The intranet
C BLANK II
single entity such as a school or business that would be a networked 'intranet'
not requiring an isp? A system where all the capabilities of the NDO web/email
programs could be used for an internal networked system? Is NDO capable of even
permitting such a thing?
Seems to me that if it could be done there could be a good market for it and it
could be a good marketing tool for NDO too.
Chip Blank
GeoGrafix
GUI
Visit the Geos Users International web site at
http://members.aol.com/GUIUSA/GUI_USA.html
qui...@io.com
> What would it take to be able to set up an internet type site/page system for a
> single entity such as a school or business that would be a networked 'intranet'
> not requiring an isp? A system where all the capabilities of the NDO web/email
> programs could be used for an internal networked system? Is NDO capable of even
> permitting such a thing?
Certainly. I'm putting together something along those lines right now. All
the desktops will be networked ND running a combination of native apps and
DOS. The server is Novell for Small Business (4.11). There will be a number
of static webpages for Skipper to peruse (no cgi or scripting). The server
comes loaded with communications and connectivity apps, so we will be using
Pegasus and Mercury for both internal and internet email, and Netware
Connect for a ppp to our isp.
An easy alternative might be a linux box running Apache as a webserver and
providing connectivity via sendmail and ppp connections. And a linux box
running Samba could also provide access to a DOS networked file system and
print services for MS network clients.
> Seems to me that if it could be done there could be a good market for it and it
> could be a good marketing tool for NDO too.
It looks like it will work for us since we depend on a lot of donated
hardware and are still very much DOS based...
--
qui...@io.com - Jim Eikner at Illuminati Online in Austin, Texas
http://www.io.com/~quiver
C BLANK II
providing connectivity via sendmail and ppp connections. And a linux box
running Samba could also provide access to a DOS networked file system and
For best use by ND I think the whole thing would need to be run in DOS/NDO
mode. Can that be done without LINUX or Windows?
qui...@io.com
> mode. Can that be done without LINUX or Windows?
Well, you'll need some sort of network. A simple, flexible and relatively
low-cost option might be a peer-to-peer like Lantastic. An unlimited site
license from them is less than $1000 US. Its as simple as a worm to install
and maintain, has its own internal email and modem-share utility, and
doesn't require a dedicated server running a NOS. I would want to test ND
first to make sure there were no base conflicts. Anyone with any experience
mixing Lantastic and NewDeal?
Another possibility might be Caldera's DR-DOS which I believe still contains
Novell's old Personal NetWare peer-to-peer built right into the OS. This
would also give ND access to the multi-tasking features of DR. But I can
tell you from sad experience that the Personal NetWare I encountered was
buggy and a b*tch to install. It is outdated and no longer supported by
Novell. Lantastic is a much better choice, IMO...
Gladys Flores
> C BLANK II <cbla...@aol.com> mused...
> > For best use by ND I think the whole thing would need to be run in DOS/NDO
> > mode. Can that be done without LINUX or Windows?
>
> Another possibility might be Caldera's DR-DOS which I believe still contains
> Novell's old Personal NetWare peer-to-peer built right into the OS. This
> would also give ND access to the multi-tasking features of DR. But I can
> tell you from sad experience that the Personal NetWare I encountered was
> buggy and a b*tch to install. It is outdated and no longer supported by
> Novell. Lantastic is a much better choice, IMO...
Caldera Open DR-DOS uses a never version of the LSL and is therefore not
compatible with the OtherODI driver for NDO :-( it is compatible for filesharing
etc. though.
I think I have seen some place a proxy or something for DOS where a 286 would be
enough to act as a dialupserver... gotta look it up
--
Gladys Flores
gladys...@gmx.net
C BLANK II
***
Assuming the network setup is not a problem, what in NDO will allow for the
intranet concept to work graphically in native GEOS?
qui...@io.com
> Assuming the network setup is not a problem, what in NDO will allow for the
> intranet concept to work graphically in native GEOS?
1) Assuming everyone on the network uses the ND Office apps, the exchange of
wordprocessing and spreadsheet information should be transparent.
2) If the network is ND compatible, there should be graphical access to both
HOME and common/shared directories.
3) Skipper could access static html documents directly on the network, or,
if there was a webserver (such as Apache), cgi and server-side forms, sql
databases and templates could be processed.
4) If the network provided unix mail protocols, NewMail could be used for
both internal and external communications.
