OT: You Linux candy-asses better not be hiring anyone to refurbish your doors

[DFS]

A while back I bought a small, older house and am now doing some
renovations, one of which is the back "storm door".

It's an old, wooden door with two sections of screen, plus a metal grate
(to keep feral cats out) at the bottom. The door is in a serious state
of nastiness and disrepair, partly from age and neglect and exposure,
partly from where thieving niglets tore the screen and gouged the wood
to break it open before breaking into the house and stealing things (6x
under previous ownership).

The repairs consisted of removing the torn screening and the trim
holding the screens in, sanding the frame, filling in some gouges and
holes with wood filler, painting the door, grate, and hardware, then
putting it back together. It won't ever look new, but it looks much nicer.


wood trim $12
screening 8
paint 3
nails 2
---------------
$25


https://imgur.com/a/6xL3mgF

[FR]

On Mon, 07 Dec 2020 08:47:23 -0800, DFS wrote:

>
> It's an old, wooden door ... The door is in a serious state
> of nastiness and disrepair,
>

Only a total idiot would (attempt to) refurbish a wooden door
in such condition.

After your "repair" a six-year-old kid could easily kick the
thing off the hinges.

Go to Home Depot or equivalant and purchase a steel door (with
wood interior) and associated hardware. Screw the steel frame
into the studs with 4" screws all around and then attach the
hinges and hang the door. Also add a storm door.

Hanging a door is not trivial. One tiny miscalculation in the
hinge holes will leave you with a pile of useless junk -- like
your C code.

[-hh]

On Monday, December 7, 2020 at 10:24:18 AM UTC-5, FR wrote:
> On Mon, 07 Dec 2020 08:47:23 -0800, DFS wrote:
>
> >
> > It's an old, wooden door ... The door is in a serious state
> > of nastiness and disrepair,

Looks good; well done.

> Only a total idiot would (attempt to) refurbish a wooden door
> in such condition.

No, it depends on the need & application. For example, I've personally
built wooden doors (yes, plural) by hand because the openings were a
non-standard size such that there was no Home Depot off-the-shelf
solution to go buy instead.

FYI, in one case I used an existing store-bought door as the starting point,
which required disassembling it to cut down both its width & height, before
creating new joints for reassembly & re-glue, setting of new hinges & hanging.

> Hanging a door is not trivial. One tiny miscalculation in the

> hinge holes will leave you with a pile of useless junk...

LOL! Nah, mistakes like that can be remedied too...


-hh

[FR]

On Mon, 07 Dec 2020 07:42:09 -0800, -hh wrote:

>
> No, it depends on the need & application. For example, I've personally
> built wooden doors (yes, plural) by hand because the openings were a
> non-standard size
>

But you didn't cut the holes for the door handle and the holes
for the dead-bolt lock. Cutting those holes requires great skill
that goes well beyond your capability.

[DFS]

On 12/7/2020 7:23 AM, FR wrote:
> On Mon, 07 Dec 2020 08:47:23 -0800, DFS wrote:
>
>>
>> It's an old, wooden door ... The door is in a serious state
>> of nastiness and disrepair,
>>
>
> Only a total idiot would (attempt to) refurbish a wooden door
> in such condition.
>> After your "repair" a six-year-old kid could easily kick the
> thing off the hinges.

What's with the 'attempt to' and "repair" in quotes idiocy? I did
successfully repair it with new screening and new trim and new paint.

It looks great, and I got to reuse the bottom metal grate.

I used 2 coats of a nice Valspar interior/exterior latex paint on it,
but I notice it chips off (tiny spots) very easily and exposes the white
underneath. I think a hard/glossy paint would've been better.

> Go to Home Depot or equivalant and purchase a steel door (with
> wood interior) and associated hardware. Screw the steel frame
> into the studs with 4" screws all around and then attach the
> hinges and hang the door. Also add a storm door.

Don't be silly. That IS the storm door, screwed into a wood frame with
1" screws. We rarely have bad storms down here, anyway, and that
entrance is inside a screen-enclosed back porch.

It's an old house, but the interior door behind that green door is solid
wood and very heavy.

> Hanging a door is not trivial. One tiny miscalculation in the
> hinge holes will leave you with a pile of useless junk

Yeah, you have to be careful. But you CAN recover from misplaced hinge
holes: use different hinges with a different hole pattern, drill out the
holes and glue round sections of dowel in place, use longer screws, etc

> -- like your C code.

New simple challenge coming up - but I've noticed NOTHING is too simple
for you to make an excuse and run away from.

[DFS]

On 12/7/2020 7:42 AM, -hh wrote:
> On Monday, December 7, 2020 at 10:24:18 AM UTC-5, FR wrote:
>> On Mon, 07 Dec 2020 08:47:23 -0800, DFS wrote:
>>
>>>
>>> It's an old, wooden door ... The door is in a serious state
>>> of nastiness and disrepair,
>
> Looks good; well done.

Thanks.

On the imgur page there's an ellipsis you can click on and download the
images, where you can zoom in to better see the details.

You'll see how rough it was.

I think the door dates back to 1978, and it looks to have been painted
over several times already.

Fixing the original door saved a little money and it goes right back in
place. And the green color with metallic hardware makes a big
improvement to the entire [small] back porch.

[-hh]

On Monday, December 7, 2020 at 11:30:55 AM UTC-5, FR wrote:
> On Mon, 07 Dec 2020 07:42:09 -0800, -hh wrote:
>
> >
> > No, it depends on the need & application. For example, I've personally
> > built wooden doors (yes, plural) by hand because the openings were a
> > non-standard size
> >
> But you didn't cut the holes for the door handle and the holes
> for the dead-bolt lock.

For the doors that I personally built up? No, for they didn't need
deadbolts for their application. But I have cut them on other doors.

> Cutting those holes requires great skill
> that goes well beyond your capability.

LOL! Nope, you just go buy a jig.

Here's one that's $20:

<https://www.homedepot.com/p/RYOBI-Wood-Metal-Door-Lock-Installation-Kit-A99DLK4/205209873>

Mine isn't Ryobi brand, but I can provide a pic of it if you're really,
really desperate to see what one looks like...


-hh

[-hh]

On Monday, December 7, 2020 at 11:34:16 AM UTC-5, DFS wrote:
> ...

> Yeah, you have to be careful. But you CAN recover from misplaced hinge
> holes: use different hinges with a different hole pattern, drill out the
> holes and glue round sections of dowel in place, use longer screws, etc

Likewise, if a hole is in the desired location but is too large (eg, stripped),
jamb some wooden toothpicks in with some wood glue. Dry overnight.


-hh

[DFS]

wtf?

Forget a career as a surgeon...

[-hh]

On Monday, December 7, 2020 at 11:43:52 AM UTC-5, DFS wrote:
> On 12/7/2020 7:42 AM, -hh wrote:
> > On Monday, December 7, 2020 at 10:24:18 AM UTC-5, FR wrote:
> >> On Mon, 07 Dec 2020 08:47:23 -0800, DFS wrote:
> >>
> >>>
> >>> It's an old, wooden door ... The door is in a serious state
> >>> of nastiness and disrepair,
> >
> > Looks good; well done.
>
> Thanks.
>
> On the imgur page there's an ellipsis you can click on and download the
> images, where you can zoom in to better see the details.
>
> You'll see how rough it was.

Its evidently at a high wear location. One of the doors I built is of the
same basic design (two boxes w/grate) that I stained & finished with
however many coats of polyurethane. Its a low wear location (access
door to a utility space that requires ventilation) so I've not had to refinish
it yet. Don't think I dated that piece, so I'm not sure how long ago I did it;
probably pre-1990.

> I think the door dates back to 1978, and it looks to have been painted
> over several times already.

I'd guess older. The lower frame's grate is a style I can't recall seeing
in anything post-1960s...is it stamped or woven? The upper frame's
not clear if it has an aluminum screen frame in it, or if those pieces
are of wood - - latter would also indicate being much older too.

FWIW, my recollections are that the 60s/70s era 'screen doors' were
often bare aluminum without any finish. Unless its clearly a homeowner
DIY, I'd guess 40's/50s.

> Fixing the original door saved a little money and it goes right back in
> place. And the green color with metallic hardware makes a big
> improvement to the entire [small] back porch.

For jobs like this, the time saved can be more important than the money.


-hh

[Steve Carroll]

On 2020-12-07, DFS <nos...@dfs.com> wrote:
> On 12/7/2020 7:23 AM, FR wrote:
>> On Mon, 07 Dec 2020 08:47:23 -0800, DFS wrote:
>>
>>>
>>> It's an old, wooden door ... The door is in a serious state
>>> of nastiness and disrepair,
>>>
>>
>> Only a total idiot would (attempt to) refurbish a wooden door
>> in such condition.
> >> After your "repair" a six-year-old kid could easily kick the
>> thing off the hinges.
>
> What's with the 'attempt to' and "repair" in quotes idiocy? I did
> successfully repair it with new screening and new trim and new paint.
>
> It looks great, and I got to reuse the bottom metal grate.
>
> I used 2 coats of a nice Valspar interior/exterior latex paint on it,
> but I notice it chips off (tiny spots) very easily and exposes the white
> underneath. I think a hard/glossy paint would've been better.

You should use a sealer first. Realistically, when you sanded down
before painting, that would'be been the time to seal it, then paint.

[FR]

On Mon, 07 Dec 2020 11:34:11 -0800, DFS wrote:

>
> But you CAN recover from misplaced hinge
> holes: use different hinges with a different hole pattern, drill out the
> holes and glue round sections of dowel in place, use longer screws, etc
>

That won't work with a steel frame -- and all doors should be attached
to a steel frame that is screwed into the studs. This gives much better
security.

Also, a steel frame allows much better weatherstripping. When it drops
to -15F then good weatherstripping makes a hell of a difference.

Rip out the old doors and put in steel doors.

[dfs]

OK. I didn't take it down to bare wood, but did use a vibrating sander
to rough it up before painting.

[dfs]

On 12/07/2020 12:23 PM, Steve Carroll wrote:

At my home the wood hand-rail to the basement is very smooth and hard
and glossy white. Slippery, actually. Maybe they sanded, sealed and
used glossy paint?

[chrisv]

FR wrote:

> some dumb fsck wrote:
>>
>> But you CAN recover from misplaced hinge
>> holes: use different hinges with a different hole pattern, drill out the
>> holes and glue round sections of dowel in place, use longer screws, etc
>
>That won't work with a steel frame -- and all doors should be attached
>to a steel frame that is screwed into the studs. This gives much better
>security.

