Snit, when you say cola trusts your views on 'pretty much any topic'...

[DFS]

... which topics do you think they don't trust your views on? And why
don't they trust your views on those topics?



Snit: "people in COLA trust my views on pretty much any topic more than
they trust anyone else. I am seen as an "expert" not because I am
but because my *relative* knowledge is so much greater than most
in COLA."

[owl]

LOL! Did that fool actually say that?
Snit, you dumbass! Nobody sees you as an expert on *anything*.
Here's how you are seen: as an annoyingly whiney-voiced, stupid-video-making
mactard spaz, whose whole life revolves around focusing as many usenet
spotlights on himself as possible, while simultaneously evangelizing
for the religion of Pyschobabble and a presidential run for Neil the Grass
Tyson. And you do this with that irritating starbuckspeak, "wow just wow"
and "wait for it."

[Steve Carroll]

On Tuesday, March 24, 2015 at 11:12:29 AM UTC-6, DFS wrote:
> ... which topics do you think they don't trust your views on? And why
> don't they trust your views on those topics?
>

I wouldn't trust his views on the use of BLOBs... and I'm not talking about those things he drops all over the newsgroup ;)

You said you're into databases, right? What's your take on the use of BLOBs? If the data in question needs some kind of special indexing?

[Snit]

On 3/24/15, 11:29 AM, in article bhv9...@rooftop.invalid, "owl"

<o...@rooftop.invalid> wrote:

> DFS <nos...@dfs.com> wrote:
>> ... which topics do you think they don't trust your views on? And why
>> don't they trust your views on those topics?
>
>
>
>> Snit: "people in COLA trust my views on pretty much any topic more than
>> they trust anyone else. I am seen as an "expert" not because I am
>> but because my *relative* knowledge is so much greater than most
>> in COLA."
>
>
> LOL! Did that fool actually say that?
> Snit, you dumbass! Nobody sees you as an expert on *anything*.

At the time the "advocates" and others were trying to catch me in an error.
They were asking me questions on all sorts of things. Or maybe it was some
non-advocates.

Who the hell knows. It was years ago.

Don't remember. Don't care.

> Here's how you are seen: as an annoyingly whiney-voiced, stupid-video-making
> mactard spaz, whose whole life revolves around focusing as many usenet
> spotlights on himself as possible, while simultaneously evangelizing
> for the religion of Pyschobabble and a presidential run for Neil the Grass
> Tyson. And you do this with that irritating starbuckspeak, "wow just wow"
> and "wait for it."

And there you go: demonstrating you see me as better than you so you feel
the need to put me down.



--
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* Mint KDE bugs or Easter eggs? <http://youtu.be/CU-whJQvtfA>
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* OS / Word Processor Comparison: <http://youtu.be/w6Qcl-w7s5c>

[-hh]

owl wrote:

> DFS <nos...@dfs.com> wrote:
> >
> > Snit: "people in COLA trust my views on pretty much any
> > topic more than they trust anyone else.
>

> LOL! Did that fool actually say that?

Because it is true to form: "people" absent any other
qualifiers is vague while trying to imply significance
without actually saying so (a lie through misdirection).

Strictly speaking, all that that statement is actually
committing to that's there's at least one person other
than himself.

Just who this actually is is the mystery and odds are
that it will be an account suspected of being a sockpuppet.


-hh

[DFS]

On 3/24/2015 3:47 PM, Snit wrote:
> On 3/24/15, 11:29 AM, in article bhv9...@rooftop.invalid, "owl"
> <o...@rooftop.invalid> wrote:
>
>> DFS <nos...@dfs.com> wrote:
>>> ... which topics do you think they don't trust your views on? And why
>>> don't they trust your views on those topics?
>>
>>
>>
>>> Snit: "people in COLA trust my views on pretty much any topic more than
>>> they trust anyone else. I am seen as an "expert" not because I am
>>> but because my *relative* knowledge is so much greater than most
>>> in COLA."
>>
>>
>> LOL! Did that fool actually say that?
>> Snit, you dumbass! Nobody sees you as an expert on *anything*.
>
> At the time the "advocates" and others were trying to catch me in an error.
> They were asking me questions on all sorts of things. Or maybe it was some
> non-advocates.
>
> Who the hell knows. It was years ago.

It was 8 months ago.

[DFS]

By coincidence, I know a bit about this. I wrote some Java code back in
'01 to read and write passenger name records (PNRs) generated by airline
reservation systems into BLOB/CLOB (binary large object and character
large object) columns in Oracle. And I used them a few times in my
Access/Oracle systems.

I like having LOB-type columns available so you can keep all your
information in the database, rather than parts in the database and parts
in files/documents residing on the filesystem. The tradeoff is it's
relatively hard to search/retrieve/manipulate/update the data in a LOB
column. And they can task the capacity of your database, depending on
the size of the objects and what kind of db server you're using. If
Oracle, you may want to separate the BLOB tables into their own
fast-growing tablespace.

I don't know much about indexing in LOBs, other than it can create
monstrous indexes, if that's a concern.

So it's one of those art/science things: LOB columns may be the right
choice or they may not.

If it's not a secret: What's your situation? What back-end are you
using? How many and how big and what kind of large objects will you be
storing? Who needs to extract the data? What for? Lots of reads? Lots
of updates?



Oracle has some decent docs on the use of LOBs:
http://docs.oracle.com/cd/B10501_01/appdev.920/a96591/adl01int.htm#117849

indexing LOBs:
http://docs.oracle.com/cd/B19306_01/appdev.102/b14249/adlob_tables.htm#i1012913





My Java code to write binary data to a BLOB column
======================================================================

import javax.swing.*;
import java.io.*;
import java.sql.*;
import oracle.jdbc.driver.*;

public class WriteBlobToDb {
Connection conn;
Statement stmt;
ResultSet rs;
int bufferSize;

public WriteBlobToDb() throws SQLException, ClassNotFoundException
{
//Load driver and make connection
Class.forName("oracle.jdbc.driver.OracleDriver");
conn =
DriverManager.getConnection("jdbc:oracle:thin:@workflow01.corp.da.com:1521:WKFD","DA","DA");
stmt = conn.createStatement();
}

public void sendToDb() {
String pathname, name;
int amount = 0;
OutputStream out = null;
BufferedInputStream in = null;

//Use a JFileChooser to let the user select the file to be
//read and written to the media table
JFileChooser chooser = new JFileChooser("C:\\");
chooser.setDialogTitle("Choose file to write to BLOB field");
int returnVal = chooser.showOpenDialog(null);
if(returnVal == JFileChooser.APPROVE_OPTION) {
pathname = chooser.getSelectedFile().getAbsolutePath();
name = chooser.getSelectedFile().getName();
chooser = null;
} else {
System.out.println("No file selected. Program terminating.");
return;
}

try {
//Since BLOB is written with stream, disable autocommit
conn.setAutoCommit(false);
//insert a row into the BLOB table, use the empty_blob()
//construct for the BLOB field. empty_blob() creates the
//BLOB locator

String OrderID = "BBC-12346";
stmt.executeUpdate("DELETE FROM TT_ORDER_XML WHERE ORDER_ID = '"
+ OrderID + "' ");
System.out.println("Deleted row for Order " + OrderID);

//stmt.executeUpdate("INSERT INTO TX_ORDER_DELIVERY_ITEM VALUES
(1,9)");
//System.out.println("Inserted item for Delivery");

stmt.executeUpdate("INSERT INTO TT_ORDER_XML VALUES (0,'" +
OrderID + "','XOL','retrieve',SYSDATE,'test', '', empty_blob())");
System.out.println("Inserted new row for Order " + OrderID);

rs = stmt.executeQuery("SELECT ORDER_XML_BLOB FROM TT_ORDER_XML
WHERE ORDER_ID = '" + OrderID + "'");
if (rs.next()) {

//Get the BLOB locator
Blob blob = rs.getBlob(1);

//Get the output stream which will be used to send
//data to the table. Use Oracle extension because
//JDBC 2.0 does not support writing data to BLOB
out = ((oracle.sql.BLOB)blob).getBinaryOutputStream();

//Let driver compute buffer size for writing to BLOB
bufferSize = ((oracle.sql.BLOB)blob).getBufferSize();

//Create a buffered stream to read from the file
in = new BufferedInputStream(new FileInputStream(pathname),
bufferSize);

//Create a byte buffer and start reading from the file
byte[] b = new byte[bufferSize];
int count = in.read(b, 0, bufferSize);

//write the bytes using the OutputStream
//loop until all bytes are written to the table
while (count != -1) {
out.write(b, 0, count);
amount += count;
count = in.read(b, 0, bufferSize);
}
System.out.println("Processed " + amount + " bytes. Finished.");

//Close the Input and Output Streams
out.close();
out = null;
in.close();
in = null;

//commit the changes
conn.commit();
}
} catch (Exception e) {
e.printStackTrace();
try { conn.rollback(); } catch (Exception ignored) {}
} finally {
//if an exception occurred, the streams may not have been closed
//so close them here if needed
if (out != null) try { out.close(); } catch (Exception ignored) {}
if (in != null) try { in.close(); } catch (Exception ignored) {}
}
}

public static void main(String[] args) {
try {
WriteBlobToDb w = new WriteBlobToDb();
w.sendToDb();
} catch (Exception e) {
e.printStackTrace();
} finally {
System.exit(0);
}
}
}


==========================================================================

My VB code to read Oracle data from a BLOB column using ODBC table links
in MS Access.

When you create an ODBC link to an Oracle table in MS Access, the Oracle
BLOB column shows up as an OLEObject data type. This code extracts
binary data from that column and writes it to a file. You can store and
write images, executables, whatever you want.



Public Function writeFile(destFileName As String, destFileDesc As
String) As Boolean

On Error GoTo errWriteBLOB

writeFile = False

DoCmd.Hourglass True

'VARS
Dim DestFile As Integer
Dim lngOffset As Long
Dim lngTotalSize As Long
Dim strChunk() As Byte
Dim BlockSize As Long


Set db = CurrentDb()

'CODE FILE
cSQL = "SELECT BLOBDATA "
cSQL = cSQL & "FROM ADMIN_BLOB "
cSQL = cSQL & "WHERE BLOBDESC = '" & destFileDesc & "';"
Set rs = db.OpenRecordset(cSQL)

If rs.RecordCount <> 1 Then
MsgBox "Error retrieving new application. Please contact
Admin.", , sysTitle
rs.Close
Set rs = Nothing
Exit Function
End If

v = SysCmd(acSysCmdInitMeter, "installing...", 3)
v = SysCmd(acSysCmdUpdateMeter, 1)

'WRITE DATA TO FILE
DestFile = FreeFile
lngTotalSize = rs("BLOBDATA").FieldSize

lngOffset = 0
BlockSize = 32

Open destFileName For Binary As DestFile
Do While lngOffset < (lngTotalSize - 1)
strChunk = rs("BLOBDATA").GetChunk(lngOffset, BlockSize)
Put DestFile, , strChunk
lngOffset = lngOffset + BlockSize
Loop
Close DestFile

'CLOSE OBJECT
rs.Close
Set rs = Nothing
v = SysCmd(acSysCmdUpdateMeter, 3)


writeFile = True

exitWriteBLOB:
v = SysCmd(acSysCmdRemoveMeter)
DoCmd.Hourglass False
Exit Function

errWriteBLOB:
writeFile = False
MsgBox "Error " & Err.Number & " occurred when extracting the
software: " & Err.Description, , sysTitle
Resume exitWriteBLOB


End Function

==================================================================================

Feel free to use any of this code.

[Steve Carroll]

On Tuesday, March 24, 2015 at 2:07:34 PM UTC-6, -hh wrote:
> owl wrote:
> > DFS <nos...@dfs.com> wrote:
> > >
> > > Snit: "people in COLA trust my views on pretty much any
> > > topic more than they trust anyone else.
> >
> > LOL! Did that fool actually say that?
>
> Because it is true to form: "people" absent any other
> qualifiers is vague while trying to imply significance
> without actually saying so (a lie through misdirection).

There is missing context here but it hurts Snit more than it helps him IMO. Edwin wrote:

"Snit is neither a programmer nor an Apple employee. Why would anybody
ask for his "insight" on why Apple didn't update Objective-C? He
couldn't even make a successful spelling flame about it! LOL"

https://groups.google.com/forum/#!original/comp.os.linux.advocacy/xKpKAFTqiiY/vhJiXqaKtMUJ

Snit broke in after Eddie's "Objective-C" question with:

"Because while I am hardly an expert on the subject, people in COLA trust my

views on pretty much any topic more than they trust anyone else. I am seen
as an "expert" not because I am but because my *relative* knowledge is so
much greater than most in COLA."

https://groups.google.com/forum/#!original/comp.os.linux.advocacy/xKpKAFTqiiY/YXkQuJVnAScJ

The "subject" here is programming, which makes this statement even more hilarious.

> Strictly speaking, all that that statement is actually
> committing to that's there's at least one person other
> than himself.

Slimer?

> Just who this actually is is the mystery and odds are
> that it will be an account suspected of being a sockpuppet.

Ah... so it probably is Slimer ;)

[Steve Carroll]

On Tuesday, March 24, 2015 at 2:25:36 PM UTC-6, DFS wrote:
> On 3/24/2015 3:47 PM, Snit wrote:
> > On 3/24/15, 11:29 AM, in article bhv9...@rooftop.invalid, "owl"
> > <o...@rooftop.invalid> wrote:
> >
> >> DFS <nos...@dfs.com> wrote:
> >>> ... which topics do you think they don't trust your views on? And why
> >>> don't they trust your views on those topics?
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>> Snit: "people in COLA trust my views on pretty much any topic more than
> >>> they trust anyone else. I am seen as an "expert" not because I am
> >>> but because my *relative* knowledge is so much greater than most
> >>> in COLA."
> >>
> >>
> >> LOL! Did that fool actually say that?
> >> Snit, you dumbass! Nobody sees you as an expert on *anything*.
> >
> > At the time the "advocates" and others were trying to catch me in an error.
> > They were asking me questions on all sorts of things. Or maybe it was some
> > non-advocates.
> >
> > Who the hell knows. It was years ago.
>
>
> It was 8 months ago.

Surely you're not going to suggest he's... lying, are you?!

Hmmm... 8 months... I wonder how that interval squares with his 'expiration date' rule ;)

> > Don't remember. Don't care.

Right, Snit... <eyeroll>, if you sniffed even the slightest opportunity to be believed, you'd have 'cared' enough to enter quote-fest mode (and we all know it, even you).

[Snit]

On 3/24/15, 1:25 PM, in article mesh69$jq9$2...@dont-email.me, "DFS"

<nos...@dfs.com> wrote:

> On 3/24/2015 3:47 PM, Snit wrote:
>> On 3/24/15, 11:29 AM, in article bhv9...@rooftop.invalid, "owl"
>> <o...@rooftop.invalid> wrote:
>>
>>> DFS <nos...@dfs.com> wrote:
>>>> ... which topics do you think they don't trust your views on? And why
>>>> don't they trust your views on those topics?
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>> Snit: "people in COLA trust my views on pretty much any topic more than
>>>> they trust anyone else. I am seen as an "expert" not because I am
>>>> but because my *relative* knowledge is so much greater than most
>>>> in COLA."
>>>
>>>
>>> LOL! Did that fool actually say that?
>>> Snit, you dumbass! Nobody sees you as an expert on *anything*.
>>
>> At the time the "advocates" and others were trying to catch me in an error.
>> They were asking me questions on all sorts of things. Or maybe it was some
>> non-advocates.
>>
>> Who the hell knows. It was years ago.
>
> It was 8 months ago.

Ah, found it. Yeah, it was when cc and some others were begging me to
explain the basics of Objective-C and Swift and the like even though I am
not a programmer.

