Linux Advocate Requires Assistance
jokersmild
have to suffer with the vagaries of Windows.
I am trying to make sure that they don't go off and get their fingers
caught in Windows. I have decided that I am not going to wait around
for some large computer maufacturer to ship a box with linux
pre-installed.
I decided to emulate the large computer manufacturers and use their
approach to building computers.
I decided on a standard hardware configuration that will be common to
all computers that I will ship.
I decided to use Ubuntu, because it was the easiest to install and had
a lot of very cool features. It is also the easiest to use.
I decided that the cheapest method to make sure that every kid on my
block gets a functioning linux box, was to put a display model on the
street next to my appartment building. I dropped a power cable and a
network cable out of my kitchen window and plug the box in.
The people on my street come by and use the computer. After a little
while of playing around, they decide that they want one. Then we go
down to the computer store and buy the parts that they need. We take
them back to the street and they put their own computer together from
scratch and help them when they ask for it. People stop to whatch them
put there box together and then install Ubuntu. Then we make sure that
everything works. And then they take their box home.
I have a problem that I cannot seem to solve by myself. Ubuntu takes a
long time to install as comparred to the time that it takes to assemble
the machine. This lag in completion tarnishes the appeal and
instantaneousness of computers built on the street in the hood.
If I were using Windows as an OS I used the same configuration on each
box, I would use a program like Norton Ghost and image the OS onto each
box.
I'd like to us Ghost 4 Linux and image drives from a master so that I
am able to shorten the amount of time for each transaction. The
difficulty for me arrives when try to boot the g4l CD. The cases that
I have chosen only have a power source that accomodates two IDE drives.
I could modify one of the spare power connectors to accomodate the CD
drive with the g4l boot CD in it.
Or I could make use of the standard motha board feature and boot g4l
from a USB stick.
I wanted to go for the USB method because it would save me playing with
wires. I've read everything I could find on getting USB sticks to boot
stuff. I have read everything that I could to get this to happen, but
I still have not found an consensus on the solution.
All the other tutorials were for moving a live cd installation over and
I was not able to comprehend all of it. I tried everything that I had
read about, but was unable to successfully boot g4l from my usb stick.
I have helped five people build their own Linux computers, and they are
all very happy with the results.
At first people thought that it was strange that I would drop power and
Internet to the street and then set up a computer and then start
offering people to help them build their own.
I explained to them upfront the process, and then have them sit and use
it. They ask a lot of questions and eventually they ask how much I
charge to do this?
They are shocked to learn that I charge nothing to help them get the
exact same computer that I have.
My hardware dealer is very please that I bring him customers that he
wouldn't normally have. He is also pleased that he is not likely to
see them again accept to by hardware. He is a big fan of straight cash
sales and not having to deal with support issues.
So far I have helped 5 people leave the misiery of Windows. I would be
able to help so many more if I were able to deliver the software
faster.
If you have a definitive solution to this, pleas let me know. All I
need is g4l to boot from a usb.
Oliver Wong
news:1154725684....@h48g2000cwc.googlegroups.com...
>
> I decided that the cheapest method to make sure that every kid on my
> block gets a functioning linux box, was to put a display model on the
> street next to my appartment building. I dropped a power cable and a
> network cable out of my kitchen window and plug the box in.
Sorry, I don't have a solution to your problem, but I'm curious about
this: What do you do about rain/snow?
- Oliver
Rex Ballard
> I am dedicated to making sure that the kids in my neighborhood never
> have to suffer with the vagaries of Windows.
A noble cause indeed.
> I am trying to make sure that they don't go off and get their fingers
> caught in Windows. I have decided that I am not going to wait around
> for some large computer maufacturer to ship a box with linux
> pre-installed.
Good for you. There are many computers nowdays that are "Linux Ready"
even though they are shipped with Windows. Mostly these are "off
brands", such as the NASCAR laptop or desktop.
> I decided to emulate the large computer manufacturers and use their
> approach to building computers.
> I decided on a standard hardware configuration that will be common to
> all computers that I will ship.
