WTD: Z-80 card for IBM PC
SHo...@221b.com
Lightning, Blue Thunder, Earth Computers? Yes, I do use MYZ80 but I
would like a card to use on an XT which has a controller for my 8"
drives. Thanks.
bob...@ix.netcom.com
emulator but I would like a card to use on an XT which has a
Don Maslin
: Does anyone have a Z-80 ISA card they can part with? Baby Blue, Blue
: Lightning, Blue Thunder, Earth Computers? Yes, I do use the MYZ80
: emulator but I would like a card to use on an XT which has a
: controller for my 8" drives. Thanks.
If you cannot find one, you can always use Sydex' 22Nice.
- don
Will Rose
: Does anyone have a Z-80 ISA card they can part with? Baby Blue, Blue
: Lightning, Blue Thunder, Earth Computers? Yes, I do use the MYZ80
: emulator but I would like a card to use on an XT which has a
: controller for my 8" drives. Thanks.
I've got a Baby Blue II, but it can't handle anything over a 4.77MHz
clock. You'd be better off with a Compaticard to handle the drives.
Ken Ganshirt
> I've got a Baby Blue II, but it can't handle anything over a 4.77MHz
> clock. You'd be better off with a Compaticard to handle the drives.
Any idea where a guy can order a Compaticard? I've checked out Micro
Solutions site and they don't even list it. I also checked all the mail
order places that Micro Solutions show links to from their site and none
of them have it listed.
...ken...
**** ken.ga...@sk.sympatico.ca ****
Don Maslin
: ...ken...
: **** ken.ga...@sk.sympatico.ca ****
They are no longer manufactured. Your only chance is to get one from
its present owner. Finding one is problematic. But if you already
have an operable 8" on your XT, you do not *need* the CompatiCard.
- don
do...@cts.com
*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*
Don Maslin - Keeper of the Dina-SIG CP/M System Disk Archives
Chairman, Dina-SIG of the San Diego Computer Society
Clinging tenaciously to the trailing edge of technology.
Sysop - Elephant's Graveyard (CP/M) Z-Node 9 - 619-454-8412
*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*
see old system support at http://www.psyber.com/~tcj
visit the "Unofficial" CP/M Web site at http://cws86.kyamk.fi/mirrors/cpm
with Mirror at http://www.mathcs.emory.edu/~cfs/cpm
Will Rose
: Will Rose wrote:
: > I've got a Baby Blue II, but it can't handle anything over a 4.77MHz
: > clock. You'd be better off with a Compaticard to handle the drives.
: Any idea where a guy can order a Compaticard? I've checked out Micro
: Solutions site and they don't even list it. I also checked all the mail
: order places that Micro Solutions show links to from their site and none
: of them have it listed.
They are no longer sold - you have to find one in this newsgroup, or
at a swapmeet.
Will Rose
: Ken Ganshirt (ken.ga...@sk.sympatico.ca) wrote:
: : Will Rose wrote:
: : > I've got a Baby Blue II, but it can't handle anything over a 4.77MHz
: : > clock. You'd be better off with a Compaticard to handle the drives.
: : Any idea where a guy can order a Compaticard? I've checked out Micro
: : Solutions site and they don't even list it. I also checked all the mail
: : order places that Micro Solutions show links to from their site and none
: : of them have it listed.
: : ...ken...
: : **** ken.ga...@sk.sympatico.ca ****
: They are no longer manufactured. Your only chance is to get one from
: its present owner. Finding one is problematic. But if you already
: have an operable 8" on your XT, you do not *need* the CompatiCard.
And in fact, I think some standard XT floppy cards could handle 8"
drives, since they were so similar to 1.2s. I'd forgotten that.
bob...@ix.netcom.com
>And in fact, I think some standard XT floppy cards could handle 8"
>drives, since they were so similar to 1.2s. I'd forgotten that.
>
>
>Will
>c...@crash.cts.com
From the CP/M FAQ:
Q14: Can I read my 8" disks with my PC?
A: (John Baker, Tom Sullivan)
With a program called 22disk, and an adaptor board that you can
make, you can read those disks on your PC. All it takes is
rearranging some of the lines on the 34 pin cable, and wiring them
to the 50 pin cable, and you're in business.
The interface on 8" drives and 5 1/4" drives are essentially the
same. The 34 lines on a typical 5 1/4" controller are sufficient
to
control most 8" disk drives using soft-sectored disks. Here, is a
diagram for a basic conversion cable to allow connection of an 8"
drive to an IBM-compatible, AT-style (high density) controller.
8" disk drive
PC-AT style controller Based on Shugart
SA-851
Grnd. Sig. Sig. Name Sig Name Sig
Grnd
1 2 Double/High Density ->>
>>- Write Current Switch/ 2
1
Active Read Compensation
User Customizable I/O pins 4
3
" " " " 6
5
33 34 **Ready ---------------<<------------ True Ready 8
7
<<-------------#Two Sided 10
9
33 34 **Disk Change ---------<<----------- Disk Change 12
11
31 32 Side 1 Select ------->>-----------#Side Select 14
13
3 4 In Use/Open --------->>---------------- In Use 16
15
15 16 *Motor On ------------>>------------- Head Load 18
17
7 8 Index ---------------<<----------------- Index 20
19
33 34 **Ready ---------------<<----------------- Ready 22
21
<<---------------##Sector 24
23
9 10 Drive Select 0 ------>>-------- Drive Select 1 26
25
11 12 Drive Select 1 ------>>-------- Drive Select 2 28
27
13 14 Drive Select 2 ------>>-------- Drive Select 3 30
29
5 6 Drive Select 3 ------>>-------- Drive Select 4 32
31
17 18 Direction Select ---->>------ Direction Select 34
33
19 20 Step ---------------->>------------------ Step 36
35
21 22 Write Data ---------->>------------ Write Data 38
37
23 24 Write Gate ---------->>------------ Write Gate 40
39
25 26 Track 00 ------------<<-------------- Track 00 42
41
27 28 Write Protect -------<<--------- Write Protect 44
43
29 30 Read Data -----------<<------------- Read Data 46
45
<<------##Separation Data 48
47
<<-----##Separation Clock 50
49
This diagram also works in the other direction--that is, to attach
high-density 5 1/4" drives to an 8" controller.
Notes:
* - It seems to be a logical substitution since the vast majority
of
8" drives have continuously running spindles and instead of
MOTOR ON require a HEAD LOAD signal. Also, a controller sends
MOTOR ON before a DRIVE SELECT.
**- Most 5 1/4" disk drives do not provide a READY signal but send
a
DISK CHANGE signal on line 34 of the interface. An 8" drive
has
provisions for both signals. Likewise, most AT-style
controllers expect a DISK CHANGE signal on line 34, so lines 33
and 34 should be connected to lines 11 and 12 of the 8" disk
connector. Also, some 8" drives provide a TRUE_READY signal
which is more useful than the standard READY.