5) If the network made a shared ppp connection available, Skipper could be
used to "surf the web".
6) It is possible to establish chat on an intranet, and I believe there are
graphical ND clients available.
7) Shared printing, storage and backups should be more or less transparent
to ND.
8) Industry specific apps such as accounting, databases, etc are still
readily available as network applications for DOS and can be run, as needed,
by shelling from ND.
9) VNC (Virtual Network Computing) is available for ND. VNC allows graphical
access to unix X-Window, Win9x and NT sessions on a host machine. The range
of graphical apps available on those systems is vast and complete.
Raymond Ancog
>
> What would it take to be able to set up an internet type site/page system for a
> single entity such as a school or business that would be a networked 'intranet'
> not requiring an isp? A system where all the capabilities of the NDO web/email
> programs could be used for an internal networked system? Is NDO capable of even
> permitting such a thing?
Well, I think that's what IBM Eduquest's Geos-based SchoolView attempted
to do. It had a NetWare server and Geos clients. If the license with IBM
wasn't an issue, it would have been neat to use the network files of
SchoolView and add them to NDO.
--
Ravin' Ray
your friendly neighborhood paleontologist
http://www.geocities.com/CapeCanaveral/Hangar/9020
"I'm a geologist who uses GEOS and has a Geocities web site!"
C BLANK II
to do. It had a NetWare server and Geos clients. If the license with IBM
wasn't an issue, it would have been neat to use the network files of
SchoolView and add them to NDO.
--
Ravin' Ray***
Why would it be an issue? Wouldn't IBM issue a license? Could web style surfing
on the intranet and intranet web pages be possible on that IBM network system?
C BLANK II
wordprocessing and spreadsheet information should be transparent.
2) If the network is ND compatible, there should be graphical access to both
HOME and common/shared directories.
3) Skipper could access static html documents directly on the network, or,
if there was a webserver (such as Apache), cgi and server-side forms, sql
databases and templates could be processed.
4) If the network provided unix mail protocols, NewMail could be used for
both internal and external communications.
5) If the network made a shared ppp connection available, Skipper could be
used to "surf the web".
6) It is possible to establish chat on an intranet, and I believe there are
graphical ND clients available.
7) Shared printing, storage and backups should be more or less transparent
to ND.
8) Industry specific apps such as accounting, databases, etc are still
readily available as network applications for DOS and can be run, as needed,
by shelling from ND.
9) VNC (Virtual Network Computing) is available for ND. VNC allows graphical
access to unix X-Window, Win9x and NT sessions on a host machine. The range
of graphical apps available on those systems is vast and complete.
--
qui...@io.com - Jim Eikner at Illuminati Online in Austin, Texas***
While bing able to move and share files is good on any network, I am mainly
concerned with being able to browse an in-house intranet and view/write web
pages on that intranet, and send receive email within it. The intranet should
be a closed system at least.
settummanque or blackeagle
>Well, I think that's what IBM Eduquest's >Geos-based SchoolView attempted
>to do. It had a NetWare server and Geos >clients. If the license with IBM
>wasn't an issue, it would have been neat >to use the network files of
>SchoolView and add them to NDO.
That would work. But I've yet to find ANYONE that even HEARD of SchoolView,
let alone let me purchase a copy of it.
Even the IBM people kept sending me to Geoworks....a shame...
Settummanque!
settummanque, the blackeagle ((MAJ) Mike Walton)
Co-Owner/Marketing Leader kyblk...@aol.com
Rose Walton Personal Computing Coaching
<URL:http://users.aol.com/rwcoaching/>
Burnsville, Minnesota USA "No fancy slogans....just GREAT work!
Steve Main
>let alone let me purchase a copy of it.
>Even the IBM people kept sending me to Geoworks....a shame...
>
As far as I know, SchoolView is no longer sold by
EduQuest (IBM). It's been replaced by SchoolVista,
which requires Windows workstations.
Quite a number of schools across the U.S. have
SchoolView installed and IBM continues to support
those installations.
SchoolView was never available directly from IBM.
IBM sold it only through VARs and through independent
EduQuest sales reps, if I understand correctly.
These folks sell to schools and work through channels
and territories that have been established over the
years. SchoolView was designed specifically for grammar
schools and has no purpose in other businesses or
for home users. If you are a school that used or uses ICLAS
(IBM's previous, command-line-based networking product
for schools), then it's pretty certain that your purchasing
agent was at least introduced to SchoolView.