> I decided to use Ubuntu, because it was the easiest to install and had
> a lot of very cool features. It is also the easiest to use.
This is a good approach.
> I decided that the cheapest method to make sure that every kid on my
> block gets a functioning linux box, was to put a display model on the
> street next to my appartment building. I dropped a power cable and a
> network cable out of my kitchen window and plug the box in.
I would suggest offering to put the machine on display at the local
computer store, or any other store-front that would be willing to rent
you some "widow space".
> The people on my street come by and use the computer. After a little
> while of playing around, they decide that they want one.
Looks like a good plan so far.
> Then we go
> down to the computer store and buy the parts that they need.
You probably don't need to "build from scratch". There are a number of
AMD-64 machines that are "Linux Ready". Some of them are very
reasonably priced.
> We take them back to the street and they put their own computer together from
> scratch and help them when they ask for it. People stop to whatch them
> put there box together and then install Ubuntu. Then we make sure that
> everything works. And then they take their box home.
I guess if they see the box being built that will look good.
> I have a problem that I cannot seem to solve by myself. Ubuntu takes a
> long time to install as comparred to the time that it takes to assemble
> the machine. This lag in completion tarnishes the appeal and
> instantaneousness of computers built on the street in the hood.
Use a live-cd to boot into Linux, then mount a USB external hard drive
to which you have saved the partition using "dd". Use the live-CD to
create the standard Linux partition, then dd if=/mnt/usbdrive/partimage
of=/dev/hda0
to create this, use a preconfigured machine and use
dd if=/dev/hda0 of=/mnt/usbdrive/partimage
This is about how the OEMs do it.
In fact, you can even use USB drives to store the completed image.
Some folks use removable hard drive carriers in regular desktop
machines.
You could even put the partitions (compressed?) on a DVD along with a
boot image and the copy program. You could even tar different
"personalities" to the machine if you decide to support multiple
machines.
> If I were using Windows as an OS I used the same configuration on each
> box, I would use a program like Norton Ghost and image the OS onto each
> box.
We call it dd. It's a simple image copy program. With it, you can
copy a partition to a file (cormpressed or not) and then from a file
back to a partition.
> I'd like to us Ghost 4 Linux and image drives from a master so that I
> am able to shorten the amount of time for each transaction. The
> difficulty for me arrives when try to boot the g4l CD. The cases that
> I have chosen only have a power source that accomodates two IDE drives.
Again, you are making it a bit too complicated. The install can be
done with simple shell commands, but you are trying to kill flies with
a bazooka.
> I have helped five people build their own Linux computers, and they are
> all very happy with the results.
Make it like an MLM. Have each of them help someone else install
Linux.
> They are shocked to learn that I charge nothing to help them get the
> exact same computer that I have.
Watch the movie "Pay it Forward". Have your "customers" do the same.
You help them to install Linux, and then they agree to show Linux to
others and help them install Linux.
If you can do this with 5 people a month, and each of them averages 3
people a month, it would take your network about 1 year to install and
configure just under 18 million machines - in theory. So maybe you only
do 1 million, but some of those kids would move to other cities and
"pay it forward" there.
By the way, this isn't too far off of how Linux got spread so rapidly
in the first place.
In 15 years, this "pay it forward" approach has resulted in around 200
million Linux deployments world-wide. Not all of these machines are
used as Linux machines full time, but many of them are dual-boot, VM,
or secondary machines.
The irony is that nearly all of these machines, were originally sold
with Windows preinstalled.
> My hardware dealer is very pleased that I bring him customers that he
> wouldn't normally have. He is also pleased that he is not likely to
> see them again accept to by hardware. He is a big fan of straight cash
> sales and not having to deal with support issues.
He might be willing to let yuo display your machine in his store, along
with a sign telling them how you can set them up. This way those you
have helped can bring their friends to the store as well, show them
Linux, and help them make one too.
> So far I have helped 5 people leave the misiery of Windows. I would be
> able to help so many more if I were able to deliver the software
> faster.
> If you have a definitive solution to this, pleas let me know. All I
> need is g4l to boot from a usb.