I wish that I would have spec'ed a steel door frame, when my house was
built. The amount of wood preventing kicking the bolt right through
is pathetic. I have reinforced it with a StrikeMaster II Pro...

https://www.asafehome.net/PAGES/Safe-Homes-International-StrikeMaster-II-Pro.html

I also have very high-quality locks. Medico M3.

--
"I find it funny how people mention the number of Covid-19 cases as
evidence that we're all somehow doomed. - "Slimer", lying
shamelessly

[FR]

On Mon, 07 Dec 2020 13:02:16 -0600, chrisv wrote:

>
> I wish that I would have spec'ed a steel door frame, when my house was
> built. The amount of wood preventing kicking the bolt right through
> is pathetic.
>

Homes are not built for security.

Where I reside, one of the most affluent "burbs" suffered a rash
of break ins. How did these petty crooks invade these million
dollar homes? They spent a few seconds kicking down the doors.
Amazing!

It is also a god idea to retrofit all storm doors with metal
dead bolts.

[-hh]

On Monday, December 7, 2020 at 2:02:19 PM UTC-5, chrisv wrote:
> ...

> I wish that I would have spec'ed a steel door frame, when my house was
> built. The amount of wood preventing kicking the bolt right through
> is pathetic.

One thing that can be done is to employ very long screws, so that one
goes through the door frame and into the studs. Just be aware to not
overtighten, unless you're going to make sure that the gap between
frame & studs is being bridged with shims.

> I have reinforced it with a StrikeMaster II Pro...
>
> https://www.asafehome.net/PAGES/Safe-Homes-International-StrikeMaster-II-Pro.html

An interesting product..and it too could employ extra-long screws to go back
into the studs. In any event, there's still usually plenty of other "weak link"
locations to potentially breach, such as a window, etc.

Plus with the advent of good performance cordless tools, one could also just
bring a Sawzall to cut one's way in. Indeed, if the home has an outside 100VAC
outlet conveniently nearby, it doesn't even need be a cordless.


-hh

[chrisv]

-hh wrote:

> chrisv wrote:
>>
>> I have reinforced it with a StrikeMaster II Pro...
>>
>> https://www.asafehome.net/PAGES/Safe-Homes-International-StrikeMaster-II-Pro.html
>
>An interesting product..and it too could employ extra-long screws to go back
>into the studs.

It does use long screws, about ten of them. But there's a window
right beside the door - not a super-strong structure to screw to. I
think it's reasonably strong, now. Certainly, a lot better than what
it was.

>In any event, there's still usually plenty of other "weak link"
>locations to potentially breach, such as a window, etc.
>
>Plus with the advent of good performance cordless tools, one could also just
>bring a Sawzall to cut one's way in. Indeed, if the home has an outside 100VAC
>outlet conveniently nearby, it doesn't even need be a cordless.

True, but I think the vast majority of them just try kicking. Also,
with cheap locks, "bumping" is easy, and leaves no trace of forced
entry. Thus, my expensive locks, which can't be easily defeated.

--
"[Leftists] aim to complete eradicate the white race because they know
that it's much easier to control the darker ones." - "Slimer", lying
shamelessly

[FR]

On Mon, 07 Dec 2020 12:53:36 -0800, -hh wrote:

>
> there's still usually plenty of other "weak link"
> locations to potentially breach, such as a window
>

The best solution is to install bars over the windows
or even bars on the inside.

However, a domineering spouse or significant other may
not approve due to the bars imparting an unattractive,
prison-like appearance to the home.

But what kind of man allows himself to be dominated by
a woman?

A true man is the head of his household. If he wants
window bars then window bars it shall be.

Remember the "Pater familias:"

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pater_familias

[-hh]

On Monday, December 7, 2020 at 4:12:05 PM UTC-5, chrisv wrote:
> -hh wrote:
> > chrisv wrote:
> >>
> >> I have reinforced it with a StrikeMaster II Pro...
> >>
> >> https://www.asafehome.net/PAGES/Safe-Homes-International-StrikeMaster-II-Pro.html
> >
> >An interesting product..and it too could employ extra-long screws to go back
> >into the studs.
>
> It does use long screws, about ten of them. But there's a window

> right beside the door - not a super-strong structure to screw to. ...

I can see that if its one of those transoms with sidelights. As much as
its nice to have some light at the entranceway, I always saw those side
windows as being just one smashed window easy break-in.

> >In any event, there's still usually plenty of other "weak link"
> >locations to potentially breach, such as a window, etc.
> >
> >Plus with the advent of good performance cordless tools, one could also just
> >bring a Sawzall to cut one's way in. Indeed, if the home has an outside 100VAC
> >outlet conveniently nearby, it doesn't even need be a cordless.
>
> True, but I think the vast majority of them just try kicking.

Agreed; its fast & requires no tools. Some years ago I had a project where
we researched how the UL actually developed their 'security door' standards.
Turns out that they went through prison records (I think California?) to find
who was incarcerated for break-ins and looked at their height/weight/etc
to figure out how strong they probably were. They then matched this up with
some non-criminal volunteers (IIRC, mostly off-duty police/prison guards)
and had them kick onto a calibrated door to see how much force they could
generate. Set the requirement from that human performance data.

> Also, with cheap locks, "bumping" is easy, and leaves no trace of forced
> entry. Thus, my expensive locks, which can't be easily defeated.

Yeah, I was looking at that comment on the Medico locks too; did a little
searching. While I like that they're more secure from being defeated, that
they also employ key control to limit duplication is IMO a mixed bag; I've
had to work with such "access control" keys before and IMO they're more
of a hassle than they're usually worth - - good for some applications, but
AFAIC, probably not for "home".

BTW, just came across this info on CoVid vaccine development background;
to be read:

<https://news.yahoo.com/years-research-laid-groundwork-speedy-155432779.html>

-hh

[chrisv]

-hh wrote:

> chrisv wrote:
>>
>> It does use long screws, about ten of them. But there's a window
>> right beside the door - not a super-strong structure to screw to. ...
>
>I can see that if its one of those transoms with sidelights. As much as
>its nice to have some light at the entranceway, I always saw those side
>windows as being just one smashed window easy break-in.

It's tempered (tough) glass, and only 11" wide, so not an appealing
entry point. What worried me was someone breaking the glass and then
simply reaching-in to open the deadbolt from the inside. So, I paid
extra for "double barrel" locks, where the inside knob is also a key
and is removable. I'll remove it if I'm going to be gone for an
extended duration.

Note that I'm not sure if this arrangement is even legal, in some
areas, due to the risk of being locked inside, in case of fire.

>> Also, with cheap locks, "bumping" is easy, and leaves no trace of forced
>> entry. Thus, my expensive locks, which can't be easily defeated.
>
>Yeah, I was looking at that comment on the Medico locks too; did a little
>searching. While I like that they're more secure from being defeated, that
>they also employ key control to limit duplication is IMO a mixed bag; I've
>had to work with such "access control" keys before and IMO they're more
>of a hassle than they're usually worth - - good for some applications, but
>AFAIC, probably not for "home".

I have no problems with that. I bought from a local security firm
that has a respected, decades-old presence in the community. I bought
a couple extra keys (of course, they could make more), and we haven't
lost any of them yet. 8) It's a real advantage, IMO.

--
"Other than pure hatred and intolerance, Democrats have no platform."

[chrisv]

FR wrote:

> -hh wrote:
>>
>> there's still usually plenty of other "weak link"
>> locations to potentially breach, such as a window
>
>The best solution is to install bars over the windows
>or even bars on the inside.

Ha! No doubt, and I've traveled to places where that is the norm.
Also, gated, guarded entry to neighborhoods, with walls and electric
fences. I'm talking about "normal" neighborhoods, not just the
wealthy ones. (Although I'm sure the really poor areas don't have
this.)

It's made me wonder, is it really that bad, here? It must be...

--
"Nevertheless, [chrisv is] the biggest liar here after Snit." -
"Slimer", lying shamelessly

[F Russell]

On Mon, 07 Dec 2020 17:20:14 -0600, chrisv wrote:

>
> Ha! No doubt, and I've traveled to places where that is the norm.
> Also, gated, guarded entry to neighborhoods, with walls and electric
> fences.
>

Lots of people with the bucks will opt for burglar alarms.

What they don't seem to realize (more money than brains) is
that the effectiveness of an alarm system depends entirely
on the willingness of the local police to respond -- and
most police departments won't respond in a timely fashion.

They are getting robbed TWICE, once by the burglars and
once by the alarm companies.


--

Systemd free. D.E. free.

Always and forever.

[chrisv]

-hh wrote:

>BTW, just came across this info on CoVid vaccine development background;
>to be read:
>
><https://news.yahoo.com/years-research-laid-groundwork-speedy-155432779.html>

Amazing technology. I hope it works.

--
"If the advocates had their way, they'd indeed force the world to
install GNU/Linux at gunpoint." - "Slimer", lying shamelessly

[-hh]

On Monday, December 7, 2020 at 6:08:34 PM UTC-5, chrisv wrote:
> -hh wrote:
> > chrisv wrote:
> >>
> >> It does use long screws, about ten of them. But there's a window
> >> right beside the door - not a super-strong structure to screw to. ...
> >
> >I can see that if its one of those transoms with sidelights. As much as
> >its nice to have some light at the entranceway, I always saw those side
> >windows as being just one smashed window easy break-in.
>
> It's tempered (tough) glass, and only 11" wide, so not an appealing
> entry point. What worried me was someone breaking the glass and then
> simply reaching-in to open the deadbolt from the inside. So, I paid
> extra for "double barrel" locks, where the inside knob is also a key
> and is removable. I'll remove it if I'm going to be gone for an
> extended duration.

We have one of these on a glass-paned French Door; solution is to leave
the keyed deadbolt unlocked when we're in the home, so as to not invoke
the "denied egress" fire safety risk.

> Note that I'm not sure if this arrangement is even legal, in some
> areas, due to the risk of being locked inside, in case of fire.

The bars on windows that Feeb was ranting about typically isn't legal.

There are some provisions for allowing barred windows in high rise buildings
where there's means to open them. These are largely found in old buildings
which (still) lack Air Conditioning, so the point of allowing bars is to prevent
children from accidentally falling out a window.

-hh

[chrisv]

F Russell wrote:

> chrisv wrote:
>>
>> Ha! No doubt, and I've traveled to places where that is the norm.
>> Also, gated, guarded entry to neighborhoods, with walls and electric
>> fences.
>
>Lots of people with the bucks will opt for burglar alarms.
>
>What they don't seem to realize (more money than brains) is
>that the effectiveness of an alarm system depends entirely
>on the willingness of the local police to respond -- and
>most police departments won't respond in a timely fashion.

