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MS Office: 258M paying customers as of Apr 2020

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DFS

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Dec 1, 2022, 10:11:00 AM12/1/22
to
"Microsoft also has 258 million paid seats for Office 365, which
includes access to Microsoft Teams."


https://www.theverge.com/2020/4/29/21241972/microsoft-teams-75-million-daily-active-users-stats


Linux won

Johnny LaRue

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Dec 1, 2022, 6:27:40 PM12/1/22
to
Linux won the back end/server room. Which is pretty easy when the
competition is Windows.

The front end is still mostly Windows, but I see more Macs on desktops
every day.

vallor

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Dec 1, 2022, 7:03:39 PM12/1/22
to
Also "won" embedded.

DFS' complaint is that Linux doesn't run Windows apps as well as Windows.

Depends on the app. I have native Teams for Linux, for example. Works
just fine. "Office" stuff, if I can't handle it with Linux, can be handled
on Office 365. If you know your way around, you can run Linux as primary.

BTW, though it did takes some tinkering, I got Elite Dangerous to run on
Linux, and I've been doing that for many months now. Thanks, Melzzz: I wouldn't
have known it was possible, if you hadn't reported success.

--
-v

Branimir Maksimovic

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Dec 1, 2022, 7:08:24 PM12/1/22
to
Won what?

--

7-77-777
Evil Sinner!
with software, you repeat same experiment, expecting different results...

Branimir Maksimovic

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Dec 1, 2022, 7:20:44 PM12/1/22
to
Which Macs? They are toys.... Macbook is ok, but rest? iMac, mini, these are
not desktops... studio is too expensive and powerfull for desktop use...
And they sell disk storage and ram, like they are gold...
I really doubt they will ever pass some percent... their
main profit is still iPhone...

chrisv

unread,
Dec 1, 2022, 7:21:39 PM12/1/22
to
Branimir Maksimovic wrote:

> some dumb fsck wrote:
>>
>> Linux won
>
> Won what?

Micro$oft's capitulation. They've given-up hope of stopping Linux,
and now support it.

--
"You freetards nauseate me." - "True Linux advocate" Hadron Quark

Branimir Maksimovic

unread,
Dec 1, 2022, 7:23:46 PM12/1/22
to
I play more then 400 games on Linux. Don't have Windows.
I even stream games from Linux to Macbook :P

Branimir Maksimovic

unread,
Dec 1, 2022, 7:28:08 PM12/1/22
to
On 2022-12-02, chrisv <chr...@nospam.invalid> wrote:
> Branimir Maksimovic wrote:
>
>> some dumb fsck wrote:
>>>
>>> Linux won
>>
>> Won what?
>
> Micro$oft's capitulation. They've given-up hope of stopping Linux,
> and now support it.

Yeah, you can now run Linux desktop under Windows 11 :P>

Joel

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Dec 1, 2022, 7:37:50 PM12/1/22
to
Branimir Maksimovic <branimir....@icloud.com> wrote:

>Yeah, you can now run Linux desktop under Windows 11 :P>


It sucks, though, I am here to say. It's not an alternative to
actually booting Linux.

--
Joel Crump

DFS

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Dec 1, 2022, 7:55:22 PM12/1/22
to
On 12/1/2022 7:03 PM, vallor wrote:


> DFS' complaint is that Linux doesn't run Windows apps as well as Windows.

What complaint? I was just noting MS has only 258,000,000 paid Office
installs, and Linux/LibreOffice will be taking them over any day now...




> BTW, though it did takes some tinkering, I got Elite Dangerous to run on
> Linux, and I've been doing that for many months now. Thanks, Melzzz: I wouldn't
> have known it was possible, if you hadn't reported success.


I bought 3 games recently:

- Serious Sam HD: First Encounter $3
- Kerbal Space Program $9 (based on your mentions)
- The Talos Principle $4

Sam = updated game engine, mindless carnage, very fun
Kerbal = too much focus required, but I might get into it someday
Talos = absorbing, philosophical puzzle game, very cool

Also bought legal/licensed MS Office Pro 2021 for $30. Not digging the
interface (Ribbon) so far, but there are enough new features that I'll
be stim-a-lated to stick with it.