Totally idiotic discussion. But, sure, it was mostly cc and he often
pretends to be knowledgeable about things he is completely clueless about.
Think Peter and some of the other well known ignorant folks of COLA were
involved, too.

Was referring mostly to those in the conversation. And I was right.

[Snit]

On 3/24/15, 1:26 PM, in article mesh7q$jq9$4...@dont-email.me, "DFS"

<nos...@dfs.com> wrote:

> On 3/24/2015 2:51 PM, Steve Carroll wrote:
>> On Tuesday, March 24, 2015 at 11:12:29 AM UTC-6, DFS wrote:
>>> ... which topics do you think they don't trust your views on? And
>>> why don't they trust your views on those topics?
>>>
>>
>> I wouldn't trust his views on the use of BLOBs... and I'm not talking
>> about those things he drops all over the newsgroup ;)
>>
>> You said you're into databases, right? What's your take on the use of
>> BLOBs? If the data in question needs some kind of special indexing?
>
> By coincidence, I know a bit about this.

Meanwhile my main experience with databases is with FileMaker Pro... but see
how Carroll comes seeking my advice and knowledge.

You claimed the idea people do this is a lie... but here is evidence it is
true.
...

[Peter Köhlmann]

Snit wrote:

> On 3/24/15, 1:26 PM, in article mesh7q$jq9$4...@dont-email.me, "DFS"
> <nos...@dfs.com> wrote:
>
>> On 3/24/2015 2:51 PM, Steve Carroll wrote:
>>> On Tuesday, March 24, 2015 at 11:12:29 AM UTC-6, DFS wrote:
>>>> ... which topics do you think they don't trust your views on? And
>>>> why don't they trust your views on those topics?
>>>>
>>>
>>> I wouldn't trust his views on the use of BLOBs... and I'm not talking
>>> about those things he drops all over the newsgroup ;)
>>>
>>> You said you're into databases, right? What's your take on the use of
>>> BLOBs? If the data in question needs some kind of special indexing?
>>
>> By coincidence, I know a bit about this.
>
> Meanwhile my main experience with databases is with FileMaker Pro... but
> see how Carroll comes seeking my advice and knowledge.
>
> You claimed the idea people do this is a lie... but here is evidence it is
> true.

You can't read at all, imbecile Snit Michael Glasser. He talked not to you,
as that is totally pointless. He talked to DFS, you lunatic POS

[DFS]

On 3/24/2015 4:52 PM, Snit wrote:
> On 3/24/15, 1:26 PM, in article mesh7q$jq9$4...@dont-email.me, "DFS"
> <nos...@dfs.com> wrote:
>
>> On 3/24/2015 2:51 PM, Steve Carroll wrote:
>>> On Tuesday, March 24, 2015 at 11:12:29 AM UTC-6, DFS wrote:
>>>> ... which topics do you think they don't trust your views on? And
>>>> why don't they trust your views on those topics?
>>>>
>>>
>>> I wouldn't trust his views on the use of BLOBs... and I'm not talking
>>> about those things he drops all over the newsgroup ;)
>>>
>>> You said you're into databases, right? What's your take on the use of
>>> BLOBs? If the data in question needs some kind of special indexing?
>>
>> By coincidence, I know a bit about this.
>
> Meanwhile my main experience with databases is with FileMaker Pro...

I looked at it on Windows at one point - a nice little program. Very
powerful for an end-user system, and easy to use.

But Access puts it to shame (or used to) in a variety of important ways:

Dated, but as of 2008:

- Filemaker isn't programmable
- 7 years after Access it finally got conditional formatting
- 10 years after Access it finally has limited ODBC connectivity (and
it's limited to just 3 databases)
- just now has tab controls on forms
- can't send pass-thru statements to ODBC stores

> but see how Carroll comes seeking my advice and knowledge.
>
> You claimed the idea people do this is a lie... but here is evidence it is
> true.

His response was to me. Your narcissistic, misshapen head got confused,
again.

[Steve Carroll]

Just for general knowledge at this point.

> What back-end are you
> using? How many and how big and what kind of large objects will you be
> storing? Who needs to extract the data? What for? Lots of reads? Lots
> of updates?

When I was first thinking about this (~4 years ago) I was creating a MySQL/PHP based system that would need to hold around 1000 files, mp3 audio and small jpg images, ~300 KB in size per file max for audio, the images would be much smaller. The system was supposed to let the end user create an album and then let them upload audio and images to it to later be retrieved in a browser *as* an album (of short audio clips) along with the artwork. The guy wanted an easy way for he and his staff to run and maintain it, by themselves if possible. Nothing needed in the way of updates. As to how many reads, I can't say; his music catalog was (relatively) small and his internet presence was even smaller so I wouldn't imagine it would be too intensive.

Thanks. For that project (now defunct) I ended up not using BLOBs but I'm always curious what someone with DB experience has to say on the subject.

[Steve Carroll]

Snit's use of his "psych degree" here is actually pretty funny, timing-wise. I started to talk about the BLOB issue with DFS because he recently mentioned his DB experience somewhere on COLA. About a week prior to his mentioning it, I ran across an old BLOB related thread I created where Snit stuck his two cents in. The funny part is, if you were to look at the thread, you'd see where I made it pretty clear Snit is the last person I would ask for "advice and knowledge" regarding BLOBs. As expected, that thread was typical, with his "psych degree" in full bloom... just like here ;)

The bottom line is that Snit's jealous of people who have knowledge he doesn't. Instead of spending his time seeking that knowledge, he wastes it by puking up feeble crap like this. Trust me, this was deliberate "psych degree" vomit, not a mistake. You'll note that the word "Snit" didn't appear anywhere in the content of the post I responded to, it only appeared once in the thread's title:

https://groups.google.com/forum/#!original/comp.os.linux.advocacy/WNW-ksZRwo0/WO_vRSnpPBcJ

Also notice that Snit didn't go down jealousy road until *after* a person who has knowledge Snit doesn't have starting to give his opinion.

[Steve Carroll]

It's a ruse... and you should expect him to backtrack, go into 'apology' mode and then do something else to get the spotlight off you. He does stuff like this when someone starts talking about something he wishes he spent the time learning. IOW, thanks to today's postings you're now the target of his narcissistic rage ;)

[cc]

On Tuesday, March 24, 2015 at 4:49:54 PM UTC-4, Snit wrote:
> On 3/24/15, 1:25 PM, in article mesh69$jq9$2...@dont-email.me, "DFS"
> <nos...@dfs.com> wrote:
>
> > On 3/24/2015 3:47 PM, Snit wrote:
> >> On 3/24/15, 11:29 AM, in article bhv9...@rooftop.invalid, "owl"
> >> <o...@rooftop.invalid> wrote:
> >>
> >>> DFS <nos...@dfs.com> wrote:
> >>>> ... which topics do you think they don't trust your views on? And why
> >>>> don't they trust your views on those topics?
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>> Snit: "people in COLA trust my views on pretty much any topic more than
> >>>> they trust anyone else. I am seen as an "expert" not because I am
> >>>> but because my *relative* knowledge is so much greater than most
> >>>> in COLA."
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> LOL! Did that fool actually say that?
> >>> Snit, you dumbass! Nobody sees you as an expert on *anything*.
> >>
> >> At the time the "advocates" and others were trying to catch me in an error.
> >> They were asking me questions on all sorts of things. Or maybe it was some
> >> non-advocates.
> >>
> >> Who the hell knows. It was years ago.
> >
> > It was 8 months ago.
>
> Ah, found it. Yeah, it was when cc and some others were begging me to
> explain the basics of Objective-C and Swift and the like even though I am
> not a programmer.

Horseshit. No one asked you to explain anything. We were explaining it
to you. You're really racking up the lies lately.

[Ezekiel]

"cc" <scat...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:d1138f6c-86f3-4eff...@googlegroups.com...

There was some thread a couple/few years back where Snit talked to his well
respected, very senior expert programmer friend about why programming
languages are case sensitive. Some of the answers were /classic/ - it
compiles faster and some other nonsense like that.

[Snit]

On 3/25/15, 4:27 AM, in article
d1138f6c-86f3-4eff...@googlegroups.com, "cc"

<scat...@hotmail.com> wrote:

>>>> At the time the "advocates" and others were trying to catch me in an error.
>>>> They were asking me questions on all sorts of things. Or maybe it was some
>>>> non-advocates.
>>>>
>>>> Who the hell knows. It was years ago.
>>>
>>> It was 8 months ago.
>>
>> Ah, found it. Yeah, it was when cc and some others were begging me to
>> explain the basics of Objective-C and Swift and the like even though I am
>> not a programmer.
>
> Horseshit. No one asked you to explain anything. We were explaining it
> to you. You're really racking up the lies lately.

You repeatedly begged me to explain things about the languages to you. You
kept asking me about case sensitivity, why Apple would move to a new
language and not just add more to an old, why they allowed old code to be
used with the new language, and more.

You also, as you do so frequently, just flat out made up things about my
views as you worked to sound knowledgeable about things you are completely
ignorant about.

And, no, not digging through the thread to find specific examples. Just
don't care. Go live in the past with your favorite co-troll.

[Snit]

On 3/24/15, 2:09 PM, in article mesjol$qd$2...@dont-email.me, "DFS"

<nos...@dfs.com> wrote:

> On 3/24/2015 4:52 PM, Snit wrote:
>> On 3/24/15, 1:26 PM, in article mesh7q$jq9$4...@dont-email.me, "DFS"
>> <nos...@dfs.com> wrote:
>>
>>> On 3/24/2015 2:51 PM, Steve Carroll wrote:
>>>> On Tuesday, March 24, 2015 at 11:12:29 AM UTC-6, DFS wrote:
>>>>> ... which topics do you think they don't trust your views on? And
>>>>> why don't they trust your views on those topics?
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> I wouldn't trust his views on the use of BLOBs... and I'm not talking
>>>> about those things he drops all over the newsgroup ;)
>>>>
>>>> You said you're into databases, right? What's your take on the use of
>>>> BLOBs? If the data in question needs some kind of special indexing?
>>>
>>> By coincidence, I know a bit about this.
>>
>> Meanwhile my main experience with databases is with FileMaker Pro...
>
> I looked at it on Windows at one point - a nice little program. Very
> powerful for an end-user system, and easy to use.
>
> But Access puts it to shame (or used to) in a variety of important ways:
>
> Dated, but as of 2008:
>
> - Filemaker isn't programmable

It has a decent scripting language, but, sure, not fully programmable.

> - 7 years after Access it finally got conditional formatting
> - 10 years after Access it finally has limited ODBC connectivity (and
> it's limited to just 3 databases)

I think it has had ODBC connectivity for many years... but I did not use it
much and if I recall correctly it has weaknesses. Do not remember details.

> - just now has tab controls on forms

Got that in version 7 (or maybe 8)... and they are on 13.

> - can't send pass-thru statements to ODBC stores

I am a few versions behind at this point, but last I saw you could not even
use the results of a query as a table. It has some BIG weaknesses with its
data model.

But it is easy to use and quick to develop with.

[Snit]

On 3/25/15, 5:01 AM, in article meu819$7qs$1...@dont-email.me, "Ezekiel"

<ze...@nosuchemail.com> wrote:

>>> Ah, found it. Yeah, it was when cc and some others were begging me to
>>> explain the basics of Objective-C and Swift and the like even though I am
>>> not a programmer.
>>
>> Horseshit. No one asked you to explain anything. We were explaining it
>> to you. You're really racking up the lies lately.
>
> There was some thread a couple/few years back where Snit talked to his well
> respected, very senior expert programmer friend about why programming
> languages are case sensitive. Some of the answers were /classic/ - it
> compiles faster and some other nonsense like that.

Yes, I talked to him about that and other things and likely misstated some
things he said. It was *hilarious*.

Anyway, still waiting for someone to defend the value of case sensitivity
(and not just case preserving) in computer languages and file systems. cc's
attempts truly were funny.

[cc]

On Wednesday, March 25, 2015 at 1:32:03 PM UTC-4, Snit wrote:
> On 3/25/15, 4:27 AM, in article
> d1138f6c-86f3-4eff...@googlegroups.com, "cc"
> <scat...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
> >>>> At the time the "advocates" and others were trying to catch me in an error.
> >>>> They were asking me questions on all sorts of things. Or maybe it was some
> >>>> non-advocates.
> >>>>
> >>>> Who the hell knows. It was years ago.
> >>>
> >>> It was 8 months ago.
> >>
> >> Ah, found it. Yeah, it was when cc and some others were begging me to
> >> explain the basics of Objective-C and Swift and the like even though I am
> >> not a programmer.
> >
> > Horseshit. No one asked you to explain anything. We were explaining it
> > to you. You're really racking up the lies lately.
>
> You repeatedly begged me to explain things about the languages to you.

I did no such thing, liar.

> You
> kept asking me about case sensitivity, why Apple would move to a new
> language and not just add more to an old, why they allowed old code to be
> used with the new language, and more.

Do you know what a rhetorical question is?

There was also never any question, rhetorical or otherwise as to why
they allowed old code with the new language. They had to, to remain
compatible with any native libraries developers had written, as there
is no interface to developer native libraries in Swift except through
C. Greycloud and I explained this to you.

> You also, as you do so frequently, just flat out made up things about my
> views as you worked to sound knowledgeable about things you are completely
> ignorant about.

I did no such thing, liar.

> And, no, not digging through the thread to find specific examples. Just
> don't care. Go live in the past with your favorite co-troll.
>

There are no specific examples to find. Funny how you claim to be
honest and honorable and always support your claims, and yet you can't
do it in this instance, or in several that DFS has pointed out.

[cc]

On Wednesday, March 25, 2015 at 1:59:29 PM UTC-4, Snit wrote:
> On 3/25/15, 5:01 AM, in article meu819$7qs$1...@dont-email.me, "Ezekiel"
> <ze...@nosuchemail.com> wrote:
>
> >>> Ah, found it. Yeah, it was when cc and some others were begging me to
> >>> explain the basics of Objective-C and Swift and the like even though I am
> >>> not a programmer.
> >>
> >> Horseshit. No one asked you to explain anything. We were explaining it
> >> to you. You're really racking up the lies lately.
> >
> > There was some thread a couple/few years back where Snit talked to his well
> > respected, very senior expert programmer friend about why programming
> > languages are case sensitive. Some of the answers were /classic/ - it
> > compiles faster and some other nonsense like that.
>
> Yes, I talked to him about that and other things and likely misstated some
> things he said. It was *hilarious*.
>
> Anyway, still waiting for someone to defend the value of case sensitivity
> (and not just case preserving) in computer languages and file systems. cc's
> attempts truly were funny.
>

I know you have a hard on for me, but I came in late to that argument.
It was mostly Hadron and Ezekiel putting you in your place on the case
sensitivity.

[Snit]

On 3/25/15, 11:06 AM, in article
97075102-3d68-429f...@googlegroups.com, "cc"
<scat...@hotmail.com> wrote:

...

>> You repeatedly begged me to explain things about the languages to you.
>
> I did no such thing, liar.

You did. And it came to the summary that, on case sensitivity:

On one side we have:
* every college we can find
* every university we can find
* every source found through Google Scholar
* and even every blogger - mind boggling to see such agreement
* a whole list of specific affects to back the view

On the other hand we have
* a language designed to be backward compatible with C is a lot like C!
* popular equals best: go QWERTY and teaspoons (in the U.S)!
* code snippets showing case sensitivity can be used

Gee, do you remember which side you took. It was utterly hilarious! I, on
the other hand, said I tend to side with the first side but was still open
to evidence because it is not an area I am an expert in and admitted there
might be things I had overlooked.

>> You
>> kept asking me about case sensitivity, why Apple would move to a new
>> language and not just add more to an old, why they allowed old code to be
>> used with the new language, and more.
>
> Do you know what a rhetorical question is?