Some machines will boot from USB. Some will boot from "usb floppies".
Your simplest bet however, is to boot from CD (which nearly all
machines do) and just use "mount" and "dd" to copy the partition to the
hard drive. You could also copy an image file to the created PC and dd
from an SMB mounted file.
You might find that knoppix works better for this copy, since it
doesn't need any drive storage to run the shell commands.
Rex Ballard
> I am dedicated to making sure that the kids in my neighborhood never
> have to suffer with the vagaries of Windows.
A noble cause indeed.
> I am trying to make sure that they don't go off and get their fingers
> caught in Windows. I have decided that I am not going to wait around
> for some large computer maufacturer to ship a box with linux
> pre-installed.
Good for you. There are many computers nowdays that are "Linux Ready"
even though they are shipped with Windows. Mostly these are "off
brands", such as the NASCAR laptop or desktop.
> I decided to emulate the large computer manufacturers and use their
> approach to building computers.
> I decided on a standard hardware configuration that will be common to
> all computers that I will ship.
> I decided to use Ubuntu, because it was the easiest to install and had
> a lot of very cool features. It is also the easiest to use.
This is a good approach.
> I decided that the cheapest method to make sure that every kid on my
> block gets a functioning linux box, was to put a display model on the
> street next to my appartment building. I dropped a power cable and a
> network cable out of my kitchen window and plug the box in.
I would suggest offering to put the machine on display at the local
computer store, or any other store-front that would be willing to rent
you some "widow space".
> The people on my street come by and use the computer. After a little
> while of playing around, they decide that they want one.
Looks like a good plan so far.
> Then we go
> down to the computer store and buy the parts that they need.
You probably don't need to "build from scratch". There are a number of
AMD-64 machines that are "Linux Ready". Some of them are very
reasonably priced.
> We take them back to the street and they put their own computer together from
> scratch and help them when they ask for it. People stop to whatch them
> put there box together and then install Ubuntu. Then we make sure that
> everything works. And then they take their box home.
I guess if they see the box being built that will look good.
> I have a problem that I cannot seem to solve by myself. Ubuntu takes a
> long time to install as comparred to the time that it takes to assemble
> the machine. This lag in completion tarnishes the appeal and
> instantaneousness of computers built on the street in the hood.
Use a live-cd to boot into Linux, then mount a USB external hard drive
to which you have saved the partition using "dd". Use the live-CD to
create the standard Linux partition, then dd if=/mnt/usbdrive/partimage
of=/dev/hda0
to create this, use a preconfigured machine and use
dd if=/dev/hda0 of=/mnt/usbdrive/partimage
This is about how the OEMs do it.
In fact, you can even use USB drives to store the completed image.
Some folks use removable hard drive carriers in regular desktop
machines.
You could even put the partitions (compressed?) on a DVD along with a
boot image and the copy program. You could even tar different
"personalities" to the machine if you decide to support multiple
machines.
> If I were using Windows as an OS I used the same configuration on each
> box, I would use a program like Norton Ghost and image the OS onto each
> box.
We call it dd. It's a simple image copy program. With it, you can
copy a partition to a file (cormpressed or not) and then from a file
back to a partition.
> I'd like to us Ghost 4 Linux and image drives from a master so that I
> am able to shorten the amount of time for each transaction. The
> difficulty for me arrives when try to boot the g4l CD. The cases that
> I have chosen only have a power source that accomodates two IDE drives.
Again, you are making it a bit too complicated. The install can be
done with simple shell commands, but you are trying to kill flies with
a bazooka.
> I have helped five people build their own Linux computers, and they are
> all very happy with the results.
Make it like an MLM. Have each of them help someone else install
Linux.
> They are shocked to learn that I charge nothing to help them get the
> exact same computer that I have.
Watch the movie "Pay it Forward". Have your "customers" do the same.
You help them to install Linux, and then they agree to show Linux to
others and help them install Linux.
If you can do this with 5 people a month, and each of them averages 3
people a month, it would take your network about 1 year to install and
configure just under 18 million machines - in theory. So maybe you only
do 1 million, but some of those kids would move to other cities and
"pay it forward" there.
