Computer freeze while loading BBE on FreeDOS
Thomas L. Christensen
I have no problems with FreeDOS and BBE on my regular PC, but on my
IBM Thinkpad 360C, I have some problems.
If I do not load emm386.exe, only himem.sys, I can load BBE. But,
normally I have these two lines
DEVICE=C:\THINKPAD\IBMDSS01.SYS
DEVICE=C:\THINKPAD\IBMDOSCS.SYS
in config.sys to activate the PCMCIA slot (or something). If I load
only the first line, or both of them, I get KR-07 when starting BBE.
If I load emm386.exe, then the last line makes the computer reboot.
Normally, when using MS-DOS and QEMM, optimize.exe exclude C000-C3FF
(ARAM=C000-C3FF), so I have tried to exclude that and other areas to
see if it helped. It did not. X=C000-C3FF made the computer freeze
when loading IBMDOSSC.SYS, other areas just made it reboot.
2. If I load emm386.exe, and not the PCMCIA drivers, BBE freeze while
the splashscreen is still on. I started loader.exe with the log
switch, and this is what the log file looks like:
Logging On
Initializing Timer Module
Initializing Scrub Thread
Initializing IM Thread
Initializing Fonts
Initializing Graphics Module
Initializing Window Module
Initializing vidmem.geo
Initializing emm.geo
Initializing xms.geo
Initializing disk.geo
Initializing Danish Extended Keyboard
Initializing nimbus.geo
Initializing Keyboard driver
Initializing Sound driver
Creating Flow Object
Initializing Specific UI
Initializing Token DB
Initializing Screens
Initializing VESA 256-color SVGA Driver
In a normal boot it continues with
Initializing Input Map
Initializing Screen Blanker
Initializing Spooler
Initializing Mailbox
Initializing - disabled
Initializing Graphical Setup
Initializing Mouse driver
Initializing IBM PS/2 Mouse
Error - no driver entry in INI file for:
secondMouse
Initializing Clipboard
Initializing Task-Switch Driver
Initializing Non-Switching Task Driver
Could there be something wrong in my config.sys? I don't know much
about the settings I use, I just copied them from Hans's config.sys.
DEVICE=a:\FDOS\HIMEM.EXE
rem DEVICE=a:\fdos\emm386.exe ALTBOOT
rem X=C000-C3FF
FILES=120
BUFFERS=8
LASTDRIVE=H
SWITCHES=/F /N
DOS=HIGH,UMB
DEVICE=A:\IBMVESA\VESA.EXE
rem DEVICE=C:\THINKPAD\IBMDSS01.SYS
rem DEVICE=C:\THINKPAD\IBMDOSCS.SYS
SHELL=a:\COMMAND.COM a:\ /E:1024 /F /MSG /K a:\AUTOEXEC.BAT
Hope anyone can help me...
Thomas
Hans Lindgren
On 2004-08-09 19:20, Thomas L. Christensen wrote:
>Hi
>
>I have no problems with FreeDOS and BBE on my regular PC, but on my
>IBM Thinkpad 360C, I have some problems.
>
>
I am not surprised. Portables, like Thinkpad, is somewhat special
compared to ordinary PC:s. And FreeDOS is also a different story
compared to mainstream DOS.
Merge these together will certainly be a task. There is links on the
FreeDOS homepage http://www.freedos.org that deals with FreeDOS on
portables, you might need to check it out.
>If I do not load emm386.exe, only himem.sys, I can load BBE. But,
>normally I have these two lines
>
>DEVICE=C:\THINKPAD\IBMDSS01.SYS
>DEVICE=C:\THINKPAD\IBMDOSCS.SYS
>
OK, seems that cause problems for EMM386.EXE or the other way around.