# - Unused on single sided drives (SA-800/801).
##- Used only on hard-sector configured drives (SA-801/851).
Some 5 1/4" disk drives have the option of providing _either_ DISK
CHANGE _or_ READY on line 34 (in particular, the TEAC FD55R
series). Some 8" disk controllers do not care about the DISK
CHANGE
signal, but must have the READY signal. If you are attaching a
high-density 5 1/4" drive to an 8" controller, you may get away
with
making the drive always ready by shorting lines 21 and 22, but this
may cause a few re-tries when switching sides. If your drive
offers
a READY signal that your controller can deal with, by all means use
it.
The MOTOR ON/HEADLOAD dilemma may also have an alternate solution
if
you are connecting 5 1/4" drives to an 8" controller. Some 5 1/4"
drives permit motor turn-on by means other than the MOTOR ON
signal. For example, the TEAC FD55R series of drives may be
configured to turn the motor on based on the state of the IN USE
light. The IN USE light can, in turn, be set to turn on only on
drive select. Thus selecting the drive automatically turns on the
motor and neither a MOTOR ON or IN USE signal need be present.
Another way to handle 8 inch drives on a PC is with a
Microsolutions
Compaticard IV, if you can find one. (MicroSolutions no longer
offers this product.) It has the necessary software support to
properly handle 8 inch drives, and in both SSSD and DSDD. This
controller can be set up as both a primary controller, or as a
secondary. It can support 4 drives, of any type, including 2.8 meg.
It supports two MSDOS 8 inch formats, SSSD (about 250k) and DSDD
(1.2 meg). It works perfectly with 22disk, and can read and write
almost any 8 inch CP/M format.
The full FAQ can be found at:
ftp://rtfm.mit.edu/pub/usenet-by-group/comp.os.cpm
or:
http://www.psyber.com/%7Etcj/
Bob Stek
bob...@ix.netcom.com
Saver of Lost SOLs
John D. Baker
is now a part of the CP/M FAQ, I finally built such an adapter only a
few months ago.
I simply wired up the "B:" drive (straight cable) section of a standard
PeeCee floppy cable to a 50-pin male header, matching up analogous signals.
(Actually, my 8" drive package was jumpered for DS2,DS3 (C:,D:), so I
connected DS1(FDC) to DS2 in the 50-pin header, so I wouldn't have
to re-jumper my drive package).
Plugged it together and it worked like a champ! I checked it out with
some of my old 8" disk formats for my SVA ZVX4 and AppliCard/CardZ180,
even SSSD--it worked great.
I used this rig and Sydex's AnaDisk to make dump files of some OS-9
disks from an SWTPC 6809 box.
Lately, I've been answering more and more questions on this kind of
adapter, but the principal inquirer has demonstrated that he hasn't
the first clue about 8" drives.
(I thought I only had to deal with people like this at work...)
--
John D. Baker I hear, and I forget.
jdb...@blkbox.com I see, and I remember.
http://www.blkbox.com/~jdb8042/ I do, and I understand.
Amiga, OS/2, Linux -- The cure for M$. - Ancient Chinese Proverb
Tmckean
>Date: 12/26/98 10:49 PM Central Standard Time
>Message-id: <iFLHULg4UcfBn.5hgty...@mail.blkbox.com>
>
>"BICUSPID" BARRY BOUWSMA BORINGLY BITES BIG BAD BRITISH BISEXUAL BACKSTREET
>BULLDOGS !!!
Odd... That message was stamped the SAME TIME as the one *I* supposedly left
saying the same thing. Someone is having a good laugh, I am sure. Well, more
power to you, guy...
Thomas
Ken Ganshirt
>
> Ken Ganshirt (ken.ga...@sk.sympatico.ca) wrote:
> : Any idea where a guy can order a Compaticard?
>
> at a swap meet.
>
Actually I got a line on a computer store somewhere in the Midwest that
may still have some. They're not cheap, but if anyone needs one, let me
know and I'll arrange to get you a phone number.
Fortunately I don't need one now. Thanks to a passing comment by
someone elsewhere in this newsgroup, I figured out how to get it to work
with my existing system. Someone mentioned that they had to reboot
their system into MS-DOS mode for some emulator to work. <sound of hand
slapping forehead!> I realized what I should have figured out by myself
-- Windows and Win 95 both show virtual devices to programs, even in a
DOS window. For something like 22Disk to work, it has to be able to
manhandle the floppy controller directly. So I rebooted from Win 95
into MS-DOS mode and, Bingo!, 22Disk works like a charm.
I must have a pretty decent floppy controller, because I can even read
my original SS/SD Os-1 floppies, even though 22Disk warns that it might
not work for that format. (For the technically curious, this is on a
Dell 486/50 running Win 95 and the floppy drive is one of those deals
that has both a 3.5 and 5.25 in a single half-height drive. It's the
only system I have left with a 5.25" floppy drive.)
Thanks to everyone for all the help, and especially to whoever made the
mention of rebooting into DOS mode.
Next test is to see how well the MYZ80 emulator will handle Os-specific
programs that make use of the Os's banked memory. (For the technically
curious, I'm running the emulator in a DOS window under Win 95 on an AMD
K6/200MHz clone that I assembled myself from components. So far the
emulator seems to run just fine in a DOS window, without rebooting to
DOS Mode or slowing the CPU.)
...ken...
**** ken.ga...@sk.sympatico.ca ****
Phil Clayton
Please email me... Will pay a fair price and shipping costs..
Phil...
gkl...@seganet.com
On 1998-12-29 ken.ga...@sk.sympatico.ca said:
>...Someone mentioned that they had to reboot their system into
>MS-DOS mode for some emulator to work. <sound of hand slapping
>forehead!> I realized what I should have figured out by myself
>-- Windows and Win 95 both show virtual devices to programs, even
>in a DOS window. For something like 22Disk to work, it has to be
>able to manhandle the floppy controller directly. So I rebooted
>from Win 95 into MS-DOS mode and, Bingo!, 22Disk works like a charm.
Probably the best feature of WIN-DOZE Ninety-Five is "bootgui=0."
Voila! MS-DOS 7.0. :)
=Return address is mangled to deter spam. Remove all "g"s to e-mail.=
Net-Tamer V 1.08X - Test Drive
Amardeep S. Chana
<36899CB0...@sk.sympatico.ca>...
>
> I must have a pretty decent floppy controller, because I can even read
> my original SS/SD Os-1 floppies, even though 22Disk warns that it might
> not work for that format. (For the technically curious, this is on a
> Dell 486/50 running Win 95 and the floppy drive is one of those deals
> that has both a 3.5 and 5.25 in a single half-height drive. It's the
> only system I have left with a 5.25" floppy drive.)
