E.U. Revises Scale of Anti-Trust Fines
B Gruff
quite determined to stamp out anti-competitive behaviour!
DFS
> I haven't done any sums on this lot, but it would appear that the
> E.U. is quite determined to stamp out anti-competitive behaviour!
Unfortunately, your link doesn't support your claim. I thought for sure
"[stamping] out anti-competitive behaviour" meant the EU Competition
Commission was going to disband itself and let market competition rule the
day.
But the content in your link does not say that :( It appears the EU is as
anti-MS and anti-competitive as ever.
Da'Punk-A
DFS wrote:
> B Gruff wrote:
> > I haven't done any sums on this lot, but it would appear that the
> > E.U. is quite determined to stamp out anti-competitive behaviour!
>
> Unfortunately, your link doesn't support your claim. I thought for sure
> "[stamping] out anti-competitive behaviour" meant the EU Competition
> Commission was going to disband itself and let market competition rule the
> day.
>
> But the content in your link does not say that :( It appears the EU is as
> anti-MS and anti-competitive as ever.
'Fraid not, DFS. I realise that you like revising history to suit your
point of view, but the linked article merely demonstrates that the
European Competition Commissioner wants, as always, to stamp out
anti-competitive practices that harm the interests of European citizens
and businesses.
What Commissioner Neelie Kroes is doing is finding the most effective
way to ensure that law-breakers stop breaking the law. As Kroes says:
"Fines are one of the means to ensure that companies do not engage in
anticompetitive behaviour. To that end, fines must be set at a level
that ensures sufficient deterrence. This implies that fines should not
only punish past behaviour, but also that their level will deter that
particular company, or any other, from entering into illegal behaviour
in the future."
If they were dealing with an individual rather than a company,
imprisonment would also be one of the steps to consider. But it's
difficult to prove that one executive in particular is the responsible
party who should be sent down. Shame really, a stretch in jail might
help Gates with his humility problem. Still, the bottom line is the
spot that hurts a company the most. And a fine must be high, so it
substantially affects profits. This angers shareholders, and makes it
more likely they will discourage the company from messing with the law
again. Read the article again - Kroes goes on about how to discourage
criminal behaviour. Microsoft is a criminal organisation. Isn't that
what the USA has its RICO statutes for? To deal with organised crime?
Don Gates, LMAO!
I think the European Commission should just ban Microsoft from dealing
in Europe. That'd annoy some people in the short term, but they'd get
over it. And in the end they would be grateful that someone had made
them use a different OS - one that worked, one that didn't spend every
other minute trying to rip them off any way that came to mind.
DFS
> DFS wrote:
>> B Gruff wrote:
>>> I haven't done any sums on this lot, but it would appear that the
>>> E.U. is quite determined to stamp out anti-competitive behaviour!
>>
>> Unfortunately, your link doesn't support your claim. I thought for
>> sure "[stamping] out anti-competitive behaviour" meant the EU
>> Competition Commission was going to disband itself and let market
>> competition rule the day.
>>
>> But the content in your link does not say that :( It appears the
>> EU is as anti-MS and anti-competitive as ever.
>
> 'Fraid not, DFS. I realise that you like revising history to suit
> your point of view, but the linked article merely demonstrates that
> the European Competition Commissioner wants, as always, to stamp out
> anti-competitive practices that harm the interests of European
> citizens and businesses.
How have they been harmed? Besides MS competitors (whiners), what EU
citizen or business has complained that MS harmed them? Don't let me down,
now; bring some evidence.
> What Commissioner Neelie Kroes is doing is finding the most effective
> way to ensure that law-breakers stop breaking the law. As Kroes says:
OK. What laws did they break?
It's a sad joke. For more than a decade the EU countries purchased MS
software by the millions, thus helping to build and consolidate and maintain
MS' monopoly position. Now they turn around, and at the behest of some
large corporations, they try and make MS behave the way they - not the
marketplace - want.
> If they were dealing with an individual rather than a company,
> imprisonment would also be one of the steps to consider. But it's
> difficult to prove that one executive in particular is the responsible
> party who should be sent down.
The parties responsible for hugely successful businesses like MS should be
rewarded.
> Shame really, a stretch in jail might
> help Gates with his humility problem.
Why should he be humble? He's the most successful businessman in history.
His company dominates its industry. Some of his product lines have/had near
100% market shares. People love his software products. Businesses clamor
to get into partnership with MS. The Queen of England gives him honorary
titles. He's the biggest philanthropist of all time. The President of
China visits him before visiting the President of the US. He hosts annual
CEO Summits attended by the most powerful business leaders in the world.
What's to be humble about?
And what do you suppose a cola pipsqueak like yourself (or any of the
"advocates" here) could teach him - about anything?
> Still, the bottom line is the
> spot that hurts a company the most. And a fine must be high, so it
> substantially affects profits. This angers shareholders, and makes it
> more likely they will discourage the company from messing with the law
> again. Read the article again - Kroes goes on about how to discourage
> criminal behaviour. Microsoft is a criminal organisation.
Not any more than you're a criminal.
> Isn't that
> what the USA has its RICO statutes for? To deal with organised crime?
> Don Gates, LMAO!
Da'Punk-A. ROFL!
When are you going to drop that absurd nym? What are you, 12, with a
bedroom wall covered in Vanilla Ice posters?
> I think the European Commission should just ban Microsoft from dealing
> in Europe. That'd annoy some people in the short term, but they'd get
> over it.
Banning MS (and Windows) in Europe would do far more than annoy people. It
would cause significant economic hardship for many millions. It would
devastate the education system. Infuriate the millions who play Windows
games. Shut down nearly all hardware OEMs. Close down nearly every
computer store.
In short, a catastrophe.
> And in the end they would be grateful that someone had made
> them use a different OS
It would take years and many billions of additional funds to [attempt to]
replace Windows with Linux in the EU, and in th end it would be a gross
failure as millions of users come to realize there is no good alternative
for many Windows programs, soon after which Windows piracy rates would jump
significantly.
> - one that worked,
Windows does work - that's why the world uses it. That's why all successful
corporations choose it for their desktops (and for a lot of server work).
On the other hand, Linux can hardly be given away.
> one that didn't spend every other minute trying
> to rip them off any way that came to mind.
How can it "rip anyone off" when it's a freely made choice to buy and use
Windows?
Rick
> B Gruff wrote:
>> I haven't done any sums on this lot, but it would appear that the E.U.
>> is quite determined to stamp out anti-competitive behaviour!
>
> Unfortunately, your link doesn't support your claim. I thought for sure
> "[stamping] out anti-competitive behaviour" meant the EU Competition
> Commission was going to disband itself and let market competition rule the
> day.
>
> But the content in your link does not say that :( It appears the EU is
> as anti-MS and anti-competitive as ever.
No, it appears you are as dishonest as ever.
Da'Punk-A
Okay, DFS - normally your childish trolling needs no more than a brief
exposure to the light of truth. But you have chosen to stoop to
personal offensiveness with me again, so I'll take some time and refute
your bullshit step by step.
You asked me: "How have they been harmed? Besides MS competitors
(whiners), what EU citizen or business has complained MS has harmed
them? Don't let me down now; bring some evidence."
For a start, anti-competitive behaviour is bound to harm competitors.
That's so obvious it /should/ be beyond stating. But you want to
ignore it. Surprise surprise. That's like saying: "Name one person
harmed by Jack the Ripper other than the prostitutes of London." As
for me demanding that I prove the European Competition Commission's
case - that's puerile. The Commission already did that. Whether it
was to your satisfaction or not is irrelevant. And anyway, you want
the nitty-gritty - read the ECC's papers. I don't work for the
Commission.
Then you ask me what laws have been broken. I don't know. IANAL. But
it stands to reason that Microsoft have broken European competition
laws, otherwise they wouldn't be punished for it. Unless you are
claiming that they're victims of a miscarriage of justice. Is that
what you think? If so, it's down to /you/ to prove your case.
Microsoft lost their right to a presumption of innocence when the
European Commission found them in breach of the law. That's not my
opinion. That's the opinion of the Commission. Read the article.
When I call Microsoft lawbreakers, I'm repeating what Kroes said. I'm
not an expert on European competition law, and I'm not in possession of
all the facts. Neither are you. I'm commenting on what's been said by
someone who /is/ a fully-informed expert. You are talking out your
ass.
You ask why Gates should be humble. You say he's a very successful
businessman. I agree -phenomenally successful. If getting on well in
commerce and making shed-loads of money was a good way to measure
overall success, he's got it cracked. He's lacking in certain
character aspects however (I say that on the basis of the way I've seen
him speak in public, and on the way he has treated other members of his
profession). And anyway, /everyone/ needs humility. Whether you're
king of the world or a begger. No one is perfect, and acceptance of
that fact is humility. Unless you contend that Gates /is/ perfect?
And then you stoop to abusing me personally. You say I'm juvenile.
Why? Because of my nym? And Vanilla Ice?! Shit!! I assume you chose
him to be my poster idol because he's white and "wishes he was black",
no doubt in reference to when I took exception to some racist shit you
came out with. At least you seem to have finally believed that I'm not
black myself. Do me a favour though, if you have to insult me in that
way, call me an Eminem fan. I actually like Eminem. But Vanilla
fucking Ice?! That's the kind of abuse that would send someone less
stable than me over the edge, travelling to America and tracing IP
numbers and whatever, so as to "pop a cap in your honkey ass".
You're right that banning Microsoft products would cause a lot of
problems. I only said it to wind you up. But yeah - Microsoft have
insinuated themselves so deeply into Western society now, it'd take a
long time to get over their disappearance. Not that I'd care. As long
as it annoyed you, I'd be quite happy.
Nearly all the points you made above are either lies or stupidity,
proven by reading what the European Competition Commission said, or are
sad attempts to get at me. But you can't seriously wind me up - you
know nothing about me save what I have chosen to reveal. And those may
be lies anyway. I know your MO - I've seen you sniping at Rex Ballard
and Roy Shestovitch (sorry Roy, can't remember how you spell your
name). You haven't made one serious refutation of anything I or the OP
said. Because you can't.
Fact: Microsoft has been found in breach of European Competition laws.
Fact: they're in trouble for it. Fact: Gates, like the rest of the
human race, could do with a little humility. Fact: you would dearly
love to be able to beat people up physically. But because you are
inadequate in physique as well as intellect and personality, you have
to confine your viciousness to flaming people for liking Linux.
Fact: if Microsoft was as safe as you say from being overtaken by
Linux, you wouldn't need to defend it and attack its detractors. But
your inadequacies are many and varied.