Well, since you took my Config.sys, I feel a bit responsible ;-)
The buffers value seems a bit low at first sight, so I suggest that you
rise the value of buffers to 30. The exclude command in EMM386.EXE,
X=A000-C7FF, refers to the video shadow RAM and needs to be excluded
from use of EMM386. I would suggest that you try the config.sys, without
loading your drivers.. Try his one instead:
FILES=120
BUFFERS=30
LASTDRIVE=H
SWITCHES=/F /N
DOS=HIGH,UMB
DEVICE=a:\FDOS\HIMEM.EXE
DEVICE=a:\fdos\emm386.exe ALTBOOT X=A000-C7FF
SHELLHIGH=a:\COMMAND.COM a:\ /E:1024 /F /MSG /K a:\AUTOEXEC.BAT
If the config.sys above works I would try to add the Vesa driver, like this:
FILES=120
BUFFERS=30
LASTDRIVE=H
SWITCHES=/F /N
DOS=HIGH,UMB
DEVICE=a:\FDOS\HIMEM.EXE
DEVICE=a:\fdos\emm386.exe ALTBOOT X=A000-C7FF
SHELLHIGH=a:\COMMAND.COM a:\ /E:1024 /F /MSG /K a:\AUTOEXEC.BAT
DEVICE=A:\IBMVESA\VESA.EXE
If the above also works, I would suggest this:
FILES=120
BUFFERS=30
LASTDRIVE=H
SWITCHES=/F /N
DOS=HIGH,UMB
DEVICE=a:\FDOS\HIMEM.EXE
DEVICE=a:\fdos\emm386.exe ALTBOOT X=A000-C7FF
SHELLHIGH=a:\COMMAND.COM a:\ /E:1024 /F /MSG /K a:\AUTOEXEC.BAT
DEVICE=A:\IBMVESA\VESA.EXE
DEVICE=C:\THINKPAD\IBMDSS01.SYS
DEVICE=C:\THINKPAD\IBMDOSCS.SYS
If this works, then you have solved the problem. If it doesn't work, then I think you have a conflict with one or both of your PC-Card (PCMCIA) drivers and your video card, as the PCMCIA driver use C000-C3FF, and will overlap with the shadow RAM area of your graphics adapter A000-C7FF. If you run normal 16 color graphics, you might not notice this as a problem, but if you use Vesa and 256 color, the conflict will be evident. There might also be an issue with the EMM386 driver, but if the EMM386 driver will work in the two first examples, there might be a conflict between the EMM386 and PCMCIA drivers and/or Vesa driver. The testing above will show. Test and please come back with your results, and them I might help you further on.
There are also some more parameters to test in EMM386, that will fine tune the use of upper memory, but they will not help solving your current problems, and therefore, for the moment, irrelevant.
BR,
Hans
Thomas L. Christensen
<nospamhan...@abc.se> wrote:
>The buffers value seems a bit low at first sight, so I suggest that you
>rise the value of buffers to 30.
I have asked about buffers here before, and the answer was I don't
need buffers at all. It's only to speed up harddisk access a little,
and if you use e.g. smartdrive, you can set buffers to the minimum
value.
>The exclude command in EMM386.EXE,
>X=A000-C7FF, refers to the video shadow RAM and needs to be excluded
>from use of EMM386. I would suggest that you try the config.sys, without
>loading your drivers.. Try his one instead:
>
>FILES=120
>BUFFERS=30
>LASTDRIVE=H
>SWITCHES=/F /N
>DOS=HIGH,UMB
>DEVICE=a:\FDOS\HIMEM.EXE
>DEVICE=a:\fdos\emm386.exe ALTBOOT X=A000-C7FF
>SHELLHIGH=a:\COMMAND.COM a:\ /E:1024 /F /MSG /K a:\AUTOEXEC.BAT
>
No luck. The computer freeze while lading BBE. It works if I rem out
the emm386 line...
>If this works, then you have solved the problem. If it doesn't work, then I think you have a conflict with one or both of your PC-Card (PCMCIA) drivers and your video card, as the PCMCIA driver use C000-C3FF, and will overlap with the shadow RAM area of your graphics adapter A000-C7FF.
Well, there is a conflict, and it involves emm386.exe. I just tried to
run loader with the nomem option, and this, of course, works fine.
After I send the message, I realized I was confusing two things. The
PCMCIA drivers do not require I exclude memory areas. It is the NIC
that does. With MS-DOS I can load both PCMCIA drivers and the vesa
driver, without excluding anything, and run BBE, so it is only the
FreeDos emm386 that course problems.
I'm not sure I know what this shadow RAM area you talk about is, but
with MS_DOS there is, as said, no reason to exclude anything - in
fact, I can include B000-B7FF and still everything runs fine...