>
Ken,
I recently did a study to find out what will and what won't do single
density. Here are my findings so far:
Will support single density / FM:
NS PC87306 Super I/O
SMC FDC37C65
SMC FDC37C78
Most SMC Super I/O chips
Will NOT support single density / FM:
NS 8473
NS PC87332* Super I/O
NS PC97307* Super I/O
WD FDC37C65
Most (if not all) Intel parts
Any Winbond part
Any UMC part
Reportedly will do single density / FM but NOT verified:
NS 8477
Intel 82077AA
Goldstar Super I/O
The NS PC87306 is found in a lot of Dell and Compaq machines from the
486-50Mhz models to the Pentium-90 models. Most Super Micro Pentium
motherboards using the PCI HX chipset also used that super I/O.
*NOTE: It is important to verify the part number on the chip itself. Many
of these newer NS parts will identify themselves to software as PC87306,
but do NOT support single density.
Best regards,
Amardeep
Don Maslin
: Ken Ganshirt <ken.ga...@sk.sympatico.ca> wrote in article
: <36899CB0...@sk.sympatico.ca>...
: >
: > I must have a pretty decent floppy controller, because I can even read
: > my original SS/SD Os-1 floppies, even though 22Disk warns that it might
: > not work for that format. (For the technically curious, this is on a
: > Dell 486/50 running Win 95 and the floppy drive is one of those deals
: > that has both a 3.5 and 5.25 in a single half-height drive. It's the
: > only system I have left with a 5.25" floppy drive.)
: >
: Ken,
: I recently did a study to find out what will and what won't do single
: density. Here are my findings so far:
Amardeep, I fear that I must question your study. I believe that you
are ascribing to some of the chips the shortcomings of the FDC
manufacturer. For example, both the NS 8473 and the WD 37C65 will
most assuredly support FM. I have DTK FDC cards with the 8473 and
read Osborne 1 disks with them just prior to writing this. Likewise,
I have the WD 37C65 in the WD FOX card and it will also read/write
FM. On that basis, I must have reservations about some of your other
determinations.
- don
: Will support single density / FM:
: NS PC87306 Super I/O
: SMC FDC37C65
: SMC FDC37C78
: Most SMC Super I/O chips
: Will NOT support single density / FM:
: NS 8473
: NS PC87332* Super I/O
: NS PC97307* Super I/O
: WD FDC37C65
: Most (if not all) Intel parts
: Any Winbond part
: Any UMC part
: Reportedly will do single density / FM but NOT verified:
: NS 8477
: Intel 82077AA
: Goldstar Super I/O
: The NS PC87306 is found in a lot of Dell and Compaq machines from the
: 486-50Mhz models to the Pentium-90 models. Most Super Micro Pentium
: motherboards using the PCI HX chipset also used that super I/O.
: *NOTE: It is important to verify the part number on the chip itself. Many
: of these newer NS parts will identify themselves to software as PC87306,
: but do NOT support single density.
: Best regards,
: Amardeep
*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*
Don Maslin - Keeper of the Dina-SIG CP/M System Disk Archives
Chairman, Dina-SIG of the San Diego Computer Society
Clinging tenaciously to the trailing edge of technology.
Sysop - Elephant's Graveyard (CP/M) Z-Node 9 - 619-454-8412
*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*
see old system support at http://www.psyber.com/~tcj
visit the "Unofficial" CP/M Web site at http://devili.iki.fi/cpm
Pete Cervasio
<asc...@ibm.net> wrote:
[snip]
>I recently did a study to find out what will and what won't do single
>density. Here are my findings so far:
[snip]
>Reportedly will do single density / FM but NOT verified:
>
> NS 8477
> Intel 82077AA
[more snip]
I don't know if you'll take this as a verification, but I just
formatted a single density disk on my TRS-80 Model 4 this weekend that
both of my PCs were able to read and write. I've got 82077's in my
ASUS VX-97 and IWILL P54TS (both PCI/ISA socket 7 boards).
With the two PCs I was able to use Anadisk to look at the sectors and
tested writing by putting a new "no operating system" message in the
boot sector. When I booted the disk on my Model 1, it came up just
fine with the new message.
I also was able to mount the disk in the Model 4 emulator by Jeff
Vavasour and copy files to it that were readable in both of the
TRS-80s. This was all under TRSDOS/LS-DOS 6. I *do* have Montezuma
CP/M for the Model 4 but it's packed away right now. (As all the
comp.os.cpm people start booing and hissing at me!)
I only had two problems, and still have one. The first one I "fixed".
The post-index gap (that set of FFh bytes between the index hole and
the first sectors address mark) had to be increased from 14 to about
40 bytes. Once I did that, I had a perfectly readable single density
TRSDOS (actually - LS-DOS) disk, and it's usable with the emulator
running in a Win95 dos box.
The remaining problems is that I can't get the PC to =format= a good
single density track for anything. I wind up with one sector that has
the correct id/data marks and good CRCs. Every other sector will have
strange track/sector/head/length fields and invalid data CRCs (but the
address CRCs are fine, though for the wierd/wrong information). I
only tried 256 byte sectors, since that's what the TRS-80 likes to
use.
For the comp.sys.tandy folks that are interested, the patch I applied
goes in LS-DOS's FORMAT/ASM around line 772 (the third line of the
table labeled S5TBL) and the change is to make the 14 a 40 (and
reassemble). In case anyone missed the announcement (some time ago)
the LSDOS 6.3.1 (TRSDOS 6) source files are available on Tim Mann's
site:
http://www.research.digital.com/SRC/personal/Tim_Mann/trs80.html
Best regards,
Pete C.
=====================================================================
I'm really cervasio at airmail dot net if you want to email me, or go
to http://www.kjsl.com/trs80/ and pick the email link there.
All SPAM forwarded to ab...@airmail.net for appropriate action
=====================================================================
Ken Ganshirt
> The remaining problems is that I can't get the PC to =format= a good
> single density track for anything. I wind up with one sector that has
> the correct id/data marks and good CRCs. Every other sector will have
> strange track/sector/head/length fields and invalid data CRCs (but the
> address CRCs are fine, though for the wierd/wrong information). I
> only tried 256 byte sectors, since that's what the TRS-80 likes to
> use.
>
Are you using a low density drive (e.g. 360K floppy drive) or a high
density drive (1.2MB) on the PC to do the formatting? If you are using a
high density drive, you must keep in mind that the heads on it are much
narrower than a low density drive, therefore the tracks it writes are much
narrower. If there is anything previously written on the floppy, a low
density drive will see a great deal of "noise" when it tries to read.
There is only one sure way to be able to write/format on a high density
drive and read it reliably in a low density drive, and that's to make sure
the drive is magnetically totally "clean" before you write/format with the
high density drive.
There are two ways you can do this. The first is that you can format the
low density disk in the low density drive to lay down nice clean low
density tracks, then write on it only with the high density drive, so you
don't "corrupt" it again with the low density drive.
