just use them.
>>>
>>> When I find the complicated bit, I'll let everyone know.
>>
>> I'm sure they just let you do all the complicated bits, and they'd be
>> using windows if you didn't.
>
> Why would they be using Windows? They'd have to take the time to learn
> it, and they've already learned their way around their Linux systems.
>
I was with the new ICT support guy at school whilst he was training the
ICT technician in the new server setup. It took him over two hours just
to explain how the new printer setup works, where the new storage is,
where the apps can be found and what will have to be done, by hand, one
at a time, to each PC in the ICT suite in order to make them functional.
This guy is /very/ good, a huge leap forward from the previous support
company. Afterwards, I spent about 1/2 hour with him showing him the
IMAP mail server I'd install a few months back, showed him how to edit
the scripts to put the machine into the new IP address range, and showed
him how it had two addresses on the one interface, and how the routeing
tables were built. We changed the passwords and bits on the script
which uses samba to backup files to the windows server, and he suggested
he create a new partition to store the mail file backups.
Went to the windows server, created a partition, tried to format it, and
he got an "internal error". Oops. Tried to delete the new partition,
and the GUI went completely to sleep for about 6-7 mins (we did some
more work on the linux machine) before re-emerging to inform us that new
hardware had been detected and did we want to reboot now?!
This is a new install, the windows machine's only been up for 2 weeks,
and already, it has major problems... now, they could be hardware
problems, or anything else, but because it's windows, there's
essentially no way of finding out what the root cause is.
Anyway, we decided to back up the mail server on an existing partition,
in its own directory - in this case, in an administrator area, so that
normal users would not accidentally delete the backups.
We noted that I'd installed the mail server in December 2005, and
there'd been zero problems or maintenance since, excepting changing the
samba password and the work we just did to move it into a new subnet.
He was so impressed with the simplicity and reliability of the Linux
box, and so keen to learn about this stuff, that he's going to build a
linux server at home, with soft-raid and lvm (I explained about this and
he was stunned), with no gui, because he's totally sick of driving
between sites to do things which he'd rather do remotely.
I'll be installing Dan's Guardian as a web filter next week with the
support guy.
I will keep eveyone informed of the progress, although I noted one of
Roy's news items yesterday showed that Oxford County Council have gone
Linux for schools.
--
| Mark Kent -- mark at ellandroad dot demon dot co dot uk |
Law of the Jungle:
He who hesitates is lunch.
mark...@digiverse.net
??? If it has to be used at all it's NECESSARY, Dipstick.
Look, you've made it abundantly clear you don't want Linux to compete
with windows, so quit pretending it can or does.
>
> --
> Rick
> <http://ricks-place.tripod.com/sound/2cents.wav>
Peter Köhlmann
>
> Rick wrote:
>> On Tue, 05 Sep 2006 17:08:17 -0700, markzoom wrote:
>>
>> >
>> > Rick wrote:
>> >> On Tue, 05 Sep 2006 13:39:59 -0700, markzoom wrote:
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> > Kier wrote:
>> >> >> On Tue, 05 Sep 2006 15:08:12 -0400, flatfish+++ wrote:
>> >> >>
>> >> >> > On Tue, 05 Sep 2006 19:57:44 +0100, Kier wrote:
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> >> On Tue, 05 Sep 2006 14:15:01 -0500, flatfish+++ wrote:
>> >> >> >>
>> >> >> >>> On Tue, 05 Sep 2006 11:06:26 -0700, markzoom wrote:
>> >> >> >>>
>> >> >> >>>
>> >> >> >>>> My advice to anyone who wants to try Linux would be to try a
>> >> >> >>>> "live CD" and if there is any kind of problem not to even
>> >> >> >>>> waste time trying to sort it.
>> >> >> >>>
>> >> >> >>> That's good advice.
>> >> >> >>
>> >> >> >> Why is recommending that new users *don't* try to learn anything
>> >> >> >> and improve their skills supposed to be a good thing?
>> >> >
>> >> > Because for most learning Linux IS a waste of time.
>> >>
>> >> Then learning windows is a waste of time.
>> >
>> > Well since command language is unnecessary, there isn't much time
>> > involved.
>>
>> Command language is largely unnecessary with Linux, too.
>
> ??? If it has to be used at all it's NECESSARY, Dipstick.
>
Only problem with your "theory" is that you do not have to use the CLI *at*
*all* if you install, say, SuSE
You /can/ use it, but you don't have to
> Look, you've made it abundantly clear you don't want Linux to compete
> with windows, so quit pretending it can or does.
>
You've made it abundantly clear that you are clueless
>>
>> --
>> Rick
>> <http://ricks-place.tripod.com/sound/2cents.wav>
So your little sister still refuses to help you configuring your newsreader
correctly?
--
You're not my type. For that matter, you're not even my species
Hadron Quark
> Rick wrote:
>> On Tue, 05 Sep 2006 17:08:17 -0700, markzoom wrote:
>>
>> >
>> > Rick wrote:
>> >> On Tue, 05 Sep 2006 13:39:59 -0700, markzoom wrote:
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> > Kier wrote:
>> >> >> On Tue, 05 Sep 2006 15:08:12 -0400, flatfish+++ wrote:
>> >> >>
>> >> >> > On Tue, 05 Sep 2006 19:57:44 +0100, Kier wrote:
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> >> On Tue, 05 Sep 2006 14:15:01 -0500, flatfish+++ wrote:
>> >> >> >>
>> >> >> >>> On Tue, 05 Sep 2006 11:06:26 -0700, markzoom wrote:
>> >> >> >>>
>> >> >> >>>
>> >> >> >>>> My advice to anyone who wants to try Linux would be to try a
>> >> >> >>>> "live CD" and if there is any kind of problem not to even waste
>> >> >> >>>> time trying to sort it.
>> >> >> >>>
>> >> >> >>> That's good advice.
>> >> >> >>
>> >> >> >> Why is recommending that new users *don't* try to learn anything
>> >> >> >> and improve their skills supposed to be a good thing?
>> >> >
>> >> > Because for most learning Linux IS a waste of time.
>> >>
>> >> Then learning windows is a waste of time.
>> >
>> > Well since command language is unnecessary, there isn't much time
>> > involved.
>>
>> Command language is largely unnecessary with Linux, too.
>
Is he still talking shit? Unbelievable. Almost all driver downloads need
a command line compile & install. Absolutely mad as a hatter. Appears to
know zero about the OS he thinks he is advocating.
Rick
>
> Rick wrote:
>> On Tue, 05 Sep 2006 17:08:17 -0700, markzoom wrote:
>>
>>
>> > Rick wrote:
>> >> On Tue, 05 Sep 2006 13:39:59 -0700, markzoom wrote:
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> > Kier wrote:
>> >> >> On Tue, 05 Sep 2006 15:08:12 -0400, flatfish+++ wrote:
>> >> >>
>> >> >> > On Tue, 05 Sep 2006 19:57:44 +0100, Kier wrote:
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> >> On Tue, 05 Sep 2006 14:15:01 -0500, flatfish+++ wrote:
>> >> >> >>
>> >> >> >>> On Tue, 05 Sep 2006 11:06:26 -0700, markzoom wrote:
>> >> >> >>>
>> >> >> >>>
>> >> >> >>>> My advice to anyone who wants to try Linux would be to try a
>> >> >> >>>> "live CD" and if there is any kind of problem not to even
>> >> >> >>>> waste time trying to sort it.
>> >> >> >>>
>> >> >> >>> That's good advice.
>> >> >> >>
>> >> >> >> Why is recommending that new users *don't* try to learn
>> >> >> >> anything and improve their skills supposed to be a good thing?
>> >> >
>> >> > Because for most learning Linux IS a waste of time.
>> >>
>> >> Then learning windows is a waste of time.
>> >
>> > Well since command language is unnecessary, there isn't much time
>> > involved.
>>
>> Command language is largely unnecessary with Linux, too.
>
> ??? If it has to be used at all it's NECESSARY, Dipstick.
Then it is NECESSARY with windows, dipstick.
>
> Look, you've made it abundantly clear you don't want Linux to compete with
> windows, so quit pretending it can or does.
Look, you have made it abundantly clear you are a stupid, lying bigot, so
stop trying to convince yourself otherwise.
Rick
You don't need to describe yourself to us, we already know all that about
you.
>
>> ??? If it has to be used at all it's NECESSARY, Dipstick.
>>
>> Look, you've made it abundantly clear you don't want Linux to compete
>> with windows, so quit pretending it can or does.
Mark Kent
>> On Tue, 05 Sep 2006 17:08:17 -0700, markzoom wrote:
>>
>> >
>> > Rick wrote:
>> >> On Tue, 05 Sep 2006 13:39:59 -0700, markzoom wrote:
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> > Kier wrote:
>> >> >> On Tue, 05 Sep 2006 15:08:12 -0400, flatfish+++ wrote:
>> >> >>
>> >> >> > On Tue, 05 Sep 2006 19:57:44 +0100, Kier wrote:
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> >> On Tue, 05 Sep 2006 14:15:01 -0500, flatfish+++ wrote:
>> >> >> >>
>> >> >> >>> On Tue, 05 Sep 2006 11:06:26 -0700, markzoom wrote:
>> >> >> >>>
>> >> >> >>>
>> >> >> >>>> My advice to anyone who wants to try Linux would be to try a
>> >> >> >>>> "live CD" and if there is any kind of problem not to even waste
>> >> >> >>>> time trying to sort it.
