CP/M UCSD P-System adaptable system available
Randy McLaughlin
available for download from my site.
Please note this requires technical skills to install.
I have a DOS version that runs form a DOS windows if all you want to do is
play.
The disk images were designed for 8 inch SSSD. Since they are FM encoded I
decided to post them as a straight dump. Most PC's can not write FM data.
I may post Teledisk images later
These files just need to be written straight out to a CP/M disk and the
booter program modified for your system. It does not require 8 inch disks
but it does require technical skills.
Randy
www.s100-manuals.com
Herb Johnson
OK, out of curiousity I went to your site. Your Pascal page lists
several downloads links. Each download link has a one-line description.
Each link on your page goes directly to one file to be downloaded. None
of those descriptions match your descriptions above, either for CP/M or
DOS. There is no technical description whatsoever on that page for
anything. Your notes above are more informative but just barely, and of
course most readers of your Pascal page will not know what you posted
here.
I have "technical skills" but it would be no small project for ME to
sort out what would be necessary to load your CP/M UCSD files - once I
identified where they were. I suggest that YOU sort it all out and post
that info on your Web page. If you have more clues on your site about
use of these files, pointers to them would help. For all I know they
are in binary - a literal copy of tracks and sectors, from some disk.
Or maybe they are just dumps of each sector. I have no clue from your
descriptions, my questions are longer than your descriptions!
Herb Johnson
Herbert R. Johnson, voice 609-771-1503, New Jersey USA
<a href="http://retrotechnology.com/herbs_stuff"> web site</a>
<a href="http://retrotechnology.net/herbs_stuff"> domain mirror</a>
** hjoh...@njcc.com and njcc.com/~hjohnson are EXPIRED **
my email address: herbjohnson ATT comcast DOTT net
if no reply, wait & try: hjohnson AAT retrotechnology DOTT com
"Herb's Stuff": old Mac, SGI, 8-inch floppy drives
S-100 IMSAI Altair computers, docs, by "Dr. S-100"
Randy McLaughlin
news:1110488788.7...@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com...
Maybe only because I posted it but they make sense to me:
The link CPMADAPT downloads the CP/M Adaptable P-System package I received.
The bin files are in a format that should be usable with Dave Dunfield's
disk transfer work. They were created by dumping them with Anadisk. The
disks use 8" SSSD with an interleave of 1:1. The 1st 128 bytes come from
track 00 sector 1 the next 128 from the 2nd sector through the first track
and continued through track 76. It is a simple straight forward method.
The P-System file structure is such that you can copy to any other media
(and interleave) as long as the booter file (included) describes the layout,
the P-System sees everything as a linear array of blocks.
I am posting Teledisk images but the problem is very few people can write FM
formatted disks.
As for bringing up the system I only have the disks no documentation :-(
As for DOS there is a link called psystem that downloads the DOS verion of
the system ready to run.
The source files are fragmented because there is no single archive of the
p-system source available. The pieces posted are the pieces I have.
I have posted an old P-System manual that should help people get started.
Hopefully I will be able to add more soon (I have two more p-system packages
to add).
My goals here are:
Archive the P-System source files.
Archive as many different implementations as possible.
Provide a base for other to implements the P-system on their hardware.
I will add some of these notes to the page but I will leave the descriptions
and links for the files in the format they are already in (but maybe
re-order them).
In the future I will re-do the readme files in the archives to better
describe them, I'll start with the CP/M archive.
If anyone has other files or documentation let me know.
To use the P-system you should understand it is a totally different OS than
CP/M (or DOS).
If anyone has trouble understanding a page please let me know, I do want
everything understood. Adding a description paragraph may help this page
but for me the links do download what the link describes.
Randy
www.s100-manuals.com
Moll
> My goals here are:
>
> Archive the P-System source files.
>
> Archive as many different implementations as possible.
>
> Provide a base for other to implements the P-system on their hardware.
>
> I will add some of these notes to the page but I will leave the descriptions
> and links for the files in the format they are already in (but maybe
> re-order them).
>
> In the future I will re-do the readme files in the archives to better
> describe them, I'll start with the CP/M archive.
>
> If anyone has other files or documentation let me know.
>
>
> To use the P-system you should understand it is a totally different OS than
> CP/M (or DOS).
>
> If anyone has trouble understanding a page please let me know, I do want
> everything understood. Adding a description paragraph may help this page
> but for me the links do download what the link describes.
>
>
> Randy
> www.s100-manuals.com
>
>
I am only familiar with "Apple Pascal" which I believe is an
implementation of the P-system?
Moll.
Randy McLaughlin
news:XR3Yd.68292$t46.6874@trndny04...
Yes, my page includes a listing of the P-System interpreter for the Apple
Pascal.
The P-System is a pseudo machine (ever heard of JAVA). Western Digital
later came out with a "real" P-System (P-System III). The P-system allows
programmers to write code on one machine and have it run on others no matter
what the platform.
I am no P-System expert, just someone interested in it. I've used it on
S100 systems, PC's, and NEC APC's. I may create a page explaining what
little I know of it.
Randy
www.s100-manuals.com
Jay Maynard
> The bin files are in a format that should be usable with Dave Dunfield's
> disk transfer work. They were created by dumping them with Anadisk. The
> disks use 8" SSSD with an interleave of 1:1. The 1st 128 bytes come from
> track 00 sector 1 the next 128 from the 2nd sector through the first track
> and continued through track 76. It is a simple straight forward method.
