How To? Fast CPU Bug Ensemble 2.01
Chip Reinhardt
my big W2K partition. I can boot between the two using Partition Magic
PQBoot, no problem. The problem is the "Fast CPU bug" I've read about
on this forum. My CPU is a 2G AMD with 512M memory. DOS installs and
runs fine, but when I try to run Ensemble 2.01, I get an IMMEDIATE KR-01
error. Changing the systemsetup parameter in geos.ini to "false" does
NOT fix the problem.
Any other suggestions on how to get this to run? I've used Ensemble
since Version 1, and was a beta tester for Version 2.01. I really hate
to give it up, just because my computer is too fast. If that really is
the problem, is there a program or routine that I can load with Ensemble
to fool Ensemble into thinking it runs on a slower processor?
Chip Reinhardt
Pat
I used GWE 1.0 and can sympathize with you. Sometimes you have to logically
weigh the situation and ask yourself, "Is my PC circling a different solar
system than my GEOS?" The product was invented for low-end equipment and,
lets face it, PCs available today are 20% of the original price and 200
times more powerful than PCs that made sense when GEOS was viable 14 years
ago. OK, I'm embarrassed to say this but I will anyway. When I was a
toddler, I had this blanket that was worn with holes. It was my BLANKLY. My
parents had to finally hide it on me because I would have ended up an adult
sucking my thumb and dragging my BLANKLY. Not sure if this makes sense, but
there's a message in there for ya.
Good Luck getting your GWE to work on your half-GigaByte PC!
"Chip Reinhardt" <nc...@intrex.net> wrote in message
news:3E9B5B6B...@intrex.net...
John Howard
I don't know if this "fix" will work with GWE 2.01 but it works with newer
versions of NDO and Breadbox Ensemble... But you can DL and try CPUKiller from
http://www.cpukiller.com/products/cpukiller/index.html
John ;-)
Jens-Michael Gross
>
> I have a 1G pure MS-DOS 6.22 partition already to run GEOS 2.01, next to
> my big W2K partition. I can boot between the two using Partition Magic
> PQBoot, no problem. The problem is the "Fast CPU bug" I've read about
> on this forum. My CPU is a 2G AMD with 512M memory. DOS installs and
> runs fine, but when I try to run Ensemble 2.01, I get an IMMEDIATE KR-01
> error. Changing the systemsetup parameter in geos.ini to "false" does
> NOT fix the problem.
I have a small DOS tool called 'cache' (nice name :) ) I discovered it
yesterday (!).
With it you can switch teh CPU internal cache on and off, so you can
switch back your CPU to 133MHz (or 266 or so, depending on the FSB)
effective speed.
On my AMD K6/2-550 is drops the Landmark CPU speed from 7200 down to
700.
You can put the program call into the GEOS.BAT, so it switches the speed
down if you start GEOS and back if you leave.
I tried to upload the file top comp.binaries.geos, abut it doesn't seem
to appear there.
Drop me a line and I'll send the program to you and everyone else who
wants it.
Grossibaer
--
Take a class. Read a book. Don't expect computers to be simple, because
they are not.
Hans Voges
"Pat" <hotp...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> Good Luck getting your GWE to work on your half-GigaByte PC!
[broo-hahaha !]
Oh, Pat, you can't stand seeing them fiddling around with 2nd millenium
stuff, can you?
Well, in my opinion, your Blankly example doesn't match but,
aren't there zillions of educated and grown and serious adults out
in the field who are simply enjoying some hobboy, or leisure?
It can be clockwork trains, or hard LP's (that black sort we had before the
vinyl type came out; don't know the correct English word for those),
or historic shortwave radio receivers (with the valves) and whatever
else there's to be found.
Why not also some historical software?
I admit - no, I confess, in this context - that I myself sometimes
like to fire up the Windows partition on this rig here,
open the straight DOS mode, and play some 1992 "Lemmings"
for a round or two. (Not too long, though,
since a 320x200 graphics hasn't been written for
a 21" screen, obviously...)
As mentioned before: it's hobby, nostalgia, leisure...
Cinderella, eh? Whose foot fits the shoe?
Reg's,
Hans.
