Not sure what to make of the "new" Win11

[Joel]

It's not different in any way I notice.

--
Joel Crump

[DFS]

On 9/20/2022 6:30 PM, Joel wrote:

> It's not different in any way I notice.

Reasons to upgrade to Win11
https://www.pcmag.com/news/reasons-to-upgrade-to-windows-11-now


Reasons not to upgrade to Win11
https://www.pcmag.com/news/10-reasons-not-to-upgrade-to-windows-11

[Joel]

That'd refer to upgrading from Win10 - I was talking about going from
Win11 21H2 to 22H2.

--
Joel Crump

[DFS]

https://pureinfotech.com/windows-11-22h2-new-features/

Looks like a bunch of visual tweaks.

I'd rather they add development/tools/utilities to all consumer
versions: at least python and Visual Studio Code and 7zip and SQLite
(Win10 comes with SQLite but it's for internal Windows use). You can
get all that stuff free and easy, but if it's already there people will
be more likely to try it and enjoy it.

[Joel]

DFS <nos...@dfs.com> wrote:

>> [...] going from

>> Win11 21H2 to 22H2.
>
>https://pureinfotech.com/windows-11-22h2-new-features/

Thanks! I just used one of the things they mention in that article:

https://i.imgur.com/2ziWJuF.png

>Looks like a bunch of visual tweaks.
>
>I'd rather they add development/tools/utilities to all consumer
>versions: at least python and Visual Studio Code and 7zip and SQLite
>(Win10 comes with SQLite but it's for internal Windows use). You can
>get all that stuff free and easy, but if it's already there people will
>be more likely to try it and enjoy it.

Sounds like an idea, I dunno. Maybe send them a suggestion.

--
Joel Crump

[Joel]

DFS <nos...@dfs.com> wrote:

>https://pureinfotech.com/windows-11-22h2-new-features/


Another thing I just noticed:

https://i.imgur.com/zbZjjfz.png

Pretty cool to have quick access to settings, there.

--
Joel Crump

[rbowman]

On 09/20/2022 08:08 PM, DFS wrote:
> On 9/20/2022 9:23 PM, Joel wrote:
>> DFS <nos...@dfs.com> wrote:
>>
>>>> It's not different in any way I notice.
>>>
>>> Reasons to upgrade to Win11
>>> https://www.pcmag.com/news/reasons-to-upgrade-to-windows-11-now
>>>
>>>
>>> Reasons not to upgrade to Win11
>>> https://www.pcmag.com/news/10-reasons-not-to-upgrade-to-windows-11
>>
>>
>> That'd refer to upgrading from Win10 - I was talking about going from
>> Win11 21H2 to 22H2.
>
>
> https://pureinfotech.com/windows-11-22h2-new-features/
>
> Looks like a bunch of visual tweaks.

Pretty much. I running the insiders preview so what I see may no
necessarily make it into the consumer version but there's nothing
drastic. There is a button, 'All Apps' I think on the start menu that
gets you more or less to the traditional list. The task bar stuff is
easy enough to move to the left.

> I'd rather they add development/tools/utilities to all consumer
> versions: at least python and Visual Studio Code and 7zip and SQLite
> (Win10 comes with SQLite but it's for internal Windows use). You can
> get all that stuff free and easy, but if it's already there people will
> be more likely to try it and enjoy it.

Even most default Linux distros are light on the developer packages.
Even if you the app you don't get the xxxxx_dev headers, libs, and so
forth.

[Marco Moock]

Am Dienstag, 20. September 2022, um 18:30:28 Uhr schrieb Joel:

> It's not different in any way I notice.

It is worse than Windows 10, more bad things like the mandatory MS
account (IIRC it still exists a way to avoid this).

[chrisv]

Marco Moock wrote:

> Joel wrote:
>>
>> It's not different in any way I notice.
>
>It is worse than Windows 10, more bad things like the mandatory MS
>account (IIRC it still exists a way to avoid this).

Even with Pro, it's hard (but not impossible) to get around? Harder
than 10, that is?

--
"When you install Windows you agree to their data collection policies.
There's no spying whatsoever." - some dumb fsck

[rbowman]

I set up a new box with 11 Pro last night. You click the box with for
School or Business account, skip the log in to MS, and create a local
user/password.

There are a few messages about not being able to set up One Drive etc.

No big deal. I'll burn a thumb drive with the OpenSUSE Leaf iso today
and load the real OS.

The box in question is a $380 Beelink mini. The 11 Pro is clean with no
added garbage. For that price and the China origin I doubt the 11 Pro
license bears close inspection but it works.

[chrisv]

rbowman wrote:

> Marco Moock wrote:
>>
>> It is worse than Windows 10, more bad things like the mandatory MS
>> account (IIRC it still exists a way to avoid this).
>
>I set up a new box with 11 Pro last night. You click the box with for
>School or Business account, skip the log in to MS, and create a local
>user/password.
>
>There are a few messages about not being able to set up One Drive etc.
>
>No big deal.

