Sydex tools
Gaby Chaudry
the downloads of Anadisk, CopyQM and Teledisk, as well as the extended
22disk definitions file. As I had no choice, I removed the files.
Of course I've got a bunch of self-defined 22disk definitions. So, if you
are in need of a definition not included with the Shareware version of
22disk, you can contact me at the mail address given in the signature - and
I can hopefully provide you the definition you need.
Best wishes
Gaby
--
Mrs. Gaby Chaudry
http://www.gaby.de/
mailto:ga...@gaby.de
Harold Bower
"Gaby Chaudry" <cha...@gaby.de> wrote:
> Well, no good news.... Yesterday I got a mail from Sydex asking me to
> remove the downloads of Anadisk, CopyQM and Teledisk, as well as the
> extended 22disk definitions file. As I had no choice, I removed the
> files.
I can imagine the reasons they gave, as well as the reasons they did not
give. Hopefully other companies will not follow the this example and
that of Borland with their Modula-2. If it will help, There are some
formats in the alien library with B/P Bios (GPL released) that need only
minor re-definition to be compatible with the 22disk definitions.
Hal
Gaby Chaudry
> If it will help, There are some
> formats in the alien library with B/P Bios (GPL released) that need only
> minor re-definition to be compatible with the 22disk definitions.
Sounds good. Do you have a possibility to easily check whether these formats
are part of the "small" 22disk definition file or not?
On the other hand, I doubt if they can really claim copyright for disk
format definitions. Of course I'm not willing and don't have the means to
argue with them about that, but IMHO my doubts are justified....
Perhaps we can collect 22disk definitions created by ourselves and put them
all together in one place.
Bye, Gaby
Randy McLaughlin
news:c9a0jf$e08$01$1...@news.t-online.com...
Does anyone know of of any other disk image software for handling CP/M
disks?
Randy
CBFalconer
>
> Well, no good news.... Yesterday I got a mail from Sydex asking
> me to remove the downloads of Anadisk, CopyQM and Teledisk, as
> well as the extended 22disk definitions file. As I had no choice,
> I removed the files.
What kind of mail was it? You might wish to check that it is not
simply some idiot faking the identity over e-mail. The request
sounds pointless to me.
--
Chuck F (cbfal...@yahoo.com) (cbfal...@worldnet.att.net)
Available for consulting/temporary embedded and systems.
<http://cbfalconer.home.att.net> USE worldnet address!
Holger Petersen
>Does anyone know of of any other disk image software for handling CP/M
>disks?
There used to be some Turbo-Pascal Sources (commercial IIRC).
I might have them but I do not anymore know, in what container
after two moves...
Yours, Holger
-- german Text -->
Es gab mal von der Zeitschrift CHIP eine Software und
von "Pascal International". Eventuell erinnert sich
ein deutscher Mit-Leser daran?
Randy McLaughlin
news:40B8C385...@yahoo.com...
I agree in checking it out. It is strange to see someone protecting the
rights of software that barely runs under Windoze 98 and doesn't like XP at
all. Their software was written for DOS and the techniques they used do not
lend themselves to current OS technologies.
I believe that the letter may be true, I just looked at the Sydex homepage
and it has changed. They had turned these programs over to
www.forensics-intl.com, but when I went there they no longer any mention of
the Sydex software.
That venture may have failed and Sydex may be trying to recapture a dead
industry. The question is are they going to start offering it on their site
again? If so I wonder how much they expect to be able to charge.
It may be worthwhile trying to contact Sydex directly to see if they are
coming out with anything to support current OS's (either Windoze XP or
Linux).
If all they are not going to sell it do they plan to die and take it with
them?
For my interest in teledisk I can always write something myself that does
what I want. What I want is a public domain method of archiving CP/M boot
disks and converting them to 3.5" formats.
Where possible I want disk images like the SuperIO that rawrite handles.
This means it will work on almost any PC running DOS, any Windoze, or Linux,
etc.
For CP/M systems that can not handle booting and running 512 byte MFM disks
I can create a program that writes a boot disk directly (in DOS). I would
not write anything as generic as teledisk, it would be manually modified for
each different format. I do not have the time nor the desire to recreate
teledisk but I can make a special purpose program that does something
similar.
Randy
Gaby Chaudry
> What kind of mail was it? You might wish to check that it is not
> simply some idiot faking the identity over e-mail. The request
> sounds pointless to me.
The mail was (unfortunately) not faked :(
The request was based on the fact that all three programs (Anadisk,
CopyQM and Teledisk) have been discontinued and sold from Sydex
to NTI some time ago.
They are now commercial software for forensic use.
I assume that Sydex itself was sold to NTI, and that NTI is looking
for measures to force people to buy the software from them.
They did not prohibit the distribution of the other Sydex products which
have not been bought by NTI, as e.g. 22disk or 22nice.
I'm not familiar enough with legal issues to judge whether or not it is
legal
to prohibit the distribution of the old shareware versions, but in case of
doubt I must assume that it is. I don't want to run any risk.
As for the 22disk definitions, as stated in another post, I'm really in
doubt
whether they can claim copyright, as everybody can generate these
definitions easily with the same or similar result. But also here I still
don't
want to run any risk.
Bye, Gaby
Randy McLaughlin
news:c9aigi$gvq$1...@kbbs.org...
When and if you find it maybe the original copyright holder can be found and
maybe it can be release to the public domain.
Randy
Gaby Chaudry
> Does anyone know of of any other disk image software for handling CP/M
> disks?
There is e.g. a Windows 3.1/95 tool called Maxidisk (downloadable from
http://www.cpm.z80.de/share.html). And of course there is rawrite for DOS
or Unix systems.
Unfortunately, both tools are not comparable with CopyQM or even Teledisk.
I already negotiated with NTI about getting copies of Teledisk for my CP/M
User group. The problem was that they wanted 100 US$ per copy,
with no discount at all (we were talking about 25 copies). As nobody was
willing to pay these 100 US$, the deal didn't take place.
Bye, Gaby
Randy McLaughlin
To my knoledge you can not un-ring a bell.
Once copyrighted material (includining software) is released to the public
domain it is in the public domain.