Well, the reason why I asked this very FreeDos related question in
this group, was to show you the geos loader logfil. I thought it could
tell something, if you could see when in the boot process geos
freeze... One thing you _can_ see is it freeze after loading the 256
color driver, so it would be natural to think this could be the
problem. But it also freeze when using 16 colors driver... :-(
What is this "Input Map"? Looks like it course the problem?
Okay, it is not important for me to get FreeDos running on my
Thinkpad. It runs on my desktop PC and that's the most important...
Thomas
Hans Lindgren
On 2004-08-11 18:07, Thomas L. Christensen wrote:
On Mon, 09 Aug 2004 21:25:28 GMT, Hans Lindgren <nospamhan...@abc.se> wrote:The buffers value seems a bit low at first sight, so I suggest that you rise the value of buffers to 30.
I have asked about buffers here before, and the answer was I don't need buffers at all. It's only to speed up harddisk access a little, and if you use e.g. smartdrive, you can set buffers to the minimum value.The exclude command in EMM386.EXE, X=A000-C7FF, refers to the video shadow RAM and needs to be excluded>from use of EMM386. I would suggest that you try the config.sys, withoutloading your drivers.. Try his one instead: FILES=120 BUFFERS=30 LASTDRIVE=H SWITCHES=/F /N DOS=HIGH,UMB DEVICE=a:\FDOS\HIMEM.EXE DEVICE=a:\fdos\emm386.exe ALTBOOT X=A000-C7FF SHELLHIGH=a:\COMMAND.COM a:\ /E:1024 /F /MSG /K a:\AUTOEXEC.BATNo luck. The computer freeze while lading BBE. It works if I rem out the emm386 line...
If this works, then you have solved the problem. If it doesn't work, then I think you have a conflict with one or both of your PC-Card (PCMCIA) drivers and your video card, as the PCMCIA driver use C000-C3FF, and will overlap with the shadow RAM area of your graphics adapter A000-C7FF.Well, there is a conflict, and it involves emm386.exe. I just tried to run loader with the nomem option, and this, of course, works fine. After I send the message, I realized I was confusing two things. The PCMCIA drivers do not require I exclude memory areas. It is the NIC that does. With MS-DOS I can load both PCMCIA drivers and the vesa driver, without excluding anything, and run BBE, so it is only the FreeDos emm386 that course problems.
I'm not sure I know what this shadow RAM area you talk about is, but with MS_DOS there is, as said, no reason to exclude anything - in fact, I can include B000-B7FF and still everything runs fine...
Well, the reason why I asked this very FreeDos related question in this group, was to show you the geos loader logfil. I thought it could tell something, if you could see when in the boot process geos freeze... One thing you _can_ see is it freeze after loading the 256 color driver, so it would be natural to think this could be the problem. But it also freeze when using 16 colors driver... :-(
What is this "Input Map"? Looks like it course the problem?
Okay, it is not important for me to get FreeDos running on my Thinkpad. It runs on my desktop PC and that's the most important...
Hilsen
Hans
Jens-Michael Gross
>
> Hi
>
> I have no problems with FreeDOS and BBE on my regular PC, but on my
> IBM Thinkpad 360C, I have some problems.
>
> If I do not load emm386.exe, only himem.sys, I can load BBE. But,
> normally I have these two lines
>
> DEVICE=C:\THINKPAD\IBMDSS01.SYS
> DEVICE=C:\THINKPAD\IBMDOSCS.SYS
>
> in config.sys to activate the PCMCIA slot (or something). If I load
> only the first line, or both of them, I get KR-07 when starting BBE.
> If I load emm386.exe, then the last line makes the computer reboot.
> Normally, when using MS-DOS and QEMM, optimize.exe exclude C000-C3FF
> (ARAM=C000-C3FF), so I have tried to exclude that and other areas to
> see if it helped. It did not. X=C000-C3FF made the computer freeze
> when loading IBMDOSSC.SYS, other areas just made it reboot.
> 2. If I load emm386.exe, and not the PCMCIA drivers, BBE freeze while
> the splashscreen is still on. I started loader.exe with the log
> switch, and this is what the log file looks like:
> Initializing VESA 256-color SVGA Driver
So it seems to have problems initializing the video card with EMM386
loaded.