That's the same way the Win10 Pro installation worked, which is
acceptable. Too bad for the "Home" users, though...

--
“The point is that Linux does everything as counterintuitively as
possible.” - “Slimer”

[Joel]

chrisv <chr...@nospam.invalid> wrote:
>rbowman wrote:
>> Marco Moock wrote:
>>>
>>> It is worse than Windows 10, more bad things like the mandatory MS
>>> account (IIRC it still exists a way to avoid this).
>>
>>I set up a new box with 11 Pro last night. You click the box with for
>>School or Business account, skip the log in to MS, and create a local
>>user/password.
>>
>>There are a few messages about not being able to set up One Drive etc.
>>
>>No big deal.
>
>That's the same way the Win10 Pro installation worked, which is
>acceptable. Too bad for the "Home" users, though...

I actually *want* to have my Windows login be linked to my Microsoft
account, it enables certain things. I put my Hotmail address into the
Win10 installer, from the beginning, after assembling the box.

--
Joel Crump

[Eduardo Fahqtardo]

On 9/20/2022 3:30 PM, Joel wrote:
> It's not different in any way I notice.

This is a Linux newsgroup you blithering wankmaggot.

[Joel]

Eduardo Fahqtardo <eddi...@mail.net> wrote:

>> It's not different in any way I notice.
>
>This is a Linux newsgroup you blithering wankmaggot.

Oh yeah? You wanna beat me up, then, bitch boy?

--
Joel Crump

[Eduardo Fahqtardo]

Learn how to a brain.

[Joel]

Eduardo Fahqtardo <eddi...@mail.net> wrote:

>>> This is a Linux newsgroup you blithering wankmaggot.
>>
>> Oh yeah? You wanna beat me up, then, bitch boy?
>
>Learn how to a brain.

Your headers don't even indicate that you're running Linux, dweeb.

--
Joel Crump

[Dick's DriveIn]

You (ChrisV) replied ( to NeoScotsman ):

> > There are a few messages about not being able to set up One Drive etc.
> > No big deal.
>
> That's the same way the Win10 Pro installation worked, which is acceptable.
> Too bad for the "Home" users, though...

I'm a SelfProclaimed "expert" in Windows 10 Home Edition.
Nothing "calls home" unless&until I allow it.

"Win11_22H2_English_x64.ISO" is worthless crap.
File Explorer isn't even DPI aware, for God's sake.
1988, NeXT was DPI aware.

[Joel]

You are truly a stupid person, Relf.

--
Joel Crump

[RonB]

On 2022-09-21, rbowman <bow...@montana.com> wrote:
>
> I set up a new box with 11 Pro last night. You click the box with for
> School or Business account, skip the log in to MS, and create a local
> user/password.
>
> There are a few messages about not being able to set up One Drive etc.
>
> No big deal. I'll burn a thumb drive with the OpenSUSE Leaf iso today
> and load the real OS.
>
> The box in question is a $380 Beelink mini. The 11 Pro is clean with no
> added garbage. For that price and the China origin I doubt the 11 Pro
> license bears close inspection but it works.

That's a nice looking little computer. Never heard of Beeline before. I'm
typing this message on a Dell Optiplex 3020m (micro). I like the small
footprint and its BIOS has a license for Windows 10 built-in. Windows 10 is
still on it, but I shrunk it to the bare minimum size and only go to it
about every other month to upgrade it. It's too old to upgrade to Windows 11
(which is fine with me). Linux Mint 20.3 Cinnamon is what I actually use on
it.

--
Freedom. Use it or lose it.

[rbowman]

This one will probably wind up straight OpenSUSE. My current desktop was
a Dell with Windows 7. It's dual boot but 7 hasn't seen the light of day
in years.

[DFS]

On 9/21/2022 6:19 PM, Joel wrote:


> I actually *want* to have my Windows login be linked to my Microsoft
> account, it enables certain things. I put my Hotmail address into the
> Win10 installer, from the beginning, after assembling the box.

You're in the minority I bet.

One of the articles I read recently implied all Mac users have to sign
in to an Apple account just to use their computer.

That kind of thing enrages me. I'm sure they don't willy-nilly take
your info, but having to sign in like that feels like an open invitation
for MS to pull data off your computer, or at least track all your
activity.

Makes you feel like you're being assimilated into the Borg (or however
that goes).

[Joel]

It's useful. I simply enter a 4-digit PIN to log in to Windows. It's
easy.

--
Joel Crump

[RonB]

Sorry about changing Beelink into "Beeline." Looks like they've been making
these small computers for a long time. I don't know why I kept Windows 10 --
it's just taking up space. I also emulate Mac Catalina on this computer
(really needs a little more power for that). (I also currently have a Mac
Mini, so I don't feel bad about trying the virtual machine version.) But,
like Windows, it's mostly just taking up space. I wanted to try one MacOS
program, and it works, but not worth using MacOS to get to it. I guess I
just like Linux.

[chrisv]

Joel wrote:

>It's useful.

I'm sure that it is "useful". Many refuse to do it, anyway. It's not
worth it.

