Last Will and Testament of "French Luser"

French Luser

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Sep 16, 2006, 9:00:53 AM9/16/06

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Hello, Everybody!

Recently, there were, again, some people (who have never posted anything on
the comp.os.cpm Newsgroup) arguing that I should give all my files (while, of
course, they provide nothing in exchange).

Of course, I refuse to do that, since (1) I am not yet dead, and (2) most are
"work in progress" (since I publish those that are no longer evolving).

Since my situation is getting worse and worse, I wondered what is going to
happen to me. This made me think.

The only way to (maybe) save a few of my work (only what I have done during
the last 5 or 6 years, since everything else is on various floppies formats --
NorthStar Horizon, Amstrad PCW8256, and especially the Epson QX-10 that was my
"workhorse" during 15 years -- that I have not had the time and/or money to
transfer) is to make (finally!) "back-up copies" (Yes, I worked 5 years under
DR-DOS 7 without making any back-up -- the computer shop owner who took my
hard disk to make a CD-ROM could not believe it! Every week, he has a customer
that lost his hard disk under Windows...) of my files.

So, after paying 60 Euros, I finally had a handful of CD-ROMs containing my
stuff.

Now, in France we have a saying: "Never put all your eggs in the same place."

Since my remaining family simply don't understand what I do in a foreign
language, I needed to find someone with the same interests as me (I had been
striken by the deaths of Don Maslin and Rlee Peters, whose families destroyed
all their work, since they were thinking it was "junk").

Unfortunately, the people reading the comp.os.cpm Newsgroup seem to be much
less interested in CP/M than the members of the "CP/M User Group (UK)" (of
which I was a member): over the years, I have not found anybody doing some
real work. Most of them are old electronicians telling us what they did 30
years ago. No one of them did build a computer utilizing the last improvements
to CP/M made by Digital Research, like Personal CP/M, CP/NET, and GSX.
Instead, they prefer talking about making their dream Z-80 computer...

Over the years, I have maintained contact with several people which were
active with regard to CP/M before the Internet, when we were communicating via
magazines like "TCJ".

One is American: Herb Johnson.

The other is German: Tilmann Reh.

So, I sent a CD-ROM to each, containing a copy of my hard disk (18,000 files
in 900 directories).

Those CD-ROMs are not intended for publication, since they contain mostly
"work in progress" that only me understand all the details, and only me have
in my head the idea of what I want to make of "all this jazz".

The idea is to send, once per year, a similar CD-ROM to both, so that, should
I disappear, someone else could put the WS4 files online (thanks to the
WS4-to-HTML File Converter that I wrote).

Now, how to define "disappear".

I live near the Atlantic Coast. I have several Captains in my family. All of
them died in their beds (I hope to continue this tradition!)

In France, someone is reputed dead if he has given no sign of live during "one
year and a day".

So, I hereby declare publicly that Herb Johnson and Tilmann Reh will be free
to release to the public my work files one year and a day AFTER THE LAST
MESSAGE THAT I SEND TO THE COMP.OS.CPM NEWSGROUP.

This way, a simple search will tell if I am still alive, and since how many
days I have not manifested myself to the comp.os.cpm Newsgroup.

If I am alive, I will continue to send back-ups of my work every year to Herb
Johnson and Tilmann Reh, and to contribute messages to the comp.os.cpm
Newsgroup.

If I am dead, they could setup an alarm warning them that I have not shown any
sign of life for the last year and a day, then give my work files to any fool
that would be interested in them.

This way, maybe, my work will not be totally lost if I disappear suddenly.

(I am still looking for finding a repository in Australia or Asia. Too bad we
don't have any regular from India or China.)

Yours Sincerely,
"French Luser"

French Luser

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Sep 16, 2006, 11:51:36 AM9/16/06

