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SAVE LINUX!VOTE AGAINST THE PENGUIN!

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Madman

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Jul 15, 1996, 3:00:00 AM7/15/96
to

Psychodad wrote:
>
> The proposed Penguin Logo is horrible,making it an official Linux logo,
> will be a HUGE mistake,pleasae come to http://ballot.box.com/linux/
> and vote against the Penguin,vote for Linux1-matt-ericson.gif,it still
> has a good chance to win!
>
> V.R.
I couldn't agrre more!!!!! we should have a REAL LOGO for this REAL OS!!!
several of the LOGO's are VERY GOOD, except they include the version, which
I think should be left alone. ( Since Linux changes too often )

Not that I mind it... but if we REALLY ever want the "outside" world to
take Linux as a "for real" OS... we need to use a better logo than a "bird".
80% of the others are MUCH better and if the version part was leftout I'd
bet many of them would take over as #1.

I personally voted for a REAL Picture... and NO it wasn't the one noted
above. I think we should ALL really think about what we could be doing to
Linux. I TRUELY hope that Linux catches on as a REAL OS that companies use
and will develop FOR! And, as far as I'm concerned, this picking od a "bird"
as the LOGO might hinder it! COME ON and let's think about what we really
want from this...

REMEBER:

When M$S$ called the OS that was coming out in late 94 as win95... then with
all the delays they said that the name had NOTHING to do with the release date??

YEA you remeber... Let's make this a PROFESSIONAL decission!!!
PICK a REAL LOGO, and lets make "THIS" a real statement to the NET that this
is a REAL OS and needs to be taken seriously!!

Ok removing myself from thje soapbox and I'll trry to refrain from drinking
for the next two or three minutes.. but please THINK about the message we are
sending to the PUBLIC. WE are a good and wish not to be taken as a JOKE.
(AKA a cartoon!)

John
--
John Wagner jgwa...@erols.com
I don't know what I'm doing... so don't hold it against anyone.
What I say is mine, unless you want to pay for it.

Psychodad

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Jul 16, 1996, 3:00:00 AM7/16/96
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Camille-Aimé Possamaï

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Jul 16, 1996, 3:00:00 AM7/16/96
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Hi Linux People,

Go to http://ballot.box.com/linux/ where you'll find a lot of proposed
logos for Linux. Most of them could have been designed for, say,
Microsoft; this does not mean that they are ugly just that they are
somewhat dull and, perhaps, commercially-attractive since one cannot
see how one can really dislike them.

A few of them are different. The company mentionned above would certainly
not choose one these latter ones.

What about Linux addicts?

Well! go there and make your choice.
--
===============================================================================
( Camille-Aim'e Possama"i \ T'el'ephone )
( Centre National de la Recherche Scientifique \ (+33) 91 16 43 27 )
( Centre de Recherches en Neurosciences Cognitives \ )
( 31, chemin Joseph-Aiguier \ T'el'ecopie )
( F13402 Marseille cedex 20 - France \ (+33) 91 77 49 69 )
===============================================================================

Louis J. LaBash Jr.

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Jul 16, 1996, 3:00:00 AM7/16/96
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You've missed a very important point: the boss (Linus) chose the Penguin.

--
Louis-ljl-{LLa...@siue.edu | l...@minuet.siue.edu}


Kazinator

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Jul 16, 1996, 3:00:00 AM7/16/96
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In article <4sfsls$b...@dfw-ixnews10.ix.netcom.com>,
Hugh McCurdy <hmcc...@ix.netcom.com> wrote:

>Some points: What defines a "real" logo? What is an "unreal" logo?
>I'm having "real" trouble with this concept (really...it looks like a
>joke, but I'm not joking...what do you mean?).

A real logo is a piece of graphic design artwork, not a cheesy rendering of
a cartoon mascot, for starters.

A logo has to appear good in all kinds of media: from black and white fax
to billboards.

That's not to say that you can't have a cute cartoon character as a mascot.

Take McDonald's for example. Their logo is the ``golden arches'' (blech :).
Though they have used all kinds of loony characters in their advertizing.
That penguin is no more a logo than that big purple McDonald's bird with `dem
pilot ace goggles.

>How is picking a "cartoon" not a professional decision? I refer to
>Snoopy & Met Life. While the Met Life decision may have been good or
>bad...I doubt that many professional advertisers would call their
>advertising "unprofessional."
>
>I question if the Logo decision has much bearing on the success of
>Linux at all.

I think it does.

How about this! (joke)


/* XPM */
/* courtesy of The Kazinator <k...@cafe.net> */
static char * LiNUX_xpm[] = {
"64 64 6 1",
" c #696969696969",
". c #000000000000",
"X c #FFFFFFFF0000",
"o c #FFFFA5A50000",
"O c #FAFA13134040",
"+ c #3B3BFAFA3434",
" .. ",
" .... ",
" ....... ",
" ....X.... ",
" .....XXX.... ",
" .......XXX.... ",
" ..........XXX.... ",
" .....X......XXX.... ",
" .....XXXX......XXX.... ",
" ........XXXXX....XXX.... ",
" ..........XXXXXX....XXX.... ",
" ......oo.....XXXXXXX..XXX.... ",
" ........ooo....XXX.XXXX..XXX.... ",
" ...........o......XXX..XXXXXXX.... ",
" ....................XXX...XXXXXXX.... ",
" .......................XXX....XXXXX.... ",
" ..oo.............oo....XXX......XXXX.... ",
" .ooo...........ooo.....XXX......X...... ",
" . ..ooo...........ooo....XXX.........OO... ",
" . .ooo...........ooo.....XXX........OOO.. ",
" .. ..ooo...........ooo....XX........OOO.... ",
" ... .ooo............oo..............OOO.... ",
" .... ..ooo...........ooo.............OOO..... ",
" .... .ooo............oo....O.......OOO...... ",
" ...... ..ooo................OOOOO....OOO....... ",
" ...... .ooo.....ooo....+...OOOOOOOO.OOO....... ",
" ....... ..ooo..ooooo...+++....OOOOOOOOO......... ",
" ........ .oooooooo.....+++.......OOOOOOOOO...... ",
" ......... ..ooooo........+++.........OOOOOOOOO.... ",
" ......... .ooo..........+++........OOO.OOOOOOOO.. ",
" ........... ...............+++.......OOO....OOOOO... ",
" ........... ...+++.........++.......OOO.......O.... ",
" ........... ...+++.........+++.....OOO........... ",
" ........... ...++..........++.....OOO......... . ",
" ........... ...+++.........+++....OOO....... ... ",
" ........... ...++.........+++...OOO...... ..... ",
" ........... ...+++........+++....OO.... ...... ",
" ........... ...++........+++........ ........ ",
" ........... ...+++......+++....... .......... ",
" ........... ...+++....+++...... ........... ",
" ........... ....++++++++..... ............. ",
" ........... ....++++++.... ............... ",
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" .... ............ ",
" .... ........... ",
" ... ......... ",
" .. ....... ",
" . ...... ",
" . .... ",
" .. ",
" "};

Oh man, Jobs would throw a fit!

