Kaypro 2 Dilema.
The Bruce
value, it would be great to get one that works. In order for that to
happen I would need boot disks which do not seem to exist anymore. My
dilemma is: Should I get the Kaypro 2? Does anyone know where I can get
a Kaypro 2 boot disk (There seem to be Kaypro II images, but those will
not work on the Kaypro 2.) and how I can use it with available media?
On the other hand I could just get it and while I am looking for the
boot disk I could write my own OS for it. But in order to do that I
would need to be able to write this info onto a modern floppy in a
format the Kaypro 2 would understand. Is this possible?
Thanks,
Erik
Ziggy
No, you should just send the Kaypro to me :)
I'm sure someone on here could send you a disk ... Or if you have a 5.25
drive for your PC you could copy one using teledisk..
Doc Shipley
Did you find a boot disk? If you have a DOS PC and a 360KB floppy
drive, I can send you a Teledisk image. If not, we can work out mailing
actual disks.
Doc Shipley
Fred J. Scipione
"The Bruce" <"the bruce"@Nospam.null> wrote in message
news:dc8d9q$a$1...@onion.ccit.arizona.edu...
>I have an opportunity to get a Kaypro 2. Apart from it's
> nostalgic value, it would be great to get one that works. In
> seem to exist anymore. My dilemma is: Should I get the Kaypro
> 2? Does anyone know where I can get a Kaypro 2 boot disk
> (There seem to be Kaypro II images, but those will not work on
> the Kaypro 2.) and how I can use it with available media? On
> the other hand I could just get it and while I am looking for
> the boot disk I could write my own OS for it. But in order to
> do that I would need to be able to write this info onto a
> modern floppy in a format the Kaypro 2 would understand. Is
> this possible?
>
> Thanks,
>
> Erik
I may be able to give you a useful answer if you can supply a
little more information as to what you mean by a Kaypro '2' vs.
a Kaypro 'II'.
The Kaypro Technical Manual is available in .pdf form from
bitsavers.org. It tends to classify models as a '2-83' or a
'2-84'. Can you tell us how many serial & parallel connectors
are on the rear of the unit you are contemplating? Can you
remove the cover and tell us what the mother board type code
is, whether it uses a video controller chip or custom ASICS,
how many serial port chips it has, or whether the modem area
is present or populated? Are the floppy drives full or half-
height? Double density (360k) or high density (1.2M)?
Just to offer you some encouragement, I believe that with an
IBM-PC compatible computer that has a corresponding 360K or
1.2M drive, it is in fact possible to create a bootable system
disk for any model of Kaypro. In particular, if you can
(temporarily) transplant one of the Kaypro drives into the PC,
it becomes a matter of running the drive via 22disk under
DOS. That in turn may require Win98 or earlier on the PC,
or booting the PC into DOS (or FreeDOS) from a bootable floppy.
The web site at http://www.retroarchive.org had the files
I needed to create a bootable system disk for a Kaypro II ('83)
system a friend gave me. I used KayproII.zip, 22NCE132.ZIP,
and 22DSK142.ZIP. You may also find Kaypro2x.zip and
CopyQ324.zip helpful, but neither of the disks I made (from
the 2 'IMAGE.' files) via CopyQM.exe worked on my Kaypro.
There is also somewhere a file called 'KII-kit-07131982.zip'
and another called 'KAYMISC.ZIP' which might have some
additional data you may need.
The process of building my system disk was not unduly hard
in the end, but it was also not transparently straight-forward.
The chief clues I needed came from examining the source code
for the BOOT-ROM and a dump of the file CPM64.COM. The Kaypro
floppy layout only reserves 1 track (5.0K) for the system area,
but the system data occupies 6.125K in a 6.5K block (49
logical sectors of 128 bytes in 13 physical sectors of 512
bytes). The extra 3 physical sectors are cached in an
extension to the directory region at the start of the 2nd track.
The Kaypro uses a non-standard value for the directory mask, so
that the 63 directory entries occupy the first 2K of a 4K region.
The BOOT-ROM knows that the extra system sectors are in the 2nd
2K of the directory region.
The file CPM64.COM is the output from a movecpm.com session.
It is 8.5K in size, and comprises a 2.0K header from the
movecpm.com executable code segment, followed by the resulting
0.125K boot header, a 6.0K system image, and 0.375K of padding.
Now the 22disk program(s) can create system disks as well a
data-only disks. System disks require both a '.lbl' file (with
the system data for a particular system), and an entry in the
corresponding disk definition that references that '.lbl' file.
What a KayproII('83) system label file needs to contain is:
1. A 5K segment for the system track that has the 128 byte
boot header followed by the first 4.875K of the system
image.
2. A 2K segment filled with 0e5h bytes for an empty 64 entry
directory at the start of the 2nd track.
3. The last 1.125K of the system image, followed by 0.375K
of padding (all zeros?) to give a total size of 8.5K (17
contiguous physical sectors of 512 bytes each).