>> >> >> >>>
>> >> >> >>> That's good advice.
>> >> >> >>
>> >> >> >> Why is recommending that new users *don't* try to learn anything
>> >> >> >> and improve their skills supposed to be a good thing?
>> >> >
>> >> > Because for most learning Linux IS a waste of time.
>> >>
>> >> Then learning windows is a waste of time.
>> >
>> > Well since command language is unnecessary, there isn't much time
>> > involved.
>>
>> Command language is largely unnecessary with Linux, too.
>
> ??? If it has to be used at all it's NECESSARY, Dipstick.
>
Well, perhaps you can explain to everyone how it's needed for an ubuntu
LiveCD, or how it's needed to use a Nokia N770 or a Gamepark GP2X, or a
Motorola A780, or a TomTom GO700.
There is /no/ cli on those devices, and the ubuntu CD just runs.
Linonut
> mark...@digiverse.net wrote:
>>> On Tue, 05 Sep 2006 17:08:17 -0700, markzoom wrote:
>>> >> On Tue, 05 Sep 2006 13:39:59 -0700, markzoom wrote:
>>> >> >> >>> On Tue, 05 Sep 2006 11:06:26 -0700, markzoom wrote:
>>> >> >
>>> >> > Because for most learning Linux IS a waste of time.
>>> >
>>> > Well since command language is unnecessary, there isn't much time
>>> > involved.
>>
>> ??? If it has to be used at all it's NECESSARY, Dipstick.
>>
>> Look, you've made it abundantly clear you don't want Linux to compete
>> with windows, so quit pretending it can or does.
>
> You've made it abundantly clear that you are clueless
To a lot of these Win-dazed idiots that visit COLA, if it isn't an exact
clone of Windows, it is shit.
Said attitude speaks volumes, but does so about the poster, not about
Windows or Linux.
Mark Zoom may or may not be an idiot, but he plays one on COLA.
If he had done any type of admin on a Windows server, he would know
that, not only are many operations made easier by CLI-based application,
but there are some for which the only option is the command-line.
--
Real programmers don't use Visual Basic.
Peter Köhlmann
I'd bet that that dimwit has never tried to hunt down a network error on XP
Pure hell, as you don't get the slightest indication what went wrong if
something does not work when running in GUI mode
Dropping down to the windows CLI and issuing a few commands (markzoom is
unable to, as he can only click on anything which moves, has bright colors
and promises naked tennis-stars) will usually get /some/ answers, as you
may be able to get some error codes as a starting point
--
It is very difficult to prophesy, especially when it pertains to the
future.
mark...@digiverse.net
Linonut wrote:
> After takin' a swig o' grog, Peter Köhlmann belched out this bit o' wisdom:
>
> > mark...@digiverse.net wrote:
> >>> On Tue, 05 Sep 2006 17:08:17 -0700, markzoom wrote:
> >>> >> On Tue, 05 Sep 2006 13:39:59 -0700, markzoom wrote:
> >>> >> >> >>> On Tue, 05 Sep 2006 11:06:26 -0700, markzoom wrote:
> >>> >> >
> >>> >> > Because for most learning Linux IS a waste of time.
> >>> >
> >>> > Well since command language is unnecessary, there isn't much time
> >>> > involved.
> >>
> >> ??? If it has to be used at all it's NECESSARY, Dipstick.
> >>
> >> Look, you've made it abundantly clear you don't want Linux to compete
> >> with windows, so quit pretending it can or does.
> >
> > You've made it abundantly clear that you are clueless
>
> To a lot of these Win-dazed idiots that visit COLA, if it isn't an exact
> clone of Windows, it is shit.
As you are too dumb to see, a windows lookalike without the security
issues is
what people want, because over 95% use it aready. The fact they're not
flocking to a widely available free product should be hint to it's
crapness being a factor (they have no problem flocking to Firefox).
>
> Said attitude speaks volumes, but does so about the poster, not about
> Windows or Linux.
The oblivious narrowminded admin attitude is what Linux is famous for.
>
> Mark Zoom may or may not be an idiot, but he plays one on COLA.
>
> If he had done any type of admin on a Windows server, he would know
> that, not only are many operations made easier by CLI-based application,
> but there are some for which the only option is the command-line.
The vast majority of desktop users aren't admins, get that through you
dense keyboard-punching admin skull, Idiot. They are looking for a user
OS, not an admin keyboard-puncher OS.
>
> --
> Real programmers don't use Visual Basic.
Nobody gives a shit what they use if the program works.
Linonut
>> To a lot of these Win-dazed idiots that visit COLA, if it isn't an exact
>> clone of Windows, it is shit.
>
> As you are too dumb to see, a windows lookalike without the security
> issues is what people want, because over 95% use it aready. The fact
> they're not flocking to a widely available free product should be hint
> to it's crapness being a factor (they have no problem flocking to
> Firefox).
They may want it, but they won't get it. Why? Microsoft would never
allow it.
Why do you think there a no other commercial Windows work-alikes out
there?
There are plenty of commercial UNIX work-alikes: AIX, IRIX, Solaris,
and even Mac OSX.
So why no Windows work-alikes? Microsoft won't allow it. Any vendor
that tried it would get slapped silly, then killed.
Look what Microsoft did to Hitachi when a non-Windows system (BeOS) was
proposed as a secondary OS.
Look what Microsoft did when vendors tried to use DR-DOS instead of
MS-DOS on systems.
No hardware vendor today would be insane enough to try to install Linux
as a secondary operating system. Microsoft would PUNISH them.
And, without the safety of having an old, now-familiar OS to fall back
to, most people will feel too intimidated to immediately go to Linux-only
use.
And certainly, the vast majority of people feel they have no ability to
install Linus on their own.
Firefox, my dumb friend, is a simple app install.
So, your attribution to crappiness of relatively few users switching to
Linux, is simply ignorant and misguided.
>> Said attitude speaks volumes, but does so about the poster, not about
>> Windows or Linux.
>
> The oblivious narrowminded admin attitude is what Linux is famous for.
You don't know what in hell your are talking about.
>> Mark Zoom may or may not be an idiot, but he plays one on COLA.
>>
>> If he had done any type of admin on a Windows server, he would know
>> that, not only are many operations made easier by CLI-based application,
>> but there are some for which the only option is the command-line.
>
> The vast majority of desktop users aren't admins, get that through you
> dense keyboard-punching admin skull, Idiot. They are looking for a user
> OS, not an admin keyboard-puncher OS.
Sorry, dude, you are the one with the thick skull. Think about the
terms: "network effects", "monopoly", "per-CPU licenses", "advertising
kickbacks", "incentive programs", "intimidation", "F.U.D.". There are
already Linux distros out there that make XP look silly. But Microsoft
will sure as hell not let a vendor load them dual-boot, and Microsoft
will still collect its payment for Windows, whether it is installed, or
not.
> Nobody gives a shit what they use if the program works.
Most people don't, if it works. But when XP fucks them over, they come
to the guys you characterize as thick-skulled keyboard-punching types to
get it fixed.
Guys like me. Hey, I'm thick-skulled sometimes, but I know how to fix
Linux and Windows problems.
Markie Mark, stay out of bed. Unless you want to get wet.
--
Windows XP is like a box of chocolates --
you never know when the steel bolts are going to spring out and
plunge straight through both cheeks.
Rick
> Linonut wrote:
>> After takin' a swig o' grog, Peter Köhlmann belched out this bit o' wisdom:
>>
>>> mark...@digiverse.net wrote:
>>>>> On Tue, 05 Sep 2006 17:08:17 -0700, markzoom wrote:
>>>>>>> On Tue, 05 Sep 2006 13:39:59 -0700, markzoom wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>> On Tue, 05 Sep 2006 11:06:26 -0700, markzoom wrote:
>>>>>>>> Because for most learning Linux IS a waste of time.
>>>>>> Well since command language is unnecessary, there isn't much time
>>>>>> involved.
>>>> ??? If it has to be used at all it's NECESSARY, Dipstick.
>>>>
>>>> Look, you've made it abundantly clear you don't want Linux to compete
>>>> with windows, so quit pretending it can or does.
>>> You've made it abundantly clear that you are clueless
>> To a lot of these Win-dazed idiots that visit COLA, if it isn't an exact
>> clone of Windows, it is shit.
>
> As you are too dumb to see, a windows lookalike without the security
> issues is what people want, because over 95% use it aready.
Oh well. They have a windows work-alike. They CAN make it fairly secure
if they do their patches in a timely manner, work behind a firewall and
switch to a more secure browser.
> The fact they're not
> flocking to a widely available free product should be hint to it's
> crapness being a factor (they have no problem flocking to Firefox).