I used to do that, years ago. I think that the real reason for alarm
systems (and, I suppose, most security measures) is to induce
criminals to choose an easier target.

Surveillance systems are are another option. I've given them some
thought, but can't figure out how to mount the cameras where they
could view the criminal's face, but be out of their reach.

--
"I love how chrisv was trying to insinuate that being able to rotate
an image was a useless feature." - "Slimer", lying shamelessly

[-hh]

On Tuesday, December 8, 2020 at 11:20:57 AM UTC-5, chrisv wrote:
>
> >What they don't seem to realize (more money than brains) is
> >that the effectiveness of an alarm system depends entirely
> >on the willingness of the local police to respond -- and
> >most police departments won't respond in a timely fashion.
> I used to do that, years ago. I think that the real reason for alarm
> systems (and, I suppose, most security measures) is to induce
> criminals to choose an easier target.

Which is why some people simply buy the (fake) signs.

> Surveillance systems are are another option. I've given them some
> thought, but can't figure out how to mount the cameras where they
> could view the criminal's face, but be out of their reach.

One option is to mount it inside (behind window) and disable the
IR LEDs because they'll reflect off the glass, so install an auxiliary
IR light outside in the designated viewing area.

But even so, even if a camera is within reach, it still can provide
the "next house is an easier target" like to alarm system signs.

Plus there also can be a "security by obscurity" - a camera that's
technically within reach that isn't noticed. I've learned that one of
my cameras is this way - people don't pick it out, apparently because
its mounted in a "cluttered" area.

FYI, for exterior-mount cameras, mount an IR LED auxiliary light too,
because most camera's night ratings have been overly optimistic
and they're cheap.

Case in point, I think these are the same models I have; under $20 each:

<https://www.amazon.com/Infrared-Illuminator-Power-Vision-Camera/dp/B01D73XM24/>

<https://www.amazon.com/Infrared-Illuminator-Degree-Waterproof-Security/dp/B07CP66631/>

Look for one with a day/night sensor for auto on/off. FYI, even
though it says "no power adaptor included", mine have come with them,
so I have a couple of spares now.

Most of the time/effort to install a camera will be to provide it with power,
so adding a second device at a location (IR light to compliment camera)
isn't that much more of an effort. Personally, I would have liked to have
gone with a PoE hardwired Ethernet camera, but those get expensive,
so I just bought the Wyze cam & added a water-resistant case & mounted
them under the eaves...figure the budget per camera to have been:

$20 Wzye Cam
$10 micro-SD card
$10 exterior use case
$20 LED IR light
-----
$60 ... plus power.

For power provisioning, this Cam runs on USB; the light has its own
(non-USB plug) AC adapter wall wart. I have 110VA GFCI power in my
attic, so I just extended that existing circuit to convenient locations.

-hh

[RonB]

On 2020-12-07, DFS <nos...@dfs.com> wrote:

> A while back I bought a small, older house and am now doing some
> renovations, one of which is the back "storm door".
>
> It's an old, wooden door with two sections of screen, plus a metal grate
> (to keep feral cats out) at the bottom. The door is in a serious state
> of nastiness and disrepair, partly from age and neglect and exposure,
> partly from where thieving niglets tore the screen and gouged the wood
> to break it open before breaking into the house and stealing things (6x
> under previous ownership).
>
> The repairs consisted of removing the torn screening and the trim
> holding the screens in, sanding the frame, filling in some gouges and
> holes with wood filler, painting the door, grate, and hardware, then
> putting it back together. It won't ever look new, but it looks much nicer.
>
>
> wood trim $12
> screening 8
> paint 3
> nails 2
> ---------------
> $25
>
>
> https://imgur.com/a/6xL3mgF

Good work — though, I'm guessing, many more Linux users are capable of this
sort of thing than Windows users. My 87 year-old dad has made "making do" an
art form. I'm amazed at his innovation.

--
"I consider it completely unimportant who in the party
will vote, or how; but what is extraordinarily important
is this — who will count the votes, and how." —Stalin

[RonB]

On 2020-12-07, FR <f...@random.info> wrote:
> On Mon, 07 Dec 2020 08:47:23 -0800, DFS wrote:
>
>>

>> It's an old, wooden door ... The door is in a serious state
>> of nastiness and disrepair,
>>
>

> Only a total idiot would (attempt to) refurbish a wooden door
> in such condition.

What is your major malfunction, numbnuts? Just because you don't like
(hate?) DFS doesn't mean you have to attack EVERYTHING he posts here.

I like it when people "make do" and re-use. That's partly why I like
reviving old computers (and Linux is great for this).

> After your "repair" a six-year-old kid could easily kick the
> thing off the hinges.
>

> Go to Home Depot or equivalant and purchase a steel door (with
> wood interior) and associated hardware. Screw the steel frame
> into the studs with 4" screws all around and then attach the
> hinges and hang the door. Also add a storm door.
>

> Hanging a door is not trivial. One tiny miscalculation in the

> hinge holes will leave you with a pile of useless junk -- like
> your C code.

[RonB]

On 2020-12-07, FR <f...@random.info> wrote:

> On Mon, 07 Dec 2020 07:42:09 -0800, -hh wrote:
>
>>
>> No, it depends on the need & application. For example, I've personally
>> built wooden doors (yes, plural) by hand because the openings were a
>> non-standard size
>>
>
> But you didn't cut the holes for the door handle and the holes
> for the dead-bolt lock. Cutting those holes requires great skill
> that goes well beyond your capability.

Did you miss the part about "non-standard size?" -hh and I argue about a lot
of things (to the point where he's in my killfile) but the one thing I do
like about him is that he understands re-using old stuff and "making do." I
admire that.

And what is supposedly hard about cutting holes for a deadbolt lock?

There's also the satisfaction of doing the job yourself.

[DFS]

On 12/8/2020 2:15 PM, RonB wrote:
> On 2020-12-07, DFS <nos...@dfs.com> wrote:
>> A while back I bought a small, older house and am now doing some
>> renovations, one of which is the back "storm door".
>>
>> It's an old, wooden door with two sections of screen, plus a metal grate
>> (to keep feral cats out) at the bottom. The door is in a serious state
>> of nastiness and disrepair, partly from age and neglect and exposure,
>> partly from where thieving niglets tore the screen and gouged the wood
>> to break it open before breaking into the house and stealing things (6x
>> under previous ownership).
>>
>> The repairs consisted of removing the torn screening and the trim
>> holding the screens in, sanding the frame, filling in some gouges and
>> holes with wood filler, painting the door, grate, and hardware, then
>> putting it back together. It won't ever look new, but it looks much nicer.
>>
>>
>> wood trim $12
>> screening 8
>> paint 3
>> nails 2
>> ---------------
>> $25
>>
>>
>> https://imgur.com/a/6xL3mgF
>
> Good work —

Thanks. It was more work than I would've liked, but in the end I saved
a little cash. Main reason I redid the door is so I could keep the
bottom metal grate, which I like. And it was easy to put back in place
- fits perfectly.

> though, I'm guessing, many more Linux users are capable of this
> sort of thing than Windows users.

Bring it on! I've posted a few home project stories here, but no Linux
users have.

I'm looking forward to the day when John Godhe contracts with me to
demolish his shack.

> My 87 year-old dad has made "making do" an
> art form. I'm amazed at his innovation.

Yeah, the "older" generations always have something to teach us.

[pothead]

Where I live, reclaimed lumber is a huge, lucrative market. So things like
old screen doors, wood from barns and even outhouses (people use them as planters),
fetch obscene amounts of money.


--
pothead
Tommy Chong For President 2024
All about snit read below. Links courtesy of Ron:
https://web.archive.org/web/20181028000459/http://www.cosmicpenguin.com/snit.html
https://web.archive.org/web/20190529043314/http://cosmicpenguin.com/snitlist.html
https://web.archive.org/web/20190529062255/http://cosmicpenguin.com/snitLieMethods.html

[DFS]

On 12/8/2020 2:19 PM, RonB wrote:
> On 2020-12-07, FR <f...@random.info> wrote:
>> On Mon, 07 Dec 2020 08:47:23 -0800, DFS wrote:
>>
>>>
>>> It's an old, wooden door ... The door is in a serious state
>>> of nastiness and disrepair,
>>>
>>
>> Only a total idiot would (attempt to) refurbish a wooden door
>> in such condition.
>
> What is your major malfunction, numbnuts? Just because you don't like
> (hate?) DFS doesn't mean you have to attack EVERYTHING he posts here.

It's not just me; he attacks everyone, usually for no reason at all.

Since I have a most excellent Usenet relational db and MS Access search
system, I can point-click a few times and produce some of his
unwarranted attacks against you, for example:

-----------------------------------------------------------------------

"For you, a mask would cover up your ugly, stupid face and that alone
would do the world a lot of good."

"Shaddup, you fucking maleducated retard.
...
You should be arrested and shot through the head."

"Speak for your pathetic, stupid self, dimbulb."

"What's this? An attempted technical critique from a technically
incompetent idiot? You couldn't tell a kernel from your asshole from a
hole in the ground."

"You are so fucking incompetent that you'll be using Mint, or another
variant of "Linux for Idiots," until your dying day."

[many many more like that]

-----------------------------------------------------------------------

The explanation is simple: Feeb is lonely and womanless and angry.
Plus, at nearly 40 years old, he's stuck living with Mom because he
doesn't make much money. Plus he looks like Jabba the Hutt.

Probably he should be pitied.

[DFS]

On 12/7/2020 6:47 PM, shitv wrote:


> "If the advocates had their way, they'd indeed force the world to
> install GNU/Linux at gunpoint." - "Slimer", lying shamelessly

Feb 2009: "... the desktop OS market is in an unhealthy state and
requires governments intervention, for the good of all."

Sep 2010: "...we want a fair and equitable society that tries to ensure
choice, competition, and fair-play, even if it requires government
intervention."

May 2018: "Like low market-share in computer operating systems, poverty
and ignorance in a social group can be self-sustaining. Sometimes,
intervention in a market (such as college admission) is needed, even
if there are also some adverse effects."

- shitv, shamelessly calling for governments to force retailers and OEMs
to make Linux systems available

[DFS]

On 12/9/2020 6:04 AM, pothead wrote:

> Where I live, reclaimed lumber is a huge, lucrative market. So things like
> old screen doors, wood from barns and even outhouses (people use them as planters),
> fetch obscene amounts of money.