I do not know under what circumstances the Sydex software ended up on the
WEB. If it was posted as a trial package then obviously it is not released
to the public domain (which I assume is the case here).
Another case where companies un-ring bells is to come out with a newer
version that is not public and they hope people are willing to get the
"newer and better" version they are selling.
FWIW when I went to the NTI site I did not see any reference to the Sydex s
oftware, the only software I saw was software being offered for free to
policing agencies that was to be used to see if there is any contraband
files on a system.
Most people do not need the software that has been removed. Even the disk
definitions can be handled on a format by format basis.
Randy
Gaby Chaudry
> I do not know under what circumstances the Sydex software ended up on the
> WEB. If it was posted as a trial package then obviously it is not
released
> to the public domain (which I assume is the case here).
It was shareware, distributed exactly under the terms Sydex released
it for distribution. They reproached me with not asking them permission
to distribute the software.... Seems that they forgot that they themselves
released it under the shareware model, which implements that it can be
freely distributed (of course always in the original package including
the registering information a.s.o.).
> Another case where companies un-ring bells is to come out with a newer
> version that is not public and they hope people are willing to get the
> "newer and better" version they are selling.
Yes, this is the case. Though I believe that these measures just make
life a bit harder for some people, but new customers won't come up.
On the contrary: as long as there is a shareware or test version, people
may want to buy the full version if they like it and use it regularly.
If there is no such "teaser", how shall people learn about the product?
Bad marketing strategy....
Gaby Chaudry
homepage:
<< Chuck Guzis is one of the principal founders of NTI. He provides advice
based on his extensive experience with software companies and as a utility
software developer. He also has developed several of NTI's computer
forensics software tools. Mr. Guzis is also the President of Sydex, Inc.
which is located in Eugene, Oregon. Sydex has specialized in the development
of custom low level software applications and computer hardware devices. >>
Holger Petersen
>For my interest in teledisk I can always write something myself that does
>what I want. What I want is a public domain method of archiving CP/M boot
>disks and converting them to 3.5" formats.
But without compression! So that one *could* mount them if there would
be any mount-Option to use CP/M-Disks. Or some 'mtools' equivalent.
Yours, Holger
IF I'd come around those PASCAL-sources I'll post here...
Don Maslin
: "Gaby Chaudry" <cha...@gaby.de> wrote in message
You are correct. AnaDisk and TeleDisk were originally placed on the web
as shareware, but withdrawn from that category in the early 1990's - cannot
pin down the exact year. In any event, v2.12 was about the last shareware
version.
- don
: Another case where companies un-ring bells is to come out with a newer
: version that is not public and they hope people are willing to get the
: "newer and better" version they are selling.
:
: policing agencies that was to be used to see if there is any contraband
John Elliott
: Does anyone know of of any other disk image software for handling CP/M
: disks?
There's LibDsk, which was designed to allow emulators to use real discs or
disc image files transparently.
<http://www.seasip.demon.co.uk/Unix/LibDsk/>
While it could eventually be used as a basis for a GPLed clone of 22disk
(or of Anadisk, Teledisk or CopyQM for that matter), it couldn't jump
straight in and take on the job. At the moment, it's pretty good at imaging
DOS, CP/M-86, Acorn and PCW discs. cpmtools can use libdsk for drive access,
so it's possible to copy files to/from CP/M discs in these formats.
To make LibDsk capable of supporting a 22disk level of functionality, it
would need:
* The ability to load arbitrary drive geometries from a configuration file,
rather than hardcoding them in the library. This doesn't *have* to go in
the library (it could go in the calling application) but I think it makes
more sense to have it in one place.
* A better DOS backend (the current one uses INT 13h, so there are some
drive geometries it can't handle). Ideally it would talk directly to the
controller, like 22disk does.
* A better Windows NT backend (the current one uses NT's own floppy driver,
floppy.sys, which only supports about half-a-dozen fixed drive geometries).
Sydex (of course) had an alternative NT floppy driver called SydexFDD to
get round this problem.
And to make it able to support a Teledisk/CopyQM clone, it would also need
a driver for the TD0/CopyQM file formats. Again, this could go in the
application but the right place for these things is the library.
All these things are possible; it's just a question of time and/or
knowledge. At the moment I don't have the time to spend on LibDsk upgrades
(and I've never written anything that controls a PC floppy controller at the
level of the bare metal). But if Sydex are going around hunting out and
destroying copies of their utilities, perhaps we should think about writing
our own clones of them. LibDsk, I think, is a useful starting place; so if
anyone wants to have a go at improving it, feel free.
--
------------- http://www.seasip.demon.co.uk/index.html --------------------
John Elliott |BLOODNOK: "But why have you got such a long face?"
|SEAGOON: "Heavy dentures, Sir!" - The Goon Show
:-------------------------------------------------------------------------)
Anonymous Guy
On 2004-05-29 cha...@gaby.de (Gaby Chaudry) said:
> Well, no good news.... Yesterday I got a mail from Sydex asking
> me to remove the downloads of Anadisk, CopyQM and Teledisk, as
> well as the extended 22disk definitions file. As I had no choice,
> I removed the files.
Thanks for the "heads-up," Gaby.
Fortunately, ANADISK, TELEDISK and COPYQM are still available
for download from hundreds of different sites on the 'Net.
Since Sydex/NTI appears to be on the warpath over distribution
of its shareware, it would probably be prudent for anyone who
might be interested in these programs to grab copies of them
NOW -- while they're still around.
Rosso
> I do not know under what circumstances the Sydex software ended up on
the
> WEB.
On the CP/M websites or the web in general?
I originally got CopyQM with an image of CP/M-86 v1.1 (on a 1.44Mb
floppy).
> If it was posted as a trial package then obviously it is not released
> to the public domain (which I assume is the case here).
They were released as Shareware on the net, Sydex expected a payment fee
if the program came to some use.
Regards,
Ross.
Rosso
> I agree in checking it out. It is strange to see someone protecting
the
> rights of software that barely runs under Windoze 98 and doesn't like
XP at
> all. Their software was written for DOS and the techniques they used
do not
> lend themselves to current OS technologies.