The second way, for those who don't have the ability to format with the
low density drive, is to use a big magnet to "clean" the floppy. I use an
electromagnet that I bought from Radio Shack years ago. Use the magnet to
completely "wipe" all magnetic info from the floppy. Now format at low
density with the high density drive. As above, never write on it with the
low density drive.
I hope that made some sense. The above explanation comes from much
experience moving data between systems with high and low density drives.
I first ran into the problem when I upgraded my Osborne-1 by adding a
couple of double-sided, quad-density drives, and I had no end of trouble
whenever I used one of those drives to write onto floppies I had been
writing on with the original low-density drives.
Then there were the early days of the original PC's, back when we were
going through the transition from systems with only 360K floppy drives to
systems with only 1.2MB floppies. I was in PC Support back in those days,
and it was no end of fun trying to support work groups with a mix of
systems within their group!!
Of course, you might have a completely different problem, but I can never
resist an opportunity to reminisce. <grin>
...ken...
Amardeep S. Chana
<91506427...@optional.cts.com>...
[snip]
>
> Amardeep, I fear that I must question your study. I believe that you
> are ascribing to some of the chips the shortcomings of the FDC
> manufacturer. For example, both the NS 8473 and the WD 37C65 will
> most assuredly support FM. I have DTK FDC cards with the 8473 and
> read Osborne 1 disks with them just prior to writing this. Likewise,
> I have the WD 37C65 in the WD FOX card and it will also read/write
> FM. On that basis, I must have reservations about some of your other
> determinations.
> - don
>
Hi Don,
I understand your reservations and can address every issue. I did not go
into enough detail in the first posting to fully support my assertions.
> : Will support single density / FM:
>
> : NS PC87306 Super I/O
> : SMC FDC37C65
> : SMC FDC37C78
> : Most SMC Super I/O chips
>
The above parts are completely stand alone with on board filters, write
precomp generators, and data separators. They should work with FM in any
board implementation, unless something specific is done to prevent it (not
likely). This is per the National and SMSC (new name for SMC
semiconductor) data sheets. I have tested the NS PC87306 and SMC FDC37C65
using Jeff Vavasour's Model 4 emulator and Tim Mann's xtrs 2.8 under Linux.
They both read and write FM with no problems.
> : Will NOT support single density / FM:
>
> : NS 8473
> : NS PC87332* Super I/O
> : NS PC97307* Super I/O
> : WD FDC37C65
> : Most (if not all) Intel parts
> : Any Winbond part
> : Any UMC part
>
The 1988 data sheet for the NS 8473 states on page 8-32, "While the
controller and data separator support both FM and MFM encoding, the filter
switch circuitry only supports the IBM standard MFM data rates. To provide
both FM and MFM filters external logic may be necessary."
Every 8473 board I have tried failed to write FM. However, it may be
possible to read FM on some boards if the external filters have a wide
enough Q.
The NS PC87332 & NS PC97307 are standalone and by design do not support FM
(verified on the National data sheets).
The only information I have on the WD FDC37C65 is the Always IN2000 card I
have with that chip cannot read or write FM. I suspect it is also
dependent on implementation.
I have new information on Intel...
Intel 8272 is a NEC 765 clone and therefore dependent on implementation.
Intel 82077AA and 82077SL - data sheet clearly states these parts support
FM.
Thanks to Pete Cervasio for testing and reporting that the 82077 does
indeed read and write FM.
Intel 82078 - data sheet clearly states these parts will NOT support FM.
I haven't yet investigated the new Intel Super I/O chip which is replacing
the 82078.
The Winbond and UMC chips have never worked on any adapter or motherboard
I've ever encountered them on. No idea if its the chip or the
implementation.
> : Reportedly will do single density / FM but NOT verified:
>
> : NS 8477
> : Intel 82077AA
> : Goldstar Super I/O
>
The NS 8477 data sheet indicates that it does support FM (it is
functionally and pin for pin compatible with the Intel 82077). The
Goldstar Super I/O was reported to work with FM in a newsgroup posting I
read once but have never been able to confirm it.
Hope that clarifies things :)
Amardeep
Don Maslin
: I understand your reservations and can address every issue. I did not go
: into enough detail in the first posting to fully support my assertions.
*** snip ***
: I haven't yet investigated the new Intel Super I/O chip which is replacing
: the 82078.
Another chip that you might want to evaluate is the Motorola MCS3201FN.
While not terribly common, the two examples that I have been exposed
suggest that it does not support FM.
: The Winbond and UMC chips have never worked on any adapter or motherboard
: I've ever encountered them on. No idea if its the chip or the
: implementation.
Likewise on UMC.
*** snip ***
: Hope that clarifies things :)
Thanks for the response, Amardeep.
- don
Don Maslin
: Pete Cervasio wrote:
Actually, the better approach is to (sort of) combine your second and your
first methods. Only, do the formatting on the high density drive
which assures that the format track laid down is not surrounded by
spurious signal.
- don
: I hope that made some sense. The above explanation comes from much
Pete Cervasio
<asc...@ibm.net> wrote:
[snip]
>> : Will NOT support single density / FM:
>>
>> : Any Winbond part
Just a quick follow up to the group to summarize the email (and add
something). I checked the actual chips on my boards and the ASUS is
using a Winbond W83877F chip, while the IWILL board has an SMC
FDC37C665IR. Since I hadn't bothered to look before (thinking the
Nat. Semi. chip testing program knew what it was talking about) I
didn't bother to try formatting a single density disk on the IWill
board. Silly me.
That one (with the SMC part) formats single density disks that work
fine on the PC. I get a data CRC error on the last sector of the disk
on the real TRS-80, though. I'll have to put a 360k drive in the
TRS-80 and the PC (everything in the house is set up with Teac FD235
3.5" drives right now) and see if it's a problem with the 720k drives
- they use that sensor on the motor instead of an index hole... it
might make a difference. I think I might have a Mitsumi 3.5" I can
test with, too.
The ASUS (with the Winbond part) is the one that refuses to format
single density disks, though it *will* read and write ones that were
formatted on the TRS, once the sectors start far enough away from the
index sensor.
>The Winbond and UMC chips have never worked on any adapter or motherboard
>I've ever encountered them on. No idea if its the chip or the
>implementation.
Possibly it's a little of both, as I can read/write, just not format
on my Winbond-based mobo.
Pete Cervasio
<ken.ga...@sk.sympatico.ca> wrote:
>Pete Cervasio wrote:
>
>> The remaining problems is that I can't get the PC to =format= a good
>> single density track for anything. I wind up with one sector that has
>Are you using a low density drive (e.g. 360K floppy drive) or a high
>density drive (1.2MB) on the PC to do the formatting? If you are using a
Neither. I didn't mention that I've converted all the machines here
to use 720k 3.5" (well... 1.44 on the PCs). I also bulk erased the
floppies before formatting, even though there's no track width
difference.
