Mother-in-law wants Linux for X-mas
Kim
shopping for the kids Christmas presents. After a bit she finally asked
"What kind of 'windows' are you using?" I think jumping from one virtual
desk top to another and having probably a dozen or so browsers open at once
somehow seemed 'unnatural' to her. Well, anyway, I explained it was Linux,
not windows.
For a while the shopping was put aside while I answered all the expected
"So can Linux do... Can it run my..." questions. She finally stumped me
with "What about my genealogy software? Can it run that?" About 5 minutes
later I had found and downloaded three programs to keep track of her family
history stuff and that would import her data files from windows. When I
said I'd install the programs for her to try out her response was "We
better bookmark all the links we found for the kids before you reboot." I
just smiled as I installed and fired up the first program and pushed the
mouse her way.
Anyway... to cut the story short, I got an email from her this morning
asking if I would mind putting Linux on her computer and installing some of
the programs we tried out that day. I'm burning her a set of RedHat CDs
right now :)
Kim
-- The best thing I ever did with Windows was download Linux.
Terry Porter
<tCtR7.36892$Yy.392547@rwcrnsc53> dashed off:
<snip>
>Anyway... to cut the story short, I got an email from her this morning
>asking if I would mind putting Linux on her computer and installing some of
>the programs we tried out that day. I'm burning her a set of RedHat CDs
>right now :)
Another cool thing is that if you install Linux on her PC, you will have
root access, and can telnet in to her box while you're on the net, after
talking to her on IRC (to get her dynamic ip) then you can admin her box,
add software etc all from home, without needing to go to her house.
Remote administration, made easy with Linux, no "Linux Pro" version
needed :)
>
>Kim
>
>-- The best thing I ever did with Windows was download Linux.
Catchy!
--
_
.' `. Free Micro Burner
|a_a| http://w3w.arafuraconnect.com.au/~tp/burn.html
Debian \ V /
2.2.20 /( )\ Linux Registration Number: 103931
|\`> < /\ http://counter.li.org
\_|=='|_/
* OSS is long-term credible ... FUD tactics can not be used to combat it.
Cihl
> needed :)
I have SuSE pro. Is that still okay? ;-)
Chris Ahlstrom
>> Remote administration, made easy with Linux, no "Linux Pro" version
>> needed :)
>
> I have SuSE pro. Is that still okay? ;-)
No, you need Debian Pro <grin>.
Chris
--
Living large and loving Linux!
Charlie Ebert
> At the Mokena town meeting, Cihl stood up and made this motion:
>
>>> Remote administration, made easy with Linux, no "Linux Pro" version
>>> needed :)
>>
>> I have SuSE pro. Is that still okay? ;-)
>
> No, you need Debian Pro <grin>.
>
> Chris
>
HA HA HA HA HA! Debian PRO!!
HA HA HA HA HA!!! On sale at COMP-USA for $89.95 today ONLY!
--
Charlie
Adam Warner
> On Tue, 11 Dec 2001 20:01:29 GMT, Kim in article
> <tCtR7.36892$Yy.392547@rwcrnsc53> dashed off:
>
> <snip>
>
>>Anyway... to cut the story short, I got an email from her this morning
>>asking if I would mind putting Linux on her computer and installing some
>>of the programs we tried out that day. I'm burning her a set of RedHat
>>CDs right now :)
>
> Another cool thing is that if you install Linux on her PC, you will have
> root access, and can telnet in to her box while you're on the net, after
> talking to her on IRC (to get her dynamic ip) then you can admin her
> box, add software etc all from home, without needing to go to her house.
I hope I didn't see you write telnet Terry ;-) Consider using ssh instead
and su to root when connected.
You might still want to visit your Mum some time :-)
Regards,
Adam
D. C. Sessions
> Another cool thing is that if you install Linux on her PC, you will have
> root access, and can telnet in to her box while you're on the net, after
-----------------------^^^^^^
> talking to her on IRC (to get her dynamic ip) then you can admin her box,
> add software etc all from home, without needing to go to her house.
>
> Remote administration, made easy with Linux, no "Linux Pro" version
> needed :)
With an open telnet port to the Internet side?
Are you *insane*?????
ssh, now, I could go for ....
--
| Microsoft: "A reputation for releasing inferior software will make |
| it more difficult for a software vendor to induce customers to pay |
| for new products or new versions of existing products." |
+----------- D. C. & M. V. Sessions <d...@lumbercartel.com> ----------+
Terry Porter
<9v6gbb$d8m5m$1...@ID-105510.news.dfncis.de> dashed off:
Good point Adam, I use telnet all the time on our boxes behind the firewall
so I do tend to forget to suggest using SSH instead. Thanks for the reminder.
>
>You might still want to visit your Mum some time :-)
:)
Terry Porter
<hns6v9...@news.lumbercartel.com> dashed off:
>In <slrna1cull....@gronk.porter.net> Terry Porter posted:
>
>> Another cool thing is that if you install Linux on her PC, you will have
>> root access, and can telnet in to her box while you're on the net, after
>-----------------------^^^^^^
>> talking to her on IRC (to get her dynamic ip) then you can admin her box,
>> add software etc all from home, without needing to go to her house.
>>
>> Remote administration, made easy with Linux, no "Linux Pro" version
>> needed :)
>
>With an open telnet port to the Internet side?
>Are you *insane*?????
Sometimes, but the pills help :)
Linux housewife, make sure that your telnet daemon is disabled, your
Linuxconfig server is disabled and that just about all net services are
disabled on your box.
Or get a seperate old PC and run Freesco on it like I do :)
>
>ssh, now, I could go for ....
Of course, my bad, I just forgot to mention it.
Johan Lindquist
> Good point Adam, I use telnet all the time on our boxes behind the firewall
> so I do tend to forget to suggest using SSH instead. Thanks for the reminder.