A friend of mine (who is a right-winger, so should no better) was
recently boasting about some thing that he signed-up with that gets
him small discounts on all kinds of stuff, from gas to groceries. He
signed-up to let them spy on everything that he buys! No thank you!

--
"Only in the brain of [chrisv] does telemetry == spying." - DumFSck,
lying shamelessly

[Joel]

chrisv <chr...@nospam.invalid> wrote:

>>It's useful.
>
>I'm sure that it is "useful". Many refuse to do it, anyway. It's not
>worth it.

I guess, but I just don't have an issue with it.

>A friend of mine (who is a right-winger, so should no better) was
>recently boasting about some thing that he signed-up with that gets
>him small discounts on all kinds of stuff, from gas to groceries. He
>signed-up to let them spy on everything that he buys! No thank you!

To me, that's not even the problem - it's that I have to do extra
work. McDonald's has that kind of crap, if you "log in" with your
phone, before ordering, it's like, no, I can afford your cheap food,
without this BS.

--
Joel Crump

[Dick_Holder]

On 9/22/2022 5:21 PM, chrisv wrote:
> Joel wrote:
>
>> It's useful.
>
> I'm sure that it is "useful". Many refuse to do it, anyway. It's not
> worth it.
>
> A friend of mine (who is a right-winger, so should no better) was
> recently boasting about some thing that he signed-up with that gets
> him small discounts on all kinds of stuff, from gas to groceries. He
> signed-up to let them spy on everything that he buys! No thank you!
>

Wouldn't want anyone knowing you buy bananas, beans, bread, butter.

I don't think a lot of spying is needed to know people buy food.

I sign in with a MS account.
Let 'em spy, track, follow me in a van.
They'll get bored eventually. ;)

--
M15r6
i7-11800H
16GB RAM
RTX 3060
240 Hz Display

[DFS]

On 9/21/2022 11:15 PM, Dick's DriveIn wrote:


> "Win11_22H2_English_x64.ISO" is worthless crap.
> File Explorer isn't even DPI aware, for God's sake.

You sure?

In Win10, File Explorer is DPI Aware per monitor (v2). Doesn't make
sense they would drop that feature in Win11.

> 1988, NeXT was DPI aware.

I worked at IBM in the late 80s, and walked into a room and there sat a
Next Computer. Very cool at the time.

[Dick's DriveIn]

You (DFS) replied ( to me ):

> > File Explorer isn't even DPI aware, for God's sake.
>
> You sure ?

Yes.

> In Win10, File Explorer is DPI Aware per monitor (v2).

No, File Explorer is an ancient app that that can be magnified;
but, then, you get pixelated text on your ultra high res monitor.

> I worked at IBM in the late 80s

Sounds right, I can see you wearing the suit & tie.

Myself, I walked into ABA(.COM) headquarters, Washington DC,
wearing shorts, a T-shirt & sandals.
One of the secretaries, on an upper floor, freaked out.

[Joel]

"Dick's DriveIn" <Di...@Jeff-Relf.Me> wrote:

>File Explorer is an ancient app that that can be magnified;
>but, then, you get pixelated text on your ultra high res monitor.

And why exactly did you "magnify" it, pray tell? See, this is the
real problem: you fix what isn't broken.

--
Joel Crump

[chrisv]

Dick_Holder wrote:

> chrisv wrote:
>>
>> A friend of mine (who is a right-winger, so should no better) was
>> recently boasting about some thing that he signed-up with that gets
>> him small discounts on all kinds of stuff, from gas to groceries. He
>> signed-up to let them spy on everything that he buys! No thank you!
>>
>Wouldn't want anyone knowing you buy bananas, beans, bread, butter.
>
>I don't think a lot of spying is needed to know people buy food.
>
>I sign in with a MS account.
>Let 'em spy, track, follow me in a van.
>They'll get bored eventually. ;)

You're the kind of person who has different credit cards for all the
stores that you shop at, instead of just one Visa card.

--
'simple deduction indicates your beef must be "when" it's used.' -
"Steve Carroll", snittishly conjuring-up a "beef" with something that
I had said was a "nice feature".

[DFS]

On 9/23/2022 2:34 PM, Dick's DriveIn wrote:
> You (DFS) replied ( to me ):
>>> File Explorer isn't even DPI aware, for God's sake.
>>
>> You sure ?
>
> Yes.
>
>> In Win10, File Explorer is DPI Aware per monitor (v2).
>
> No, File Explorer is an ancient app that that can be magnified;
> but, then, you get pixelated text on your ultra high res monitor.

What do you mean No?

File Explorer in Win10 is DPI-Aware per monitor (v2)

https://imgur.com/a/TznsAfu

>> I worked at IBM in the late 80s
>
> Sounds right, I can see you wearing the suit & tie.

I did, until the early-mid-90s, when most places went business casual.

I liked wearing a suit and tie (white or light blue shirt only at IBM).

> Myself, I walked into ABA(.COM) headquarters, Washington DC,
> wearing shorts, a T-shirt & sandals.
> One of the secretaries, on an upper floor, freaked out.