> The P-System file structure is such that you can copy to any other media
> (and interleave) as long as the booter file (included) describes the layout,
> the P-System sees everything as a linear array of blocks.
I can make these disks usable with SIMH/Altair easily enough...but what's on
them? Is it a CP/M filesystem, or is it something different?
(My copy of CP/M for SIMH has been modified to make F: and G: IBM
3740-compatible. If it's just a CP/M filesystem, I can then copy the
contents to a regular SIMH disk, and off we go.)
I guess I'm missing somethign basic: just what is the adaptable P-system?
nos...@nouce.bellatlantic.net
<ra...@nospam.com> wrote:
>> I am only familiar with "Apple Pascal" which I believe is an
>> implementation of the P-system?
>>
>> Moll.
I've used the Apple][ version, NS* MDS version, both used and have it
for PDP-11 (LSI-11) somewhere. All look the same and were a great
step up for program development. All three suffered from one problem
disk space though the PDP11 version was least cramped (used 8"SSSD
RX01) with 250k per disk wher the Apple and NS* disks were far
smaller (NS* was 89k and Apple was 130k). Running an edit, compile
and run on a 48k NS system was very difficult with less than three
drives (also the max number of drives for the SD MDS).
I learned Pascal on that NS* horizon in '79. Took a data structure
course at SUNY and they were useing a univac 1180 and 29 cardpunches.
I asked the prof if I could use a micro and present the work and his
first words were "your kidding, I don't have time for this!". So next
class I came early and set up a H19, NS*crate and demonstrated Pascal
P-system right there. demonstrated by editing compiling and
installing "gotoxy" which was required to have direct cursor
positioning for the screen editor. No teco there. Needless to say I
not only used it but I had others wanting time on it as it was far
easier to edit-compile than the old 29 punch. Next time I used a
integrated development environment it was TurboPascal.
After that in late 80 I got involved in a cross platform software
project and the platforms were TRS-80 (LDOS), Apple][ (both with and
without the softcard) and Multibus running Z80 and CP/M. The one
language that ran exactly the same on all four was UCSD Psystem
running Pascal. We could not achieve commonality with Basic and there
were few other choices for all four.
>The P-System is a pseudo machine (ever heard of JAVA). Western Digital
;) I sorta had to laugh when I first heard the base Java spec.
>later came out with a "real" P-System (P-System III). The P-system allows
>programmers to write code on one machine and have it run on others no matter
>what the platform.
I got to play with one, did they ever get the bugs out of the
hardware?
Allison
nos...@nouce.bellatlantic.net
<jmay...@thebrain.conmicro.cx> wrote:
>I can make these disks usable with SIMH/Altair easily enough...but what's on
>them? Is it a CP/M filesystem, or is it something different?
Different. The P-system was a complete enviornment including the
files system. The underlying IO could vary widely.
>I guess I'm missing somethign basic: just what is the adaptable P-system?
What I haven't seen is enough docs for it. Theres one question in my
mind and thats, how does it talk to hardware and know what
track/sector/side conventions are to be used??
For example SSSD 8" is 128 bytes sector and 26 sectors to a track..
You can't just copy that to a NS* DD as linear sectors and have it run
with 512byte sectors and 10(SS)/20(DS) per track. That also leaves
aside that the NS* is a memory mapped dumb TTL controller and
"*most*" 8"sssd controllers were 1771/1791 IO mapped. So there has
to be a bit of "installation and configuration" stuff.
Allison
Randy McLaughlin
news:7pk131tn8drd3thvm...@4ax.com...
Actually you can just about copy to any disk format. The only caveat being
like CP/M there are two parts to the disks:
CP/M has a boot-strap portion (system tracks) then the CP/M portion starting
with the directory.
The P-System also CAN have a boot area followed by the P-System volume.
The P-system volume probably needs to be aligned to a track boundary just
like CP/M.
The P-System volume size is defined by "Zeroing" it under the P-System filer
that asks how many 512 byte blocks it contains.
It should be a snap to copy the files I provided to any disk that supports
CP/M.
In the CPMADAPT archive is another archive called booter, it contains the
CP/M code that ties the CP/M BIOS to the CP/M adaptable system.
Jay - just download the archive and look at it, it should not be difficult
to adapt to the emulator.
Everyone interested download the archive and look at the booter code it is
fairly self-descriptive.
Just to make it perfectly clear the CPMADAPT archive uses a real CP/M
system's BIOS to bring up the P-System.
The problem is the P-System checks all legal drives for diskettes, CP/M
doesn't like trying to read from drives with nothing in them. You end up
needing to modify the BIOS to return immediately if there is no disk in the
Drive. I'll try to get the details and post them.
Randy
www.s100-manuals.com
Randy McLaughlin
news:hmj131debpk4e34te...@4ax.com...
Do you still have any copies of the NS PASCAL-S? I have the double density
version I will be posting soon.
I never had a WD Pascal system, I have no idea about problems. I have a
manual for it around bu that's all.
Randy
Randy McLaughlin
I'm in the process of updating the descriptions on my website.
I looked at the logs and I'm happy to say lots of people are downloading
copies.