DFS

unread,
Dec 1, 2022, 8:16:59 PM12/1/22
to
On 12/1/2022 7:37 PM, Joel wrote:
> Branimir Maksimovic <branimir....@icloud.com> wrote:
>
>> Yeah, you can now run Linux desktop under Windows 11 :P>
>
>
> It sucks, though, I am here to say.

It doesn't suck at all.

You have some other issue. I can load up 3 WSL distros, 3 copies of
Gimp, etc, and have 0 fan/speedup issues.

Most importantly, WSL distros run extremely fast in the shell and the
GUI apps I've tried. If they ran slow, like a Linux guest vm on Windows
Virtual Box or Hyper-V, WSL would barely be worth using.

Plus you can read/write the filesystems both ways (without buying
Paragon's app for $20 to read ext* from Windows).



> It's not an alternative to actually booting Linux.

It's better than booting Linux.

Dual-boot to Linux, run/test some code or app, reboot back to Windows to
troll cola = hassle

A WSL distro installs in a few minutes, and takes about 5 seconds to
boot up from a terminal:

$wsl -d Debian

DFS

unread,
Dec 1, 2022, 8:17:59 PM12/1/22
to
On 12/1/2022 7:08 PM, Branimir Maksimovic wrote:
> On 2022-12-01, DFS <nos...@dfs.com> wrote:
>> "Microsoft also has 258 million paid seats for Office 365, which
>> includes access to Microsoft Teams."
>>
>>
>> https://www.theverge.com/2020/4/29/21241972/microsoft-teams-75-million-daily-active-users-stats
>>
>>
>> Linux won
> Won what?

Linux will win.


Joel

unread,
Dec 1, 2022, 8:24:22 PM12/1/22
to
DFS <nos...@dfs.com> wrote:
>On 12/1/2022 7:37 PM, Joel wrote:
>> Branimir Maksimovic <branimir....@icloud.com> wrote:
>>
>>> Yeah, you can now run Linux desktop under Windows 11 :P>
>>
>> It sucks, though, I am here to say.
>
>It doesn't suck at all.
>
>You have some other issue. I can load up 3 WSL distros, 3 copies of
>Gimp, etc, and have 0 fan/speedup issues.
>
>Most importantly, WSL distros run extremely fast in the shell and the
>GUI apps I've tried. If they ran slow, like a Linux guest vm on Windows
>Virtual Box or Hyper-V, WSL would barely be worth using.
>
>Plus you can read/write the filesystems both ways (without buying
>Paragon's app for $20 to read ext* from Windows).


It's not some other issue, no, you just don't get it. WSL may have
some purpose, but it isn't to actually use GUI Linux apps under
Windows.


> > It's not an alternative to actually booting Linux.
>
>It's better than booting Linux.
>
>Dual-boot to Linux, run/test some code or app, reboot back to Windows to
>troll cola = hassle
>
>A WSL distro installs in a few minutes, and takes about 5 seconds to
>boot up from a terminal:
>
>$wsl -d Debian


I'd rather run Linux, if I want Linux. That's why I run Windows apps
under Windows, and let WSL be a mere experiment.

--
Joel Crump

DFS

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Dec 1, 2022, 9:46:11 PM12/1/22
to
On 12/1/2022 8:24 PM, Joel wrote:
> DFS <nos...@dfs.com> wrote:
>> On 12/1/2022 7:37 PM, Joel wrote:
>>> Branimir Maksimovic <branimir....@icloud.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Yeah, you can now run Linux desktop under Windows 11 :P>
>>>
>>> It sucks, though, I am here to say.
>>
>> It doesn't suck at all.
>>
>> You have some other issue. I can load up 3 WSL distros, 3 copies of
>> Gimp, etc, and have 0 fan/speedup issues.
>>
>> Most importantly, WSL distros run extremely fast in the shell and the
>> GUI apps I've tried. If they ran slow, like a Linux guest vm on Windows
>> Virtual Box or Hyper-V, WSL would barely be worth using.
>>
>> Plus you can read/write the filesystems both ways (without buying
>> Paragon's app for $20 to read ext* from Windows).
>
>
> It's not some other issue, no, you just don't get it. WSL may have
> some purpose, but it isn't to actually use GUI Linux apps under
> Windows.