Maybe this is what they are worrying about, since computers are changing
all the time, it might take one person (who don't know what they are
doing), to mess up their computer & hold NTI accountable for this, they
may even sue.
Ross.
R. Steve Walz
>
> Randy,
>
> > I do not know under what circumstances the Sydex software ended up on the
> > WEB. If it was posted as a trial package then obviously it is not
> released
> > to the public domain (which I assume is the case here).
>
> It was shareware, distributed exactly under the terms Sydex released
> it for distribution. They reproached me with not asking them permission
> to distribute the software.... Seems that they forgot that they themselves
> released it under the shareware model, which implements that it can be
> freely distributed (of course always in the original package including
> the registering information a.s.o.).
Then they sold it without proper pedigree and are trying now to
cover their asses. Ignore them and put it on a special unlinked
page only disccused here, and which states that unregistered
parties don't have legal right to even access it. PSP tried that
with version 4.1 that they had released on CD's all over the place
and they got laughed at!
> > Another case where companies un-ring bells is to come out with a newer
> > version that is not public and they hope people are willing to get the
> > "newer and better" version they are selling.
>
> Yes, this is the case. Though I believe that these measures just make
> life a bit harder for some people, but new customers won't come up.
> On the contrary: as long as there is a shareware or test version, people
> may want to buy the full version if they like it and use it regularly.
> If there is no such "teaser", how shall people learn about the product?
>
> Bad marketing strategy....
>
> Bye, Gaby
>
> --
> Mrs. Gaby Chaudry
> http://www.gaby.de/
> mailto:ga...@gaby.de
-----------------------
-Steve
--
-Steve Walz rst...@armory.com ftp://ftp.armory.com/pub/user/rstevew
Electronics Site!! 1000's of Files and Dirs!! With Schematics Galore!!
http://www.armory.com/~rstevew or http://www.armory.com/~rstevew/Public
R. Steve Walz
But the shareware model, AND THEIR accompanying info permits
unlimited distribution if the original package was intact, and
THAT IS the bell that cannot BE un-rung!
Harold Bower
"Gaby Chaudry" <cha...@gaby.de> wrote:
> Sounds good. Do you have a possibility to easily check whether these
> formats are part of the "small" 22disk definition file or not?
I don't use nor have 22disk, but the formats that B/P Bios has available
are in a file named 'ALIEN.LIB' which is assembled and linked to
'ALIEN.DAT'. This file is then accessible to BPFORMAT and EMULATE for
formatting floppies and using disks in other formats than the native
ones. I keep adding formats as new ones come along. There is currently
a version of B/P Bios available for the SuperIO board available from
Howard Harte that has the latest library definitions in it. Each of the
B/P Bios source libraries also has the ALIEN files in it.
Hal
Claudio Puviani
> Well, no good news.... Yesterday I got a mail from Sydex asking me to remove
> the downloads of Anadisk, CopyQM and Teledisk, as well as the extended
> 22disk definitions file. As I had no choice, I removed the files.
>
> Of course I've got a bunch of self-defined 22disk definitions. So, if you
> are in need of a definition not included with the Shareware version of
> 22disk, you can contact me at the mail address given in the signature - and
> I can hopefully provide you the definition you need.
For Sydex to be concerned about people downloading archaic software that has been
commercially worthless for over a decade can only be interpreted as a sign of
myopia, panic, corporate failure, and impending downfall on their part. That
they're not even concerned about the humiliating ridicule that this brings on
them just reinforces that interpretation. It would have been a lot easier for
them to just have "LOSER" tattooed to their foreheads. I look forward to reading
about their bankruptcy. :-)
Claudio Puviani
Bob Yates
Submitted without comment
http://www.8bit-micro.com/anadisk.htm
http://www.xs4all.nl/~fjkraan/comp/pcsoft/
http://files.chatnfiles.com/Nightowl%2018/020A/files.htm
http://www.nfbnet.org/download/disk.htm
http://sac-ftp.gratex.sk/utildisk8.html
http://www.forensics-intl.com/anadisk.html
http://www.forensics-intl.com/teledisk.html
http://www.forensics-intl.com/copyqm.html
http://www.tucofs.com/tucofs/tucofs.asp?mode=filelist&catid=10&oskey=14
Peter Smith
Gaby,
it might be interesting that there was one guy who reengineered
(legally) the code for Teledisk, please have a look at
http://www.fpns.net/willy/wteledsk.htm .
Regards
Peter
Holger Petersen
Hello!
I've found an old booklet:
"Chip Spezial 'Besser programmieren'"
Datenaustausch zwischen den populärsten PC-
Anwenderprogrammen und anderen CP/M-Computern
... Wordstar, Framework, dBase-III Open-AccessII
Perfect Filer, Multiplan
andere CP/M-Formate Super-Multiformatprogramm
für IBM PC, Schneider PC und kompatible
no date, but the price was 28 DM (about 15 $ :-)
On page 55 there starts a description of the programm, and on
page 58 there starts a PASCAL-Listing of about 14oo Lines.
The author was "Bernd Edlinger"
I do not know anything about the legal status...
Yours, Holger
Peter Smith
> I've found an old booklet:
>
> "Chip Spezial 'Besser programmieren'"
> Datenaustausch zwischen den populärsten PC-
> Anwenderprogrammen und anderen CP/M-Computern
>
> ... Wordstar, Framework, dBase-III Open-AccessII
> Perfect Filer, Multiplan
> andere CP/M-Formate Super-Multiformatprogramm
> für IBM PC, Schneider PC und kompatible
>
> no date, but the price was 28 DM (about 15 $ :-)
>
> On page 55 there starts a description of the programm, and on
> page 58 there starts a PASCAL-Listing of about 14oo Lines.
>
> The author was "Bernd Edlinger"
>
If you own that "Chip Spezial", was there a service to get the software
also on floppy disk (instead of typing it by myself) ?
Regards / Gruss
Peter
Randy McLaughlin
Germany. It just appears to be unfair to take outdated software that fits
the needs of a group that collects outdataed hardware away when it was
freely given in the past.
It is definitely un-ringing a bell.
