MFM to IDE Adapter
BrightFame
shaky. Sure would like to be able to use an IDE of which I have
several that would work. Maybe Someone will consider creating a MFM to
IDE Adapter Board that would insert between the MFM Cables and the IDE
Drive. I'm sure there is a lot of Older CP/M machines out there that
would benefit.
Bob in Wisconsin
Tom Lake
news:1fc72e56-6383-4ca9...@8g2000prb.googlegroups.com...
You might be able to get one here:
http://www.s100computers.com/My%20System%20Pages/IDE%20Board/My%20IDE%20Card.htm
Tom L
Herbert Johnson
>
> You might be able to get [a S-100 hard disk controller?] here:
>
> http://www.s100computers.com/My%20System%20Pages/IDE%20Board/My%20IDE...
This is an IDE interface for S-100, not a MFM to IDE "converter" as
Bob (Bright Fame) requested. But it's the more practical solution
because it exists, and the magic "MFM to IDE" only existed as a
several hundred dollars commercial product. Search comp.os.cpm
archives to find the long history of discussing why "MFM to IDE" is
not simple.
But supporting IDE interfaces on Z80 systems has been done since IDE
became available; and discussed here in comp.os.cpm on almost an
annual basis. IDE is a pure digital interface and the IDE drive does
almost all the heavy lifting. Again, old discussions walk through
this.
John's project page above, fails to mention the decades-long history
of GIDE in the CP/M world. Versions of this small IDE interface by
Tilmann Reh of Germany have been available since the 1990's. I have a
Web page on the GIDE, because I first imported the GIDE from Europe
into the USA, in the 1990's; I choose to follow its progress, as does
Tilmann on his site.
http://www.retrotechnology.com/herbs_stuff/gide.html
Various IDE implementations have been done many times for Z80 and
other microcomputers. The Web page mentions some. It can be done with
a 8255 parallel interface chip, if your CPU is reasonably fast. Many
old S-100 cards have that chip and it's not hard to add one "from
scratch". But you can build an IDE interface with the same effort,
probably including the one at s100-computers.com.
And, recent discussion here on a microSD flash card controller with
SERIAL interface (not SPI) offers another hardware-simple and cheaper
solution which only requires a UART/serial port.
Herb Johnson
retrotechnology.com
PC Pete
<herbrj...@gmail.com> wrote:
>This is an IDE interface for S-100, not a MFM to IDE "converter" as
>Bob (Bright Fame) requested. But it's the more practical solution
>because it exists, and the magic "MFM to IDE" only existed as a
>several hundred dollars commercial product. Search comp.os.cpm
>archives to find the long history of discussing why "MFM to IDE" is
>not simple.
It would be much more straightforward to design a SASI/SCSI-to-IDE
interface, rather than capture the analogue high-speed differential
signalling at the MFM end.
I'm not saying it would be "simple", but translating the digital (and
inherently deterministic) interface would be an order of magnitude
less difficult. It would result in much faster (and probably more
reliable) and MUCH lower-powered data access.
It's surprising (to me, with my limited vocabulary of almost entirely
SASI-only and SCSI-only HDD Z-80 interfaces) that this option hasn't
been done to death already. Which means it must have been! :)
-PCP
Steven Hirsch
> It's surprising (to me, with my limited vocabulary of almost entirely
> SASI-only and SCSI-only HDD Z-80 interfaces) that this option hasn't
> been done to death already. Which means it must have been! :)
These most definitely exist. I have one in my Alpha UP2000+ system. The box
has an Adaptec 39160 SCSI controller and the converter lets me put a
100-something GB IDE drive on line.
I've seen them for 50-pin SCSI as well.
Steve
PC Pete
wrote:
>These most definitely exist. I have one in my Alpha UP2000+ system. The box
>has an Adaptec 39160 SCSI controller and the converter lets me put a
>100-something GB IDE drive on line.
>
>I've seen them for 50-pin SCSI as well.
know if the manufacturer is still "alive"?
If there were such a beast designed for SASI, that would be a bonus.
If not, I've still got my SASI I/F schematics that might be worth
digging into.
I know a few Pulsar LBB system owners who would definitely be
interested in extending the life/reliability of their HDD systems!
If only I had another 12 or 13 hours a day, I'd jump in and design
something, no questions asked. I had to write a SASI drive exerciser
in assembler, and I still have the source (in printed format at
least). So I'm not too rusty. Ah well, if it isn't already a real
product, I'll add it to the list of stuff I need to design - alongside
the 8" to 5" FDD adapter, STD bus monitor, 2797 upgrade, etc!
If anyone else has seen anything similar to a SASI-to-IDE adapter
(especially if it was or is available in Australia), I'd be really
interested to hear from youse!
Cheers,
PCPete
Steven Hirsch
> On Thu, 24 Feb 2011 18:55:22 -0500, Steven Hirsch<snhi...@gmail.com>
> wrote:
>> These most definitely exist. I have one in my Alpha UP2000+ system. The box
>> has an Adaptec 39160 SCSI controller and the converter lets me put a
>> 100-something GB IDE drive on line.
>>
>> I've seen them for 50-pin SCSI as well.
> Steve, do you remember who made your device? More to the point, do you
> know if the manufacturer is still "alive"?