What's going on here? Do you not understand virtual machines?

A WSL distro is 100% Linux, running in a lightweight vm.

The standard WSL kernel is compiled by MS (but you can compile your own
too), it uses the ext4 filesystem, X11/Wayland, systemd (later versions
of WSL), any and all GUI apps as far as I know, etc.



>>> It's not an alternative to actually booting Linux.
>>
>> It's better than booting Linux.
>>
>> Dual-boot to Linux, run/test some code or app, reboot back to Windows to
>> troll cola = hassle
>>
>> A WSL distro installs in a few minutes, and takes about 5 seconds to
>> boot up from a terminal:
>>
>> $wsl -d Debian
>
>
> I'd rather run Linux, if I want Linux. That's why I run Windows apps
> under Windows, and let WSL be a mere experiment.

If you want Linux, you have it: Windows Subsystem for Linux.

Are you just mad at MS for making it work well? It took them quite a
while, as WSL was announced like 6 years ago.

rbowman

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Dec 1, 2022, 10:03:57 PM12/1/22
to
On Thu, 01 Dec 2022 20:24:18 -0500, Joel wrote:


> It's not some other issue, no, you just don't get it. WSL may have some
> purpose, but it isn't to actually use GUI Linux apps under Windows.

I set up a tile server on a WSL Debian installation yesterday, all command
line. The closest I got to a GUI was

lynx http://localhost

to make sure apache2 was alive, well, and serving up the default
index.html out of /var/www/html.

I wasn't certain it would work but it did quite nicely. Debian thinks it
has 8GB, which is the WSL default and is using 1.2GB. The 8GB must be sort
of a promise since taskmgr doesn't show the memory usage as if something
had staked out a hard 8GB.


Joel

unread,
Dec 1, 2022, 10:10:04 PM12/1/22
to
DFS <nos...@dfs.com> wrote:
>On 12/1/2022 8:24 PM, Joel wrote:
>> DFS <nos...@dfs.com> wrote:
>>> On 12/1/2022 7:37 PM, Joel wrote:
>>>> Branimir Maksimovic <branimir....@icloud.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Yeah, you can now run Linux desktop under Windows 11 :P>
>>>>
>>>> It sucks, though, I am here to say.
>>>
>>> It doesn't suck at all.
>>>
>>> You have some other issue. I can load up 3 WSL distros, 3 copies of
>>> Gimp, etc, and have 0 fan/speedup issues.
>>>
>>> Most importantly, WSL distros run extremely fast in the shell and the
>>> GUI apps I've tried. If they ran slow, like a Linux guest vm on Windows
>>> Virtual Box or Hyper-V, WSL would barely be worth using.
>>>
>>> Plus you can read/write the filesystems both ways (without buying
>>> Paragon's app for $20 to read ext* from Windows).
>>
>> It's not some other issue, no, you just don't get it. WSL may have
>> some purpose, but it isn't to actually use GUI Linux apps under
>> Windows.
>
>What's going on here? Do you not understand virtual machines?
>
>A WSL distro is 100% Linux, running in a lightweight vm.
>
>The standard WSL kernel is compiled by MS (but you can compile your own
>too), it uses the ext4 filesystem, X11/Wayland, systemd (later versions
>of WSL), any and all GUI apps as far as I know, etc.


It's not that it can't be used, I gave it a look, but it's not going
to replace actually running Linux directly.


>>>> It's not an alternative to actually booting Linux.
>>>
>>> It's better than booting Linux.
>>>
>>> Dual-boot to Linux, run/test some code or app, reboot back to Windows to
>>> troll cola = hassle
>>>
>>> A WSL distro installs in a few minutes, and takes about 5 seconds to
>>> boot up from a terminal:
>>>
>>> $wsl -d Debian
>>
>> I'd rather run Linux, if I want Linux. That's why I run Windows apps
>> under Windows, and let WSL be a mere experiment.
>
>If you want Linux, you have it: Windows Subsystem for Linux.
>
>Are you just mad at MS for making it work well? It took them quite a
>while, as WSL was announced like 6 years ago.