John Howard
Maybe you could UL it to TvaKatter - the current home of almost all things Geos?
John ;-)
Pat
> "Pat" <hotp...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
> It can be clockwork trains, or hard LP's (that black sort we had before
the
> vinyl type came out; don't know the correct English word for those),
> or historic shortwave radio receivers (with the valves) and whatever
> else there's to be found.
No problem with GEOS on a 386, for example. It just doesn't make sense
running it on iron that is not practical for a DOS program. Bring your
spanking new 3GHz PC back to the place you purchased it and cry, "This will
not run GEOS, my little DOS program" and your definitely going to get some
smirks from the techs. A big chrome hood ornament looks great on a 1940s
classic car, but its going to make you look like a dick head on a 2003
Honda.
I think that PC architecture has long since paid its debt to backward
compatibility with ancient software, and its time to jettison the past and
get on with better designed computers, that are cheaper and more reliable.
This does not in any way eliminate the hobbyists' options to run old
software on older hardware. In fact, it makes sense as a hobbyist to
maintain accuracy in matching components.
Bottom Line: If your PC is a mismatch for GEOS, don't blame the PC. Don't
blame GEOS. They are simply not a good match for each other.
Hans Voges
"Pat" <hotp...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> Bottom Line: If your PC is a mismatch for GEOS, don't blame the PC. Don't
> blame GEOS. They are simply not a good match for each other.
Agreed.
Funny thing is, that the better part of inquiries to
this group is related to compatibility problems of
Geos/Geos derivates <--> Windows NT/XP/2k etc. and
hardware above, say, 300 MHz...
I SHOULD have bought the whole stocklot of Global PCs
couple of weeks ago...
Thus, I could solve any hardware related Geos problems
in this community ;-))
Reg's,
Hans.
Ray Kopczynski
Thus, I could solve any hardware related Geos problems in this community ;-))
>>
I'll hazard a guess here that more of them will show up on eBay -- It's not
like they only have a "few" of them. LOL!
Ray
Jens-Michael Gross
>
> Hi Grossibaer,
>
> Maybe you could UL it to TvaKatter - the current home of almost all things Geos?
Well, it isn't exactly a GEOS program :)
But when I find my way to TK, I'll remember your suggestion :)
Chip Reinhardt
get the KR-01 System Error when loading Ensemble on my fast PC (2GHz CPU, 512M RAM).
However, after the install and going into setup, the install/setup hangs right after
the VGA Video Selection screen. If I change the geos.ini file to "false" for
continuing setup, Ensemble will freeze up with no mouse or keyboard.
Maybe there's too much memory, or I need to adjust FILES or BUFFERS settings? Any
tweak/setup ideas are welcome. Looks like I'm making progress, though!
Chip Reinhardt
Hans Voges
gwre...@aol.com (Ray Kopczynski) wrote:
>
> I'll hazard a guess here that more of them will show up on eBay -- It's not
> like they only have a "few" of them. LOL!
Sooner or later they'll re-appear, I'm sure, Ray.
The whole stocklot was some 200 units or so.
The selling agent, Dovebid, asked for $40 each
by that time.
I haven't any idea what the final price for the
whole lot might have been - $1 per lb., gross weight,
should have been somehow realistic...
Any rate, let's watch eBay on this subject
for the forthcoming weeks - there are goodies
to come!!
Some eBay related questions remain, of course:
Which category to seek first?
PC's? Ancient ones? Collector's items?
Steam driven hardware? Agricultural machinery?
It's not easy, sometimes...
Reg's,
Hans.
Ray Kopczynski
driven hardware? Agricultural machinery? >>
I have "saved" searches on eBay for:
geoworks
geos
global pc
globalpc
Jens-Michael Gross
>
> With the help of the CACHE program provided by Jens-Michael Grossibaer, I no longer
> get the KR-01 System Error when loading Ensemble on my fast PC (2GHz CPU, 512M RAM).
> However, after the install and going into setup, the install/setup hangs right after
> the VGA Video Selection screen. If I change the geos.ini file to "false" for
> continuing setup, Ensemble will freeze up with no mouse or keyboard.