Steve
-----
"The significant problems we face cannot
be solved at the same level of thinking we
were at when we created them."
-Albert Einstein
-----
David Given
qui...@io.com writes:
> Well, you'll need some sort of network. A simple, flexible and relatively
> low-cost option might be a peer-to-peer like Lantastic. An unlimited site
> license from them is less than $1000 US. Its as simple as a worm to install
> and maintain, has its own internal email and modem-share utility, and
> doesn't require a dedicated server running a NOS. I would want to test ND
> first to make sure there were no base conflicts. Anyone with any experience
> mixing Lantastic and NewDeal?
$1000? You're kidding! Download Microsoft's SMB client for DOS (free, and
works very well, despite eating a lot of base memory). Get an old 486 or
early Pentium (easily obtainable in most schools). Install Linux on it
(free). Install Samba on that (also free). This gives you a client-server
based networking system with per-user space, authentication, shared
printers, and all the extras.
--
+- David Given ---------------McQ-+ "Scuzzy Wuzzy was a bus.
| Work: d...@tao-group.com | Scuzzy Wuzzy caused no fuss.
| Play: dgi...@iname.com | Scuzzy Wuzzy wasn't SCSI, was he?"
+- http://wired.st-and.ac.uk/~dg -+ --- Jordin Kare
qui...@io.com
> $1000? You're kidding! Download Microsoft's SMB client for DOS (free, and
> works very well, despite eating a lot of base memory). Get an old 486 or
> early Pentium (easily obtainable in most schools). Install Linux on it
> (free). Install Samba on that (also free). This gives you a client-server
> based networking system with per-user space, authentication, shared
> printers, and all the extras.
Oh, I totally agree: the linux/SAMBA combo is really the only setup that
makes sense for a low-budget/non-profit operation. But this less than
optimal answer was directly in response to the restricted requirement by the
original poster that no MS or linux be required (I assume he meant no
seperate NOS). Peer-to-peer was the only thing I could come up with, other
than sneaker-net.
And, BTW, the $1000 US is for an *unlimited* site license; there are far
less costly options for smaller installs. With Lantastic, which uses
undedicated "servers", you could have 950 workstations and 50 servers at the
whopping cost of $1 a seat. But good luck on admin'n such a beast... =)
And, FWIW, the distributed printer services of SAMBA only exist if you have
Windows of some flavor (or would that be flavour?) running on the terminals
to which the printers are attached. Otherwise, you have to go with linux or
proprietary print servers scattered about the place. I believe that both the
DOS Network Client and LAN Manager Client are simple requesters with no
distributed features...
And, finally, for absolutely the best DOS support on a DOS/GEOS-based
network (assuming you have the money and expertise to throw at it), I find
Novell still to be unbeatable (not surprising, seeing how it began life as a
network for DOS clients. All other support has been built on top of that
base.).
PS: Love the Sokoban...
--
qui...@io.com - Jim Eikner at Illuminati Online in Austin, Texas
45 Mike Anderson
Am I correct in saying that what you want, is actually more like a
native GEOS BBS, however it should work by someone dialling your 1-800
number and connecting thru skipper, as if you were an ISP, but all the
user gets is what is on your machine???
qui...@io.com wrote:
>
> David Given <d...@tao.co.uk> mused...
>
> > $1000? You're kidding! Download Microsoft's SMB client for DOS (free, and
> And, finally, for absolutely the best DOS support on a DOS/GEOS-based
> network (assuming you have the money and expertise to throw at it), I find
> Novell still to be unbeatable (not surprising, seeing how it began life as a
> network for DOS clients. All other support has been built on top of that
> base.).
>
> PS: Love the Sokoban...
> --
>
> qui...@io.com - Jim Eikner at Illuminati Online in Austin, Texas
> http://www.io.com/~quiver
--
Looking for Freedom USA
tbcMike on the Breadbox Channel
GEOS and New Deal supporter
http://people.montana.com/~forfiv/index.htm
forfiv at montana dot com
C BLANK II
Am I correct in saying that what you want, is actually more like a
native GEOS BBS, however it should work by someone dialling your 1-800
number and connecting thru skipper, as if you were an ISP, but all the
user gets is what is on your machine???
****
Basically yes, but not a BBS. The ability to dial in to an inhouse number that
accesses an inhouse website for use of in house employes for compnay or
organization office users of the site. I envision an in one building or a
confined campus setup. If dialing in can be bypassed and a simple networked
server could be accessed for the 'web site', that would be best for what I am
thinking. I figure it must be easier than going through an isp for such a
thing.