Any questions just ask here or email me at randy at s100-manuals dot com.
I expanded the readme files on psystem & CPMADAPT:
psystem readme:
DOS hosted psystem use:
Unzip the files into the folder you want to use.
It is DOS based and directly accesses the floppy drives. This
creates an error under windows, just click on ignore.
There is no exit from the P-System, when you are done either
close the window running the P-System or from DOS turn off the
computer.
Start by executing the file psystem (either from command line
or double clicking on it).
It supports dynamically mounted volumes #14..#19, volume psystem.vol
gets mounted on #14 by default. The volumes can be specified on the
command line and are mounted in order.
To mount or dis-mount volumes from the psystem run the dosfiler.code
program:
Type 'X' from the main menu to execute, then type 'psystem:dosfiler'
or '#14:dosfiler'.
If anyone has more or better instructions let me know.
CPMADAPT readme:
The .BIN files are straight dumps of the CP/M disks.
The disks are 8 inch SSSD images (77 tracks, 26 128 byte sectors).
The files are simple sector sequential format.
The .BIN files can be written to other formats but track alignment
for the beginning of the P-System volumes is still needed.
The .VOL files are extracted P-System volumes.
The BOOTER folder contains the CP/M boot code, it should be written
to a CP/M disk.
Randy
www.s100-manuals.com
Jay Maynard
> The disks are 8 inch SSSD images (77 tracks, 26 128 byte sectors).
> The files are simple sector sequential format.
>
> The .BIN files can be written to other formats but track alignment
> for the beginning of the P-System volumes is still needed.
Uhm, okkay...so does this mean that I can just write the existing 26
sector/track images to a 32 sector/track image, treating the disk as one
long array of sectors, and the P-system will do the Right Thing? Or do I
need to make sure that track 2, sector 1 winds up at track 2, sectr 1 and
then goes from there? or what?
> The BOOTER folder contains the CP/M boot code, it should be written
> to a CP/M disk.
This one's easy, at least.
Does the P-system need to know that the disks it's going on are bigger than
3740 format in order to make use of them? SIMH can use 255 tracks of 32
128-byte sectors, a big increase in capacity.
I'm planning to build a set of disk images that can be run as-is on SIMH
with an unmodified BIOS, so folks can use the stock pacakge and just jump
right in.
nos...@nouce.bellatlantic.net
The original and only copy I have for the NS is the Single density
version. The disti is two disks and it boots native on the NS* SD
controller. The later DD version is the same but due to more space it
was suppied with more stuff on disk.
>I never had a WD Pascal system, I have no idea about problems. I have a
>manual for it around bu that's all.
I got use use one. It was fast but the hardware still had teething
pains and was not rock solid. It should have been as the WD13 chip
set was the heart of the Alpha Microsystems and before that DEC LSI-11
but I suspect the hardware warpped around it was not "done yet".
Allison
Randy McLaughlin
news:slrnd323jt....@thebrain.conmicro.cx...
The P-System looks like it just uses one track for booting. I assume the
1st 26 sectors go on the the 1st track (track 00) and the from the second
track (track 01) you should put 32 sectors at a time.
Start with the default volume size 494 (76*26*128/512 = 494) later you can
take a blank disk and Zero it to 608 (76*32*128/512).
Since your disks store more than 8" SSSD you can just leave the size alone
until you have it working.
Keep us informed.
Randy
www.s100-manuals.com
Randy McLaughlin
news:co3231555o0qttbtg...@4ax.com...
Could you make copies for the NorthStar Archive?
http://dunfield.s100-manuals.net has a growing archive, an emulator that
includes SD support, and software to transfer disk images to/from a PC.
You may even find software you want there. If you have ANY software not
listed please donate it. You can email it to me as an attachment to randy
at s100-manuals dot com.
Randy
www.s100-manuals.com
nos...@nouce.bellatlantic.net
<ra...@nospam.com> wrote:
>Actually you can just about copy to any disk format. The only caveat being
>like CP/M there are two parts to the disks:
>
>CP/M has a boot-strap portion (system tracks) then the CP/M portion starting
>with the directory.
It appeas to require the CP/M BIOS to boot and run. How else would it
communicate with disk, terminal and printer? The secondary boot does
not contain that code as hardware varies greatly.
>The P-System also CAN have a boot area followed by the P-System volume.
>
>The P-system volume probably needs to be aligned to a track boundary just
>like CP/M.
Yes it can and does.
>The P-System volume size is defined by "Zeroing" it under the P-System filer
>that asks how many 512 byte blocks it contains.
That set max volume size. Booter passes the basic disk structure.
>It should be a snap to copy the files I provided to any disk that supports
>CP/M.
I tried it under MyZ80, crashed and burned. Didn't like that the
default disks are 8mb.
I'm going to try and run it on the amproLB+ the copy will take a bit
as I have to modify aputer (my ampro sector tool) to write the files
from start point to eof as sequential blocks.
>In the CPMADAPT archive is another archive called booter, it contains the
>CP/M code that ties the CP/M BIOS to the CP/M adaptable system.
I expect that you'd end up with a CP/M system disk (usual system
tracks) and sub filed to run booter and the rest of the disk is
P-system or maybe it asks for another disk at that point. However if
it called bios warm boot.. you going to need that boot disk in the
drive again. If I get it running on the ampro the next crate to try
it on the the room booted system (boots all of the usual system track
stuff from rom and then logs a phantom disk.).