The obvious question here would be.. "Why?". There is no reason which I
can think of to actually even have telnet (or certainly telnetd for that
matter) installed on a networked (and if it's not networked, I guess
there's no reason either ;) ) computer today. I know I don't, it's more
or less the first thing I remove from a fresh linux install (along with
rlogin et al).
As an aside, I can mention that I've actually used IMAP instead of ftp
to transfer files a couple of times, since the particular IMAP session
was TLS-encrypted.. strange times makes for strange tools? :)
If you're stuck on the command, alias telnet to run ssh instead. *grin*
(I'm assuming the trailing "2" is implied and understood by everyone,
btw. Ssh version 1 is.. well.. I think the word is.. "unsafe"? ;) )
cheers,
/Johan
--
Time flies like the wind, fruit flies like bananas. Perth --> *
We search for the truth / We could die upon the tooth
But the thrill of just the chase / Is worth the pain
Ed Allen
Terry Porter <No-Spam> wrote:
>On Tue, 11 Dec 2001 23:16:17 -0700, D. C. Sessions in article
> <hns6v9...@news.lumbercartel.com> dashed off:
>>In <slrna1cull....@gronk.porter.net> Terry Porter posted:
>>
>>> Another cool thing is that if you install Linux on her PC, you will have
>>> root access, and can telnet in to her box while you're on the net, after
>>-----------------------^^^^^^
>>> talking to her on IRC (to get her dynamic ip) then you can admin her box,
>>> add software etc all from home, without needing to go to her house.
>>>
>>> Remote administration, made easy with Linux, no "Linux Pro" version
>>> needed :)
>>
>>With an open telnet port to the Internet side?
>>Are you *insane*?????
>
>Sometimes, but the pills help :)
>
>Linux housewife, make sure that your telnet daemon is disabled, your
>Linuxconfig server is disabled and that just about all net services are
>disabled on your box.
>
>Or get a seperate old PC and run Freesco on it like I do :)
>
>>
>>ssh, now, I could go for ....
>
>Of course, my bad, I just forgot to mention it.
>
habits.
Try adding 'alias telnet="Use ssh instead !"' to /etc/bashrc to
help you remember.
--
Unix has security which has been tested by conniving, unscrupulous
college students over generations.
Ed Allen
[...]
>Anyway... to cut the story short, I got an email from her this morning
>asking if I would mind putting Linux on her computer and installing some of
>the programs we tried out that day. I'm burning her a set of RedHat CDs
>right now :)
>
willing to help install and get it working when asked.
Congratulations Kim. Thank you for a wonderful story.
Ian Pulsford
Turn off telnet and ssh and make yourself a null-modem cable.
IanP
Kim
Thanks for the kind comments. Don't worry about the telnet issue, I'm aware
that that's a security problem. SSH works on my box and I'm sure it will be
no prob to set up on Moms. I'm sure Terry poked himself for that one right
after hitting 'send' ;)
My biggest concern is setting up her modem. I haven't had to deal with a
modem before and my husband tells me that she has a winmodem. Unless the
cable connection she ordered gets installed before we go over for X-mas
(doubtfull), I'll have to loan her my old USR serial port modem. I'll have
to plug it in here and learn how to set it up. Looks like there is lots of
info available.
Peace to you and yours;
Kim (The Linux Housewife)
GreyCloud
> Terry Porter wrote:
>
>> Good point Adam, I use telnet all the time on our boxes behind the
>> firewall so I do tend to forget to suggest using SSH instead. Thanks for
>> the reminder.
>
>
> The obvious question here would be.. "Why?". There is no reason which I
> can think of to actually even have telnet (or certainly telnetd for that
> matter) installed on a networked (and if it's not networked, I guess
> there's no reason either ;) ) computer today. I know I don't, it's more
> or less the first thing I remove from a fresh linux install (along with
> rlogin et al).
>
> As an aside, I can mention that I've actually used IMAP instead of ftp
> to transfer files a couple of times, since the particular IMAP session
> was TLS-encrypted.. strange times makes for strange tools? :)
>
> If you're stuck on the command, alias telnet to run ssh instead. *grin*
>
> (I'm assuming the trailing "2" is implied and understood by everyone,
> btw. Ssh version 1 is.. well.. I think the word is.. "unsafe"? ;) )
>
I use telnet on my linux side on a lan to communicate to my vax... the vax
has no keyboard or montior or mouse.
Terry Porter
<9v5uk0$oc$2...@news.hccnet.nl> dashed off:
>> Remote administration, made easy with Linux, no "Linux Pro" version
>> needed :)
>
>I have SuSE pro. Is that still okay? ;-)
Absolutely, and may I congratulate you on a fine choice of operating
system :)
Terry Porter
<3C1710E7...@as-if.com> dashed off:
>Terry Porter wrote:
>
>> Good point Adam, I use telnet all the time on our boxes behind the firewall
>> so I do tend to forget to suggest using SSH instead. Thanks for the reminder.
>
>
>The obvious question here would be.. "Why?".
Actually I wondered why myself, and the answer is simple :-
I use Freesco as a seperate router/firewall/ipmasquer/dialer and
it only has telnet client installed. I keep that facility as a
back up in case I need remote access to my Linux box.
Adding SSH to Freesco is too hard atm.
Johan Lindquist
> Johan Lindquist wrote:
>>The obvious question here would be.. "Why?". There is no reason which I
>>can think of to actually even have telnet (or certainly telnetd for that
>>matter) installed on a networked (and if it's not networked, I guess
>>there's no reason either ;) ) computer today. I know I don't, it's more
>>or less the first thing I remove from a fresh linux install (along with
>>rlogin et al).
<snip>
> I use telnet on my linux side on a lan to communicate to my vax... the vax
> has no keyboard or montior or mouse.