[snip]
>The second way, for those who don't have the ability to format with the
>low density drive, is to use a big magnet to "clean" the floppy. I use an
>electromagnet that I bought from Radio Shack years ago. Use the magnet to
>completely "wipe" all magnetic info from the floppy. Now format at low
I've got a really big bulk eraser that I normally use with 10" reels
of 1/4" four-track tape. It does a REAL good job with diskettes. :)
>I first ran into the problem when I upgraded my Osborne-1 by adding a
>couple of double-sided, quad-density drives, and I had no end of trouble
My orignal TRS-80 Model 1 had a pair of Tandon quad density drives at
one time. I know that pain well.
>Of course, you might have a completely different problem, but I can never
>resist an opportunity to reminisce. <grin>
Hey, that's what having all this experience is for! :)
Dave McIntyre
Ken Ganshirt wrote:
> Will Rose wrote:
> > I've got a Baby Blue II, but it can't handle anything over a 4.77MHz
> > clock. You'd be better off with a Compaticard to handle the drives.
>
> Any idea where a guy can order a Compaticard? I've checked out Micro
> Solutions site and they don't even list it. I also checked all the mail
> order places that Micro Solutions show links to from their site and none
> of them have it listed.
>
> ...ken...
>
> **** ken.ga...@sk.sympatico.ca ****
I have a CompatiCard-II that I could part with. I don't remember what the
difference between a
ComptiCard and a CompatiCard-II was. I think the II is a somewhat stripped
down version of the
original since it only supports 2 drives. You can use multiple cards and it
will co-exist with other
floppy controllers. Still have the original Box, Manuals, and Disk. I just
copied the Disk to my
Zenith so I know the Disk is good, I assume the card is too. I also have a
50 pin to 34 pin card edge
connector. The CompatiCard doesn't have an external drive connector, so you
would have to snake
a 34 pin connector out the back of your computer. I'm not sure what the
card is worth, but anything
less then $30.00 w/50 to 34 pin adapter and I'll probably just hang on to
it.
Axel Berger
PC>I get a data CRC error on the last sector of the disk on the real TRS-
PC>80, though.
PC>see if it's a problem with the 720k drives - they use that sensor on
PC>the motor instead of an index hole... it might make a difference.
Don't think so. But there is somewhere else you might look and try to
find a workaround for, it being the last sector:
The first Atari TOS had a bug in the multiple sector read BIOS routine,
cutting the controller off before it had a chance to red the CRC bytes
of the last sector, so that an error there would go undetected. I'd
guess your PC has something similar in the write routine, so that the
correct CRC never gets written.
Tschö wa
Axel
Don Maslin
: Ken Ganshirt wrote:
Within the MicroSolutions CompatiCard family were the CompatiCard (I),
the Compaticard II, and the CompaiCard IV. I don't know what happened
to III. The CompatiCard IV is by far the most desirable as it handles
all of 8", 5.25" 360k and 1.2mb, and 3.5" 1.44mb and 2.88mb drives.
The II has no 8" capability and (IIRC) has no 2.88mb capability. The
original CompatiCard (I) will handle 8" drives, but not the 2.88mb
3.5" drives.
As was pointed out above, the II will handle only two drives and has
no external connector. Both the I and IV carry a 37 pin D sub
connector on the bracket in addition to a 34 pin header on the card
adjacent to the connector to accomodate the second two drives.
Like most things of this type and era, they are worth exactly what a
willing buyer and seller arrive at. No more, no less.
- don
Tim Mann
FAQ. I'd appreciate it if Amardeep, Don, Pete, and any others with
information would look at the results and let me know of any errors or
omissions. Maybe the information ought to be added to the CP/M FAQ
too if it's of sufficient interest.
See http://www.research.digital.com/SRC/personal/Tim_Mann/trs80faq.html.
--Tim
--
Tim Mann <ma...@pa.dec.com>, Compaq Systems Research Center
http://www.research.digital.com/SRC/personal/Tim_Mann/
Richard Jannaway
perfectly under win 95 release 4? Popping up a dos window and reading the
CPB disk like a dream. I have a desktop shortcut set up and everytihing.
Is it possibly due to my board? or teh way win 95is set up or????
I'm not being clever-clever here I really wand to understand before it hits
me on another system.
Dave McIntyre
> the Compaticard II, and the CompaiCard IV. I don't know what happened
> to III. The CompatiCard IV is by far the most desirable as it handles
> all of 8", 5.25" 360k and 1.2mb, and 3.5" 1.44mb and 2.88mb drives.
> The II has no 8" capability and (IIRC) has no 2.88mb capability. The
> original CompatiCard (I) will handle 8" drives, but not the 2.88mb
> 3.5" drives.
>
> As was pointed out above, the II will handle only two drives and has
> no external connector. Both the I and IV carry a 37 pin D sub
> connector on the bracket in addition to a 34 pin header on the card
> adjacent to the connector to accomodate the second two drives.
>
> Like most things of this type and era, they are worth exactly what a
> willing buyer and seller arrive at. No more, no less.
>
> - don
Are you sure about the lack of 8" drive support in the CompatiCard-II? The
addendum to theCompatiCard manual say "single speed high capacity 5 inch drives"
and "single density 5 inch disks" aren't supported. The manual shows support for
1.2 meg and 250k 8" soft sector drives.
Dave...
Don Maslin
: > Within the MicroSolutions CompatiCard family were the CompatiCard (I),
: Dave...
Since you raised the point, I looked at the DRIVER.SYS for the II and
it does indeed list the '8 inch' along with other sizes and
densities. It seems quite possible then that the II will handle 8"
drives. I have not tried it (yet) though.
- don
gkl...@seganet.com
On 1999-01-02 pra...@mistral.co.uk said:
>OK I get the point, this seems logical but why does my system run
>22disk perfectly under win 95 release 4? Popping up a dos window
>and reading the CPB disk like a dream. I have a desktop shortcut
>set up and everytihing.
>
>Is it possibly due to my board? or teh way win 95is set up or????
>
>I'm not being clever-clever here I really wand to understand before
>it hits me on another system.
You'll have to direct that question to Micro$loth technical support...
although they'll undoubtedly tell you that it's a hardware problem. :)
Truth is, who KNOWS what cobbled-together hunks of hybrid bloat might
lurk beneath the blue-hued, pointee-clickee veneer of WIN-DOZE Ninety-X?
Ken Ganshirt
>
> OK I get the point, this seems logical but why does my system run 22disk
> perfectly under win 95 release 4? Popping up a dos window and reading the
> CPB disk like a dream. I have a desktop shortcut set up and everytihing.
>
> Is it possibly due to my board? or teh way win 95is set up or????
>
It's hard to say what the actual difference between our systems is. It
could be the BIOS, or it could be something in how our respective
versins of Windows are set up, or it could be some interaction.
I know that there are a few things that I can only run by rebooting in
MS-DOS mode. I have run into others who can run these same apps in a
DOS window without booting into exclusive MS-DOS mode, and also some who
have the same difficulty as I do.