>Just to make it perfectly clear the CPMADAPT archive uses a real CP/M
>system's BIOS to bring up the P-System.
To boot it. I suspect or hope there is some kind of installer that
integrates the CP/M bios to the result. Or it will only boot from a
valid CP/M system disk. There are many unanswered questions.
>The problem is the P-System checks all legal drives for diskettes, CP/M
>doesn't like trying to read from drives with nothing in them. You end up
>needing to modify the BIOS to return immediately if there is no disk in the
>Drive. I'll try to get the details and post them.
This will hang at least two of my older clunkers, they will wait
forever until there is a disk in the drive . They have to see index
pulses to get the WD1793 to time out. Those have no hardware
timeout and stall the CPU waiting for data so you can't run a timeout
loop on the cpu. I'd have to add a simple 555 timer to force those
out of stall on data after 10sec. Something to watch for as more than
a few controllers do stall(forces CPU into wait state until data
arrives) on data rather than testing in a loop as a timing thing.
I've not run pascal P-system under CP/M. By then I'd gone to a
unique design softsector 765 based controller and moved to
JRT Pascal and later Turbopascal.
The other systems I've run the P-system under were either full native
(NS* Horizon standard config). The LSI-11 P-system assumed RX01 disk
, DLV-11 console port and printer at standard configured addresses
common to all DEC hardware. I might add that second party hardware
for DEC system always had the same IO structures and would work with
DEC software drivers.
Allison
Randy McLaughlin
news:Ri8Yd.20178$Q83....@bignews5.bellsouth.net...
<snip>
> The P-System looks like it just uses one track for booting. I assume the
> 1st 26 sectors go on the the 1st track (track 00) and the from the second
> track (track 01) you should put 32 sectors at a time.
>
> Start with the default volume size 494 (76*26*128/512 = 494) later you can
> take a blank disk and Zero it to 608 (76*32*128/512).
>
> Since your disks store more than 8" SSSD you can just leave the size alone
> until you have it working.
>
> Keep us informed.
>
>
> Randy
> www.s100-manuals.com
I just checked and it looks like the disks were shipped with tiny volumes,
probably so they could be transfered to 5.25" SSSD disks.
The volume size is 153 blocks (76.5K) small enough to fit on 80K disk with
3.5K available for boot-strap.
I'm going to use a hex editor to see if there are any goodies hidden behind
the Pascal volumes.
The 88sys disk is 494 blocks (8" SSSD size) and has utilities to change disk
size and interleave.
Randy
www.s100-manuals.com
Randy McLaughlin
<snip>
> I just checked and it looks like the disks were shipped with tiny volumes,
> probably so they could be transfered to 5.25" SSSD disks.
>
> The volume size is 153 blocks (76.5K) small enough to fit on 80K disk with
> 3.5K available for boot-strap.
>
> I'm going to use a hex editor to see if there are any goodies hidden
> behind the Pascal volumes.
>
> The 88sys disk is 494 blocks (8" SSSD size) and has utilities to change
> disk size and interleave.
>
>
> Randy
> www.s100-manuals.com
I just checked and yes there ARE hidden disk images after the 80K images.
There are assemblers for different processors and more.
I'm not sure what all is there but I'll see about creating a new set of
image files.
Randy
www.s100-manuals.com
Randy McLaughlin
news:7f52311an2isms6g9...@4ax.com...<snip>
When you first bring it up under CP/M it is recommended that you put disks
in all drives to prevent errors and lock-ups.
Randy
www.s100-manuals.com
CBFalconer
>
... snip ...
>
> If anyone has trouble understanding a page please let me know, I do
> want everything understood. Adding a description paragraph may help
> this page but for me the links do download what the link describes.
Take a look at my download page(s). It includes a 4dos script,
mkindex2, which prepares the index page from 4dos file
descriptions. I keep an image of my site on this machine, so
whenever I make a change I rerun the script, and then upload the
changed files and index file.
--
Chuck F (cbfal...@yahoo.com) (cbfal...@worldnet.att.net)
Available for consulting/temporary embedded and systems.
<http://cbfalconer.home.att.net> USE worldnet address!
Randy McLaughlin
I extracted all of the volumes I could find and posted the updated archive
(12 .VOL files).
Yes everyone needs to download it again.
The readme in the archive tells you this but to repeat in other words:
To create real disks take the boot track from the .BIN file (3328 bytes) and
append the desired .VOL file to it.
If your boot track is not 3328 bytes long adjust as needed to make sure the
.VOL is on a track boundary.
Randy
www.s100-manuals.com
HansO
>I extracted all of the volumes I could find and posted the updated archive
>(12 .VOL files).
>
>
>Randy
>www.s100-manuals.com
>
Thank you! Much appreciated work you do to keep otherwise lost UCSD Pascal
material alive!
Hans: http://www.hansotten.com
nos...@nouce.bellatlantic.net
<ra...@nospam.com> wrote:
>> The original and only copy I have for the NS is the Single density
>> version. The disti is two disks and it boots native on the NS* SD
>> controller. The later DD version is the same but due to more space it
>> was suppied with more stuff on disk.