Okay, I stand (well, sit, actually, but anyway..) corrected. :)
Johan Lindquist
> On Wed, 12 Dec 2001 09:10:15 +0100, Johan Lindquist in article
> <3C1710E7...@as-if.com> dashed off:
>
>>Terry Porter wrote:
>>
>>
>>>Good point Adam, I use telnet all the time on our boxes behind the firewall
>>>so I do tend to forget to suggest using SSH instead. Thanks for the reminder.
>>>
>>
>>The obvious question here would be.. "Why?".
>>
>
> Actually I wondered why myself, and the answer is simple :-
>
> I use Freesco as a seperate router/firewall/ipmasquer/dialer and
> it only has telnet client installed. I keep that facility as a
> back up in case I need remote access to my Linux box.
>
> Adding SSH to Freesco is too hard atm.
Okay, so your problem is in fact that you need a new router which lives
up to modern-day paranoia standards? :)
cheers,
/Johan, working on a degree in paranoia
Terry Porter
<3C18607A...@as-if.com> dashed off:
>Terry Porter wrote:
>> I use Freesco as a seperate router/firewall/ipmasquer/dialer and
>> it only has telnet client installed. I keep that facility as a
>> back up in case I need remote access to my Linux box.
>>
>> Adding SSH to Freesco is too hard atm.
>
>
>Okay, so your problem is in fact that you need a new router which lives
>up to modern-day paranoia standards? :)
No, I think the problem is I need a major dose of incentive to change
Freesco which is working nicely, and allowing my life to proceed with
startling regularity from day to day :)
Plus the firewall is so good I cant even get any ports on the PC's behind
it, from outside.
I don't think telnet is a problem from where I am.
Cheers, from Terry, whose Freesco paranoia pill did wonders for him.
Johan Lindquist
> On Thu, 13 Dec 2001 09:02:02 +0100, Johan Lindquist in article
> <3C18607A...@as-if.com> dashed off:
>
>>Terry Porter wrote:
>>
>
>>>I use Freesco as a seperate router/firewall/ipmasquer/dialer and
>>>it only has telnet client installed. I keep that facility as a
>>>back up in case I need remote access to my Linux box.
>>>
>>>Adding SSH to Freesco is too hard atm.
>>>
>>
>>Okay, so your problem is in fact that you need a new router which lives
>>up to modern-day paranoia standards? :)
>>
>
> No, I think the problem is I need a major dose of incentive to change
> Freesco which is working nicely, and allowing my life to proceed with
> startling regularity from day to day :)
Regularity, schmegularity. ;)
Actually I think I should look into the freesco thing.. or
do I read too much into your text when I assume it's got some
sort of remote administration facility?
I recently suffered the loss of my trusty (pah!) old (ancient might be a
better word firewall box' hard drive, so I'm currently letting floppyfw
temp for the openbsd I had running on it. (And this just days before
openbsd 3.0 was released too - the humanity of it!) Unfortunately, there
is very little in the way of administering it from anything else than
the console, and since named console is sitting on the floor of the
little basement hideout my servers have been confined to (the noise
those disks tend to make isn't appreciated by my better half, or by
myself for that matter), I don't much enjoy tweaking it the way it deserves.
Or are there any other good options (beside the obvious replacement of
the hd, which for several embarrasing reasons I'm not able to do at this
point in time) for a pc-based firewall box with a hard drive that tries
to interprete a small drilling tool on power up?
cheers,
/Johan
Terry Porter
<3C189B84...@as-if.com> dashed off:
>Regularity, schmegularity. ;)
You'll appreciate it more when you reach my decrepit old age :)
>
>
>Actually I think I should look into the freesco thing.. or
>
>do I read too much into your text when I assume it's got some
>
>sort of remote administration facility?
You read right, it has an internal http server that you point
your browser at, and configure as you wish. It also has a print
server, a telnet client, port forwarding and IP banning, either
external or internal :)
Hahahah, the *power* IP banning gave me over my kids!
>Or are there any other good options (beside the obvious replacement of
>the hd, which for several embarrasing reasons I'm not able to do at this
>point in time) for a pc-based firewall box with a hard drive that tries
>to interprete a small drilling tool on power up?
Hahahah, Freesco can run from a single floppy, no hard drive needed, but
16 megs of ram will be.
Cheers
Terry
Johan Lindquist
> Or are there any other good options (beside the obvious replacement of
> the hd, which for several embarrasing reasons I'm not able to do at this
> point in time) for a pc-based firewall box with a hard drive that tries
> to interprete a small drilling tool on power up?
^^^^^^^^^^
Okay, so it's not good form replying to your own posts, but I really
have to. What _was_ I trying to type here? Impersonate, possibly.
Johan Lindquist
> On Thu, 13 Dec 2001 13:13:56 +0100, Johan Lindquist in article
> <3C189B84...@as-if.com> dashed off:
>>Regularity, schmegularity. ;)
>>
>
> You'll appreciate it more when you reach my decrepit old age :)
Again with the age thing, huh? You don't scare me, you know. :P
>>Actually I think I should look into the freesco thing.. or
Thanks, been there and done that now. I hold you personally responsible
if this (surprisingly colourful) thing blows up.
> Hahahah, Freesco can run from a single floppy, no hard drive needed, but
> 16 megs of ram will be.
I knew it! I knew I'd catch you if I just waited! Must be the old age
thing, huh? "16 megs of ram", who are you trying to fool? Now stop
trolling and admit it only needs 6. :)
D. C. Sessions
> Terry Porter wrote:
>> On Thu, 13 Dec 2001 13:13:56 +0100, Johan Lindquist in article
>> <3C189B84...@as-if.com> dashed off:
>>>Actually I think I should look into the freesco thing.. or
Indeed you should.
I must say that with an old P166-based box running Freesco behind
the Cisco DSL router (which itself provides a fair bit of paranoia)
the Sessions LAN is remarkably hard to see, much less hit.