By the way, this isn't too far off of how Linux got spread so rapidly
in the first place.
In 15 years, this "pay it forward" approach has resulted in around 200
million Linux deployments world-wide. Not all of these machines are
used as Linux machines full time, but many of them are dual-boot, VM,
or secondary machines.
The irony is that nearly all of these machines, were originally sold
with Windows preinstalled.
> My hardware dealer is very pleased that I bring him customers that he
> wouldn't normally have. He is also pleased that he is not likely to
> see them again accept to by hardware. He is a big fan of straight cash
> sales and not having to deal with support issues.
He might be willing to let yuo display your machine in his store, along
with a sign telling them how you can set them up. This way those you
have helped can bring their friends to the store as well, show them
Linux, and help them make one too.
> So far I have helped 5 people leave the misiery of Windows. I would be
> able to help so many more if I were able to deliver the software
> faster.
> If you have a definitive solution to this, pleas let me know. All I
> need is g4l to boot from a usb.
Some machines will boot from USB. Some will boot from "usb floppies".
jokersmild
It did threaten to drizzle a bit the other day while I was set up. All
I had to do was to provide a box of big trash bags and masking tape and
tell the kids that if it starts to rain that they should cover stuff
up.
Tim Smith
jokersmild wrote:
> I live in Los Angeles... There is no rain or snow.
You mean there is no rain in summer, right? Overall, Los Angeles has a fair
amount of rain. It's about 40% of Seattle's annual rainfall, for instance,
and furthermore, it manages that with only 36 precipitation days a year,
compared to 158 for Seattle. So, 40% of the rain in 23% of the days, which
means rain in Los Angeles is actually worse than rain in Seattle.
It's telling that in 11 years of living in the Los Angeles area, I had need
of my umbrella far more than in the 14 years I've lived in the Seattle area.
Seattle has a reputation as a rainy place, but most of the midwest and
eastern large cities have around the same or more rain than Seattle. I
think the reason Seattle has such a rainy reputation is:
(1) it rains over a lot of days, so except for the middle of summer, there
is usually at least a little bit of rain, and
(2) rain is usually about the worst that happens. If you are in, say,
Buffalo, with your 93" of annual snow, who the heck is going to notice that
you've also got 40" of rain? So, you don't think of Buffalo as the rainy
city, but Seattle, with less rain than Buffalo, is the rainy city.
--
--Tim Smith
spi...@freenet.co.uk
> If I were using Windows as an OS I used the same configuration on each
> box, I would use a program like Norton Ghost and image the OS onto each
> box.
> I'd like to us Ghost 4 Linux and image drives from a master so that I
> am able to shorten the amount of time for each transaction.
Why reinvent the wheel?
If all the machines ARE identical, then you can simply use dd to copy your
standard hard disk image to the new disks, then plug in and you're away.
dd if=/dev/hda of=/dev/hdc bs=1024
should do the trick quite nicely
It might get more complicated if you switch to a new hard disk size, in
which case you might find it more reliable to install again and then use
that as the new "template" or partition the disk and use cp -a to copy all
files partition by partition.
> The
> difficulty for me arrives when try to boot the g4l CD. The cases that
> I have chosen only have a power source that accomodates two IDE drives.
If you use dd, you don't need a "ghost for linux" bootable cd.
You can use the standard distribution you're already running on the disk.
*note* best to do it in single user mode, to avoid copying incomplete
files-in-use.
You can get power splitters y'know.
--
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
| spi...@freenet.co.uk | Windows95 (noun): 32 bit extensions and a |
| | graphical shell for a 16 bit patch to an 8 bit |
|Andrew Halliwell BSc(hons)| operating system originally coded for a 4 bit |
| in |microprocessor, written by a 2 bit company, that|
| Computer Science | can't stand 1 bit of competition. |
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
spi...@freenet.co.uk
> to create this, use a preconfigured machine and use
> dd if=/dev/hda0 of=/mnt/usbdrive/partimage
hda*0*?
shirley shome mishtake?
hda/hda1/hda2/hda3/hda4/etc, yes... but... hda0?