You can back pedal all you want. You kept asking me question after question
about Swift and case sensitivity and on and on. You even asked me things
like why they did not base Objective-C on FORTRAN or Cobol. Really. Here:

cc:
-----
What you keep ignoring is that there was an opportunity (and still
is an opportunity) to make Objective-Fortran. Or Objective-Cobol.
It would have been just as easy, even easier considering the still
relative popularity of Fortran in the early '80s when Objective-C
was started, to base it off of a case insensitive language. BUT
THEY DIDN'T.
-----

And you made absolutely absurd claims. Here was my favorite... which I then
applied to QWERTY using your EXACT logic and mostly your words (just
replacing them for the different area):

cc:
-----
Why would they be so popular if it had alot of disadvantages? Why
would all the insanely smart language designers of the past few
decades choose, and continue to choose, to create case sensitivite
languages? Why would Apple and NeXT, which did not like the
current state of languages, choose a little used, *case
sensitive*, combination of smalltalk and C? You're saying they
made a mistake not going with a case insensitive language. Well
they had the resources, and obviously the desire to use what they
thought was a better language (even if no one else uses it), so
why did they pick a case sensitive language that you alledge has
so many disadvantages? You keep running from these points. Of
course the answer is simple: Case sensitive languages are popular
by far because case sensitivity is better than case insensitivity.
This isn't music or movies, this is science and engineering. It's
popular for a reason.
-----
You don't understand why case sensitive languages are better. We
get that. You're an idiot. You also have an idiot, liar, friend
who thinks compiled microcontroller code is affect by case
sensitivity, lied about .NET guidelines and tools, and who duped
you into thinking he was an expert. So you have that going against
you too. You keep on thinking that case insensitive languages are
best and the world will continue to ignore you and teach, learn,
design, and use case sensitive languages as a vast majority.
-----

Snit, mocking cc's complete lack of ability to use logic:
-----
Why would QWERTY keyboards be so popular if it had a lot of
disadvantages? Why would all the insanely smart keyboard designers
of the past few decades choose, and continue to choose, to create
QWERTY keyboard layouts? Why would Apple and NeXT, which did not
like the current state of keyboard and designed their own, choose
to use a QWERTY layout? Anyone who disagrees is saying they made a
mistake not going with a Dvorak or something else. Well they had
the resources, and obviously the desire to use what they thought
was a better keyboard layout (even if no one else uses it), so why
did they pick a QWERTY layout that some allege has so many
disadvantages?

Anyone who disagrees is just running from these points. Of course
the answer is simple: QWERTY layouts are popular by far because
QWERTY is better than Dvorak or any other option. This isn't music
or movies, this is science and engineering. It's popular for a
reason.
-----
Some don't understand why QWERTY layouts are better. I get that.
Such people are idiots. And if anyone claims they have spoken to
an expert who disagrees than that expert is an idiot, too. They
can keep on thinking that Dvorak or other layout are best and the
world will continue to ignore you and teach, learn, design, and
use QWERTY layouts the vast majority of the time.
-----

QWERTY is the best, right cc? No arguing with your "logic". Right, cc?
...

But does not matter that I now have pulled up specific examples of your
ignorance on the topic. You will deny it and beg me to keep going on and on
and on and on and on about this.

As I said, I have no such interest. My reminding you of how much you
humiliated yourself was done merely as a favor to you because you begged me
so much to do so.

Weird how you do not just let your past BS remain in the past.

[Snit]

On 3/25/15, 11:08 AM, in article
febd4025-b90b-41d4...@googlegroups.com, "cc"
<scat...@hotmail.com> wrote:

...

> I know you have a hard on for me, but I came in late to that argument.
> It was mostly Hadron and Ezekiel putting you in your place on the case
> sensitivity.

The best part of that whole debate:

I loved how you just crumbled into whining and insults after that. :)

[Ezekiel]

"cc" <scat...@hotmail.com> wrote in message

news:febd4025-b90b-41d4...@googlegroups.com...

Below is the *partial* post from Snit. His anonymous "very experienced and
respected expert programmer" gave some hilarious reasons why programming
languages shouldn't be case sensitive.

Example - someone at his company used a bad variable name and it caused a
"great deal of lost work" and "it is costing the company a fair amount of
time and energy and money." to change the variable name.

If only this experienced respected programmer had an editor that supported
"search and replace" or had access to sophisticated state of the art tools
like 'sed' (circa 1973).


Subject: Procmail
Date: Saturday, January 25, 2014 5:46 PM
MsgId: <CF097EDF.2C590%use...@gallopinginsanity.com>

<quote>
OK, talked for some time with the programmer I know. Without giving much
detail about him, he is *very* experienced, works at a huge corporation
known for both their software and hardware and for being the biggest name in
the industry he is in, and he is very well respected by his peers at the
company (I know a number of them and have met many others at his wedding
many years ago, etc.). Since you have nothing but an appeal to authority
there is *no* doubt that he is an authority far better than you and anyone
else in COLA. Bar none. He knows what he is talking about. His word holds
more weight than yours and the rest of COLA combined.

And I was surprised by what he said. I expected him to back case
sensitivity. He did not.

With that said: he did note this is a "religious" debate and you will find
"real programmers" on both sides. But his basic view (and, remember, no
matter what else you say he is *far* more of an authority than you are - no,
I cannot prove this because I will not say who he is, but if your goal is to
convince me you will fail... your words mean *nothing* to me and his words
are very well respected):

In other words: as a non-programmer doing basic research, I *leaned* toward
what someone who is 1000x the "authority" holds to in a *very* strong way.
You, with no authority, no support, no reason, and no experience have pushed
a view which - as the real programmer notes - some programmers hold on to
with religious fervor, but you cannot back it.
</quote>

LOL.

[cc]

On Wednesday, March 25, 2015 at 2:21:17 PM UTC-4, Snit wrote:
> On 3/25/15, 11:06 AM, in article
> 97075102-3d68-429f...@googlegroups.com, "cc"
> <scat...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
> ...
> >> You repeatedly begged me to explain things about the languages to you.
> >
> > I did no such thing, liar.
>
> You did. And it came to the summary that,

Ignoring, briefly, your bullshit interpretation of everything, what
you are referring to was in an entirely different thread than the
Objective-C quote that DFS posted, and I was responding to in the
post you're quoting. You're now lumping everything in together.

[cc]

Classic.

[Snit]

On 3/25/15, 11:49 AM, in article meuvu4$ffo$1...@dont-email.me, "Ezekiel"
<ze...@nosuchemail.com> wrote:

...

>> I know you have a hard on for me, but I came in late to that argument.
>> It was mostly Hadron and Ezekiel putting you in your place on the case
>> sensitivity.
>
>
> Below is the *partial* post from Snit. His anonymous "very experienced and
> respected expert programmer" gave some hilarious reasons why programming
> languages shouldn't be case sensitive.
>
> Example - someone at his company used a bad variable name and it caused a
> "great deal of lost work" and "it is costing the company a fair amount of
> time and energy and money." to change the variable name.

Just changing a variable name is not that hard (though you have to be
careful to change it in all relevant places). The bigger issue is finding
all the bugs caused by it.

If you have two variables: "myDogHouse" and "myDoghouse" it can be very hard
to find. Humans read those as the same (yes, I KNOW you can see the
difference when it is pointed out, but it is easy to miss in thousands of
lines of code).

> If only this experienced respected programmer had an editor that supported
> "search and replace" or had access to sophisticated state of the art tools
> like 'sed' (circa 1973).

Your argument assumes they would not have the two constructs with the same
name other than case. Which backs what I found. Remember, when the reasons
for and against having such names allowed were compared this is what was
found:

In support of NOT having such names be allowed:

* every college we can find
* every university we can find
* every source found through Google Scholar
* and even every blogger - mind boggling to see such agreement
* a whole list of specific affects to back the view

In support of having such names be allowed:

* a language designed to be backward compatible with C is a lot like C!
* popular equals best: go QWERTY and teaspoons (in the U.S)!
* code snippets showing case sensitivity can be used

If you think I left some out please let me know.

Remember, I have no dog in this race... just noted the support offered by
the "experts" in COLA was weak. And when talking to an actual expert he did
not agree... but that is not proof. I am sure other REAL experts would.

...

[Snit]

On 3/25/15, 12:16 PM, in article
322000ea-8074-44c4...@googlegroups.com, "cc"

You beg me to play your trolling games but when I actually give in and go
back to the thread / debate you reference and quote your absolutely
ignorance nonsense you snip it and run.

This is Carrollesque of you. It is your white flag.

You have just shown you know you are wrong... demonstrated it fully. But you
will lie and pretend otherwise and then demand I play your games.

Not like this is the first time we danced this dance. Heck, we did it
recently on another debate... I quoted you and you snipped. Over and over.

You have NOTHING to back your views so you run.

[Peter Köhlmann]

Snit wrote:

> On 3/25/15, 11:49 AM, in article meuvu4$ffo$1...@dont-email.me, "Ezekiel"
> <ze...@nosuchemail.com> wrote:
>
> ...
>>> I know you have a hard on for me, but I came in late to that argument.
>>> It was mostly Hadron and Ezekiel putting you in your place on the case
>>> sensitivity.
>>
>>
>> Below is the *partial* post from Snit. His anonymous "very experienced
>> and respected expert programmer" gave some hilarious reasons why
>> programming languages shouldn't be case sensitive.
>>
>> Example - someone at his company used a bad variable name and it caused a
>> "great deal of lost work" and "it is costing the company a fair amount of
>> time and energy and money." to change the variable name.
>
> Just changing a variable name is not that hard (though you have to be
> careful to change it in all relevant places). The bigger issue is finding
> all the bugs caused by it.
>
> If you have two variables: "myDogHouse" and "myDoghouse" it can be very
> hard to find. Humans read those as the same (yes, I KNOW you can see the
> difference when it is pointed out, but it is easy to miss in thousands of
> lines of code).

Bullshit. It is extremely easy to find. Every compiler will flag the
instance of the variable which was written wrong. This has nothing to do
with case-sensitivity at all. A case-sensitive compiler will flag the
instance with the wrong case just as a compiler which is not case-sensitive
will flag a variable which was just spelled wrong. And no sane programmer
(which would exclude you in all imaginable cases) would use different
variables which just have different case

That you have no idea at all about programming is showing. And your "expert"
(who knows programming so much better than everyone else) has no clue
whatsoever, too

In short: You have shown once again that you are really that lying imbecile,
Snit Michael Glasser

[Snit]

On 3/25/15, 2:24 PM, in article mev90p$p65$1...@dont-email.me, "Peter Köhlmann"

<peter-k...@t-online.de> wrote:

> Snit wrote:
>
>> On 3/25/15, 11:49 AM, in article meuvu4$ffo$1...@dont-email.me, "Ezekiel"
>> <ze...@nosuchemail.com> wrote:
>>
>> ...
>>>> I know you have a hard on for me, but I came in late to that argument.
>>>> It was mostly Hadron and Ezekiel putting you in your place on the case
>>>> sensitivity.
>>>
>>>
>>> Below is the *partial* post from Snit. His anonymous "very experienced
>>> and respected expert programmer" gave some hilarious reasons why
>>> programming languages shouldn't be case sensitive.
>>>
>>> Example - someone at his company used a bad variable name and it caused a
>>> "great deal of lost work" and "it is costing the company a fair amount of
>>> time and energy and money." to change the variable name.
>>
>> Just changing a variable name is not that hard (though you have to be
>> careful to change it in all relevant places). The bigger issue is finding
>> all the bugs caused by it.
>>
>> If you have two variables: "myDogHouse" and "myDoghouse" it can be very
>> hard to find. Humans read those as the same (yes, I KNOW you can see the
>> difference when it is pointed out, but it is easy to miss in thousands of
>> lines of code).
>
> Bullshit. It is extremely easy to find. Every compiler will flag the
> instance of the variable which was written wrong. This has nothing to do
> with case-sensitivity at all.

Sure it does. If you have do not have case sensitivity you cannot have such
confusion.

> A case-sensitive compiler will flag the instance with the wrong case just as a
> compiler which is not case-sensitive will flag a variable which was just
> spelled wrong.

If the compiler is calling it wrong to use "myDogHouse" and "myDoghouse"
then why allow the two variables at all? Can you show an example of such an
error?

> And no sane programmer (which would exclude you in all
> imaginable cases) would use different variables which just have different case

If it is not an issue then why not? LOL!

You contradict yourself.

It does happen. People make mistakes.

> That you have no idea at all about programming is showing. And your "expert"
> (who knows programming so much better than everyone else) has no clue
> whatsoever, too

And yet his view is well backed by other sources and you have... um, maybe
cc? LOL!

> In short: You have shown once again that you are really that lying imbecile,
> Snit Michael Glasser

[Steve Carroll]

Never underestimate Snit's ability to generate a 'story' when needed arises, just ramp up the ol' "psych degree" and presto! Instant programming "expert"! He has a story for every occasion, here's one where he's facing off with one of the U.S. government's evil minions, complete with 'path blocking' and 'voter threat'... such a timely 'story' it was, and it fit in so nicely with the rest of Snit's politicizing threads:

--
My local library has a showing of FahrenHYPE 9/11 today - so I went to see
what dirt they could pull up on Michael Moore and his movie.
I expected they would be able to pull up plenty - after all, I have no doubt
that the original F 9/11 was filled with innuendo, partial parts of stories,
and perhaps even some factual errors. It was not produced to be even
handed, and it clearly was not.

That is what I expected.

While there may have been a few minutes here and there where the movie was
able to point to a flaw in Fahrenheit 9/11, for the most part it was nothing
but even more over-the-top propaganda Fahrenheit 9/11 itself. It was filled
with self-contradictory statement - such as when it claim terrorism was a
clear thread to America - to outright lies - such as saying the war in Iraq
is tied to 9/11. Mostly it was filled with whiney people spewing emotional
baggage onto the screen.

At the end of the movie some yahoo military type stood up at the front of
the audience and started spewing BS about how if Kerry is elected all war
heroes in the US will be tried as war criminals. All. He made that clear.
The guy was whacked. So I stood up and politely started to walk out - not
looking at him but also not hiding my disgust for what he was saying. He
must have seen my eyes rolling, because he blocked me and started to go off
on how I had better vote for Bush and how horrid Kerry is ... and even told
me he could squish me like a bug.

Well, now I was in front of a moderate sized audience with some crazed
ex-special forces idiot spewing off at me... so I opened my mouth. I told
him he was very much right - with one hand tied behind his back he could
still probably think of 10 ways to kill me or make me wish I were dead. So
what? He was trying to argue he was right based on this. He believed might
makes right. That is about as far as his thinking could go. And he and
Bush are in agreement.

With that I turned my back to him and walked out the door. I was happy to
see the rest of the audience following me. :)
--

If this even happened (a *big* if), notice what can only be viewed as the punchline of this joke, "the rest of the audience" was "following" Snit when the movie was over, they didn't leave *because* the movie was over. LOL!