DFS
> Okay, DFS - normally your childish trolling needs no more than a brief
> exposure to the light of truth. But you have chosen to stoop to
> personal offensiveness with me again,
How can someone who uses a nym like Da'Punk-A be offended?
> so I'll take some time and
> refute your bullshit step by step.
No you won't. You'll disagree with it, but you won't, and can't, refute it.
> You asked me: "How have they been harmed? Besides MS competitors
> (whiners), what EU citizen or business has complained MS has harmed
> them? Don't let me down now; bring some evidence."
>
> For a start, anti-competitive behaviour is bound to harm competitors.
It was your claim that MS harmed the interests of EU citizens and
businesses. So let's see some proof.
Nearly all business activity is anti-competitive. That's what they're
supposed to do: beat the competition. That means Pepsi staging a blind
taste test challenge. That means means Ford comparing its autos to Chevy's.
Don't take it so hard: Linux has less trunk space than Windows.
> That's so obvious it /should/ be beyond stating. But you want to
> ignore it. Surprise surprise. That's like saying: "Name one person
> harmed by Jack the Ripper other than the prostitutes of London."
Typical ridiculous, slimy, cola "advocate" tactic of mentioning a serial
killer or violence or other heinous activity alongside MS.
> As for me demanding that I prove the European Competition Commission's
> case - that's puerile. The Commission already did that.
duh. How can they not prove a case they brought against MS for "breaking
their laws"?
> Whether it was to your satisfaction or not is irrelevant. And anyway, you
> want
> the nitty-gritty - read the ECC's papers. I don't work for the
> Commission.
But you like to speak for them.
> Then you ask me what laws have been broken. I don't know. IANAL.
> But it stands to reason that Microsoft have broken European
> competition laws, otherwise they wouldn't be punished for it.
You're naive. They're being punished for being a huge, successful, dominant
American corporation in the EU's backyard. That's it. They already
more-than-complied with the EU's requests, but that was deemed not good
enough. You watch and mark my words - the EU won't be satisfied until MS
themselves is forced to actually write Windows-compatible server software
for the complainants.
> Unless you are claiming that they're victims of a miscarriage of justice.
> Is that what you think? If so, it's down to /you/ to prove your case.
They're paying a pretty penny for lawyers to do that.
> Microsoft lost their right to a presumption of innocence when the
> European Commission found them in breach of the law. That's not my
> opinion. That's the opinion of the Commission.
Exactly: that's their *opinion*. An opinion created retroactively after
years and years of financial support of MS, after helping them build the
monopoly position in server software, which protocols they're now forcing MS
to reveal at the end of a huge, unconscionable, abuse-of-power ruling.
> Read the article.
I did (parts anyway). That article isn't about MS.
> When I call Microsoft lawbreakers, I'm repeating what Kroes said. I'm
> not an expert on European competition law, and I'm not in possession
> of all the facts. Neither are you. I'm commenting on what's been
> said by someone who /is/ a fully-informed expert. You are talking
> out your ass.
Of course not.
> And then you stoop to abusing me personally. You say I'm juvenile.
> Why? Because of my nym?
You're right on top of things here.
> And Vanilla Ice?! Shit!! I assume you
> chose him to be my poster idol because he's white and "wishes he was
> black", no doubt in reference to when I took exception to some racist
> shit you came out with.
In reference to your nym. If you don't have a CD case full of (c)rap music,
my name isn't DFS.
And it wasn't racist shit; it was racist truth.
> At least you seem to have finally believed that I'm not black myself.
I don't know what you are, but no well-adjusted, self-respecting White youth
would use a nym that sounds like it came from a "Monsters of Rap" poster.
> Do me a favour though, if you have to insult me in that
> way, call me an Eminem fan. I actually like Eminem.
Well, of course you do. You graduated from Vanilla Ice to Eminem in your
mid-teens.
> But Vanilla fucking Ice?! That's the kind of abuse that
> would send someone less stable than me over the edge, travelling to
> America and tracing IP numbers and whatever, so as to "pop a cap in
> your honkey ass".
The fact that you're thinking about that kind of thing shows what kind of
little boy you are. That's because you listen to (c)rap music, the single
most vile, vulgar, guttural, mumbling/shouting, obscene, pointless, idiotic
type of music there is. Luckily for the world, (c)rappers regularly kill
each other in the streets.
> You're right that banning Microsoft products would cause a lot of
> problems. I only said it to wind you up. But yeah - Microsoft have
> insinuated themselves so deeply into Western society now, it'd take a
> long time to get over their disappearance. Not that I'd care. As
> long as it annoyed you, I'd be quite happy.
One day you'll understand that annoying 5 million people to annoy one is a
very juvenile behavior.
> Nearly all the points you made above are either lies or stupidity,
> proven by reading what the European Competition Commission said, or
> are sad attempts to get at me. But you can't seriously wind me up -
> you know nothing about me save what I have chosen to reveal. And
> those may be lies anyway.
What are you lying about?
> I know your MO - I've seen you sniping at
> Rex Ballard and Roy Shestovitch (sorry Roy, can't remember how you
> spell your name).
Why are you bringing up the top 2 cola liars?
> You haven't made one serious refutation of
> anything I or the OP said. Because you can't.
The OP didn't say anything. And you refuted yourself, of course, by
claiming MS harmed EU citizens and businesses, then failing to provide any
evidence.
> Fact: Microsoft has been found in breach of European Competition
> laws. Fact: they're in trouble for it. Fact: Gates, like the rest
> of the human race, could do with a little humility.
I disagree. He's very much entitled to whatever superiority complex he
might have (which I have not seen demonstrated in the few times I've seen
him speak on TV).
> Fact: you would dearly love to be able to beat people up physically.
I do like to watch boxing and the Ultimate Fight Championships from time to
time, and imagine how I'd fight. But I'm not a trained fighter (besides a
blue-belt in karate 25 years ago). I'm a software developer.
> But because you are inadequate in physique
How would you know?
> as well as intellect and personality,
Keep telling yourself that as you continue to read my posts and respond.
cola nut Kelsey Bjarnason does the same thing: tells me I'm stupid but goes
to great lengths to refute every point I make.
> you have to confine your viciousness to flaming people for liking Linux.
I'm not vicious; I'm forceful. I give it back to cola Linux fools as good
as they give it. And I've never said anything close to some of the
viciousness and stupidity I've read coming out of cola "advocates" foul
mouths.
> Fact: if Microsoft was as safe as you say from being overtaken by
> Linux, you wouldn't need to defend it and attack its detractors.
Is that the best "advocacy" you can come up with? Even Rex Ballard can do
better than that.
MS isn't safe from Linux. Linux already has earned a good chunk of the
server business. The desktop is another matter altogether - there Linux
isn't a contender. I seriously doubt it ever will be.
> But your inadequacies are many and varied.
I'm not sure I understand how you know so much about me, but claim I know so
little about you.
Jamie Hart
> Da'Punk-A wrote:
>
>> Okay, DFS - normally your childish trolling needs no more than a brief
>> exposure to the light of truth. But you have chosen to stoop to
>> personal offensiveness with me again,
>
> How can someone who uses a nym like Da'Punk-A be offended?
>
>
>
>> so I'll take some time and
>> refute your bullshit step by step.
>
> No you won't. You'll disagree with it, but you won't, and can't, refute it.
>
Nope, he'll refute it, and so will I.
>
>
>> You asked me: "How have they been harmed? Besides MS competitors
>> (whiners), what EU citizen or business has complained MS has harmed
>> them? Don't let me down now; bring some evidence."
>>
>> For a start, anti-competitive behaviour is bound to harm competitors.
>
> It was your claim that MS harmed the interests of EU citizens and
> businesses. So let's see some proof.
>
The European commission found that Microsoft had used it's near monopoly
position to thwart competitors.
This meant that those competitors A) could not get a toehold in the
market or B) were put out of business. In either case, those
competitors products or services are not available to EU citizens and
companies thus harming those citizens or companies who would want to buy
those products or services.
> Nearly all business activity is anti-competitive. That's what they're
> supposed to do: beat the competition. That means Pepsi staging a blind
> taste test challenge. That means means Ford comparing its autos to Chevy's.
>
Nearly all business may be anti-competitive, however 100% of business
must be carried out within the laws in force in the jurisdiction within
which the business operates.
Note that 100%? That means that _every_ company must obey the laws
wherever they do business, or face the consequences. Microsoft did not
obey the anti-competition law in the European Union, now they are being
punished.
> Don't take it so hard: Linux has less trunk space than Windows.
>
Irrelevant, stick to the matter at hand.
>
>
>> That's so obvious it /should/ be beyond stating. But you want to
>> ignore it. Surprise surprise. That's like saying: "Name one person
>> harmed by Jack the Ripper other than the prostitutes of London."
>
> Typical ridiculous, slimy, cola "advocate" tactic of mentioning a serial
> killer or violence or other heinous activity alongside MS.
>
It still showed up your hypocrisy.
>
>
>> As for me demanding that I prove the European Competition Commission's
>> case - that's puerile. The Commission already did that.
>
> duh. How can they not prove a case they brought against MS for "breaking
> their laws"?
>
By not finding the evidence to prove their case. The same as any other
case. Are you really that naive or are you trying desperately to
bolster a losing argument.
>
>> Whether it was to your satisfaction or not is irrelevant. And anyway, you
>> want
>> the nitty-gritty - read the ECC's papers. I don't work for the
>> Commission.
>
> But you like to speak for them.
>
Nope, no one is speaking for them, just reporting on their findings.
>
>
>> Then you ask me what laws have been broken. I don't know. IANAL.
>> But it stands to reason that Microsoft have broken European
>> competition laws, otherwise they wouldn't be punished for it.
>
> You're naive. They're being punished for being a huge, successful, dominant
> American corporation in the EU's backyard. That's it. They already
> more-than-complied with the EU's requests, but that was deemed not good
> enough. You watch and mark my words - the EU won't be satisfied until MS
> themselves is forced to actually write Windows-compatible server software
> for the complainants.
>
None of that has been proved. It is all just your opinion, we at least
are providing facts that can be checked. You, you're just providing
unsubstantiated opinion.
Face it, you've lost.
>
>
>> Unless you are claiming that they're victims of a miscarriage of justice.
>> Is that what you think? If so, it's down to /you/ to prove your case.
>
> They're paying a pretty penny for lawyers to do that.
>
And failing miserably.
>
>
>> Microsoft lost their right to a presumption of innocence when the
>> European Commission found them in breach of the law. That's not my
>> opinion. That's the opinion of the Commission.
>
> Exactly: that's their *opinion*. An opinion created retroactively after
> years and years of financial support of MS, after helping them build the
> monopoly position in server software, which protocols they're now forcing MS
> to reveal at the end of a huge, unconscionable, abuse-of-power ruling.