Kazinator

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Jul 16, 1996, 3:00:00 AM7/16/96
to

In article <slrn4uo7tg...@smol.fast.net>,
Tony Smolar <asm...@fast.net> wrote:
>I agree with you. Although I like the penguin, I don't think it makes a good
>logo. I really can't see it along side the "SCO ok", "Netware Yes",
>"Windows Compatible" logos. It would kind of make Linux look more like a toy
>IMO. I'm also not thrilled by the logos on ballot.box.com, they're
>either too complex, too simple, or look like something that would be found on
>a cheap CD distribution. A few of them would be good with some work.
>
>Is it too late to enter? I might like to try my hand at it.

I'm trying as well. The awful logos on the aforementioned page, plus the
penguin, have persuaded me to at least try.

I'm using xfig, by the way, even though I'm more than capable of doing
weird constructive solid geometry with povray. Let's save the cheesy
raytracing for the day when there is an actual logo created by conventional
means.

I really suck at this, by the way, but what can we do?

You know, even a realistic-looking penguin carried out with some graphic
design pizazz would be great.

Penguin Books comes to mind. I'm trying to recall what their logo looks like,
but I do believe that it incorporates some sort of penguin.

Berthold H"ollmann

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Jul 16, 1996, 3:00:00 AM7/16/96
to

Psychodad wrote:
>
> The proposed Penguin Logo is horrible,
> will be a HUGE mistake,pleasae come to http://ballot.box.com/linux/
> and vote against the Penguin,vote for Linux1-matt-ericson.gif,it still
> has a good chance to win!
>
> V.R.
The proposed Penguin Logo is beautiful, making it an official Linux logo
would be great. Please forget about the ugly Logos on
http://ballot.box.com/linux/ and vote for the Penguin. (Actually I could not
connect to ballot.box.com, but last time i visited a "vote Linux Logo" site
all logos were ugly for me.) I like the penguin.

Greetings Berthold
--
email: ho...@hamburg.GermanLloyd.de

These opinions might be mine, but never those of my employer.

Kazinator

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Jul 16, 1996, 3:00:00 AM7/16/96
to

In article <4senue$j...@usenet10.interramp.com>,

Psychodad <vl...@net-link.net> wrote:
>The proposed Penguin Logo is horrible,making it an official Linux logo,
>will be a HUGE mistake,pleasae come to http://ballot.box.com/linux/
>and vote against the Penguin,vote for Linux1-matt-ericson.gif,it still
>has a good chance to win!

I agree. There is nothing wrong with having a little
color or pizazz in a logo. But the thing has no style or anything, and is too
complicated.

The problem is that it's not a logo!


It's a _MASCOT_!


There is a huge difference between a _mascot_ and a _logo_.

I say keep the Pengo as a mascot, and get a real logo done by someone who
understands what a logo is, and who has the graphic design skills to put it
into effect.


Hell, even if it was desirable to use a penguin as a logo, a shiny,
plastic-looking 3D cartoon is not the way to go! Perhaps a stylized
silhouette of a penguin, or something tasteful in a few colors.

Not something that looks like some homework from ANIM 101---Introduction to 3D
Studio...


Hugh McCurdy

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Jul 16, 1996, 3:00:00 AM7/16/96
to

Madman <jgwa...@erols.com> wrote:

>Psychodad wrote:
>>
>> The proposed Penguin Logo is horrible,making it an official Linux logo,
>> will be a HUGE mistake,pleasae come to http://ballot.box.com/linux/
>> and vote against the Penguin,vote for Linux1-matt-ericson.gif,it still
>> has a good chance to win!
>>

>> V.R.
>I couldn't agrre more!!!!! we should have a REAL LOGO for this REAL OS!!!
>several of the LOGO's are VERY GOOD, except they include the version, which
>I think should be left alone. ( Since Linux changes too often )

>Not that I mind it... but if we REALLY ever want the "outside" world to
>take Linux as a "for real" OS... we need to use a better logo than a "bird".
>80% of the others are MUCH better and if the version part was leftout I'd
>bet many of them would take over as #1.

>I personally voted for a REAL Picture... and NO it wasn't the one noted
>above. I think we should ALL really think about what we could be doing to
>Linux. I TRUELY hope that Linux catches on as a REAL OS that companies use
>and will develop FOR! And, as far as I'm concerned, this picking od a "bird"
>as the LOGO might hinder it! COME ON and let's think about what we really
>want from this...

>REMEBER:

>When M$S$ called the OS that was coming out in late 94 as win95... then with
>all the delays they said that the name had NOTHING to do with the release date??

>YEA you remeber... Let's make this a PROFESSIONAL decission!!!
>PICK a REAL LOGO, and lets make "THIS" a real statement to the NET that this
>is a REAL OS and needs to be taken seriously!!

>Ok removing myself from thje soapbox and I'll trry to refrain from drinking
>for the next two or three minutes.. but please THINK about the message we are
>sending to the PUBLIC. WE are a good and wish not to be taken as a JOKE.
>(AKA a cartoon!)

I'm sorry, but I just don't understand where using a Penguin as a logo
is going to keep Linux from being taken seriously. Maybe it will, but
I don't see an arguement that soundly supports the premise.

Some points: What defines a "real" logo? What is an "unreal" logo?
I'm having "real" trouble with this concept (really...it looks like a
joke, but I'm not joking...what do you mean?).

How is picking a "cartoon" not a professional decision? I refer to


Snoopy & Met Life. While the Met Life decision may have been good or
bad...I doubt that many professional advertisers would call their
advertising "unprofessional."

I question if the Logo decision has much bearing on the success of
Linux at all.


Hugh McCurdy


Hugh McCurdy

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Jul 16, 1996, 3:00:00 AM7/16/96
to

Kazinator <k...@cafe.net> wrote:

>That's not to say that you can't have a cute cartoon character as a mascot.