I imagine it's because the look of reclaimed wood reminds you of
something in your past, your childhood home, etc.

Ben on Home Town does good stuff with old and new wood.

https://www.hgtv.com/shows/home-town

[-hh]

On Wednesday, December 9, 2020 at 11:47:37 AM UTC-5, DFS wrote:
> On 12/9/2020 6:04 AM, pothead wrote:
>
> > Where I live, reclaimed lumber is a huge, lucrative market. So things like
> > old screen doors, wood from barns and even outhouses (people use them as planters),
> > fetch obscene amounts of money.
>
> I imagine it's because the look of reclaimed wood reminds you of
> something in your past, your childhood home, etc.

Typically, its "old growth" that has narrow growth bands (tighter grain)
and similarly, may offer very wide boards. One could want to use it from
a nostalgic perspective, or you may need to "match existing"

For example, consider this historic structure:
<https://www.cabinsusa.com/images/area-info/historic-cades-cove-cabin.jpg>

Note that this doorway's height is being spanned in just four (4) planks. If you needed
to replace one of those boards (er, logs), where would you find the material? To give
you an idea of size, this doorway probably doesn't measure up to the modern code of
6'8", but its probably still at least 6ft, so they're averaging a mere 18" wide each.

Thus, there's a business to provide this specialty material. Not just from reclaiming
legacy structures, but also finding logs which were lost 100 years ago which have
been preserved underwater:

<https://www.motherearthnews.com/nature-and-environment/underwater-logging-zmaz98onzraw>
<https://www.seattletimes.com/seattle-news/lawmakers-float-plan-for-underwater-logging/>


-hh

[FR]

On Wed, 09 Dec 2020 11:22:30 -0800, -hh wrote:

> On Wednesday, December 9, 2020 at 11:47:37 AM UTC-5, DFS wrote:
>> On 12/9/2020 6:04 AM, pothead wrote:
>>
>> > Where I live, reclaimed lumber is a huge, lucrative market. So things like
>> > old screen doors, wood from barns and even outhouses (people use them as planters),
>> > fetch obscene amounts of money.
>>
>> I imagine it's because the look of reclaimed wood reminds you of
>> something in your past, your childhood home, etc.
>
> Typically, its "old growth" that has narrow growth bands (tighter grain)
> and similarly, may offer very wide boards. One could want to use it from
> a nostalgic perspective, or you may need to "match existing"
>

Nope. All wrong. (Why is that not surprising?)

The reason is because people are IDIOTS. Why do you think Microshit/Apple
is/are so successful?

Any reasonable person would opt for PLASTIC LUMBER. Wood rots. Even treated
wood only delays the inevitable detioration.

Plastic lumber, however, will last FOREVER. It will NEVER deteriorate.

My philosophy is simple: build stuff that will last FOREVER -- and I do.

I am an engineer in the ROMAN sense. The ancient Roman roads and bridges
are still viable today. The Romans built stuff that will last forever.

I use plastic lumber.

[-hh]

On Wednesday, December 9, 2020 at 2:32:25 PM UTC-5, FR wrote:
> On Wed, 09 Dec 2020 11:22:30 -0800, -hh wrote:
>
> > On Wednesday, December 9, 2020 at 11:47:37 AM UTC-5, DFS wrote:
> >> On 12/9/2020 6:04 AM, pothead wrote:
> >>
> >> > Where I live, reclaimed lumber is a huge, lucrative market. So things like
> >> > old screen doors, wood from barns and even outhouses (people use them as planters),
> >> > fetch obscene amounts of money.
> >>
> >> I imagine it's because the look of reclaimed wood reminds you of
> >> something in your past, your childhood home, etc.
> >
> > Typically, its "old growth" that has narrow growth bands (tighter grain)
> > and similarly, may offer very wide boards. One could want to use it from
> > a nostalgic perspective, or you may need to "match existing"
>
> Nope. All wrong. (Why is that not surprising?)
>
> The reason is because people are IDIOTS. Why do you think Microshit/Apple
> is/are so successful?
>
> Any reasonable person would opt for PLASTIC LUMBER. Wood rots. Even treated
> wood only delays the inevitable detioration.

Nope, still depends on application. For example, I've worked on LEED "Gold" rated
historic buildings and in order to retain that certification, you're not allowed to use
plastic ("fake wood").

> Plastic lumber, however, will last FOREVER. It will NEVER deteriorate.

Only if you install it in a cave. Otherwise, there's UV breakdown. And while its
advantageous in that it doesn't deteriorate like wood, its also a lot worse in a fire
(hotter burning & more toxic fumes), is more restrictive on surface coat treatments,
isn't as structural, and has higher thermal expansion/contraction rates that need
to be considered when installing. The reason decking boards usually come in just
lighter colors is because the material absorbs more solar load, so a deck surface
made of it will be substantially hotter on bare feet (etc) in the summer.

> My philosophy is simple: build stuff that will last FOREVER -- and I do.
>
> I am an engineer in the ROMAN sense. The ancient Roman roads and bridges
> are still viable today. The Romans built stuff that will last forever.
>
> I use plastic lumber.

Feeb probably doesn't even know the key reasons why modern concrete
structures don't last as long as the Roman-built concrete structures.


-hh

[Nobody you know]

Prior to COVID there was a huge housing boom downtown by the harbor.
Downtown apartments and condos by the waterfront were always expensive
but the newest luxury condos were selling for several millions of
dollars.

What was selling for even more money were the old industrial lofts that
were built in the early 1900’s. They had a realtor on the news one
night who said something like:

“For several millions of dollars you can build a beautiful condo with
all the latest amenities. But what you can never build for any amount
of money is a 1920s loft.”

[RonB]

On 2020-12-09, DFS <nos...@dfs.com> wrote:

Yeah, I know. I was just trying to appeal to his reason, but that appears to
be a dead-end street. I've got some of his nyms killfiled. But he seems to
keep coming up with new ones.

[pothead]

I believe it.
A friend of mine recently sold a NY Brownstone clone, not in NY but in a shitty
neighborhood in PA and since it hadn't been updated since like 1940 he thought
he was screwed but he ended up making a killing on it by selling all of the
custom plaster work bordering the ceilings and these round plaster castings
surrounding the light sockets on the ceilings where the chandeliers would
be mounted. There are names for all this shit but I can't remember them.

He made 10's of thousands of dollars on that alone.
I couldn't believe it.
He had hipsters fighting over this stuff !

So he let the hipsters buy all of this stuff including 2 marble surrounded
fireplaces circa 1920 and then he took the money and gutted the place,
put in a brand new kitchen and bath and sold it to the local buyers.

I still can't believe it but it happened.

Personally I would rather have a commercial quality kitchen than some
plaster castings on the walls.

[F Russell]

On Wed, 09 Dec 2020 11:44:23 -0800, -hh wrote:

>
> Feeb probably doesn't even know the key reasons why modern concrete
> structures don't last as long as the Roman-built concrete structures.
>

Ha, ho! Let's check your competence.

The ancient Roman aqueducts are usually regaled as being supreme
engineering achievements.

Actually, they are severely inefficient and reflect a poor
understanding of physics.

Explain.

Ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha! Watch him now desperately consult
his Internet "cheat sheet."

[anonlinuxuser]

My conclusions is that he is a Demonrat troll.

[anonlinuxuser]

I believe they are called Corbels and Medallions. Not in my time frame
tho. There maybe other names as well.

[-hh]

On Wednesday, December 9, 2020 at 6:30:26 PM UTC-5, F Russell wrote:
> On Wed, 09 Dec 2020 11:44:23 -0800, -hh wrote:
>
> >
> > Feeb probably doesn't even know the key reasons why modern concrete
> > structures don't last as long as the Roman-built concrete structures.
>
> Ha, ho! Let's check your competence.
>
> The ancient Roman aqueducts are usually regaled as being supreme
> engineering achievements.
>
> Actually, they are severely inefficient and reflect a poor
> understanding of physics.

Where “inefficient” means what? That it was overbuilt?
That contributes to why so much of it is still standing, 2000 years
later...but it’s not the only, or even key, reason.

> Explain.

Why you’re dodging the fact that modern concrete structures typically
haven’t lasted as long as Roman ones have as I asked you to explain:

it’s because you’re a fake who doesn’t know nearly as much as you try to imply.


-hh

[F Russell]

On Wed, 09 Dec 2020 19:32:39 -0800, -hh wrote:

>
> Why you’re dodging the fact that modern concrete structures typically
> haven’t lasted as long as Roman ones have as I asked you to explain:
>
> it’s because you’re a fake who doesn’t know nearly as much as you try to imply.
>

You didn't ask.

But every schoolboy knows about Roman concrete. They used pozzolanic
(i.e. volcanic) ash, containing silicon, which supposedly accounts
for the comparative longevity of their concrete. I shall not expound
on the chemical mechanisms that are involved.

So now it's your turn. Let's hear about why ancient Roman aqueducts
are a total farce in spite of their universal historical acclaim.

Let's hear.

We're waiting...

We're waiting...

It's not polite to keep people waiting...

Ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha!

[-hh]

On Thursday, December 10, 2020 at 8:18:05 AM UTC-5, F Russell wrote:
> On Wed, 09 Dec 2020 19:32:39 -0800, -hh wrote:
>
> >
> > Why you’re dodging the fact that modern concrete structures typically
> > haven’t lasted as long as Roman ones have as I asked you to explain:
> >
> > it’s because you’re a fake who doesn’t know nearly as much as you try to imply.
> >
> You didn't ask.

No, that's a damn weak dodge considering that you've already tried to answer once,
which is what you've snipped out of the above. Case in point:


hh>>> Feeb probably doesn't even know the key reasons why modern concrete
hh>>> structures don't last as long as the Roman-built concrete structures.
>>
feeb>> Ha, ho! Let's check your competence.
feeb>>
feeb>> The ancient Roman aqueducts are usually regaled as being supreme
feeb>> engineering achievements.
feeb>>
feeb>> Actually, they are severely inefficient and reflect a poor
feeb>> understanding of physics.
>
hh> Where “inefficient” means what? That it was overbuilt?
hh> That contributes to why so much of it is still standing, 2000 years
hh> later...but it’s not the only, or even key, reason.

> But every schoolboy knows about Roman concrete. They used pozzolanic
> (i.e. volcanic) ash, containing silicon, which supposedly accounts
> for the comparative longevity of their concrete. I shall not expound
> on the chemical mechanisms that are involved.

That's not the key part that differentiates ancient concrete structures from
modern.

> So now it's your turn. Let's hear about why ancient Roman aqueducts
> are a total farce in spite of their universal historical acclaim.