>
> Maybe there's too much memory, or I need to adjust FILES or BUFFERS settings? Any
> tweak/setup ideas are welcome. Looks like I'm making progress, though!
The old GW Ensemble 2.x quietly died with more than 32MB XMS available.
There was an updated XMS.GEO driver available.
under Win you can limit the XMS/EMS memory reported to the DOS box,
under DOS, you can limite the XMS amount with some setting behind
HIMEM.SYS in config.sys, but this then is for the whole DOS session.
Chip Reinhardt
You have nailed it on the head, but now I need to find the solution. I can now run
Ensemble 2.0 with the /nomem parameter. I need to find a way to limit the amount of XMS
memory that Himem.sys allocates, so that Ensemble will run. I have been unable to find
the parameter anywhere. Maybe there is another great little program like your CACHE
program that could do this??
Chip Reinhardt
Hans Lindgren
Pat
"Hans Lindgren" <nospamhan...@abc.se> wrote in message news:3EA1231E...@abc.se...
Bob
the amount of memory to 16 MB. If you're running GEOS over DOS then 16 MB
may as well be 16 GB.
"Pat" <hotp...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:QHdoa.35443$cO3.2...@bgtnsc04-news.ops.worldnet.att.net...
Chip Reinhardt
One more thing...is there any way to get Ensemble 2.x up and running in Windows 2000? I had it running fine in Win98, but it will not work in Windows 2000.
Again, thanks to Jens-Michael and Hans for the assist!
Chip Reinhardt
Hans Lindgren
Congrats! Well, I envy you! I can't get it (Breadbox Ensemble) running on my computer, unless turning of the L1 and L2 cache in the BIOS setup of my computer. The problem is that I can only turn both off, not either of them. Maybe that is the problem. Maybe it does have something to to with Celeron, or is it just the BIOS or chipset?
BR,
Hans
Jens-Michael Gross
>
> Hi Chip!
>
> Congrats! Well, I envy you! I can't get it (Breadbox Ensemble) running
> on my computer, unless turning of the L1 and L2 cache in the BIOS
> setup of my computer. The problem is that I can only turn both off,
> not either of them. Maybe that is the problem. Maybe it does have
> something to to with Celeron, or is it just the BIOS or chipset?
I guess the BIOS.
Many of the recent processors do have first and second level cache on
the chip (and there's usually just one BIOS setting for both) and the
board 2nd level cache is degraded to 3rd level cache. So some clever
board manufacturers decied to not put any cache on the board at all
(reminds me of the first boards with EDO ram: no cache because 'the ram
has an internal cache'. later boards with external cache have been
faster) On these board you'll not see an option for the board cache
since there is none, and the two internal CPU caches are hit with one
option switch.)
Anyway: did you try cache.exe? (If you don't have it, mail me. I didn't
upload it to Tva Katter yet)
Hans Lindgren
Hans Lindgren schrieb:Hi Chip! Congrats! Well, I envy you! I can't get it (Breadbox Ensemble) running on my computer, unless turning of the L1 and L2 cache in the BIOS setup of my computer. The problem is that I can only turn both off, not either of them. Maybe that is the problem. Maybe it does have something to to with Celeron, or is it just the BIOS or chipset?I guess the BIOS. Many of the recent processors do have first and second level cache on the chip (and there's usually just one BIOS setting for both) and the board 2nd level cache is degraded to 3rd level cache. So some clever board manufacturers decied to not put any cache on the board at all (reminds me of the first boards with EDO ram: no cache because 'the ram has an internal cache'. later boards with external cache have been faster) On these board you'll not see an option for the board cache since there is none, and the two internal CPU caches are hit with one option switch.)
and you hit the nail with your last sentence...... I qoute you as this is what I can see is this is
my motherboard in a nutshell:
"On these board you'll not see an option for the board cache since there is none, and the two internal CPU caches are hit with one option switch.
Br,
Hans
Anyway: did you try cache.exe? (If you don't have it, mail me. I didn't upload it to Tva Katter yet)
BR,
Hans
Bob
news:3EA2D2C7...@grossibaer.de...