Windows is what's installed on 95% of the shipping desktops. As a rule,
people use exactly what they are given.
>> Said attitude speaks volumes, but does so about the poster, not about
>> Windows or Linux.
>
> The oblivious narrowminded admin attitude is what Linux is famous for.
Your lying bigtory is what you are famous for.
>
>> Mark Zoom may or may not be an idiot, but he plays one on COLA.
>>
>> If he had done any type of admin on a Windows server, he would know
>> that, not only are many operations made easier by CLI-based application,
>> but there are some for which the only option is the command-line.
>
> The vast majority of desktop users aren't admins, get that through you
> dense keyboard-punching admin skull, Idiot. They are looking for a user
> OS, not an admin keyboard-puncher OS.
>
>> --
>> Real programmers don't use Visual Basic.
>
> Nobody gives a shit what they use if the program works.
>
--
Rick
mark...@digiverse.net
Linonut wrote:
> After takin' a swig o' grog, mark...@digiverse.net belched out this bit o' wisdom:
>
> >> To a lot of these Win-dazed idiots that visit COLA, if it isn't an exact
> >> clone of Windows, it is shit.
> >
> > As you are too dumb to see, a windows lookalike without the security
> > issues is what people want, because over 95% use it aready. The fact
> > they're not flocking to a widely available free product should be hint
> > to it's crapness being a factor (they have no problem flocking to
> > Firefox).
>
> They may want it, but they won't get it. Why? Microsoft would never
> allow it.
Oh, that old excuse...
>
> Why do you think there a no other commercial Windows work-alikes out
> there?
>
> There are plenty of commercial UNIX work-alikes: AIX, IRIX, Solaris,
> and even Mac OSX.
>
> So why no Windows work-alikes? Microsoft won't allow it. Any vendor
> that tried it would get slapped silly, then killed.
>
> Look what Microsoft did to Hitachi when a non-Windows system (BeOS) was
> proposed as a secondary OS.
>
> Look what Microsoft did when vendors tried to use DR-DOS instead of
> MS-DOS on systems.
>
> No hardware vendor today would be insane enough to try to install Linux
> as a secondary operating system. Microsoft would PUNISH them.
>
> And, without the safety of having an old, now-familiar OS to fall back
> to, most people will feel too intimidated to immediately go to Linux-only
> use.
>
> And certainly, the vast majority of people feel they have no ability to
> install Linus on their own.
>
> Firefox, my dumb friend, is a simple app install.
Yup, one that a large number of people adopted instead of IE and is
simply seen as *better*.
>
> So, your attribution to crappiness of relatively few users switching to
> Linux, is simply ignorant and misguided.
Firefox is a free app that Microsoft couldn't stop.
>
> >> Said attitude speaks volumes, but does so about the poster, not about
> >> Windows or Linux.
> >
> > The oblivious narrowminded admin attitude is what Linux is famous for.
>
> You don't know what in hell your are talking about.
I'm not surprised that you don't understand what I'm talking about.
>
> >> Mark Zoom may or may not be an idiot, but he plays one on COLA.
> >>
> >> If he had done any type of admin on a Windows server, he would know
> >> that, not only are many operations made easier by CLI-based application,
> >> but there are some for which the only option is the command-line.
> >
> > The vast majority of desktop users aren't admins, get that through you
> > dense keyboard-punching admin skull, Idiot. They are looking for a user
> > OS, not an admin keyboard-puncher OS.
>
> Sorry, dude, you are the one with the thick skull. Think about the
> terms: "network effects", "monopoly", "per-CPU licenses", "advertising
> kickbacks", "incentive programs", "intimidation", "F.U.D.". There are
> already Linux distros out there that make XP look silly. But Microsoft
> will sure as hell not let a vendor load them dual-boot, and Microsoft
> will still collect its payment for Windows, whether it is installed, or
> not.
And again you prove what a brainless dumbass one-trick geek you are.
If it's good, it's free and it's out there people will use it (look at
Firefox).
Linux is out there (has been for ages) it's free but people don't use
it because it's not usable by them. Now crying to mummy about how
unfair microsoft is is no excuse for the abysmal take-up rate of free
and available software (Linux). It's not good enough for people to
want.
>
> > Nobody gives a shit what they use if the program works.
>
> Most people don't, if it works. But when XP fucks them over, they come
> to the guys you characterize as thick-skulled keyboard-punching types to
> get it fixed.
Something else home users can't do with Linux, get a geek in to fix it.
>
> Guys like me. Hey, I'm thick-skulled sometimes, but I know how to fix
> Linux and Windows problems.
So what's your point?
>
> Markie Mark, stay out of bed. Unless you want to get wet.
???
Linonut
> And again you prove what a brainless dumbass one-trick geek you are.
> If it's good, it's free and it's out there people will use it (look at
> Firefox).
You're confused. Imagine comparing a simple app download-and-install with a
full-blown operating system multi-CD ISO download and an installation
process that will modify your hard-drive partitioning scheme.
> Linux is out there (has been for ages) it's free but people don't use
> it because it's not usable by them. Now crying to mummy about how
> unfair microsoft is is no excuse for the abysmal take-up rate of free
> and available software (Linux). It's not good enough for people to
> want.
I think you are confused about the "abysmal take-up rate" of Linux,
anyway.
I suspect far more people have it, and use it regularly, than Max OSX.
Certainly more people than show up in any "market survey".
Linux is dark matter, my friend.
Keep whistling in the dark, there's a good fellow, that will keep you
safe.
>> Most people don't, if it works. But when XP fucks them over, they come
>> to the guys you characterize as thick-skulled keyboard-punching types to
>> get it fixed.
>
> Something else home users can't do with Linux, get a geek in to fix it.
Sure they can. Linux geeks are everywhere.
Zoom zoom
--
To boldly go where I surely don't belong.
Gubo Dangle
>
> Linux is dark matter, my friend.
>
Peter Köhlmann
"Dark brown matter" is easily visible. Like XP on most machines sold
If you want it or not. "Dark matter" is difficult to visualize. Like "one
set of linux sold", installed on dozens of machines, legally
--
There are no stupid questions, but there are a lot of inquisitive idiots.
Linonut
> Linonut submitted this idea :
>> After takin' a swig o' grog, mark...@digiverse.net belched out this bit o'
>> wisdom:
>>
>> Linux is dark matter, my friend.
>>
> Would that be dark brown matter?
No.
Seek the answer inside yourself.
--
Q: Why does a Linux user compile his kernel?
A: Because he can.
DFS
> After takin' a swig o' grog, Gubo Dangle belched out this bit o'
> wisdom:
>
>> Linonut submitted this idea :
>>> After takin' a swig o' grog, mark...@digiverse.net belched out
>>> this bit o' wisdom:
>>>
>>> Linux is dark matter, my friend.
>>>
>> Would that be dark brown matter?
>
> No.
>
> Seek the answer inside yourself.
heee... this is why you're the Man on cola
Linonut
Nah. I'm dah Boy!
--
It's not a bug, it's a feature!
DFS
> After takin' a swig o' grog, mark...@digiverse.net belched out this
> bit o' wisdom:
>
>>> To a lot of these Win-dazed idiots that visit COLA, if it isn't an
>>> exact clone of Windows, it is shit.
>>
>> As you are too dumb to see, a windows lookalike without the security
>> issues is what people want, because over 95% use it aready. The fact
>> they're not flocking to a widely available free product should be
>> hint to it's crapness being a factor (they have no problem flocking
>> to Firefox).
>
> They may want it, but they won't get it. Why? Microsoft would never
> allow it.
MS can't stop it. MS couldn't stop OpenOffice from cloning Word and Excel -
and Office is their most prized cash cow.
> Why do you think there a no other commercial Windows work-alikes out
> there?
What are you talking about? That's what Linspire and Xandros try to be.
> There are plenty of commercial UNIX work-alikes: AIX, IRIX, Solaris,
> and even Mac OSX.
That's because 1,2,3 bought Unix code and added to it. And 4 used open
source.
Windows source isn't for sale.
> So why no Windows work-alikes? Microsoft won't allow it. Any vendor
> that tried it would get slapped silly, then killed.
MS has "allowed" WINE to [try to] duplicate the Win32 API.
> Look what Microsoft did to Hitachi when a non-Windows system (BeOS)
> was proposed as a secondary OS.
The term "secondary" gives BeOS a status it doesn't deserve.
> Look what Microsoft did when vendors tried to use DR-DOS instead of
> MS-DOS on systems.
Tell us, Rex.
> Noendor today would be insane enough to try to install Linux
> as a secondary operating system. Microsoft would PUNISH them.
MS cannot punish them.
> And, without the safety of having an old, now-familiar OS to fall back
> to, most people will feel too intimidated to immediately go to
> Linux-only use.
>
> And certainly, the vast majority of people feel they have no ability
> to install Linus on their own.
That's not MS' fault.