Except I didn't say that they're a 'total farce': I said that you "... doesn't even know
the key reasons why modern concrete structures don't last as long..."

And by mentioning silicon, Feeb's off base because it is still commonly used as an
additive in modern concrete formulations, so it doesn't represent a _difference_.

> Let's hear.
> We're waiting...

Admit you don't know.

> It's not polite to keep people waiting...

I'll give the rest of the audience a clue, as someone else is more likely than Feeb
to know: its not something that's in ancient Roman concrete structures that has
contributed to why they typically last longer than modern ... it is something that's
*not* in the ancient Romans that *is* present in the modern that comparatively
reduces the modern's useful lifespan.


-hh

[F Russell]

On Thu, 10 Dec 2020 05:41:38 -0800, -hh wrote:

> feeb>>
> feeb>> Actually, they are severely inefficient and reflect a poor
> feeb>> understanding of physics.
>>
> hh> Where “inefficient” means what? That it was overbuilt?
> hh> That contributes to why so much of it is still standing, 2000 years
> hh> later...but it’s not the only, or even key, reason.
>
>

Whew! Now that's a dodge! Ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha!

The Romans wanted to transport water across long valleys
ans so they built these enormous "bridges" at great expense
and labor. But it was all totally unnecessary.

The Romans did not know Euler's equation:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Euler_equations_(fluid_dynamics)

If they did then they would have built a simple SIPHON, i.e.
a cheap pipeline to carry water down into the valley and
then up and out the other side. The pipeline could have
been made from folded sheets of lead (which they used to line
their aqueducts).

Yes, a simple SIPHON would have saved the Romans big bucks
and huge amounts of labor.

The Italians just don't have that true engineering instinct
which leads us to believe that YOU are undoubtedly Italian
in ancestry.

Ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha!

[dfs]

On 12/10/2020 08:56 AM, F Russell wrote:

> The Italians just don't have that true engineering instinct

Italian engineering vs Feeb "engineering"

https://imgur.com/a/ltz7kb6

[Steve Carroll]

LOL!

[dfs]

LMAO!

That's a pic he provided. Looks like the PCB work was done in the
throes of heroin withdrawal.

[F Russell]

On Thu, 10 Dec 2020 12:12:13 -0500, dfs wrote:

>
> Looks like the PCB work was done in the
> throes of heroin withdrawal.
>

Read it and choke, sub-idiot:

http://ftp.unpad.ac.id/orari/orari-diklat/teknik/qrp/Ugly%20Construction.htm

"Whatever variant of Ugly Construction you use, it is sure to be a winner!"

It's a very nice web site as well. He does in a few HUNDRED bytes what
Carroll couldn't do with a GIGABYTE of javashit chunks.

[F Russell]

On Thu, 10 Dec 2020 12:12:13 -0500, dfs wrote:

>

> Looks like the PCB work was done in the
> throes of heroin withdrawal.
>

Read and choke again, sub-imbecile:

http://www.worldofindie.co.uk/?p=900

[-hh]

Feeb also completely dodged my riddle with his diversion attempt.

FYI, the one-word answer is “rebar”.

-hh

[RonB]

On 2020-12-10, dfs <nos...@dfs.com> wrote:

I owned a 350cc Harley Davidson Sprint, a 100cc Harley Davidson Baja (famous
for dessert racing) and a 125cc Harley Davidson Rapido. These were all
rebranded Aermacchi motorcycles. The 250 version won the World Racing
Championship three years in a row 1974, 1975 and 1976. The 350cc Sprint (the
one I owned) won in its class in 1976.

The Baja won 8 out of the ten top spots in the Baja 1000 in 1971.

I think — just maybe — Italian engineers might know a little about what
they're doing. And this is just one (fairly unknown) Italian company.

[F Russell]

On Thu, 10 Dec 2020 19:59:13 +0000, RonB wrote:

>
> The Baja won 8 out of the ten top spots in the Baja 1000 in 1971.
>
> I think — just maybe — Italian engineers might know a little about what
> they're doing. And this is just one (fairly unknown) Italian company.
>

The Italians did not invent the internal combustion engine.
A German engineer, Nicolaus Otto, did that.

Refining is NOT the same as inventing.

Sub-idiot.

[DFS]

On 12/9/2020 11:32 AM, FR wrote:

> The reason is because people are IDIOTS. Why do you think Microshit/Apple
> is/are so successful?

The reason Linux is unsuccessful on the desktop is people have a keen
sense of smell.

> My philosophy is simple: build stuff that will last FOREVER -- and I do.

Cool. What did you build that will last forever?

> I am an engineer in the ROMAN sense.

Roman engineers would have a BIG laugh at:

https://imgur.com/a/hbsspyl

> The ancient Roman roads and bridges
> are still viable today. The Romans built stuff that will last forever.

Your creations will make one laugh forever. See above.



> I use plastic lumber.

Your brain, however, is nothing but saw dust.

[DFS]

On 12/10/2020 12:12 PM, F Russell wrote:
> On Thu, 10 Dec 2020 19:59:13 +0000, RonB wrote:
>
>>
>> The Baja won 8 out of the ten top spots in the Baja 1000 in 1971.
>>
>> I think — just maybe — Italian engineers might know a little about what
>> they're doing. And this is just one (fairly unknown) Italian company.
>>
>
> The Italians did not invent the internal combustion engine.
> A German engineer, Nicolaus Otto, did that.
>
> Refining is NOT the same as inventing.
>
> Sub-idiot.

Hey asshole, RonB didn't claim the Italians invented the ic engine, or
the motorcycle.

[Peter Köhlmann]

Am 10.12.20 um 21:12 schrieb F Russell:

> On Thu, 10 Dec 2020 19:59:13 +0000, RonB wrote:
>
>>
>> The Baja won 8 out of the ten top spots in the Baja 1000 in 1971.
>>
>> I think — just maybe — Italian engineers might know a little about what
>> they're doing. And this is just one (fairly unknown) Italian company.
>>
>
> The Italians did not invent the internal combustion engine.
> A German engineer, Nicolaus Otto, did that.
>
> Refining is NOT the same as inventing.
>
> Sub-idiot.

That you are way too stupid to see that nobody talked about the italians
"inventing" internal combustion motors is obvious.

But they did build some of the finest motorcycles known to mankind, like
Ducati, MV Agusta, Moto Guzzi, Laverda or Benelli

And they build several of the finest cars, like Ferrari, Maserati and
Lamborghini


Naturally you are way too ignorant to know these brands, and you have
never driven or owned any of those.

[Peter Köhlmann]

Am 11.12.20 um 01:15 schrieb DFS:

> On 12/9/2020 11:32 AM, FR wrote:
>
>> The reason is because people are IDIOTS.  Why do you think
>> Microshit/Apple
>> is/are so successful?
>
> The reason Linux is unsuccessful on the desktop is people have a keen
> sense of smell.
>
>
>> My philosophy is simple: build stuff that will last FOREVER -- and I do.
>
> Cool.  What did you build that will last forever?
>

The most durable bullshit known this side of andromeda. Will outlast
andromeda smashing into the milkyway

[F Russell]

On Thu, 10 Dec 2020 11:26:16 -0800, -hh wrote:

>
> FYI, the one-word answer is “rebar”.
>

FYI, this is nothing more than pure chicanery.

This issue here is the properties of MATERIALS,
with the material in question being concrete.

The properties of any material, such as steel
or concrete, depend upon its chemical composition
and its consequent atomic/molecular structure.

We can create different types of steel or concrete
by composing them in different ways. But the
resulting MATERIAL is still the same, i.e. it is
either steel or concrete.

However, when we consider REINFORCED CONCRETE, i.e.
concrete plus the addition of reinforcing bars, we
are now considering an entirely DIFFERENT MATERIAL.
Reinforced concrete is a composite material and
is NOT the same as concrete.

Thus, you are attempting to equate apples and oranges.
You are indulging in pure chicanery.

[DFS]

On 12/10/2020 12:12 PM, F Russell wrote:

> On Thu, 10 Dec 2020 19:59:13 +0000, RonB wrote:
>
>>
>> The Baja won 8 out of the ten top spots in the Baja 1000 in 1971.
>>
>> I think — just maybe — Italian engineers might know a little about what
>> they're doing. And this is just one (fairly unknown) Italian company.
>>
>
> The Italians did not invent the internal combustion engine.

> A German engineer, Nicolaus Otto, did that.

> Refining is NOT the same as inventing.
>
> Sub-idiot.

François Isaac de Rivaz invented the ic engine.

Otto refined it.

Lamer.

[F Russell]

On Thu, 10 Dec 2020 17:09:55 -0800, DFS wrote:

>
> François Isaac de Rivaz invented the ic engine.
>

The French are not Italian.

Sub-retard.

[DFS]

On 12/10/2020 11:59 AM, RonB wrote:
> On 2020-12-10, dfs <nos...@dfs.com> wrote:
>> On 12/10/2020 08:56 AM, F Russell wrote:
>>
>>> The Italians just don't have that true engineering instinct
>>
>>
>> Italian engineering vs Feeb "engineering"
>>
>> https://imgur.com/a/ltz7kb6
>
> I owned a 350cc Harley Davidson Sprint, a 100cc Harley Davidson Baja (famous
> for dessert racing) and a 125cc Harley Davidson Rapido. These were all
> rebranded Aermacchi motorcycles. The 250 version won the World Racing
> Championship three years in a row 1974, 1975 and 1976. The 350cc Sprint (the
> one I owned) won in its class in 1976.

Interesting. Harley-Davidson and Italy seems an odd couple.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aermacchi#1960s_and_beyond

I never heard of Aermacchi (my Dad owned Triumphs, Hondas and Bultaco
motorcycles, and bought me and my brother Yamaha YZ dirt bikes).

> The Baja won 8 out of the ten top spots in the Baja 1000 in 1971.
>
> I think — just maybe — Italian engineers might know a little about what
> they're doing. And this is just one (fairly unknown) Italian company.

Among Italian motorcycles, I had only ever heard of Ducati and Moto
Guzzi, but there are/were many:

"In the years following World War II, Italy spawned no less than 220 new
motorcycle manufacturers."

Currently
https://www.webbikeworld.com/motorcycle-brands/italian-motorcycle-brands/

[-hh]

On Thursday, December 10, 2020 at 5:02:15 PM UTC-5, F Russell wrote:
> On Thu, 10 Dec 2020 11:26:16 -0800, -hh wrote:
>
> >
> > FYI, the one-word answer is “rebar”.
> >
> FYI, this is nothing more than pure chicanery.
>
> This issue here is the properties of MATERIALS,
> with the material in question being concrete.