> Many of the recent processors do have first and second level cache on
> the chip (and there's usually just one BIOS setting for both) and the
> board 2nd level cache is degraded to 3rd level cache. So some clever
> board manufacturers decied to not put any cache on the board at all
> (reminds me of the first boards with EDO ram: no cache because 'the ram
> has an internal cache'. later boards with external cache have been
> faster) On these board you'll not see an option for the board cache
> since there is none, and the two internal CPU caches are hit with one
> option switch.)
Since the Pent. Pro L2 cache is part of the CPU's housing. Either using the
back side bus and discrete L2, or using Advanced Transfer Cache, or ATC. L3
cache is also included with AMD's K6-3, and K6-3+. So, L4 cache is either on
COAST or the Motherboard if using the above AMD chips, and L3 would be the
same if using an Intel chip from Pro and up.
Edward Di Geronimo Jr.
> Hi Chip!
>
> Congrats! Well, I envy you! I can't get it (Breadbox Ensemble) running
> on my computer, unless turning of the L1 and L2 cache in the BIOS setup
> of my computer. The problem is that I can only turn both off, not
> either of them. Maybe that is the problem. Maybe it does have something
> to to with Celeron, or is it just the BIOS or chipset?
Celeron's are Pentiums with less cache. There's probably only one level
of cache on the chip.
Ed
Bob
news:6E%oa.1468$rn.12...@newshog.newsread.com...
>
> Celeron's are Pentiums with less cache. There's probably only one level
> of cache on the chip.
>
> Ed
Yup. IIRC the origianl Celeron had no L1 cache. The "newer" ones have 128K.
Also IIRC the original Celeron was the answer to a sub $1,000 PC. Sales were
dropping and the sub $1,000 price point increased sales dramatically. The
Celeron was Intel's cheapo CPU. You could advertise fast speeds as that was
what sold the PC, and by leaving out L1/L2 cache, you could make a fast
cheap CPU for the sub $1K market. The Celeron is still Intel's answer to a
cheap PC and CPU.
Ray Kopczynski
was what sold the PC, and by leaving out L1/L2 cache, you could make a fast
cheap CPU for the sub $1K market. The Celeron is still Intel's answer to a
cheap PC and CPU. >>
Yup -- although isn't a tad ironic that the the current crop of Celeron's is
still massive overkill for the average-mainstream home-pc user. Of course that
is beating a dead horse... It's a guy thing for sure!
Ray
>Subject: Re: How To? Fast CPU Bug Ensemble 2.01
>From: "Bob" bob1...@attbi.com
>Date: 4/21/03 5:25 PM Pacific Daylight Time
>Message-id: <q_%oa.321572$Zo.64988@sccrnsc03>
Bob
news:20030422085330...@mb-m05.aol.com...
> Yup -- although isn't a tad ironic that the the current crop of Celeron's
is
> still massive overkill for the average-mainstream home-pc user. Of course
that
> is beating a dead horse... It's a guy thing for sure!
>
> Ray
it really isn't. try doing a network rollout of OS's and apps and CPU, FSB,
and memory bus speeds are NOT even close to too fast. there is a world of
difference using an 800 MHz or a 2.4 GHz. we just got some Celeron 1.2 GHz,
with only 128 MB RAM, and they are painfully slow. the "average" home user
is NOT typing letters. they are doing all sort of CPU intensive things.
Sound, video editing, and 3D gaming to name a few. the days of the "average"
home user playing Tetris, and typing are LONG over.
Hans Lindgren
BR,
Hans
Edward Di Geronimo Jr.
> it really isn't. try doing a network rollout of OS's and apps and CPU, FSB,
> and memory bus speeds are NOT even close to too fast. there is a world of
> difference using an 800 MHz or a 2.4 GHz. we just got some Celeron 1.2 GHz,
> with only 128 MB RAM, and they are painfully slow. the "average" home user
> is NOT typing letters. they are doing all sort of CPU intensive things.
> Sound, video editing, and 3D gaming to name a few. the days of the "average"
> home user playing Tetris, and typing are LONG over.
I gotta disagree Bob. I've got an 850mhz CPU which I've had for a few
years. There are only two times when my CPU feels slow:
1) 8 player games of Warcraft 3, and at that, it only becomes an issue
when everyone has a huge army.