[Peter Köhlmann]

Idiot

[GreyCloud]

Snit wrote:

> On 3/25/15, 5:01 AM, in article meu819$7qs$1...@dont-email.me, "Ezekiel"
> <ze...@nosuchemail.com> wrote:
>
>>>> Ah, found it. Yeah, it was when cc and some others were begging me to
>>>> explain the basics of Objective-C and Swift and the like even though I
>>>> am not a programmer.
>>>
>>> Horseshit. No one asked you to explain anything. We were explaining it
>>> to you. You're really racking up the lies lately.
>>
>> There was some thread a couple/few years back where Snit talked to his
>> well respected, very senior expert programmer friend about why
>> programming languages are case sensitive. Some of the answers were
>> /classic/ - it compiles faster and some other nonsense like that.
>
> Yes, I talked to him about that and other things and likely misstated some
> things he said. It was *hilarious*.
>
> Anyway, still waiting for someone to defend the value of case sensitivity
> (and not just case preserving) in computer languages and file systems.
> cc's attempts truly were funny.
>
>

It isn't hard at all. First you have to know computing history that led to
case sensitivity. In the early days of computing, all there were was
punched cards for fortran. These were very expensive units and only used
upper case to keep the cost down. There were also Teletypes and these were
also very expensive and used only upper case. So the languages back then
were all in upper-case. The only one that wasn't upper-case was C in the
late 60's to early 70's... and used CRT terminals that could accomodate
upper and lower case characters. It was easier to just type in lower-case
characters and reserved upper-case for defined constants that helped
identify the constants for the program. This carried over to pascal as
well, since this language came about after C. Basic was also around the
same time of Fortran, so it too was all upper-case for the purpose of
learning the Fortran language and was developed at Dartmouth College, New
Hampshire. On later Fortran releases, one could use either upper or lower
case characters but it didn't matter for Fortran code as the compilers
didn't distinguish case. The whole thing was mostly done for cost savings
and simplification of hardware, and that hardware was very expensive to fix
if it broke. The fewer moving parts the better in those days.

[Steve Carroll]

And once the cost came down the ease of reading in mixed case (all upper case is nasty!) was the natural progression. Snit, and his "expert" are overlooking one simple fact (among other things), computers languages exist for humans, not compilers.

[Slimer]

You forgot to post a message before signing.

--
Slimer
OpenMedia, GreenPeace Supporter & SPCA Paw Partner
Encrypt.

[Snit]

On 3/25/15, 2:54 PM, in article
D9udnZiKKPEvs47I...@bresnan.com, "GreyCloud" <mi...@cumulus.com>
wrote:

Cannot find it off hand, but there is a quote from Dennis Ritchie where he
speaks about how when he was developing C he just took it as a given and
gave it no real thought. He also spoke about how his development favored
"simplicity over perfection" and it is more simple to NOT add extra code to
have case insensitivity.

I was not done because he or anyone else was saying it was better. It was
based on the technology of the time.

Now it has become habit, much like the QWERTY keyboard. Even as keyboards
change we keep the same basic QWERTY layout.

[GreyCloud]

Of course. Compilers don't care. If a variable name, as he keeps
alluding to, is misspelled, the compiler will catch it if it isn't
defined and let you know about it and where. Not hard at all, as I've
been thru that stuff for a long time.

But I've forgotten how much a Teletype cost back then, but it sure
wasn't cheap to get one fixed either and required a lot of oiling during
service. The mechanical devices used in the early day IT centers were
always breaking down.


--
When told the reason for daylight savings time the Old
Indian said, "Only the government would believe that you
could cut a foot off the top of a blanket, sew it to the
bottom, and have a longer blanket."

[Snit]

On 3/25/15, 6:45 PM, in article
vZudnTSy-MlQ-Y7I...@bresnan.com, "GreyCloud" <cum...@mist.com>
wrote:

>>> It isn't hard at all. First you have to know computing history that led to
>>> case sensitivity. In the early days of computing, all there were was
>>> punched cards for fortran. These were very expensive units and only used
>>> upper case to keep the cost down. There were also Teletypes and these were
>>> also very expensive and used only upper case. So the languages back then
>>> were all in upper-case. The only one that wasn't upper-case was C in the
>>> late 60's to early 70's... and used CRT terminals that could accomodate
>>> upper and lower case characters. It was easier to just type in lower-case
>>> characters and reserved upper-case for defined constants that helped
>>> identify the constants for the program. This carried over to pascal as
>>> well, since this language came about after C. Basic was also around the
>>> same time of Fortran, so it too was all upper-case for the purpose of
>>> learning the Fortran language and was developed at Dartmouth College, New
>>> Hampshire. On later Fortran releases, one could use either upper or lower
>>> case characters but it didn't matter for Fortran code as the compilers
>>> didn't distinguish case. The whole thing was mostly done for cost savings
>>> and simplification of hardware, and that hardware was very expensive to fix
>>> if it broke. The fewer moving parts the better in those days.
>>
>> And once the cost came down the ease of reading in mixed case (all upper case
>> is nasty!) was the natural progression. Snit, and his "expert" are
>> overlooking one simple fact (among other things), computers languages exist
>> for humans, not compilers.
>
> Of course.

Carroll is confusing case sensitivity with case preserving. I do not think
anyone is saying that we should use languages which accept only upper case
letters!

> Compilers don't care. If a variable name, as he keeps
> alluding to, is misspelled, the compiler will catch it if it isn't
> defined and let you know about it and where. Not hard at all, as I've
> been thru that stuff for a long time.
>
> But I've forgotten how much a Teletype cost back then, but it sure
> wasn't cheap to get one fixed either and required a lot of oiling during
> service. The mechanical devices used in the early day IT centers were
> always breaking down.



--

[Steve Carroll]

You're high as a kite today, aren't you ;)

> I do not think anyone is saying that we should use languages
> which accept only upper case letters!

Unlike you, I actually addressed the context of what I responded to:

"computing history" and, wait for it... "only used upper case".

[Steve Carroll]

NO, you must be wrong! Snit said so!

LOL!

[DFS]

On 3/24/2015 4:49 PM, Snit wrote:
> On 3/24/15, 1:25 PM, in article mesh69$jq9$2...@dont-email.me, "DFS"

> <nos...@dfs.com> wrote:
>
>> On 3/24/2015 3:47 PM, Snit wrote:
>>> On 3/24/15, 11:29 AM, in article bhv9...@rooftop.invalid, "owl"
>>> <o...@rooftop.invalid> wrote:
>>>

>>>> DFS <nos...@dfs.com> wrote:
>>>>> ... which topics do you think they don't trust your views on? And why
>>>>> don't they trust your views on those topics?
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>

>>>>> Snit: "people in COLA trust my views on pretty much any topic more than
>>>>> they trust anyone else. I am seen as an "expert" not because I am
>>>>> but because my *relative* knowledge is so much greater than most
>>>>> in COLA."
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> LOL! Did that fool actually say that?
>>>> Snit, you dumbass! Nobody sees you as an expert on *anything*.
>>>

>>> At the time the "advocates" and others were trying to catch me in an error.
>>> They were asking me questions on all sorts of things. Or maybe it was some
>>> non-advocates.
>>>
>>> Who the hell knows. It was years ago.
>>
>> It was 8 months ago.

https://groups.google.com/forum/#!msg/comp.os.linux.advocacy/xKpKAFTqiiY/3Buh8PHCY6kJ

> Ah, found it. Yeah, it was when cc and some others were begging me to
> explain the basics of Objective-C and Swift and the like even though I am
> not a programmer.

Priceless!

This is a newsgroup populated with programmers and developers
well-versed in C and C++ and Java and object-oriented programming. The
very LAST person any of them would ask about the basics of Objective-C
and Swift is you.


> Totally idiotic discussion.

Most if not all discussions you're involved in become idiotic. Funny
how that works.



> But, sure, it was mostly cc and he often
> pretends to be knowledgeable about things he is completely clueless about.

I've never once seen that.



> Think Peter and some of the other well known ignorant folks of COLA were
> involved, too.
>
> Was referring mostly to those in the conversation.

Then why did you say 'people in cola' and 'most in cola'?

Answer: you're lying again.



> And I was right.

No, you weren't.

[DFS]

On 3/24/2015 4:52 PM, Snit wrote:

> Meanwhile my main experience with databases is with FileMaker Pro...

You want some real experience with the best relational databases? You
can get it cheap or free, on Windows or Linux.


Download Oracle 11g Release 2 for free
http://www.oracle.com/technetwork/database/enterprise-edition/downloads/index.html

Also download a free GUI tool called SQL Developer
http://www.oracle.com/technetwork/developer-tools/sql-developer/downloads/index.html


Get Microsoft SQL Server Developer Edition 2014 for about $50
http://www.amazon.com/gp/offer-listing/B00JKMY8KC/ref=dp_olp_new?ie=UTF8&condition=new

SSDE comes with lots of excellent mgmt tools.

IBM also has a free 'Express-C' version of their DB2 system.



Certification with any will help get you in the company front door -
though it's not clear if you can even get past your own front door.

I don't have any certs, but my level of knowledge and experience with
Oracle is maybe 'junior DBA' (or it was some years ago, when I last used
it). Oracle knowledge paid off tremendously for me. Not only
financially, but in the ability to be more self-sufficient on the job.
There's nothing worse than having to beg a self-righteous Oracle DBA to
drop and recreate a table for you.

Best thing to learn about Oracle is how to administer the database with
DDL scripts and a little PL/SQL code. You can do it all by GUI, too,
but the scripts are better.

You can run a script (eg create_environment.sql) to re/create an entire
Oracle schema: tablespaces, tables, constraints, sequences,
roles/grants/privileges, users, views, stored_procedures, triggers, etc.

Examples:
create tablespaces (Unix/Linux):
--FAST GROWTH TRANSACTION DATA
CREATE TABLESPACE XXX_TRANS_DATA

DATAFILE '/u05/oradata/wkfd/XXX_TRANS_DATA_01.dbf' SIZE 250M,
'/u05/oradata/wkfd/XXX_TRANS_DATA_02.dbf' SIZE 250M

DEFAULT STORAGE (
INITIAL 10M
NEXT 10M
MINEXTENTS 1
MAXEXTENTS UNLIMITED
PCTINCREASE 1
);


tables
CREATE TABLE XXX.TT_ORDER_CUSTOMER_PHONE
(
CUST_ID NUMBER(10) NOT NULL,
PHONE_NBR_TYPE VARCHAR2(1) NOT NULL,
CUST_PHONE_NBR VARCHAR2(30) NOT NULL
)
TABLESPACE XXX_TRANS_DATA
STORAGE ( INITIAL 1M
NEXT 1M
MINEXTENTS 1
MAXEXTENTS 10000
PCTINCREASE 0);


ALTER TABLE XXX.TT_ORDER_CUSTOMER_PHONE
ADD CONSTRAINT PK_TT_ORDER_CUSTOMER_PHONE PRIMARY KEY
(
CUST_ID,
PHONE_NBR_TYPE
);

COMMENT ON TABLE XXX.TT_ORDER_CUSTOMER_PHONE IS 'customer phone numbers';
COMMENT ON COLUMN XXX.TT_ORDER_CUSTOMER_PHONE.OCUST_ID IS 'foreign key
to Order Customers table';
COMMENT ON COLUMN XXX.TT_ORDER_CUSTOMER_PHONE.PHONE_NBR_TYPE IS 'type of
phone number R-residence,B-business, etc';
COMMENT ON COLUMN XXX.TT_ORDER_CUSTOMER_PHONE.OCUST_PHONE_NBR IS 'phone
number';


constraints (limit data going into tables)
ALTER TABLE XXX.TL_UNIT_ID_TICKET_LOC
ADD CONSTRAINT FK_TL_UNIT_ID_GDS FOREIGN KEY ( GDS_CODE )
REFERENCES XXX.TL_GDS ( GDS_CODE );

sequences (incremental numbers usually used for primary keys and other IDs)
CREATE SEQUENCE XXX.ORDER_CUSTOMER_ID_SEQ
MINVALUE 1
NOMAXVALUE
INCREMENT BY 1
NOCYCLE
CACHE 200
ORDER

roles (groups of permissions)
DROP ROLE ROLE_XXX_REPORT_USER;
DROP ROLE ROLE_XXX_DEV_USER;
CREATE ROLE ROLE_XXX_REPORT_USER;
CREATE ROLE ROLE_XXX_DEV_USER;

grants (privileges on objects)
GRANT SELECT ON XXX.TBLNAME TO ROLE_XXX_REPORT_USER;
GRANT SELECT, INSERT, UPDATE, DELETE ON XXX.TBLNAME TO ROLE_XXX_DEV_USER;

users
DROP USER XXX_ADMIN;
CREATE USER XXX_ADMIN IDENTIFIED BY XXX_ADMIN
DEFAULT TABLESPACE USERS
TEMPORARY TABLESPACE TEMP;
GRANT CONNECT, RESOURCE, DBA TO XXX_ADMIN;
GRANT ROLE_XXX_CREATE_SESSION TO XXX_ADMIN;
GRANT ROLE_XXX_ADMIN_USER TO XXX_ADMIN;

DROP USER CHUAN;
CREATE USER CHUAN IDENTIFIED BY CHUAN
DEFAULT TABLESPACE USERS
TEMPORARY TABLESPACE TEMP;
GRANT ROLE_XXX_CREATE_SESSION TO CHUAN;
GRANT ROLE_XXX_REPORT_USER TO CHUAN;


views (stored query)
CREATE OR REPLACE VIEW XML_NO_ORDER
SELECT X.ORDER_ID AS XML_WITH_NO_ORDER
FROM TT_ORDER_XML X, TT_ORDER O
WHERE O.ORDER_ID (+) = X.ORDER_ID
AND O.ORDER_ID IS NULL

stored procedures (programs)
CREATE OR REPLACE PROCEDURE DELETEORDERDELIVERY (DeliveryID NUMBER) IS
BEGIN
DELETE FROM TX_ORDER_DELIVERY_ITEM WHERE DELIVERY_ID = DeliveryID;
DELETE FROM TT_ORDER_DELIVERY WHERE DELIVERY_ID = DeliveryID;
COMMIT;
END DELETEORDERDELIVERY ;

triggers (actions that occur in response to table operations)
CREATE OR REPLACE TRIGGER XXX.BI_GET_NEXT_ORDER_ID
BEFORE INSERT
ON TT_ORDER
FOR EACH ROW
BEGIN
IF :new.ORDER_ID IS NULL THEN
:new.ORDER_ID := NEXTORDERID;
END IF;
END;


There. Now you're 50% Oracle DBA, 50% asylum escapee.

[Snit]

On 3/25/15, 8:41 PM, in article mevv4m$960$4...@dont-email.me, "DFS"
<nos...@dfs.com> wrote:

...

>> Ah, found it. Yeah, it was when cc and some others were begging me to
>> explain the basics of Objective-C and Swift and the like even though I am
>> not a programmer.
>
> Priceless!
>
> This is a newsgroup populated with programmers and developers
> well-versed in C and C++ and Java and object-oriented programming. The
> very LAST person any of them would ask about the basics of Objective-C
> and Swift is you.

That was my point. Why was cc begging ME to help him understand programming
concepts.

And why were the programmers not capable of doing so? They made a claim and
insisted they were right based on... who knows. In the end it came down to
two sides:

In support of NOT having such names be allowed:
* every college we can find
* every university we can find
* every source found through Google Scholar
* and even every blogger - mind boggling to see such agreement
* a whole list of specific affects to back the view

In support of having such names be allowed:
* a language designed to be backward compatible with C is a lot like C!
* popular equals best: go QWERTY and teaspoons (in the U.S)!
* code snippets showing case sensitivity can be used

If you think I left some out please let me know.

Remember, I had and have no dog in this race... just noted the support

offered by the "experts" in COLA was weak. And when talking to an actual
expert he did not agree... but that is not proof. I am sure other REAL
experts would.

...

[Steve Carroll]

On Wednesday, March 25, 2015 at 9:52:38 PM UTC-6, Snit wrote:
> On 3/25/15, 8:41 PM, in article mevv4m$960$4...@dont-email.me, "DFS"
> <nos...@dfs.com> wrote:
>
> ...
> >> Ah, found it. Yeah, it was when cc and some others were begging me to
> >> explain the basics of Objective-C and Swift and the like even though I am
> >> not a programmer.
> >
> > Priceless!
> >
> > This is a newsgroup populated with programmers and developers
> > well-versed in C and C++ and Java and object-oriented programming. The
> > very LAST person any of them would ask about the basics of Objective-C
> > and Swift is you.
>
> That was my point. Why was cc begging ME to help him understand programming
> concepts.