Nope, because you were set up from the start, as I didn’t say
“materials” but “structures”:

“ Feeb probably doesn't even know the key reasons why modern concrete
structures don't last as long as the Roman-built concrete structures.”

While steel reinforcement does allow for a large reduction in the amount
of concrete required (you were almost on the right track when you said
‘inefficient’), it comes at the price of increased chemical self-incompatibility
which increases maintenance and reduces the lifespan of the structure.

< https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reinforced_concrete#Common_failure_modes_of_steel_reinforced_concrete>


-hh

[MGhost]

Perfect!

--
Я гость в отель

[RonB]

On 2020-12-11, DFS <nos...@dfs.com> wrote:
> On 12/10/2020 11:59 AM, RonB wrote:
>> On 2020-12-10, dfs <nos...@dfs.com> wrote:
>>> On 12/10/2020 08:56 AM, F Russell wrote:
>>>
>>>> The Italians just don't have that true engineering instinct
>>>
>>>
>>> Italian engineering vs Feeb "engineering"
>>>
>>> https://imgur.com/a/ltz7kb6
>>
>> I owned a 350cc Harley Davidson Sprint, a 100cc Harley Davidson Baja (famous
>> for dessert racing) and a 125cc Harley Davidson Rapido. These were all
>> rebranded Aermacchi motorcycles. The 250 version won the World Racing
>> Championship three years in a row 1974, 1975 and 1976. The 350cc Sprint (the
>> one I owned) won in its class in 1976.
>
>
> Interesting. Harley-Davidson and Italy seems an odd couple.
>
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aermacchi#1960s_and_beyond
>
> I never heard of Aermacchi (my Dad owned Triumphs, Hondas and Bultaco
> motorcycles, and bought me and my brother Yamaha YZ dirt bikes).

It was Harley Davidson's attempt to get into the small motorcycle market.
They gave up on this, I think, in the early 80s. That Sprint 350 cornered
extremely well and was fast off the line. Later on I owned a Triumph
Bonneville. Very, very nice motorcycle, except the gauges and electronics
were garbage and I had to sand down the rear brake pads regularly or they
would squeak. It seems like English motorcycles and cars always needed
tweaking. (Also owned a Sunbeam Alpine GT Coupe for a while.)

>> The Baja won 8 out of the ten top spots in the Baja 1000 in 1971.
>>
>> I think — just maybe — Italian engineers might know a little about what
>> they're doing. And this is just one (fairly unknown) Italian company.
>
> Among Italian motorcycles, I had only ever heard of Ducati and Moto
> Guzzi, but there are/were many:
>
> "In the years following World War II, Italy spawned no less than 220 new
> motorcycle manufacturers."
>
> Currently
> https://www.webbikeworld.com/motorcycle-brands/italian-motorcycle-brands/

Nice link. Benelis were very nice (powerful) motorcycles. My brother almost
bought one, he ended up with a Triumph Trident instead.

[F Russell]

On Thu, 10 Dec 2020 17:39:43 -0800, -hh wrote:

>
> “ Feeb probably doesn't even know the key reasons why modern concrete
> structures don't last as long as the Roman-built concrete structures.”
>
> While steel reinforcement does allow for a large reduction in the amount
> of concrete required
>

The reason for the reinforcement is to impart a tensile strength
to concrete. Like wood, concrete is very strong in compression
but it is weak in tension.

Modern construction uses concrete for beams and other members
that experience a great deal of tensile stress. Ancient Roman
construction, AFAIK, largely involved concrete in compression.

In fact, there is now used a lot of pre-stressed concrete
which goes way beyond ordinary rebar:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prestressed_concrete

I don't like the idea of using concrete for tension members
but steel is very expensive and concrete is very cheap.

But if I were to build using concrete, I would build with
compression only and my structures would last as long the
Roman structures.

[F Russell]

On Thu, 10 Dec 2020 19:14:05 -0800, DFS wrote:

>
> "In the years following World War II, Italy spawned no less than 220 new
> motorcycle manufacturers."
>

A motorcycle is the stupidest form of personal transportation. They
can't be driven in the rain, snow, or cold (unless one is a masochist)
and they cannot haul much personal cargo.

A car is the best. There is no question. Motorcycles are for limited
joy rides by affluent idiots who want to feel themselves to be special.
(They are like Apple computers.)

Even off road, a so-called dirt bike cannot compete with an ATV for
ruggedness and versatility.

But motorcycles do have interesting physics. Look up "counter steering."

To turn right one must turn left, and vice versa.

[-hh]

On Friday, December 11, 2020 at 6:13:43 AM UTC-5, F Russell wrote:
> On Thu, 10 Dec 2020 17:39:43 -0800, -hh wrote:

> > Nope, because you were set up from the start, as I didn’t say
> > “materials” but “structures”:
> >

> > “Feeb probably doesn't even know the key reasons why modern concrete

> > structures don't last as long as the Roman-built concrete structures.”
> >
> > While steel reinforcement does allow for a large reduction in the amount

> > of concrete required (you were almost on the right track when you said
> > ‘inefficient’), it comes at the price of increased chemical self-incompatibility
> > which increases maintenance and reduces the lifespan of the structure.
> >

> The reason for the reinforcement is to impart a tensile strength
> to concrete.

Oh, I know the _reason_ why it’s done...

…but that doesn’t change the fact that it’s also why those modern
structures don’t have a lifespan of centuries.

It’s a trade-off.

> Like wood, concrete is very strong in compression
> but it is weak in tension.

Wood is strong in compression but weak in tension? Better go
check the facts on that ratio...particularly since wood is used
so commonly as load bearing beams in home construction, etc,
which insures both comprehensive & tensile loads.

> But if I were to build using concrete, I would build with
> compression only and my structures would last as long the
> Roman structures.

So despite you just deriding the Romans as “inefficient” and
Italians lacking “Engineering instinct”...you would copy them!
Oops!

-hh

[dfs]

On 12/10/2020 12:23 PM, F Russell wrote:
> On Thu, 10 Dec 2020 12:12:13 -0500, dfs wrote:
>
>>
>> Looks like the PCB work was done in the
>> throes of heroin withdrawal.
>>
>
> Read it and choke, sub-idiot:
>
> http://ftp.unpad.ac.id/orari/orari-diklat/teknik/qrp/Ugly%20Construction.htm
>
> "Whatever variant of Ugly Construction you use, it is sure to be a winner!"

They're lying. Only ugly dogs are cute.

You should've created your ugly circuit using the Manhattan style, as
shown here:

http://www.worldofindie.co.uk/?p=900

[FR]

On Fri, 11 Dec 2020 04:38:04 -0800, -hh wrote:

>
> Wood is strong in compression but weak in tension? Better go
> check the facts on that ratio...particularly since wood is used
> so commonly as load bearing beams in home construction, etc,
> which insures both comprehensive & tensile loads.
>

You'd better check the facts. Wood is weak in tension. Period.
Case closed.

The fact that is is used as tension members in construction is
due to the SHAPE of the beam. Wood planks of dimensions 12"x2"
are used, and these are similar in shape to a steel I-beam.
This kind of shape allows tension forces to be resisted by
large amounts of material.

The shape is critically important. Paper, for example, is useless
in construction but a thin paper cylinder can actually support a
heavy brick.

[rbowman]

On 12/11/2020 04:22 AM, F Russell wrote:
> Even off road, a so-called dirt bike cannot compete with an ATV for
> ruggedness and versatility.

Unless there are closely spaced trees or boulders...

[dfs]

On 12/11/2020 06:22 AM, F Russell wrote:
> On Thu, 10 Dec 2020 19:14:05 -0800, DFS wrote:
>
>>
>> "In the years following World War II, Italy spawned no less than 220 new
>> motorcycle manufacturers."
>>
>
> A motorcycle is the stupidest form of personal transportation. They
> can't be driven in the rain, snow, or cold (unless one is a masochist)
> and they cannot haul much personal cargo.
>
> A car is the best. There is no question.

An SUV is the best, and a medium-size SUV is the best of the best.

> Motorcycles are for limited
> joy rides by affluent idiots
> who want to feel themselves to be special.
> (They are like Apple computers.)

Look around, bozo. Not everyone is broke like you.

> Even off road, a so-called dirt bike cannot compete with an ATV for
> ruggedness and versatility.

An ATV cannot compete with a motorcycle for speed, nimbleness, climbing
ability, fun/thrills, safety, or cost. The only reason to ride an ATV
is if you're very old, or you want to pull a trailer and you don't own
an SUV.

> But motorcycles do have interesting physics. Look up "counter steering."
>
> To turn right one must turn left, and vice versa.

Doesn't sound like you've ever ridden a bicycle or motorcycle.

When you make a turn on a two-wheel vehicle, you lean into the direction
of the turn and turn the handlebars very slightly in the same direction.
The faster you're moving the less you lean and turn. If you lean but
point your handlebars straight ahead or turn them in the opposite
direction, you'll soon find yourself on the ground in pain.

Please go outside and prove this to yourself on the street right now.
Lock your handlebars straight ahead and pedal fast into oncoming traffic
and pray for the countersteer God to save you.

If you do countersteer, it's a subconcsious movement at the start of the
turn so brief and so minute you don't notice it (except for cornering
where your rear wheel has broken traction - there you lean slightly or
heavily into the turn but steer with or slightly against the turn).

[DFS]

On 12/9/2020 11:22 AM, -hh wrote:


> For example, consider this historic structure:
> <https://www.cabinsusa.com/images/area-info/historic-cades-cove-cabin.jpg>


Keep watching and John Gohde's head will poke out of the front door...

[FR]

On Fri, 11 Dec 2020 10:48:03 -0800, dfs wrote:

>
> An SUV is the best, and a medium-size SUV is the best of the best.
>

SUVs and pickup trucks are a waste of both materials and petroleum
and also an excessive contributor to air pollution. No sane society
would permit them to be sold. In America, however, the mindless rednecks,
like you, have taken over.

People like you should forced to squeeze their fat, lazy asses into
an ordinary car.

SUVs and pickups are also a great hazard to safety. They will block
the view both in front and to the side. If one is ever unfortunate
to try to make a left turn with redneck asshole in a pickup blocking
the entire field of view one will know the danger.

Any SANE society should outlaw all pickups and SUVs.

You can cry all the way to jail over your precious piece of junk.

>
> Please go outside and prove this to yourself on the street right now.
> Lock your handlebars straight ahead and pedal fast into oncoming traffic
> and pray for the countersteer God to save you.
>

Countersteering doesn't really apply to bicycles. The angular
momentum of the wheels, due both to mass and velocity, is too
small for it to have a significant effect.