It was nice of you to dress up to interview for that janitorial job.

[Joel]

DFS <nos...@dfs.com> wrote:
>On 9/23/2022 2:34 PM, Dick's DriveIn wrote:
>> You (DFS) replied ( to me ):
>>

>>> In Win10, File Explorer is DPI Aware per monitor (v2).
>>
>> No, File Explorer is an ancient app that that can be magnified;
>> but, then, you get pixelated text on your ultra high res monitor.
>
>What do you mean No?
>
>File Explorer in Win10 is DPI-Aware per monitor (v2)
>
>https://imgur.com/a/TznsAfu

Huh, yeah, I get the same thing in Win11 with Process Explorer when I
show that (obscure) column. Relf is sniffing too much poop with every
breath he takes.

--
Joel Crump

[Dick_Holder]

On 9/23/2022 3:32 PM, chrisv wrote:
> Dick_Holder wrote:
>
>> chrisv wrote:
>>>
>>> A friend of mine (who is a right-winger, so should no better) was
>>> recently boasting about some thing that he signed-up with that gets
>>> him small discounts on all kinds of stuff, from gas to groceries. He
>>> signed-up to let them spy on everything that he buys! No thank you!
>>>
>> Wouldn't want anyone knowing you buy bananas, beans, bread, butter.
>>
>> I don't think a lot of spying is needed to know people buy food.
>>
>> I sign in with a MS account.
>> Let 'em spy, track, follow me in a van.
>> They'll get bored eventually. ;)
>
> You're the kind of person who has different credit cards for all the
> stores that you shop at, instead of just one Visa card.
>

No, just a Lowes card and Visa card.
For the discount, cash back rewards.

I actually don't grocery shop, my wife does.
I help carry the stuff into the house though.

I despise grocery shopping.

[Dick's DriveIn]

Windows has a setting where you can magnify _ANCIENT_ apps,
including File Explorer... 100% is no magnification;

but, then, you get pixelated text on your ultra high res monitor.

> > I walked into ABA(.COM) headquarters, Washington DC,
> > wearing shorts, a T-shirt & sandals.

> > One of the secretaries, on a (random) upper floor, freaked out.

>
> It was nice of you to dress up to interview for that janitorial job.

My 2019 ABA Agreement: Jeff-Relf.Me/2019.ABA.Agreement.PDF

// For every 16-point rise in IQ, a woman's marital prospects drops 40 %.
// Spritzing mouthwash is a better antacid* than Pepto-Bismol.
// [ *: needed when lowering head below (a full) stomach & in times of stress ]

[Dick's DriveIn]

Thee only way to change the font size File Explorer:
right click desktop -> display settings -> Scale -> 150 %.

When I do this, it messes up _ANCIENT_ dialogues (!!),
there isn't enough room for the larger text.

[DFS]

We had hoped he left his Vittle Vault behind when he moved. Relf, are
you still using that nasty thing even though you have a toilet?

[Dick's DriveIn]

DFS wrote:
> Relf, are you still using that nasty thing even though you have a toilet ?

Yep & there are two toilets in my three person apartment.

My Vittles Vault ( OdorFree chamber pot ) is pure genius;
I no longer put paper towels in it; so it flushes down the toilet.
[ I shit into a paper towel held in place by a soup ladle ]

// Thee only way to change the font size File Explorer:
// right click desktop -> display settings -> Scale -> 150 %.
//
// When I do this, it messes up _ANCIENT_ dialogues (!!),
// there isn't enough room for the larger text.

[DFS]

On 9/24/2022 9:27 AM, Dick's DriveIn wrote:
> DFS wrote:
>> Relf, are you still using that nasty thing even though you have a toilet ?
>
> Yep & there are two toilets in my three person apartment.

wtf? Why don't you use the toilet?

> My Vittles Vault ( OdorFree chamber pot ) is pure genius;
> I no longer put paper towels in it; so it flushes down the toilet.
> [ I shit into a paper towel held in place by a soup ladle ]

Very disgusting. Very mentally ill.

[Shell Prompt]

Not at all. Relf sounds like an RV-er.

(Our last rig, that damned toilet was supposed to be "full-sized
residential" -- no, but "soup ladle" wouldn't be too far off the
mark. It *drew* *blood*, it was so evil. )


--
-$_#!/bin/bash...

[Dick's DriveIn]

You (DFS) replied ( to me ):

> > My Vittles Vault ( OdorFree chamber pot ) is pure genius;
> > I no longer put paper towels in it; so it flushes down the toilet.
> > [ I shit into a paper towel held in place by a soup ladle ]
>
> Very disgusting. Very mentally ill.

To the contrary, lying flat, La-Z-Boy style,
relaxing, sans ego, in Nirvana, is living the dream.

[Dick's DriveIn]

Someone replied ( to DFS ):

> > > My Vittles Vault ( OdorFree chamber pot ) is pure genius;
> > > I no longer put paper towels in it; so it flushes down the toilet.
> > > [ I shit into a paper towel held in place by a soup ladle ]
> >
> > Very disgusting. Very mentally ill.
>
> Not at all. Relf sounds like an RV-er.