The unit I used was an ACARD AEC-7726H. Judging from the product matrix on
the box, you would want an ARS-2000FU or AEC-7720U. The first is an entire
5.25" frame + adapter, the second is a card with enhanced firmware to support
optical drives (CD/DVD) in addition to hard disks.
I found quite a number of sources in a quick Google search. Unfortunately,
these devices have become (in my opinion) hideously expensive - perhaps 4-6x
what I recall paying for my units.
Check out acard's web site. All models appear current, albeit with usurious
price tags.
Steve
Herbert Johnson
> The [SCSI to IDE] unit I used was an ACARD AEC-7726H.
> I found quite a number of sources in a quick Google search. Unfortunately,
> these devices have become (in my opinion) hideously expensive - perhaps 4-6x
> what I recall paying for my units.
I think I saw maybe two manufacturers, and several dealers of them.
Dealer prices were cheaper.
THere may have been a time when SCSI to IDE items were made by several
companies, in volume. So there was competition and volume to keep
prices down. Even so, current prices (I saw) of $150-$250 are not
awful. I recall MFM to (Something) converters were SEVERAL hundred
dollars in an earlier era. Steve, did you really pay under $50 for
your Acard converter, and if so when?
Herb Johnson
retrotechnology.com
Steven Hirsch
I definitely recall them being in the vicinity of $40-50 when purchased, which
would have been about 6-7 years ago.
Steven Hirsch
> Yes, I think you are right. An MFM to IDE converter would be very
> complex and complicated. It is unlikely to exist in any form
> especially as a hobbyist project. The MFM ST506/ST412 very complex
> and most controllers are unique to their drives. Rarely can an MFM
> harddrive formatted on one controller be successfully operated and
> data read on a different manufacturer's controller.
>
> I do not see how a ST506/ST412 to IDE interface is practical due to
> the speed of processing the realtime data. A Catweasel like device
> for floppy drives generates a good amount of data on just plain floppy
> disks at 125Kbps, 250Kbps, 500 Kbps signals. Scaling up to ST506/
> ST412 data rates would be quite dramatic -- 5MB or greater. As Herb
> said, this topic has been hashed out repeatedly here and elsewhere.
Andrew,
The nuts and bolts have already been done. See the cctech mailing list for
threads discussing Philip Pemberton's DiscFerret. The PIC CPU he uses is fast
enough to manage acquisition from an ST-506 MFM drive. Discferret is designed
for track-at-a-time reads/writes with transfers to a host PC over USB. The
core logic could certainly form the basis of an MFM-IDE adapter. Not a
beginner's project, but certainly feasible.
ClemFM
Just noticed your post whilst looking for a SASI to SCSI adaptor and thought this may interest you also, however it won't be cheap.
http://www.peripheral-vision.com/legacy.htm
ClemFM
monah...@gmail.com
The two issues I had with the board are: it is specific for the Z80 and could nor be used with our other boards, 68K, 8086, 80286 80386 ... etc. in the future. I suppose you could in a master/slave S100 bus style write a BIOS to flip in/out the Z80 for disk I/O but this would be a real bottleneck in faster systems.
Secondly if I remember correctly no source code of the driver was available. perhaps I am wrong. Also are the "adaptors" still available
John
jopr...@gmail.com
Joseph Oprysko
Steven Hirsch
David also offers bare boards if you want to save money by building your own.
It's an amazing device that has brought new life to dozens of classic
computers with failing and irreplaceable hard drives.
dr_...@ntlworld.com
I designed this board, based on other similar approaches, when I discovered that GIDE cards were not available. They are cheap and easy to build and can be used with a shim to connect to any Z80 computer. The driver code is derived from Grant Searle's IDE driver as implemented in his 9 chip CP/M computer. I produced a specific version for the Amstrad PCW computers as well as a set of drivers for Lifeboat CP/M running on the TRS-80 Model II. These drivers should be easy to port to other CP/Ms as Lifeboat is very vanilla - it has MOVCPM and SYSGEN, unlike (for example) the Intertec Superbrain's implementation...
j...@mdfs.net
> It would be much more straightforward to design a SASI/SCSI-to-IDE
> interface, rather than capture the analogue high-speed differential
> signalling at the MFM end.
you to plug an IDE device into a SCSI/SASI interface, such as
BeebSCSI: http://www.domesday86.com/?page_id=400
and http://www.domesday86.com/?page_id=403
BeebSCSI "look like" the SCSI/SASI interface to the host computer,
what you would need is for a similar device to "look like" the
SCSI/SASI device itself.
gulgul2006
If you could hook up your MFM drive to a more modern system this would solve a lot of your problems.
Extracting data being the goal, you mount the drive in any OS you want... linux perhaps.. and get the data off onto that PC's local storage or over the network or to USB..etc.
This has been done by the way...
https://hackaday.com/2018/10/10/recovering-data-from-a-vintage-mfm-drive/
Peter Higgins
Bob started this discussion because he wanted a solid state replacement for the aging Quantum Q540 connected to his CompuPro 816 system. The easiest way to do that now (which didn't exist back in 2011) is to use the DREM MFM drive emulator - it can easily be configured to emulate the Q540's geometry, and directly supports the drive format generated by the CompuPro Disk3 MFM drive controller. The only setup required is to create an blank file on the DREM's SD card equivalent in size to the formatted capacity of the Q540, and to modify a configuration file on the same SD card to specify "CompuPro Disk3 format" - from that point, it is "plug and play". See https://www.drem.info/