But any bicyclist knows how difficult it is to steer away from
a curb when the wheels are rolling directly adjacent to it.
IOW, to steer away one has to steer INTO the curb. Try it yourself,
if you could ever get your fat, redneck ass onto a bicycle.



>
> If you do countersteer,
>

On a motorcycle, with its large angular momentum, it is a necessity.

[DFS]

On 12/10/2020 10:06 PM, RonB wrote:
> On 2020-12-11, DFS <nos...@dfs.com> wrote:


>> I never heard of Aermacchi (my Dad owned Triumphs, Hondas and Bultaco
>> motorcycles, and bought me and my brother Yamaha YZ dirt bikes).
>
> It was Harley Davidson's attempt to get into the small motorcycle market.
> They gave up on this, I think, in the early 80s. That Sprint 350 cornered
> extremely well and was fast off the line. Later on I owned a Triumph
> Bonneville.

I'm almost positive my Dad's Triumph was also a Bonneville. As I recall
his had enduro tires and weighed over 300lbs. Not a good dirt bike but
he had a love for Triumph and BSA motorcycles.

>> Currently
>> https://www.webbikeworld.com/motorcycle-brands/italian-motorcycle-brands/
>
> Nice link. Benelis were very nice (powerful) motorcycles. My brother almost
> bought one, he ended up with a Triumph Trident instead.

"Benelli has been purely designed and manufactured in China since 2005."

[chrisv]

Peter Köhlmann wrote:

>But they did build some of the finest motorcycles known to mankind, like
>Ducati, MV Agusta, Moto Guzzi, Laverda or Benelli

Most of them fell behind pretty rapidly, once the Japanese joined the
fray.

Ducat is still competitive, but they pissed me off when they started
selling air-cooled V-twins with the exhaust out the back of the rear
cylinder. Obviously, it should be out the front, for better cooling,
but, apparently, doing it right became "too expensive" for them.

--
"People love to demonize McCarthy, but he did something which needed
to be done and which should have continued to this day." - "Slimer",
AKA "Rabid Robot", right-wing propagandist

[chrisv]

F Russell wrote:

>A motorcycle is the stupidest form of personal transportation. They
>can't be driven in the rain, snow, or cold (unless one is a masochist)
>and they cannot haul much personal cargo.

You'd better inform the billion or so people who use motorcycles and
scooters as efficient transportation.

>A car is the best. There is no question.

They also cost about ten times as much.

>Motorcycles are for limited joy rides by affluent idiots who want to

...enjoy life.

--
"Personally, all of those Mexicans flooding the border can go ahead
and die and I wouldn't care." - "Slimer", right-wing propgandist

[chrisv]

> some dumb fsck wrote:
>>
>> Please go outside and prove this to yourself on the street right now.
>> Lock your handlebars straight ahead and pedal fast into oncoming traffic
>> and pray for the countersteer God to save you.

Idiot. The handlebars are moved, while countersteering.

--
"DFS is logical and honest" - "Slimer", lying shamelessly

[Nobody you know]

On 2020-12-11 17:33:50 +0000, chrisv said:

> F Russell wrote:
>
>> A motorcycle is the stupidest form of personal transportation. They
>> can't be driven in the rain, snow, or cold (unless one is a masochist)
>> and they cannot haul much personal cargo.
>
> You'd better inform the billion or so people who use motorcycles and
> scooters as efficient transportation.
>
>> A car is the best. There is no question.
>
> They also cost about ten times as much.
>
>> Motorcycles are for limited joy rides by affluent idiots who want to
>
> ...enjoy life.

Excellent post. You hit the bullseye on every point.

[DFS]

On 12/11/2020 9:36 AM, shitv wrote:
>> some dumb fsck wrote:
>>>
>>> Please go outside and prove this to yourself on the street right now.
>>> Lock your handlebars straight ahead and pedal fast into oncoming traffic
>>> and pray for the countersteer God to save you.
>
> Idiot. The handlebars are moved, while countersteering.

You need serious work on your reading comprehension, bozo.

[DFS]

On 12/11/2020 8:57 AM, FR wrote:
> On Fri, 11 Dec 2020 10:48:03 -0800, dfs wrote:
>
>>
>> An SUV is the best, and a medium-size SUV is the best of the best.
>>
>
> SUVs and pickup trucks are a waste of both materials and petroleum
> and also an excessive contributor to air pollution. No sane society
> would permit them to be sold. In America, however, the mindless rednecks,
> like you, have taken over.
>
> People like you should forced to squeeze their fat, lazy asses into
> an ordinary car.
>
> SUVs and pickups are also a great hazard to safety. They will block
> the view both in front and to the side. If one is ever unfortunate
> to try to make a left turn with redneck asshole in a pickup blocking
> the entire field of view one will know the danger.
>
> Any SANE society should outlaw all pickups and SUVs.

What a gd wimp!

Namby-pamby mama's boys like you shouldn't be allowed to drive.

[FR]

On Fri, 11 Dec 2020 12:50:30 -0800, DFS wrote:

>
> What a gd wimp!
>
> Namby-pamby mama's boys like you shouldn't be allowed to drive.
>

No. Arrogant jackasses like you need to yanked out of those SUVs/
pickups and given a good beating by the lawful authorities.

Somehow, being in an SUV/pickup imparts a feeling of omnipotence
and invincibility in these redneck yokels. They believe that
they own the road. I was doing the speed limit on the road this
morning and some asshole behind me in a pickup didn't believe
that he was subject to the same laws. After tailgating me for
a considerable distance he then passed me in a roar.

I could have easily beat the fuck out of that son-of-a-bitch
ass-licker but I am a person that respects the law. The police,
if they had been on patrol, should have yanked him out of his
redneck-mobile and gave him a good smacking. That's what all
these people need -- including YOU.

[FR]

On Fri, 11 Dec 2020 11:33:50 -0600, chrisv wrote:

>
>>Motorcycles are for limited joy rides by affluent idiots who want to
>
> ...enjoy life.
>

Oh, I get it. You want wild thrills.

I'll give you a wild thrill. I'll chain you to an oxcart and then roll
the oxcart down the side of a steep mountain. Now that's a thrill.

You are just a spoiled kid that never grew up.

[chrisv]

FR wrote:

> chrisv wrote:
>>
>>>Motorcycles are for limited joy rides by affluent idiots who want to
>>
>> ...enjoy life.
>
>Oh, I get it. You want wild thrills.
>
>I'll give you a wild thrill. I'll chain you to an oxcart and then roll
>the oxcart down the side of a steep mountain.

How about putting me on a bike, then rolling me down a steep mountain?
That's what riding a motorcycle is like.

> Now that's a thrill.

You need brakes, too. Indeed, a big part of the thrill is having
*control* of your machine.

>You are just a spoiled kid that never grew up.

You're starting to sound like kooky Relf, Fabian. 8)

--
"Face it, Jews are horrible people." - "Slimer"

[Steve Carroll]

On 2020-12-10, dfs <nos...@dfs.com> wrote:

> On 12/10/2020 11:53 AM, Steve Carroll wrote:
>> On 2020-12-10, dfs <nos...@dfs.com> wrote:
>>> On 12/10/2020 08:56 AM, F Russell wrote:
>>>
>>>> The Italians just don't have that true engineering instinct
>>>
>>>
>>> Italian engineering vs Feeb "engineering"
>>>
>>> https://imgur.com/a/ltz7kb6
>>

>> LOL!
>
>
> LMAO!
>
> That's a pic he provided.

That was another reason I laughed (along with your application of it):

<https://imgur.com/a/g6tXAlw>
(look at the date... I put that red circle there, too)

> Looks like the PCB work was done in the
> throes of heroin withdrawal.

Hehe ;)

[F Russell]

On Fri, 11 Dec 2020 14:52:27 -0600, chrisv wrote:

>
> How about putting me on a bike, then rolling me down a steep mountain?
> That's what riding a motorcycle is like.
>

I know ALL about motorcycles, nincompoop.

I purchased a used Jawa (made in Czechoslovakia) machine,
and I literally rode that thing non-stop for 48 fucking
hours. Didn't eat. Didn't sleep. Just rode. It was,
admittedly, quite exhilarating.

But then the clutch broke. I had to push that thing for
nearly 15 miles to return to home base. It took me almost
8 hours, at 3:00 am, in a sweltering summer night, to
bring it back home.

After that, however, the thrill was gone. I got it
out of my system. No longer am I interested in stupid
motorcycles.

Except for the physics. A mature man gets his thrills
from intellectual concerns. The "forks" of any machine
tell an interesting story. How, for example, does the
physics of a shopping cart differ from that of a "lowrider"
motorcycle?

Let's ask the DuFuS, who struts as if he knows everything
but in actuality is a total ignoramus.

Ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha!

[-hh]

On Friday, December 11, 2020 at 9:16:03 AM UTC-5, FR wrote:
> On Fri, 11 Dec 2020 04:38:04 -0800, -hh wrote:
>
> >
> > Wood is strong in compression but weak in tension? Better go
> > check the facts on that ratio...particularly since wood is used
> > so commonly as load bearing beams in home construction, etc,
> > which insures both comprehensive & tensile loads.
> >
> You'd better check the facts. Wood is weak in tension. Period.
> Case closed.

“ Wood is 30% stronger in compression than in tension.”
< http://www.arch.mcgill.ca/prof/friedman/arch240/winter1998/lecture3/lecture3.html>

That’s less imbalance than what you’re complaining about for concrete.
Case in point:



< https://www.engineeringtoolbox.com/compression-tension-strength-d_1352.html>

Portland Cement (1yr): 6200psi C vs 400psi T … a ratio of 15:1

> The fact that is is used as tension members in construction is
> due to the SHAPE of the beam.

Which is symmetrical, which illustrates that the σ‘s are of the same
basic magnitude. If they weren’t, the design would be asymmetric to
compensate, since the textbook simple beam’s load has equal tensile
& compressive stresses.

> Wood planks of dimensions 12"x2" are used, ...

Not necessarily: depending on the design load & span, the minimum
requirements allow down to 2x6’s.

> ...and these are similar in shape to a steel I-beam.

Your 2x12 isn’t and I beam shape. You’re thinking of TJI engineered
lumber, which is a pair of 2x4s for flanges with plywood for the web:

<https://www.fp-supply.com/st-louis-trusjoist-tji-i-joists.html>

> This kind of shape allows tension forces to be resisted by
> large amounts of material.