>
>Could you make copies for the NorthStar Archive?
Two problems. I only have the DD controller running though, SD is
easily done. The other is media, I'm running out and hand't planned
on purchasing any. I guess I could do some kind of disk image
but being hard sector the reconstitution would be limited to someone
with a working SD NS*. Generally speaking I've never needed to
copy an image of NS disks to any system once I stopped using it
back in '80. Back then there was nothing I had as NS* hard sector
that I didn't have equal or better as CP/M soft sector.
Allison
nos...@nouce.bellatlantic.net
The old NS* solution was the same to keep it from marking the drive as
not there.
However appendix A of the North Star* Pascal Version 1 System
Reference manual has some of the gory details. The NS* version was
a repritnt of the UCSD issued version, least the early ones were. It
covers up to V1.5 of the P-system.
One thing I'd like to do is get it running on the DD controller or get
a copy that does.
Allison
Randy McLaughlin
news:pqb3315okfl3l5vuu...@4ax.com...
I have the NS DD version and should be posting it this weekend.
I have media and can send some to you but Dave Dunfield's software allows
you to copy the disk image to a PC. It will transfer all of the standard NS
disk formats.
We are interested in as many different program/OS's of different versions as
possible.
If you have any questions email me at randy at s100-manuals dot com.
Randy
www.s100-manuals.com
Robert J. Stevens
I've got a bunch of Pascal Floppies from my N* Horizon Sytem. Hope they'll be
readable
One says "Shipped Pascal Backup" the Other says "Supersoft assoc Tiny Pascal
for Northstar"
Got two A4 Controllers that I need to get running as well
Bob in Wisconsin
Barry Watzman
hard to find. I have a Northstar controller, and of course any 5.25"
drive will work, but no media.
Randy McLaughlin
news:U8rYd.932$VV6...@fe1.columbus.rr.com...
> Anyone have any hard sector floppies that they don't want? They are hard
> to find. I have a Northstar controller, and of course any 5.25" drive
> will work, but no media.
I saw a couple of boxes for $15 each on ebay, I don't know if they are still
there.
Randy
www.s100-manuals.com
Barry Watzman
Nashua brands, NOS boxes still shrink wrapped. He's had at least 5
boxes for sale so far, at $15 per box. The key search word is North
Star (not sure if it was two words or one word). Some are on auction
with a $14.95 starting bid, others are "buy it now" for $15.
Thanks to Warren Yogi for E-Mailing me when he saw that.
Also, Pat Swayne, of the old "Heath[kit] User's Group" actually had some
new ones made last year by a disk company. Don't know if these are gone
or not, he was getting about $1.90 per disk for them, as I recall.
nos...@nouce.bellatlantic.net
<Watzma...@neo.rr.com> wrote:
>Yes, I just got one of those boxes. The seller has had both 3M and
>Nashua brands, NOS boxes still shrink wrapped. He's had at least 5
>boxes for sale so far, at $15 per box. The key search word is North
>Star (not sure if it was two words or one word). Some are on auction
>with a $14.95 starting bid, others are "buy it now" for $15.
>
>Thanks to Warren Yogi for E-Mailing me when he saw that.
>
>Also, Pat Swayne, of the old "Heath[kit] User's Group" actually had some
>new ones made last year by a disk company. Don't know if these are gone
>or not, he was getting about $1.90 per disk for them, as I recall.
I think the heath were 12 or 16 hole hard sector. Be sure first as
NS* is 10.
Allison
nos...@nouce.bellatlantic.net
<Watzma...@neo.rr.com> wrote:
>Anyone have any hard sector floppies that they don't want? They are
>hard to find. I have a Northstar controller, and of course any 5.25"
>drive will work, but no media.
I haven't bought any in 20 years. I don't have many left and am
reusing some of the older dups of dups as a result.
It was one of the reasons I went softsector and stopped using the NS*
back in 1980. The world or a good part of it was softsector and I
wasn't.
Allison
Randy McLaughlin
news:hdl431thc747mmp3h...@4ax.com...
Heath used two different 5.25" formats: soft-sectored & 10 sector
hard-sectored like NorthStar.
Randy
www.s100-manuals.com
Barry Watzman
[Trust me; I was the product line director for Heathkit and Zenith Data
Systems for almost 5 years]
Barry Watzman
10-hole 5", soft-sector 5" (any format that a WD controller would work
with), and all of the 8" formats.
[One of my count of "5" is the H-27, for the H-11, which was 8" SSSD]
nos...@nouce.bellatlantic.net
<Watzma...@neo.rr.com> wrote:
>Correct; actually, there were 5 different Heath disk systems, using
>10-hole 5", soft-sector 5" (any format that a WD controller would work
>with), and all of the 8" formats.
>
>[One of my count of "5" is the H-27, for the H-11, which was 8" SSSD]
Ok then who made the oddball 16 sector had disk for the h89? The
board gives me no clue but, I had a H89 that with it. I converted it
to soft sector and gave it away.
Allison
Bill Leary
news:hdl431thc747mmp3h...@4ax.com...
> I think the heath were 12 or 16 hole hard sector. Be sure first as
> NS* is 10.
I've been assuming NS* is short hand for North Star. Right?