I would doubt that Sydex's case would hold up in court, but who wants to go
to court.
The 22disk extended definitions were different in that that was what you got
when you registered the software. I find it easier to understand why Sydex
wants to restrict the definitions (except it is so old).
I propose that Sydex taking away the software is not all bad.
It means that to replace the functionality new work is required.
The biggest hurdle is FM, FM requires special hardware and will not be
available to all with existing hardware.
I propose the functions of teledisk & 22disk could be combined. While
22disk is still available it does not work under either of the current major
OS's (Linux & XP).
I would prefer a cpmtools package that reads & writes CP/M boot tracks as
well as CP/M files. This would allow the boot disks to be archived in a
file oriented system so that the files on the archived boot disk can be
read/written from the host OS. The boot track(s) would be stored as a
separate file.
The formatting of the boot track would have a separate definition record:
The formatting data would have one format for the directory & data area and
up to two formats for the boot tracks. Track one can be different from
track two on. This would handle all of the CP/M disk formats I know of.
Archiving of CP/M boot disks would be much better and easier this way.
Unfortuneatly is ignores archiving of non-CP/M disks (p-system, oasis, etc).
For these either continuing to use teledisk or using the updated cpmtools
and just calling the whole disk the "boot tracks" with no directory or data
area.
Anadisk is not a complex program and should be fairly easy to emulate the
portions I am interested in. a readtrack command can be analyzed easily to
determine sector structure. Any analysis beyond that can be restricted to
CP/M.
Other methods of emulating portions of anadisk should be possible.
Randy
Harold F. Bower
"Gaby Chaudry" <cha...@gaby.de> wrote:
> Sounds good. Do you have a possibility to easily check whether these
> formats are part of the "small" 22disk definition file or not?
Sorry on my previous response. I forgot just where the sources were, so
the Floppy format database used in the Banked and Portable (B/P) Bios is
now in a separate ZIP file on my web page:
Go to the end of the B/P Bios Section where I am beginning to release
sources for utilities and get the ALIEN.ZIP file. The enclosed README
explains how to use the files.
Hal
Hector Peraza
:> What kind of mail was it? You might wish to check that it is not
:> simply some idiot faking the identity over e-mail. The request
:> sounds pointless to me.
:
: The mail was (unfortunately) not faked :(
:
: The request was based on the fact that all three programs (Anadisk,
: CopyQM and Teledisk) have been discontinued and sold from Sydex
: to NTI some time ago.
Even more strange, if the product was sold to NTI, why did Sydex contact you
and not NTI? AFAIK, if Sydex sold the software, then legally they cannot
make such a request (or any other kind of claim for that matter). And,
weren't these programs shareware?
Hector.
Don Maslin
: I am not a lawyer. Add to that I have no idea what status shareware has in
: Germany. It just appears to be unfair to take outdated software that fits
: the needs of a group that collects outdataed hardware away when it was
: freely given in the past.
: It is definitely un-ringing a bell.
: I would doubt that Sydex's case would hold up in court, but who wants to go
: to court.
: The 22disk extended definitions were different in that that was what you got
: when you registered the software. I find it easier to understand why Sydex
: wants to restrict the definitions (except it is so old).
: I propose that Sydex taking away the software is not all bad.
: It means that to replace the functionality new work is required.
: The biggest hurdle is FM, FM requires special hardware and will not be
: available to all with existing hardware.
Not necessarily true, but likely for FDCs that are incorporated in the
motherboard. However, if the FDC is 37C65A or NS8473 based there is a
good chance that the FDC will handle FM.
: I propose the functions of teledisk & 22disk could be combined. While
: 22disk is still available it does not work under either of the current major
: OS's (Linux & XP).
Surely, any self respecting vintage computer nut ^H^H^H enthusiast has
an older PC that will handle an appropriate operating system!
: I would prefer a cpmtools package that reads & writes CP/M boot tracks as
: well as CP/M files. This would allow the boot disks to be archived in a
: file oriented system so that the files on the archived boot disk can be
: read/written from the host OS. The boot track(s) would be stored as a
: separate file.
The instruction text that accompanies 22Disk makes clear that it can do
just that provided that the boot track density does not differ from the
remainder of the disk. This is done by use of the Label function which
reads the boot track data from a separate file carrying the same name as
the disk definition block and with the extension LBL. Works fine, but
becomes a bit involved when you have several applications with the same
disk definition but different boot track data. A work around is to create
multiple disk definition blocks each with a different name.
It is still necessary to transfer disk files to the newly formatted disk
in a separate operation and from a separate file in order to create a
usable disk.
- don
: The formatting of the boot track would have a separate definition record:
Randy McLaughlin
news:o4Muc.3955$il....@chiapp18.algx.net...
> Randy McLaughlin <ra...@nospam.com> wrote:
<snip>
> : It means that to replace the functionality new work is required.
>
> : The biggest hurdle is FM, FM requires special hardware and will not be
> : available to all with existing hardware.
>
> Not necessarily true, but likely for FDCs that are incorporated in the
> motherboard. However, if the FDC is 37C65A or NS8473 based there is a
> good chance that the FDC will handle FM.
I understand and I keep a couple of computers that I know handle FM. The
problem is like any princess can tell you, you have to kiss a lot of frogs
to find a prince and you have to test a lot of PC's to find one that handles
FM.
<snip>
For most systems 22disk will work OK. The problems are:
Not all CP/M systems used consistant formatting, some always used FM for
track 00, some always used MFM for track 00. Some used the same formatting
on track 01 as track 00, others did not.
I use way too many OS's: Linux, XP, and 2000 are the ones I use the most.
I keep Windows 98 on a system that handles FM but to save space I keep it
put away. I formatted my laptop as Fat32 on the windoze side (30gb), this
lets me run 22disk from a boot disk and still access the hard drive.
I am going to reload my P4 with three OS's (Linux, XP, Win98) so that it
will be easier to use 22disk.
22disk is getting to be a pain the butt to use. I have programmed DOS based
programs that directly access the FDC but never an NT or Linux based system.
I am unsure of how much effort it would be to create a 22disk type of
program that runs on XP.