> Sorry, dude, you are the one with the thick skull. Think about the
> terms: "network effects", "monopoly", "per-CPU licenses",
> "advertising kickbacks", "incentive programs", "intimidation",
> "F.U.D.". There are already Linux distros out there that make XP look
> silly.
Yeah... I guess Suse has a nice box. Just don't install what's in it.
> But Microsoft will sure as hell not let a vendor load them dual-boot,
MS can't stop them from offering dual-boot systems.
> and Microsoft will still collect its payment for
> Windows, whether it is installed, or not.
Only if the vendor has agreed to this arrangement.
Hadron Quark
And to add to this : published their stable APIs to make it easier.
I know. I was involved in a "in between" API where we mapped the Win32
to OS/2 PM. The upside down shit caused some problems, but we handled
it. Anyone reading that knows there stuff will understand.
>
>
>> Look what Microsoft did to Hitachi when a non-Windows system (BeOS)
>> was proposed as a secondary OS.
>
> The term "secondary" gives BeOS a status it doesn't deserve.
>
>
>> Look what Microsoft did when vendors tried to use DR-DOS instead of
>> MS-DOS on systems.
Who the fuck is still talking about that?!?!?!
>
> Tell us, Rex.
>
>
>
>> Noendor today would be insane enough to try to install Linux
>> as a secondary operating system. Microsoft would PUNISH them.
>
> MS cannot punish them.
>
>
>> And, without the safety of having an old, now-familiar OS to fall back
>> to, most people will feel too intimidated to immediately go to
>> Linux-only use.
>>
>> And certainly, the vast majority of people feel they have no ability
>> to install Linus on their own.
>
> That's not MS' fault.
How could it be? But in fairness, who is claiming it is?
>
>
>
>> Sorry, dude, you are the one with the thick skull. Think about the
>> terms: "network effects", "monopoly", "per-CPU licenses",
>> "advertising kickbacks", "incentive programs", "intimidation",
>> "F.U.D.". There are already Linux distros out there that make XP look
>> silly.
>
> Yeah... I guess Suse has a nice box. Just don't install what's in it.
>
>
>
>> But Microsoft will sure as hell not let a vendor load them dual-boot,
>
> MS can't stop them from offering dual-boot systems.
Correct. Hence my little "How I reinstalled Ubuntu" article.
>
>
>
>> and Microsoft will still collect its payment for
>> Windows, whether it is installed, or not.
>
> Only if the vendor has agreed to this arrangement.
>
I dont undertand what the previous poster is trying to say.
>
>
>
--
* This is complicated. Has to do with interrupts. Thus, I am
* scared witless. Therefore I refuse to write this function. :-P
-- From the maclinux patch
DFS
>>> Look what Microsoft did when vendors tried to use DR-DOS instead of
>>> MS-DOS on systems.
>
> Who the fuck is still talking about that?!?!?!
Every cola nutcase. Even though not a single retail customer was ever
interfered with, lying Linux liars want to twist history to suit their
distorted worldview.
>>> and Microsoft will still collect its payment for
>>> Windows, whether it is installed, or not.
>>
>> Only if the vendor has agreed to this arrangement.
>>
> I dont undertand what the previous poster is trying to say.
MS used to (maybe still does) offer 'per-processor' licenses, wherein the
OEM has to pay MS a license fee for each box shipped, whether it has Windows
on it or not.
Of course, the dishonest bozos here in wee-wee land claim MS forces OEMs to
sign these contracts.
Au79
> Hadron Quark wrote:
>
>>>> Look what Microsoft did when vendors tried to use DR-DOS instead of
>>>> MS-DOS on systems.
>>
>> wherein
Ahh... conversation between two idiots.
--
....................
http://www.vanwensveen.nl/rants/microsoft/IhateMS.html
mark...@digiverse.net
Linonut wrote:
> After takin' a swig o' grog, mark...@digiverse.net belched out this bit o' wisdom:
>
> > And again you prove what a brainless dumbass one-trick geek you are.
> > If it's good, it's free and it's out there people will use it (look at
> > Firefox).
>
> You're confused. Imagine comparing a simple app download-and-install with a
> full-blown operating system multi-CD ISO download and an installation
> process that will modify your hard-drive partitioning scheme.
>
> > Linux is out there (has been for ages) it's free but people don't use
> > it because it's not usable by them. Now crying to mummy about how
> > unfair microsoft is is no excuse for the abysmal take-up rate of free
> > and available software (Linux). It's not good enough for people to
> > want.
>
> I think you are confused about the "abysmal take-up rate" of Linux,
> anyway.
You would.
>
> I suspect far more people have it, and use it regularly, than Max OSX.
>
> Certainly more people than show up in any "market survey".
The usual erroneous claim is that Linux doesn't show in a "market"
surrvey because it's "free", yet most in surveys of the browser
"market" the free browsers still show.
>
> Linux is dark matter, my friend.
Brown matter.
>
> Keep whistling in the dark, there's a good fellow, that will keep you
> safe.
>
> >> Most people don't, if it works. But when XP fucks them over, they come
> >> to the guys you characterize as thick-skulled keyboard-punching types to
> >> get it fixed.
> >
> > Something else home users can't do with Linux, get a geek in to fix it.
>
> Sure they can. Linux geeks are everywhere.
In cities maybe you might find one but here there's no professional who
would come and fix it (he'd have to be fluent with all the latest
releases of all distros too).
mark...@digiverse.net
Peter Köhlmann wrote:
> Gubo Dangle wrote:
>
> > Linonut submitted this idea :
> >> After takin' a swig o' grog, mark...@digiverse.net belched out this bit
> >> o' wisdom:
> >>
> > ..
> >>
> >> Linux is dark matter, my friend.
> >>
> > Would that be dark brown matter?
>
> "Dark brown matter" is easily visible. Like XP on most machines sold
> If you want it or not. "Dark matter" is difficult to visualize. Like "one
> set of linux sold", installed on dozens of machines, legally
and now wiped or sitting in a corner on an obsoleting computer
gathering dust.
No figures available on how many of the bought or downloaded distros
actually survive. I forked out for Suse 6 and wiped it inside a month.
Hadron Quark
And aint that the truth. During my recent reinstall, I pointed out in my
"Dapper install log" that I screwed up my leafnode caches. Went googling
for info. And guess what? Yup : everything was in a different location
on Dapper than the documentation suggested. It wasnt a big issue, but it
could potentially have been : the main issue is one of confidence. OK,
if they have moved this stuff here, what other things have they tinkered
with which might affect my fault finding?
But then I'm stupid. As Boaster would say : "Problems with Linux?
Pffft."
>
>>
>> Zoom zoom
>>
>> --
>> To boldly go where I surely don't belong.
>
--
No campfires allowed.
Rick
>
> Linonut wrote:
>> After takin' a swig o' grog, mark...@digiverse.net belched out this bit
>> o' wisdom:
>>
>> > And again you prove what a brainless dumbass one-trick geek you are.
>> > If it's good, it's free and it's out there people will use it (look at
>> > Firefox).
>>
>> You're confused. Imagine comparing a simple app download-and-install
>> with a full-blown operating system multi-CD ISO download and an
>> installation process that will modify your hard-drive partitioning
>> scheme.
>>
>> > Linux is out there (has been for ages) it's free but people don't use
>> > it because it's not usable by them. Now crying to mummy about how
>> > unfair microsoft is is no excuse for the abysmal take-up rate of free
>> > and available software (Linux). It's not good enough for people to
>> > want.
>>
>> I think you are confused about the "abysmal take-up rate" of Linux,
>> anyway.
>
> You would.
It seems others think you are confused about the "abysmal take-up rate" of
Linux.
>
>
>> I suspect far more people have it, and use it regularly, than Max OSX.
>>
>> Certainly more people than show up in any "market survey".
>
> The usual erroneous claim is that Linux doesn't show in a "market" surrvey
> because it's "free", yet most in surveys of the browser "market" the free
> browsers still show.
No kidding? Gee...
Maybe you can tell us how to count the number of installs that occur from
a single downloaded iso? Market share won't show them, since they aren't
sold.
Browsers IDs can be (inaccurately) counted from server hits.
>
>
>> Linux is dark matter, my friend.
>
> Brown matter.
That's your brain. Anal-cranial inversion.
>
>
>> Keep whistling in the dark, there's a good fellow, that will keep you
>> safe.
>>
>> >> Most people don't, if it works. But when XP fucks them over, they
>> >> come to the guys you characterize as thick-skulled keyboard-punching
>> >> types to get it fixed.
>> >
>> > Something else home users can't do with Linux, get a geek in to fix
>> > it.
>>
>> Sure they can. Linux geeks are everywhere.
>
> In cities maybe you might find one but here there's no professional who
> would come and fix it (he'd have to be fluent with all the latest releases
> of all distros too).
You keep making these erroneous all encompassing dumb-ass statements.
mark...@digiverse.net
Rick wrote:
> On Sat, 09 Sep 2006 03:28:50 -0700, markzoom wrote:
>
> >
> > Linonut wrote:
> >> After takin' a swig o' grog, mark...@digiverse.net belched out this bit
> >> o' wisdom:
> >>
> >> > And again you prove what a brainless dumbass one-trick geek you are.