Actually, my feeling is that we should have both....one of the Linux
logos and the Penguin (as a symbol or mascot).


>>I question if the Logo decision has much bearing on the success of
>>Linux at all.

>I think it does.

This might go back to the argument about advertising...and we might
have to agree to disagree. While it's nice to have a kick-ass ad,
having a decent advertising campaign is more important than the actual
content of the ad. What works with ads is the repeated message.


Regardless, I don't really care if the Penguin is a logo or not. I
think it's a good "mascot." And now I'll shuddup.

Hugh McCurdy


Erdal Emsiz

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Jul 16, 1996, 3:00:00 AM7/16/96
to

Madman wrote:
>
> Psychodad wrote:
> >
> > The proposed Penguin Logo is horrible,making it an official Linux logo,
> > will be a HUGE mistake,pleasae come to http://ballot.box.com/linux/
> > and vote against the Penguin,vote for Linux1-matt-ericson.gif,it still
> > has a good chance to win!
> >
> > V.R.
> I couldn't agrre more!!!!! we should have a REAL LOGO for this REAL OS!!!
> several of the LOGO's are VERY GOOD, except they include the version, which
> I think should be left alone. ( Since Linux changes too often )
>

Also totaly agree with this. That Penguin Logo is a very stupid logo, specialy
for Linux.

<KNIP>

>
> John
> --
> John Wagner jgwa...@erols.com
> I don't know what I'm doing... so don't hold it against anyone.
> What I say is mine, unless you want to pay for it.


------------------------------------------------------
legal notice: Microsoft Network is prohibited from redistributing this work
in any form, in whole or in part, without a license. License to distribute
this work is available to Microsoft at $499. Transmission without permission
constitutes an agreement to these terms.

brown andrew todd

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Jul 16, 1996, 3:00:00 AM7/16/96
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Mark Hamstra (mark.h...@sullivan.bentley.com) wrote:

> Louis J. LaBash Jr. wrote:
> >
> > You've missed a very important point: the boss (Linus) chose the Penguin.

> This is one of those (few) times when I wish Linus didn't have so much
> control over Linux. In this instance the boss is wrong.

I've been quite surprised by this thread. I like the penguin!
Cute little fella. Now O'Reilly has a good choice of animal for
covers of future Linux titles.

I took a look at the logos at the voting site mentioned by the
person who started this thread, and I didn't find any of them too
exciting. I'm frankly sick of slick raytraced fonts.

Andrew

//----------------------------------------------------------------
// andrew todd brown mailto:andre...@acm.org
// university of illinois http://www.uiuc.edu/ph/www/atbrown1
//----------------------------------------------------------------

Paul Thomas

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Jul 16, 1996, 3:00:00 AM7/16/96
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In article <slrn4unlhb...@lcjones.aclib.siue.edu>,
Louis J. LaBash Jr. <lo...@LCJones.aclib.siue.edu> wrote:

>On Tue, 16 Jul 1996 12:12:39 -0700, Mark Hamstra <mark.h...@sullivan.bentley.com> wrote:
>|Louis J. LaBash Jr. wrote:
>|>
>|> You've missed a very important point: the boss (Linus) chose the Penguin.
>|
>|
>|This is one of those (few) times when I wish Linus didn't have so much
>|control over Linux. In this instance the boss is wrong.
>
>But he's still the *boss*. He has given so much to so many, the title is
>deserved.

Well, IMHO the penguin is much more effective at representing linux than
any of the cheesy ways of writing the word 'linux'---even the mklinux group
have a picture of it on top of one of their machines. I think it captures
the mood perfectly. Linux is different---if you want it to look like any
other run-of-the-mill system then vote for a tedious logo. There is still
a lot of fun to be had from linux.

As for the argument that companies won't port their software to linux or
take it seriously, yes, right! I can just see some company boss saying
'well, we could make some money out of the linux port, but we won't do it
because I don't like their logo.' :-)

Paul.
-
paul....@eng.ox.ac.uk

John Brock

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Jul 16, 1996, 3:00:00 AM7/16/96
to

In article <4senue$j...@usenet10.interramp.com>,

Psychodad <vl...@net-link.net> wrote:
>The proposed Penguin Logo is horrible,making it an official Linux logo,
>will be a HUGE mistake,pleasae come to http://ballot.box.com/linux/
>and vote against the Penguin,vote for Linux1-matt-ericson.gif,it still
>has a good chance to win!

I agree..., that weird tubby penguin is pretty awful! I'm not really
thrilled with *any* of the proposed logos, but IMO the penguin is by
far the worst. This is a serious matter, and I really think more work
needs to be done. In particular I don't understand this "Powered by"
theme. What exactly does that mean anyway? Shouldn't the wording be
"Linux Compatible" or "For Linux" or something like that? And if it is
really necessary to include the version number I think it should be
small and easy to change as time passes.
--
John Brock
jbr...@panix.com

Raymond Nijssen

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Jul 16, 1996, 3:00:00 AM7/16/96
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hmcc...@ix.netcom.com (Hugh McCurdy) writes:

> I'm sorry, but I just don't understand where using a Penguin as a logo
> is going to keep Linux from being taken seriously. Maybe it will, but
> I don't see an arguement that soundly supports the premise.

How about scaring off vendors who are, in principle,
willing to produce versions of their commercial
software for Linux.

Suppose you're waiting for commercial products for
Linux - many people are trying to make a case for this
to their vendor: Vendor: "What is Linux?" User:"It's
a popular free unix system" Vendor: "You're not
waisting my time talking about this stupid penguin
stuff, are you?"

The grotesque immaturity, blatantly displayed by this
bloated piece of poultry will undoubtedly scare off
commercial interest. Who wants his products
associated with a platform that manifests itself as
utterly pre-adolescent?


> I question if the Logo decision has much bearing on the success of
> Linux at all.

It may not directly influence people who are already Linux enthousiasts. But
it will impede further growth.


--
Raymond X.T. Nijssen | Note that C++>C is undefined for any value of C
|
Eindhoven University of Technology, Design Automation (ES) | tel. +31-402473614
EH 7.36, PO. Box 513, 5600 MB Eindhoven, The Netherlands | fax. +31-402464527
^
new extra digit!

Louis J. LaBash Jr.

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Jul 16, 1996, 3:00:00 AM7/16/96
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On Tue, 16 Jul 1996 12:12:39 -0700, Mark Hamstra <mark.h...@sullivan.bentley.com> wrote:
|Louis J. LaBash Jr. wrote:
|>
|> You've missed a very important point: the boss (Linus) chose the Penguin.
|
|
|This is one of those (few) times when I wish Linus didn't have so much
|control over Linux. In this instance the boss is wrong.