Johan Lindquist
> In <3C18AFF...@as-if.com> Johan Lindquist posted:
>
>>Terry Porter wrote:
>>
>>>On Thu, 13 Dec 2001 13:13:56 +0100, Johan Lindquist in article
>>> <3C189B84...@as-if.com> dashed off:
>>>
>
>>>>Actually I think I should look into the freesco thing.. or
>>>>
>
> Indeed you should.
>
> I must say that with an old P166-based box running Freesco
Eh, what overkill. ;) I'm sure my old P-90 could handle quite a bit more
throughput than the measly half-megabit adsl which is all we can get in
this forsaken part of the land. :)
Terry Porter
<3C18AFF...@as-if.com> dashed off:
>> You'll appreciate it more when you reach my decrepit old age :)
>
>
>Again with the age thing, huh? You don't scare me, you know. :P
Hahahaha, not yet you're not, wait a while .... ;-)
>> http://www.freesco.org
>
>
>Thanks, been there and done that now. I hold you personally responsible
>if this (surprisingly colourful) thing blows up.
Youve installed it already ?
>
>
>> Hahahah, Freesco can run from a single floppy, no hard drive needed, but
>> 16 megs of ram will be.
>
>
>I knew it! I knew I'd catch you if I just waited! Must be the old age
>thing, huh? "16 megs of ram", who are you trying to fool? Now stop
>trolling and admit it only needs 6. :)
Yeah 6 megs and a Cray3Gigahertz!
Mine sucked with 8 megs!
Cheers :)
GreyCloud
> Terry Porter wrote:
>
>> On Wed, 12 Dec 2001 09:10:15 +0100, Johan Lindquist in article
>> <3C1710E7...@as-if.com> dashed off:
>>
>>>Terry Porter wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>>Good point Adam, I use telnet all the time on our boxes behind the
>>>>firewall so I do tend to forget to suggest using SSH instead. Thanks for
>>>>the reminder.
>>>>
>>>
>>>The obvious question here would be.. "Why?".
>>>
>>
>> Actually I wondered why myself, and the answer is simple :-
>>
>> I use Freesco as a seperate router/firewall/ipmasquer/dialer and
>> it only has telnet client installed. I keep that facility as a
>> back up in case I need remote access to my Linux box.
>>
>> Adding SSH to Freesco is too hard atm.
>
>
> Okay, so your problem is in fact that you need a new router which lives
> up to modern-day paranoia standards? :)
>
> cheers,
>
> /Johan, working on a degree in paranoia
>
Talk to my sister about paranoia.
My firewall and router is Linksys and it works ok.
GreyCloud
I think you better catch up to the 21st century.
Get some good high speed SCSI hard drives that are quiet.
Not those old noisy clunkers. And get hardware firewall.
GreyCloud
> Terry Porter wrote:
>
>> On Thu, 13 Dec 2001 13:13:56 +0100, Johan Lindquist in article
>> <3C189B84...@as-if.com> dashed off:
>>>Regularity, schmegularity. ;)
>>>
>>
>> You'll appreciate it more when you reach my decrepit old age :)
>
>
> Again with the age thing, huh? You don't scare me, you know. :P
>
>
Experience should scare you tho.
>
> Thanks, been there and done that now. I hold you personally responsible
> if this (surprisingly colourful) thing blows up.
>
>
That only depends upon your competency.
>> Hahahah, Freesco can run from a single floppy, no hard drive needed, but
>> 16 megs of ram will be.
>
>
> I knew it! I knew I'd catch you if I just waited! Must be the old age
> thing, huh? "16 megs of ram", who are you trying to fool? Now stop
> trolling and admit it only needs 6. :)
>
More M$ thought poisoning. Why waste money?
16Mb is easy and cheap to come by.
GreyCloud
> D. C. Sessions wrote:
>
>> In <3C18AFF...@as-if.com> Johan Lindquist posted:
>>
>>>Terry Porter wrote:
>>>
>>>>On Thu, 13 Dec 2001 13:13:56 +0100, Johan Lindquist in article
>>>> <3C189B84...@as-if.com> dashed off:
>>>>
>>
>>>>>Actually I think I should look into the freesco thing.. or
>>>>>
>>
>> Indeed you should.
>>
>> I must say that with an old P166-based box running Freesco
>
>
> Eh, what overkill. ;) I'm sure my old P-90 could handle quite a bit more
> throughput than the measly half-megabit adsl which is all we can get in
> this forsaken part of the land. :)
Ah, I see you rate things by clock rate do we?
Is your bus upto synching up to this speed??
Without data loss and delays??
Johan Lindquist
> Johan Lindquist wrote:
<snippety-snip>
>>Or are there any other good options (beside the obvious replacement of
>>the hd, which for several embarrasing reasons I'm not able to do at this
>>point in time) for a pc-based firewall box with a hard drive that tries
>>to interprete a small drilling tool on power up?
>>
>
> I think you better catch up to the 21st century.
> Get some good high speed SCSI hard drives that are quiet.
> Not those old noisy clunkers. And get hardware firewall.
The 46 and 75 gig ide ibms I have work just fine for my file sharing
needs, thankyouverymuch. And I have one of those hardware firewalls,
it's currently connecting my wireless lan to the wired part (where the
file server and router/fw sits). Works great for that, but I can't (for
example) do imap port forwarding with it. I like to have the flexibility
of a 21st century operating system like openbsd >2.8 to go along with my
20th century hardware.
I'm not sure what your beef with me is (also regarding the memory issue
in the other post (oh, that machine actually has 80M ram in it, quite
sufficient for its use as a small firewall appliance)), or if you're
just along for the slight bantering between me and Terry here. Guess I
don't litter my postings with enough smileys, but I figured the previous
tone of the postings should tell people it's all in good fun and not
some holy war.