It’s too bad that EE’s aren’t all required to take classes in mechanics.
Not even Statics. Would’ve save the Navy a couple of mil and a few
years schedule on their Railgun program a few years ago if they had,
as well as a lot of Feeb’s embarrassments.

-hh

[F Russell]

On Fri, 11 Dec 2020 20:57:41 +0000, Steve Carroll wrote:

>
> That was another reason I laughed (along with your application of it):
>

My, my. You are so easily amused. (Pfffffffffffft!)

You remind me of the little school children who, when some
unfortunate schoolgirl accidentally urinates in her pants
(or dress) will never let it die. They will scrawl images
of the event with crayon and pencil and pass it around while
laughing like giddy idiots.

Be proud of your severely regressed psyche. After all,
you have nothing else of which to be proud.

Ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha!

By the way, there is a nursing home in the vicinity whose
residents are experiencing insomnia. Why don't you
offer to play some of your "jazz fusion" for those folks.
That'll be guaranteed to put them to sleep.

Ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha!

Now that's a REAL knee slapper!

Ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha!

[F Russell]

On Fri, 11 Dec 2020 16:12:07 -0800, -hh wrote:

>
> It’s too bad that EE’s aren’t all required to take classes in mechanics.
>

It took you (predictably) a L-O-O-O-O-N-G time to respond.

That means you had to scrounge up a bunch of cheap "experts"
to attempt to refute my unassailable claims (which have long
been ensconced in engineering practice).

You FAIL. I WIN.

There is NO other way.

> Not even Statics. Would’ve save the Navy a couple of mil and a few
> years schedule on their Railgun program a few years ago if they had,
> as well as a lot of Feeb’s embarrassments.
>
> -hh

[-hh]

On Friday, December 11, 2020 at 7:22:43 PM UTC-5, F Russell wrote:
> On Fri, 11 Dec 2020 16:12:07 -0800, -hh wrote:
>
> >
> > It’s too bad that EE’s aren’t all required to take classes in mechanics.
>
> It took you (predictably) a L-O-O-O-O-N-G time to respond.

No, I was in a different State this morning. Feel free to check the
IP addresses on the respective posts...

...that is, if that can be done with your Linux! /s

-hh

[rbowman]

On 12/11/2020 10:27 AM, chrisv wrote:
> Peter Köhlmann wrote:
>
>> But they did build some of the finest motorcycles known to mankind, like
>> Ducati, MV Agusta, Moto Guzzi, Laverda or Benelli
>
> Most of them fell behind pretty rapidly, once the Japanese joined the
> fray.
>
> Ducat is still competitive, but they pissed me off when they started
> selling air-cooled V-twins with the exhaust out the back of the rear
> cylinder. Obviously, it should be out the front, for better cooling,
> but, apparently, doing it right became "too expensive" for them.
>

Desmodromic valve trains have a lot of panache, little practicality.

[dfs]

On 12/10/2020 05:00 PM, Peter Köhlmann wrote:
> Am 11.12.20 um 01:15 schrieb DFS:
>> On 12/9/2020 11:32 AM, FR wrote:
>>
>>> The reason is because people are IDIOTS.  Why do you think
>>> Microshit/Apple
>>> is/are so successful?
>>
>> The reason Linux is unsuccessful on the desktop is people have a keen
>> sense of smell.
>>
>>
>>> My philosophy is simple: build stuff that will last FOREVER -- and I do.
>>
>> Cool.  What did you build that will last forever?
>>
>
> The most durable bullshit known this side of andromeda. Will outlast
> andromeda smashing into the milkyway


ha!

That's a long time away.

It's hard to conceive of living for 2 billion years, even though our own
human lifespan of 80 years feels like it passes in a flash.

[dfs]

On 12/11/2020 02:56 PM, FR wrote:
> On Fri, 11 Dec 2020 12:50:30 -0800, DFS wrote:
>
>>
>> What a gd wimp!
>>
>> Namby-pamby mama's boys like you shouldn't be allowed to drive.
>>
>
> No.

Yes. Slowpoke, small-sedan drivers like you block the road and think
you can dictate what and how others should drive. Surrender your
license and take public transportation with the class of idiots you
belong to.

> Arrogant jackasses like you need to yanked out of those SUVs/
> pickups and given a good beating by the lawful authorities.
> Somehow, being in an SUV/pickup imparts a feeling of omnipotence
> and invincibility in these redneck yokels. They believe that
> they own the road. I was doing the speed limit on the road this
> morning and some asshole behind me in a pickup didn't believe
> that he was subject to the same laws.

You know what George Carlin said:

Everyone driving slower than you is a moron.
Everyone driving faster than you is a maniac.

ha!

> After tailgating me for
> a considerable distance he then passed me in a roar.

Why didn't you get out of the way? Maybe he had an emergency.

Hope he honked and flipped you off. You were driving like a nearsighted
Grandma on a two-lane road. Pull over and get out of the way and let
the normal drivers pass, then resume your dawdling.

Don't you northerners know 'Slow traffic keep right'?

I drive like a bat out of hell. If I'm driving I'm speeding. I
generally do 10mph to 15mph above the posted limit on non-highways, and
15mph to 20mph above the limit on highways. Even then there's usually
someone trying to go faster.

I get a ticket every few years, but how I haven't lost my license is a
mystery.

The speed limits are set low - for safety supposedly. Transportation
officials often claim to set some limits to the max speed at which 85%
of vehicles are moving. But I don't buy it. If I get on the highway
and do the speed limit, I get passed by far more than 15% of cars - it's
usually 50% to 75%.

The real danger isn't speed; it's slow drivers in the fast lanes, and
idiots who change lanes with little or no warning. I see both ALL the time.

> I could have easily beat the fuck out of that son-of-a-bitch
> ass-licker but

But your Mom keeps your balls in a jar and tells you when you can and
cannot use them. That's the case with most GuhNoo lusers.

> I am a person that respects the law.

"MY web sites are loaded with EXPLICITLY ILLEGAL material"

Don't you get sick to death of lying out of both sides of your mouth?

> The police,
> if they had been on patrol, should have yanked him out of his
> redneck-mobile and gave him a good smacking. That's what all
> these people need -- including YOU.

Idiot.

3 of the top 5 sellers in MI and GA are pickups.

https://www.edmunds.com/most-popular-cars/

[dfs]

On 12/11/2020 07:00 PM, F Russell wrote:
> On Fri, 11 Dec 2020 14:52:27 -0600, chrisv wrote:
>
>>
>> How about putting me on a bike, then rolling me down a steep mountain?
>> That's what riding a motorcycle is like.
>>
>
> I know ALL about motorcycles, nincompoop.
>
> I purchased a used Jawa (made in Czechoslovakia) machine,
> and I literally rode that thing non-stop for 48 fucking
> hours. Didn't eat. Didn't sleep. Just rode. It was,
> admittedly, quite exhilarating.
>
> But then the clutch broke. I had to push that thing for
> nearly 15 miles to return to home base. It took me almost
> 8 hours, at 3:00 am, in a sweltering summer night, to
> bring it back home.

What a fucked-up event.

Being a zombified, drugged-up idiot who rides and pushes for 56 straight
hours doesn't make you knowledgeable about motorcycles, numbnut. But
you should've gleaned some insight into the drugs that kept you awake
that long.

Next time you try for a psychotic break like that, do it in a
sensory-deprivation chamber.

> After that, however, the thrill was gone. I got it
> out of my system. No longer am I interested in stupid
> motorcycles.
>
> Except for the physics. A mature man gets his thrills
> from intellectual concerns.

Those can be exhilarating, but the biggest thrill in life is/was hitting
to within 10 feet from 200 yards out in the fairway. It's a full 3-iron
swing for me. Young pros can do it with 6-irons. John Daly used to hit
his 5-iron 250 yards.

> The "forks" of any machine
> tell an interesting story. How, for example, does the
> physics of a shopping cart differ from that of a "lowrider"
> motorcycle?

The physics are wildly different:

* with the shopping cart, Mom is pushing and you're sitting in front
facing her with your little legs sticking out. High center of gravity.

* with the lowrider, you're behind Mom, arms wrapped tightly around her
waist, holding on for dear life and screaming bloody murder for her to
"slow down!". Low center of gravity.

> Let's ask the DuFuS, who struts as if he knows everything
> but in actuality is a total ignoramus.

You literally posted: "I know EVERYTHING!"

Did you know your kitchen is on fire right now?

> Ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha!

heh!

[Steve Carroll]

On 2020-12-12, F Russell <f...@random.info> wrote:
> On Fri, 11 Dec 2020 14:52:27 -0600, chrisv wrote:
>
>>
>> How about putting me on a bike, then rolling me down a steep mountain?
>> That's what riding a motorcycle is like.
>>
>
> I know ALL about motorcycles, nincompoop.
>
> I purchased a used Jawa (made in Czechoslovakia) machine,
> and I literally rode that thing non-stop for 48 fucking
> hours. Didn't eat. Didn't sleep. Just rode. It was,
> admittedly, quite exhilarating.

LOL! Providing you did that, (which is almost guaranteed to be BS)
that's not exhilaration, that's exhaustion... delirium.

> But then the clutch broke.

You have to yank that handle when you switch gears, fool.

[F Russell]

On Sat, 12 Dec 2020 09:23:21 -0500, dfs wrote:

>
> The physics are wildly different:
>

> * with the shopping cart, High center of gravity.
>
> * with the lowrider, Low center of gravity.
>

Nope. It's got nothing to do with the COG.

It depends entirely on the FORK TRAIL, which is
how far behind the perpendicular axis through the
contact patch of the wheel is to the intersection
of the fork axis with the ground.

Here is an image ("T" is the fork trail):

https://i.postimg.cc/zDjcPD0L/fork-trail.png

A large fork trail gives high stability because
any turn of the forks will induce a large restoring
force.

Bicycles are one of the most complex machines
ever invented by humans.

[F Russell]

On Sat, 12 Dec 2020 15:08:01 +0000, Steve Carroll wrote:

>
> Providing you did that, (which is almost guaranteed to be BS)
>

True. I lied.

It wasn't non-stop. I stopped a few times to take a piss.

Ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha!

[F Russell]

On Fri, 11 Dec 2020 14:52:27 -0600, chrisv wrote:

>

> How about putting me on a bike, then rolling me down a steep mountain?
> That's what riding a motorcycle is like.
>

For the ultimate motorbiking thrill, you need to ride the
famous Yungas Road in Peru:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yungas_Road

I strongly suggest you go there. That'll get it out
of your system once and for all.

Hee, hee, hee, heee!