I tend to be lazy and may continue to use the Sydex tools until absolutely
forced to change.
Randy
Michael Walden
Randy McLaughlin wrote:
[snip]
>
> 22disk is getting to be a pain the butt to use. I have programmed DOS based
> programs that directly access the FDC but never an NT or Linux based system.
> I am unsure of how much effort it would be to create a 22disk type of
> program that runs on XP.
>
Hello Randy,
For more information about accessing floppy disk drives
under Windows, have a look at the following links.
RawWrite for windows by John Newbigin
http://uranus.it.swin.edu.au/~jn/linux/rawwrite.htm
More info on the disk access under 95 can be found here.
http://uranus.it.swin.edu.au/~jn/linux/diskio/index.htm
dd for windows by John Newbigin
http://uranus.it.swin.edu.au/~jn/linux/rawwrite/dd.htm
Rawrite and related (floppy) disk imaging programs.
http://fdos.org/ripcord/rawrite
I believe that there's some useful source code to get you
started.
--
Michael Walden - Find my email address on my web page
http://voicenet.com/~mwaldenX (remove the last letter)
John Elliott
: 22disk is getting to be a pain the butt to use. I have programmed DOS based
: programs that directly access the FDC but never an NT or Linux based system.
On a Linux system it's quite easy, because the kernel provides functions
to do it. You set up a 'struct floppy_ram_cmd' containing the command bytes
and any data you want to send, then do an
ioctl(fd, FDRAWCMD, &raw_cmd);
and read out the returned values from the structure.
: I am unsure of how much effort it would be to create a 22disk type of
: program that runs on XP.
NT/2000/XP are not so obliging. You either have to use something like
porttalk <http://www.beyondlogic.org/porttalk/porttalk.htm> to blow a hole
in the NT I/O permissions and talk to the FDC directly (fighting NT's own
floppy driver all the way, I don't doubt); or you have to write your own
floppy driver that supports the formats and I/O operations you want.
Microsoft do supply the source of the NT floppy driver with the NT DDK,
which may be a starting point.
CBFalconer
>
... snip ...
>
> it might be interesting that there was one guy who reengineered
> (legally) the code for Teledisk, please have a look at
> http://www.fpns.net/willy/wteledsk.htm .
While that link works, the links to source within it do not.
--
"I'm a war president. I make decisions here in the Oval Office
in foreign policy matters with war on my mind." - Bush.
"Churchill and Bush can both be considered wartime leaders, just
as Secretariat and Mr Ed were both horses." - James Rhodes.
dwight elvey
> Randy,
>
> > Does anyone know of of any other disk image software for handling CP/M
> > disks?
>
> There is e.g. a Windows 3.1/95 tool called Maxidisk (downloadable from
> http://www.cpm.z80.de/share.html). And of course there is rawrite for DOS
> or Unix systems.
> Unfortunately, both tools are not comparable with CopyQM or even Teledisk.
>
> I already negotiated with NTI about getting copies of Teledisk for my CP/M
> User group. The problem was that they wanted 100 US$ per copy,
> with no discount at all (we were talking about 25 copies). As nobody was
> willing to pay these 100 US$, the deal didn't take place.
>
> Bye, Gaby
Hi Gaby
I'm not sure where to jump into this. Reading and writing old
disk on PC is getting harder and harder. I've been dealing with
a number of machines with hard sectored disk. In the normal
sense, these can't be done on a PC without special hardware
( a little about that later ). What I've been doing lately is
transfering disk images over a serial cable. Of course, I've
been dealing with specific machines so far, what I do is to
create a bootstrap that'll load enough code to format, read
and write disk on the target machine. I can then get things
running from there. I think this method is adaptable to most
CP/M machines as well. It would be great to make this into
a generic tool. Since the bootstrap code is only concerned
with the serial port, a few generic bootstraps would cover
most setups by just patching port addresses. Most serial
is done through the older AY3-5-1015 ( forget number ), 8250
or 8251. Much of the disk interface is done with a WD17xx
chip. Again, some port changes here are good ( my machine
actually had a DMA controller all done in descrete logic ).
For those that don't have monitor functions, they almost
always have some ROM someplace. Remember, all that the target
machine needs is the bootstrap code. So far this is about
50 bytes for most machines. One can blow a special ROM
to deal with transfers. Of course if the machine already
has a CP/M up and running, the bootstrap isn't needed.
Now, to talk about special hardware. A few sound boards
and some of the older modems actually used DSP chips that
could be reprogrammed. One I'm familiar with was a Analog
Devices 2116. This processor ran fast enough to bit bang
a floppy. At least for reading. The clock doesn't divide
evenly to disk rates. This kind of setup, can make a universal
disk read/write similar to the CatWeasel.
Currently, I'm working on H89/90, H8's with hard sectored
drives.
Just some thoughts.
Dwight
Herbert Oppmann
> Peter Smith wrote:
>> please have a look at
>> http://www.fpns.net/willy/wteledsk.htm .
> While that link works, the links to source within it do not.
I found the program here:
http://www.devili.iki.fi/pub/archivers/wteledsk.lzh
--
Herbert Oppmann, Nuremberg, Germany
wild bill
wrote:
>Well, no good news.... Yesterday I got a mail from Sydex asking me to remove
>the downloads of Anadisk, CopyQM and Teledisk, as well as the extended
>22disk definitions file. As I had no choice, I removed the files.
Don't know if this matters, but when 22disk first came out I was
already using Uniform, and I never switched. 22disk just seemed
too mickey mouse in comparison, an amateur looking product.
The MicroSolutions folks very kindly sent me their last and as
far as I could find out never-released Uniform, something like
3.07 I think (don't have it handy right now) gratis just for the
asking.
Microsolutions are the folks who built the Compaticards.
22disk never came close to what Uniform and a Compaticard
could do.
Sounds to me like, if sydex or whoever thinks there's money
to be wrung from 'new' disk translation products they're
dead wrong and can go intercourse themselves.
Get a compaticard and check with Microsolutions about
Uniform ... seems to me they ran out of them, but if they
would give permission a copy could be posted for free
distribution ....