I've got a North Star Horizon out in my barn with Micropolis 16 sector hard
sector drives in it which the company I got it from told me came that way from
the factory as their optional "high capacity" drives. Were the standard drives
10 sector and the high capacity ones these 16 sector jobs? Or were the people I
got this from misinformed?
- Bill
Randy McLaughlin
news:b96dneVotsj...@giganews.com...
You were misinformed, all of the NS (NorthStar) systems used 10 sector disks
(unless individually hacked).
You could use 80 track drives for "high capacity".
I knew someone that hacked a NS to use 16 sector disks.
Randy
www.s100-manuals.com
Bill Leary
> > these 16 sector jobs? Or were the people I got this from misinformed?
>
> disks (unless individually hacked).
>
> You could use 80 track drives for "high capacity".
>
> I knew someone that hacked a NS to use 16 sector disks.
Very interesting.
I used to take the data disks from their system and put them in my home brew
CP/M machine, which I'd built around four Micropolis drives. I can't recall now
where I got the CP/M I was using on my system. "Lifeboat" comes to mind, but
I'm not positive it was them. Considering the history of interleave,
out-and-back, and all that it's amazing they were compatible. Or maybe not.
There probably weren't that many sources for CP/M for the Micropolis drives.
Whoever put them in their machine probably just happened to pick the same vendor
I did.
Thanks.
- Bill
nos...@nouce.bellatlantic.net
<ra...@nospam.com> wrote:
>I knew someone that hacked a NS to use 16 sector disks.
Its extremely easy, change the counter from /10 to /16
For the MDS-A (SD) that means changing 1G from 74ls160(/10)
to a 74ls161 (/16). At one point I hacked the controller for one
sector per track as it worked best with those floppies with only
an index hole. One sector of 3072 bytes (you get more without
sector gap waste). All it took was supressing the sector counting
so you time read or write start on index. It only got me about 20k
more per drive and that wasn't enough I needed 2d at least (180k).
Allison
Bill Leary
news:h3v431hpa707nd9li...@4ax.com...
> On Fri, 11 Mar 2005 22:56:37 -0600, "Randy McLaughlin"
> <ra...@nospam.com> wrote:
>
> >I knew someone that hacked a NS to use 16 sector disks.
>
> Its extremely easy, change the counter from /10 to /16
This machine actually has a Micropolis floppy disk controller card installed in
it along with two internal and two external drives.
- Bill
bud
I expect that a knowledgable person with the right sized punch could
make their own hard sector media out of soft sector.
salaam,
dowcom
To e-mail me, add the character zero to "dowcom". i.e.:
dowcom(zero)(at)webtv(dot)net.
--
http://community.webtv.net/dowcom/DOWCOMSAMSTRADGUIDE
MSWindows is television,… Linux is radar.
Robert J. Stevens
> Anyone have any hard sector floppies that they don't want? They are
> hard to find. I have a Northstar controller, and of course any 5.25"
> drive will work, but no media.
snipped
I could send you a couple to try.
Bob
Robert J. Stevens
Bill;
I've been think about putting a HD on my N* Horizon if I can get it running
Can we talk my E-Mail is good
Barry Watzman
that, but it is not at all trivial.
bud
'Lo Barry:
Group: comp.os.cpm Date: Sat, Mar 12, 2005, 6:56pm (CST+6) From:
Watzma...@neo.rr.com (Barry Watzman)
script:
>Someone in one of the other groups
>I'm in actually built a punch to do that,
>but it is not at all trivial.
>
>bud wrote:
>
>>I expect that a knowledgable person
>>with the right sized punch could make
>>their own hard sector media out of soft
>>sector.
That's the reason I said "knowledgable". :-))
Actually, now that I think about the toughness of Mylar (R), I think
that a brad-point bit in a drill press with a reliable indexing jig
would be better.
salaam,
dowcom
To e-mail me, add the character zero to "dowcom". i.e.:
dowcom(zero)(at)webtv(dot)net.
--
dke...@hotmail.com
I'm the one that Barry is talking about. I built it using the
frame of a scrap SA-400. I use a back end of a drill
bit that has been sharpened to punch the holes.
On the flywheel of the drive, I indexed 11 indents to
select the position of the punch. I close the disk into
the drive with a pin in the original index hole. I then
rotate the disk to each detent on the flywheel and
punch out the hole.
It is a time consuming process but does produce hard
sectored disk.
The old SA400 makes a good base for making such
a system. It has a nice sold frame and mechanism
to hold the disk. If one got carried away, one could even
automate the system.
Dwight
bud
Good to hear from you, Dwight. :-))
Andreas Gerlich
Randy McLaughlin <ra...@nospam.com> wrote:
> Anyone interested in the UCSD P-System for their CP/M systems it is
> available for download from my site.
I made the necessary changes in my Z80 emulator YAZE-AG (Yet Another
Z80 Emulator by AG) that the UCSD P-System (in CPMADAPT.exe) starts inside it.
In the file 0-readme.1st (when you have started the emulator)
I describe what I have to do that the P-System runs inside YAZE-AG.
For windows user I make the following package (with the cygwin environment)
with all files
http://www.mathematik.uni-ulm.de/users/ag/yaze-ag/devel/CPMADAPT-YAZE-AG.exe
(read the README.TXT)
I don't know how I can access the other disks under the P-System.
I can only access SYSCPM1: the volume on SYSCPM1.BIN with the Filer.