> >> > If it's good, it's free and it's out there people will use it (look at
> >> > Firefox).
> >>
> >> You're confused. Imagine comparing a simple app download-and-install
> >> with a full-blown operating system multi-CD ISO download and an
> >> installation process that will modify your hard-drive partitioning
> >> scheme.
> >>
> >> > Linux is out there (has been for ages) it's free but people don't use
> >> > it because it's not usable by them. Now crying to mummy about how
> >> > unfair microsoft is is no excuse for the abysmal take-up rate of free
> >> > and available software (Linux). It's not good enough for people to
> >> > want.
> >>
> >> I think you are confused about the "abysmal take-up rate" of Linux,
> >> anyway.
> >
> > You would.
>
> It seems others think you are confused about the "abysmal take-up rate" of
> Linux.
It's clear you are deluded about reality. I'm also certain that nobody
tries to keep track of how many people go back to/stay with
windows/mac after they tried a Linux and dumped it. I'm on the fourth
Linux abandonment now.
>
> >
> >
> >> I suspect far more people have it, and use it regularly, than Max OSX.
> >>
> >> Certainly more people than show up in any "market survey".
> >
> > The usual erroneous claim is that Linux doesn't show in a "market" surrvey
> > because it's "free", yet most in surveys of the browser "market" the free
> > browsers still show.
>
> No kidding? Gee...
> Maybe you can tell us how to count the number of installs that occur from
> a single downloaded iso? Market share won't show them, since they aren't
> sold.
Nor does it show how many get dumped after the try.
Surveys of actual computer users offer the best snapshot.
>
> Browsers IDs can be (inaccurately) counted from server hits.
>
> >
> >
> >> Linux is dark matter, my friend.
> >
> > Brown matter.
>
> That's your brain. Anal-cranial inversion.
>
> >
> >
> >> Keep whistling in the dark, there's a good fellow, that will keep you
> >> safe.
> >>
> >> >> Most people don't, if it works. But when XP fucks them over, they
> >> >> come to the guys you characterize as thick-skulled keyboard-punching
> >> >> types to get it fixed.
> >> >
> >> > Something else home users can't do with Linux, get a geek in to fix
> >> > it.
> >>
> >> Sure they can. Linux geeks are everywhere.
> >
> > In cities maybe you might find one but here there's no professional who
> > would come and fix it (he'd have to be fluent with all the latest releases
> > of all distros too).
>
> You keep making these erroneous all encompassing dumb-ass statements.
It's you who's claiming everyone can call out a Linux doctor.
>
>
> --
> Rick
> <http://ricks-place.tripod.com/sound/2cents.wav>
Rick
It is amazing how you trumpet your stupidity. ... dumped Linux four times.
>
>
>>
>> >
>> >> I suspect far more people have it, and use it regularly, than Max
>> >> OSX.
>> >>
>> >> Certainly more people than show up in any "market survey".
>> >
>> > The usual erroneous claim is that Linux doesn't show in a "market"
>> > surrvey because it's "free", yet most in surveys of the browser
>> > "market" the free browsers still show.
>>
>> No kidding? Gee...
>> Maybe you can tell us how to count the number of installs that occur
>> from a single downloaded iso? Market share won't show them, since they
>> aren't sold.
>
> Nor does it show how many get dumped after the try.
No, it doesn't. Thanks for agreeing that Linux based operating systmes
don't show well in 'market' surveys.
>
> Surveys of actual computer users offer the best snapshot.
That's a user base survey and they can be heavily skewed, too.
>
>
>> Browsers IDs can be (inaccurately) counted from server hits.
>>
>>
>> >
>> >> Linux is dark matter, my friend.
>> >
>> > Brown matter.
>>
>> That's your brain. Anal-cranial inversion.
>>
>>
>> >
>> >> Keep whistling in the dark, there's a good fellow, that will keep you
>> >> safe.
>> >>
>> >> >> Most people don't, if it works. But when XP fucks them over, they
>> >> >> come to the guys you characterize as thick-skulled
>> >> >> keyboard-punching types to get it fixed.
>> >> >
>> >> > Something else home users can't do with Linux, get a geek in to fix
>> >> > it.
>> >>
>> >> Sure they can. Linux geeks are everywhere.
>> >
>> > In cities maybe you might find one but here there's no professional
>> > who would come and fix it (he'd have to be fluent with all the latest
>> > releases of all distros too).
>>
>> You keep making these erroneous all encompassing dumb-ass statements.
>
> It's you who's claiming everyone can call out a Linux doctor.
you're a liar.
Linonut
> Linonut wrote:
>>
>> They may want it, but they won't get it. Why? Microsoft would never
>> allow it.
>
> MS can't stop it. MS couldn't stop OpenOffice from cloning Word and Excel -
> and Office is their most prized cash cow.
Why do I need to clarify this? I'm talking about a Windows clone, not
something that aspires to be enough like Windows to satisfy the masses.
>> Why do you think there a no other commercial Windows work-alikes out
>> there?
>
> What are you talking about? That's what Linspire and Xandros try to be.
No, I'm talking about a system that runs Windows apps, uses Windows
drivers, etc.
>> There are plenty of commercial UNIX work-alikes: AIX, IRIX, Solaris,
>> and even Mac OSX.
>
> That's because 1,2,3 bought Unix code and added to it. And 4 used open
> source.
>
> Windows source isn't for sale.
I'm not even talking source. I'm talking about a known API.
>> So why no Windows work-alikes? Microsoft won't allow it. Any vendor
>> that tried it would get slapped silly, then killed.
>
> MS has "allowed" WINE to [try to] duplicate the Win32 API.
And why do they let it live?
1. It is not Windows, it is not a whole OS, it is a subsystem. Same
with ndiswrapper.
2. Wine is not a commercial entity. Surely you remember Ballmer
crowing about how they could beat RedHat, if not Linux, because
they knew how to deal with commercial entities.
>> Look what Microsoft did when vendors tried to use DR-DOS instead of
>> MS-DOS on systems.
>
> Tell us, Rex.
You don't need Rex to tell you. This stuff is documented, not just
online, but in books.
>> Noendor today would be insane enough to try to install Linux
>> as a secondary operating system. Microsoft would PUNISH them.
>
> MS cannot punish them.
Yes, they can.
>> And certainly, the vast majority of people feel they have no ability
>> to install Linus on their own.
>
> That's not MS' fault.
Oh, I agree.
That's something that Microsoft got right (sort of) -- providing a
standard system that is (normally) simple enough to use. The next thing
they got right was choking off competition and obtaining a choke-hold on
the vendors.
With that chokehold, they wield a lot of influence, your dazed denials
notwithstanding.
> Yeah... I guess Suse has a nice box. Just don't install what's in it.
I've never tried SuSE myself, but I know one dude who loves it.
>> But Microsoft will sure as hell not let a vendor load them dual-boot,
>
> MS can't stop them from offering dual-boot systems.
Of course not. However, they can offer incentives for them not to, or,
equivalently, disincentives for them to do it. They did it with DOS,
they still do it with Windows. It's marketing, aided by a monopoly
which the government aimed at and missed, and now doesn't care about.
>> and Microsoft will still collect its payment for
>> Windows, whether it is installed, or not.
>
> Only if the vendor has agreed to this arrangement.
And tell me, dear DFS, about the vendors that have not agreed to this
arrangment? Emperor Linux? Or the mass of server vendors?
I would wonder how DELL separates the two domains.
My point, I believe, still stands. The reason Linux is not more popular
in the market (as opposed to the hobbyist and server camp, where it is
quite popular) is not due to its quality. It is due to the punishments a
vendor would endure should it dare to cross swords with Microsoft.
Hell, Lindows had to change its name! Long live Mike Rowe!
--
Windows XP. When you need a non-deterministic operating system.
Linonut
> Of course, the dishonest bozos here in wee-wee land claim MS forces OEMs to
> sign these contracts.
We are mostly honest in here. We are mostly not bozos here. This is a
wee-wee-land, though it reflects some reality.
MS doesn't force OEMs to sign these contracts directly anymore. Now
they implicitly force them through the fact that (1) there is no
Windows-compatible alternative, at all; (2) Linux does not yet have
mindshare amongst the consumer rank-and-file.
What I find humorous is that you people think that Microsoft has not
figured out its market puzzle from all angles, and has not taken action
on each item in the puzzle, especially when most of their tactics are
well-documented.
But even lacking documentation or word of mouth, it should be obvious to
anyone who takes the time to think it through, that Microsoft itself has
taken a lot of time to think it through.
We have a multitude of sources for every kind of product you can
imagine, except for Windows-compatible systems or even Linux-compatible
systems, on consumer computers.
--
"He's dead, Jim!"
Linonut
>> Sure they can. Linux geeks are everywhere.
>
> In cities maybe you might find one but here there's no professional who
> would come and fix it (he'd have to be fluent with all the latest
> releases of all distros too).
No, he wouldn't.
Zoom zoom.