I'm sure that someone capable of digging into the bowels of these boxes
could produce a satisfactory technical explanation of exactly what it is
about my system that causes this, versus someone else's that doesn't
require rebooting ... If I cared enough, I could probably dig around and
figure it out myself. However, it seldom affects anything I want to do,
and the for occasional thing -- like running 22disk -- it's a minor
nuisance to reboot for a few minutes to read the disks and then reboot
back into Windows.
I wish I had a better answer. The best suggestion I can make is: any
time you have a DOS application that doesn't work, or doesn't work very
well, in a DOS window, and if it's something that you want/need
seriously, try and remember to give it a whirl in MS-DOS mode before you
give up on it completely. I very nearly spent a bunch of money on a
hardware solution because I forgot -- briefly -- to follow my own
suggestion.
--
...ken...
**** ken.ga...@sk.sympatico.ca ****
Leonard Erickson
> On Wed, 30 Dec 1998 18:46:31 GMT, "Amardeep S. Chana"
> <asc...@ibm.net> wrote:
>
> [snip]
>>I recently did a study to find out what will and what won't do single
>>density. Here are my findings so far:
> [snip]
>>Reportedly will do single density / FM but NOT verified:
>>
>> NS 8477
>> Intel 82077AA
> [more snip]
>
> I don't know if you'll take this as a verification, but I just
> formatted a single density disk on my TRS-80 Model 4 this weekend that
> both of my PCs were able to read and write. I've got 82077's in my
> ASUS VX-97 and IWILL P54TS (both PCI/ISA socket 7 boards).
>
> With the two PCs I was able to use Anadisk to look at the sectors and
> tested writing by putting a new "no operating system" message in the
> boot sector. When I booted the disk on my Model 1, it came up just
> fine with the new message.
>
> I also was able to mount the disk in the Model 4 emulator by Jeff
> Vavasour and copy files to it that were readable in both of the
> TRS-80s. This was all under TRSDOS/LS-DOS 6. I *do* have Montezuma
> CP/M for the Model 4 but it's packed away right now. (As all the
> comp.os.cpm people start booing and hissing at me!)
Sorry, but you *didn't* test single density. Model III/4 disks are
*double* density. Model I disks are single density.
--
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
sha...@krypton.rain.com <--preferred
leo...@qiclab.scn.rain.com <--last resort
Amardeep S. Chana
Leonard Erickson <sha...@krypton.rain.com> wrote in article
<990105.013440...@krypton.rain.com>...
> cerv...@nospam.doggone.it (Pete Cervasio) writes:
>
[snip]
> >
> > I also was able to mount the disk in the Model 4 emulator by Jeff
> > Vavasour and copy files to it that were readable in both of the
> > TRS-80s. This was all under TRSDOS/LS-DOS 6. I *do* have Montezuma
> > CP/M for the Model 4 but it's packed away right now. (As all the
> > comp.os.cpm people start booing and hissing at me!)
>
> Sorry, but you *didn't* test single density. Model III/4 disks are
> *double* density. Model I disks are single density.
>
> --
> Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
Actually he did, Leonard. It was a single density LDOS format disk that
the Model 4 can read and write with no problem.
Amardeep
Herbert R Johnson
Richard Jannaway <pra...@mistral.co.uk> wrote:
*>OK I get the point, this seems logical but why does my system run 22disk
*>perfectly under win 95 release 4? Popping up a dos window and reading the
*>CPB disk like a dream. I have a desktop shortcut set up and everytihing.
*>
*>Is it possibly due to my board? or teh way win 95is set up or????
*>
*>I'm not being clever-clever here I really wand to understand before it hits
*>me on another system.
*>
I've just migrated some MS-DOS stuff to a Win 95 OSR2 system, and stumbled
over some of these issues. It's barely relevant to CP/M but some people
run CP/M under MS-DOS emulators; and it may apply to cards like the
Baby Blue and the Compaticard.
There are two ways to run MS-DOS from Win 95: you can either shutdown your
computer and restart under MS-DOS (7.0), or you can run MS-DOS from a
"window" or the MS-DOS icon under the "Programs" menu. In short, you
get MAXIMUM MS-DOS compatbility from restarting to MS-DOS. I have a program
that misbehaves under a DOS window that does NOT do so when run after
restarting to MS-DOS. This kind of behaviour is noted in "Windows 95
Secrets" by Livingston and Straub, IDG Books, ISBN 0-7645-3070-4. It
also discusses how to configure the appropriate files for MS-DOS
operation under (or around) Win 95.
Please, no Gates-bashing comments in reply. I will ignore them and I'd
ask others to do likewise.
Herb Johnsons
Herbert R. Johnson http://pluto.njcc.com/~hjohnson
hjoh...@pluto.njcc.com voice 609-771-1503, New Jersey USA
amateur astronomer and astro-tour guide
classic S-100 computers restoration & parts as "Dr. S-100"
rebuilder/reseller of classic Macs for your computing pleasure
and senior engineer at Astro Imaging Systems
gkl...@seganet.com
On 1999-01-05 hjoh...@pluto.njcc.com said:
>Please, no Gates-bashing comments in reply. I will ignore them and
>I'd ask others to do likewise.
You're right, Herb. After all, this business of Justice Department
investigations is obviously a partisan political ploy motivated by
jealousy and hate. So WHAT if there are a dozen or more signed
consent decrees? It's a private matter. We need to put all this
pettiness behind us, and get on with the people's business of trying
to un-crash our computers.
As that great American Rodney King so aptly queried, "Can't we all
just get along?"
Pete Cervasio
Erickson) wrote:
>cerv...@nospam.doggone.it (Pete Cervasio) writes:
>
>> I don't know if you'll take this as a verification, but I just
>> formatted a single density disk on my TRS-80 Model 4 this weekend that
>> both of my PCs were able to read and write. I've got 82077's in my
>
>Sorry, but you *didn't* test single density. Model III/4 disks are
>*double* density. Model I disks are single density.
Sorry, Leonard, but I *did indeed* test single density. There is
absolutely *nothing* preventing either one of those machines from
formatting a single density disk.
Model 4 Technical Reference Manual, Page 59, Floppy Disk Interface,
first two sentences from paragraph 4.1:
"The TRS-80 Model 4 Floppy Disk Interface Board is an optional board
which if incorporated provides a standard five inch floppy disk
controller. The Floppy Disk Interface Board supports both SINGLE and
double density operation." (emphasis mine)
Check out bit 7 of the drive select latch I/O port. Then take a Model
4 running TRSDOS 6.x and do:
format :1 (sden,sides=1,cyl=40,name="SDENDISK")
and tell me what your Model I running LDOS does with it when you ask
for a directory.
Best regards,
Pete C.
=====================================================================
I'm really cervasio at airmail dot net if you want to email me, or go
to http://www.kjsl.com/trs80/ and pick the email link there.