Bill
Don Maslin
: On Sat, 29 May 2004 14:43:43 +0200, "Gaby Chaudry" <cha...@gaby.de>
: wrote:
:>Well, no good news.... Yesterday I got a mail from Sydex asking me to remove
:>the downloads of Anadisk, CopyQM and Teledisk, as well as the extended
:>22disk definitions file. As I had no choice, I removed the files.
: Don't know if this matters, but when 22disk first came out I was
: already using Uniform, and I never switched. 22disk just seemed
: too mickey mouse in comparison, an amateur looking product.
Bill, I have used both for years, and both have their own advantages.
Perhaps the major advantage of 22Disk is that it is 'expandable'. That
is, you can write your own disk definition for disks that are not at the
time listed. It will also identify the user level of files when you call
a directory.
Uniform has the advantage of being able to directly access individual
files if the disk is readable by Uniform. With other packages, it also
can access (some) Apple disks, and NorthStar (hard sector) disks. But
Uniform is NOT expandable that I am aware of. Gawd! I wish it were!!!
: The MicroSolutions folks very kindly sent me their last and as
: far as I could find out never-released Uniform, something like
: 3.07 I think (don't have it handy right now) gratis just for the
: asking.
Good timing is hard to beat!
: Microsolutions are the folks who built the Compaticards.
: 22disk never came close to what Uniform and a Compaticard
: could do.
Each is a very strong and useful tool!
: Sounds to me like, if sydex or whoever thinks there's money
: to be wrung from 'new' disk translation products they're
: dead wrong and can go intercourse themselves.
I don't think that is the case.
- don
: Get a compaticard and check with Microsolutions about
CBFalconer
>
... snip ...
>
> Bill, I have used both for years, and both have their own
> advantages. Perhaps the major advantage of 22Disk is that it is
> 'expandable'. That is, you can write your own disk definition
> for disks that are not at the time listed. It will also identify
> the user level of files when you call a directory.
>
> Uniform has the advantage of being able to directly access
> individual files if the disk is readable by Uniform. With other
> packages, it also can access (some) Apple disks, and NorthStar
> (hard sector) disks. But Uniform is NOT expandable that I am
> aware of. Gawd! I wish it were!!!
It must be 15 or 20 years, but I seem to remember patching Uniform
or its disk definition file to expand to some format or other. I
don't remember any details, just that it is feasible. I may have
just overwritten some particular definition.
--
A: Because it fouls the order in which people normally read text.
Q: Why is top-posting such a bad thing?
A: Top-posting.
Q: What is the most annoying thing on usenet and in e-mail?
Herb Johnson
> wild bill <bi...@sunsouthwest.com> wrote:
> : On Sat, 29 May 2004 14:43:43 +0200, "Gaby Chaudry" <cha...@gaby.de>
> : wrote:
>
> :>Well, no good news.... Yesterday I got a mail from Sydex asking me to remove
> :>the downloads of Anadisk, CopyQM and Teledisk, as well as the extended
> :>22disk definitions file. As I had no choice, I removed the files.
>
>
> : to be wrung from 'new' disk translation products they're
> : dead wrong and can go intercourse themselves.
>
> I don't think that is the case.
>
> - don
There seems to be confusion about what Sydex (or NBI) asked Gaby to
do, versus the 22DISK program. Gaby was apparently NOT asked to remove
the 22DISK program,
only the three programs she mentioned above. Those programs, she was
told, were sold to NBI and are in use today and sold today as
"forensic" programs. And, in fact, if one goes to the NBI Web site,
that company offers those programs for sale for that purpose. They
have done so for a few years, I've reported that on my Web site. One
can argue about the merits of these programs, but the owner of any
program is entitiled to their own opinions about their utility and
user base. As to how they limit their sales, that's literally their
business (or their loss).
As for the request to Gaby to remove the extended disk format
definitions, my own speculation is that perhaps that file was similar
to or in part a copy of the extended disk definition file that was
originally provided by SYDEX with
the LICENSED version of 22DISK; a superset of the definitions given
with the earlier shareware distribution of 22DISK. I don't know, this
is a guess, but if that is so that version was not offered in a
shareware distribution.
Again one can argue the issues about whether someone who owns rights
to old software can ask (or demand) to have a previous shareware
version removed from access on a Web site. Frankly I'm not a lawyer so
I will not express legal opinions in public postings - I'm not
qualified. But so far, none of those who have posted such opinions
have suggested they are qualified either. I imagine there is a
discussion group or a Web page where people WITH such credentials have
such discussions - anyone have some pointers?.
Meanwhile, it seems to me that as a matter of good will to software
developers of the past, as I've seen in this newsgroup, that in
general the wishes of those developers have been honored when requests
have been made. It seems reasonable to me to extend goodwill to
subsequent owners of developed software, even if that results in a
loss to open distribution rather than a gain.
In any event, it appears that 22DISK as a shareware release is still
accessable without new restrictions. So arguments about its "loss" are
misdirected, as it's the other programs which were removed. Meanwhile
it seems reasonable for individuals to try to archive and make
available whatever additional disk formats were created INDEPENDENTLY
of Sydex/NBI's, so that users of this product (including licensed
users) can also use those formats. If it happens that 22DISK is also
asked to be removed from Web sites, then those formats would also be
of value to support new or old software which performs similar
functions. And, some developers of related software have responded
accordingly in this thread. I hope archive sites like Gaby's will also
archive those "new" format files recently discussed.
Herb Johnson
Herbert R. Johnson, voice 609-771-1503, New Jersey USA
<a href="http://njcc.com/~hjohnson"> my web site</a>
<a href="http://retrotechnology.com/herbs_stuff"> web site mirror</a>
my email address: hjohnson AAT njcc DOTT com: wait a day and
if that fails, try herbjohnson ATT comcast DOTT net
good used Mac, SGI, 8-inch floppy drives
S-100 IMSAI Altair computers, docs, by "Dr. S-100"
wild bill
wrote:
>wild bill <bi...@sunsouthwest.com> wrote:
>: Don't know if this matters, but when 22disk first came out I was
>: already using Uniform, and I never switched. 22disk just seemed
>: too mickey mouse in comparison, an amateur looking product.