Linonut
> No figures available on how many of the bought or downloaded distros
> actually survive. I forked out for Suse 6 and wiped it inside a month.
Wassamatta, didn't you have broadband? Try before you buy?
--
I believe the technical term is "Oops!"
flatfish+++
>
>> MS has "allowed" WINE to [try to] duplicate the Win32 API.
>
> And why do they let it live?
>
> 1. It is not Windows, it is not a whole OS, it is a subsystem. Same
> with ndiswrapper.
>
> 2. Wine is not a commercial entity. Surely you remember Ballmer
> crowing about how they could beat RedHat, if not Linux, because
> they knew how to deal with commercial entities.
My theory is that wine is so bad it actually does damage to the Linux
community.
Face it, installing, configuring, tweaking (differently for different
applications) and then ending up with an application that has bugs, lacks
full features etc is not good press for Linux at all.
>
> My point, I believe, still stands. The reason Linux is not more popular
> in the market (as opposed to the hobbyist and server camp, where it is
> quite popular) is not due to its quality. It is due to the punishments a
> vendor would endure should it dare to cross swords with Microsoft.
> Hell, Lindows had to change its name! Long live Mike Rowe!
Linux is not popular with average Joe because:
1. Average Joe already has Windows and can't wait till Vi$ta comes out.
2 Average Joe already has a fortune invested in Windows applications.
3. Average Joe's friends/relatives run Windows.
4. Average Joe's kids schools run Windows
5. Average Joe runs Windows at work for his job.
6. Security alone is not enough for Joe to switch to Linux.
7. Average Joe's hardware works with Windows. All of his hardware.
8. Average Joe hasn't even heard of Linux.
..and for that last one, I've seen several spots on CNN etc where Linux
has been talked about and it is usually prefaced with something like
"you've probably never heard of an operating system called Linux but......"
This is the way it is and until Linux can overcome at least a few of the
above by doing things better and getting preloaded support, Linux will be
destined for servers, geeks and embedded devices where it is clearly an
excellent system.
Just look at Dell and the others.
They are advertising, or at least making mention of Vista already and
chances are it won't arrive till May 2007.
This is the way the world works.
If Vista was released today and given away free for a week, there would be
riots in the street.
Yet Linux?
Free every day.
Draw your own conclusions.
Kier
> On Sat, 09 Sep 2006 08:06:19 -0500, Linonut wrote:
>
>>
>>> MS has "allowed" WINE to [try to] duplicate the Win32 API.
>>
>> And why do they let it live?
>>
>> 1. It is not Windows, it is not a whole OS, it is a subsystem. Same
>> with ndiswrapper.
>>
>> 2. Wine is not a commercial entity. Surely you remember Ballmer
>> crowing about how they could beat RedHat, if not Linux, because
>> they knew how to deal with commercial entities.
>
> My theory is that wine is so bad it actually does damage to the Linux
> community.
> Face it, installing, configuring, tweaking (differently for different
> applications) and then ending up with an application that has bugs, lacks
> full features etc is not good press for Linux at all.
>
>
>>
>> My point, I believe, still stands. The reason Linux is not more popular
>> in the market (as opposed to the hobbyist and server camp, where it is
>> quite popular) is not due to its quality. It is due to the punishments a
>> vendor would endure should it dare to cross swords with Microsoft.
>> Hell, Lindows had to change its name! Long live Mike Rowe!
>
> Linux is not popular with average Joe because:
>
> 1. Average Joe already has Windows and can't wait till Vi$ta comes out.
All teh average users I know have barely mentioned Vista. I doubt they
know anything much about it, or are eagerly awaiting it, unless they're
geeks.
> 2 Average Joe already has a fortune invested in Windows applications.
Possible, but not always. I never did. There were plenty of free apps
about, including excellent open source ones. Look at any computer magazine
there are always giveaways.
> 3. Average Joe's friends/relatives run Windows.
True.
> 4. Average Joe's kids schools run Windows
Or Macs. This is a great pity, since it then teaches them about MS apps
and not how to use computers generally.
> 5. Average Joe runs Windows at work for his job.
Some do. Some don't.
> 6. Security alone is not enough for Joe to switch to Linux.
It depends on how bad a time he's had with malware, etc, and how aware he
is of Windows' weaknesses being a large factor it this.
> 7. Average Joe's hardware works with Windows. All of his hardware.
As it damn well should, consdiering the stuff is *designed* to work with
Windows, and very little else.
> 8. Average Joe hasn't even heard of Linux.
Some have. I know of at least one very average workmate who spoke to me
about it, having discovered it for himself.
>
> ..and for that last one, I've seen several spots on CNN etc where Linux
> has been talked about and it is usually prefaced with something like
>
> "you've probably never heard of an operating system called Linux but......"
... you soon will.
>
> This is the way it is and until Linux can overcome at least a few of the
> above by doing things better and getting preloaded support, Linux will be
> destined for servers, geeks and embedded devices where it is clearly an
> excellent system.
>
> Just look at Dell and the others.
> They are advertising, or at least making mention of Vista already and
> chances are it won't arrive till May 2007.
>
> This is the way the world works.
The commercial world, yes.
>
> If Vista was released today and given away free for a week, there would be
> riots in the street.
> Yet Linux?
> Free every day.
>
> Draw your own conclusions.
You already said why Linux is not more often used: most poeple have yet to
hear of it. If they haven't heard of it, of course they are not going to
switch to it.
Did you have a point beyond stating the obvious?
--
Kier
Linonut
> My theory is that wine is so bad it actually does damage to the Linux
> community.
I've had trouble with wine (a few months ago).
Sure, a perfect wine would probably allow many more people to migrate to
Windows.
But, an imperfect wine doesn't have the opposite effect, I believe.
I believe people generally applaud wine for doing as much as it has.
And, if wine were perfect, you can be sure Microsoft would swoop down to
crush it like grape. (Making it real wine.)
> Face it, installing, configuring, tweaking (differently for different
> applications) and then ending up with an application that has bugs, lacks
> full features etc is not good press for Linux at all.
While wine is problematic, I would postulate the following:
The inability of lagniappe to operate flawlessly does not hurt the
fundamentals.
> Linux is not popular with average Joe because:
>
> 1. Average Joe already has Windows and can't wait till Vi$ta comes out.
> 2 Average Joe already has a fortune invested in Windows applications.
> 3. Average Joe's friends/relatives run Windows.
> 4. Average Joe's kids schools run Windows
> 5. Average Joe runs Windows at work for his job.
> 6. Security alone is not enough for Joe to switch to Linux.
> 7. Average Joe's hardware works with Windows. All of his hardware.
> 8. Average Joe hasn't even heard of Linux.
>
> ..and for that last one, I've seen several spots on CNN etc where Linux
> has been talked about and it is usually prefaced with something like
>
> "you've probably never heard of an operating system called Linux but......"
>
> This is the way it is and until Linux can overcome at least a few of the
> above by doing things better and getting preloaded support, Linux will be
> destined for servers, geeks and embedded devices where it is clearly an
> excellent system.
>
> Just look at Dell and the others.
> They are advertising, or at least making mention of Vista already and
> chances are it won't arrive till May 2007.
>
> This is the way the world works.
I pretty much agree.
> If Vista was released today and given away free for a week, there would be
> riots in the street.
> Yet Linux?
> Free every day.
>
> Draw your own conclusions.
How can I draw a conclusion from what is surely a supposition on your
part?
I seriously doubt Joe knows much, if anything, about Vista.
It was the same thing when XP came out. My wife didn't even know what
the hell it was until I told her.
And, if Joe did pick up his copy of Vista, how would he install it?
And, if he did install it, wouldn't he surely be pissed off (highly
pissed off) when it runs like molasses in January on his old PC?
You betcha.
You see, you conflate the average joe with the technically knowledgable
user, using premises based on one group to make deductions for the other
group.
Not logical.
--
I love the smell of source code compiling in the morning.
It smells like... freedom.
flatfish+++
>
> Sure, a perfect wine would probably allow many more people to migrate to
> Windows.
I think you mean from Windows, but I agree with you.
> But, an imperfect wine doesn't have the opposite effect, I believe.
> I believe people generally applaud wine for doing as much as it has.
Personally, I think it's amazing but still the person who is going to use
wine is someone who is set on Linux already and may have a Windows
application or two that he needs.
> And, if wine were perfect, you can be sure Microsoft would swoop down to
> crush it like grape. (Making it real wine.)
Exactly and that is my point.
> While wine is problematic, I would postulate the following:
>
> The inability of lagniappe to operate flawlessly does not hurt the
> fundamentals.
Not from a theoretical pov but from a users pov it does.
In order for wine to succeed it has to allow the user as easy an
experience installing and running a given program as he would have under
Windows and from my experience it rarely works that way.
> How can I draw a conclusion from what is surely a supposition on your
> part?
This entire group is supposition :)
> I seriously doubt Joe knows much, if anything, about Vista.
I thought that until I was in Borders the other day and took a look at the
PC Rags and just about every single one is pimping Vista right on the
cover!
Nauseating!
Joe loves these things!!