>
More of your opinions, unsubstantiated. Why do you expect us to believe
anything if you can't provide even the slightest proof.
>
>
>> Read the article.
>
> I did (parts anyway). That article isn't about MS.
>
>
>
>> When I call Microsoft lawbreakers, I'm repeating what Kroes said. I'm
>> not an expert on European competition law, and I'm not in possession
>> of all the facts. Neither are you. I'm commenting on what's been
>> said by someone who /is/ a fully-informed expert. You are talking
>> out your ass.
>
> Of course not.
>
Not out of your ass, but you are certainly pontificating without proof.
Do me a favor, provide one link to a report where a court, any court has
found Microsoft not guilty of anti-competitive practices in the EU.
If you can't, then there's no point arguing with you, you counter facts
with rhetoric, and not even good rhetoric at that.
Peter Jensen
Hash: SHA1
DFS wrote:
>> I think the European Commission should just ban Microsoft from
>> dealing in Europe. That'd annoy some people in the short term, but
>> they'd get over it.
>
> Banning MS (and Windows) in Europe would do far more than annoy
> people. It would cause significant economic hardship for many
> millions.
No. If anything, it would promote local development of software.
> It would devastate the education system.
I can't for the life of me imagine why. For one, a ban on Microsoft
would be for sale of new products, so the next migration will just have
to be to something other than Microsoft products the next time.
Secondly, you seriously overestimate their importance in the educational
system. Linux is actually more suited for school deployment, as it's
cheaper and can easily be secured against kids with too much time,
trying to mess them up. Oh, and my University department runs on a
Solaris/Linux mainframe/terminal mix. Works just fine, and I haven't
had to worry about the instability of Windows for a long while.
> Infuriate the millions who play Windows games.
By the time they need to upgrade their computers and OS, all games will
definitely be written for Linux as well (many are today, and most run
perfectly in Cedega). Or are you suggesting that the game manufacturers
will just ignore a market of some 450 million people in the EU? Don't
make me laugh.
> Shut down nearly all hardware OEMs.
This one you'll have to explain. It makes no sense. Unless you mean
that less new hardware will be required because Linux extends the
lifetime of older hardware. In that case, you might have a point.
However, it is still better for the economy as a whole (think broken
window fallacy).
> Close down nearly every computer store.
Again, why? Are people suddenly going to abandon computers entirely,
just because Microsoft products will no longer be available? Don't make
me laugh. People are switching every day, so obviously Microsoft aren't
*that* important. Step out of the RDF, please.
> In short, a catastrophe.
Nothing you have said would indicate that.
>> And in the end they would be grateful that someone had made them use
>> a different OS
>
> It would take years and many billions of additional funds to [attempt
> to] replace Windows with Linux in the EU, and in th end it would be a
> gross failure as millions of users come to realize there is no good
> alternative for many Windows programs, soon after which Windows piracy
> rates would jump significantly.
Again you're assuming that ISVs will just quietly ignore the 450 million
people market that won't be running Microsoft software in the future.
Again, don't make me laugh. Most of them are not quite as loyal to
Microsoft as you obviously are.
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--
PeKaJe
Quantity is no substitute for quality, but its the only one we've got.
Da'Punk-A
DFS wrote:
<snippety-snip>
>
> I'm not sure I understand how you know so much about me, but claim I know so
> little about you.
You're right - I know /nothing/ about you. The assumptions I made were
concerning your propensity to flame people who disagree with you. In
my experience, those jerks who insult people when they're out of reach
(eg. over the phone, half-way down the road, or anonymously on the
internet) are sad geeks who would love to be "mean and tough" but sadly
can't pull it off IRL.
And you know nothing about me, which is why you can't truly insult me.
You said I "graduated to Eminem when I was a teenager". What makes you
think I'd even heard of Eminem when I was a teenager? You don't know
how old I am, and pretending you can guess my age is ridiculous. I
think I may be older than most posters here. Then again, I may still
be at school. Fact is, you know nothing.
And this business about my nym revealing that I like rap music... maybe
I like punk music. That'd explain the nym too. Or maybe it's an
acronym for something. Fact is, you know nothing.
A wintroll making groundless assumptions. How strange.
DFS
> DFS wrote:
>
> <snippety-snip>
>>
>> I'm not sure I understand how you know so much about me, but claim I
>> know so little about you.
>
> You're right - I know /nothing/ about you.
Well damn, you sure do talk a good game, going on and on about my physique,
intellect, personality, etc.
> The assumptions I made were concerning your propensity to flame people who
> disagree with
> you. In my experience, those jerks who insult people when they're
> out of reach (eg. over the phone, half-way down the road, or
> anonymously on the internet) are sad geeks who would love to be "mean
> and tough" but sadly can't pull it off IRL.
Well, I do like to argue, but in real life it just leads to bad feelings.
Online it's more of a harmless diversion.
> And you know nothing about me, which is why you can't truly insult me.
Uh huh. Which is why you get so hysterical about race and nyms and Vanilla
Ice (ROFL!).
I got your number right off the bat, which is why you won't confirm
anything.
> You said I "graduated to Eminem when I was a teenager". What makes
> you think I'd even heard of Eminem when I was a teenager? You don't
> know how old I am, and pretending you can guess my age is ridiculous.
Mid to late teens would be my guess.
> I think I may be older than most posters here. Then again, I may
> still be at school. Fact is, you know nothing.
>
> And this business about my nym revealing that I like rap music...
> maybe I like punk music. That'd explain the nym too. Or maybe it's
> an acronym for something. Fact is, you know nothing.
da' is a favorite rapper nickname prefix (Results 1 - 10 of about 2,300,000
for rappers da'.) And since you like Eminem... looks like I was right on
the money.
> A wintroll making groundless assumptions. How strange.
How can they be groundless when they're based on your nickname, which is
similar to nicks used by silly (c)rap "artists"?
Kier
He's a racist prick, and seems convinced only black kids like rap music.
Of course, he's wrong. Lots of white kids like it too.
--
Kier
arachnid
> He's a racist prick, and seems convinced only black kids like rap music.
> Of course, he's wrong. Lots of white kids like it too.
Rap isn't music, it's a form of torture.
Any civilized country would ban it.
Kier
Well, I never said *I* liked it - in fact, I don't. But not because it's a
'black' thing, which is clearly DFS's beef with it. The lyrics of a lot of
heavy metal (which I *do* like, BTW) could easily been considered equally
as unplasant and offensive as rap lyrics, but we don't see DFS calling
metal crap, because metal is a mostly white thing, sin't it?
If rappers were white, I bet he wouldn't call it (c)rap.
--
Kier
Mark Kent
Kier <val...@tiscali.co.uk> espoused:
Rap isn't music, that's for sure, it's more a sort of rhyming poetry
set to a highly repetitive beat. For the most part, the words are as
puerile as the music, but I'm sure that there are genuine exceptions.
Unfortunately, most "art" which becomes mainstream has next to zero
real content, but nearly 100% attractive performers - I'm sure rap is
no exception.
--
| Mark Kent -- mark at ellandroad dot demon dot co dot uk |
"Your mother was a hamster, and your father smelt of elderberries!"
-- Monty Python and the Holy Grail
DFS
> On Thu, 29 Jun 2006 17:07:20 +0100, Kier wrote:
>
>> He's a racist prick, and seems convinced only black kids like rap
>> music. Of course, he's wrong. Lots of white kids like it too.
Usually they grow out of it at about age 16.
> Rap isn't music, it's a form of torture.
>
> Any civilized country would ban it.
Amen to that. Want to see some rap lyrics?
=============================================
Hey yo, I smoke dust and shoot cops, sold guns to Tupac
Smoked blunts with Biggie Smalls and sold drugs on newlots
I was too young, couldnt get up in clubs back in the old days
We used rob and terrorize kids in front of homebase
If Funkmaster Flex was inside, rockin the whole place
We was outside, smacking kids and snatchin gold chains
Baggin mad pigeons, catchin mad digits, bad bitches
And when they husbands came around we had to blast bisquits
A bunch of bad Brooklyn kids that always had pistols
Broken dreams and broken homes, we always had issues
And mad problems worshippin gangstas and bankrobbers
Watchin star fade startin fights and rap conscience (?)
Until we realized how to get the real money
Steal money, kidnap money, kill money
Its funny how the money make the whole world love you
Jealous cats hate you, dime pigeons
Little ghetto children run up on you, wanna touch you
Got the IRS lookin at you, wanna fuck you
Sniffin so much blow, you dont know if you can trust you
Ecstasy react to what the cocaine and the dust do
Go against the Ill Bill, and Non Phixion will crush you, bust you
Leave you with a tube and ya throat to suck through (?)
We truck jewels, we dust brothers fuck mothers
You thugs love us, ? the gunslingers and drughustlers
Where my gangstas at?
[Cuts]
"Is you a gangsta?"
"With gangsta rap"
=============================================
Artist: 2 Live Crew
Album: As Nasty As They Wanna Be
Title: The Fuck Shop
"I know a place just down there two streets.
Baby, they'll ask you no questions and give you clean sheets!"
(gong noise)
Luke:
WELCOME TO THE FUCK SHO-O-O-OP!
Verse 1: Fresh Kid Ice
There's only one place where we can go
Where the price is right just to fuck a ho
It's always popular with the girls and the guys
'Cause for all my money, it's the best buy
Ten dollars, two hours is the time of the stay
It's more than enough time to slay
Each room has a bed and also a sink
So you can wash your dick after fucking the pink
But be careful of the things that you use
'Cause you can get arrested for sex abuse
So as you hit the door and the panties drop,
Whole lot of suckin' and fuckin' at the Fuck Shop!
Verse 2: Brother Marquis
Please come inside, make yourself at home
I want to fuck, 'cause my dick's on bone
You little whore behind closed doors
You would drink my cum and nothing more
Now spread your wings open for the flight
Let me fill you up with something milky and white
'Cause I'm hopin' to slay you, rough and painful
You innocent bitch, don't be shameful
Bring out the ice cubes and the hot water
This is the second half, and not the second quarter
I'll fuck you 'till you sleep; you'll sleep like a baby
And in your dreams, you'll say I'm crazy
In the Fuck Shop!
Luke (squeaky voice):
YOU'RE IN THE FUCK SHOP, BABEEEE!
I WANNA SEE YOU FREAK!!
Verse 3: Luke
In the Fuck Shop! That's where it's at!
In the Fuck Shop! The place to splak!
In the Fuck Shop! Where all the boys go!
In the Fuck Shop! Fuckin' all the hoes!