♪ You may say I'm an RV-er but I'm not the only one ♪

[DFS]

On 9/23/2022 5:21 PM, Dick_Holder wrote:


> I despise grocery shopping.

I LOVE grocery shopping at Costco when I'm hungry. Toss in the big bags
of FSTG chips, big watermelons, 12pks of croissants, 4pks of pepperoni
pizza, 6lbs of broccoli, 18pks of protein drinks, 6pk of sardines, 12pk
of paper towels, whole rotisserie chickens, 90ct trash bags, etc.

Then it all goes into my database. I've made 113 Costco trips since the
beginning of 2018, and spent $8770.

[Joel]

DFS <nos...@dfs.com> wrote:

>I've made 113 Costco trips since the
>beginning of 2018, and spent $8770.

The main thing I get there is Diet Pepsi, I can fit six 36 packs in
the cart, equivalent to 18 12 packs, all in one visit. I drink so
much of the stuff that it's the only way to fly.

--
Joel Crump

[DFS]

For Relfish values of 'the dream'.

But sans ego? You have as healthy an ego as anyone else here. You once
posted "I'm the best c coder here." in the Subject line.

My dream would be playing in and winning matches for the American team
in the President's Cup or Ryder Cup (golf).

Or writing my own little version of SQLite (dbms).

Unfortunately, both are beyond my abilities.

[Relf]

You (DFS) replied ( to me ):

> > To the contrary, lying flat, La-Z-Boy style,
> > relaxing, sans ego, in Nirvana, is living the dream.
>

> But sans ego? You have as healthy an ego as anyone else here.
> You once posted "I'm the best c coder here." in the Subject line.

I never said anyone shared my opinion.
I have no fans, just detractors.

> My dream would be playing in and winning matches for
> the American team in the President's Cup or Ryder Cup (golf).

I have achieved my dream, & it feels good.

[chrisv]

Relf wrote:

> DumFSck wrote:
>>
>> My dream would be playing in and winning matches for
>> the American team in the President's Cup or Ryder Cup (golf).

DumFSck should dream about something reasonably obtainable, like being
a decent person, instead of a POS.

> I have achieved my dream, & it feels good.

When I'm asked about how I'm doing, I often reply "It could be worse."
And it could be a _lot_ worse.

--
"ABC News last night led with stories about the black morons. Now
that they've dispersed, New Orleans is safe (only 1 murder in 3
months), but the cities that took their stinking, thieving, lazy,
criminal asses in are experiencing crime waves. It was truly
disturbing to see the fat she-beasts with 6 kids living in a nice
FEMA-paid-for hotel (that they're about to be evicted from - finally!)
talking about 'dey needs a place to stay wif dere chirren'" -
DumFSck

[rbowman]

On 9/26/22 09:43, DFS wrote:
>
> Or writing my own little version of SQLite (dbms).

Please don't. A programmer who left for greener pastures a long time ago
gifted us with 'sdb'. I'm not sure if that's supposed to be Simple
Database or Shitty Database. To frost the cake it is in C++, uses the
Microsoft unique classes, and exhibits the worst of Hungarian notation
and other M$ stylistic quirks.

At one time writing editors was the pastime of programmers with too much
time on their hands. In the case of emacs, way, way to much time.

The are plenty of fine FOSS database schemes. The world doesn't need
another.

[DFS]

On 9/26/2022 9:48 PM, rbowman wrote:
> On 9/26/22 09:43, DFS wrote:
>>
>> Or writing my own little version of SQLite (dbms).
>
> Please don't. A programmer who left for greener pastures a long time ago
> gifted us with 'sdb'. I'm not sure if that's supposed to be Simple
> Database or Shitty Database. To frost the cake it is in C++, uses the
> Microsoft unique classes, and exhibits the worst of Hungarian notation
> and other M$ stylistic quirks.

https://fileinfo.com/extension/sbd

Was his db released to the public?

> At one time writing editors was the pastime of programmers with too much
> time on their hands. In the case of emacs, way, way to much time.
>
> The are plenty of fine FOSS database schemes. The world doesn't need
> another.

SQLite being the best of the small ones, in my estimation, because it's
file-based and extremely easy to install and use. And the documentation
is very good. And it's free. And it's extremely stable. And has very
large capacities.

Popularity ranking sites:
db-engines.com
https://pypl.github.io/DB.html

[rbowman]

On 9/27/22 08:30, DFS wrote:
> On 9/26/2022 9:48 PM, rbowman wrote:
>> On 9/26/22 09:43, DFS wrote:
>>>
>>> Or writing my own little version of SQLite (dbms).
>>
>> Please don't. A programmer who left for greener pastures a long time
>> ago gifted us with 'sdb'. I'm not sure if that's supposed to be Simple
>> Database or Shitty Database. To frost the cake it is in C++, uses the
>> Microsoft unique classes, and exhibits the worst of Hungarian notation
>> and other M$ stylistic quirks.
>
> https://fileinfo.com/extension/sbd
>
> Was his db released to the public?