All SPAM forwarded to my ISP's abuse dept. for appropriate action
=====================================================================
User Rdkeys Robert D. Keys
> Are you using a low density drive (e.g. 360K floppy drive) or a high
> density drive (1.2MB) on the PC to do the formatting? If you are using a
> narrower than a low density drive, therefore the tracks it writes are much
> narrower. If there is anything previously written on the floppy, a low
> density drive will see a great deal of "noise" when it tries to read.
Food for thought......
1. Will the AT write 5-1/4 inch form factor ``8-inch'' DSDD or SSSD
floppies, with the proper controller chip? I use AT drives on my
Cromemco box as ``8-inchers'', and it is a salvation that keeps
the old box running.
2. Some CP/Mish floppies use an SSSD first track (like Cromemco CDOS or
Cromemco ITC CP/M), even on double density floppies (SSDD/DSDD) in
both 5 and 8 inch formats. Years ago, I was able to write DSDD or SSDD
floppies on any old IBMish PC, and then take the floppy back to the
Cromemco box and rewrite track 0, side 1 in SSSD mode and the thing
was perfectly exchangeable between the Cromemco boxen and PCish boxen.
If other CP/M formats use the SSSD track 0, side 1 label approach,
that could give rise to some peoples write on the PC/read on the
CP/M box problems.
Comments or thoughs are appreciated....
Bob Keys..... (Aging CP/Mus Hackerus Greybeardus et Beerbellius)
..........
> Then there were the early days of the original PC's, back when we were
> going through the transition from systems with only 360K floppy drives to
> systems with only 1.2MB floppies. I was in PC Support back in those days,
> and it was no end of fun trying to support work groups with a mix of
> systems within their group!!
Our fix, then, was Kermit Everything Everywhere, ..... which mostly worked.
> Of course, you might have a completely different problem, but I can never
> resist an opportunity to reminisce. <grin>
That is half the fun of the old CP/M or even the early Unix era.....
Memories......
> ...ken...
BK
Don Maslin
: In comp.os.cpm Ken Ganshirt <ken.ga...@sk.sympatico.ca> wrote:
: > Are you using a low density drive (e.g. 360K floppy drive) or a high
: > density drive (1.2MB) on the PC to do the formatting? If you are using a
: > high density drive, you must keep in mind that the heads on it are much
: > narrower than a low density drive, therefore the tracks it writes are much
: > narrower. If there is anything previously written on the floppy, a low
: > density drive will see a great deal of "noise" when it tries to read.
: Food for thought......
: 1. Will the AT write 5-1/4 inch form factor ``8-inch'' DSDD or SSSD
: floppies, with the proper controller chip? I use AT drives on my
: Cromemco box as ``8-inchers'', and it is a salvation that keeps
: the old box running.
: 2. Some CP/Mish floppies use an SSSD first track (like Cromemco CDOS or
: Cromemco ITC CP/M), even on double density floppies (SSDD/DSDD) in
: both 5 and 8 inch formats. Years ago, I was able to write DSDD or SSDD
: floppies on any old IBMish PC, and then take the floppy back to the
: Cromemco box and rewrite track 0, side 1 in SSSD mode and the thing
: was perfectly exchangeable between the Cromemco boxen and PCish boxen.
: If other CP/M formats use the SSSD track 0, side 1 label approach,
: that could give rise to some peoples write on the PC/read on the
: CP/M box problems.
: Comments or thoughs are appreciated....
: Bob Keys..... (Aging CP/Mus Hackerus Greybeardus et Beerbellius)
Other manufacturers used similar formats. Xerox 820-II comes
immediately to mind.
- don
: ..........
Richard Plinston
>
> There are two ways to run MS-DOS from Win 95: you can either shutdown your
> computer and restart under MS-DOS (7.0), or you can run MS-DOS from a
> "window" or the MS-DOS icon under the "Programs" menu. In short, you
> get MAXIMUM MS-DOS compatbility from restarting to MS-DOS. I have a program
No, there are 3 ways. Edit the file MSDOS.SYS and change
BootGUI=1 to =0. The file is read only, system and hidden
so you will need to change the attributes before and after
editing. With this setting the GUI won't load and you will
be left at the C: prompt exactly as if this was MS-DOS 6.22
, just type WIN to load the GUI.
This shows that Win95 is just a jumped up MS-DOS 6.x + Win3.11
+ Win32s with various enhancements (some of them significant).
Frank Durda IV
: Sorry, but you *didn't* test single density. Model III/4 disks are
: *double* density. Model I disks are single density.
Model III/4/4D/4P systems can all create, write and read FM (single-density)
and MFM (double-density) formats. It cannot generate some of the
sector data address marks DAMs generated by the Western Digital 1771
controller present in the Model I and used in TRSDOS 2.3, but it can read
them. Other OSes avoid using the DAMs that are not available on both 1771
and the 1791/1793 controllers used in the original Tandy MFM-capable computers
(Model III/Model II). The later 1773 used in the gate-array Model 4 and Model
4P are DAM compatible with the 1793 and support the same densities and other
issues.
The main restriction in the IBM PC class systems was the use of the NEC uPc765
floppy disk controller, which was licensed by Intel and others after its
introduction in the late '70s. The controller itself supports FM modes, but
requires external circuitry (as did the Western Digital 177x and 179x series
Tandy used). IBM in the original IBM PC, elected to simply not include the
discrete electronics needed for the FM coding data separator on the '765,
and did not provide for the selection of this format in the BIOS (for obvious
reasons).
Later, more integrated disk controllers became available that copied the
'765 command set and did not require as much or any external circuitry of
the original '765 (or its licensed clones) and these new parts provided FM
support as part of the single chip or megacell, which was placed in the
"combo" chips that began appearing around 1991. The PC BIOS continued to
not provide calls for FM mode (to do so would make the BIOS "Incompatible"),
which falsely suggested that the hardware did not actually have the ability
to operate with FM encoding, which was not the case. Anyone willing to write
the driver to speak the bizzare '765 command language stack could read and
write FM media on these newer systems.
Frank Durda IV - only these addresses work:|"I picked up a Magic 8-Ball the
<uhclem.jan99%nemesis.lonestar.org> | other day and it said 'Outlook
| not so good'. I said 'Sure,
This Anti-spam address expires Jan. 31st | but Microsoft still ships it.'"
Copr. 1999, ask before reprinting.
evans-t...@dontbothermewithspam.evans-the-swim.demon.co.uk
wrote:
>In message <<QVgasuoW...@pluto.njcc.com>> hjoh...@pluto.njcc.com writes:
>>
>> There are two ways to run MS-DOS from Win 95: you can either shutdown your
>> computer and restart under MS-DOS (7.0), or you can run MS-DOS from a
>> "window" or the MS-DOS icon under the "Programs" menu. In short, you
>> get MAXIMUM MS-DOS compatbility from restarting to MS-DOS. I have a program
>
>No, there are 3 ways. Edit the file MSDOS.SYS and change
>BootGUI=1 to =0. The file is read only, system and hidden
>so you will need to change the attributes before and after
>editing. With this setting the GUI won't load and you will
>be left at the C: prompt exactly as if this was MS-DOS 6.22
>, just type WIN to load the GUI.