(gong noise)
Luke:
THANK YOU FOR FUCKIN' AT THE FUCK SHO-O-O-OP!!
=============================================
KHIA LYRICS
"My Neck, My Back"
All you ladies pop your pussy like this
Shake your body, don't stop, don't miss
All you ladies pop your pussy like this
Shake your body, don't stop, don't miss
Just do it, do it, do it, do it, do it now
Lick it good suck this pussy, just like you should
Right now, Lick it good
suck this pussy just like you should
My Neck, my back
Lick my pussy and my crack,
My Neck, my back
Lick my pussy and my crack
My Neck, my back
Lick my pussy and my crack
My Neck, my back
Lick my pussy and my crack
My Neck, my back
Lick my pussy and my crack
First you gotta put your neck into it
Don't stop, just do, do it
Then you roll your tongue, from the crack back to the front
then suck it off til I shake and cum nigga
make sure I keep bustin nuts nigga
all over your face and stuff
slow head show me so much love
the best head comes from a thug
the dick good dick big and long
slow fuckin til the crack of dawn
on the edge makin faces n stuff
Through the night, making so much love
Dead sleep when the sun comes up
So, lick it now, lick it good
Lick this pussy just like you should
Right now, lick it good
Lick this pussy just like you should
[Chorus]
My Neck, my back
Lick my pussy and my crack
My Neck, my back
Lick my pussy and my crack
You might roll dubs, you might have G's
But fuck that nigga, get on your knees
A bitch like me moans and screams
Thug misses know what I mean
At the club so fresh, so clean
Hoes hatin' niggas watchin' me
So hot in the line, on green
With a unit on my face, so mean
I gotta pick which nigga I need
to suck a thug nigga satisfy me
Try me nigga I'll make you see
them bitches aint got shit on me
So, lick it now, lick it good
Lick this pussy just like you should
Right now, lick it good
Lick this pussy just like you should
My Neck, my back
Lick my pussy and my crack
My Neck, my back
Lick my pussy and my crack
So, lick it now, lick it good
Suck this pussy just like you should
Right now, lick it good
Suck this pussy just like you should
My Neck, my back
Lick my pussy and my crack
My Neck, my back
Lick my pussy and my crack
[Chorus repeats x10]
=============================================
Kier
> begin oe_protect.scr
> Kier <val...@tiscali.co.uk> espoused:
>> On Thu, 29 Jun 2006 10:57:08 -0500, arachnid wrote:
>>
>>> On Thu, 29 Jun 2006 17:07:20 +0100, Kier wrote:
>>>
>>>> He's a racist prick, and seems convinced only black kids like rap music.
>>>> Of course, he's wrong. Lots of white kids like it too.
>>>
>>> Rap isn't music, it's a form of torture.
>>>
>>> Any civilized country would ban it.
>>
>> Well, I never said *I* liked it - in fact, I don't. But not because it's a
>> 'black' thing, which is clearly DFS's beef with it. The lyrics of a lot of
>> heavy metal (which I *do* like, BTW) could easily been considered equally
>> as unplasant and offensive as rap lyrics, but we don't see DFS calling
>> metal crap, because metal is a mostly white thing, sin't it?
>>
>> If rappers were white, I bet he wouldn't call it (c)rap.
>>
>
> Rap isn't music, that's for sure, it's more a sort of rhyming poetry
That's mostly my problem with it.
> set to a highly repetitive beat. For the most part, the words are as
> puerile as the music, but I'm sure that there are genuine exceptions.
A few. There are some rap-metal tracks which aren't so bad, but it's not a
form of music which appeals to me. I'm into stuff like Tool, Carcass,
Paradise Lost and Static-X.
> Unfortunately, most "art" which becomes mainstream has next to zero
> real content, but nearly 100% attractive performers - I'm sure rap is
> no exception.
When I was a teenager, in my peergroup it was social death to be a 'trendy' :-)
--
Kier
chrisv
>He's a racist prick,
Yet you are more than willing to exchange pleasantries with him, and
to reward his trolls with a response.
Hmm....
Kier
> arachnid wrote:
>> On Thu, 29 Jun 2006 17:07:20 +0100, Kier wrote:
>>
>>> He's a racist prick, and seems convinced only black kids like rap
>>> music. Of course, he's wrong. Lots of white kids like it too.
>
> Usually they grow out of it at about age 16.
So *you* say.
>
>
>
>> Rap isn't music, it's a form of torture.
>>
>> Any civilized country would ban it.
>
> Amen to that. Want to see some rap lyrics?
Not really, no.
Exactly what was *that* meant to prove? If you're implying that I like the
stuff, you're dead wrong. I think it's pretty stupid music, though
sometimes quite powerful when performed properly. It would be the same if
performed by black or white artists.
BTW, for someone who claims not to listen to it, you seem to know an awful
lot about it.
--
Kier
DFS
> On Thu, 29 Jun 2006 17:53:02 +0100, Mark Kent wrote:
>
>> begin oe_protect.scr
>> Kier <val...@tiscali.co.uk> espoused:
>>> On Thu, 29 Jun 2006 10:57:08 -0500, arachnid wrote:
>>>
>>>> On Thu, 29 Jun 2006 17:07:20 +0100, Kier wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> He's a racist prick, and seems convinced only black kids like rap
>>>>> music. Of course, he's wrong. Lots of white kids like it too.
>>>>
>>>> Rap isn't music, it's a form of torture.
>>>>
>>>> Any civilized country would ban it.
>>>
>>> Well, I never said *I* liked it - in fact, I don't. But not because
>>> it's a 'black' thing, which is clearly DFS's beef with it.
Only negroes could come up with a vile "music" like rap.
>>> The
>>> lyrics of a lot of heavy metal (which I *do* like, BTW) could
>>> easily been considered equally as unplasant and offensive as rap
>>> lyrics
Post some of those lyrics.
>>>, but we don't see DFS calling metal crap, because metal is a
>>> mostly white thing, sin't it?
I don't listen to any heavy metal music anymore, but in my teens I loved
Judas Priest and Black Sabbath, and some Motorhead. Apparently a lot of
metal music nowadays is kind of satanic.
I turn it off nearly as quickly as I turn off (c)rap music. I don't like
country music either (mainly I dislike that slide guitar twang).
>>> If rappers were white, I bet he wouldn't call it (c)rap.
The "best" (c)rapper IS White. The song Lose Yourself is a good song.
DFS
> On Thu, 29 Jun 2006 13:36:14 -0400, DFS wrote:
>
>> arachnid wrote:
>>> On Thu, 29 Jun 2006 17:07:20 +0100, Kier wrote:
>>>
>>>> He's a racist prick, and seems convinced only black kids like rap
>>>> music. Of course, he's wrong. Lots of white kids like it too.
>>
>> Usually they grow out of it at about age 16.
>
> So *you* say.
So I do. Let me know the next time you see a 30-year old White person
listening to rap.
>>> Rap isn't music, it's a form of torture.
>>>
>>> Any civilized country would ban it.
>>
>> Amen to that. Want to see some rap lyrics?
>
> Not really, no.
Tough. You got some anyway. Did you like it?
<snip vile obscene gutter jungle trash lyrics>
> Exactly what was *that* meant to prove?
That it's a gross caricature of music.
> If you're implying that I like the stuff, you're dead wrong.
Wasn't implying that.
> I think it's pretty stupid music,
> though sometimes quite powerful when performed properly.
What does that mean?
> It would be the same if performed by black or white artists.
No it wouldn't. (c)rap music is a black thang. White rappers are
pretenders (even though Eminem seems to be pretty good at it).
> BTW, for someone who claims not to listen to it, you seem to know an
> awful lot about it.
I know nothing about it, except as I might see it on the news or on MSNBC,
or read about a crapper being shot.
Mark Kent
Kier <val...@tiscali.co.uk> espoused:
> On Thu, 29 Jun 2006 17:53:02 +0100, Mark Kent wrote:
>
>> begin oe_protect.scr
>> Kier <val...@tiscali.co.uk> espoused:
>>> On Thu, 29 Jun 2006 10:57:08 -0500, arachnid wrote:
>>>
>>>> On Thu, 29 Jun 2006 17:07:20 +0100, Kier wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> He's a racist prick, and seems convinced only black kids like rap music.
>>>>> Of course, he's wrong. Lots of white kids like it too.
>>>>
>>>> Rap isn't music, it's a form of torture.
>>>>
>>>> Any civilized country would ban it.
>>>
>>> Well, I never said *I* liked it - in fact, I don't. But not because it's a
>>> 'black' thing, which is clearly DFS's beef with it. The lyrics of a lot of
>>> heavy metal (which I *do* like, BTW) could easily been considered equally
>>> as unplasant and offensive as rap lyrics, but we don't see DFS calling
>>> metal crap, because metal is a mostly white thing, sin't it?
>>>
>>> If rappers were white, I bet he wouldn't call it (c)rap.
>>>
>>
>> Rap isn't music, that's for sure, it's more a sort of rhyming poetry
>
> That's mostly my problem with it.
Mine too. I /like/ music!
>
>> set to a highly repetitive beat. For the most part, the words are as
>> puerile as the music, but I'm sure that there are genuine exceptions.
>
> A few. There are some rap-metal tracks which aren't so bad, but it's not a
> form of music which appeals to me. I'm into stuff like Tool, Carcass,
> Paradise Lost and Static-X.
I think I'm probably too old to have a grip on what's up and coming and
good, but there we go... I'm going to see Roger Waters on Saturday, he's
playing after the match, so one way or the other I'll have a good time.
>
>> Unfortunately, most "art" which becomes mainstream has next to zero
>> real content, but nearly 100% attractive performers - I'm sure rap is
>> no exception.
>
> When I was a teenager, in my peergroup it was social death to be a 'trendy' :-)
>
Yeah - mine too :-) We were into progressive rock when I was at school,
but increasingly turned to a different sub-culture...
Kier
> Kier wrote:
>> On Thu, 29 Jun 2006 17:53:02 +0100, Mark Kent wrote:
>>
>>> begin oe_protect.scr
>>> Kier <val...@tiscali.co.uk> espoused:
>>>> On Thu, 29 Jun 2006 10:57:08 -0500, arachnid wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> On Thu, 29 Jun 2006 17:07:20 +0100, Kier wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> He's a racist prick, and seems convinced only black kids like rap
>>>>>> music. Of course, he's wrong. Lots of white kids like it too.
>>>>>
>>>>> Rap isn't music, it's a form of torture.
>>>>>
>>>>> Any civilized country would ban it.
>>>>
>>>> Well, I never said *I* liked it - in fact, I don't. But not because
>>>> it's a 'black' thing, which is clearly DFS's beef with it.