Because you took a blue pill with a red pill and got all purple... that's not good.

[GreyCloud]

And back in those days, there was only one font and one size. It took a
while for IBMs printwheel printer technology to offer a way to change out
the print wheel to another font type.

So back then on teletype paper, upper case was a lot easier to read...
character size wasn't that big.

[Snit]

On 3/25/15, 10:25 PM, in article
x8adnVm2e7rJBY7I...@bresnan.com, "GreyCloud" <mi...@cumulus.com>
wrote:

...

> And back in those days, there was only one font and one size. It took a
> while for IBMs printwheel printer technology to offer a way to change out
> the print wheel to another font type.
>
> So back then on teletype paper, upper case was a lot easier to read...
> character size wasn't that big.

Steve Carroll:
-----

Snit, and his "expert" are overlooking one simple fact (among other
things), computers languages exist for humans, not compilers.

-----

DFS and cc are so desperate to catch me in a lie yet they somehow missed
this absolutely absurd claim from Carroll. How does that happen if they are
not just trolling me? LOL!

No, I did not "miss" this fact - it is the fact I have been noting. The list
I keep referencing:

In support of NOT having such names be allowed:
* every college we can find
* every university we can find
* every source found through Google Scholar
* and even every blogger - mind boggling to see such agreement
* a whole list of specific affects to back the view

In support of having such names be allowed:
* a language designed to be backward compatible with C is a lot like C!
* popular equals best: go QWERTY and teaspoons (in the U.S)!
* code snippets showing case sensitivity can be used

Multiple items in that first list speak of why having case sensitivity is
NOT better for humans.

Carroll out and out lied. Oh, or maybe he just made a mistake - I am sure he
will admit to that, right?

LOL!

Nope. And cc and DFS will just let his lie go. Carroll is good at
manipulating people and they have fallen into his BS. They are his clapping
monkeys.

[cc]

On Wednesday, March 25, 2015 at 11:52:38 PM UTC-4, Snit wrote:
> On 3/25/15, 8:41 PM, in article mevv4m$960$4...@dont-email.me, "DFS"
> <nos...@dfs.com> wrote:
>
> ...
> >> Ah, found it. Yeah, it was when cc and some others were begging me to
> >> explain the basics of Objective-C and Swift and the like even though I am
> >> not a programmer.
> >
> > Priceless!
> >
> > This is a newsgroup populated with programmers and developers
> > well-versed in C and C++ and Java and object-oriented programming. The
> > very LAST person any of them would ask about the basics of Objective-C
> > and Swift is you.
>
> That was my point. Why was cc begging ME to help him understand programming
> concepts.
>

You are more delusional than usual. DFS must really be getting to you
with these threads. I never asked, much less begged, you for help
understanding Objective-C or Swift. The quotes you posted were
*statements* by me, most from an entirely different thread. You're
off your rocker.

[chrisv]

>> Kreep wrote:
>>>
>>> Below is the *partial* post from Snit. His anonymous "very experienced
>>> and respected expert programmer" gave some hilarious reasons why
>>> programming languages shouldn't be case sensitive.

The "Snit" thing will continue to insist that he's right, though, in
the face of experienced profressionals telling him he's wrong. Not to
mention that these languages were designed by experts, in the first
place.

"Snit" knows best! It's just absurd that programmers have the choice
of using a case-sensitive language!

Hey, Kreep, why did it take you so many years to figure-out how
ridiculous and relentlessly dishonest the thing is?

You must be very stupid.

--
'Snit gets ignored because many of the "advocates" are too stupid to
do anything but "me too" and leg-hump each other.' - trolling
fsckwit "Ezekiel"

[Peter Köhlmann]

Snit Michael Glasser snotted:

> On 3/25/15, 8:41 PM, in article mevv4m$960$4...@dont-email.me, "DFS"
> <nos...@dfs.com> wrote:
>
> ...
>>> Ah, found it. Yeah, it was when cc and some others were begging me to
>>> explain the basics of Objective-C and Swift and the like even though I
>>> am not a programmer.
>>
>> Priceless!
>>
>> This is a newsgroup populated with programmers and developers
>> well-versed in C and C++ and Java and object-oriented programming. The
>> very LAST person any of them would ask about the basics of Objective-C
>> and Swift is you.
>
> That was my point. Why was cc begging ME to help him understand
> programming concepts.

Another outright lie from the imbecile and serial liar Snit Michael Glasser,
the "Prescott Computer Guy"

[chrisv]

Peter Köhlmann wrote:

> Snit Michael Glasser snotted:

>>
>> That was my point. Why was cc begging ME to help him understand
>> programming concepts.
>
>Another outright lie from the imbecile and serial liar Snit Michael Glasser,
>the "Prescott Computer Guy"

The thing loves to attack others with that type of *completely*
unfounded lie.

--
"I was *repeatedly* asked how I was able to find EXIF data on a jpg."
- Shit, lying shamelessly

[Steve Carroll]

Technological limitations that have been removed.

> Now it has become habit, much like the QWERTY keyboard. Even as keyboards
> change we keep the same basic QWERTY layout.

How many of them are widely used that don't have lower case? Written languages that we speak are case sensitive. You wouldn't specifically and properly write the following:

It's true, frank prefers a ball park Frank as opposed to a Ball Park frank, lightly grilled and served with a little mustard.

or

Many people enjoy Reading in reading when the weather is Nice, which shouldn't be confused with the weather in nice.

Along with the removal of the technological limitations, case sensitivity started being used because computers languages are written for humans, not compilers. Not that I consider him a God-like authority, but if your Dennis Ritchie quote is the one I've seen, it was something along the lines of ...it didn't occur to him to *not* go with case sensitivity. I submit that if you're regularly having case issues with variables or issues with compilers as based on case, your base knowledge is probably lacking.

My take: Good programming has things in common with good music (music performed by musicians); they're both about precision and the ability to be more expressive plays a huge part in it. If I can't fully understand a program I wrote last month, even with the comments, I failed in that expressiveness. In programming, as in music, the goal of attaining a higher level of precision is aided when conventions are established and followed. Conventions are particularly important when there are multiple programmers or musicians involved. Things like case sensitivity tend to foster the use of such conventions, they can act as a reminder to the programmer about the level of precision required to communicate with a machine in the most efficient manner possible (the machine aspect is where it differs from music). Striving for a high level of efficiency is something that's easy to overlook, especially when you're first learning. IMO the importance of a solid foundation can't be overstated when efficiency is the goal.

I appreciate the additional space that case sensitivity provides for identifiers. Of course, my experience with a compiled language is limited so my opinion will differ from someone else's. This brings up the real point here, at the end of the day, that's all these are, opinions. If it were cut and dried, like you seem to want it, there would never have been that 2nd case sensitive language. Aren't the schools you mentioned as "evidence" being hypocritical when they teach case sensitive languages (which are among the most widely used languages out there)? Would it make sense to you that they would be hypocritical in this manner if this was any kind of pressing issue? That case sensitive languages continue to be created is evidence of more than it merely being 'the way we've done it in the past', it's evidence that the advantages outweigh the disadvantages. If this molehill is the mountain you're tying to make it, why are there *any* case sensitive languages still in use? The first one should have provided ample evidence to make a concrete argument against creating a second and the first one would have died out long ago.

[Steve Carroll]

On Thursday, March 26, 2015 at 6:04:40 AM UTC-6, chrisv wrote:
> >> Kreep wrote:
> >>>
> >>> Below is the *partial* post from Snit. His anonymous "very experienced
> >>> and respected expert programmer" gave some hilarious reasons why
> >>> programming languages shouldn't be case sensitive.
>
> The "Snit" thing will continue to insist that he's right, though, in
> the face of experienced profressionals telling him he's wrong. Not to
> mention that these languages were designed by experts, in the first
> place.

What's with you and the "thing" bit anyway? It's pretty obvious he's just looking for attention... of any kind. It's his insane jealously that I don't get, people that know more about something than he does drives him absolutely crazy. That's really what this continued crap with cc is all about, just as it was with Sandman in CSMA and probably is with DFS on some level over database knowledge. When I asked DFS a DB question recently, Snit did the digital equivalent of grabbing the microphone out of his hand ;)

[DFS]

On 3/26/2015 10:48 AM, Steve Carroll wrote:

> I appreciate the additional space that case sensitivity provides for
> identifiers.

Fact is, it's incredibly ridiculous to allow two variables (or words, or
file names, or folder names) to be spelled the same but mean something
different or store something different because of the case of one letter.

recSet
RecSet
completely different cursor variables!


SLE-12-Desktop-DVD-x86_64-GM-DVD1.iso
SLE-12-desktop-DVD-x86_64-GM-DVD1.iso
completely different files!


trash
Trash
Completely different folders!


Case-insensitive and case-preserving is the best (like Windows and VB
does it).


(Quiz: how many case-variations of the spelling of 'trash' are allowed
when creating folders in Linux? In Windows? No fair referring to
wikipedia or any other reference)

[DFS]

On 3/25/2015 11:52 PM, Snit wrote:
> On 3/25/15, 8:41 PM, in article mevv4m$960$4...@dont-email.me, "DFS"
> <nos...@dfs.com> wrote:
>
> ...
>>> Ah, found it. Yeah, it was when cc and some others were begging me to
>>> explain the basics of Objective-C and Swift and the like even though I am
>>> not a programmer.
>>
>> Priceless!
>>
>> This is a newsgroup populated with programmers and developers
>> well-versed in C and C++ and Java and object-oriented programming. The
>> very LAST person any of them would ask about the basics of Objective-C
>> and Swift is you.
>
> That was my point. Why was cc begging ME to help him understand programming
> concepts.

He wasn't. Nobody was. Ever.

[Steve Carroll]

On Thursday, March 26, 2015 at 5:44:06 AM UTC-6, cc wrote:
> On Wednesday, March 25, 2015 at 11:52:38 PM UTC-4, Snit wrote:
> > On 3/25/15, 8:41 PM, in article mevv4m$960$4...@dont-email.me, "DFS"
> > <nos...@dfs.com> wrote:
> >
> > ...
> > >> Ah, found it. Yeah, it was when cc and some others were begging me to
> > >> explain the basics of Objective-C and Swift and the like even though I am
> > >> not a programmer.
> > >
> > > Priceless!
> > >
> > > This is a newsgroup populated with programmers and developers
> > > well-versed in C and C++ and Java and object-oriented programming. The
> > > very LAST person any of them would ask about the basics of Objective-C
> > > and Swift is you.
> >
> > That was my point. Why was cc begging ME to help him understand programming
> > concepts.
> >
>
> You are more delusional than usual.

How can you tell?

[Snit]

On 3/26/15, 5:39 AM, in article v8v7hat2je66qrpnm...@4ax.com,

"chrisv" <chr...@nospam.invalid> wrote:

> Peter Köhlmann wrote:
>
>> Snit Michael Glasser snotted:
>>>
>>> That was my point. Why was cc begging ME to help him understand
>>> programming concepts.
>>
>> Another outright lie from the imbecile and serial liar Snit Michael Glasser,
>> the "Prescott Computer Guy"
>
> The thing loves to attack others with that type of *completely*
> unfounded lie.

I gave specifics where he did. But don't let that kill your trolling.

[Snit]

On 3/26/15, 5:04 AM, in article b2t7hadg97o1h2t6q...@4ax.com,

"chrisv" <chr...@nospam.invalid> wrote:

>>> Kreep wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Below is the *partial* post from Snit. His anonymous "very experienced
>>>> and respected expert programmer" gave some hilarious reasons why
>>>> programming languages shouldn't be case sensitive.
>
> The "Snit" thing will continue to insist that he's right, though, in
> the face of experienced profressionals telling him he's wrong. Not to
> mention that these languages were designed by experts, in the first
> place.
>
> "Snit" knows best! It's just absurd that programmers have the choice
> of using a case-sensitive language!
>
> Hey, Kreep, why did it take you so many years to figure-out how
> ridiculous and relentlessly dishonest the thing is?
>
> You must be very stupid.

In support of case insensitivity:

* every college we can find
* every university we can find
* every source found through Google Scholar
* and even every blogger - mind boggling to see such agreement
* a whole list of specific affects to back the view

In support of case sensitivity:

* a language designed to be backward compatible with C is a lot like C!
* popular equals best: go QWERTY and teaspoons (in the U.S)!
* code snippets showing case sensitivity can be used

If you think I left some out please let me know what they are.

Remember, I had and have no dog in this race... just noted the support
offered by the "experts" in COLA was weak. And when talking to an actual
expert he did not agree... but that is not proof. I am sure other REAL
experts would.

[Snit]

On 3/26/15, 4:44 AM, in article
00f80ac1-a5d0-4960...@googlegroups.com, "cc"

I gave specific examples of you doing so in terms of Objective-C and Swift.
You kept asking me about them and why Apple did what they did.

What value is your denial in the face of that? Well, other than to troll,
which is all you are doing. And when faced with the quotes you just snip
them and pretend they do not exist. Useless.

[Snit]

On 3/26/15, 8:11 AM, in article mf17i4$mjg$4...@dont-email.me, "DFS"

cc was completely lost. Here is the most amusing example... and my response
mocking him.

cc:
-----
Why would they be so popular if it had alot of disadvantages? Why
would all the insanely smart language designers of the past few
decades choose, and continue to choose, to create case sensitivite
languages? Why would Apple and NeXT, which did not like the
current state of languages, choose a little used, *case
sensitive*, combination of smalltalk and C? You're saying they
made a mistake not going with a case insensitive language. Well
they had the resources, and obviously the desire to use what they
thought was a better language (even if no one else uses it), so
why did they pick a case sensitive language that you alledge has
so many disadvantages? You keep running from these points. Of
course the answer is simple: Case sensitive languages are popular
by far because case sensitivity is better than case insensitivity.
This isn't music or movies, this is science and engineering. It's
popular for a reason.
-----
You don't understand why case sensitive languages are better. We
get that. You're an idiot. You also have an idiot, liar, friend
who thinks compiled microcontroller code is affect by case
sensitivity, lied about .NET guidelines and tools, and who duped
you into thinking he was an expert. So you have that going against
you too. You keep on thinking that case insensitive languages are
best and the world will continue to ignore you and teach, learn,
design, and use case sensitive languages as a vast majority.
-----

Snit, mocking cc's complete lack of ability to use logic:
-----
Why would QWERTY keyboards be so popular if it had a lot of
disadvantages? Why would all the insanely smart keyboard designers
of the past few decades choose, and continue to choose, to create
QWERTY keyboard layouts? Why would Apple and NeXT, which did not
like the current state of keyboard and designed their own, choose
to use a QWERTY layout? Anyone who disagrees is saying they made a
mistake not going with a Dvorak or something else. Well they had
the resources, and obviously the desire to use what they thought
was a better keyboard layout (even if no one else uses it), so why
did they pick a QWERTY layout that some allege has so many
disadvantages?

Anyone who disagrees is just running from these points. Of course
the answer is simple: QWERTY layouts are popular by far because
QWERTY is better than Dvorak or any other option. This isn't music
or movies, this is science and engineering. It's popular for a
reason.
-----
Some don't understand why QWERTY layouts are better. I get that.
Such people are idiots. And if anyone claims they have spoken to
an expert who disagrees than that expert is an idiot, too. They
can keep on thinking that Dvorak or other layout are best and the
world will continue to ignore you and teach, learn, design, and
use QWERTY layouts the vast majority of the time.
-----

[Steve Carroll]

On Thursday, March 26, 2015 at 9:11:36 AM UTC-6, DFS wrote:
> On 3/26/2015 10:48 AM, Steve Carroll wrote:
>
> > I appreciate the additional space that case sensitivity provides for
> > identifiers.
>
> Fact is, it's incredibly ridiculous to allow two variables (or words, or
> file names, or folder names) to be spelled the same but mean something
> different or store something different because of the case of one letter.