If anybody have informations about that, please write an email to me.
I have no knowledge about the P-System.
Regards
Andreas Gerlich
--
Dipl.-Ing.(FH) Andreas Gerlich email: Andreas...@mathematik.uni-ulm.de
University of Ulm, Germany
Project (Z80 Emulator) --> http://www.mathematik.uni-ulm.de/users/ag/yaze-ag/
Niveau ist eine beliebig absenkbare Grenze
Randy McLaughlin
news:4247...@news.uni-ulm.de...
I'm glad to see people using it, it will be later this summer before I get a
chance. I want to use it on the Imsai series two, 50mhz should be
interesting.
I'll look at your code and I can even build you a large volume with more
code on it.
The biggest problem with the psystem is a 77 file limit, the file system
only allows 77 files to exist per volume.
Randy
www.s100-manuals.com
Andreas Gerlich
Randy McLaughlin <ra...@nospam.com> wrote:
> ...
> I'm glad to see people using it, it will be later this summer before I get
> a chance. I want to use it on the Imsai series two, 50mhz should be
> interesting.
> I'll look at your code and I can even build you a large volume with more
> code on it.
Which code do you mean? The code in PASBOOTY.ASM or the C-code of yaze-ag?
> The biggest problem with the psystem is a 77 file limit, the file system
> only allows 77 files to exist per volume.
I miss some important informations on www.s100-manuals.com/pascal.htm.
You update the page yesterday (March 27, 2005).
On the old one there was very important informations about the BIN-files
inside CPMADAPT.exe.
Please put it on the pagei again. I need this informations. (for example
that the volumes begins at track 2, etc ...)
Only with this Informations I can adapt the P-System for yaze-ag.
Please put it on the page again!
An another question: How can I access the other drives in the P-System.
I mount the other tree BIN-files to drive B:, C: and D:.
Randy McLaughlin
> I miss some important informations on www.s100-manuals.com/pascal.htm.
> You update the page yesterday (March 27, 2005).
> On the old one there was very important informations about the BIN-files
> inside CPMADAPT.exe.
> Please put it on the pagei again. I need this informations. (for example
> that the volumes begins at track 2, etc ...)
> Only with this Informations I can adapt the P-System for yaze-ag.
> Please put it on the page again!
I moved the info into the readme file in the archive (CPMADAPT.exe) since
the info is specific to the adaptable system.
I did that some time ago, the last thing I did was add the addendum for
NorthStar pascal.
If I remove anything it is copied into a more appropriate area, it was
wrong, or it was an accident. I am trying to change my site to make it
better, I am trying to keep the dates updated on the home page so anyone
checking it can tell if there are any improvements to check out.
> An another question: How can I access the other drives in the P-System.
> I mount the other tree BIN-files to drive B:, C: and D:.
>
> Regards
> Andreas Gerlich
> --
> Dipl.-Ing.(FH) Andreas Gerlich email:
> Andreas...@mathematik.uni-ulm.de
> University of Ulm, Germany
>
> Project (Z80 Emulator) -->
> http://www.mathematik.uni-ulm.de/users/ag/yaze-ag/
>
> Niveau ist eine beliebig absenkbare Grenze
The problem is I don't have any documentation for it and I am using copies
of the original disks that have already been modified.
It looks like the CP/M adaptable system normally came configured to look at
the first two drives (A & B only). The version I have is configured for a
single drive system.
The files needed to change it are on the INTCPM volume. INTCPM is
corrupted, it has a valid directory but the files contain all 0E5H's :-(
There are supposed to be three diferent drive configuration systems single
drive, dual drive, and four drive.
For now the easiest thing to do is to create a large drive A and copy all of
the desired files to the larger pseudo disks. Using an 8 bit track & sector
numbering system (8mb or less) tell me what drive parameters you want to use
and I'll create the disk images. 8mb is a waste since it has a 77 file
count limit.
I'll check the disks I borrowed again for the INTCPM volume.
If anyone else has a copy and or documentation speak up.
Randy
www.s100-manuals.com
Randy McLaughlin
SYS144.BIN is a file designed to emulate a PC's 1.44mb.
It uses one track as a boot track and 159 tracks as a psystem volume.
Notes on changes to pasboot are included in the readme file.
Randy
www.s100-manuals.com
Andreas Gerlich
Randy McLaughlin <ra...@nospam.com> wrote:
> I've posted a new psystem file more appropriate for real use:
> SYS144.BIN is a file designed to emulate a PC's 1.44mb.
> It uses one track as a boot track and 159 tracks as a psystem volume.
> Notes on changes to pasboot are included in the readme file.
In my Z80 Emulator YAZE-AG I can mount only SSSD 8" dumps. I have to
modify my emulator because it mount diskfiles with another size than
256256 bytes as special "<CPM_DISK>"-files. (SSSD 8" disks have exactly
256256 bytes! 77 * 26 * 128 bytes = 256256 bytes)
But I have an another question:
I try to run the psystem.com inside psystem.exe which I can download from
http://www.s100-manuals.com/pascal.htm.
When I start the the file PSYSTEM.COM I get the following messages:
---------------------------------------------------------
In the first two lines:
Startup Utility - [1R1.0]
PSYSTEM:SYSTEM.MISCINFO --->
and than in the last Line (24 or 25) the error:
Divide by zero, Seg FILEOPS P#15 0"11416, <sp> reinitializes
When I give a SPACE the system crashes.
