".. # Before I get flamed for this, please understand that a holy war,
"Linux uber alles" of sorts, is a self-defeating strategy. I hope
that there is a healthy "silent majority" of the open source
community (that why I actually am writing this FAQ) who are just
writing code as best they can, and/or submitting patches bug reports.
But that does not mean that we can just ignore the ranting and raving
of the zealots. But the public tend to define the open source
community in terms of its most outspoken members which in this
particular case means zealots...
He accuses us on COLA of promoting a holy war and of being zealots.
He points to a web page to back up his arguments. It's written by one
"Nikolai Bezroukov" of Kiev University of commerce and economics,
Ukraine which makes him eminently qualified to comment on the issue.
I make this point as Mr Bezroukov himself doesn't think Linus Torvalds
is qualified to give opinions. He purports to be an unbiased
commentator but from the tone and content I for one suspect his
motives. I had not been aware of it's existence so here is a belated
Firstly I am not a zealot. I am just a user of the technology. I come
here to disguise Linux with like minded individuals. The same cannot
be said for Mr Burke and others with the same hidden agenda as
himself. I suspect that they are in fact disguised proponents for the
Microsoft Corporation. I guess you knew that already.
I don't use the Microsoft product and can go for ages without
mentioning it. I have no axe to grind either way. What I do object to
is these WinTrolls coming over here pretending to engage in dialogue.
But secretly trying to undermine the Open Source Community in general.
It cannot be a co-incidence that the language, deceptions and
mis-information they use is strikingly similar to the product coming
out of Redmond. You might suspect that it has been written by the same
people. It's also strange how most of the fud mentioned here at one
time or another bears a striking resemblance to that web page. It's
remarkable how they are all so ON MESSAGE.
There has been a change of tack recently. Rather that the direct
assault they are going for a more suttle approach.
In the web page referred to above the author one "Nikolai Bezroukov"
resorted to the personal attack. Referring to something called
"Raymondism". This I assume is a gratuitous personal insult aimed at
"Eric S. Raymond" author of "The Cathedral and the Bazaar" amongst
other things. "Raymondism" can also be refered to as "childish
diseases" and "bad advocacy" he informs us.
He defines the affliction as "naive .. blind fold Linux chauvinism
("Linux uber alles")". The quotes are himself quoting himself. Linux
advocates he don't agree with are just like Nazis - (it's the German
quotation - get it !).
What he does like is "a credible OSS advocacy" - what this is he
doesn't say. O.S.S ".. can play a positive role in developing
countries .." he says, get that people ? Some colonials might have a
use for it. Don't even think of going head to head against W2K. He
attacks ERS for ".. primitive anti Microsoft rhetoric ..".
".. Since Jan. 1998 Eric Raymond successfully promoted "open source"
as a distinct and slightly anti-Stallman movement. See for example his
interview with Smart Reseller Straight From The Source where Eric was
called a Godfather of Linux ;-) .."
There was no reference to a "Godfather of Linux" in the quoted
article. Is this a case of someone making up their own quotes again ?
I've tried to find the quote on google but to no avail.
He also quotes ESR and attacks him because some of the same arguments
could be applied to Microsoft. Here he betrays his true position, not
as an "objective" reviewer of OSS but as an apologist for the
Microsoft corporation. This me-too-ism runs through the article(s).
I'm curious as to his motives for this hatchet job on OSS. He even
quotes Pope Boniface VII at one point to bolster his arguments. OSS
you see - it's the devils work !
".. At the same time the movement is still in its early stages (and
not last days, as some predict) .." Who ever said OSS was on its last
days ? Nobody. You print a falsehood only to retract it in the same
sentence. This bares similarities to an "Ericism". Are they by any
chance related ?
".. What ESR and Co failed to realize is that people who are
developing and using Solaris, Novell and Microsoft products are also
professionals and many of them are of a caliber far superior to the
author of low to middle-range open source products like EMACS editor
macros, a mail utility, and like ;-). For any intelligent professional
an open demonstration of arrogance naturally creates a strong negative
reaction, a backlash that is damaging to the movement credibility and
Why is such a superior company desperately trying to gather cudos by
comparing themselves to a bunch of sandle wearing OSS advocates. The
words Inferiority Complex comes to mind. See how he has to rope in
Solaris and Novell to bolster his arguament. I suspect neither of them
would be quick to defend the beast. Again he tacks a negative
signifier on to the end of the sentence possible in the hope that no
one would notice.