I couldn't disagree more... it's not ridiculous at all if you value the highest degree of expressiveness you can obtain, an idea that is central to creating a language. You're free to hold whatever opinion you'd like but, that I've seen, only people who don't value the advantages offered will be the ones complaining the most (for an example in COLA, I haven't seen anyone complain about this as much as Snit has), for the rest it's not an issue. That's true for pretty much everything, really, no reason why it'd be different for case sensitivity in programming that I can see.

> recSet
> RecSet
> completely different cursor variables!

I understand but I'm not likely to change my opinion on this. I prefer using a language that's similar to the one I write in my spoken language. Why? Because I'm *already* thinking case sensitive, I grew up with it. Why would I want to toss something so base to my knowledge when I'm trying to learn a new language that is fairly complex, especially when I can see and utilize the advantages of adhering to one of the aspects I grew up with? That doesn't make sense to me. YMMV... you eat pineapple and mayo, fer crissakes... it probably varies a lot ;)

> SLE-12-Desktop-DVD-x86_64-GM-DVD1.iso
> SLE-12-desktop-DVD-x86_64-GM-DVD1.iso
> completely different files!

*It makes a little more sense for a filing system, not for a language.

> trash
> Trash
> Completely different folders!
>
>
> Case-insensitive and case-preserving is the best (like Windows and VB
> does it).

Then why do so many case sensitive languages exist? You agree with Snit's suggestion that 'it's the way we've done it'? Do you *really* believe that the only reason? I highly doubt that.

> (Quiz: how many case-variations of the spelling of 'trash' are allowed
> when creating folders in Linux? In Windows? No fair referring to
> wikipedia or any other reference)

*See above

[cc]

On Thursday, March 26, 2015 at 11:55:38 AM UTC-4, Snit wrote:
> On 3/26/15, 8:11 AM, in article mf17i4$mjg$4...@dont-email.me, "DFS"
> <nos...@dfs.com> wrote:
>
> > On 3/25/2015 11:52 PM, Snit wrote:
> >> On 3/25/15, 8:41 PM, in article mevv4m$960$4...@dont-email.me, "DFS"
> >> <nos...@dfs.com> wrote:
> >>
> >> ...
> >>>> Ah, found it. Yeah, it was when cc and some others were begging me to
> >>>> explain the basics of Objective-C and Swift and the like even though I am
> >>>> not a programmer.
> >>>
> >>> Priceless!
> >>>
> >>> This is a newsgroup populated with programmers and developers
> >>> well-versed in C and C++ and Java and object-oriented programming. The
> >>> very LAST person any of them would ask about the basics of Objective-C
> >>> and Swift is you.
> >>
> >> That was my point. Why was cc begging ME to help him understand programming
> >> concepts.
> >
> > He wasn't. Nobody was. Ever.
>
> cc was completely lost.

If you believe that, fine. You're an idiot, but you're entitled to your
opinion. However, not once in those long quotes was I ever begging or
even asking you to help me understand programming concepts. That is
what you were, and still are, lying about.

[Snit]

On 3/26/15, 8:11 AM, in article mf17hi$mjg$2...@dont-email.me, "DFS"

<nos...@dfs.com> wrote:

> On 3/26/2015 10:48 AM, Steve Carroll wrote:
>
>> I appreciate the additional space that case sensitivity provides for
>> identifiers.
>
> Fact is, it's incredibly ridiculous to allow two variables (or words, or
> file names, or folder names) to be spelled the same but mean something
> different or store something different because of the case of one letter.

Developers go through *extra* work to make these things work like people
think... yet you refuse to call out Carroll on his lie:

Steve Carroll:
-----
Snit, and his "expert" are overlooking one simple fact (among other
things), computers languages exist for humans, not compilers.
-----

> recSet
> RecSet
> completely different cursor variables!
>
>
> SLE-12-Desktop-DVD-x86_64-GM-DVD1.iso
> SLE-12-desktop-DVD-x86_64-GM-DVD1.iso
> completely different files!
>
>
> trash
> Trash
> Completely different folders!

Excellent examples.

> Case-insensitive and case-preserving is the best (like Windows and VB
> does it).
>
>
> (Quiz: how many case-variations of the spelling of 'trash' are allowed
> when creating folders in Linux? In Windows? No fair referring to
> wikipedia or any other reference)

[-hh]

Steve Carroll wrote:
> DFS wrote:
> > [...]

> > Case-insensitive and case-preserving is the best (like
> > Windows and VB does it).
>
> Then why do so many case sensitive languages exist?

IMO, probably because it less technically challenging
to accomplish in comparison to 'case-insensitive while
being case-preserving'.

Yes, its an opinion based on Occam's Razor...this one
is merely the observation that programmers are lazy when
they can get away with it.


-hh

[Steve Carroll]

On Thursday, March 26, 2015 at 10:50:30 AM UTC-6, Snit wrote:
> On 3/26/15, 8:11 AM, in article mf17hi$mjg$2...@dont-email.me, "DFS"
> <nos...@dfs.com> wrote:
>
> > On 3/26/2015 10:48 AM, Steve Carroll wrote:
> >
> >> I appreciate the additional space that case sensitivity provides for
> >> identifiers.
> >
> > Fact is, it's incredibly ridiculous to allow two variables (or words, or
> > file names, or folder names) to be spelled the same but mean something
> > different or store something different because of the case of one letter.
>
> Developers go through *extra* work to make these things work like people
> think...

People 'think' case sensitive, it's what we all grew up with so it's not really "work" to continue to "think" like that. Let's get Snit-like silly here for a second... though, this will still make more sense than many of your "arguments" ;)

Why, do you suppose, did they use the full alphabet back when all they had were upper case characters? Why not use just a part of it, say, the vowels? Isn't anything more just creating "*extra* work"?

Your goal should be to produce the cleanest, most efficient code when you're programming but you won't get very far by making the act itself as easy as you can possibly make it. What I'm saying is, if you're myopically focused on the act itself, then the end result suffers. I don't recall the name of the principle but it's simple... if I create a language easy enough for any 6 year old to understand, it's not going to be adopted by serious programmers for an obvious reason. There are tradeoffs involved here... and this one starts by asking the obvious question:

Why use only a subset of what we grew up with (and tossing a concept with it), especially when we know we wish to incorporate as much expressiveness into a language as we can while still having it be accessible?

This limitation made more sense when resources were limited but it doesn't make as much sense now, which is why we find case sensitive languages alive and well. They don't exist for the reason you said (historical), they exist because the advantages outweigh the disadvantages in the mind's of people that create and use them.

> yet you refuse to call out Carroll on his lie:
>
> Steve Carroll:
> -----
> Snit, and his "expert" are overlooking one simple fact (among other
> things), computers languages exist for humans, not compilers.
> -----
>
> > recSet
> > RecSet
> > completely different cursor variables!
> >
> >
> > SLE-12-Desktop-DVD-x86_64-GM-DVD1.iso
> > SLE-12-desktop-DVD-x86_64-GM-DVD1.iso
> > completely different files!
> >
> >
> > trash
> > Trash
> > Completely different folders!
>
> Excellent examples.

Of a file system (not a programming language).

[Steve Carroll]

I see that as an oversimplification. Language is about expression, while it's fun to toss around the age old idea that a programmer is inherently lazy, the ones who write computer languages and complex programs clearly aren't. It takes a lot of work to get really good with this stuff and, once you are, I suspect the idea of limiting your expression probably holds little appeal if you're sitting down to create a computer language you'd like people to adopt.

[owl]

DFS <nos...@dfs.com> wrote:
> On 3/26/2015 10:48 AM, Steve Carroll wrote:

>> I appreciate the additional space that case sensitivity provides for
>> identifiers.

> Fact is, it's incredibly ridiculous to allow two variables (or words, or
> file names, or folder names) to be spelled the same but mean something
> different or store something different because of the case of one letter.

> recSet
> RecSet
> completely different cursor variables!

RekSet

> SLE-12-Desktop-DVD-x86_64-GM-DVD1.iso
> SLE-12-desktop-DVD-x86_64-GM-DVD1.iso
> completely different files!

SLE-Twelve-Desktop-DVD-x86_64-GM-DVD1.iso

> trash
> Trash
> Completely different folders!

Why not? They have different names.

owl@thinkpad:~$ echo "trash" | hexdump
0000000 7274 7361 0a68
0000006
owl@thinkpad:~$ echo "Trash" | hexdump
0000000 7254 7361 0a68
0000006
owl@thinkpad:~$

> Case-insensitive and case-preserving is the best (like Windows and VB
> does it).

No, that's retarded.

[Snit]

On 3/26/15, 10:36 AM, in article
2ca2dfd3-3864-4346...@googlegroups.com, "-hh"

<recscub...@huntzinger.com> wrote:

> Steve Carroll wrote:
>> DFS wrote:
>>> [...]
>>> Case-insensitive and case-preserving is the best (like
>>> Windows and VB does it).
>>
>> Then why do so many case sensitive languages exist?
>
> IMO, probably because it less technically challenging
> to accomplish in comparison to 'case-insensitive while
> being case-preserving'.

That and it is by habit. Sort of like QWERTY.

We went over this before and the evidence showed:

In support of case insensitivity:
* every college we can find
* every university we can find
* every source found through Google Scholar
* and even every blogger - mind boggling to see such agreement
* a whole list of specific affects to back the view

In support of case sensitivity:
* a language designed to be backward compatible with C is a lot like C!
* popular equals best: go QWERTY and teaspoons (in the U.S)!
* code snippets showing case sensitivity can be used

If you think I left some out please let me know what they are.

> Yes, its an opinion based on Occam's Razor...this one
> is merely the observation that programmers are lazy when
> they can get away with it.

Pretty much... but then so are typists. :)

[Snit]

On 3/26/15, 11:14 AM, in article bvhdu...@rooftop.invalid, "owl"

<o...@rooftop.invalid> wrote:

> DFS <nos...@dfs.com> wrote:
>> On 3/26/2015 10:48 AM, Steve Carroll wrote:
>
>>> I appreciate the additional space that case sensitivity provides for
>>> identifiers.
>
>> Fact is, it's incredibly ridiculous to allow two variables (or words, or
>> file names, or folder names) to be spelled the same but mean something
>> different or store something different because of the case of one letter.
>
>> recSet
>> RecSet
>> completely different cursor variables!
>
> RekSet
>
>> SLE-12-Desktop-DVD-x86_64-GM-DVD1.iso
>> SLE-12-desktop-DVD-x86_64-GM-DVD1.iso
>> completely different files!
>
> SLE-Twelve-Desktop-DVD-x86_64-GM-DVD1.iso

Oh, case insensitivity with case preservation does not solve ALL possible
confusion, only some.

>> trash
>> Trash
>> Completely different folders!
>
> Why not? They have different names.
>
> owl@thinkpad:~$ echo "trash" | hexdump
> 0000000 7274 7361 0a68
> 0000006
> owl@thinkpad:~$ echo "Trash" | hexdump
> 0000000 7254 7361 0a68
> 0000006
> owl@thinkpad:~$
>
>
>> Case-insensitive and case-preserving is the best (like Windows and VB
>> does it).
>
> No, that's retarded.

In support of case insensitivity:
* every college we can find
* every university we can find
* every source found through Google Scholar
* and even every blogger - mind boggling to see such agreement
* a whole list of specific affects to back the view

In support of case sensitivity:
* a language designed to be backward compatible with C is a lot like C!
* popular equals best: go QWERTY and teaspoons (in the U.S)!
* code snippets showing case sensitivity can be used

If you think I left some out please let me know what they are.

[Ezekiel]

"-hh" <recscub...@huntzinger.com> wrote in message
news:2ca2dfd3-3864-4346...@googlegroups.com...

There's no definitive rule whether or not a computer language is case
sensitive or not. Most programming languages are case sensitive while others
are not.

A programming language imposes many rules on programmers. Rules on how to
declare variables, rules on functions, rules on assignment, rules on testing
for equality and inequality and rules for everything else that is and isn't
allowed by the language. Case sensitivity is just another one of those
rules. The people who designed the language made a decision at one time how
the language handles case and that became the rule.

There's no reason why it *must* be one way or another. Some of it is
probably individual preference. The people who design new language are most
likely experienced with other languages and those languages were probably
case-sensitive. Their prior experience with case sensitive languages
influenced them to use the same rule in their language.

Languages should be consistent. So if variables are case insensitive then
identifiers, key-words and functions should also be case insensitive.
Consistency in variable names, function names, etc makes code neater as in
easier to read which reduces mistakes. Case sensitivity enforces
consistency - allowing any case does not.

Aside from a unusual personal preference, there's no technical advantage to
being case insensitive. There are some technical advantages to being case
sensitive. One example would be interfacing with existing languages (calling
or being called from) that are already case sensitive. It's easier
interfacing a (new) case sensitive language into a world that's dominated by
other case sensitive languages.

[Peter Köhlmann]

Snit wrote:

> On 3/26/15, 5:39 AM, in article
> v8v7hat2je66qrpnm...@4ax.com, "chrisv"
> <chr...@nospam.invalid> wrote:
>
>> Peter Köhlmann wrote:
>>
>>> Snit Michael Glasser snotted:
>>>>
>>>> That was my point. Why was cc begging ME to help him understand
>>>> programming concepts.
>>>
>>> Another outright lie from the imbecile and serial liar Snit Michael
>>> Glasser, the "Prescott Computer Guy"
>>
>> The thing loves to attack others with that type of *completely*
>> unfounded lie.
>
> I gave specifics where he did. But don't let that kill your trolling.
>

Translation: You misquoted and where even that wasn't possible, you made it
up completely out of full cloth

[Snit]

On 3/26/15, 12:09 PM, in article mf1ldv$n1j$1...@dont-email.me, "Ezekiel"

Right... much like people use QWERTY. It is not necessarily the "best" but
even when we make new keyboards we keep many of the same conventions.

> Languages should be consistent. So if variables are case insensitive then
> identifiers, key-words and functions should also be case insensitive.
> Consistency in variable names, function names, etc makes code neater as in
> easier to read which reduces mistakes. Case sensitivity enforces
> consistency - allowing any case does not.
>
> Aside from a unusual personal preference, there's no technical advantage to
> being case insensitive. There are some technical advantages to being case
> sensitive. One example would be interfacing with existing languages (calling
> or being called from) that are already case sensitive. It's easier
> interfacing a (new) case sensitive language into a world that's dominated by
> other case sensitive languages.

Fair enough... and added to my list of support areas:

In support of case insensitivity:
* every college we can find
* every university we can find
* every source found through Google Scholar
* and even every blogger - mind boggling to see such agreement
* a whole list of specific affects to back the view

In support of case sensitivity:
* a language designed to be backward compatible with C is a lot like C!
* popular equals best: go QWERTY and teaspoons (in the U.S)!

* code snippets showing case sensitivity can be used
* makes interfacing with other common languages.

[Steve Carroll]

On Thursday, March 26, 2015 at 12:45:34 PM UTC-6, Snit wrote:
> On 3/26/15, 10:36 AM, in article
> 2ca2dfd3-3864-4346...@googlegroups.com, "-hh"
> <recscub...@huntzinger.com> wrote:
>
> > Steve Carroll wrote:
> >> DFS wrote:
> >>> [...]
> >>> Case-insensitive and case-preserving is the best (like
> >>> Windows and VB does it).
> >>
> >> Then why do so many case sensitive languages exist?
> >
> > IMO, probably because it less technically challenging
> > to accomplish in comparison to 'case-insensitive while
> > being case-preserving'.
>
> That and it is by habit. Sort of like QWERTY.

Creating a language is one thing, adopting it for widespread use is quite another. Feel free to explain why these more expressive, case sensitive "*extra* work" creating languages have continued to be adopted *en masse* and for decades any time you'd like. Why are so many (all?) of the newer languages case sensitive? The answer is simple... the advantages outweigh the disadvantages.