--
______________________________________________________________________________
| spi...@freenet.co.uk | "Are you pondering what I'm pondering Pinky?" |
|Andrew Halliwell BSc(hons)| |
| in | "I think so brain, but this time, you control |
| Computer Science | the Encounter suit, and I'll do the voice..." |
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
JPB
<snip>
> jokersmild wrote:
<snip>
>> If I were using Windows as an OS I used the same configuration on each
>> box, I would use a program like Norton Ghost and image the OS onto each
>> box.
>
> We call it dd. It's a simple image copy program. With it, you can
> copy a partition to a file (cormpressed or not) and then from a file
> back to a partition.
>
<snip>
Don't forget to mention 'partimage'
http://www.partimage.org/Main_Page
The OP is using Ubuntu, so it should be an easy apt-get install from
repositories, setup as desired (e.g. Kubuntu, Ubuntu, Xubuntu flavours),
make the images, and should cope OK with different hard drive sizes and so
forth.
Have only played with it briefly, so I don't know what pitfalls there might
be, but on the face of it sounds like what the OP requires?
--
JPB
Linonut
> I live in Los Angeles... There is no rain or snow.
It sure as hell rains like hell in LA, dude. I lived there for awhile,
I know. But even if you don't live there, you surely hear about
mudslides on the news shows.
>> Sorry, I don't have a solution to your problem, but I'm curious about
>> this: What do you do about rain/snow?
Methinks he's playing with us.
--
Microsoft Word. The word processor that thinks it's smarter than you.
cory vandersloot
> I am dedicated to making sure that the kids in my neighborhood never
> have to suffer with the vagaries of Windows.
>
> I am trying to make sure that they don't go off and get their fingers
> caught in Windows. I have decided that I am not going to wait around
> for some large computer maufacturer to ship a box with linux
> pre-installed.
Buy a Dell for $299.99 INCLUDING operating system and forget trying to
hoodwink your neighbors into some crock of a Linux computer.
http://configure.us.dell.com/dellstore/config.aspx?c=us&cs=19&l=en&oc=DB110A&s=dhs
> So far I have helped 5 people leave the misiery of Windows. I would be
> able to help so many more if I were able to deliver the software
> faster.
Wait until they discover the reality of life and come back and make YOUR
life miserable for duping them with an operating system that hasn't
managed to break the .4 percent market share barrier.
Linux.
http://marketshare.hitslink.com/report.aspx?qprid=2
Friends don't let friends use Linux.
The statistics speak for themselves.
Mathew P.
Hash: SHA1
On 2006-08-05, cory vandersloot spake thusly:
Trolls talking to their socks. Sad but true.
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--
"Always do the right thing: It will delight / Aluminum Foil Deflector Beanies
some and astound the rest" - Mark Twain / Psychotronic protection, low prices
Ray Ingles
> I'd like to us Ghost 4 Linux and image drives from a master so that I
> am able to shorten the amount of time for each transaction. The
> difficulty for me arrives when try to boot the g4l CD. The cases that
> I have chosen only have a power source that accomodates two IDE drives.
>
> I could modify one of the spare power connectors to accomodate the CD
> drive with the g4l boot CD in it.
I guess I'm not understanding the problem here. How many disk drives do
you have in this system? What exactly would you be loading the image
from?
I mean to say, I would assume that one of the IDE drives would be the
hard disk (e.g. /dev/hda) and then the other IDE would be a CD or DVD
drive (e.g. /dev/hdc). So, you boot from the CD, load the image onto
the disk, and you're done. If it's a DVD reader I'd assume you could
bake the image onto a bootable DVD and do it all in one go.
What hardware are you putting in there, exactly?
--
Sincerely,
Ray Ingles (313) 227-2317
"I can't think of a worse way to wake up than discovering
my head is in a jar." - Tagon
"Try waking up with your head in a jar and having deja-vu."
- Der Trihs.
- Schlock Mercenary, http://www.schlockmercenary.com/