So gaming doesn't really need the speed yet. Besides, most people get a
GameCube or a PlayStation for games. Take a look at sales figures some
time. What's considered a huge success for PC game sales would be
considered a flop if Nintendo had released it.
2) Compiling a large program such as Mozilla. That took 2-3 hours for a
full build when I tried it. Very few people are going to be attempting
that kind of stuff.
As to the Celeron's being slow, RAM and cache would be the issues. Or
perhaps you have some really bizare needs.
As to your video editing comments... the only people I've ever known to
do any video editing were the people on the campus tv station. My high
school had a class in Video Production, and it was fairly popular,
although mainly because a) it was something different and b) it could
fill an elective slot where the other alternatives weren't very
attractive. I don't think video editing will ever be a mainstream thing,
as it takes a lot of time to get something decent looking.
Ed
Bob
>
> I gotta disagree Bob. I've got an 850mhz CPU which I've had for a few
> years. There are only two times when my CPU feels slow:
well what can I say ed? I deal with this on a daily basis and the difference
is night and day depending on CPU speed, FSB speed, ata speed, amt. of cache
and ram. there is a world of difference between 800 MHz and 2 plus Ghz.
simple.
btw, you should be about ready to finish your college by now?? best of luck
with it. hope u make a good amount of money. I know your not foolish enough
to rely on GEOS! :)
Pat
to a 1.2GHZ processor about 3 months ago and the kid is already asking for
one that is 2.X GHz because his contemporary games are running slow. In
fact, my firend made his son demo the slowness and that was proof needed to
do the upgrade. In addition, video cards are constantly being upgraded as
the newer games force faster operastions and compliance with newer
technology like programmable shaders, et al. I guess everything is relative
but in the world of games, speed rules and functionality rule. Just my two
cents!
"Bob" <bob1...@attbi.com> wrote in message
news:CTApa.319539$OV.352732@rwcrnsc54...
Hans Lindgren
On 4/20/03 7:03 PM, Jens-Michael Gross wrote:
Your guess is correct! I have contacted the manufacturer of my motherboard (Jetway) and they confirm that it is the BIOS, which does not allow the L1 cache to be enable and the L2 cache to
be disable. The conclusion is that the cache.exe will not work for me. By turning the L1 and the L2 cache off in the BIOS setup, my computer works like a 386, it is "slow" even in BBX Ensemble.
So the case is closed. To run Breadbox Ensemble on this computer I have to wait for the fix for
this problem. I can disable both caches in the BIOS setup, but is not a viable solution as the computer runs very slow.
Best Regards,
Hans
Sargon
Ensemble will not Work (32MBfix installed) can any Help ???
Step-By-Step my English is not perfect!
Many Thanks!
--------------------------------------------------------------
In Deutsch währe die Hilfe noch besser, da mein Englisch zu vergessen ist.
Bob
news:ecDpa.206699$UR.20...@news.chello.at...
> PENTIUM4 2800Mhz nVidiaG4
>
> Ensemble will not Work (32MBfix installed) can any Help ???
> Step-By-Step my English is not perfect!
> Many Thanks!
reduce the speed of your CPU by about 2 GHz.
Chip Reinhardt
steps:
1. Installing the 32MB fix;
2. Installing the CACHE.EXE (courtesy of Jens-Michael!) program in the root
of my DOS partition, then running the command CACHE OFF at the DOS prompt
before loading Ensemble; AND
3. Changing the "continueSetup" parameter in Geos.ini to "false."
Chip Reinhardt
Pat
PROOF, CHECKMATE, END OF GAME.
ROTFL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Ray Kopczynski
PROOF, CHECKMATE, END OF GAME. >>
Hardly!! I equate that "Liars Figure & Figures Lie"
IF (and a very big IF here) you are one of the folks who give a rip about the
latest games -- feel free to overclock your machine and get the last erg of
performance out of it. More power to you (no pun intended).
For the vast majority of folks who need to do basic word processing & email --
the speed of the PC in and of itself is patently irrelevant. To say those folks
need that kind of horsepower is quite disingenuous IMO.
Ray
Philippe Dallemagne
I don't understand your statement here. You can always, very easily,
write a more bloated software that needs twice the resources than the
previous version, while introducing new bugs.