I'm not mad at them at all, it's a clever thing they've done, but not
worth much on a production machine.

--
Joel Crump

rbowman

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Dec 1, 2022, 10:12:54 PM12/1/22
to
https://www.theregister.com/2022/12/01/
net_open_source_heavily_underfunded/

"Why is the cloud giant an enthusiast for Microsoft's technology? "The
last two years, we've spent a lot of time getting customers from .NET
Framework to .NET Core, so customers can get away from Windows and SQL
Server licenses and use Linux and Cloud native technologies," said Mayur
Dewaikar, an AWS senior product manager."


As I've mentioned an AWS Windows instance with SQL Server is a lot more
per hour than a vanilla Linux instance. Usually the hardware requirements
are heavier and there are the Windows licenses. However I didn't think
AWS cared one way or the other rather than actively pushing Linux. Perhaps
they're worried potential customers doing a cost analysis based on MS are
getting scared away.




DFS

unread,
Dec 1, 2022, 10:32:54 PM12/1/22
to
On 12/1/2022 10:03 PM, rbowman wrote:
> On Thu, 01 Dec 2022 20:24:18 -0500, Joel wrote:
>
>
>> It's not some other issue, no, you just don't get it. WSL may have some
>> purpose, but it isn't to actually use GUI Linux apps under Windows.
>
> I set up a tile server on a WSL Debian installation yesterday, all command
> line. The closest I got to a GUI was
>
> lynx http://localhost
>
> to make sure apache2 was alive, well, and serving up the default
> index.html out of /var/www/html.

> I wasn't certain it would work but it did quite nicely.

sweet



> Debian thinks it
> has 8GB, which is the WSL default and is using 1.2GB. The 8GB must be sort
> of a promise since taskmgr doesn't show the memory usage as if something
> had staked out a hard 8GB.

There's something funny going on with WSL reporting disk space, too:

dfs@Win11EE:~$ df -h
Filesystem Size Used Avail Use% Mounted on
/dev/sdd 1007G 42G 915G 5% /

That says 915GB is available, but what's actually available on the drive
on which the distro is installed is 41GB.

DFS

unread,
Dec 1, 2022, 11:03:17 PM12/1/22
to
Why don't you setup a dual-boot and see if Linux installed the usual way
also causes you fan issues?


"How to Dual Boot Ubuntu 22.04 LTS and Windows 11 [ 2022 ]"
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QKn5U2esuRk

In the past, on my older Intel system, I would only ever get fan surges
up and down when running Linux, even with 8GB of memory.





>>>>> It's not an alternative to actually booting Linux.
>>>>
>>>> It's better than booting Linux.
>>>>
>>>> Dual-boot to Linux, run/test some code or app, reboot back to Windows to
>>>> troll cola = hassle
>>>>
>>>> A WSL distro installs in a few minutes, and takes about 5 seconds to
>>>> boot up from a terminal:
>>>>
>>>> $wsl -d Debian
>>>
>>> I'd rather run Linux, if I want Linux. That's why I run Windows apps
>>> under Windows, and let WSL be a mere experiment.
>>
>> If you want Linux, you have it: Windows Subsystem for Linux.
>>
>> Are you just mad at MS for making it work well? It took them quite a
>> while, as WSL was announced like 6 years ago.
>
>
> I'm not mad at them at all, it's a clever thing they've done, but not
> worth much on a production machine.


Wrong again, my man. I won't keep correcting you on WSL, as you seem
hell bent on not accepting reality.

bowman just setup a web server on WSL.

Google for 'use wsl as a server' and you'll find interesting and
successful stories.

vallor

unread,
Dec 2, 2022, 12:57:05 AM12/2/22
to
On Thu, 1 Dec 2022 20:16:57 -0500, DFS wrote:

> Most importantly, WSL distros run extremely fast in the shell and the
> GUI apps I've tried. If they ran slow, like a Linux guest vm on Windows
> Virtual Box or Hyper-V, WSL would barely be worth using.