But he's still the *boss*. He has given so much to so many, the title is
deserved.

--
Louis-ljl-{LLa...@siue.edu | l...@minuet.siue.edu}


Dale K. Hawkins

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Jul 16, 1996, 3:00:00 AM7/16/96
to

Well, I think that the Penguin is kinda laid back and taking it easy.
It makes me think of something I read somewhere:

"Dolphines aren't smart; all they know how to do is swim around eating
fish and playing!"

I say the Penguin would make an excellent _mascot_, but it is a bit
too complex for a logo.

Just my 00000010.

-Dale

P.S. I think that the heart of the issue is that Linux kicks butt, large
cooperate butts, in fact.

--
To Hack, is to Live! Will Hack for Beer!

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
+ Dale K. Hawkins | Questions or Comments Invited. +
+ dhaw...@Mines.EDU | Criticisms Ignored. +
+ (303)235-2791 | Flames redirected to /dev/null +
+------------------------------------------------------------------------+
+ GCS/E d- s-: a- C++(++++) UL++++A++I+++$S+++$X++ P++++ L+++ E---() +
+ W+++ N++ K++ w--- O! M--(but better then w---) V-- PS+ PE-- Y+ !PGP t +
+ !5 X++ R tv b+++ DI++ D+ G++ e>++>++++(*) h++ r++ y+ +
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Grant Edwards

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Jul 16, 1996, 3:00:00 AM7/16/96
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brown andrew todd (atbr...@students.uiuc.edu) wrote:

: Mark Hamstra (mark.h...@sullivan.bentley.com) wrote:
: > Louis J. LaBash Jr. wrote:
: > >
: > > You've missed a very important point: the boss (Linus) chose the
: > > Penguin.

: > This is one of those (few) times when I wish Linus didn't have so much
: > control over Linux. In this instance the boss is wrong.

: I've been quite surprised by this thread. I like the penguin!
: Cute little fella.

Sure it's a cute penguin, but it's not a logo. A logo is something you can
cast into a slug of lead. Literally. "Logo" is short for "logotype" whish
is a piece of lead type that has been specially cast or cut with the emblem
of a particular organization.

It has to work as well in black and white as in color (no half-tone screens
either!). You can have colors if you want, but it has to work as well in
black and white, and it has to work at all sizes from 16pt to 16m. The
penguin doesn't. The IBM logo (the stripey IBM letters) is a good one. The
Sun logo (the four S's) is a good one. The MS-Windows logo (the flying
window) is a good one. The Pepsi ball, the Nike swoosh, The old Bell System
"bell" logo are all good logos. They all work in black and white, and you
can scale them down to put in the corner of a business card or up to fill a
billboard without loosing the identity of the image.

The penguin will look lousy in black and white. The penguin will look lousy
at 16pt on a 300dpi output device.

: Now O'Reilly has a good choice of animal for covers of future Linux titles.

: I took a look at the logos at the voting site mentioned by the person who


: started this thread, and I didn't find any of them too exciting. I'm
: frankly sick of slick raytraced fonts.

Anything ray-traced will almost definitly make a lousy logo for the reasons
I've explained above: they are _way_ too complex and rely on shading and
high-resolution.

A logo has to be SIMPLE, SIMPLE, SIMPLE!

If you can't draw it with a pencil (you're allowed to look at, but not trace
the original), then toss it out.

--
Grant Edwards | Microsoft isn't the | Yow! America!! I saw it
Rosemount Inc. | answer. Microsoft | all!! Vomiting! Waving!
| is the question, and | JERRY FALWELLING into your
gra...@rosemount.com | the answer is no. | void tube of UHF oblivion!!
| SAFEWAY of the mind --

Mike Frisch

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Jul 16, 1996, 3:00:00 AM7/16/96
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In article <31EB0194...@erols.com>, Madman <jgwa...@erols.com> wrote:
>I couldn't agrre more!!!!! we should have a REAL LOGO for this REAL OS!!!
>several of the LOGO's are VERY GOOD, except they include the version, which

Agreed. The penguin is a little ridiculous... Even the name
"Linux" done in colour and a fancy font would be appropriate. The
penguin isn't...

Mike.

===========================================================================
Mike Frisch (416) 496-2200 Ext. 2272
Software Engineer
Hummingbird Communications Ltd. North York, Ontario, Canada

Disclaimer: I speak for myself, not my employer

Petri Honkamaa

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Jul 16, 1996, 3:00:00 AM7/16/96
to

On 16 Jul 1996 16:53:45 GMT, brown andrew todd <atbr...@students.uiuc.edu> wrote:
>
>I've been quite surprised by this thread. I like the penguin!
>Cute little fella. Now O'Reilly has a good choice of animal for

>covers of future Linux titles.
>
>I took a look at the logos at the voting site mentioned by the
>person who started this thread, and I didn't find any of them too
>exciting. I'm frankly sick of slick raytraced fonts.

Agreed! The penguin is great.

It's just perfect logo/mascot for a nice, friendly and powerfull
OS like Linux. And it's definitely a lot nicer idea than this
window-that-is-shattering-to-pieces-thing MS has been spreading
all aroung the world for a quite some time now...

Uh...and this was of course IMHO... :-)

--
Petri Honkamaa <honk...@zzz.lnet.lut.fi>


Steve Dobson

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Jul 16, 1996, 3:00:00 AM7/16/96
to

Kazinator wrote:
>
> In article <4senue$j...@usenet10.interramp.com>,
> Psychodad <vl...@net-link.net> wrote:
> >The proposed Penguin Logo is horrible,making it an official Linux logo,
> >will be a HUGE mistake,pleasae come to http://ballot.box.com/linux/
> >and vote against the Penguin,vote for Linux1-matt-ericson.gif,it still
> >has a good chance to win!
>
> I agree. There is nothing wrong with having a little
> color or pizazz in a logo. But the thing has no style or anything, and is too
> complicated.
>
> The problem is that it's not a logo!
>
> It's a _MASCOT_!
>
> There is a huge difference between a _mascot_ and a _logo_.
>
> I say keep the Pengo as a mascot, and get a real logo done by someone who
> understands what a logo is, and who has the graphic design skills to put it
> into effect.
>
> Hell, even if it was desirable to use a penguin as a logo, a shiny,
> plastic-looking 3D cartoon is not the way to go! Perhaps a stylized
> silhouette of a penguin, or something tasteful in a few colors.
>
> Not something that looks like some homework from ANIM 101---Introduction to 3D
> Studio...