>
> Only negroes could come up with a vile "music" like rap.
Bullshit. You really are a disgusting racist, DFS. Don't you ever try
thinking of being a decent human being? BTW, 'negroes' whent out with
segregationist crap. You're out of touch.
>
>
>
>>>> The
>>>> lyrics of a lot of heavy metal (which I *do* like, BTW) could
>>>> easily been considered equally as unplasant and offensive as rap
>>>> lyrics
>
> Post some of those lyrics.
No thanks, I have better things to do. Feel free to go looking yourself.
>
>
>
>>>>, but we don't see DFS calling metal crap, because metal is a
>>>> mostly white thing, sin't it?
>
> I don't listen to any heavy metal music anymore, but in my teens I loved
> Judas Priest and Black Sabbath, and some Motorhead. Apparently a lot of
> metal music nowadays is kind of satanic.
That's black mental. Some of that's okay. Most of what I like is more
industrial-flavoured, or nu-metal. Used to be more keen on death metal
than I am these days.
>
> I turn it off nearly as quickly as I turn off (c)rap music. I don't like
> country music either (mainly I dislike that slide guitar twang).
I'm not over-keen on country, though if you look into its development
and roots, it's quite interesting.
>
>
>
>>>> If rappers were white, I bet he wouldn't call it (c)rap.
>
> The "best" (c)rapper IS White. The song Lose Yourself is a good song.
See? You can't help being a racist twat, can you? If it's done by a white
it's okay, even if it's rap, but if it's a black guy it's automatically
crap?
Sheesh.
--
Kier
Kier
> Kier wrote:
>> On Thu, 29 Jun 2006 13:36:14 -0400, DFS wrote:
>>
>>> arachnid wrote:
>>>> On Thu, 29 Jun 2006 17:07:20 +0100, Kier wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> He's a racist prick, and seems convinced only black kids like rap
>>>>> music. Of course, he's wrong. Lots of white kids like it too.
>>>
>>> Usually they grow out of it at about age 16.
>>
>> So *you* say.
>
> So I do. Let me know the next time you see a 30-year old White person
> listening to rap.
Please don't be an idiot. Of course there are white people of that age who
listen to it. Same as they listen to dance, hip-hop, metal, etc. Of course
there will be more youngsters of both ethnic groups listening to it,
because it's a *youth* thang, mostly.
>
>
>
>
>>>> Rap isn't music, it's a form of torture.
>>>>
>>>> Any civilized country would ban it.
>>>
>>> Amen to that. Want to see some rap lyrics?
>>
>> Not really, no.
>
>
> Tough. You got some anyway. Did you like it?
Nope, not much. But I don't judge all blacks by it as you seem to.
>
> <snip vile obscene gutter jungle trash lyrics>
You're just as trashy.
>
>
>
>
>> Exactly what was *that* meant to prove?
>
> That it's a gross caricature of music.
So? You're a gross caricature of a human being.
>
>
>
>
>> If you're implying that I like the stuff, you're dead wrong.
>
> Wasn't implying that.
>
>
>
>
>> I think it's pretty stupid music,
>> though sometimes quite powerful when performed properly.
>
> What does that mean?
What it says.
>
>
>
>
>> It would be the same if performed by black or white artists.
>
> No it wouldn't. (c)rap music is a black thang. White rappers are
> pretenders (even though Eminem seems to be pretty good at it).
Try taking off your racist blinkers sometime.
>
>
>
>
>> BTW, for someone who claims not to listen to it, you seem to know an
>> awful lot about it.
>
> I know nothing about it, except as I might see it on the news or on MSNBC,
> or read about a crapper being shot.
Then you're hardly qualified to pontificate about it.
--
Kier
Da'Punk-A
DFS wrote:
> Da'Punk-A wrote:
> > DFS wrote:
> >
> > <snippety-snip>
> >>
> >> I'm not sure I understand how you know so much about me, but claim I
> >> know so little about you.
> >
> > You're right - I know /nothing/ about you.
>
> Well damn, you sure do talk a good game, going on and on about my physique,
> intellect, personality, etc.
>
>
>
> > The assumptions I made were concerning your propensity to flame people who
> > disagree with
> > you. In my experience, those jerks who insult people when they're
> > out of reach (eg. over the phone, half-way down the road, or
> > anonymously on the internet) are sad geeks who would love to be "mean
> > and tough" but sadly can't pull it off IRL.
>
> Well, I do like to argue, but in real life it just leads to bad feelings.
> Online it's more of a harmless diversion.
>
>
>
> > And you know nothing about me, which is why you can't truly insult me.
>
> Uh huh. Which is why you get so hysterical about race and nyms and Vanilla
> Ice (ROFL!).
Hhe! Hysterical? You're words on a screen.
> I got your number right off the bat, which is why you won't confirm
> anything.
Uh huh. Am I a guy or a chick? All you know is what I've chosen to
type. I lurked in this NG a long time before I ever posted. I've seen
how you wintrolls treat Linuc enthusiasts if you get any personal info.
You'd probably lie about me to my husband.
> > You said I "graduated to Eminem when I was a teenager". What makes
> > you think I'd even heard of Eminem when I was a teenager? You don't
> > know how old I am, and pretending you can guess my age is ridiculous.
>
> Mid to late teens would be my guess.
I'm definitely between 16 and 56.
> > I think I may be older than most posters here. Then again, I may
> > still be at school. Fact is, you know nothing.
> >
> > And this business about my nym revealing that I like rap music...
> > maybe I like punk music. That'd explain the nym too. Or maybe it's
> > an acronym for something. Fact is, you know nothing.
>
> da' is a favorite rapper nickname prefix (Results 1 - 10 of about 2,300,000
> for rappers da'.) And since you like Eminem... looks like I was right on
> the money.
I do like Eminem, yes. But I like all sorts of music. Difficult to
imagine, I guess, if you're as narrow minded as you seem here.
> > A wintroll making groundless assumptions. How strange.
>
> How can they be groundless when they're based on your nickname, which is
> similar to nicks used by silly (c)rap "artists"?
Your nym is an acronym for Dumb Fucking Shit. And that leads to a
not-so-groundless assumption.
Kier
> begin oe_protect.scr
> Kier <val...@tiscali.co.uk> espoused:
>> On Thu, 29 Jun 2006 17:53:02 +0100, Mark Kent wrote:
>>
>>> begin oe_protect.scr
>>> Kier <val...@tiscali.co.uk> espoused:
>>>> On Thu, 29 Jun 2006 10:57:08 -0500, arachnid wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> On Thu, 29 Jun 2006 17:07:20 +0100, Kier wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> He's a racist prick, and seems convinced only black kids like rap music.
>>>>>> Of course, he's wrong. Lots of white kids like it too.
>>>>>
>>>>> Rap isn't music, it's a form of torture.
>>>>>
>>>>> Any civilized country would ban it.
>>>>
>>>> Well, I never said *I* liked it - in fact, I don't. But not because it's a
>>>> 'black' thing, which is clearly DFS's beef with it. The lyrics of a lot of
>>>> heavy metal (which I *do* like, BTW) could easily been considered equally
>>>> as unplasant and offensive as rap lyrics, but we don't see DFS calling
>>>> metal crap, because metal is a mostly white thing, sin't it?
>>>>
>>>> If rappers were white, I bet he wouldn't call it (c)rap.
>>>>
>>>
>>> Rap isn't music, that's for sure, it's more a sort of rhyming poetry
>>
>> That's mostly my problem with it.
>
> Mine too. I /like/ music!
I just don't 'get' rap. I'm sure it filled a need for many, but I'm not
among 'em. It's a very negative kind of music, but I suppose that's
understandable, given it's roots in the hard street/gang culture.
>
>>
>>> set to a highly repetitive beat. For the most part, the words are as
>>> puerile as the music, but I'm sure that there are genuine exceptions.
>>
>> A few. There are some rap-metal tracks which aren't so bad, but it's not a
>> form of music which appeals to me. I'm into stuff like Tool, Carcass,
>> Paradise Lost and Static-X.
>
> I think I'm probably too old to have a grip on what's up and coming and
> good, but there we go... I'm going to see Roger Waters on Saturday, he's
> playing after the match, so one way or the other I'll have a good time.
I'm not so up on the latest bands as I used to be, mainly because I seem
to have less time to listen to music these days. I tend to buy Rock Sound
or Metal Hammer when they have giveaway CDs (Rock Sound has one every
month), which is a way of hearing what's new out there, but I buy fewer
CDs than I used to, as well.
I like other stuff, too, mind you. The Jam, REM,some of the heavier
non-vocal dance. Not into soul, though. Too wishy-washy. I like guitars :-)
>
>>
>>> Unfortunately, most "art" which becomes mainstream has next to zero
>>> real content, but nearly 100% attractive performers - I'm sure rap is
>>> no exception.
>>
>> When I was a teenager, in my peergroup it was social death to be a 'trendy' :-)
>>
>
> Yeah - mine too :-) We were into progressive rock when I was at school,
> but increasingly turned to a different sub-culture...
Yeah, I was into prog, too - ELP, Rush... ahhh, those were the days.
--
Kier
DFS
> On Thu, 29 Jun 2006 14:13:17 -0400, DFS wrote:
>
>> Kier wrote:
>>> On Thu, 29 Jun 2006 17:53:02 +0100, Mark Kent wrote:
>>>
>>>> begin oe_protect.scr
>>>> Kier <val...@tiscali.co.uk> espoused:
>>>>> On Thu, 29 Jun 2006 10:57:08 -0500, arachnid wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> On Thu, 29 Jun 2006 17:07:20 +0100, Kier wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> He's a racist prick, and seems convinced only black kids like
>>>>>>> rap music. Of course, he's wrong. Lots of white kids like it
>>>>>>> too.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Rap isn't music, it's a form of torture.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Any civilized country would ban it.
>>>>>
>>>>> Well, I never said *I* liked it - in fact, I don't. But not
>>>>> because it's a 'black' thing, which is clearly DFS's beef with it.
>>
>> Only negroes could come up with a vile "music" like rap.
>
> Bullshit. You really are a disgusting racist, DFS. Don't you ever try
> thinking of being a decent human being? BTW, 'negroes' whent out with
> segregationist crap. You're out of touch.
Me? When was the last time you spoke with a negro?
I have to deal with them every day.
>>>>> The
>>>>> lyrics of a lot of heavy metal (which I *do* like, BTW) could
>>>>> easily been considered equally as unplasant and offensive as rap
>>>>> lyrics
>>
>> Post some of those lyrics.
>
> No thanks, I have better things to do. Feel free to go looking
> yourself.