>
>Bill, I have used both for years, and both have their own advantages.
>Perhaps the major advantage of 22Disk is that it is 'expandable'. That
>is, you can write your own disk definition for disks that are not at the
>time listed. It will also identify the user level of files when you call
>a directory.
>
>Uniform has the advantage of being able to directly access individual
>files if the disk is readable by Uniform. With other packages, it also
>can access (some) Apple disks, and NorthStar (hard sector) disks. But
>Uniform is NOT expandable that I am aware of. Gawd! I wish it were!!!
Hmmm. .. well, I suppose it IS possible to find something not listed
but it isn't easy. Just about any disk I ever remember running
across WAS among the Uniform ones ... maybe called something
else, though. You sometimes just had to try .....
Also, you should know, I use BigBoard II's. The monitor will allow
either sector by sector retrieval or whole track (wd1793). Doesn't
care WHAT format is called. You just gotta tell it things like how
big you want the sectors to be. Retrieving 1024 bytes when the disk
contains 256 byte sectors gets you a lot of useless garbage.
Then, look at 80h and see what came in ... disk buffer area.
So instead of experimenting, I usually can figure out the things
like sector size, density, 1-2 sides, interleaving just by mapping
a few sectors. But even better, in the boot sectors is usually
some info about what computer/OS is involved. Anyway, BB II
ROM monitor makes a good disk diagnostic tool. PFM!
Uniform runs in TSR mode ... so a 'uniform' drive is just there,
with a new drive letter ..... read/write like a DOS disk ...
Main thing, though, was that DOS sector editors WORK in uniform.
Got a filename that DOS can't parse? Go in and edit the sector.
Or, make the user area whatever number you want. Really mess
things up if you want.
Tried sydex. didn't like it. later licensing nonsense killed any
latent interest I might have had. Works too mickeymouse.
Then, hard-sector and Apple ... that requires another board that
Micro Solutions made .... forget the name .... there are/were
others, I've got some ... somewhere .... I think I've got some
Apple II's on ISA cards, just to get the Apple Disk II data
inside the PC box ... these things cost more than a standalone
Apple II would have!
Final note ... I think out of Houston was a 68000 based CP/M68k
motherbox, optional plug-in cards for: 6502; Z-80; AND 8086.
You could literally boot ANY popular operating system disk
in this thing. Used 80 track drives, so their 40 track emulation
usually produced a lot of read errors on the 'other' machines.
Oh, it could read it's OWN created disks, but hardly anybody
ELSE could. Rainbow? Something like that. We tried several
out when looking for ways to handle disk production. Way too
complicated. But everything came in ONE (expensive) BOX.
Bill
wild bill
wrote:
>Again one can argue the issues about whether someone who owns rights
>to old software can ask (or demand) to have a previous shareware
>version removed from access on a Web site. Frankly I'm not a lawyer so
>I will not express legal opinions in public postings - I'm not
>qualified. But so far, none of those who have posted such opinions
>have suggested they are qualified either.
Ever heard of free speech? How else are others to learn whatever
it is you think or believe? Or are you simply generally unqualified?
>Meanwhile, it seems to me that as a matter of good will to software
>developers of the past, as I've seen in this newsgroup, that in
>general the wishes of those developers have been honored when requests
>have been made. It seems reasonable to me to extend goodwill to
>subsequent owners of developed software, even if that results in a
>loss to open distribution rather than a gain.
My interest is academic and historical research oriented. Since
I no longer have ANY use for CP/M, or any other early and feature
less operating systems BEYOND mere curiosity and a desire to
preserve the past ACCURATELY; and further since it would be
my argument that old computers and softwares have NO value
as useable computing devices, then use of copyright ownership
to try to DENY access to part of the history of these devices is
against the public interest. Maybe even a coverup of wrongdoing.
As to value ... I used to deal (with a partner) in surplus hard
drives. We bought pallet loads of over-buys and re-sold them.
Sometimes, an OEM did better buying 100 drives, when he
only needed 65, even if he THREW AWAY the extras. Of course
by offering DISCRETION, we were able to find new homes AND
generate income from these extras.
What we were buying were 5 meg drives. For around $600-$800.
EACH. At todays prices, 5 megs of hard drive is worth maybe
a couple cents. Virtually ALL computer resources have similarly
dropped in VALUE. But to keep PRICES up, manufacturers have
had to provide ADDITIONAL features. Lacking in all OLD stuff.
A copyright suit can prove two things: actual infringement WITHOUT
specifying damages AND/OR proof of loss and actual damages.
A suit for the former MAY result in an award of $1 to the plaintiff.
But if academic and historical fits under Fair Use, there will
not be a verdict for the plaintiff - he will LOOSE. And he may
be ordered to pay COSTS.
There won't be any actual provable damages from anything
older than last thursday, given the rate of change in this
business. Okay, maybe the last year? You get the idea.
If you're dumb enough to SELL reproductions of virtually
ANYTHING these days, for PROFIT, you're asking to be
sued. DMCA would have put Japan, Inc out of business
in 1946. Some plaintiffs can make more money SUING
under this idiot law than they ever could SELLING their
worthless and useless crap on the open market.
I know something about the law. I would NEVER want
to represent someone else. The people of this
country have no one to blame but themselves for
turning it into a make-work project for lawyers.
It isn't that hard, folks. There's some things you
got to know; rules you MUST follow, and if you
can't at least understand the word, and attempt to be,
objective, get a lawyer, but beyond that, it isn't magic.
Anyone can do it (as long as we aren't talking an IQ
below maybe room temperature)
Primary thing is you GOTTA be willing to READ.
You want to be the Defendant. You want to find some
way to get the other guy to sue you. NEVER sue him!
As Defendant, you can THEN get a lawyer, either to
represent, OR to assist, and that cost will be recovered
if you 'win' ... which, as Defendant, means if the OTHER
guy DOES NOT WIN. If there's a draw, HE LOOSES.
Because HE forced the matter into the Courts, and
heaven knows there isn't a court in this land hasn't
got better things to do, and will smack him upside
the head to not bring any more nuisance suits.