WSL 2 *is* a Linux guest vm running on Hyper-V.

--
-v

Relf

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Dec 2, 2022, 1:26:40 AM12/2/22
to
Max said Apple's " main profit is still iPhone ".

Thanks to China's forced labor & air pollution.

Joel

unread,
Dec 2, 2022, 2:03:33 AM12/2/22
to
You can either see it or not - I don't care. This form of VM is a
hog.


>>>>>> It's not an alternative to actually booting Linux.
>>>>>
>>>>> It's better than booting Linux.
>>>>>
>>>>> Dual-boot to Linux, run/test some code or app, reboot back to Windows to
>>>>> troll cola = hassle
>>>>>
>>>>> A WSL distro installs in a few minutes, and takes about 5 seconds to
>>>>> boot up from a terminal:
>>>>>
>>>>> $wsl -d Debian
>>>>
>>>> I'd rather run Linux, if I want Linux. That's why I run Windows apps
>>>> under Windows, and let WSL be a mere experiment.
>>>
>>> If you want Linux, you have it: Windows Subsystem for Linux.
>>>
>>> Are you just mad at MS for making it work well? It took them quite a
>>> while, as WSL was announced like 6 years ago.
>>
>> I'm not mad at them at all, it's a clever thing they've done, but not
>> worth much on a production machine.
>
>Wrong again, my man. I won't keep correcting you on WSL, as you seem
>hell bent on not accepting reality.
>
>bowman just setup a web server on WSL.
>
>Google for 'use wsl as a server' and you'll find interesting and
>successful stories.


I was using it merely to load up the Linux version of GIMP, and it
sucked ass.

--
Joel Crump

Branimir Maksimovic

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Dec 2, 2022, 5:36:12 AM12/2/22
to
Win?

Branimir Maksimovic

unread,
Dec 2, 2022, 5:39:56 AM12/2/22
to
On 2022-12-02, Relf <Use...@Jeff-Relf.Me> wrote:
> Max said Apple's " main profit is still iPhone ".
>
> Thanks to China's forced labor & air pollution.
China...

chrisv

unread,
Dec 2, 2022, 7:57:22 AM12/2/22
to
Branimir Maksimovic wrote:

> chrisv wrote:
>> Branimir Maksimovic wrote:
>>>
>>> Won what?
>>
>> Micro$oft's capitulation. They've given-up hope of stopping Linux,
>> and now support it.
>
> Yeah, you can now run Linux desktop under Windows 11 :P>

That is *far* from the only sign of their supporting Linux (and FOSS
in general, by the way).

--
"Until Linux has a REASON for people to dump Windows they won't" -

RonB

unread,
Dec 2, 2022, 8:18:39 AM12/2/22
to
On 2022-12-02, Branimir Maksimovic <branimir....@icloud.com> wrote:
> On 2022-12-01, DFS <nos...@dfs.com> wrote:
>> "Microsoft also has 258 million paid seats for Office 365, which
>> includes access to Microsoft Teams."
>>
>>
>> https://www.theverge.com/2020/4/29/21241972/microsoft-teams-75-million-daily-active-users-stats
>>
>>
>> Linux won
> Won what?

Super computers, embedded devices, Internet servers, mobile phones...

--
Freedom. Use it or lose it.

RonB

unread,
Dec 2, 2022, 8:38:51 AM12/2/22
to
On 2022-12-02, Branimir Maksimovic <branimir....@icloud.com> wrote:
> On 2022-12-01, Johnny LaRue <xxxx...@yyyyyyy.zzz> wrote:
>> On 12/1/22 10:10, DFS wrote:
>>> "Microsoft also has 258 million paid seats for Office 365, which
>>> includes access to Microsoft Teams."
>>>
>>>
>>> https://www.theverge.com/2020/4/29/21241972/microsoft-teams-75-million-daily-active-users-stats
>>>
>>>
>>> Linux won
>>
>> Linux won the back end/server room. Which is pretty easy when the
>> competition is Windows.
>>
>> The front end is still mostly Windows, but I see more Macs on desktops
>> every day.