HERE HERE!!!!
--
############## Steve Dobson
####### # Computing Devices Company Ltd
####### ## # Castleham Road, St. Leonards On Sea, TN38 9NJ, UK.
# ## #
####### ## # Tel: +44-(0)1424-853481 x2433
####### # Fax: +44-(0)1424-851520
############## Email: Steve....@CAE.CompD.COM

Mark Hamstra

unread,
Jul 16, 1996, 3:00:00 AM7/16/96
to

Louis J. LaBash Jr. wrote:
>
> You've missed a very important point: the boss (Linus) chose the Penguin.


This is one of those (few) times when I wish Linus didn't have so much
control over Linux. In this instance the boss is wrong.


Mark

Tony Smolar

unread,
Jul 16, 1996, 3:00:00 AM7/16/96
to

On 16 Jul 1996 17:02:00 -0400, John Brock <jbr...@panix.com> wrote:
>In article <4senue$j...@usenet10.interramp.com>,
>Psychodad <vl...@net-link.net> wrote:
>>The proposed Penguin Logo is horrible,making it an official Linux logo,
>>will be a HUGE mistake,pleasae come to http://ballot.box.com/linux/
>>and vote against the Penguin,vote for Linux1-matt-ericson.gif,it still
>>has a good chance to win!
>
>I agree..., that weird tubby penguin is pretty awful! I'm not really
>thrilled with *any* of the proposed logos, but IMO the penguin is by
>far the worst. This is a serious matter, and I really think more work
>needs to be done. In particular I don't understand this "Powered by"
>theme. What exactly does that mean anyway? Shouldn't the wording be
>"Linux Compatible" or "For Linux" or something like that? And if it is
>really necessary to include the version number I think it should be
>small and easy to change as time passes.

I think the "Powered By" theme is intended for use on say, a WWW server.

I agree with you. Although I like the penguin, I don't think it makes a good
logo. I really can't see it along side the "SCO ok", "Netware Yes",
"Windows Compatible" logos. It would kind of make Linux look more like a toy
IMO. I'm also not thrilled by the logos on ballot.box.com, they're
either too complex, too simple, or look like something that would be found on
a cheap CD distribution. A few of them would be good with some work.

Is it too late to enter? I might like to try my hand at it.

>--
>John Brock
>jbr...@panix.com


--

Tony Smolar

------------------------------------------------------------------------------
asm...@fast.net home email
to...@nscs.fast.net work email
http://www.users.fast.net/~smol homepage


Kazinator

unread,
Jul 17, 1996, 3:00:00 AM7/17/96
to

In article <4shp4l$6...@aphex.direct.ca>, Kazinator <k...@cafe.net> wrote:
>I'm trying stuff out. How about the following. It does play on the 'Linux'
>letters

Here is a cleaned up third draft...

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Kazinator

unread,
Jul 17, 1996, 3:00:00 AM7/17/96
to

In article <bnelsonD...@netcom.com>,
Bob Nelson <bne...@netcom.com> wrote:

>You're taking this much too seriously, IMNSHO. Unless things have
>changed, linux's "success" is not hinged upon any acceptance by the
>commercial world nor should it be concerened about things like
>mindshare or perception.
>
>linux is a hacker's dream come true and and it's FUN! In that sense,
>the penguin succeeds as an emblem embodying that ideal.

The thing is, as a hacker's dream, Linux doesn't really need a logo.
It's to those ``serious'' purposes that a logo is beneficial. Some of us
do use Linux in a professional setting (as well as spare-time hacking).

Edvard Majakari

unread,
Jul 17, 1996, 3:00:00 AM7/17/96
to

>>>>> "AB" == brown andrew todd <atbr...@students.uiuc.edu> writes:

AB> I've been quite surprised by this thread. I like the penguin!
AB> Cute little fella. Now O'Reilly has a good choice of animal
AB> for covers of future Linux titles.

Yup; but wasn't this logo meant for the kernel? So, there could be
another Linux logo concurrently with the Penguin. On the other hand,
Linux isn't but just the kernel... but we could use some other logo to
symbolize the whole 'system', which varies quite a lot,
though. System, which is based on kernels 2.x

--

//Ed http://lodge.ton.tut.fi/~ed/
%
This .signature is false

Dave Cinege

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Jul 17, 1996, 3:00:00 AM7/17/96
to

In <4sh8n1$n...@magma.Mines.EDU>, dhaw...@slate.Mines.EDU (Dale K. Hawkins) writes:
>Just my 00000010.

Don't you mean 00001010

----------------------------------------------------------------------------

Dave 'Kill a Cop' Cinege (aka Psychopath #3) --- Super Genius at Large
http://www.psychosis.com/ Prove me wrong.....VOTE Libertarian!

Harry Browne for President in '96 Libertarian Party 1-800-682-1776
http://www.rahul.net/browne/ http://www.lp.org/


William Edward Webber

unread,
Jul 17, 1996, 3:00:00 AM7/17/96
to

Raymond Nijssen (ray...@krait.es.ele.tue.nl) opined:

: hmcc...@ix.netcom.com (Hugh McCurdy) writes:
:
: > I'm sorry, but I just don't understand where using a Penguin as a logo
: > is going to keep Linux from being taken seriously. Maybe it will, but
: > I don't see an arguement that soundly supports the premise.
:
: The grotesque immaturity, blatantly displayed by this

: bloated piece of poultry will undoubtedly scare off
: commercial interest. Who wants his products
: associated with a platform that manifests itself as
: utterly pre-adolescent?
:
And here I was thinking that the Penguin looked impressively Zen...
--
William Webber Postgrad. Dip. in CS, RMIT, Australia
w...@yallara.cs.rmit.edu.au http://minyos.its.rmit.edu.au/~wew/
Interests: linux, chess, Glenn Gould
"Well, I'll say this for you, the quality of your stupidity is rising"
- Lucy, from Peanuts.

Evan Leibovitch

unread,
Jul 17, 1996, 3:00:00 AM7/17/96
to

In article <4shusb$3...@aphex.direct.ca>, Kazinator <k...@cafe.net> wrote:

>>You're taking this much too seriously, IMNSHO. Unless things have
>>changed, linux's "success" is not hinged upon any acceptance by the
>>commercial world nor should it be concerened about things like
>>mindshare or perception.