Johan Lindquist
Yeah, that mean lean (1993 vintage) machine sure has the bus rate to
match its whizzing 90 megacycles of raw computing power, I tell ya! And
those 10/100 3com state-of-the-art ethernet bad boys do a fine job of
pushing the endless stream of high-powered 512/64 kbit adsl electrons
trough it as well. Smokin'!!
cheers,
/Johan
ps. here are some smileys, sprinkle as needed if the above seems
offensive without them: :) :) ;) =) :) :*
Johan Lindquist
> On Thu, 13 Dec 2001 14:41:09 +0100, Johan Lindquist in article
> <3C18AFF...@as-if.com> dashed off:
>
>>>You'll appreciate it more when you reach my decrepit old age :)
>>>
>>
>>Again with the age thing, huh? You don't scare me, you know. :P
>>
>
> Hahahaha, not yet you're not, wait a while .... ;-)
What, you're gonna break out the scary halloween false teeth now? :)
>>>http://www.freesco.org
>>>
>>
>>Thanks, been there and done that now. I hold you personally responsible
>>if this (surprisingly colourful) thing blows up.
>>
>
> Youve installed it already ?
I have now, but yesterday I'd just booted it up for a quick gander at
another box. Long enough to notice the happy colouring scheme. ;)
Ran into a bit of a snag tho, possibly due to lack of proper RTFM
practices. It won't recognize my pci 3com ethernet cards like floppyfw
did automagically. I'm assuming there's some module I need to add and I
didn't have the time to bother with it yesterday. Otherwise it seemed
spiffy enough.
>>>Hahahah, Freesco can run from a single floppy, no hard drive needed, but
>>>16 megs of ram will be.
>>I knew it! I knew I'd catch you if I just waited! Must be the old age
>>thing, huh? "16 megs of ram", who are you trying to fool? Now stop
>>trolling and admit it only needs 6. :)
>>
>
> Yeah 6 megs and a Cray3Gigahertz!
>
> Mine sucked with 8 megs!
I'm glad I actually have 80 of them in that one then.
Johan Lindquist
> Johan Lindquist wrote:
>
>>Terry Porter wrote:
>>
>>>On Thu, 13 Dec 2001 13:13:56 +0100, Johan Lindquist in article
>>> <3C189B84...@as-if.com> dashed off:
>>>
>>>>Regularity, schmegularity. ;)
>>>>
>>>You'll appreciate it more when you reach my decrepit old age :)
>>>
>>
>>Again with the age thing, huh? You don't scare me, you know. :P
>>
>
> Experience should scare you tho.
It's called respect, not fear. I don't fear experience, except perhaps
when it's being misused. I don't believe that's the case with Terry.
>>Thanks, been there and done that now. I hold you personally responsible
>>if this (surprisingly colourful) thing blows up.
>>
>
> That only depends upon your competency.
Uh, yeah. I was being serious too. Rilly I was.
>>>Hahahah, Freesco can run from a single floppy, no hard drive needed, but
>>>16 megs of ram will be.
>>>
>>
>>I knew it! I knew I'd catch you if I just waited! Must be the old age
>>thing, huh? "16 megs of ram", who are you trying to fool? Now stop
>>trolling and admit it only needs 6. :)
>>
>
> More M$ thought poisoning. Why waste money?
> 16Mb is easy and cheap to come by.
Actually I'm not sure you can buy that small amounts today, and if you
can, I'm not sure there's a small enough coin anymore. ;)
Anyroads, don't worry about it. I'm pretty sure I won't have a problem
running it on 80 megs if the requirements says 6. That should even be
enough had it been a microsoft spec, multiplying requirements by ten
usually gives a good yield for ms stuff.
Terry Porter
<3C199EB...@as-if.com> dashed off:
>Terry Porter wrote:
>
>> On Thu, 13 Dec 2001 14:41:09 +0100, Johan Lindquist in article
>> <3C18AFF...@as-if.com> dashed off:
>>
>What, you're gonna break out the scary halloween false teeth now? :)
No, I wear them permanently ;-)
>I have now, but yesterday I'd just booted it up for a quick gander at
>another box. Long enough to notice the happy colouring scheme. ;)
Yeah its cool!
>
>Ran into a bit of a snag tho, possibly due to lack of proper RTFM
>practices. It won't recognize my pci 3com ethernet cards like floppyfw
>did automagically. I'm assuming there's some module I need to add and I
>didn't have the time to bother with it yesterday. Otherwise it seemed
>spiffy enough.
If I remember correctly, you need to d/l the Freesco thats set up for
your NIC ?
>> Mine sucked with 8 megs!
>
>
>I'm glad I actually have 80 of them in that one then.
80 Megs Ram ?
Cheers
Terry
Johan Lindquist
> On Fri, 14 Dec 2001 07:39:45 +0100, Johan Lindquist in article
> <3C199EB...@as-if.com> dashed off:
>
>>What, you're gonna break out the scary halloween false teeth now? :)
>
> No, I wear them permanently ;-)
Okay, now I *am* getting scared.
>>I have now, but yesterday I'd just booted it up for a quick gander at
>>another box. Long enough to notice the happy colouring scheme. ;)
>
> Yeah its cool!
The green and red labels were a nice touch, but I'm not so sure about
the rainbow-coloured root prompt. *grin*
>>Ran into a bit of a snag tho, possibly due to lack of proper RTFM
>>practices. It won't recognize my pci 3com ethernet cards like floppyfw
>>did automagically. I'm assuming there's some module I need to add and I
>>didn't have the time to bother with it yesterday. Otherwise it seemed
>>spiffy enough.
>
> If I remember correctly, you need to d/l the Freesco thats set up for
> your NIC ?
Possibly. I'll look into it one of these days.
>>>Mine sucked with 8 megs!
>>
>>I'm glad I actually have 80 of them in that one then.
>
> 80 Megs Ram ?
Well yeah. Got a problem with that, old-timer? *wink, nudge*
Johan Lindquist
> On Fri, 14 Dec 2001 07:29:47 +0100, Johan Lindquist
> <cat...@as-if.com> wrote:
>
>>The 46 and 75 gig ide ibms I have work just fine for my file sharing
>>needs, thankyouverymuch.