When they move eveverything to the Cloud, the front end will be a browser
running on any OS. And Microsoft is pushing their products more and more as
a "service" you rent instead of a product you buy to install on your own
computer. According to my brother, who's been a Windows programmer for about
25 years, this move will push people away from Microsoft and towards Linux.

I guess we'll see. Inertia is a pretty hard thing to overcome.

> Which Macs? They are toys.... Macbook is ok, but rest? iMac, mini, these are
> not desktops... studio is too expensive and powerfull for desktop use...
> And they sell disk storage and ram, like they are gold...
> I really doubt they will ever pass some percent... their
> main profit is still iPhone...

I wanted to try out an application that only runs on Mac, so I bought a
MacBook Air and (later) a Mac Mini. (I figured I would keep the Mini,
because it was a lot cheaper than the Air, and I didn't need much power for
the application -- a specialized word processor.) I liked the program just
fine, but I don't like having to run a Mac to use it. So both Macs will be
sold. A failed experiment for me, but I'm glad I tried them. Now I know what
I'm not missing.

RonB

unread,
Dec 2, 2022, 8:44:56 AM12/2/22
to
On 2022-12-02, Branimir Maksimovic <branimir....@icloud.com> wrote:
> On 2022-12-02, Relf <Use...@Jeff-Relf.Me> wrote:
>> Max said Apple's " main profit is still iPhone ".
>>
>> Thanks to China's forced labor & air pollution.
> China...

Biden won't even give lip service support to the protesters in China. His
spokesman (I think Kirby) said something like -- "the protesters speak for
themselves."

At least Canada's Empty Suit Trudeau hypocritically supports the protesters
in China, saying the right to protest is a fundamental right. I guess he
forgets about his own country and their protest against Covid restrictions
that he squashed. There's nothing behind that Empty Suit's eyes -- he
confirms it every time he opens his mouth.

RonB

unread,
Dec 2, 2022, 8:51:15 AM12/2/22
to
On 2022-12-02, Branimir Maksimovic <branimir....@icloud.com> wrote:
Zero interest in Microsoft Office 365. I think there's even a free version
of it now? (Or maybe it's a trial version -- never followed the link.) I
don't use Google Docs either. I don't like using somebody else's computer
on the Cloud for what I can do locally on my own computer. Especially not
for Office or Google Docs.

DFS

unread,
Dec 2, 2022, 9:12:18 AM12/2/22
to
On 12/2/2022 5:36 AM, Branimir Maksimovic wrote:
> On 2022-12-02, DFS <nos...@dfs.com> wrote:
>> On 12/1/2022 7:08 PM, Branimir Maksimovic wrote:
>>> On 2022-12-01, DFS <nos...@dfs.com> wrote:
>>>> "Microsoft also has 258 million paid seats for Office 365, which
>>>> includes access to Microsoft Teams."
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> https://www.theverge.com/2020/4/29/21241972/microsoft-teams-75-million-daily-active-users-stats
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Linux won
>>> Won what?
>>
>> Linux will win.
>
> Win?

Linux is winning.




Branimir Maksimovic

unread,
Dec 2, 2022, 10:08:58 AM12/2/22
to
On 2022-12-02, chrisv <chr...@nospam.invalid> wrote:
> Branimir Maksimovic wrote:
>
>> chrisv wrote:
>>> Branimir Maksimovic wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Won what?
>>>
>>> Micro$oft's capitulation. They've given-up hope of stopping Linux,
>>> and now support it.
>>
>> Yeah, you can now run Linux desktop under Windows 11 :P>
>
> That is *far* from the only sign of their supporting Linux (and FOSS
> in general, by the way).
>
I have sql server on Linux, works good :P

DFS

unread,
Dec 2, 2022, 10:12:01 AM12/2/22
to
As I understand it WSL2 uses Hyper-V architecture. but it's a distinct
product; you don't need the Hyper-V app installed to run WSL2 distros.