Email me if you ever get sued ... your #1 weapon
will be Discovery ... and here is where you can
really monkey wrench the other guy, if you've a
mean streak and being sued pisses you off.
By the time he gets done answering your interrogatories,
you will know: all the assets he has; where he's
spent his money for the last 20 years; everything
personal there is to know about him, now and for
many years past; specific details about why he thinks
he owns whatever it is he's suing you for, whether he
actually even has the right to BRING the suit (you can't
sue for something you don't own - even ONE tiny piece
mis-represented as his when it isn't can get his case
thrown out, AND you get costs)(think about it - he is
guilty of theft of intellectual property when he includes
something he doesn't actually own, that belongs to
someone else, even if THEY don't object)
Everybody oughta work a lawsuit, at least once in
their lives ... worth ten extra years of learning in
the school of hard knocks ....
Bill
Gaby Chaudry
> There seems to be confusion about what Sydex (or NBI) asked Gaby to
> do, versus the 22DISK program. Gaby was apparently NOT asked to remove
> the 22DISK program
That is true. Anyway, the problem is somewhat twofold. I'm not sure
whether or not Sydex still sells 22disk or not. At least on the
website they only mention a *service* they offer. But if e.g. you need
the contents of your old disks to be transferred and you live e.g. in
Europe, how can you make use of the service? Send your original disks
over the ocean?? Impossible.
> As for the request to Gaby to remove the extended disk format
> definitions, my own speculation is that perhaps that file was similar
> to or in part a copy of the extended disk definition file that was
> originally provided by SYDEX with
> the LICENSED version of 22DISK;
Yes, it was something like that. It was my own definition file based
on the version from my registered copy, but with a couple of additions
and modifications. The reason why I published it was simple: after two
moves I had no idea where my original 22disk diskette was stored. So I
had no chance to find out which of the definitions where
a) from the shareware version
b) the registered versions
c) added by me
d) modified by me....
It was just the simplest way to make available my additional
definitions.
So, now the only way to publish them is to dig for the original disk
and find out what is different. Or is anybody with a registered
version able and has got the time to make the comparison for me?
Please let me know.
Bye, Gaby
--
Mrs. Gaby Chaudry
http://www.gaby.de
mailto:ga...@gaby.de
Howard M. Harte
no problems. The programs arrived via postal mail on 3.5" floppies.
The extended disk definitions were included. So, from that, I would
assume that Sydex is still selling 22DISK.
I'm sure this has probably been mentioned before, but, just to make this
absolutely clear: 22DISK works only with real MS-DOS or Windows 9x
"Restart in MS-DOS Mode" or from a boot floppy created with "format/s"
under Win9x. It does not work in a "DOS box" under any Win9x/Me, even
in "full screen mode." It also does not work under WinNT/2K/XP, or with
"Microsoft Virtual PC 2004." I haven't tried it with VMware, but I'll
bet it doesn't work with that either. If you try to run 22DISK in
anything other than "real DOS" it may fool you into thinking that it is
working, at least for a while.
Also, 22NICE works great under Win2K and Win XP. The only problem I
have with it is that it blows away the ability to use the command
history in a DOS window, and if you open a program like "notepad.exe"
from a command prompt where you previously ran 22NICE, it hangs up the
command prompt window until you quit the program (ie, notepad.)
22DISK is a bargain, so I would recommend it to anyone who needs this
sort of capability. There are other tools that can work (ie, Cpmtools
for UNIX) but I've had the best luck with 22DISK.
Anyone want to write a installable filesystem (IFS) driver for the CP/M
filesystem for Windows NT/2K/XP? I think that would be the ultimate
solution.
>
> That is true. Anyway, the problem is somewhat twofold. I'm not sure
> whether or not Sydex still sells 22disk or not. At least on the
> website they only mention a *service* they offer. But if e.g. you need
> the contents of your old disks to be transferred and you live e.g. in
> Europe, how can you make use of the service? Send your original disks
> over the ocean?? Impossible.
>
I can DIFF your files vs. the registered and shareware versions if you
want. Just email your files to me.
Don Maslin
: I ordered a 22DISK and 22NICE "site license" last year from Sydex with
: The extended disk definitions were included. So, from that, I would
: assume that Sydex is still selling 22DISK.
But they do not plan a follow-on DOS product. There are plans for a
specialty item that would be available to OEMs only, but that is little
help to us.
Seems like what is needed is for some sharp legal-beagle to research the
legal status of software that was widely distributed as shareware and
then withdrawn from possible registration or simply no longer supported.
It would seem like a quasi public domain situation, but without any
official sanction by the original copyright holder.
If the results of that investigation seemed hopeful, then one would need
to consider the impact of rights to the software being sold to another
entity. That is likely to be a stickier wicket!
: I'm sure this has probably been mentioned before, but, just to make this
: absolutely clear: 22DISK works only with real MS-DOS or Windows 9x
: "Restart in MS-DOS Mode" or from a boot floppy created with "format/s"
: under Win9x. It does not work in a "DOS box" under any Win9x/Me, even
: in "full screen mode." It also does not work under WinNT/2K/XP, or with
: "Microsoft Virtual PC 2004." I haven't tried it with VMware, but I'll
: bet it doesn't work with that either. If you try to run 22DISK in
: anything other than "real DOS" it may fool you into thinking that it is
: working, at least for a while.
Amen, and well stated!
- don
: Also, 22NICE works great under Win2K and Win XP. The only problem I
:>
Sami Rautiainen
>>> please have a look at
>>> http://www.fpns.net/willy/wteledsk.htm .
>
>> While that link works, the links to source within it do not.
>
> I found the program here:
> http://www.devili.iki.fi/pub/archivers/wteledsk.lzh
I'm also carrying shareware version of Teledisk
http://www.devili.iki.fi/pub/archivers/teled212.zip
I haven't been contacted by Sydex, and will keep the shareware version
online for forseeable future.
However, I have approached them some time ago in order to get the disk image
format published to public domain. Answer: absolute no.
--
The suespammers.org mail server is located in California, USA;
do not send unsolicited bulk e-mail or unsolicited commercial
e-mail to my suespammers.org address.