>
Or hit F8 on boot and choose command prompt only...
my from header contains a combined intelligence test/spam block
A. J. Blanchard
> On Tue, 5 Jan 1999 01:34:40 PST, sha...@krypton.rain.com (Leonard
> Erickson) wrote:
>
> >cerv...@nospam.doggone.it (Pete Cervasio) writes:
> >
>
> >> I don't know if you'll take this as a verification, but I just
> >> formatted a single density disk on my TRS-80 Model 4 this weekend that
> >> both of my PCs were able to read and write. I've got 82077's in my
> >
> >Sorry, but you *didn't* test single density. Model III/4 disks are
> >*double* density. Model I disks are single density.
>
> Sorry, Leonard, but I *did indeed* test single density. There is
> absolutely *nothing* preventing either one of those machines from
> formatting a single density disk.
[snip]True. The WD1793 used in the model 4 can generate single density.
I was always under the impression that the real problem was a true
model I floppy formatted in a model one would use obscure sector
address marks that are only generated in the WD1771 used in the
model I. The sector address marks are changed in the model 4 and
the model 4 sector address marks are readable by a PC floppy
controller.
A. J.
> Best regards,
> Pete C.
>
Holger Petersen
>The main restriction in the IBM PC class systems was the use of the NEC uPc765
>floppy disk controller, which was licensed by Intel and others after its
>introduction in the late '70s. The controller itself supports FM modes, but
>requires external circuitry (as did the Western Digital 177x and 179x series
>Tandy used).
True.
IBM in the original IBM PC, elected to simply not include the
>discrete electronics needed for the FM coding data separator on the '765,
Not really true...
To my knowledge, the original IBM Floppycontroller-Card uses the NEC 765 (or
Intel equivalent) and the WD 9216 (or eq.) for the data-seperator. The disk-
controller has an output (Pin 26, MFM-Mode) indicatint that it wants to do
single-Density. The 9216 has in input for density-select (Pin 6??). But one
needed a simple inverter to use this function...
[see also the Sydex-documentation on 22DISK concerning 8inch/SD reading]
greetings, Holger
Amardeep S. Chana
Holger Petersen <h...@kbbs.org> wrote in article <F5CLE...@kbbs.org>...
Actually, Frank is correct. If you re-read the Sydex documentation, you
will find that it states:
"Modifying A PC-XT "Clone" Controller For Single-Density Reading
[ wordy dialog deleted ]
First, you need to determine the type of controller you're using.
The
original IBM PC and PC/XT controllers are NOT readily adaptable,
but
most inexpensive clones are."
The original IBM design did not use the 9216 and its discrete logic data
separator could not decode single density.
Amardeep
john r pierce
>To my knowledge, the original IBM Floppycontroller-Card uses the NEC 765 (or
>Intel equivalent) and the WD 9216 (or eq.) for the data-seperator. The disk-
>controller has an output (Pin 26, MFM-Mode) indicatint that it wants to do
>single-Density. The 9216 has in input for density-select (Pin 6??). But one
>needed a simple inverter to use this function...
actually, the first IBM PC floppy controllers I saw (and these were VERY early
units) had little square IBM tin cans containing what I must assume were
discrete hybrid data seperators. IBM used to put a half dozen simple chips
along with assorted passive components on the ceramic subtrate used in those
cans [which date back to the System/360 days at least, I first saw them used in
the IBM 1130 that was designed circa 1964, and had flipflops etc built from 4
transistors in a can].
-jrp
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Holger Petersen
>Holger Petersen <h...@kbbs.org> wrote in article <F5CLE...@kbbs.org>...
>> To my knowledge, the original IBM Floppycontroller-Card uses the NEC 765
>> or Intel equivalent) and the WD 9216 (or eq.) for the data-seperator. The
>> disk-controller has an output (Pin 26, MFM-Mode) indicatint that it wants
>> to do single-Density. The 9216 has in input for density-select (Pin 6??).
> First, you need to determine the type of controller you're using.
> The original IBM PC and PC/XT controllers are NOT readily adaptable,
> but most inexpensive clones are."
You are right!
I've argued by lookig on a clone-shematic; in the meantime I've got a
(bad) photocopy of the IBM-design. But I do not understand it up to now...
Greetings, Holger
Alex at CBM Systems
Just a quick question. Where would I find the information on connecting a 8"
floppy to a PC. I have been trying to do this for some time now. I am also
having a slight problem with the diskette formats. I have 22Disk, but it does
not have a format for my machine on it. Does amybody know the correct settings
for a DMS HiNet machine using Shugart SA-series floppies?
Thanx
Alex
John D. Baker wrote:
> Several years after I first proposed the 8"->PC-AT signal mapping that
> is now a part of the CP/M FAQ, I finally built such an adapter only a
> few months ago.
>
> I simply wired up the "B:" drive (straight cable) section of a standard
> PeeCee floppy cable to a 50-pin male header, matching up analogous signals.
>
> (Actually, my 8" drive package was jumpered for DS2,DS3 (C:,D:), so I
> connected DS1(FDC) to DS2 in the 50-pin header, so I wouldn't have
> to re-jumper my drive package).
>
> Plugged it together and it worked like a champ! I checked it out with
> some of my old 8" disk formats for my SVA ZVX4 and AppliCard/CardZ180,
> even SSSD--it worked great.
>
> I used this rig and Sydex's AnaDisk to make dump files of some OS-9
> disks from an SWTPC 6809 box.
>
> Lately, I've been answering more and more questions on this kind of
> adapter, but the principal inquirer has demonstrated that he hasn't
> the first clue about 8" drives.
>
> (I thought I only had to deal with people like this at work...)
>
> --
> John D. Baker I hear, and I forget.
> jdb...@blkbox.com I see, and I remember.
> http://www.blkbox.com/~jdb8042/ I do, and I understand.
> Amiga, OS/2, Linux -- The cure for M$. - Ancient Chinese Proverb
Wayne Townsend
Thanx in advance............
> I'm running the emulator in a DOS window under Win 95 on an AMD
>K6/200MHz clone that I assembled myself from components. So far the
>emulator seems to run just fine in a DOS window, without rebooting to
> ...ken...
Ken Ganshirt
>
> What emulator are you using? Where did you get it?
>
I'm using MYZ80. It's slick. The only problem I've had so far is that
I couldn't get it to run the Osborne-specific version of SuperCalc.
Rather than mess around creating a new terminal definition, I just
picked up a copy of the generic terminal-installable version of
SuperCalc from one of the CP/M sites.
I got MYZ80 here....
http://student.uq.edu.au/~s373718/myz80.html
Enjoy.
...ken...
**** ken.ga...@sk.sympatico.ca ****