And distros running in Hyper-V vms don't perform like WSL2.

Branimir Maksimovic

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Dec 2, 2022, 10:12:30 AM12/2/22
to
Well, networking code is superior....

Branimir Maksimovic

unread,
Dec 2, 2022, 10:26:03 AM12/2/22
to
On 2022-12-02, RonB <ronb02...@gmail.com> wrote:
> On 2022-12-02, Branimir Maksimovic <branimir....@icloud.com> wrote:
>> On 2022-12-01, Johnny LaRue <xxxx...@yyyyyyy.zzz> wrote:
>>> On 12/1/22 10:10, DFS wrote:
>>>> "Microsoft also has 258 million paid seats for Office 365, which
>>>> includes access to Microsoft Teams."
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> https://www.theverge.com/2020/4/29/21241972/microsoft-teams-75-million-daily-active-users-stats
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Linux won
>>>
>>> Linux won the back end/server room. Which is pretty easy when the
>>> competition is Windows.
>>>
>>> The front end is still mostly Windows, but I see more Macs on desktops
>>> every day.
>
> When they move eveverything to the Cloud, the front end will be a browser
> running on any OS. And Microsoft is pushing their products more and more as
> a "service" you rent instead of a product you buy to install on your own
> computer. According to my brother, who's been a Windows programmer for about
> 25 years, this move will push people away from Microsoft and towards Linux.
>

Cloud is just space. Of course renting is more profitable, but browsers,
can't do everything...

> I guess we'll see. Inertia is a pretty hard thing to overcome.
>
>> Which Macs? They are toys.... Macbook is ok, but rest? iMac, mini, these are
>> not desktops... studio is too expensive and powerfull for desktop use...
>> And they sell disk storage and ram, like they are gold...
>> I really doubt they will ever pass some percent... their
>> main profit is still iPhone...
>
> I wanted to try out an application that only runs on Mac, so I bought a
> MacBook Air and (later) a Mac Mini. (I figured I would keep the Mini,
> because it was a lot cheaper than the Air, and I didn't need much power for
> the application -- a specialized word processor.) I liked the program just
> fine, but I don't like having to run a Mac to use it. So both Macs will be
> sold. A failed experiment for me, but I'm glad I tried them. Now I know what
> I'm not missing.

I bought Macbook Air to try M1 processor.... satisfied with it, but Apple
didn't publish matrix coprocessor instructions, so mainly I program it
as ordinary aarch64 processor... they want no competition on their products.
Also, they don't care about backward compatibility.
Imagine that, on Ventura, you can't set system wide proxy server...
option is there. but does nothing. Still after first release of Ventura,
they didn't bother to correct that. Also copy link for shared file
on iCloud does nothing. So I don't know how to share link
to ICloud file, as there is no option on web site :P

Branimir Maksimovic

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Dec 2, 2022, 10:28:01 AM12/2/22
to
On 2022-12-02, RonB <ronb02...@gmail.com> wrote:
West supports dictatorships, when it is in their interrest. Look Serbia:
they tolerate dictatorship, because Vucic obeys everything they want...

Branimir Maksimovic

unread,
Dec 2, 2022, 10:29:32 AM12/2/22
to
On 2022-12-02, RonB <ronb02...@gmail.com> wrote:
I bought Softmaker which works on all three OS's.

Branimir Maksimovic

unread,
Dec 2, 2022, 10:30:48 AM12/2/22
to
Glad to hear that :P
But Gnome now displays idiotic error message when
something fails :P

DFS

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Dec 2, 2022, 11:09:07 AM12/2/22
to
On 12/1/2022 7:23 PM, Branimir Maksimovic wrote:

> I play more then 400 games on Linux.

400? Don't forget to feed the dog.



> Don't have Windows.

branimir....@icloud.com

Have you gone insane?




chrisv

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Dec 2, 2022, 4:58:27 PM12/2/22
to
Branimir Maksimovic wrote:

>West supports dictatorships, when it is in their interrest.

Of course we do. There's no bastard too evil, if he's on "our side"
against some other perceived enemy.