I created the Kaypro system disk definition, the '.lbl'
file, and a system disk (just last night!) as follows:
1. Use 22disk's STRIPIDX.EXE to create the ASCII text file
CPMDISKS.NOI from CPMDISKS.DEF.
2. Move or rename CPMDISKS.DEF to keep it safe.
3. Edit the CPMDISKS.NOI file with edit or notepad. Duplicate
the KAY1 entry, and reliable it KAY0 (digit zero, not letter
Oh). Add a line before the 'END' entry for a label -
'LABEL = KAY2_83' (without the quotes). Save the results
as 'CPMDISKS.DEF'
4. Create the file KAY2_83.LBL from CPM64.COM via DDT (under
22nice.exe) with the following commands (## marks comments
that are not typed)-
rename ddt.com ddt.cpm ## prepare ddt for 22nice
gencom ddt
22nice ## make 22nice TSR for later csave
ddt ## run ddt
F100,1cff,e5 ## fill image area w/ empty sectors
F1d00,7fff,0 ## clear sys data tail and working buffer
Icpm64.com ## import sys data to buffer
R3f00 ## 2K header starts at 4000h
M4800,5bff,100 ## first track (5K) of sys data
M5c00,607f,1d00 ## last 1.125K of sys data
G0 ## Go Zero (exit DDT)
csave 34 KAY2_83.LBL ## save label from memory to file
5. Format Kaypro system floppies via 22disk with the command -
CFMT /KAY0 B:
6. Verify that the floppy is an empty Kaypro disk via -
CDIR /KAY1 B:
7. Copy (CP/M) files to the Kaypro system disk with commands
such as -
DtoC /KAY1 Source\*.* B:
8. Verify the copy via -
CDIR /KAY1 B:
9. Boot the Kaypro from the system disk in its drive A:, and
be happy :-)!
You may have to substitute your own development process for my
step 4. On a Kaypro 2x, Kaypro IV/4 ('83 or '84), or Kaypro 10
(with double sided drives), check the BOOT-ROM source code to
see how large the system region is, and whether it used the
above trick for compatibility, etc.
nos...@nouce.bellatlantic.net
<fjsc...@rochester.rr.com> wrote:
>The Kaypro Technical Manual is available in .pdf form from
>bitsavers.org. It tends to classify models as a '2-83' or a
>'2-84'. Can you tell us how many serial & parallel connectors
>are on the rear of the unit you are contemplating? Can you
>remove the cover and tell us what the mother board type code
>is, whether it uses a video controller chip or custom ASICS,
>how many serial port chips it has, or whether the modem area
>is present or populated? Are the floppy drives full or half-
>height? Double density (360k) or high density (1.2M)?
FYI: The kaypro 2 or II never used a 1.2m high density. In fact
the FDC cannot support such a thing. It was possible to fit
a similar drive and run it as QD (720k) however but that was
off the norm and required Avent TubroROM and matching drive
personality board. I have done the latter.
So the drive possiblities were only single sided or doubled sided
and any PC 360k can format compatable media.
The question of half height or full height is only model and
significant if drive replacement should be needed.
FYI: there are "oddball" machines out there. My 4/84 is not labled
so and worse the drives are mounted 90degrees from all other 4/84s
seen. It was a 1 that got an upgraded mainboard due to failure but
the front pannel doesn't match any kay-1. So it may be a
Pontioldschevrocadabuick, in other words little of all the kaypro
models plus all the Advent goodies and Handyman as well. I also
have a kay-II, that isn't.
Allison
primo
>FYI: there are "oddball" machines out there. My 4/84 is not labled
>so and worse the drives are mounted 90degrees from all other 4/84s
>seen. It was a 1 that got an upgraded mainboard due to failure but
>the front pannel doesn't match any kay-1. So it may be a
>Pontioldschevrocadabuick, in other words little of all the kaypro
>models plus all the Advent goodies and Handyman as well. I also
>have a kay-II, that isn't.
>
Does anyone know what the production run of the Robie was? That was
the oddest Kaypro in my mind. Not that you could still find the 2.2meg
disks anymore.
The Bruce
popped in today and was happy to see all the responses. So here is a
little update.
I bought a Kaypro 2X. The Kaypro came with a Word Star disk that boots
a version of CPM. Does with help in my path to getting a proper boot
disk? I'll get the relevant info posted soon.
Thanks!
Erik
Barry Watzman
tracks. Do you have "Sysgen" on that disk? How about "Movcpm", and
"Format"? If you have those, you are pretty much home free.
The Bruce
> Yes, it suggests that you have a working version of CP/M on the system
> tracks. Do you have "Sysgen" on that disk? How about "Movcpm", and
> "Format"? If you have those, you are pretty much home free.
>
>
The first thing printed during book says its a:
Kaypro 2.04
I boot up an apparently my CPM is 2.2u1.
But alas no, I do not have Sysgen, Movcpm or format.
When I exit the word star menu and I type dir and press return I get the
word star and menu stuff. What are my options now? I am sure I have
not given enough info. Please let me know what other info I can provide.