No, and the public can be thankful. It smells a bit like dBase III
without a decent interface.

> SQLite being the best of the small ones, in my estimation, because it's
> file-based and extremely easy to install and use.  And the documentation
> is very good.  And it's free.  And it's extremely stable.  And has very
> large capacities.

I've heard good things about it and I think one of our programmers is
going to use it. He had been using the SQL Express LocalDb for user/role
configurations. While SQL Express is available on Linux LocalDb isn't.

> Popularity ranking sites:
> db-engines.com
> https://pypl.github.io/DB.html

I don't think much by ranking by Google searches. Obviously Oracle is
heavily weighted by searches starting with 'how do I do X with this
overpriced piece of crap?' My impression is Oracle is chiefly supported
by our tax dollars at work.

I've been working with Postgres lately. The price is right. If you look
at AWS SQL Server instances be prepared to send them your left nut.
That's not Amazon -- that's M$ per core licensing and the number of
processors and RAM you need. Pricing is very complex so don't take the
numbers literally but a base bones Server 2019 might run you 32 cents
and hour. Add SQL Server and it's more like 2 dollars an hour.

A bare bones Linux instance is more like 11 cents an hour.

I haven't looked at other cloud providers but I assume the proportions
are similar. The cloud won't do much for desktop Linux but it makes
Linux servers very attractive.

[DFS]

Purchase 216 at a time? Yikes.

Which schizo medication works best with Diet Pepsi?

[Joel]

DFS <nos...@dfs.com> wrote:

>>> I've made 113 Costco trips since the
>>> beginning of 2018, and spent $8770.
>>
>> The main thing I get there is Diet Pepsi, I can fit six 36 packs in
>> the cart, equivalent to 18 12 packs, all in one visit. I drink so
>> much of the stuff that it's the only way to fly.
>
>Purchase 216 at a time? Yikes.

It is kind of ridiculous, yeah, but it's just that I drink *a lot* of
them, daily, so it gets annoying going back for more.

>Which schizo medication works best with Diet Pepsi?

I take Zyprexa, but there are others - but I did find that Geodon
lessens the MDMA effect, including that of Pepsi.

--
Joel Crump

[rbowman]

It used to go well with ephedrine but the FDA took all the fun out of that.

[rbowman]

On 9/27/22 17:51, Joel wrote:
> DFS <nos...@dfs.com> wrote:
>
>>>> I've made 113 Costco trips since the
>>>> beginning of 2018, and spent $8770.
>>>
>>> The main thing I get there is Diet Pepsi, I can fit six 36 packs in
>>> the cart, equivalent to 18 12 packs, all in one visit. I drink so
>>> much of the stuff that it's the only way to fly.
>>
>> Purchase 216 at a time? Yikes.
>
>
> It is kind of ridiculous, yeah, but it's just that I drink *a lot* of
> them, daily, so it gets annoying going back for more.
>

I think zero sugar Monster is on sale this month. I wonder how many
cases of that I can stuff in the cart?

[Joel]

rbowman <bow...@montana.com> wrote:

>I think zero sugar Monster is on sale this month. I wonder how many
>cases of that I can stuff in the cart?

Well, that's a good question, but in any event, it's good to take
advantage of the lower price, and not have to go back for more for a
while.

--
Joel Crump

[DFS]

On 9/26/2022 12:28 PM, Relf wrote:
> You (DFS) replied ( to me ):
>>> To the contrary, lying flat, La-Z-Boy style,
>>> relaxing, sans ego, in Nirvana, is living the dream.
>>
>> But sans ego? You have as healthy an ego as anyone else here.
>> You once posted "I'm the best c coder here." in the Subject line.
>
> I never said anyone shared my opinion.
> I have no fans, just detractors.

Once you revealed that you shit in a ladle and transfer it to a [sealed]
bucket you keep in your living space... can you really blame anyone?


Ezekiel used to like you:

"RELF - you're a strange cat but I know that I'd enjoy having a beer
with you."


And you're very annoying online: mess with References, constant Subject
changes and crossposting and a fair amt of off-topic.

And the code? My God!

But... it would be a mighty boring world without all kinds. So keep
being you, and keep indoor shit buckets alive at all costs...

>> My dream would be playing in and winning matches for
>> the American team in the President's Cup or Ryder Cup (golf).
>
> I have achieved my dream, & it feels good.

Lying down was your dream?

[Relf]

You (DFS) replied ( to me ):

> > Lying flat, La-Z-Boy style, relaxing, sans ego, in Nirvana,
> > is living the dream.
>
> Lying down was your dream ?

Yes, millions of Americans enjoy _Relaxing_ like that.
Millions enjoy RV's & septic tanks too.

Like me, Zen Buddhists are masters of relaxation !

Internet & air conditioning are _Vital_, I should add.
Florida: Customers Tracked: 11,026,567; Customers Out: 2,633,253
PowerOutage.US/Area/State/Florida

> it'd be a mighty boring world without all kinds.