Meaning you couldn't find any that were nearly like that (c)rap trash.
>>>>> , but we don't see DFS calling metal crap, because metal is a
>>>>> mostly white thing, sin't it?
>>
>> I don't listen to any heavy metal music anymore, but in my teens I
>> loved Judas Priest and Black Sabbath, and some Motorhead.
>> Apparently a lot of metal music nowadays is kind of satanic.
>
> That's black mental. Some of that's okay. Most of what I like is more
> industrial-flavoured, or nu-metal. Used to be more keen on death metal
> than I am these days.
I loved the Priest, but sometime in college - when I was about 19 - I just
quit listening to it. It's too frantic.
>> I turn it off nearly as quickly as I turn off (c)rap music. I don't
>> like country music either (mainly I dislike that slide guitar twang).
>
> I'm not over-keen on country, though if you look into its development
> and roots, it's quite interesting.
My wife loves it. I like country rock like Skynyrd and Charlie Daniels
Band, and some of the ballads, but the slide guitar just grates.
Unfortunately, it's in about 80% of country songs.
>>>>> If rappers were white, I bet he wouldn't call it (c)rap.
>>
>> The "best" (c)rapper IS White. The song Lose Yourself is a good
>> song.
>
> See? You can't help being a racist twat, can you? If it's done by a
> white it's okay, even if it's rap, but if it's a black guy it's
> automatically crap?
>
> Sheesh.
No, dumbass. I like lots of Motown songs. Smokey Robinson wrote some great
tunes. Otis Redding, Marvin Gaye, others from that time. I like Prince's
music from the late 80's and early 90's (his newer stuff isn't very good
compared).
I just hate the typical (c)rap music: no melody, no meaning, just vile
jungle grunting about fucking ho's and killin' niggaz..
DFS
> On Thu, 29 Jun 2006 14:29:35 -0400, DFS wrote:
>
>> Kier wrote:
>>> On Thu, 29 Jun 2006 13:36:14 -0400, DFS wrote:
>>>
>>>> arachnid wrote:
>>>>> On Thu, 29 Jun 2006 17:07:20 +0100, Kier wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> He's a racist prick, and seems convinced only black kids like rap
>>>>>> music. Of course, he's wrong. Lots of white kids like it too.
>>>>
>>>> Usually they grow out of it at about age 16.
>>>
>>> So *you* say.
>>
>> So I do. Let me know the next time you see a 30-year old White
>> person listening to rap.
>
> Please don't be an idiot. Of course there are white people of that
> age who listen to it. Same as they listen to dance, hip-hop, metal,
> etc. Of course there will be more youngsters of both ethnic groups
> listening to it, because it's a *youth* thang, mostly.
OK. So, let me know the next time you see a 30-year old White person
listening to rap.
>> Tough. You got some anyway. Did you like it?
>
> Nope, not much. But I don't judge all blacks by it as you seem to.
>
>> <snip vile obscene gutter jungle trash lyrics>
>
> You're just as trashy.
Sure. When I'm not writing code, I'm bussin' caps in niggaz, and dealin'
smack to Tupac... ROFL@your stupidity.
>>> Exactly what was *that* meant to prove?
>>
>> That it's a gross caricature of music.
>
> So? You're a gross caricature of a human being.
So? We're not all as perfect as you.
>>> I think it's pretty stupid music,
>>> though sometimes quite powerful when performed properly.
>>
>> What does that mean?
>
> What it says.
What does it mean?
>>> It would be the same if performed by black or white artists.
>>
>> No it wouldn't. (c)rap music is a black thang. White rappers are
>> pretenders (even though Eminem seems to be pretty good at it).
>
> Try taking off your racist blinkers sometime.
Why?
>>> BTW, for someone who claims not to listen to it, you seem to know an
>>> awful lot about it.
>>
>> I know nothing about it, except as I might see it on the news or on
>> MSNBC, or read about a crapper being shot.
>
> Then you're hardly qualified to pontificate about it.
First you say I know a lot about it, then you say I'm not qualified to talk
about it. Make up your mind, weasel.
DFS
> Your nym is an acronym for Dumb Fucking Shit. And that leads to a
> not-so-groundless assumption.
Whoops... plonk
Kier
> Kier wrote:
>> On Thu, 29 Jun 2006 14:13:17 -0400, DFS wrote:
>>
>>> Kier wrote:
>>>> On Thu, 29 Jun 2006 17:53:02 +0100, Mark Kent wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> begin oe_protect.scr
>>>>> Kier <val...@tiscali.co.uk> espoused:
>>>>>> On Thu, 29 Jun 2006 10:57:08 -0500, arachnid wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On Thu, 29 Jun 2006 17:07:20 +0100, Kier wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> He's a racist prick, and seems convinced only black kids like
>>>>>>>> rap music. Of course, he's wrong. Lots of white kids like it
>>>>>>>> too.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Rap isn't music, it's a form of torture.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Any civilized country would ban it.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Well, I never said *I* liked it - in fact, I don't. But not
>>>>>> because it's a 'black' thing, which is clearly DFS's beef with it.
>>>
>>> Only negroes could come up with a vile "music" like rap.
>>
>> Bullshit. You really are a disgusting racist, DFS. Don't you ever try
>> thinking of being a decent human being? BTW, 'negroes' whent out with
>> segregationist crap. You're out of touch.
>
> Me? When was the last time you spoke with a negro?
>
> I have to deal with them every day.
And they, unfortunately, have to deal with you, don't they?
>
>
>
>
>
>>>>>> The
>>>>>> lyrics of a lot of heavy metal (which I *do* like, BTW) could
>>>>>> easily been considered equally as unplasant and offensive as rap
>>>>>> lyrics
>>>
>>> Post some of those lyrics.
>>
>> No thanks, I have better things to do. Feel free to go looking
>> yourself.
>
> Meaning you couldn't find any that were nearly like that (c)rap trash.
Believe me, pal, I could quote you some that would raise your hair. But
I'm not goig to waste my time doing it.
>
>
>
>>>>>> , but we don't see DFS calling metal crap, because metal is a
>>>>>> mostly white thing, sin't it?
>>>
>>> I don't listen to any heavy metal music anymore, but in my teens I
>>> loved Judas Priest and Black Sabbath, and some Motorhead.
>>> Apparently a lot of metal music nowadays is kind of satanic.
>>
>> That's black mental. Some of that's okay. Most of what I like is more
>> industrial-flavoured, or nu-metal. Used to be more keen on death metal
>> than I am these days.
>
> I loved the Priest, but sometime in college - when I was about 19 - I just
> quit listening to it. It's too frantic.
I gave up the old style stuff, and just listened to chart music for ages,
till a workmate turned me onto Metallica and other similar stuff around
1990. My tastes developed from there, getting heavier and heavier.
>
>
>
>
>>> I turn it off nearly as quickly as I turn off (c)rap music. I don't
>>> like country music either (mainly I dislike that slide guitar twang).
>>
>> I'm not over-keen on country, though if you look into its development
>> and roots, it's quite interesting.
>
> My wife loves it. I like country rock like Skynyrd and Charlie Daniels
> Band, and some of the ballads, but the slide guitar just grates.
> Unfortunately, it's in about 80% of country songs.
Not the real hardcore stuff. I thought that, until I saw a documentary
series about country. Didn't quite turn me into a fan, but I appreciate it
more now.
>
>
>
>>>>>> If rappers were white, I bet he wouldn't call it (c)rap.
>>>
>>> The "best" (c)rapper IS White. The song Lose Yourself is a good
>>> song.
>>
>> See? You can't help being a racist twat, can you? If it's done by a
>> white it's okay, even if it's rap, but if it's a black guy it's
>> automatically crap?
>>
>> Sheesh.
>
> No, dumbass. I like lots of Motown songs. Smokey Robinson wrote some great
> tunes. Otis Redding, Marvin Gaye, others from that time. I like Prince's
> music from the late 80's and early 90's (his newer stuff isn't very good
> compared).
>
> I just hate the typical (c)rap music: no melody, no meaning, just vile
> jungle grunting about fucking ho's and killin' niggaz..
Yep, it's not particularly pleasant. But you aren't fooling me. If it was
whitey singing, you wouldn't whine. You're a racist. The words 'jungle
grunting' give you away.
--
Kier
Kier
There's more than one kind of trash, fool.
You think all blacks are the same, don't you?
>
>
>
>
>>>> Exactly what was *that* meant to prove?
>>>
>>> That it's a gross caricature of music.
>>
>> So? You're a gross caricature of a human being.
>
> So? We're not all as perfect as you.
Me, perfect? I should wish. But at least I'm not a racist.
>
>
>
>>>> I think it's pretty stupid music,
>>>> though sometimes quite powerful when performed properly.
>>>
>>> What does that mean?
>>
>> What it says.
>
> What does it mean?
Figure it out for yourself, it was plain enough.
>
>
>
>
>>>> It would be the same if performed by black or white artists.
>>>
>>> No it wouldn't. (c)rap music is a black thang. White rappers are
>>> pretenders (even though Eminem seems to be pretty good at it).
>>
>> Try taking off your racist blinkers sometime.
>
> Why?
You might learn something.
>
>
>
>
>>>> BTW, for someone who claims not to listen to it, you seem to know an
>>>> awful lot about it.
>>>
>>> I know nothing about it, except as I might see it on the news or on
>>> MSNBC, or read about a crapper being shot.
>>
>> Then you're hardly qualified to pontificate about it.
>
> First you say I know a lot about it, then you say I'm not qualified to talk
> about it. Make up your mind, weasel.
You make up *yours*, dipshit.
--
Kier
DFS
> On Thu, 29 Jun 2006 15:29:35 -0400, DFS wrote:
>>>> Only negroes could come up with a vile "music" like rap.
>>>
>>> Bullshit. You really are a disgusting racist, DFS. Don't you ever
>>> try thinking of being a decent human being? BTW, 'negroes' whent
>>> out with segregationist crap. You're out of touch.
>>
>> Me? When was the last time you spoke with a negro?
>>
>> I have to deal with them every day.
>
> And they, unfortunately, have to deal with you, don't they?
They don't have to. They could stick to themselves, and their own
neighborhoods. But there's nothing but misery and squalor in blackie-town,
so they run to White areas for jobs and decent standards of living.
>> Meaning you couldn't find any that were nearly like that (c)rap
>> trash.
>
> Believe me, pal, I could quote you some that would raise your hair.
> But I'm not goig to waste my time doing it.
You might find some satanic metal stuff, but it's very unpopular. (c)rap
music, on the other hand, sells very well among blacks.
>> I loved the Priest, but sometime in college - when I was about 19 -
>> I just quit listening to it. It's too frantic.