Seems like accessing the VESA functions of the Video bios leads into a
crash when EMM386 is loadet.
So let's take a look at EMM386 UMB functionality.
EMM286 doe snot only provide EMS memory. It puts the processor in V64
mode to enable its internal memory management unit.
With this, every access of a 'logical' memory address causes the
processor to look up its internal memory translation table for the real
physical address associated with the logical address.
This means, while the program code is only accessing the area from 0 to
1MB, the processor can access memory located anywhere on the system.
The EMM function uses this to map portions of memory above 1MB into the
EMS page frame, so a program can access them as if in the first MB. This
is done to simulate the functionality of 'real' EMS cards which had a
64KB window in the first MB where portions of its own memory could be
mapped into.
But since EMM386 is already mangling the memory, it offers more than
just that:
Normally, the memory above 640KB (the conventional memory) is mapped to
different hardware by the chipset. This means, the processor gives a
call to a physical address at e.g. a000:0000 and the chipset redirects
this call to the video card memory.
EMM386, however, can tell the processor to access a difdferent area in
physical ram above 1MB instead, while the application is still calling
for a000:0000.
This has the effect that areas between 640KB and 1MB which are not used
by external hardware can be virtually filled with ram for upper memory
usage. Also, used, but after bootign unnecessary areas of used UMB space
(such as the BIOS setup code) can be replaced with usable ram. And as an
addition, emm386 can copy the slow ROMs (PC-BIOS and VGA-BIOS and maybe
other cards) into ram and map this ram where the ROM originally was.
This makes the execution in the ROM faster.
After all, when you access the area above 640K, you're accessing
completely different memory areas spread all over the system RAM, after
emm386 has been loaded. And the software does not notice the change.
Not it comes to the problems:
On a normal PC, the area a000:0000 to a000:ffff is used for color video
memory. B000:0000 to b000:7fff is hercules monochrome memory (only used
when hercules mdoe is activated and if the cards emulates a hercules
card at all). It could be replaced with RAM.
B800:000 to b800:7ff (or b000:ffff, which is the same) is the memory
area for normal text video.
And after this, c000:0000 to c000:7fff is usually the video BIOS.
Then comes a big gap and at f000:0000 normally the PC BIOS starts.
But now the problems start:
On a mobile, the video card usually isn't standard. From additional RAM
area trough a larger or differently placed or even multiplexed ROM for
the LCD to additional areas where adapters (like the PC card slot) put
their RAM into.
If emm386 just replaces all this with normal system ram, it's obvious
that a crash will happen.
If the ROM is switched (in order to not occupy more than the normal 32KB
video BIOS area while the video bios is larger) it must not be copied
into RAM but has to be executed as untouched ROM. Same for the system
BIOS.
And of course it won't help to replace the access window for a PC card
with normal RAM and load a driver into this area.
QEMM comes with an utility called Manifest (mft). It can show you the
current state of the upper memory.
YOu should configure QEMM to initially do NOTHING except monitoring
access to the ram/rom/whatever.
Load qemm as first driver with no parameters (or any parameter that
prevents qemm from doing anything, like /noframe etc.). Then load qemm
again with the /reset switch. It will clear the access table.
Once the system has booted to the DOS prompt, start manifest and check
what it tells you about the first MB. Maybe it identifies adapter RAM
(for PC card) or additional ROMS. It should not show any mapped memory
or page frame in this step. Then you can add parameters to copy the BIOS
rom the VGA BIOS or whatever. After each change, reboot and test your
software for crashes THis way you can identify the offending area.
After running your software successfully, launch MFT again and check the
usage map. It will point you to parts of the upper memory which haven't
been accessed at all by your software. It is likely that you can include
them for UMB usage (QEMM I parameter), while parts that have been
accessed while there was no ram are likely to be necessary for normal
operation and need to be untouced by QEMM.
It's a long and sometimes complicated process, but it will bring you the
maximum UMB space as well as no crashes.
The optimize utility you got with QEMM, does not help there. It just
tries to optimally load your drivers into the pieces of mapped RAM after
you figured out where you can place RAM at all in upper memory.
Grossibaer