True that, I celebrate our differences.

> " RELF - you're a strange cat but I know that

> I'd enjoy having a beer with you. " -- Ezekiel

Online, few understand me; face-to-face, I fair much better.
The secret to navigating online comments is to know:

Everyone is sarcastic.

Hard to be pro peers, easier to be AntiMom.
Hard to be pro communism, easier to be AntiCapitalism.
Hard to be pro Russia, easier to be AntiWest.

[DFS]

On 9/29/2022 3:34 PM, Relf wrote:
> You (DFS) replied ( to me ):

> Online, few understand me; face-to-face, I fair much better.

fare

[DFS]

On 9/27/2022 6:34 PM, rbowman wrote:
> On 9/27/22 08:30, DFS wrote:
>> On 9/26/2022 9:48 PM, rbowman wrote:
>>> On 9/26/22 09:43, DFS wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Or writing my own little version of SQLite (dbms).
>>>
>>> Please don't. A programmer who left for greener pastures a long time
>>> ago gifted us with 'sdb'. I'm not sure if that's supposed to be
>>> Simple Database or Shitty Database. To frost the cake it is in C++,
>>> uses the Microsoft unique classes, and exhibits the worst of
>>> Hungarian notation and other M$ stylistic quirks.
>>
>> https://fileinfo.com/extension/sbd
>>
>> Was his db released to the public?
>
> No, and the public can be thankful. It smells a bit like dBase III
> without a decent interface.
>
>> SQLite being the best of the small ones, in my estimation, because
>> it's file-based and extremely easy to install and use.  And the
>> documentation is very good.  And it's free.  And it's extremely
>> stable.  And has very large capacities.
>
> I've heard good things about it and I think one of our programmers is
> going to use it. He had been using the SQL Express LocalDb for user/role
> configurations. While SQL Express is available on Linux LocalDb isn't.

SQLiteStudio or HeidiSQL (more advanced and featureful) are nice tools
for working with SQLite dbs.

>> Popularity ranking sites:
>> db-engines.com
>> https://pypl.github.io/DB.html
>
> I don't think much by ranking by Google searches. Obviously Oracle is
> heavily weighted by searches starting with 'how do I do X with this
> overpriced piece of crap?'  My impression is Oracle is chiefly supported
> by our tax dollars at work.

Oracle is definitely overpriced, and their salespeople and client mgrs
are apparently aggressive in finding ways to squeeze money from their
customers. I worked with Oracle a fair amt at work off and on, and it's
the dbms I would choose if money were no object.


Nice comparo grid here
https://www.g2.com/categories/relational-databases#grid

You can click on the entries and read reviews of each.

> I've been working with Postgres lately. The price is right.

Last fall, in addition to SQLite, I installed Postgres, MariaDB,
FireBird, Oracle Express and DB2 Express.

In each one I created clones of my SQLite master Usenet database. Then
I installed python connector utilities:

conn = psycopg2.connect(user='DFS', password='**', dbname='USENET')
conn = cx_Oracle.connect(user="DFS",password="**",",dsn="XE")
etc

Then I wrote bulk insert code to copy the data from SQLite to each of them.


# Table Sort Column BulkInsertFactor
#load these tables in any order
tbls = []
tbls += [ "charset", "CHARSETID", 3 ]
tbls += [ "messageid", "MSGID", 5000 ]
tbls += [ "months", "MONTH_NBR", 2 ]
tbls += [ "nntp_group", "GROUPID", 100 ]
tbls += [ "nntp_server", "SERVERID", 1 ]
tbls += [ "subject", "SUBJECTID", 1000 ]
tbls += [ "useragent", "USERAGENTID", 500 ]

#load these tables in this order
tbls += [ "postername", "POSTERNAMEID", 10 ]
tbls += [ "posternamegroup", "POSTERNAMEID", 100 ]
tbls += [ "poster", "POSTERID", 1000 ]
tbls += [ "post", "POSTID", 5000 ]

#load these tables in any order
tbls += [ "postbody", "POSTID", 100 ]
tbls += [ "postdate", "POSTID", 1000 ]
tbls += [ "newsgroups", "POSTID", 5000 ]
tbls += [ "reference", "POSTID", 10000 ]


for i in range(0,len(tbls)-1,3):
tblname = tbls[i].upper()
tblsort = tbls[i+1]
bulkins = tbls[i+2]
copydata(dbtype, tblname, tblsort, bulkins, psym)

print("%.2f secs to post %d rows " % (time.perf_counter() - startMaster,
totrows))


Played around with the 'bulk insert factor' to squeeze out the best data
load performance, which overall was Oracle - on an old PC I got 200K
inserts per second on some tables. Incredible.

> If you look
> at AWS SQL Server instances be prepared to send them your left nut.
> That's not Amazon -- that's M$ per core licensing and the number of
> processors and RAM you need.  Pricing is very complex so don't take the
> numbers literally but a base bones Server 2019 might run you 32 cents
> and hour. Add SQL Server and it's more like 2 dollars an hour.