> We went over this before and the evidence showed:
>
> In support of case insensitivity:
> * every college we can find
> * every university we can find

Yet, every school you'll find worth going to teaches... wait for it... case sensitive languages. What charlatans!

> * every source found through Google Scholar
> * and even every blogger - mind boggling to see such agreement

Who did the searching, you? LOL!

> * a whole list of specific affects to back the view

Like the vast majority of languages created in the last, oh... 25 years, you mean? They are all case insensi... oh wait, they're mostly (all?) case sensitive.

Your view: People just keep blindly keep creating computer languages with additional expressiveness not because they actually find it useful, it's because of a "habit"... 'historically, we've always done it like this'.

Gee, your argument is just *so* compelling, Snit! I'm going to go toss all my case sensitive code right now and never use those terrible languages again ;)

The reader of your view is supposed to forget the fact that, historically, people grew up with case sensitivity... not like it's a foreign concept.

> In support of case sensitivity:
> * a language designed to be backward compatible with C is a lot like C!
> * popular equals best: go QWERTY and teaspoons (in the U.S)!
> * code snippets showing case sensitivity can be used
>
> If you think I left some out please let me know what they are.

If you're really interested in this, why not read some forums where conformation bias isn't your goal? But we know the answer, don't we? Because you're only interested in being "right". Your problem with that here is... this isn't a right or wrong scenario the way you're trying to paint it and 'appealing to authority' on a highly opinionated matter is what fools do.

[GreyCloud]

Why is snit talking about Objective-C and swift when he's already
acknowledged he doesn't know programming?

[Steve Carroll]

On Thursday, March 26, 2015 at 1:08:38 PM UTC-6, Ezekiel wrote:
> "-hh" <recscub...@huntzinger.com> wrote in message
> news:2ca2dfd3-3864-4346...@googlegroups.com...
> > Steve Carroll wrote:
> >> DFS wrote:
> >> > [...]
> >> > Case-insensitive and case-preserving is the best (like
> >> > Windows and VB does it).
> >>
> >> Then why do so many case sensitive languages exist?
> >
> > IMO, probably because it less technically challenging
> > to accomplish in comparison to 'case-insensitive while
> > being case-preserving'.
> >
> > Yes, its an opinion based on Occam's Razor...this one
> > is merely the observation that programmers are lazy when
> > they can get away with it.
> >
>
> There's no definitive rule whether or not a computer language is case
> sensitive or not. Most programming languages are case sensitive while others
> are not.
>
> A programming language imposes many rules on programmers. Rules on how to
> declare variables, rules on functions, rules on assignment, rules on testing
> for equality and inequality and rules for everything else that is and isn't
> allowed by the language. Case sensitivity is just another one of those
> rules.

Exactly.

> The people who designed the language made a decision at one time how
> the language handles case and that became the rule.

And they had reasons for doing so that consisted of more than just:

'that's the way we've always done it'.

> There's no reason why it *must* be one way or another.

But there are reasons why you might want to do it one way over another.

> Some of it is
> probably individual preference. The people who design new language are most
> likely experienced with other languages and those languages were probably
> case-sensitive. Their prior experience with case sensitive languages
> influenced them to use the same rule in their language.

A thing that likely wouldn't be done over and over if there were no other advantages.

> Languages should be consistent. So if variables are case insensitive then
> identifiers, key-words and functions should also be case insensitive.
> Consistency in variable names, function names, etc makes code neater as in
> easier to read which reduces mistakes. Case sensitivity enforces
> consistency - allowing any case does not.

I actually like the 'enforcing' aspect of it, I don't consider it to be *extra* work (as Snit suggested).

> Aside from a unusual personal preference, there's no technical advantage to
> being case insensitive. There are some technical advantages to being case
> sensitive. One example would be interfacing with existing languages (calling
> or being called from) that are already case sensitive. It's easier
> interfacing a (new) case sensitive language into a world that's dominated by
> other case sensitive languages.

A Quora post which posed the question:

"Why is Java case-sensitive? Is there any advantage?"

The reply...

"Better to ask the opposite question: why have case insensitivity? It turns out that case insensitivity is more complex than you might imagine -- in plain old english 7-bit ASCII-land it's easy to define and everyone agrees on what it means. However we live in a world of UTF-8/UNICODE and hundreds of languages many of which don't use latin characters. In that context 'case insensitivity' loses much of its meaning, and certainly becomes harder to define clearly. So, since case insensitivity is something of a pain to pin down, the natural tendency to make things simple and easy means you don't want to have it unless there's some very good reason to do so. No such very good reason exists today for programming language identifiers. In the distant past there was a good reason, which was that there were machines and operating systems that did not have lower case, and there was a concern that case sensitivity might lead to interoperability issues with those machines."

[Steve Carroll]

You know why ;)

[GreyCloud]

DFS wrote:

> On 3/26/2015 10:48 AM, Steve Carroll wrote:
>
>> I appreciate the additional space that case sensitivity provides for
>> identifiers.
>
> Fact is, it's incredibly ridiculous to allow two variables (or words, or
> file names, or folder names) to be spelled the same but mean something
> different or store something different because of the case of one letter.
>
> recSet
> RecSet
> completely different cursor variables!
>
>
> SLE-12-Desktop-DVD-x86_64-GM-DVD1.iso
> SLE-12-desktop-DVD-x86_64-GM-DVD1.iso
> completely different files!
>
>
> trash
> Trash
> Completely different folders!
>
>
> Case-insensitive and case-preserving is the best (like Windows and VB
> does it).
>
>

This was also the case for VMS a long time ago as well.
It was less agravating when sitting at a terminal and make one typo mistake
trying to change to another directory, like it was on the older UNIX
systems.

[GreyCloud]

Erm, VMS was that way as well. It actually worked out for the better in an
environment that just used terminals.
OS X default is that way too. Sun Solaris isn't, but the long file names
were a bitch under the usual SH (sh) shell. It didn't have command line
history.

[JEDIDIAH]

On 2015-03-26, Steve Carroll <fretw...@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Thursday, March 26, 2015 at 12:45:34 PM UTC-6, Snit wrote:
>> On 3/26/15, 10:36 AM, in article
>> 2ca2dfd3-3864-4346...@googlegroups.com, "-hh"
>> <recscub...@huntzinger.com> wrote:
>>
>> > Steve Carroll wrote:
>> >> DFS wrote:

[deletia]

>> We went over this before and the evidence showed:
>>
>> In support of case insensitivity:
>> * every college we can find
>> * every university we can find

Clearly you didn't search much.

[deletia]

I suspect that when it comes to language design, this "crucial issue"
doesn't even blip on anyone's radar. If you brought it up, everyone in the
room would probably look at you like you suddenly grew a second head.

They will be all going "Who let this amateur into the room!".

--
"If I give you a pfennig, you will be one pfennig richer and
I'll be one pfennig poorer. But if I give you an idea, you will |||
have a new idea, but I shall still have it, too." / | \
~ Albert Einstein

[owl]

Probably why NT is so retarded.

> It actually worked out for the better in an
> environment that just used terminals.
> OS X default is that way too.

Need I say "retarded"?

> Sun Solaris isn't, but the long file names
> were a bitch under the usual SH (sh) shell. It didn't have command line
> history.

What they needed was a "~"

[Chris Ahlstrom]

JEDIDIAH wrote this copyrighted missive and expects royalties:

> On 2015-03-26, Steve Carroll <fretw...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> On Thursday, March 26, 2015 at 12:45:34 PM UTC-6, Snit wrote:
>
>>> We went over this before and the evidence showed:
>>>
>>> In support of case insensitivity:
>>> * every college we can find
>>> * every university we can find

*LMAO*

All those colleges and universities likely teach C, C++, or Java...
case-sensitive languages.

Snit... the FORTRAN of trolls. :-D

> Clearly you didn't search much.
>
> [deletia]
>
> I suspect that when it comes to language design, this "crucial issue"
> doesn't even blip on anyone's radar. If you brought it up, everyone in the
> room would probably look at you like you suddenly grew a second head.
>
> They will be all going "Who let this amateur into the room!".

He's nothing but a somewhat clever k00k. Mad as a hatter.

--
A CODE OF ETHICAL BEHAVIOR FOR PATIENTS:

1. DO NOT EXPECT YOUR DOCTOR TO SHARE YOUR DISCOMFORT.
Involvement with the patient's suffering might cause him to lose
valuable scientific objectivity.

2. BE CHEERFUL AT ALL TIMES.
Your doctor leads a busy and trying life and requires all the
gentleness and reassurance he can get.

3. TRY TO SUFFER FROM THE DISEASE FOR WHICH YOU ARE BEING TREATED.
Remember that your doctor has a professional reputation to uphold.

[Slimer]

On 2015-03-26 5:48 PM, Chris Ahlstrom wrote:

< a bunch of lies and bad jokes >

You're an idiot, Chris AssStorm.

--
Slimer
OpenMedia, GreenPeace Supporter & SPCA Paw Partner
Encrypt.

[Peter Köhlmann]

Slimer wrote:

> On 2015-03-26 5:48 PM, Chris Ahlstrom wrote:
>
> < a bunch of lies and bad jokes >
>
> You're an idiot, Chris AssStorm.
>

Defending that imbecile Snit Michael Glasser again, you cretinous POS?

[Steve Carroll]

On Wednesday, March 25, 2015 at 9:43:12 PM UTC-6, DFS wrote:

(snip)

> triggers (actions that occur in response to table operations)
> CREATE OR REPLACE TRIGGER XXX.BI_GET_NEXT_ORDER_ID
> BEFORE INSERT
> ON TT_ORDER
> FOR EACH ROW
> BEGIN
> IF :new.ORDER_ID IS NULL THEN
> :new.ORDER_ID := NEXTORDERID;
> END IF;
> END;
>
>
> There. Now you're 50% Oracle DBA, 50% asylum escapee.

I've never used this but it seems it's not all that different from MySQL. If he's going the IT route, (what he has his Masters degree in), at the least, he should probably develop a passing familiarity with the basics. If he was going to focus more on web development (what he does for his business) I'd suggest he work with MySQL because a *lot* of CMS installations still use it despite its relative shortcomings. They are both similar enough and so widely used that, either way, he really can't go wrong.

[Chris Ahlstrom]

Peter Köhlmann wrote this copyrighted missive and expects royalties:

Don't worry, Peter. "sLIEmore" is self-nuking. He's the kind of guy
whom you just take a look at and say to yourself "He just screams
'asshole'".

I'll bet he wears his shirts unbuttoned to his navel.

--
A Linux machine! because a 486 is a terrible thing to waste!
(By j...@wintermute.ucr.edu, Joe Sloan)

[Slimer]

On 2015-03-26 6:10 PM, Peter Köhlmann wrote:

< nothing useful >

He was reasonable for exactly _one_ post. I enjoyed that version of
Köhlmann and it's too bad I don't see it very often.

[Slimer]

On 2015-03-26 8:23 PM, Chris Ahlstrom wrote:

< a bad joke that nobody laughed at >

If you must know (to complete your wet dreams about me), I tend to wear
a lot of slim-fit shirts whenever the weather improves. I like that they
show off the physique that I work so hard to maintain and the females
seem to enjoy staring at me whenever I have one on.

[GreyCloud]

Are you still using a Mac?


--
When told the reason for daylight savings time the Old
Indian said, "Only the government would believe that you
could cut a foot off the top of a blanket, sew it to the
bottom, and have a longer blanket."

[Jeff-Relf.Me]

 
PDP-11 Unix and c began in 1972.

At the time, case·sensitivity made sense.
Today, not so much.

DFS wrote:
> > > Case-insensitive and case-preserving is the best
> > > ( like Windows and VB does it ).

DFS is right because you should be able
to camel case the "all lower case" file names
that countless idiots are spitting out.

If you're part of a programming team,
and you can't search and replace other's variable names,
then you want "case-insensitive and case-preserving" variables.

[Snit]

On 3/26/15, 2:48 PM, in article mf1uq8$u47$1...@dont-email.me, "Chris Ahlstrom"

<OFee...@teleworm.us> wrote:

> JEDIDIAH wrote this copyrighted missive and expects royalties:
>
>> On 2015-03-26, Steve Carroll <fretw...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>> On Thursday, March 26, 2015 at 12:45:34 PM UTC-6, Snit wrote:
>>
>>>> We went over this before and the evidence showed:
>>>>
>>>> In support of case insensitivity:
>>>> * every college we can find
>>>> * every university we can find
>
> *LMAO*
>
> All those colleges and universities likely teach C, C++, or Java...
> case-sensitive languages.
>
> Snit... the FORTRAN of trolls. :-D

Ah, yes, because I have been pushing FORTRAN so heavily or denying that
colleges teach C and Java.

Sigh.

I do wish the herd could strive to be honest.

From an older post:
--------
* Every college and university found to take a stance on the issue
(I have provided full links elsewhere - if you want them just ask):

Clark Atlanta University
Dublin City University
Eastern Michigan University
GeorgeTown University
Ithaca College
Michigan State University
Purdue University
Southeastern Louisiana University
Southern Illinois University
University of Hawaii
University of Maine
University of Maryland, Baltimore County
Virginia Tech
Western Michigan University

* Every source found through Google Scholar:

Advanced CORBA(R) Programming with C++
Essential C++ by Jarrell C. Grout, Robert G. Strader,
and John B. Hanks
<http://goo.gl/2AR9ZF>
The case for Ada at the USAF academy
Abstract available here:
<http://dl.acm.org/citation.cfm?id=958430>

* Every blogger writing about the topic:

<http://www.somethinkodd.com/oddthinking/?p=110>
<http://www.somethinkodd.com/oddthinking/?p=114>
<http://lambda-the-ultimate.org/node/1114>
<http://goo.gl/g8FbNF>
<http://goo.gl/5zT2Cn>

Now of course the final categories, bloggers, are less authoritative than
the other two, but it is truly amazing how there is not a single
counter-example that has been shown in *any* of the categories. I expected
to find *some* reference disagreeing... and still expect I or someone else
will.

And if this does happen you can bet that one source will be deemed by those
who find it convenient to trump all the others. :)
---------------------------------------------------------------

And the links for the colleges I refer to above (and from another post):
---------------------------------------------------------------
<http://www.cs.georgetown.edu/~mahe/252/notes/ch5.ppt>
<http://www.ithaca.edu/barr/Student/CS321/Slides/Ch5.ppt>
<https://cs.wmich.edu/~gupta/teaching/cs4850/sumII07/lecture%20notes/lec06-7
%20names%20bindings%20type-checking%20scope%200713-071607.pdf>
<http://www2.southeastern.edu/Academics/Faculty/galkadi/401/notes/chapter5.d
oc>
<http://www.cis.cau.edu/courses/476/ppt/pl10ch5.ppt >
-----
Case sensitivity
- Disadvantage: readability (names that look alike are different)
* Names in the C-based languages are case sensitive
* Names in others are not
* Worse in C++, Java, and C# because predefined names are mixed
case (e.g. IndexOutOfBoundsException)
-----

<http://www.cse.msu.edu/~cse452/Fall2004/Lectures/04-binding.ppt>
-----
Case sensitivity
* Disadvantage:
- readability (names that look alike are different)
- writability (must remember exact spelling)
-----


<http://www.emunix.emich.edu/~evett/ProgrammingLanguages/LectureNotes/ProgLa
ng4.pdf>
<http://courses.cs.vt.edu/~cs3304/Spring00/notes/Chapter-4/Names.pdf>
<http://www2.cs.siu.edu/~rahimi/cs311/slides/Ch05.ppt>
-----
* Disadvantage: readability (names that look alike are different)
* Worse in Modula-2 because predefined names are mixed case (e.g.
WriteCard)
* C, C++, Ja va, and Modula-2 names are case sensitive
* The names in other languages are not
-----

<http://www2.hawaii.edu/~janst/313/slides/5.1%20Scope.ppt>
-----
* Disadvantage: readability
- names that look alike are different
* C++ and Java: predefined names are mixed case
- e.g. IndexOutOfBoundsException)
* Effects on writability?
-----

<http://www.csee.umbc.edu/courses/331/spring03/0101/lectures/finin5.ppt>
-----
* The first languages only had upper case
* Case sensitivity was probably introduced by Unix and hence C.
* Disadvantage:
Poor readability, since names that look alike to a human are
different
* Advantages:
Larger namespace
Ability to use case to signify classes of variables
(e.g., make constants be in uppercase)
-----

<http://computing.dcu.ie/~humphrys/Notes/UNIX/intro.html>
-----
Is case sensitivity a good thing? Or is it a flaw in UNIX (and
C/C++)?