>
> I gave up the old style stuff, and just listened to chart music for
> ages, till a workmate turned me onto Metallica and other similar
> stuff around 1990. My tastes developed from there, getting heavier
> and heavier.
Heavier than Metallica? That's pretty heavy metal already. I watched the
documentary (Some Kind of Monster). Pretty interesting. I was never into
them - but they became one of or the largest metal groups.
>> I just hate the typical (c)rap music: no melody, no meaning, just
>> vile jungle grunting about fucking ho's and killin' niggaz..
>
> Yep, it's not particularly pleasant.
Noooo?
> But you aren't fooling me.
Wasn't trying to.
> If it was whitey singing, you wouldn't whine.
White people don't sing like that, or use those words, so you have no point.
> You're a racist.
This is true.
> The words 'jungle grunting' give you away.
You must be a racist, too, if you know the code words.
DFS
> On Thu, 29 Jun 2006 15:34:12 -0400, DFS wrote:
>> Sure. When I'm not writing code, I'm bussin' caps in niggaz, and
>> dealin' smack to Tupac... ROFL@your stupidity.
>
> There's more than one kind of trash, fool.
>
> You think all blacks are the same, don't you?
Of course not. Some niggaz like Cristal, and some niggaz like Courvoisier.
They're a wildly diverse pack. LOL!
>>>>> Exactly what was *that* meant to prove?
>>>>
>>>> That it's a gross caricature of music.
>>>
>>> So? You're a gross caricature of a human being.
>>
>> So? We're not all as perfect as you.
>
> Me, perfect? I should wish. But at least I'm not a racist.
You sure? You avoid them as much as possible
>>>>> I think it's pretty stupid music,
>>>>> though sometimes quite powerful when performed properly.
>>>>
>>>> What does that mean?
>>>
>>> What it says.
>>
>> What does it mean?
>
> Figure it out for yourself, it was plain enough.
What does it mean?
>>>>> It would be the same if performed by black or white artists.
>>>>
>>>> No it wouldn't. (c)rap music is a black thang. White rappers are
>>>> pretenders (even though Eminem seems to be pretty good at it).
>>>
>>> Try taking off your racist blinkers sometime.
>>
>> Why?
>
> You might learn something.
You're the only ignorant one here, you sheltered, naive fool. You probably
think the Cosby Show was real.
>>>>> BTW, for someone who claims not to listen to it, you seem to know
>>>>> an awful lot about it.
>>>>
>>>> I know nothing about it, except as I might see it on the news or on
>>>> MSNBC, or read about a crapper being shot.
>>>
>>> Then you're hardly qualified to pontificate about it.
>>
>> First you say I know a lot about it, then you say I'm not qualified
>> to talk about it. Make up your mind, weasel.
>
> You make up *yours*, dipshit.
44 years old, and still playing IKYABWAI.
Gawd.
Kier
> Kier wrote:
>> On Thu, 29 Jun 2006 15:29:35 -0400, DFS wrote:
>
>>>>> Only negroes could come up with a vile "music" like rap.
>>>>
>>>> Bullshit. You really are a disgusting racist, DFS. Don't you ever
>>>> try thinking of being a decent human being? BTW, 'negroes' whent
>>>> out with segregationist crap. You're out of touch.
>>>
>>> Me? When was the last time you spoke with a negro?
>>>
>>> I have to deal with them every day.
>>
>> And they, unfortunately, have to deal with you, don't they?
>
> They don't have to. They could stick to themselves, and their own
> neighborhoods. But there's nothing but misery and squalor in blackie-town,
> so they run to White areas for jobs and decent standards of living.
Ever wondered where the misery comes from? Ever thought what it might be
like growing up hearing yourself called coon, monkey, wog, nigger? Think
you'd like it? Think you wouldn't grow to loathe the white society that
perpetuated such filth?
A white man can leave a poor area, change his accent/vocabulary, put on a
suit, be accepted. A black man can't change colour. NOr can he help being
born black.
>
>
>
>>> Meaning you couldn't find any that were nearly like that (c)rap
>>> trash.
>>
>> Believe me, pal, I could quote you some that would raise your hair.
>> But I'm not goig to waste my time doing it.
>
> You might find some satanic metal stuff, but it's very unpopular. (c)rap
> music, on the other hand, sells very well among blacks.
Among whites, too.
>
>
>
>>> I loved the Priest, but sometime in college - when I was about 19 -
>>> I just quit listening to it. It's too frantic.
>>
>> I gave up the old style stuff, and just listened to chart music for
>> ages, till a workmate turned me onto Metallica and other similar
>> stuff around 1990. My tastes developed from there, getting heavier
>> and heavier.
>
> Heavier than Metallica? That's pretty heavy metal already. I watched the
> documentary (Some Kind of Monster). Pretty interesting. I was never into
> them - but they became one of or the largest metal groups.
It gets waaay heavier even than them. Though they're great.
>
>
>
>
>
>>> I just hate the typical (c)rap music: no melody, no meaning, just
>>> vile jungle grunting about fucking ho's and killin' niggaz..
>>
>> Yep, it's not particularly pleasant.
>
> Noooo?
>
>
>> But you aren't fooling me.
>
> Wasn't trying to.
>
>
>
>> If it was whitey singing, you wouldn't whine.
>
> White people don't sing like that, or use those words, so you have no point.
>
>
>
>> You're a racist.
>
> This is true.
And you're not a bit ashamed, are you? Pitiful.
>
>
>
>> The words 'jungle grunting' give you away.
>
> You must be a racist, too, if you know the code words.
No, I just recognise an arsehole when I see one.
--
Kier
Beowulf Trollshammer
> A few. There are some rap-metal tracks which aren't so bad, but it's not
> a form of music which appeals to me. I'm into stuff like Tool, Carcass,
> Paradise Lost and Static-X.
Ah, European Metal totally kicks ass! Timeless, powerful, totally breathaking
music. "Heartwork" by Carcass is among my all time favorites along with
Paradise's "Icon" and "Draconian Times". And don't forget Therion, Emperor,
The Gathering, Nightwish, Blind Guardian, Edguy, Children of Bodom, Rhapsody,
Sonata Arctica and I'll better stop here. :)
Kier
> Kier wrote:
>> On Thu, 29 Jun 2006 15:34:12 -0400, DFS wrote:
>
>
>>> Sure. When I'm not writing code, I'm bussin' caps in niggaz, and
>>> dealin' smack to Tupac... ROFL@your stupidity.
>>
>> There's more than one kind of trash, fool.
>>
>> You think all blacks are the same, don't you?
>
> Of course not. Some niggaz like Cristal, and some niggaz like Courvoisier.
>
> They're a wildly diverse pack. LOL!
Yeah, real funny. Not. You don't even see how sick you are.
>
>
>
>
>>>>>> Exactly what was *that* meant to prove?
>>>>>
>>>>> That it's a gross caricature of music.
>>>>
>>>> So? You're a gross caricature of a human being.
>>>
>>> So? We're not all as perfect as you.
>>
>> Me, perfect? I should wish. But at least I'm not a racist.
>
> You sure? You avoid them as much as possible
Nope.
>
>
>
>
>>>>>> I think it's pretty stupid music,
>>>>>> though sometimes quite powerful when performed properly.
>>>>>
>>>>> What does that mean?
>>>>
>>>> What it says.
>>>
>>> What does it mean?
>>
>> Figure it out for yourself, it was plain enough.
>
> What does it mean?
>
>
>
>
>
>>>>>> It would be the same if performed by black or white artists.
>>>>>
>>>>> No it wouldn't. (c)rap music is a black thang. White rappers are
>>>>> pretenders (even though Eminem seems to be pretty good at it).
>>>>
>>>> Try taking off your racist blinkers sometime.
>>>
>>> Why?
>>
>> You might learn something.
>
> You're the only ignorant one here, you sheltered, naive fool. You probably
> think the Cosby Show was real.
Nope.
<snip>
Come back when you actually know something about me.
--
Kier
Kier
> Kier wrote:
>
>> A few. There are some rap-metal tracks which aren't so bad, but it's not
>> a form of music which appeals to me. I'm into stuff like Tool, Carcass,
>> Paradise Lost and Static-X.
>
> Ah, European Metal totally kicks ass! Timeless, powerful, totally breathaking
> music. "Heartwork" by Carcass is among my all time favorites along with
> Paradise's "Icon" and "Draconian Times".
Three faves of mine, too! I really wish Carcass was still around, that was
a cracking band.
And don't forget Therion, Emperor,
> The Gathering, Nightwish, Blind Guardian, Edguy, Children of Bodom, Rhapsody,
> Sonata Arctica and I'll better stop here. :)
There's some really great stuff out there. Must buy some more of it.
--
Kier
DFS
> Kier wrote:
>
>> A few. There are some rap-metal tracks which aren't so bad, but it's
>> not a form of music which appeals to me. I'm into stuff like Tool,
>> Carcass, Paradise Lost and Static-X.
>
> Ah, European Metal totally kicks ass! Timeless, powerful, totally
> breathaking music.
Are The Scorpions and Michael Schenker considered European metal? They were
some of my favorites. Lovedrive and Animal Magnetism are great rock
classics - I still have my vinyl copies around somewhere.
"Heartwork" by Carcass is among my all time
> favorites along with Paradise's "Icon" and "Draconian Times". And
> don't forget Therion, Emperor, The Gathering, Nightwish, Blind
> Guardian, Edguy, Children of Bodom, Rhapsody, Sonata Arctica and I'll
> better stop here. :)
I've never heard of any of those groups. Not one.
I'm getting old.
arachnid
Personally I prefer early European heavy metal. As in, Bach on a big
heavy metal pipe-organ. :o]
Da'Punk-A
DFS wrote:
> Kier wrote:
> > On Thu, 29 Jun 2006 13:36:14 -0400, DFS wrote:
> >
> >> arachnid wrote:
> >>> On Thu, 29 Jun 2006 17:07:20 +0100, Kier wrote:
> >>>
> >>>> He's a racist prick, and seems convinced only black kids like rap
> >>>> music. Of course, he's wrong. Lots of white kids like it too.
> >>
> >> Usually they grow out of it at about age 16.
> >
> > So *you* say.
>
> So I do. Let me know the next time you see a 30-year old White person
> listening to rap.
Okay, DFS, I'll divulge a little - I'm white, I'm over 30, and I have
just put on my mp3 of "The Eminem Show". No doubt I'm the exception
that proves the rule?
> >>> Rap isn't music, it's a form of torture.
> >>>
> >>> Any civilized country would ban it.