Cheaper than licenses and DBAs, probably.

> A bare bones Linux instance is more like 11 cents an hour.

Yeah, you don't have to pay those broke FOSS devs who gave all their
code away to GuhNoo.

> I haven't looked at other cloud providers but I assume the proportions
> are similar. The cloud won't do much for desktop Linux but it makes
> Linux servers very attractive.

Linux works best as a dumb host for files and databases.

[rbowman]

On 10/2/22 08:16, DFS wrote:
> Oracle is definitely overpriced, and their salespeople and client mgrs
> are apparently aggressive in finding ways to squeeze money from their
> customers.  I worked with Oracle a fair amt at work off and on, and it's
> the dbms I would choose if money were no object.

We added Oracle capability to the existing code to qualify for a DOI
project years ago. For some strange reason Lockheed Martin won the
contract so it never went into production. The DOI has deep pockets. As
many of the reviews said it's expensive for smaller projects.

The original choice of DB2 was decades ago when the product was running
under AIX on RS6000 iron. I added SQL Server capability about 10 years
ago as the sites migrated to Windows.

> Nice comparo grid here
> https://www.g2.com/categories/relational-databases#grid
>
> You can click on the entries and read reviews of each.

Gods, they reproduce like the aptly named CockroachDB... I was
surprised to see SQL Server leading the pack although it has really
improved.

AWS RDS is misleading. The actual engine can be MSSQL, Postgres, Oracle,
MySql, or MariaDB. Amazon manages it, including backups, but it is a
separate instance that you don't control. You may have one or more
instances for your business logic, and the actual data in EBS, but the
RDBMS is a black box. You pay by the hour, EBS is priced as GB/month,
and the cost of the database engine instance reflects the licensing
costs of whichever product you choose.

AWS Aurora is even more interesting. There isn't a dedicated server
instance so they refer to it as serverless. For each transaction a
server someplace in the cloud fires up and processes your transaction.
That one you pay for by the second.

I wouldn't say AWS pricing is opaque but you can really screw yourself
if you can't determine your requirements.

> Played around with the 'bulk insert factor' to squeeze out the best data
> load performance, which overall was Oracle - on an old PC I got 200K
> inserts per second on some tables.  Incredible.

And the rest of the pack?

>> If you look at AWS SQL Server instances be prepared to send them your
>> left nut. That's not Amazon -- that's M$ per core licensing and the
>> number of processors and RAM you need.  Pricing is very complex so
>> don't take the numbers literally but a base bones Server 2019 might
>> run you 32 cents and hour. Add SQL Server and it's more like 2 dollars
>> an hour.
>
> Cheaper than licenses and DBAs, probably.

Depends. RDS does away with DBAs. An E2C instance with SQL Server
installed is the same as any other VM. Backup strategies are your
problem as well as any tweaking that's necessary. You are always paying
for the licenses in any case. It's the same as leasing a car or buying
it in a lot of ways.

> Yeah, you don't have to pay those broke FOSS devs who gave all their
> code away to GuhNoo.

Well, sort of... It burns Stallman's ass but a lot of those FOSS devs
are getting a regular paycheck from one of those horrible capitalistic
companies. Red Hat reached $3 billion in annual revenue before IBM
bought them. SUSE was bought by Novell. When Novell started working with
Microsoft Stallman was pissed. Miguel de Icaza parlayed his projects
into a nice MS job. Stallman considers him the spawn of the devil. MySQL
was forked to MariaDB when MySQL was sold to Sun which was bought by
Oracle. MariaDB Corporation Ab was putting together an IPO last spring.
Canonical has 600 employees and has started showing a profit again after
the Unity fiasco.

Debian is still mostly pure but us sponsored by the SPI. The SPI is a
non-profit so it's hard to pin down the cash flow of who is contributing.

> Linux works best as a dumb host for files and databases.

Right.

https://www.tomshardware.com/news/microsoft-released-cbl-mariner-linux-distro

[DFS]

On 10/2/2022 2:56 PM, rbowman wrote:
> On 10/2/22 08:16, DFS wrote:

>> Nice comparo grid here
>> https://www.g2.com/categories/relational-databases#grid
>>
>> You can click on the entries and read reviews of each.
>
> Gods, they reproduce like the aptly named CockroachDB...  I was
> surprised to see SQL Server leading the pack although it has really
> improved.

I just installed 2019 Developer Edition (full version with restricted
license). 2022 version is in preview right now.

I always liked the system admin and reporting tools that were part of
SQL Server.

>> Played around with the 'bulk insert factor' to squeeze out the best
>> data load performance, which overall was Oracle - on an old PC I got
>> 200K inserts per second on some tables.  Incredible.
>
> And the rest of the pack?

I didn't make many notes, but except for Oracle I don't remember any
standing out as ultra-fast or -slow.

Doubt you'll ever need it, but here's the python code I wrote and used.
It can make copying data from source to destination very easy:
https://easyupload.io/ruxdl6