Advantages of case sensitivity:
* More readable code. You know what to expect.
* More variables. num and NUM and Num
* Set up conventions, so that NUM probably refers to a
compile-time-coded constant, num is a real-time-changing
variable, etc. Quicker/simpler searches on file lists, since can
just search for the literal string.
* Better to be case-sensitive for passwords. - Larger space to
pick from. Harder to guess. Good to be "unforgiving" for security.

Not much return for such huge disadvantages:
* Millions of programmer and user hours lost on case not right.
* UNIX web servers everywhere have constant log of "404 Not Found"
which are really hits from people who noted a URL by hand and
didn't know it should be case sensitive. (Web server should
really have some logic to redirect of course.)
-----

<http://www2.southeastern.edu/Academics/Faculty/galkadi/401/notes/chapter5.d
oc>
<https://www.cs.purdue.edu/homes/sbarakat/cs456/456-07-4up.pdf>
-----
Case sensitivity
- Disadvantage: readability (names that look alike are different)
* Worse in C++ and Java because predefined names are mixed case
(e.g. IndexOutOfBoundsException)
* In C, however, exclusive use of lowercase for names.
- C, C++, and Java names are case sensitive -> rose, Rose, ROSE
are distinct names "What about Readability"
------

<http://umcs.maine.edu/~cmeadow/courses/cos301/cos301-5.pdf>
-----
* Case sensitive languages have a readability issue: names that
look alike are different
* Case sensitive languages that do not require variable
declarations also have a writability issue: it's too easy to
accidentally create a new variable
-----


Ouch. Come on, the consensus in COLA *must* be supported somewhere, right?
This is just getting silly - I truly am shocked not a single source can be
found in support of case sensitivity. Not at all what I expected.
---------------------------------------------------------------

>> Clearly you didn't search much.
>>
>> [deletia]
>>
>> I suspect that when it comes to language design, this "crucial issue"
>> doesn't even blip on anyone's radar. If you brought it up, everyone in the
>> room would probably look at you like you suddenly grew a second head.
>>
>> They will be all going "Who let this amateur into the room!".
>
> He's nothing but a somewhat clever k00k. Mad as a hatter.



--

[Snit]

On 3/26/15, 1:24 PM, in article slrnmh8qo...@nomad.mishnet,

"JEDIDIAH" <je...@nomad.mishnet> wrote:

> On 2015-03-26, Steve Carroll <fretw...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> On Thursday, March 26, 2015 at 12:45:34 PM UTC-6, Snit wrote:
>>> On 3/26/15, 10:36 AM, in article
>>> 2ca2dfd3-3864-4346...@googlegroups.com, "-hh"
>>> <recscub...@huntzinger.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Steve Carroll wrote:
>>>>> DFS wrote:
>
> [deletia]
>
>>> We went over this before and the evidence showed:
>>>
>>> In support of case insensitivity:
>>> * every college we can find
>>> * every university we can find
>
> Clearly you didn't search much.

I clearly did more research than ANYONE else in COLA. By far. But by all
means show me what I missed:

[JEDIDIAH]

On 2015-03-26, Steve Carroll <fretw...@gmail.com> wrote:

> On Wednesday, March 25, 2015 at 9:43:12 PM UTC-6, DFS wrote:
>
> (snip)
>
>> triggers (actions that occur in response to table operations)
>> CREATE OR REPLACE TRIGGER XXX.BI_GET_NEXT_ORDER_ID
>> BEFORE INSERT
>> ON TT_ORDER
>> FOR EACH ROW
>> BEGIN
>> IF :new.ORDER_ID IS NULL THEN
>> :new.ORDER_ID := NEXTORDERID;
>> END IF;
>> END;
>>
>>
>> There. Now you're 50% Oracle DBA, 50% asylum escapee.
>
> I've never used this but it seems it's not all that different from MySQL. If

That's the embedded procedural language in Oracle. I think it's a variant
of an ancient language called PL/1. SQL is pretty ancient too. It seems a lot
like X having it's detractors that think that it's time has passed and it needs
to be kicked to the curb.

> he's going the IT route, (what he has his Masters degree in), at the least,
> he should probably develop a passing familiarity with the basics. If he was
> going to focus more on web development (what he does for his business) I'd
> suggest he work with MySQL because a *lot* of CMS installations still use it
> despite its relative shortcomings. They are both similar enough and so widely
> used that, either way, he really can't go wrong.

You used to get a more historical view in an RDBMS class. These days they
seem to start out with SQL and quickly leave it behind moving to stuff like
NoSQL.

Although MySQL certainly has mindshare in a certain segment of the market.

[Chris Ahlstrom]

JEDIDIAH wrote this copyrighted missive and expects royalties:

> On 2015-03-26, Steve Carroll <fretw...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> On Wednesday, March 25, 2015 at 9:43:12 PM UTC-6, DFS wrote:
>>
>> (snip)
>>
>>> triggers (actions that occur in response to table operations)
>>> CREATE OR REPLACE TRIGGER XXX.BI_GET_NEXT_ORDER_ID
>>> BEFORE INSERT
>>> ON TT_ORDER
>>> FOR EACH ROW
>>> BEGIN
>>> IF :new.ORDER_ID IS NULL THEN
>>> :new.ORDER_ID := NEXTORDERID;
>>> END IF;
>>> END;

Doofus flexing his "coding" "muscle" again? Maybe he should read the
fortuitous sig that fortune generated below. <chuckle>

>>> There. Now you're 50% Oracle DBA, 50% asylum escapee.
>>
>> I've never used this but it seems it's not all that different from MySQL. If
>
> That's the embedded procedural language in Oracle. I think it's a variant
> of an ancient language called PL/1. SQL is pretty ancient too. It seems a lot
> like X having it's detractors that think that it's time has passed and it needs
> to be kicked to the curb.

It's like C... long "deprecated" but still immensely useful in its domain.

--
If you had better tools, you could more effectively demonstrate your
total incompetence.

[-hh]

Steve Carroll wrote:

> -hh wrote:
> > Steve Carroll wrote:
> > > DFS wrote:

> > > > [...]

> > > > Case-insensitive and case-preserving is the best (like
> > > > Windows and VB does it).
> > >

> > > Then why do so many case sensitive languages exist?
> >
> > IMO, probably because it less technically challenging
> > to accomplish in comparison to 'case-insensitive while
> > being case-preserving'.
> >
> > Yes, its an opinion based on Occam's Razor...this one
> > is merely the observation that programmers are lazy when
> > they can get away with it.
>

> I see that as an oversimplification.

Oh, but of course it is. My point is that most things evolve from
the simple to the complex and in this regards, projects start out
in Alpha form in the category of "written by lab rats, for lab rats":
the resources to make something 'pretty' come along later.


> Language is about expression, while it's fun to toss around the
> age old idea that a programmer is inherently lazy, ...

Lazy is also another way of saying 'efficient'. When in the early
days of computing and systems didn't even have upper & lower case,
there was simply no need to create the additional complexity to
bake that in to a UI - - assuming of course that the hardware
was even capable of it.

When it comes to input massaging, we're still not there yet, as
can be seen today with recurring bug patching for even what's
supposedly well known and basic such as sanitizing user inputs
to prevent corruption from buffer overruns.

My point here was that doing a 1:1 mapping of a system's
character set into a compiler's variable names is straightforward
and easy, but doing something other than a straight 1:1 takes more
work, time and thought on specifically what's needed and why.
As such, there must be some basis of need to justify incurring
that extra expense...especially when the programmers are
being driven more by business interests than "because its neat!".


-hh

[DFS]

On 3/27/2015 6:10 AM, Chris Ahlstrom wrote:
> JEDIDIAH wrote this copyrighted missive and expects royalties:
>
>>> On 2015-03-26, Steve Carroll<fretw...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>> On Wednesday, March 25, 2015 at 9:43:12 PM UTC-6, DFS wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> (snip)
>>>>>
>>>>>>> triggers (actions that occur in response to table
>>>>>>> operations) CREATE OR REPLACE TRIGGER
>>>>>>> XXX.BI_GET_NEXT_ORDER_ID BEFORE INSERT ON TT_ORDER FOR
>>>>>>> EACH ROW BEGIN IF :new.ORDER_ID IS NULL THEN
>>>>>>> :new.ORDER_ID := NEXTORDERID; END IF; END;
> Doofus flexing his "coding" "muscle" again?

A few lines of PL/SQL to create an Oracle trigger. Don't be intimidated.

How come you never post any code, you 'cross-platform C++, code on
Linux, deploy on Windows guru' you?

> Maybe he should read the fortuitous sig that fortune generated below.
> <chuckle>

Speaking of fortunes:

"I'm not worried about money, we have plenty. Thanks to Windows-related
work, but that's my own crucifix to bear.

https://groups.google.com/forum/?hl=en#!original/comp.os.linux.advocacy/1DtRGaA9xJg/ALKMg8sH0LkJ


You're going on what, 20 years of writing Windows code? Thank God for
"Billy Butt-Crust", eh Creepy?

>>>>>>> There. Now you're 50% Oracle DBA, 50% asylum escapee.
>>>>>
>>>>> I've never used this but it seems it's not all that different
>>>>> from MySQL. If
>>>
>>> That's the embedded procedural language in Oracle. I think it's a
>>> variant of an ancient language called PL/1. SQL is pretty ancient
>>> too. It seems a lot like X having it's detractors that think that
>>> it's time has passed and it needs to be kicked to the curb.

"The designers of PL/SQL modeled its syntax on that of Ada."

> It's like C... long "deprecated" but still immensely useful in its
> domain.
>
> -- If you had better tools, you could more effectively demonstrate
> your total incompetence.

You have cola for that.

[DFS]

On 3/26/2015 2:04 PM, Steve Carroll wrote:

> On Thursday, March 26, 2015 at 11:37:02 AM UTC-6, -hh wrote:
>> Steve Carroll wrote:
>>> DFS wrote:
>>>> [...] Case-insensitive and case-preserving is the best (like
>>>> Windows and VB does it).
>>>
>>> Then why do so many case sensitive languages exist?
>>
>> IMO, probably because it less technically challenging to accomplish
>> in comparison to 'case-insensitive while being case-preserving'.
>>
>> Yes, its an opinion based on Occam's Razor...this one is merely the
>> observation that programmers are lazy when they can get away with
>> it.
>

> I see that as an oversimplification. Language is about expression,

> while it's fun to toss around the age old idea that a programmer is

> inherently lazy, the ones who write computer languages and complex
> programs clearly aren't. It takes a lot of work to get really good
> with this stuff and, once you are, I suspect the idea of limiting
> your expression probably holds little appeal if you're sitting down
> to create a computer language you'd like people to adopt.


'limits your expression'? BWA!!! Show me some examples.

I think it's much more work to remember the distinction and usage of two
variables or files or folders which are spelled the same but have a
different case than it is to create a 2nd variable or file or folder
with a different name.

I wonder how often programmers avail themselves of case-sensitivity by
utilizing the same spelling with a different case. I'd guess very
rarely if at all. In that case, the case for case-sensitivity is a
cold-case...

[chrisv]

Chris Ahlstrom wrote:

>Doofus flexing his "coding" "muscle" again?

Hehe. The dumb fsck is trying to save face after his recent
humiliation regarding compiler warnings.

>Maybe he should read the
>fortuitous sig that fortune generated below. <chuckle>
>

>--
>If you had better tools, you could more effectively demonstrate your
>total incompetence.

Or the classic "Better to remain silent and be thought a fool than to
speak out and remove all doubt."

--
"I think it's mentally-ill to give away valuable programs that help
IBM or RedHat, etc, generate Linux-related revenue." - DumFSck

[Ezekiel]

"DFS" <nos...@dfs.com> wrote in message news:mf3h8v$srm$2...@dont-email.me...

> On 3/27/2015 6:10 AM, Chris Ahlstrom wrote:
>> JEDIDIAH wrote this copyrighted missive and expects royalties:
>>
>>>> On 2015-03-26, Steve Carroll<fretw...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>> On Wednesday, March 25, 2015 at 9:43:12 PM UTC-6, DFS wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> (snip)
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> triggers (actions that occur in response to table
>>>>>>>> operations) CREATE OR REPLACE TRIGGER
>>>>>>>> XXX.BI_GET_NEXT_ORDER_ID BEFORE INSERT ON TT_ORDER FOR
>>>>>>>> EACH ROW BEGIN IF :new.ORDER_ID IS NULL THEN
>>>>>>>> :new.ORDER_ID := NEXTORDERID; END IF; END;
>> Doofus flexing his "coding" "muscle" again?

A trigger to assign the next sequential ORDER_ID if one isn't available. Is
it rocket surgery?

> A few lines of PL/SQL to create an Oracle trigger. Don't be intimidated.

Ahlstrom prefers to stay completely ignorant of SQL. This way when his
"president" claims that he understands databases better than the best
experts in the world because he thinks in "hex and byte movements" Ahstrom
can just shrug his shoulders in ignorance and say "dunno."

> How come you never post any code, you 'cross-platform C++, code on Linux,
> deploy on Windows guru' you?
>
>
>
>> Maybe he should read the fortuitous sig that fortune generated below.
>> <chuckle>
>
> Speaking of fortunes:
>
> "I'm not worried about money, we have plenty. Thanks to Windows-related
> work, but that's my own crucifix to bear.
>
> https://groups.google.com/forum/?hl=en#!original/comp.os.linux.advocacy/1DtRGaA9xJg/ALKMg8sH0LkJ
>
>
> You're going on what, 20 years of writing Windows code? Thank God for
> "Billy Butt-Crust", eh Creepy?
>

(giggle) - He should spend less time "slicking his Billy Box" and perhaps
learn the basics of SQL.

--
"I've done for example SQL optimization and the reason I could do it better
than the best high level experts can do was because I think in hex and bits
and byte movements. If you know the assembler in detail, you would know what
"select * from employees" would translate into assembler and how different
and yet similar that would be from "select name from employees"

Babbling idiot "7"
<qAN5r.607$ya....@newsfe03.ams2>


"I dunno" - Chris Ahlstrom, too ignorant of software to recognize complete
bullshit.

https://groups.google.com/forum/#!original/comp.os.linux.advocacy/i8Nbmn1EyL0/DjDsQguZ2g0J

[DFS]

On 3/27/2015 8:42 AM, chrisv wrote:
> Chris Ahlstrom wrote:
>
>> Doofus flexing his "coding" "muscle" again?
>
> Hehe. The dumb fsck is trying to save face after his recent
> humiliation regarding compiler warnings.

Only in your shit-for-brains was I humiliated.

>> Maybe he should read the
>> fortuitous sig that fortune generated below. <chuckle>
>>
>> --
>> If you had better tools, you could more effectively demonstrate your
>> total incompetence.
>
> Or the classic "Better to remain silent and be thought a fool than to
> speak out and remove all doubt."

shitv: "Microsoft products put larger OEMs at a real disadvantage"

heh! Only a Linux "advocate" could say something so stupid.