>>linux is a hacker's dream come true and and it's FUN! In that sense,
>>the penguin succeeds as an emblem embodying that ideal.

>The thing is, as a hacker's dream, Linux doesn't really need a logo.
>It's to those ``serious'' purposes that a logo is beneficial. Some of us
>do use Linux in a professional setting (as well as spare-time hacking).

Exactly. For those purposes, one can turn to the likes of Caldera and
Red Hat, both of which have reasonably slick logos designed for
commercial acceptance.

For Linux itself, the logo is OK.

Personally, I'd prefer an animal eager to do something (as opposed to
already done it); Linux users are *never* satisfied in the way the
penguin is depicted, they're continually moving formward.

...but that's just a possible variation on the same theme -- an active
drawing of the penguin can be a complement to, not replacement of, the
submitted logo.

My biggest fear is that in the next release of Emacs, RMS is going to
insist that the logo be the penguin riding a gnu.

--
Evan Leibovitch, Sound Software Ltd., located in beautiful Brampton, Ontario
Caldera Business Partner / SCO Authorized VAR / ev...@telly.org / (905) 452-0504
I love standards because they give non-conformists something not to conform to

Anselm Lingnau

unread,
Jul 17, 1996, 3:00:00 AM7/17/96
to

In article <4senue$j...@usenet10.interramp.com>,
Psychodad <vl...@net-link.net> wrote:

> and vote against the Penguin,vote for Linux1-matt-ericson.gif,it still
> has a good chance to win!

Since when has anything about Linux been up for a vote? You don't get
to vote about kernel features, either.

Anselm
--
Anselm Lingnau ......................... lin...@tm.informatik.uni-frankfurt.de
VMS is great. We run VMS on all of our workstations. The great thing about it
is that no one else in the department ever wants to use them. --- Ryan Reed

Ari Koivisto

unread,
Jul 17, 1996, 3:00:00 AM7/17/96
to

In article <4sgd9s$h...@dfw-ixnews10.ix.netcom.com>, Hugh McCurdy wrote:
>Kazinator <k...@cafe.net> wrote:
>
>
>
>>That's not to say that you can't have a cute cartoon character as a mascot.
>
>Actually, my feeling is that we should have both....one of the Linux
>logos and the Penguin (as a symbol or mascot).

Yes, I think so too. The Penguin makes a great mascot, but a logo is also
needed.

I think all should go and have a look at
http://www.solluna.org/~higgins/linux.html

That logo looks great. It's simple and would look nice at a corner of
a press release. There's also couple of versions with the penguin.
Well, just go and see and make up your own mind.

And yes, the logo is up at the voting site too (linuxlogos1.jpg)

Regards,
Ari


Michael Bruce

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Jul 17, 1996, 3:00:00 AM7/17/96
to

Grant Edwards (gra...@reddwarf.rosemount.com) wrote:

: brown andrew todd (atbr...@students.uiuc.edu) wrote:
: : Mark Hamstra (mark.h...@sullivan.bentley.com) wrote:

: : I've been quite surprised by this thread. I like the penguin!
: : Cute little fella.

: Sure it's a cute penguin, but it's not a logo. A logo is something you can
: cast into a slug of lead. Literally. "Logo" is short for "logotype" whish
: is a piece of lead type that has been specially cast or cut with the emblem
: of a particular organization.
: It has to work as well in black and white as in color (no half-tone screens
: either!). You can have colors if you want, but it has to work as well in
: black and white, and it has to work at all sizes from 16pt to 16m. The
: penguin doesn't. The IBM logo (the stripey IBM letters) is a good one. The

: Sun logo (the four S's) is a good one. The MS-Windows logo (the flying


: window) is a good one. The Pepsi ball, the Nike swoosh, The old Bell System
: "bell" logo are all good logos. They all work in black and white, and you
: can scale them down to put in the corner of a business card or up to fill a
: billboard without loosing the identity of the image.
: The penguin will look lousy in black and white. The penguin will look lousy
: at 16pt on a 300dpi output device.

There is a black and white version. It looks good. There is even a
postscript (vector) scaleable version.
Try: http://www.isc.tamu.edu/~lewing/linux/
There is more to the Linux logo than just the color penguin.


--
Michael Bruce | br...@infinet.com | http://www.infinet.com/~bruce
I used to feel unhappy that I didn't have a neat .sig with a big ASCII
graphic for the world to see. Then I read alt.fan.warlord.

Orc

unread,
Jul 17, 1996, 3:00:00 AM7/17/96
to

In article <wppw5wk...@krait.es.ele.tue.nl>,

Raymond Nijssen <ray...@krait.es.ele.tue.nl> wrote:
>hmcc...@ix.netcom.com (Hugh McCurdy) writes:
>
>> I'm sorry, but I just don't understand where using a Penguin as a logo
>> is going to keep Linux from being taken seriously. Maybe it will, but
>> I don't see an arguement that soundly supports the premise.
>
>How about scaring off vendors who are, in principle,
>willing to produce versions of their commercial
>software for Linux.
>
>Suppose you're waiting for commercial products for
>Linux - many people are trying to make a case for this
>to their vendor: Vendor: "What is Linux?" User:"It's
>a popular free unix system" Vendor: "You're not
>waisting my time talking about this stupid penguin
>stuff, are you?"
>
>The grotesque immaturity, blatantly displayed by this
>bloated piece of poultry will undoubtedly scare off
>commercial interest.

Hi. I'm a commercial interest who's developing applications for Linux.
I don't care whether Linux uses a Penguin, a BSD Daemon, or a Flying
window as its logo.

>Who wants his products
>associated with a platform that manifests itself as
>utterly pre-adolescent?

Hint: It's not the logo, it's the carrying on by people who don't have a
sense of perspective.


____
david parsons \bi/ http://www.pell.chi.il.us/~orc/
\/

Kazinator

unread,
Jul 17, 1996, 3:00:00 AM7/17/96
to

In article <1996Jul16....@rosevax.rosemount.com>,

Grant Edwards <gra...@reddwarf.rosemount.com> wrote:
>Sure it's a cute penguin, but it's not a logo. A logo is something you can
>cast into a slug of lead. Literally. "Logo" is short for "logotype" whish
>is a piece of lead type that has been specially cast or cut with the emblem
>of a particular organization.
>
>It has to work as well in black and white as in color (no half-tone screens
>either!). You can have colors if you want, but it has to work as well in
>black and white, and it has to work at all sizes from 16pt to 16m. The
>penguin doesn't. The IBM logo (the stripey IBM letters) is a good one. The
>Sun logo (the four S's) is a good one. The MS-Windows logo (the flying
>window) is a good one. The Pepsi ball, the Nike swoosh, The old Bell System
>"bell" logo are all good logos. They all work in black and white, and you
>can scale them down to put in the corner of a business card or up to fill a
>billboard without loosing the identity of the image.