>
> At the moment.
>
> Hopefully they will continue to function :(
>
> But if you have the aftermentioned models, good luck because you will
> need it.
My, you're a gloomy pussy, aren't you.
Thanks for the info tho.
GreyCloud
No, no beef. Just don't know yet what your true technical situation is.
If you want fast hard drives there are the 15,000 rpm scsi drives. But I
know that it is better to have hardware firewalling than software
firewalling. But, money is always the final factor. Terry knows me.
I trust Terry in his assesments of people. I'm just saying that if you
really want a quiet environment use more modern equipment. I have an old
clunker hard drive in my vax and I'm going to replace it with a much faster
scsi hard drive to make it quiet.
Johan Lindquist
> Johan Lindquist wrote:
>
>>GreyCloud wrote:
>>
>>>I think you better catch up to the 21st century.
>>>Get some good high speed SCSI hard drives that are quiet.
>>>Not those old noisy clunkers. And get hardware firewall.
>>>
>>
>>The 46 and 75 gig ide ibms I have work just fine for my file sharing
>>needs, thankyouverymuch. And I have one of those hardware firewalls,
>>it's currently connecting my wireless lan to the wired part (where the
>>file server and router/fw sits). Works great for that, but I can't (for
>>example) do imap port forwarding with it. I like to have the flexibility
>>of a 21st century operating system like openbsd >2.8 to go along with my
>>20th century hardware.
>>
>>I'm not sure what your beef with me is (also regarding the memory issue
>>in the other post (oh, that machine actually has 80M ram in it, quite
>>sufficient for its use as a small firewall appliance)), or if you're
>>just along for the slight bantering between me and Terry here. Guess I
>>don't litter my postings with enough smileys, but I figured the previous
>>tone of the postings should tell people it's all in good fun and not
>>some holy war.
>>
>>
>
> No, no beef. Just don't know yet what your true technical situation is.
I'm don't go for the cheapest option, since being a tech for a while has
taught me that what you get cheap almost inevitably costs you more in
the end, but I tend to use things until they can't be used any more.
Since I had a couple of old pentium boxen, I used those to set up a file
server with just a new ide controller and a couple of (okay, so this was
two or three years ago) up-to-date ide disks plus a router/firewall.
The fileserver is running linux (no performance issues what so ever on a
P-166 sharing files and doing web/ftp) and the router was running
openbsd until the admittedly ancient disk on it recently choked.
Granted, this was a setback, but the computer came for free to begin
with. Until I replace the disk (or the whole thing), I'm using a floppy
firewall solution.
> If you want fast hard drives there are the 15,000 rpm scsi drives.
I don't need that sort of hardware in my home network. Obviously, I love
to have disks that you can fry eggs on as much as the next guy, but it's
still plenty overkill at home.
> But I know that it is better to have hardware firewalling than software
> firewalling.
I disagree. The openbsd box gave me _tons_ more control (while still
being secure) than the floppy for one does, and certainly the intel wap
can't even being to compete in usefulness. Otoh I didn't get that one to
use as a firewall, so it does its job nicely as a wireless/tp bridge of
sorts.
> But, money is always the final factor.
No argument there. :) However, that's not what makes me prefer a sw
firewall solution.
> Terry knows me. I trust Terry in his assesments of people.
As little as I know of him, I think he's one of the more level-headed
denizens of this forsaken place. (Yes, Terry, that was supposed to be a
compliment.) ;)
> I'm just saying that if you really want a quiet environment use more
> modern equipment.
I don't think there is a modern enough equipment to make me want to have
any computer, save one completely devoid of moving parts, running 24/7
anywhere in the house where I spend time not using it actively.
Did that make any sense at all? I'm not sure. :)
> I have an old clunker hard drive in my vax and I'm going to replace
> it with a much faster scsi hard drive to make it quiet.
Of course it depends on your situation. I happen to have a spare
crawlspace under the basement stairs, so I put the stuff there along
with the adsl modem and all that instead of shutting them up. All other
things aside, it's kinda fun playing techie again as well, setting up a
server room of my own. ;)
I apologize if I sounded annoyed before, I think I caught some kind of..
I dunno. Sounded like you thought I was serious in my attempts to get on
Terry's bad side. I don't usually like to make enemies where I don't
have them. The "better catch up to the 21st century" prolly didn't help
either, I fancy myself a modern enough guy, thank you. :)
Terry Porter
<3C1B2CFF...@as-if.com> dashed off:
>GreyCloud wrote:
>> Terry knows me. I trust Terry in his assesments of people.
>
>
>As little as I know of him, I think he's one of the more level-headed
>denizens of this forsaken place. (Yes, Terry, that was supposed to be a
>compliment.) ;)
Guys please, I can only take so much of this at any one time :)
>I apologize if I sounded annoyed before, I think I caught some kind of..
>I dunno. Sounded like you thought I was serious in my attempts to get on
>Terry's bad side.
And that would be sad because Johan is a excellent joker, and thinks fast
on his feet!
> I don't usually like to make enemies where I don't
>have them. The "better catch up to the 21st century" prolly didn't help
>either, I fancy myself a modern enough guy, thank you. :)
Grey and you should get along just fine imho, I think both you guys
are cool :)
Best Regards
Terry
GreyCloud
>> No, no beef. Just don't know yet what your true technical situation is.
>
>
> I'm don't go for the cheapest option, since being a tech for a while has
> taught me that what you get cheap almost inevitably costs you more in
> the end, but I tend to use things until they can't be used any more.
In the home area yes. It was a problem with the pointy-haired bosses that
didn't understand quality and price. Cheap always gets you into trouble.
> Since I had a couple of old pentium boxen, I used those to set up a file
> server with just a new ide controller and a couple of (okay, so this was
> two or three years ago) up-to-date ide disks plus a router/firewall.