> It was the same thing when XP came out. My wife didn't even know what
> the hell it was until I told her.
The kids will know first.
The parents a distant second :)
> And, if Joe did pick up his copy of Vista, how would he install it? And,
> if he did install it, wouldn't he surely be pissed off (highly pissed
> off) when it runs like molasses in January on his old PC?
Yea sure thing!
And THAT is why I have been predicting that Vi$ta is going to be a huge
flop in the retail market.
I will go one step further in that I suspect PC sales are going to slump
as well because I think we have pretty much bottomed out on hardware
price/dollar and let's face it Vi$ta has some pretty hefty hardware
requirements.
Are people going to buy new systems just to run it?
Doubtful.
I know for a fact the DAW crowd is not looking forward to Vi$ta at all.
If MS pulls XP support, hello Mac and even if they don't many are
patiently waiting for the MacIntel to stabilize and then they are going to
jump ship.
> You betcha.
>
> You see, you conflate the average joe with the technically knowledgable
> user, using premises based on one group to make deductions for the other
> group.
>
> Not logical.
Both groups are really subsets of each other to some degree.
DFS
> After takin' a swig o' grog, DFS belched out this bit o' wisdom:
>
>> Linonut wrote:
>>>
>>> They may want it, but they won't get it. Why? Microsoft would
>>> never allow it.
>>
>> MS can't stop it. MS couldn't stop OpenOffice from cloning Word and
>> Excel - and Office is their most prized cash cow.
>
> Why do I need to clarify this? I'm talking about a Windows clone, not
> something that aspires to be enough like Windows to satisfy the
> masses.
See http://www.reactos.org/en/index.html
And an MSOffice clone is at least as valuable as a Windows clone, as Office
is more profitable for MS than is Windows.
>> Windows source isn't for sale.
>
> I'm not even talking source. I'm talking about a known API.
The Windows API is known.
> That's something that Microsoft got right (sort of) -- providing a
> standard system that is (normally) simple enough to use.
Yes. Getting that part right was the first step. "Selling it right" was
the next and maybe more difficult piece: marketing, pricing, licensing, and
support. MS built a fantastic business around a 'plenty good enough'
product.
> The next
> thing they got right was choking off competition and obtaining a
> choke-hold on the vendors.
>
> With that chokehold, they wield a lot of influence, your dazed denials
> notwithstanding.
There is no chokehold. Every OEM is free to quit selling Windows (subject
to whatever contracts are in place). And every new hardware OEM company
(and dozens are started up each year - see the pages of any computer mag) is
free to sell whatever they want; they all sell Windows.
>>> But Microsoft will sure as hell not let a vendor load them
>>> dual-boot,
>>
>> MS can't stop them from offering dual-boot systems.
>
> Of course not. However, they can offer incentives for them not to, or,
> equivalently, disincentives for them to do it. They did it with DOS,
> they still do it with Windows. It's marketing, aided by a monopoly
> which the government aimed at and missed, and now doesn't care about.
I'm not sure the government should care. Everyone on the planet can choose
whatever OS they want: to buy, sell, install, develop. The only barrier to
entry is the resulting quality of the product.
Now if you start whining that BestBuy and Office Depot won't sell Linux
systems, I'll remind you that has nothing at all to do with MS.
>>> and Microsoft will still collect its payment for
>>> Windows, whether it is installed, or not.
>>
>> Only if the vendor has agreed to this arrangement.
>
> And tell me, dear DFS, about the vendors that have not agreed to this
> arrangment? Emperor Linux? Or the mass of server vendors?
What about them, guy? They don't pay MS one red cent.
> I would wonder how DELL separates the two domains.
Dell sells/pre-installs whatever they want. Windows, Linux, FreeDOS or (I
believe) systems with no OS.
> My point, I believe, still stands. The reason Linux is not more
> popular in the market (as opposed to the hobbyist and server camp,
> where it is quite popular) is not due to its quality. It is due to
> the punishments a vendor would endure should it dare to cross swords
> with Microsoft.
Mostly it's the enormous Windows inertia: years of dominance at home and
work, ongoing marketing which MS excels at, tens of millions of users,
untold apps and systems built around Windows, games, incredible hardware
support, etc.
Also problematic is the fractured, freewheeling nature of the OSS world.
The 350+ distros. The inconsistent app universe. The poor documentation.
The still-spotty hardware support. The reputation of Linux as difficult.
And Rex Ballard and 7.
> Hell, Lindows had to change its name! Long live Mike Rowe!
Clear trademark infringements (or at best, cheesy attempts to capitalize on
MS' name and reputation).
My new nym is Lin-o-nut. How do you like it?
Linonut
> Linonut wrote:
>>
>> Why do I need to clarify this? I'm talking about a Windows clone, not
>> something that aspires to be enough like Windows to satisfy the
>> masses.
>
> See http://www.reactos.org/en/index.html
Not even as far along as wine, is my guess.
> And an MSOffice clone is at least as valuable as a Windows clone, as Office
> is more profitable for MS than is Windows.
It would be valuable, since a lot of Windows usage is due to MS Office.
The trouble is that Office formats are partly raw memory dumps. Makes
it a lot harder to emulate, I'd hazard.
> The Windows API is known.
To some extent (a large extent).
But there is no implementation by a non-Microsoft company.
>> That's something that Microsoft got right (sort of) -- providing a
>> standard system that is (normally) simple enough to use.
>
> Yes. Getting that part right was the first step. "Selling it right" was
> the next and maybe more difficult piece: marketing, pricing, licensing, and
> support. MS built a fantastic business around a 'plenty good enough'
> product.
I'd drop the "plenty", at least in the early days of Windows. The best
Windows ever is still problematic.
> There is no chokehold. Every OEM is free to quit selling Windows (subject
> to whatever contracts are in place). And every new hardware OEM company
> (and dozens are started up each year - see the pages of any computer mag) is
> free to sell whatever they want; they all sell Windows.
Not all.
But, what else would they sell? The network effect is still very large.
And Microsoft keeps it that way be abusing standards.
>> Of course not. However, they can offer incentives for them not to, or,
>> equivalently, disincentives for them to do it. They did it with DOS,
>> they still do it with Windows. It's marketing, aided by a monopoly
>> which the government aimed at and missed, and now doesn't care about.
>
> I'm not sure the government should care. Everyone on the planet can choose
> whatever OS they want: to buy, sell, install, develop. The only barrier to
> entry is the resulting quality of the product.
>
> Now if you start whining that BestBuy and Office Depot won't sell Linux
> systems, I'll remind you that has nothing at all to do with MS.
I don't know about Best Buy, but Office Depot apparently won't even sell
non-Windows-compatible products. Why?
>> And tell me, dear DFS, about the vendors that have not agreed to this
>> arrangment? Emperor Linux? Or the mass of server vendors?
>
> What about them, guy? They don't pay MS one red cent.
Exactly.
>> I would wonder how DELL separates the two domains.
>
> Dell sells/pre-installs whatever they want. Windows, Linux, FreeDOS or (I
> believe) systems with no OS.
True.
> Mostly it's the enormous Windows inertia: years of dominance at home and
> work, ongoing marketing which MS excels at, tens of millions of users,
> untold apps and systems built around Windows, games, incredible hardware
> support, etc.
To some extent, I agree. I wouldn't call the hardware support
incredible, though, just adequate, and with no real help from Microsoft
(I believe.)
> Also problematic is the fractured, freewheeling nature of the OSS world.
> The 350+ distros. The inconsistent app universe. The poor documentation.
> The still-spotty hardware support. The reputation of Linux as difficult.
You lost me after the first sentence. And most of the rest applies
fairly strongly to the Microsoft world.
> And Rex Ballard and 7.
Grin!
>> Hell, Lindows had to change its name! Long live Mike Rowe!
>
> Clear trademark infringements (or at best, cheesy attempts to capitalize on
> MS' name and reputation).
>
> My new nym is Lin-o-nut. How do you like it?
I'd prefer you change it to Loinonut. Mmmmm -- loins.
--
Intel: where Quality is job number 0.9998782345!
Mark Kent
Linonut <lin...@bone.com> espoused:
Indeed. You can do things from anywhere if you're fortunate enough to
be using linux. No need to be personally present. Huge savings in cost
and time, and it also means that people living in remote places can get
quality support, whereas at the moment, they surely can't.
--
| Mark Kent -- mark at ellandroad dot demon dot co dot uk |
Although golf was originally restricted to wealthy, overweight Protestants,
today it's open to anybody who owns hideous clothing.
-- Dave Barry
mark...@digiverse.net
Mark Kent wrote:
> begin oe_protect.scr
> Linonut <lin...@bone.com> espoused:
> > After takin' a swig o' grog, mark...@digiverse.net belched out this bit o' wisdom:
> >
> >>> Sure they can. Linux geeks are everywhere.
> >>
> >> In cities maybe you might find one but here there's no professional who
> >> would come and fix it (he'd have to be fluent with all the latest
> >> releases of all distros too).
> >
> > No, he wouldn't.
> >
> > Zoom zoom.