This again reminds me of a typical fud posting here. See how he gets
'author' 'low' and 'open source products' together in the same
sentence. For such an expert on OSS the only apps he can think of are
"EMACS" "editor macros" and "a mail utility".
A Microsoft defender accuses the OSS movement of "arrogance". Has he
ever heard the expression Pot Kettle Black ?
The only war is the one being prosecuted from One Microsoft Way. OSS
people have neither the time or the inclination to mount "WARS". He
uses the word on more than one occasion. Bill Gates may be at war with
the rest of the world but that's his own paranoia.
".. The same problems exist with primitive anti Microsoft rhetoric .."
er the TRUTH ! This arrogant bastard then goes on to abuse Linus
Torvalds ".. technical judgments are very suspect .. things about
which he actually has very little real knowledge due to the specifics
of his career .."
Could Mr Bezroukov please enlighten us as to his own qualifications.
As he is not impressed with Richard Stallman, Eric Raymond" or Linus
Torvalds. There is an old football expression around here - if you
can't go for the ball then go for the man. We can be sure which
philosophy fires up Bezroukov - go for the man.
".. We should suspect any OSS advocacy that includes the following
Is that the royal we or do you have an invisible friend sitting on
your sholder as you type ?
".. open source software .. is called economism or Vulgar Marxism .."
Get that folks OSS is communist. YOUR ALL A BUNCH OF NO GOOD COMMIES !
Sorry I lost it there for a minute - to continue. We can take it that
Nikolai has embraced the one true Church of the All Mighty Dollar and
as such is displaying all the zeal of the convert. The Good Lord loves
".. See Is "Vulgar Marxism" a legitimate scientific term .." - Answer
NO it's just more of the same abuse from a vulgar troll!
".. concealment of the facts about the true economic origin of ..
(OSS) .. products .. 'taxpayer-funded' (university-funded) .."
Do Microsoft see the Universities as a threat now. 'my god there are
people actually thinking there - without a licence'
Didn't his BillNess use an unauthorized terminal to bash out code in
his early years - all paid for by his college ?
".. Linus Torvalds was financed .. remunerated him quite nicely ..
most highly paid developers in the Unix word .."
What is the point - are we supposed to feel jealous. Yes he makes
money. He probably lives in a house eats food and sleeps in his own
bed. Bezroukov cannot support his position on it's merits so he
trashes the personal reputation of OSS advocates instead. Do these
people have no integrity ?
".. disrespect of other developers .. especially Microsoft .." -
Finally we come to the kernal of the matter.
We've hurt their feelings. Sitting hunched out there in Redmond
hacking out "Dog Food" all day is bad enough but getting maligned by
your peers - that really hurts.
" Instigation of hatred of the members of the commercial community is
unproductive and unethical .."
OH The irony ! Blackmailing and intimidating your own commercial
partners is also unethical. Getting lectures on ethics from you people
is ludicrous as well as insulting !
Sorry, having read other posts by you I have to disagree, and I dont have
'suspect motives' in saying that.
Or... do I?!?
But those that use OE 6.0 that post here aren't zealots??
> "Nikolai Bezroukov" of Kiev University of commerce and economics,
> Ukraine which makes him eminently qualified to comment on the issue.
Well, please... no offense to anyone from any former soveit block nation,
but I have to honestly say I have a hard time taking Mr. Bezroukov's
opinion sersiously given the economic state of most countries of that
My appologies to anyone from Russia, the Ukraine, or any other former member
of the Soviet Union. It doesn't mean they aren't capable of having a
robust and vibrant economie, I just don't see very much of that actually
happening at the moment, or in the recent past to be honest. Mr. Bezroukov
may be very well versed in commerce and econmics theory,.. but like I said
I would be a little more confident about his opinion if that regions
economy was actually prospering.
P.S. I know -- Flame bait -- let the flames roar.
Heh. Your criterion for zealotry (using OE6) indicates that you're something
of a zealot yourself!
But to prove I'm not a zealot (Guffaw!!) I'll use something less satanic
I own a very large television
This is COLA. If you want to advocate Linux/UNIX use the
o/s. Otherwise, stay in your own newsgroup.
Oh come on! Surely you dont see this newsgroup as just one big forum for
self-congratulatory back-slapping amongst Linux advocates!?
That's naive in the extreme ;-)
...and somewhat... over-zealous, shall we say :-)
Me, overzealous?? Guffaw!! I use an electric cattle prod
on some trolls,... makes great sport.