BTW, I had much fun playing simple games, like Pyramid, Solitaire,
Mahjong, etc. most of them running under Geos. Action games I can
remember of could run under DOS on a 200MHz K6 (ok, except POD which run
with DirectX).
My son is enthousiastic about the possibility of drawing on the screen
of a pen-based Psion while his voice is being recorded on the same
Psion. Still, the Psion is a 40 MHz ARM with 16 Mbytes.
Philippe.
--
Dr. Philippe Dallemagne
Philippe....@csem.ch
Project Manager
Centre Suisse d'Electronique et de Microtechnique
http://www.csem.ch
Jaquet-Droz 1
CH-2007 Neuchātel
Switzerland
Tel : +41 32 720 5521
Fax : +41 32 720 5720
Sargon
Bob
> << http://www.wired.com/news/games/0,2101,57464,00.html
> For the vast majority of folks who need to do basic word processing &
email --
> the speed of the PC in and of itself is patently irrelevant. To say those
folks
> need that kind of horsepower is quite disingenuous IMO.
>
> Ray
why do u assume that is what the "vast majority" of folks do? just the
opposite. the "vast majority" of home users are into 3D games, video, and
sound editing and recording. the PC is now an entertainment system for the
home. NOT a tired and boring place to do WP!
Edward Di Geronimo Jr.
SimCity 4 is by far the exception. It was really really rushed, and not
optimized at all. From what I hear, it's not really that playable even
on a 3ghz system. The game was just badly made all around, so don't use
that as a guideline of system requirements.
Ed
Edward Di Geronimo Jr.
> Its utter BS. My friend's 15 year old son just got his dad to upgrade his PC
> to a 1.2GHZ processor about 3 months ago and the kid is already asking for
> one that is 2.X GHz because his contemporary games are running slow. In
> fact, my firend made his son demo the slowness and that was proof needed to
> do the upgrade. In addition, video cards are constantly being upgraded as
> the newer games force faster operastions and compliance with newer
> technology like programmable shaders, et al. I guess everything is relative
> but in the world of games, speed rules and functionality rule. Just my two
> cents!
Graphics card and CPU are very different things. Yes, I've upgraded my
graphics card since I got this system (bought a friend's old card when
he upgraded). I'd even upgrade again if I had the money. The graphics
card matters a LOT more than the CPU when gaming.
If you want to run the latest games in the highest graphics level
possible, yes, you need a decent system. But I can play most modern
games at medium quality settings with a GeForce 2 and 850mhz.
Oh, I'd also venture to say that about half the people that play
Warcraft 3 online have a system significantly worse than mine, based on
the time it takes their computers to load the game.
Ed
John Howard
refutes Ray's? Otherwise it's just a never ending he said - he said.
Or maybe Ray can cite a study supporting his claim?
John ;-)
Bob
news:3EA84CD5...@breadbox.com...
> So, Bob - can you point me to a credible study that supports your claim
and
> refutes Ray's? Otherwise it's just a never ending he said - he said.
>
> Or maybe Ray can cite a study supporting his claim?
>
> John ;-)
ummm, just read trade journals. you'll find the evolution of the home pc has
drastically changed. personally, i don't even have a WP except for WordPad.
why would i wish to do work on my home PC? it is onlu used for
entertainment. that's what sells PC's, that's why folks buy PC's.
Pat
A cute and tired, over used phrase. Ray, you can do better then that. <g>
Face it, box office sales are not high enough to make a profit for the
majority of films. That is why there are so many games based on action
films, the most peoular Hollywood genre.
>> IF (and a very big IF here) you are one of the folks who give a rip about
the
latest games -- feel free to overclock your machine and get the last erg of
performance out of it. >>
Many do, however, the game developers are pushing that envelope so fast that
you can't overclock your way into the sweet spot of performance for very
long. For example, DirectX 9 is now on the street. You need a special video
card to enable the primitives at the hardware level to get great performance
out of a ATI Radeon high end card.