Some of these logos have been heavily criticized, (the IBM logo and the AT&T
``death star'' come to mind), but I agree with your point: the logo has to
work in black and white, and it should be something you could cast into a
stamp.

>The penguin will look lousy in black and white. The penguin will look lousy
>at 16pt on a 300dpi output device.
>

>: Now O'Reilly has a good choice of animal for covers of future Linux titles.
>
>: I took a look at the logos at the voting site mentioned by the person who


>: started this thread, and I didn't find any of them too exciting. I'm
>: frankly sick of slick raytraced fonts.
>

>Anything ray-traced will almost definitly make a lousy logo for the reasons
>I've explained above: they are _way_ too complex and rely on shading and
>high-resolution.

Right. First you make a logo, _then_ you whip out the ray-tracing. The extra
dimension doesn't have to be part of the logo, necessarily.

>A logo has to be SIMPLE, SIMPLE, SIMPLE!

I'm trying stuff out. How about the following. It does play on the 'Linux'
letters, like many of the other contributions. It's 2D, and made up of
simple vector graphics primitives supported by PostScript. This is just
a first draft, I already have a neat addition in mind:


%!PS-Adobe-2.0 EPSF-2.0
%%Title: linux2.fig


%%Creator: fig2dev Version 3.1 Patchlevel 2

%%CreationDate: Tue Jul 16 20:59:46 1996


%%For: kaz@bullwinkle (The Kazinator,,,,)
%Magnification: 1.00
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%%BoundingBox: 0 0 218 524

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rs

Bob Nelson

unread,
Jul 17, 1996, 3:00:00 AM7/17/96
to

Raymond Nijssen (ray...@krait.es.ele.tue.nl) wrote:
> hmcc...@ix.netcom.com (Hugh McCurdy) writes:

> > I'm sorry, but I just don't understand where using a Penguin as a logo
> > is going to keep Linux from being taken seriously. Maybe it will, but
> > I don't see an arguement that soundly supports the premise.

> How about scaring off vendors who are, in principle,
> willing to produce versions of their commercial
> software for Linux.

> The grotesque immaturity, blatantly displayed by this
> bloated piece of poultry will undoubtedly scare off

> commercial interest. Who wants his products


> associated with a platform that manifests itself as
> utterly pre-adolescent?

You're taking this much too seriously, IMNSHO. Unless things have


changed, linux's "success" is not hinged upon any acceptance by the
commercial world nor should it be concerened about things like
mindshare or perception.

linux is a hacker's dream come true and and it's FUN! In that sense,
the penguin succeeds as an emblem embodying that ideal.

--
=============================================================================
Bob Nelson: Dallas, Texas, U.S.A. - bne...@netcom.com
linux for fun, M$ for $$$...and the NFL for what really counts!
=============================================================================


Arthur D. Jerijian

unread,
Jul 17, 1996, 3:00:00 AM7/17/96
to

NO!!!! Keep the Penguin!

--Arthur

vl...@net-link.net (Psychodad) wrote:

>The proposed Penguin Logo is horrible,making it an official Linux logo,
>will be a HUGE mistake,pleasae come to http://ballot.box.com/linux/

>and vote against the Penguin,vote for Linux1-matt-ericson.gif,it still
>has a good chance to win!


>V.R.

Michael Hasenstein

unread,
Jul 17, 1996, 3:00:00 AM7/17/96
to

On Wed, 17 Jul 1996, Arthur D. Jerijian wrote:

> NO!!!! Keep the Penguin!
>
> --Arthur

NO!!! Get rid of the penguin!

(thats just my single voice against it; 'that's no logo' was my first
thought when I saw it)

--
*******************************************************************
email: Michael.H...@informatik.tu-chemnitz.de (MIME welcome)
homepage: http://www.tu-chemnitz.de/~mha/
my private pc: benjy.csn.tu-chemnitz.de (Linux!!) or 134.109.96.69
*******************************************************************


Mark Hamstra

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Jul 17, 1996, 3:00:00 AM7/17/96
to

Kazinator wrote:
>
> You know, even a realistic-looking penguin carried out with some graphic
> design pizazz would be great.

I did one of these that I was pretty happy with. It should be up at
http://www.redhat.com/redhat/dtc/penguin.html; except that, with Red
Hat's webserver reorganization, it's broken right now. I'll fix it
soon.

Mark

Berend_W_van_Bemmel

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Jul 17, 1996, 3:00:00 AM7/17/96
to

gra...@reddwarf.rosemount.com (Grant Edwards) writes:

>brown andrew todd (atbr...@students.uiuc.edu) wrote:
>: Mark Hamstra (mark.h...@sullivan.bentley.com) wrote:
>: > Louis J. LaBash Jr. wrote:
>: > >
>: > > You've missed a very important point: the boss (Linus) chose the
>: > > Penguin.

>: > This is one of those (few) times when I wish Linus didn't have so much
>: > control over Linux. In this instance the boss is wrong.

>: I've been quite surprised by this thread. I like the penguin!
>: Cute little fella.

>Sure it's a cute penguin, but it's not a logo. A logo is something you can


>cast into a slug of lead. Literally. "Logo" is short for "logotype" whish
>is a piece of lead type that has been specially cast or cut with the emblem
>of a particular organization.

>It has to work as well in black and white as in color (no half-tone screens
>either!). You can have colors if you want, but it has to work as well in
>black and white, and it has to work at all sizes from 16pt to 16m. The
>penguin doesn't. The IBM logo (the stripey IBM letters) is a good one. The
>Sun logo (the four S's) is a good one. The MS-Windows logo (the flying
>window) is a good one. The Pepsi ball, the Nike swoosh, The old Bell System
>"bell" logo are all good logos. They all work in black and white, and you
>can scale them down to put in the corner of a business card or up to fill a
>billboard without loosing the identity of the image.

>The penguin will look lousy in black and white. The penguin will look lousy


>at 16pt on a 300dpi output device.

>: Now O'Reilly has a good choice of animal for covers of future Linux titles.