> The fileserver is running linux (no performance issues what so ever on a
> P-166 sharing files and doing web/ftp) and the router was running
> openbsd until the admittedly ancient disk on it recently choked.
> Granted, this was a setback, but the computer came for free to begin
> with. Until I replace the disk (or the whole thing), I'm using a floppy
> firewall solution.
>
In that case why Not? So would I. Of course redhat 7.1 came with a
software setup program that seems to be working just fine for me.
>
>> If you want fast hard drives there are the 15,000 rpm scsi drives.
>
>
> I don't need that sort of hardware in my home network. Obviously, I love
> to have disks that you can fry eggs on as much as the next guy, but it's
> still plenty overkill at home.
>
In this case the cheap 7200 rpm drives are good enough. Better than by
wifes' 3300 rpm HP drive.
>> But I know that it is better to have hardware firewalling than software
>> firewalling.
>
>
> I disagree. The openbsd box gave me _tons_ more control (while still
> being secure) than the floppy for one does, and certainly the intel wap
> can't even being to compete in usefulness. Otoh I didn't get that one to
> use as a firewall, so it does its job nicely as a wireless/tp bridge of
> sorts.
>
I see it as software can be subverted if its in ram. I don't know a way to
subvert firewall software in ROM.
>> But, money is always the final factor.
>
>
> No argument there. :) However, that's not what makes me prefer a sw
> firewall solution.
>
Price and ease of use. Look into the new linksys 4 port DSL Routers.
The price is going down.
>> Terry knows me. I trust Terry in his assesments of people.
>
>
> As little as I know of him, I think he's one of the more level-headed
> denizens of this forsaken place. (Yes, Terry, that was supposed to be a
> compliment.) ;)
>
>> I'm just saying that if you really want a quiet environment use more
>
>> modern equipment.
>
>
> I don't think there is a modern enough equipment to make me want to have
> any computer, save one completely devoid of moving parts, running 24/7
> anywhere in the house where I spend time not using it actively.
>
> Did that make any sense at all? I'm not sure. :)
>
>> I have an old clunker hard drive in my vax and I'm going to replace
>
>> it with a much faster scsi hard drive to make it quiet.
>
>
> Of course it depends on your situation. I happen to have a spare
> crawlspace under the basement stairs, so I put the stuff there along
> with the adsl modem and all that instead of shutting them up. All other
> things aside, it's kinda fun playing techie again as well, setting up a
> server room of my own. ;)
>
> I apologize if I sounded annoyed before, I think I caught some kind of..
> I dunno. Sounded like you thought I was serious in my attempts to get on
> Terry's bad side. I don't usually like to make enemies where I don't
> have them. The "better catch up to the 21st century" prolly didn't help
> either, I fancy myself a modern enough guy, thank you. :)
>
>
That's ok... I'm more annoyed at my dentist at this time than anybody.
Johan Lindquist
> Johan Lindquist wrote:
> In the home area yes. It was a problem with the pointy-haired bosses that
> didn't understand quality and price. Cheap always gets you into trouble.
Of course, pointy-haired bosses are a problem in and of themselves. ;)
>>>But I know that it is better to have hardware firewalling than software
>>>firewalling.
>>
>>I disagree. The openbsd box gave me _tons_ more control (while still
>>being secure) than the floppy for one does, and certainly the intel wap
>>can't even being to compete in usefulness. Otoh I didn't get that one to
>>use as a firewall, so it does its job nicely as a wireless/tp bridge of
>>sorts.
>
> I see it as software can be subverted if its in ram. I don't know a way to
> subvert firewall software in ROM.
Valid point. The software has the advantage of being easier to upgrade
if a vulnerability is discovered. Perhaps not a huge advantage, this
being the age of flash hw updates and all. I guess it's more or less
personal preference in the end. At least in the home network area.
>>>But, money is always the final factor.
>>No argument there. :) However, that's not what makes me prefer a sw
>>firewall solution.
> Price and ease of use. Look into the new linksys 4 port DSL Routers.
> The price is going down.
I'm sure. The wireless kit I got come pretty cheap considering it
included two pcmcia cards for our laptops. I very much enjoyed the first
time surfing the web from the couch. ;)
Jim Richardson
> On Tue, 11 Dec 2001 20:01:29 GMT, Kim in article
> <tCtR7.36892$Yy.392547@rwcrnsc53> dashed off:
>
><snip>
>
>>Anyway... to cut the story short, I got an email from her this morning
>>asking if I would mind putting Linux on her computer and installing some of
>>the programs we tried out that day. I'm burning her a set of RedHat CDs
>>right now :)
>
> Another cool thing is that if you install Linux on her PC, you will have
> root access, and can telnet in to her box while you're on the net, after
> talking to her on IRC (to get her dynamic ip) then you can admin her box,
> add software etc all from home, without needing to go to her house.
>
> Remote administration, made easy with Linux, no "Linux Pro" version
> needed :)
>
>
ack! no! not telnet... telnet is evil... ssh.....
>
>>Kim
>>
>>-- The best thing I ever did with Windows was download Linux.
>
> Catchy!
>
>
>
--
Jim Richardson
Anarchist, pagan and proud of it
www.eskimo.com/~warlock
Linux, because life's too short for a buggy OS.
Jim Richardson
> Terry Porter wrote:
>
>> Good point Adam, I use telnet all the time on our boxes behind the firewall
>> so I do tend to forget to suggest using SSH instead. Thanks for the reminder.
>
>
> can think of to actually even have telnet (or certainly telnetd for that
> matter) installed on a networked (and if it's not networked, I guess
> there's no reason either ;) ) computer today. I know I don't, it's more
> or less the first thing I remove from a fresh linux install (along with
> rlogin et al).