>> For the vast majority of folks who need to do basic word processing &
email --
the speed of the PC in and of itself is patently irrelevant. To say those
folks
need that kind of horsepower is quite disingenuous IMO. >>
Word Processing is becoming as popular as putting a stamp on an envelope and
mailing someone a letter. Email has supplanted it. However, you can do email
for a brief time during the day, unless you are at work. The remainder is:
(1) Surfing the Web.
(2) Audio MP3 files, etc.
(3) Games.
(4) Video VCD, SVCD, increasingly DVD authoring.
The multimedia and 3D experience that is enhanced through broadband
communications is only made richer by hardware that off loads software. This
is the gem that people discover whilst using a broadband connection. And
with Windows XP, the software is there to take advantage of the content that
is like ripe fruit hanging from heavy laden trees for the picking.
Is GEOS ever going to accomplish this?
Nooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo!
Pat
"Philippe Dallemagne" <p...@csem.ch> wrote in message
news:3EA78E27...@csem.ch...
Sure you understand my statement, you are just pretending not to. Its clear
as the nose on your face, games push the hardware envelope and that in turn
pushes gamers to want upgrades and eventually more contemporary computers.
Case in point is the XBOX, Nintendo, and Playstation. All there to satisfy
the gamers craving. Even the PC, in many cases, has been unbable to service
every requirement. But that delta keeps closing as PCs get faster and better
at graphics.
Regards bloat and buggy code, the Windows 2000 kernel, as exhibited by the
Windows XP implementation is so far ahead of the Windows 3.x and 9.x/ME
technology that its not worth discussing. What you call bloat is just more
optional code that you can turn ON or OFF, use or not use. Nobody wants the
majority but its all there for the picking and every option is needed by
someone, somewhere in the world. This is a concept that a GEOS user can't
grasp. My God, so many options, how decadent Comrade! Especially in the
Goolag of GEOS.
Maybe your son would become spoiled if he were exposed long enough to the
pleasures of a fast PC running Windows XP and a contemporary game. All you
have to do is go to an ACM SigGraph show or Comdex to see what is possible
with modern 3D graphics and the joys of using software that can transform
that energy into a more believeable simulation.
Philippe Dallemagne
Pat wrote:
>
> Hardly!! I equate that "Liars Figure & Figures Lie" >>
>
> A cute and tired, over used phrase. Ray, you can do better then that. <g>
> Face it, box office sales are not high enough to make a profit for the
> majority of films. That is why there are so many games based on action
> films, the most peoular Hollywood genre.
>
> >> IF (and a very big IF here) you are one of the folks who give a rip about
> the
> latest games -- feel free to overclock your machine and get the last erg of
> performance out of it. >>
>
> Many do, however, the game developers are pushing that envelope so fast that
> you can't overclock your way into the sweet spot of performance for very
> long. For example, DirectX 9 is now on the street. You need a special video
> card to enable the primitives at the hardware level to get great performance
> out of a ATI Radeon high end card.
>
> >> For the vast majority of folks who need to do basic word processing &
> email --
> the speed of the PC in and of itself is patently irrelevant. To say those
> folks
> need that kind of horsepower is quite disingenuous IMO. >>
>
> Word Processing is becoming as popular as putting a stamp on an envelope and
> mailing someone a letter. Email has supplanted it. However, you can do email
> for a brief time during the day, unless you are at work. The remainder is:
>
> (1) Surfing the Web.
Yes, ok.
> (2) Audio MP3 files, etc.
Better use dedicated hardware for that (portable audio players).
> (3) Games.
Buy a dedicated console (even if you always buy the latest model, you
would spend less than upgrading your PC every 6 months). And you won't
have to fight with your #&{一^ Windblows.
> (4) Video VCD, SVCD, increasingly DVD authoring.
Very averge on a Win machine. Ok on a Mac. Here you make a point : you
definitely need a personal computer to do video editing.
> The multimedia and 3D experience that is enhanced through broadband
> communications is only made richer by hardware that off loads software. This
> is the gem that people discover whilst using a broadband connection.
From which commercials did you paste it ?
> And
> with Windows XP, the software is there to take advantage of the content that
> is like ripe fruit hanging from heavy laden trees for the picking.
The content : let me laugh about the content. In general, it is so poor
that their producer must add tons of useless moving yuyus to attract
simple-minded consumers that will eventually be over-billed (ok I
disgress).