--
Advocate (sarcastically): Hey, having more than one desktop
environment is a "waste of talent and effort", man! Don't you know
we'd all be better-off if "The Committee" decided which one is best
and everyone could focus their efforts on the best one?

"Hadron" Quack (serious): Pretty much yeah.....

Branimir Maksimovic

unread,
Dec 2, 2022, 5:20:42 PM12/2/22
to
On 2022-12-02, chrisv <chr...@nospam.invalid> wrote:
> Branimir Maksimovic wrote:
>
>>West supports dictatorships, when it is in their interrest.
>
> Of course we do. There's no bastard too evil, if he's on "our side"
> against some other perceived enemy.
>
I read propaganda one side, propaganda other side.
Where can we read truth?

rbowman

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Dec 2, 2022, 9:33:22 PM12/2/22
to
On Fri, 02 Dec 2022 22:20:38 GMT, Branimir Maksimovic wrote:


> I read propaganda one side, propaganda other side. Where can we read
> truth?

John 18:38

If only they were more creative. In WWI, Britain summoned some of their
leading authors to Wellington House to create propaganda. Raping nuns,
bayoneting babies, executing civilians, and on and on. If any of the
writers were still alive they could collect royalties.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wellington_House
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atrocity_propaganda#World_War_I


Relf

unread,
Dec 3, 2022, 1:42:21 AM12/3/22
to
You (rBowman) replied ( to Max ):
> > I read propaganda one side, propaganda other side. Where can we read truth ?
>
> [ Rome's Pontius Pilate said Jesus was innocent ] John 18:38

Everyone is innocent, including the freak killing the freak killing the freak.

Dictators express their "love" one bomb at a time.
Putin "loves" Ukraine more than all other dictators combined.

If you _win_ the bloody war, you get the clean, natural gas;
if you lose, you get the dirty wood|coal.

whodat

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Dec 3, 2022, 10:02:36 AM12/3/22
to
All solutions are temporary.

RonB

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Dec 3, 2022, 11:06:06 AM12/3/22
to
The Mac Mini I bought is an old (2012), cheap i5. The application just
needed MacOS 10.13 or above. I did add memory to it and I made sure I got
one with an SSD instead of a hard drive. It works well enough. I just don't
like the Mac OS. Been using Linux too long.

RonB

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Dec 3, 2022, 11:12:00 AM12/3/22
to
Me too. I use it maybe once or twice every two months, but it's the word
processor I go to when I need a word processor. I've tried it on all three
platforms but use it on Linux. In my opinion it's well worth it — especially
since they put it on sale all the time for next to nothing. SoftMaker has
been at it for a long time.

-hh

unread,
Dec 10, 2022, 9:21:02 AM12/10/22
to
On Friday, December 2, 2022 at 8:38:51 AM UTC-5, RonB wrote:
> On 2022-12-02, Branimir Maksimovic <branimir....@icloud.com> wrote:
> > …
> > Which Macs? They are toys.... Macbook is ok, but rest? iMac, mini, these are
> > not desktops... studio is too expensive and powerfull for desktop use...

“Too powerful” is highly dependent on workflow capability needs.

> > And they sell disk storage and ram, like they are gold...

Which has high performance, so it similarly depends on if the user’s workflow
needs it or not. The good news is that basic PCs have become “good enough”
for a large slice of users, resulting in nice, low price points for basic capability.

> > I really doubt they will ever pass some percent... their
> > main profit is still iPhone...

The puck has been moving towards mobile devices for close to two decades now,
which makes sense.

> I wanted to try out an application that only runs on Mac, so I bought a
> MacBook Air and (later) a Mac Mini. (I figured I would keep the Mini,
> because it was a lot cheaper than the Air, and I didn't need much power for
> the application -- a specialized word processor.) I liked the program just
> fine, but I don't like having to run a Mac to use it. So both Macs will be
> sold. A failed experiment for me, but I'm glad I tried them. Now I know what
> I'm not missing.

I could put them to use, so I’d potentially a buyer. Let me know.

-hh
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