> >
>
> Indeed. You can do things from anywhere if you're fortunate enough to
> be using linux. No need to be personally present. Huge savings in cost
> and time, and it also means that people living in remote places can get
> quality support, whereas at the moment, they surely can't.
Indeed, remote desktop and assistance is built into windows too and
easily accessible through the GUI.
Noobs still call in a bloke or drop the puter into the shop for sorting
though, extremely difficuly/impossible with Linux . Yet another big
reason why Linux should make the CLI superflous for maintenance.
Pity Linuxers don't seem to have the imagination to come up with a
graphical alternative.....
Linonut
>> Indeed. You can do things from anywhere if you're fortunate enough to
>> be using linux. No need to be personally present. Huge savings in cost
>> and time, and it also means that people living in remote places can get
>> quality support, whereas at the moment, they surely can't.
>
> Indeed, remote desktop and assistance is built into windows too and
> easily accessible through the GUI.
> Noobs still call in a bloke or drop the puter into the shop for sorting
> though, extremely difficuly/impossible with Linux . Yet another big
> reason why Linux should make the CLI superflous for maintenance.
> Pity Linuxers don't seem to have the imagination to come up with a
> graphical alternative.....
You... have... got... to... be... kidding... me.
You're too ignorant to argue with. Sayonara.
--
"Take her in for regrooving." -- The Firesign Theatre
Peter Köhlmann
> Well Remote Desktop IS easier in Windows than Linux.
> Once the Linux system is setup however, they are the same.
Certainly.
Especially in the win-Home version, right, flatfish?
Idiot
--
Microsoft's Guide To System Design:
Let it get in YOUR way. The problem for your problem.
mark...@digiverse.net
Linonut wrote:
> After takin' a swig o' grog, mark...@digiverse.net belched out this bit o' wisdom:
>
> >> Indeed. You can do things from anywhere if you're fortunate enough to
> >> be using linux. No need to be personally present. Huge savings in cost
> >> and time, and it also means that people living in remote places can get
> >> quality support, whereas at the moment, they surely can't.
> >
> > Indeed, remote desktop and assistance is built into windows too and
> > easily accessible through the GUI.
> > Noobs still call in a bloke or drop the puter into the shop for sorting
> > though, extremely difficuly/impossible with Linux . Yet another big
> > reason why Linux should make the CLI superflous for maintenance.
> > Pity Linuxers don't seem to have the imagination to come up with a
> > graphical alternative.....
>
> You... have... got... to... be... kidding... me.
Not at all, I'ts clearly so far beyond yours to even dare think about
considering it.
>
> You're too ignorant to argue with. Sayonara.
Much easier to just swim behind the rock in your little fishtank.
Mark Kent
mark...@digiverse.net <mark...@digiverse.net> espoused:
>
> Mark Kent wrote:
>> begin oe_protect.scr
>> Linonut <lin...@bone.com> espoused:
>> > After takin' a swig o' grog, mark...@digiverse.net belched out this bit o' wisdom:
>> >
>> >>> Sure they can. Linux geeks are everywhere.
>> >>
>> >> In cities maybe you might find one but here there's no professional who
>> >> would come and fix it (he'd have to be fluent with all the latest
>> >> releases of all distros too).
>> >
>> > No, he wouldn't.
>> >
>> > Zoom zoom.
>> >
>>
>> Indeed. You can do things from anywhere if you're fortunate enough to
>> be using linux. No need to be personally present. Huge savings in cost
>> and time, and it also means that people living in remote places can get
>> quality support, whereas at the moment, they surely can't.
>
> Indeed, remote desktop and assistance is built into windows too and
> easily accessible through the GUI.
Doesn't work with standard tools, though, does it? Also, GUI bandwidth
requirements are horrible, so it's not really practical for remote
management. Also, as Windows typically needs a reboot for most work,
any sane admin wouldn't risk doing it remotely, which is probably why
the remote tools are so poor.
Of course, if you're fortunate enough to be using linux, you can do more
or less everything remotely (excepting kernel patching/replacement,
which /can/ be done remotely, but is a risk).
So, for those people living in remote places, particularly those where
bandwidth is expensive, huge savings in cost are possible if they're
lucky enough to be using linux.
Linonut
You just need to buy some more client-access licenses, Peter! <grin>
Apparently flatfish didn't get my answer to zoomboy ("markzoom", no fact
too firm to zoom past).
--
"No! There are no significant bugs in our released software that any
significant number of users want fixed." -- Bill Gates, FOCUS interview
http://www.cantrip.org/nobugs.html
Peter Köhlmann
> After takin' a swig o' grog, Peter Köhlmann belched out this bit o'
> wisdom:
>
>> flatfish+++ wrote:
>>
>>> On Mon, 11 Sep 2006 09:34:04 -0500, Linonut wrote:
>>>
>>>>> reason why Linux should make the CLI superflous for maintenance.
>>>>> Pity Linuxers don't seem to have the imagination to come up with a
>>>>> graphical alternative.....
>>>>
>>>> You... have... got... to... be... kidding... me.
>>>> You're too ignorant to argue with. Sayonara.
>>>
>>> Well Remote Desktop IS easier in Windows than Linux.
>>> Once the Linux system is setup however, they are the same.
>>
>> Certainly.
>> Especially in the win-Home version, right, flatfish?
>>
>> Idiot
>
> You just need to buy some more client-access licenses, Peter! <grin>
>
Does not help at all with XP home
Additionally, even if you have all the CALs you could need, Remote Desktop
is a far cry from remote X. It is not even close
> Apparently flatfish didn't get my answer to zoomboy ("markzoom", no fact
> too firm to zoom past).
>
Flatfish doesn't get a great many things
Now he is trying to annoy as many people as possible in the suse-groups with
his inane trollings, and he crossposts like mad into other linux groups as
well (naturally including Kadaitcha Toddlers home group as well)
--
What happens if a big asteroid hits Earth? Judging from realistic
simulations involving a sledge hammer and a common laboratory frog,
we can assume it will be pretty bad. --- Dave Barry
mark...@digiverse.net
And all pretty irrelevant to the noob who doesn't use it at all.
Show me a noob forum where the guys say "enable remote desktop and I'll
fix your problem".
The Ghost In The Machine
<mark...@digiverse.net>
wrote
on 11 Sep 2006 07:57:30 -0700
<1157986650.7...@i3g2000cwc.googlegroups.com>:
>
> Linonut wrote:
>> After takin' a swig o' grog, mark...@digiverse.net belched out this bit o' wisdom:
>>
>> >> Indeed. You can do things from anywhere if you're fortunate enough to
>> >> be using linux. No need to be personally present. Huge savings in cost
>> >> and time, and it also means that people living in remote places can get
>> >> quality support, whereas at the moment, they surely can't.
>> >
>> > Indeed, remote desktop and assistance is built into windows too and
>> > easily accessible through the GUI.
>> > Noobs still call in a bloke or drop the puter into the shop for sorting
>> > though, extremely difficuly/impossible with Linux . Yet another big
>> > reason why Linux should make the CLI superflous for maintenance.
>> > Pity Linuxers don't seem to have the imagination to come up with a
>> > graphical alternative.....
>>
>> You... have... got... to... be... kidding... me.
>
> Not at all, I'ts clearly so far beyond yours to even dare think about
> considering it.
I'm assuming Remote Desktop also has remote audio; that
is an advantage over Linux and Remote X. Also, Remote
Desktop uses WINS, whereas Linux merely uses DNS.
FWIW, which isn't all that much.
[rest snipped]
--
#191, ewi...@earthlink.net
Windows Vista. Because it's time to refresh your hardware. Trust us.
tha...@tux.glaci.remove-this.com
>
> I'm assuming Remote Desktop also has remote audio; that
> is an advantage over Linux and Remote X. Also, Remote
> Desktop uses WINS, whereas Linux merely uses DNS.
While remote audio is not an inherent part of the X protocol, I seem to
recall that it is an standard part of the popular window managers that
ride on top of it. I know that that some sort of sound server is turned
on by default on my main Linux workstation... though the name or acronym
for it escapes my memory at the moment.
Thad
The Ghost In The Machine
<tha...@tux.glaci.remove-this.com>
wrote
on Mon, 11 Sep 2006 20:30:19 +0000 (UTC)
<ee4h0r$dub$1...@tux.glaci.com>:
I'd say transparent audio's a pretty piss-poor reason to
stay on Windows, if that's the only thing Remote Desktop
has going for it. :-) Not sure why the window managers
would have this protocol (as opposed to something else)
but I'd frankly have to research the matter.
Mark Kent
The Ghost In The Machine <ew...@sirius.tg00suus7038.net> espoused:
Remote audio's been possible and implemented on linux for years. It's
called NAS. Even some cli tools come with NAS output capabilities,
along with the big do-it-all players like mplayer (the real one, not the
windows one).
--
| Mark Kent -- mark at ellandroad dot demon dot co dot uk |
"... freedom ... is a worship word..."
"It is our worship word too."
-- Cloud William and Kirk, "The Omega Glory", stardate unknown