> Is GEOS ever going to accomplish this?
> Nooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo!
No, just a different experience : think by yourself, put your thoughts
in concrete words or images. You might call it content, too.
Philippe.
Pat
Not every person is at the extreme level of play but the trend is to get
hardware to keep up with the more demanding software play and that "pushing
the envelope" is accelerating as competition heats things up. Right now, I
can guarantee you that developers are going to trump SimCity 4 and make it
look lethargic by comparison.
I am merely holding up mirror to the truth!
John Howard
John ;-)
Bob
> Ok - so I'll take that answer as a "No, I can't cite a credible study."
>
> John ;-)
If u wish. The facts are there u just choose to ignore them. Living is easy
with eyes closed, misunderstanding all you see. PC sales are driven by the
fact that folks use them for ENTERTAINMENT. NOT for "work."
John Howard
I agree that sales are pitched to audio, video and gamers. Hey, if I wanted to
sell the latest stuff with the highest profit margin, that's exactly who I'd
pitch to. And I'd try to convince folks that they need to spend their money on
my product to do what "everyone who is in, is doing". Appeal to the bigger,
faster, more powerful. Been going on in the computer trade ever since it started.
And, remembering back to Marketing 101, the product life cycle, PCs are in the
mature stage. In this stage you sell upgrades. You convince folks that their
old models won't do the new stuff. That's where the trade rags are today. New
stuff.
So my request for a survey is not facetious, or snotty. I haven't been able to
locate anything that attempts to show how the broad spectrum of PC users use
their PCs. I think it's a reasonable question and without data the arguement
gets none of us anywhere.
John ;-)
Ray Kopczynski
NOT for "work." >>
Umm - OK -- surfing the web while at work falls into your definition I guess...
Here's more typical usage (survey results) from my perspective:
http://www.cityofseattle.net/tech/indicators/residential_survey_report.pdf
Ray
Bob
from your source:
Respondents are most likely to use the computer for personal
communications (97%), researching hobbies or personal interests (96%),
gathering information about products or services (95%), finding news
about travel or travel arrangements (94%), and learning about current
events (93%), and doing work-related tasks (92%). Residents are least
likely to use the computer for participating in chat rooms (71%), starting
or
maintaining a business (75%), or contacting elected officials (79%).
Looks like they do fun stuff to me ;)
John Howard
killer app!
John ;-)
Ray Kopczynski
to me that 100% of the items listed below do not require the massive horepower
& game-centric machines promulgated via the marketing today...
Ray
>Subject: Re: How To? Fast CPU Bug Ensemble 2.01
>From: "Bob" bob1...@attbi.com
>Date: 4/26/03 6:22 AM Pacific Daylight Time
>Message-id: <4Kvqa.653424$S_4.698248@rwcrnsc53>
Ray Kopczynski
Geos -- The O/S for those who have simpler needs and hardware...
http://profiles.yahoo.com/geoholic
Pat
> > The multimedia and 3D experience that is enhanced through broadband
> > communications is only made richer by hardware that off loads software.
This
> > is the gem that people discover whilst using a broadband connection.
>
> From which commercials did you paste it ?
Here is a partial list for GEOS to tackle when 32 bit comes out ;)
http://terraserver.microsoft.com/
Philippe Dallemagne
:-)
I was just talking about the terms you are using here :
- the "multimedia and 3D experience",
- "enhanced",
- "broadband communications",
- "richer",
- "hardware that offloads the software",
- "this is the gem"
I may have already heard them on TV or papers adds. Usually, you only
get burnt once.
Philippe.
Pat
two-way video phone communication works. Streaming MPEG4 movies work when
the remote server is able to handle the stream. All of the negatives
associated with slow data are lifted. The one big block is the speed of
servers to keep up and the ability of the Internet to handle the load.
Multicasting as first implemented via MBONE is slowly being deployed. Other
issues are being addressed. The clients and the OS and the apps are ahead of
the infrastructure but many times all the stars line up and it works as
advertised. LOL!!!
"Philippe Dallemagne" <p...@csem.ch> wrote in message
news:3EACD9A1...@csem.ch...