>: I took a look at the logos at the voting site mentioned by the person who
>: started this thread, and I didn't find any of them too exciting. I'm
>: frankly sick of slick raytraced fonts.

>Anything ray-traced will almost definitly make a lousy logo for the reasons
>I've explained above: they are _way_ too complex and rely on shading and
>high-resolution.

>A logo has to be SIMPLE, SIMPLE, SIMPLE!

>If you can't draw it with a pencil (you're allowed to look at, but not trace


>the original), then toss it out.

>-- Hmm, I agree about the logo part of the above. But I do like the
pinguin as a mascote, you could have it doing different things round and
about the logo -whichever it may be- like drinking beer, reading the
manpages, sleeping, (screwing maybe?) etc.

So IMHO we should get a simple textual logo, in a typeset that gives it
the distinct and recognisable 'logo' feel that we want, and throw in the
pinguin for fun and games (and I sure would like to have a furry one to
put on top of my bax, or hang on the inside mirror of my car ;-).

Greetings,

Berend van Bemmel
--
+ Berend W. van Bemmel +----( this space is not for rent! )-----+
+ e-mail: bem...@xs4all.nl +--------------------------------------+
+ www: http://www.xs4all.nl/~bemmel + home phone:(+31)(20)6257390 +

Dale K. Hawkins

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Jul 17, 1996, 3:00:00 AM7/17/96
to

Dave Cinege (dci...@superlink.net) wrote:

: In <4sh8n1$n...@magma.Mines.EDU>, dhaw...@slate.Mines.EDU (Dale K. Hawkins) writes:
: >Just my 00000010.

: Don't you mean 00001010

Well, I thought about it.
00000010 == 2 (value)
Where as
00001010
are two asserted bits.
Another route would be
10
but that starts to look like decimal ten when it should be two bits
with the value of two.

10b

But anyway it is a completely mute point, and people are going to
flame me for wasting band width in the midst of such a serious thread.

I'd rather be writing slogans as I am not much of an Artist.

What are some of the better slogans that are out there for Linux?

1. Linux, not just for breakfast anymore.
2. Linux, the choice of a GNU generation.
...

-Dale

Michael Zboray

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Jul 17, 1996, 3:00:00 AM7/17/96
to

I agree, The penguin is a looser.
There Should be a runnoff between the top two

Mike Z.

Wayne Dyer

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Jul 17, 1996, 3:00:00 AM7/17/96
to

Kazinator wrote:
[...]

> You know, even a realistic-looking penguin carried out with some graphic
> design pizazz would be great.
>
> Penguin Books comes to mind. I'm trying to recall what their logo looks like,
> but I do believe that it incorporates some sort of penguin.

I believe it's a penguin, standing in profile, inside an ellipse.

I like the idea of having a mascot, but the statements so far about the
need for a logo to be simple, reproducible, and work well in B&W are quite
valid. Even something as baroque as the Norton motorcycle logo would be
splendid. (I've tried that one, and I don't think it works well -- but I
love the idea.) Logos weren't always so simple (take a look at the Bell
System logo from the early 20th century, for example), and they don't have
to be all primary colors and geometric shapes, but a simple mark can be a
powerful image. (The Batsignal comes to mind, or Superman's "S"...)

One thing I'd like to see hopeful logo designers avoid: the temptation to
use the horizontal stroke of the "L" as a device. It's obvious, but it's
overused.
--
Wayne Dyer :: dwd...@eskimo.com :: http://www.eskimo.com/~dwdyer/
"But then of course African swallows are non-migratory."

Arve Fahlvik

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Jul 18, 1996, 3:00:00 AM7/18/96
to

gra...@reddwarf.rosemount.com (Grant Edwards) wrote:

>Sure it's a cute penguin, but it's not a logo. A logo is something you can
>cast into a slug of lead. Literally. "Logo" is short for "logotype" whish
>is a piece of lead type that has been specially cast or cut with the emblem
>of a particular organization.

I like the penguin, as a mascot.

>It has to work as well in black and white as in color (no half-tone screens
>either!). You can have colors if you want, but it has to work as well in
>black and white, and it has to work at all sizes from 16pt to 16m. The
>penguin doesn't. The IBM logo (the stripey IBM letters) is a good one. The
>Sun logo (the four S's) is a good one. The MS-Windows logo (the flying
>window) is a good one. The Pepsi ball, the Nike swoosh, The old Bell System
>"bell" logo are all good logos. They all work in black and white, and you
>can scale them down to put in the corner of a business card or up to fill a
>billboard without loosing the identity of the image.

>


>A logo has to be SIMPLE, SIMPLE, SIMPLE!
>

I agree.

Here are the URL to my suggestion:
http://www.intercom.no/~steffen/linux.gif

The leaf is menth to be a fig leaf!

I am
a...@allianse.no
and
kon...@ln.statoil.no
and
arve.f...@st.notes.telemax.no

Michael Dillon

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Jul 18, 1996, 3:00:00 AM7/18/96
to

In article <slrn4uo7tg...@smol.fast.net>,
Tony Smolar <asm...@fast.net> wrote:

>I agree with you. Although I like the penguin, I don't think it makes a good
>logo. I really can't see it along side the "SCO ok", "Netware Yes",
>"Windows Compatible" logos.

Ooohhhh!! GREAT IDEA!!!

Linux compatible software could sport a Thumbs Up for Linux version of
Pengo with his thumb raised.

--
Michael Dillon - ISP & Internet Consulting
Memra Software Inc. - Fax: +1-604-546-3049
http://www.memra.com - E-mail: mic...@memra.com

Neil Thompson

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Jul 18, 1996, 3:00:00 AM7/18/96
to

I'm afraid you've already lost!

The penguin was chosen by Linus, and as such has been adopted by fiat.

Cheers.

Neil
In article <4senue$j...@usenet10.interramp.com>,

Wim Vandeputte

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Jul 18, 1996, 3:00:00 AM7/18/96
to

Raymond Nijssen (ray...@krait.es.ele.tue.nl) wrote:
: The grotesque immaturity, blatantly displayed by this

: bloated piece of poultry will undoubtedly scare off
: commercial interest. Who wants his products
: associated with a platform that manifests itself as
: utterly pre-adolescent?

excuse me, but what do you think then of the little (bsd?) Devil.

Adult? Grown up? full of confident?

I dunno. logo's just catch on. Or they don't. You just have to see it enough
times to get used to it.

besides, I noticed it to pop up on a lot of other systems, even on the home
page of our Sparc 1000 systems off our university.