>
> As an aside, I can mention that I've actually used IMAP instead of ftp
> to transfer files a couple of times, since the particular IMAP session
> was TLS-encrypted.. strange times makes for strange tools? :)
>
> If you're stuck on the command, alias telnet to run ssh instead. *grin*
>
> (I'm assuming the trailing "2" is implied and understood by everyone,
> btw. Ssh version 1 is.. well.. I think the word is.. "unsafe"? ;) )
>
I have to interface with a bunch of hardware with a telnet connection,
no ssh available. Which sucks, but that's the manufacturers choice.
Still, if it's not on a network subject to sniffing, it's not too bad.
Matt Greer
> Another cool thing is that if you install Linux on her PC, you will have
> root access, and can telnet in to her box while you're on the net, after
> talking to her on IRC (to get her dynamic ip) then you can admin her box,
> add software etc all from home, without needing to go to her house.
>
Mmmmmmm... I am getting sick of going to relative's houses and fixing their
winboxes. Think I can convince them to switch to Linux? I'd
probably have an easier time convincing Bill Gates :)
Matt
Arthur
I've been slowly trying to convince friends that I don't understand
Windows (which is becoming true), but I don't want them to switch to
Linux unless they're really interested (most of them could nowadays).
I did convince one friend to buy an iMac though.
A lot of MS execs have expensive summer homes here (your Microsoft-tax
dollars at work), and I'm thinking of putting together a list of phone
numbers for technical support :)
Arthur
Terry Porter
<QQ9T7.28788$va.13...@news2.rdc1.mi.home.com> dashed off:
You never know Matt.
I installed Suse on a friends PC around 3 years ago, and he is still running
it, same version and hes on the net everyday. Ive since moved 4000 kilometers
away and if I want to I can still admin that box over the internet, just
as I used to when I lived only 10 kilometers away from him.
He's an average computer user, ex Windows, and I doubt if he could even
compile a Linux app, which explains why his version of Xchat (IRC client) is
still the same one I installed, 1.4.0 back then.
If a Linux box is pre installed with the apps they need, they will be happy.
Terry Porter
<3C1D2C18...@usa.net> dashed off:
>Matt Greer wrote:
>
>> Terry Porter wrote:
>
>>>Another cool thing is that if you install Linux on her PC, you will have
>>>root access, and can telnet in to her box while you're on the net, after
>>>talking to her on IRC (to get her dynamic ip) then you can admin her box,
>>>add software etc all from home, without needing to go to her house.
>
>
>> Mmmmmmm... I am getting sick of going to relative's houses and fixing their
>> winboxes. Think I can convince them to switch to Linux? I'd
>> probably have an easier time convincing Bill Gates :)
>
>
>I've been slowly trying to convince friends that I don't understand
>Windows (which is becoming true), but I don't want them to switch to
>Linux unless they're really interested (most of them could nowadays).
>I did convince one friend to buy an iMac though.
I charge friends $100 to install Linux and the apps they want, after
that I admin it for a few months, remotely, then they are on their own.
Better deal than Windows.
>
>A lot of MS execs have expensive summer homes here (your Microsoft-tax
>dollars at work), and I'm thinking of putting together a list of phone
>numbers for technical support :)
Hahahah, I *refuse* to admin Windows boxes anymore, I don't need the
stress.
GreyCloud
Do what I do... give em an excuse why you can't do it.
Better yet, when you're there, just throw up your hands and say "Well, it
looks like its to the local repair shop." Later they'll leave you alone.
The Ghost In The Machine
<now...@nowhere.co.uk>
wrote
on Mon, 17 Dec 2001 08:04:03 +0000 (UTC)
<fi9r1u8eoruc6u4s6...@4ax.com>:
> On Sun, 16 Dec 2001 22:48:53 GMT, in comp.os.linux.advocacy,
> (Jim Richardson <war...@eskimo.com>) wrote:
>
>>On Wed, 12 Dec 2001 08:29:25 +1100,
>>Terry Porter <tjpo...@gronk.porter.net> wrote:
>>
>>> Another cool thing is that if you install Linux on her PC, you will have
>>> root access, and can telnet in to her box while you're on the net, after
>>> talking to her on IRC (to get her dynamic ip) then you can admin her box,
>>> add software etc all from home, without needing to go to her house.
>>>
>>> Remote administration, made easy with Linux, no "Linux Pro" version
>>> needed :)
>>
>>ack! no! not telnet... telnet is evil... ssh.....
>
Within certain limitations. One would *not* want to put
a secure machine running telnetd on the open Internet, for example.
(Not unless you want every hacker who knows how to play
"sniff the password".)
(Easy demonstration: tcpdump -i eth0 src srcnode; then
telnet in and see the keystrokes.)
--
ew...@aimnet.com -- insert random misquote here
EAC code #191 0d:06h:52m actually running Linux.
We are all naked underneath our clothes.
The Ghost In The Machine
<4jnu1uckgkr1u48rb...@4ax.com>:
> On Tue, 18 Dec 2001 01:44:09 GMT, in comp.os.linux.advocacy,
> (The Ghost In The Machine <ew...@lexideb.athghost7038suus.net>) wrote:
>
>>In comp.os.linux.advocacy, drsquare
>><now...@nowhere.co.uk>
>>
>>>>> Remote administration, made easy with Linux, no "Linux Pro" version
>>>>> needed :)
>>>>
>>>>ack! no! not telnet... telnet is evil... ssh.....
>>>
>>> What? Telnet is great.
>>
>>Within certain limitations. One would *not* want to put
>>a secure machine running telnetd on the open Internet, for example.
>>(Not unless you want every hacker who knows how to play
>>"sniff the password".)
>>
>>(Easy demonstration: tcpdump -i eth0 src srcnode; then
>>telnet in and see the keystrokes.)
>
Ah, you've already been enlightened, then. Well done. :-)
--
ew...@aimnet.com -- insert random plug for SSH here
EAC code #191 1d:11h:08m actually running Linux.
Does this message really exist? Where?