It is already possible to access HTM files on the harddrive of your own
computer with skipper. Could web site pages not be created on a machine and
retained on that machine and viewed easily via a network setup? Would that not
allow any browser to access the site in house? If so, could not ND use this
communications method for sales to schools and other organizations, especially
when ISP charges are bypassed? What would it take to 'easily' implement this
all with NDO? Am I nuts?
qui...@io.com
> It is already possible to access HTM files on the harddrive of your own
> computer with skipper. Could web site pages not be created on a machine and
> retained on that machine and viewed easily via a network setup? Would that not
> allow any browser to access the site in house? If so, could not ND use this
> communications method for sales to schools and other organizations, especially
> when ISP charges are bypassed? What would it take to 'easily' implement this
> all with NDO? Am I nuts?
Ah, I see where you are headed now. ND already has ppp via Skipper. This
could be used for intranet connections as well as the usual external ones.
But neither DOS nor ND has the native ability to host such sessions. The
'easiest', although not cheapest solution might be to look at some of the
new network appliances that are emerging. I have seen a complete web server,
totally self-contained and pre-loaded with software that was about the size
of a pack of cigarettes. It would store the web pages, host the connections
and also provide the ability to process pages that used sever-side scripts.
The same (and much more flexible) solution could be had by installing the
previously mentioned linux system running Apache on your intranet.
But this 'easy' solution would require network interface cards to be
installed in each computer, the running of cabling, the configuration of
both the network and the web-server and, most importantly, the creation of
all the content (the web-pages). Given both the costs and the limited
content any one site could produce in-house, the expense of an ISP
(especially under a district-wide contract and with the ability of multiple
computers to share a single connection) begins to look pretty good...
C BLANK II
installed in each computer, the running of cabling, the configuration of
both the network and the web-server and, most importantly, the creation of
all the content (the web-pages). Given both the costs and the limited
content any one site could produce in-house, the expense of an ISP
(especially under a district-wide contract and with the ability of multiple
computers to share a single connection) begins to look pretty good...
OK, since dialing in is the norm for viewing web site pages anyway, might an
internal company/school phone extension be used to access the intranet host?
That would bypass the network problem, and bypass a separate phone number to be
paid for...or are extra phone numbers not that expensive?
Then the basic cost is in the hosting device and computer.
I am getting the feeling that this is more complicated than it first looked.
qui...@io.com
> OK, since dialing in is the norm for viewing web site pages anyway, might an
> internal company/school phone extension be used to access the intranet host?
> That would bypass the network problem, and bypass a separate phone number to be
> paid for...or are extra phone numbers not that expensive?
>
> Then the basic cost is in the hosting device and computer.
>
> I am getting the feeling that this is more complicated than it first looked.
Wow, I'm having a real hard time figuring out what you are working towards.
There are a number of simple and low-cost network schemes already in
existence ( with "simple" and "low-cost" being relative terms). It is always
a bad idea to try and re-invent the wheel, especially when there have been a
number of really bright wheel inventors at work on it before you. I am
always ready to let someone else figure out the hard parts first =)
And if I remember correctly, NewDeal was to be somehow central to your scheme.
NewDeal, if it invests in connectivity and standards, could indeed become a
viable "thin" client. Even as it is now (with Skippy and all) it is great in the
proper environment. But it is a client. A desktop. By definition that means
it leaves all the network heavy lifting to others better suited to the task.
So, I return to my original suggestions: install either a linux/SAMBA box
and connect to it through ND with either the MS or LAN Manager DOS client,
or go with a simple peer to peer like Lantastic. Linux, of course, offers
the Full Monty of inter/intranet services (your own ISP probably runs it)
but even Lantastic can share a modem connection with multiple users. I'm
sorry, but that is as simple as it can get and still be called a network.
And that is why the common solution is to plug in the phone-line, dial up an
ISP and let *their* Admin sweat the details...
C BLANK II
a bad idea to try and re-invent the wheel, especially when there have been a
number of really bright wheel inventors at work on it before you. I am
And that is why the common solution is to plug in the phone-line, dial up an
You may well be right. I am always looking for simpler and/or less expensive
ways to do things.
cla_...@yahoo.com
https://sites.google.com/site/iclasschoolview/