Despite DFS's assumptions, I'm not a rap "fan". The violent,
misogynist attitude can be tiring. But I do like early Ice-T stuff
(what he did before it became a cliche), and I like Eminem, as his
lyrics can be quite funny and clever, he does some neat stuff with
rhythm, and generally he doesn't adopt the violent attitude so
prevalent in rap. He rarely writes about guns and killing people. And
his misogyny is generally limited to humorous attacks on his ex-wife
and his mother. Sure, you hear one or two and you think it's the
usual. But if you know the context, and if you have knowledge of his
past work, you get the joke.
I'm not trying to intellectualize rap, and I'm not comparing Eminem's
"poetry" with the work of "real" poets. This is pop music. But it's
/clever/ pop music. And most rap /is/ crap, in my opinion. But good
rap is good.
.
<snip>
> > I think it's pretty stupid music,
> > though sometimes quite powerful when performed properly.
>
> What does that mean?
I think he means something like what I wrote above.
> > It would be the same if performed by black or white artists.
>
> No it wouldn't. (c)rap music is a black thang. White rappers are
> pretenders (even though Eminem seems to be pretty good at it).
Rap music originated in black neighbourhoods, and is usually performed
by black artists. And many white rappers /are/ crap. But rap is not
"black" music. The fact that Eminem does it well kind of proves my
point. Also, bands like Rage Against The Machine, with their rap-metal
fusion style, have helped broaden its appeal.
chrisv
>Come back when you actually know something about me.
He knows you're a troll-feeder...
Da'Punk-A
Kier wrote:
> On Thu, 29 Jun 2006 16:07:21 -0400, DFS wrote:
>
> > Kier wrote:
> >> On Thu, 29 Jun 2006 15:34:12 -0400, DFS wrote:
> >
> >>> Sure. When I'm not writing code, I'm bussin' caps in niggaz, and
> >>> dealin' smack to Tupac... ROFL@your stupidity.
> >>
> >> There's more than one kind of trash, fool.
> >>
> >> You think all blacks are the same, don't you?
> >
> > Of course not. Some niggaz like Cristal, and some niggaz like Courvoisier.
> >
> > They're a wildly diverse pack. LOL!
>
> Yeah, real funny. Not. You don't even see how sick you are.
> >>>>>> Exactly what was *that* meant to prove?
> >>>>>
> >>>>> That it's a gross caricature of music.
> >>>>
> >>>> So? You're a gross caricature of a human being.
> >>>
> >>> So? We're not all as perfect as you.
> >>
> >> Me, perfect? I should wish. But at least I'm not a racist.
> >
> > You sure? You avoid them as much as possible
>
> Nope.
<snip>
> >>>>>> It would be the same if performed by black or white artists.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> No it wouldn't. (c)rap music is a black thang. White rappers are
> >>>>> pretenders (even though Eminem seems to be pretty good at it).
> >>>>
> >>>> Try taking off your racist blinkers sometime.
> >>>
> >>> Why?
> >>
> >> You might learn something.
> >
> > You're the only ignorant one here, you sheltered, naive fool. You probably
> > think the Cosby Show was real.
>
> Nope.
>
> <snip>
>
> Come back when you actually know something about me.
DFS is a great one for making offensive assumptions on the slimmest
evidence. A short while back, I failed to criticize someone for making
naive, idealistic comments about Africans. So Dumb Fucking Shit (as I
like to call him) decided that I must be black. And told me (I'm
paraphrasing) to fuck off to Africa if I thought it was so great there.
He has, apparently, eventually accepted that I am, in fact, white. So
now he thinks I'm a liberal "nigger-lover". He has also assumed that
I'm a teenager. Maybe he hasn't read the posts I've written about my
computing experiences in the 1980s, which would give anyone a clue as
to how old I am. Or maybe he's trying to wind me up. I don't know, or
care. The point I'm making is, DFS makes assumptions all the time,
using the SWAG* principle, while criticizing other people for doing the
same time. In short, he is a hypocrite. He is also a racist. And
he's a history revisionist and a Nazi sympathizer.
He tries to be offensive, but can only manage ridiculous. Still,
putting him in his place can be amusing.
*SWAG = Scientific Wild-Assed Guess.
Kier
> Rap music originated in black neighbourhoods, and is usually performed
> by black artists. And many white rappers /are/ crap. But rap is not
> "black" music. The fact that Eminem does it well kind of proves my
> point. Also, bands like Rage Against The Machine, with their rap-metal
> fusion style, have helped broaden its appeal.
I'd forgotten about RATM. Their first album (must admit, subsequent ones
were not really to my taste) was an absolute bombshell, one of the best I
ever heard.
--
Kier
Robert Newson
...
> Banning MS (and Windows) in Europe would do far more than annoy people.
It'd cause quite a few to celebrate...
> It
> would cause significant economic hardship for many millions.
All those tied up in delas with MS; and the anti-malware brigade, etc...
> It would
> devastate the education system.
Yep; all the kids would have no excuse for wrong spellings. If there is a
French version, German version, etc, why is there no English version with
FAVOURITES, etc spelt properly?
> Infuriate the millions who play Windows
> games.
They'd get over it - besides, games woul dthen be written for other OSs or
games machines which would be available; linux ports, etc would occur at a
much faster rate, possibly some games even starting off on Linux to be later
ported to Windwos.
> Shut down nearly all hardware OEMs.
They'd very quickly start shipping OS less machines, or ones with Linux
pre-installed; and the best bit would be the cost would be more
representative of the real cost without the inflastion of Windwos...unlikely
for a while as they'd have to recoup all their loss in the cost of the
Windwos licences which would now be worthless.
> Close down nearly every
> computer store.
Only the ones which couldn't work out that there is more to life than
Windwos and adapt to the new market - in which case they deserve to go
under. I managed quite well to purchase this computer from a computer store
without Windwos (albeit because it was built from parts to my spec - those
computer stores will flourish).
> In short, a catastrophe.
For Microsoft; for the citizens of the EU - release from the bondage of Windwos.
...
> It would take years and many billions of additional funds to [attempt to]
> replace Windows with Linux in the EU, and in th end it would be a gross
> failure as millions of users come to realize there is no good alternative
> for many Windows programs, soon after which Windows piracy rates would jump
> significantly.
Within those years, the software houses would have written for Linux.
The only problem is that the EU would still be daily attacked by the Windwos
zombies spewing out spam, viruses, etc, however, businesses would soon find
that the costs of virus, etc protection would be near zero and so billions
of funds wouldn't be needed for that and so could be diverted towards
conversion to Linux, or the share holders divvies.
> Windows does work - that's why the world uses it.
That depends how you define "work". The reason the world[1] uses it is
because it comes bundled with the machine and is almost impossible to
reject, and all the wonderful donations to schools of MS powered equipment
which means that people are indoctrinated with computer==MS Windwos by the
time thay leave school. If people /really/ had a choice of OS would they
pick Windwos?
[1]World as in all countries of the globe and not just North America, you mean?
> That's why all successful
> corporations choose it for their desktops (and for a lot of server work).
Do they choose it or is it foistered on them?
> On the other hand, Linux can hardly be given away.
Actually it *is* given away - you can obtain Linux totally free *AND*
legally, and then legally install it on as many machines as you like.
Windwos *has* to be given away to ensure that people are hooked.
...
> How can it "rip anyone off" when it's a freely made choice to buy and use
> Windows?
That's why when you reject the EULA of Windwos when you buy a computer
(especially laptops) the companies are more than happy to allow you to
return *JUST* the Windwos part of the computer (ie the software and not the
whole computer *AND* software) and refund you the cost of it?
--
Never argue with a fool - people might not be able to tell the different.
JEDIDIAH
> On Thu, 29 Jun 2006 15:53:33 -0400, DFS wrote:
>
>> Kier wrote:
>>> On Thu, 29 Jun 2006 15:29:35 -0400, DFS wrote:
>>
>>>>>> Only negroes could come up with a vile "music" like rap.
>>>>>
>>>>> Bullshit. You really are a disgusting racist, DFS. Don't you ever
>>>>> try thinking of being a decent human being? BTW, 'negroes' whent
>>>>> out with segregationist crap. You're out of touch.
>>>>
>>>> Me? When was the last time you spoke with a negro?
>>>>
>>>> I have to deal with them every day.
>>>
>>> And they, unfortunately, have to deal with you, don't they?
>>
>> They don't have to. They could stick to themselves, and their own
>> neighborhoods. But there's nothing but misery and squalor in blackie-town,
>> so they run to White areas for jobs and decent standards of living.
>
> Ever wondered where the misery comes from? Ever thought what it might be
> like growing up hearing yourself called coon, monkey, wog, nigger? Think
> you'd like it? Think you wouldn't grow to loathe the white society that
> perpetuated such filth?
>
> A white man can leave a poor area, change his accent/vocabulary, put on a
> suit, be accepted. A black man can't change colour. NOr can he help being
> born black.
Yes he can. It's pretty easy in this day and age actually. It wasn't
too hard 40 years ago either. It wasn't entirely impossible 200 years ago.
Some have it harder than others but that's true all over. The real question
is what you do about it and what the pervasive cultural values within your
own ethnic group tell you to do about it.
[deletia]
A bonfire can be a forge or a funeral pyre depending all on how
you approach the situation personally. This is far more important than
what others subject you to.
Infact, the pervasive negative self image can actually nullify
any external attempts at "remediation".
--
NO! There are no CODICILES of Fight Club! |||
/ | \
That way leads to lawyers and business megacorps and credit cards!
Kier
Hiow can a black person stop being black? I mean, apart from the obvious
Michael Jackson route? I'm not saying a black person can't alter his
values, his behaviour, that would be stupid. But society is still
very often going to perceive him in a certain way because of his skin
colour. And that's something he can't help.
--
Kier
Mark Kent
JEDIDIAH <je...@nomad.mishnet> espoused:
We've had an interesting example in the UK for many many years. One of
our key newsreaders is a guy called Trevor McDonald. In spite of the
British name, he's a black guy from the Windies. When he was a kid, he
used to listen to the BBC, and decided he wanted to be a newsreader, so
he learnt the BBC accent, came to the UK, and did exactly that. He's been
a newsreader for donkey's years now, and is very well respected indeed.
There's been a view that accents are a kind of racist tool but they can
all be learnt if you want to enough.
There was another black guy who made a respectable living from having a
broad yorkshire accent, one advertisement he was in played on racism, it
went something like:
White guy:
"Bet you'd like to have these <product X> where you're from?"
Black guy (in strong yorkshire accent):
"Aye, but ah were born 'ere, lad."
--
| Mark Kent -- mark at ellandroad dot demon dot co dot uk |
More people are flattered into virtue than bullied out of vice.
-- R.S. Surtees