---------------------------------------------------------
You write in the README.txt that you have a running system at home.
This files (psystem.exe) is corrupt.
I try it under Windows ME and MS-DOS 6.22
Regard
Andreas
--
Dipl.-Ing.(FH) Andreas Gerlich
Universyte of Ulm, Germany
Randy McLaughlin
formats and updated the CPMADAPT.exe archive with them.
Two of the disks had errors - 6 & 9. Disk 6 had an error on track one and
the Psystem data was not affected, disk 9 had multiple errors and has no
data of any value.
"Andreas Gerlich" <Andreas...@mathematik.uni-ulm.de> wrote in message
news:424b...@news.uni-ulm.de...
> Hello Randy,
>
> Randy McLaughlin <ra...@nospam.com> wrote:
>> I've posted a new psystem file more appropriate for real use:
>
>> SYS144.BIN is a file designed to emulate a PC's 1.44mb.
>
>> It uses one track as a boot track and 159 tracks as a psystem volume.
>
>> Notes on changes to pasboot are included in the readme file.
>
> In my Z80 Emulator YAZE-AG I can mount only SSSD 8" dumps. I have to
> modify my emulator because it mount diskfiles with another size than
> 256256 bytes as special "<CPM_DISK>"-files. (SSSD 8" disks have exactly
> 256256 bytes! 77 * 26 * 128 bytes = 256256 bytes)
I understand the size of 8" disks. I can give you the CP/M tables I setup
for the Imsai Series 2 floppy that uses 1.44mb if you'd like.
The problem right now is the Psystem setup for YAZE only looks at the 1st
drive. I thought it might help to use a larger disk so all the files would
fit.
I intend to get the Psystem running on the Imsai so I created a disk for it
thinking you could adapt to it.
>
> But I have an another question:
> I try to run the psystem.com inside psystem.exe which I can download from
> http://www.s100-manuals.com/pascal.htm.
> When I start the the file PSYSTEM.COM I get the following messages:
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------
> In the first two lines:
> Startup Utility - [1R1.0]
> PSYSTEM:SYSTEM.MISCINFO --->
>
> and than in the last Line (24 or 25) the error:
> Divide by zero, Seg FILEOPS P#15 0"11416, <sp> reinitializes
>
> When I give a SPACE the system crashes.
> ---------------------------------------------------------
>
> You write in the README.txt that you have a running system at home.
> This files (psystem.exe) is corrupt.
> I try it under Windows ME and MS-DOS 6.22
>
> Regard
> Andreas
> --
> Dipl.-Ing.(FH) Andreas Gerlich
> Universyte of Ulm, Germany
>
> Project (Z80 Emulator) -->
> http://www.mathematik.uni-ulm.de/users/ag/yaze-ag/
>
> Niveau ist eine beliebig absenkbare Grenze
I just downloaded psystem.exe from my site and will verify if the archive is
corrupted or not. If it is I will update it in just a few minutes.
Randy
www.s100-manuals.com
Randy McLaughlin
<snip>
> "Andreas Gerlich" <Andreas...@mathematik.uni-ulm.de> wrote in message
> news:424b...@news.uni-ulm.de...
>> But I have an another question:
>> I try to run the psystem.com inside psystem.exe which I can download from
>> http://www.s100-manuals.com/pascal.htm.
>> When I start the the file PSYSTEM.COM I get the following messages:
>>
>> ---------------------------------------------------------
>> In the first two lines:
>> Startup Utility - [1R1.0]
>> PSYSTEM:SYSTEM.MISCINFO --->
>>
>> and than in the last Line (24 or 25) the error:
>> Divide by zero, Seg FILEOPS P#15 0"11416, <sp> reinitializes
>>
>> When I give a SPACE the system crashes.
>> ---------------------------------------------------------
>>
>> You write in the README.txt that you have a running system at home.
>> This files (psystem.exe) is corrupt.
>> I try it under Windows ME and MS-DOS 6.22
>>
>> Regard
>> --
>> Dipl.-Ing.(FH) Andreas Gerlich
>> Universyte of Ulm, Germany
>>
>> Project (Z80 Emulator) -->
>> http://www.mathematik.uni-ulm.de/users/ag/yaze-ag/
>>
>> Niveau ist eine beliebig absenkbare Grenze
>
> I just downloaded psystem.exe from my site and will verify if the archive
> is corrupted or not. If it is I will update it in just a few minutes.
>
>
> Randy
> www.s100-manuals.com
I just downloaded psystem.exe, ran it to expand the files to a directory
(TempP for a test), double clicked on psystem.com.
It generated a warning message from WinXP saying it was trying to access
hardware directly and I clicked on Ignore.
It came up fine, I tried a couple of things with no problems.
Has anyone else tried it?
BTW: I've been having a lot of problems with www.s100-manuals.com, the
pascal files are really kept on a different site www.s100-manuals.net and
are hyper-linked in. If anyone has trouble with my main site they can try
the .net site, if the files needed are on the .com site it won't help but I
keep most of my files on the .net. After my contract ends with the provider
for the .com site ends I'll move to a better server.
Randy
www.s100-manuals.com