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bytes files path
132 217 9 c:\
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87 361 1 ГДДДcpmfaq
156 416 7 ГДДДcpmpg
987 669 75 ГДДДcpmplusf
318 111 10 і ГДДДdevice
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395 799 23 і і АДДДtemp
313 728 16 і ГДДДdoit
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688 555 50 ГДДДcpmpus
597 849 14 ГДДДcpmuguk
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195 438 10 і ГДДДvol11
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302 762 44 і ГДДДvol3
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138 240 12 і і і ГДДДmovcpm
20 352 8 і і і АДДДprlmove
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224 644 6 і і і ГДДДsystat
105 531 5 і і і ГДДДtmp
39 969 5 і і і ГДДДtype
65 931 5 і і і ГДДДvcmode
104 725 8 і і і ГДДДvout
122 094 2 і і і АДДДxios
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228 736 29 і і і ГДДДd12
223 872 37 і і і ГДДДd2
120 320 22 і і і ГДДДd3
241 408 9 і і і ГДДДd4
252 544 41 і і і ГДДДd5
247 680 52 і і і ГДДДd6
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249 600 28 і і і АДДДd9
1 065 339 68 і і ГДДДrainbow
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109 218 4 і і і ГДДДrbgraph
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146 576 10 і і і АДДДturbcomm
1 847 228 13 і і ГДДДstarlink
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313 472 26 і і і ГДДДd2
41 856 17 і і і ГДДДd3
74 752 5 і і і ГДДДd4
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20 102 4 і і і ГДДДinclude
46 397 11 і і і ГДДДquelib
66 120 4 і і і ГДДДterm
275 962 11 і і і АДДДtools
619 400 33 і і ГДДДconug02
1 533 856 124 і і ГДДДconug03
2 063 480 149 і і ГДДДconugbit
14 546 7 і і ГДДДconugdoc
0 0 і і ГДДДnull
1 358 543 17 і і і АДДДasauver
535 285 29 і і ГДДДtracer
0 0 і і ГДДДadraw
0 0 і і ГДДДcwait
0 0 і і ГДДДetime
0 0 і і ГДДДmdm8
0 0 і і АДДДreadutil
718 730 40 і ГДДДcdrom
319 145 9 і ГДДДchasm
93 927 5 і і ГДДДchasm19
389 162 13 і і ГДДДchasm213
409 089 18 і і ГДДДchasm400
481 018 17 і і АДДДchasm407
208 449 16 і ГДДДcobol21
389 064 40 і ГДДДcomal
1 034 150 40 і ГДДДcomalami
296 006 18 і ГДДДcpmcomal
29 547 2 і ГДДДcpmedit
242 757 18 і ГДДДdasm
287 260 13 і і АДДДdasm15
6 943 147 249 і ГДДДddmga
302 699 9 і ГДДДdebug
422 816 57 і ГДДДdem2cmal
135 559 7 і ГДДДdezip
47 300 7 і ГДДДdirutils
208 970 13 і ГДДДdisasm
267 485 13 і і АДДДtemp
3 025 838 133 і ГДДДdisfind
952 602 12 і ГДДДdismal
1 175 397 13 і ГДДДdismsbas
850 222 13 і ГДДДdissid
698 745 31 і ГДДДdpgen
1 164 220 52 і ГДДДed86
86 440 3 і ГДДДedir
165 764 10 і ГДДДexpandir
115 996 9 і ГДДДfind
780 553 34 і ГДДДfontpack
33 701 1 і ГДДДgiffiles
451 958 9 і ГДДДgsxdoc
306 081 8 і і ГДДДgins
276 506 7 і і ГДДДnote
749 763 32 і і ГДДДpg
359 286 7 і і АДДДug
105 131 2 і ГДДДkermit
90 019 7 і ГДДДlogo
58 912 10 і ГДДДm80struc
2 393 899 6 і ГДДДmac
142 333 21 і і ГДДДcpnet_~1
91 942 10 і і АДДДmicros~1
292 693 10 і ГДДДmpaul
750 028 15 і ГДДДmsdosdoc
59 643 4 і ГДДДnamezap
201 856 6 і ГДДДoeminfo
97 567 11 і ГДДДoptasm15
512 710 31 і ГДДДoptasm16
321 008 15 і і ГДДДd1
22 376 6 і і ГДДДd2
165 424 21 і і ГДДДd3
786 143 9 і і АДДДd4
292 638 20 і ГДДДpcdos
41 499 6 і і ГДДДatv2
352 082 89 і і ГДДДbanner
85 202 8 і і ГДДДbatutil
43 259 5 і і ГДДДccpmexmp
27 565 3 і і ГДДДcwait
54 641 8 і і ГДДДdclock
33 735 7 і і ГДДДetime
47 864 9 і і ГДДДforce
16 110 3 і і ГДДДitodate
30 085 3 і і ГДДДkill
136 098 6 і і ГДДДmdm844
25 174 2 і і ГДДДprocess
61 598 3 і і ГДДДprofile
43 546 7 і і ГДДДrspexamp
18 772 3 і і ГДДДsysdata
61 906 4 і і ГДДДwaitfor
45 569 7 і і ГДДДwhoprt
24 162 7 і і ГДДДwindow
66 438 6 і і АДДДxioscpt
3 162 566 85 і ГДДДpcgpe10
8 960 3 і ГДДДpcpm
602 966 5 і і ГДДДpcpm105s
4 584 619 9 і і і АДДДsrc
584 863 5 і і ГДДДpcpm211b
434 944 34 і і і ГДДДbin
1 057 450 5 і і і АДДДimg
487 720 5 і і АДДДpcpm211s
3 613 662 5 і і АДДДsrc
100 084 2 і ГДДДplm
533 065 10 і ГДДДplm80src
316 986 20 і ГДДДplmx
393 509 37 і і АДДДtemp
813 475 13 і ГДДДratapl
416 633 6 і ГДДДsgafmt2
0 0 і ГДДДsourcer
4 428 841 72 і і АДДДv7
231 610 23 і ГДДДsvga
623 071 23 і ГДДДtemp
150 406 11 і і АДДДtemp
449 025 87 і і АДДДtemp
122 501 6 і і АДДДtemp
110 547 9 і ГДДДtexts
262 655 6 і і АДДДsauma
334 297 7 і ГДДДtransfer
369 197 8 і і АДДДfmaven
470 448 51 і ГДДДunload
71 623 7 і ГДДДunload86
125 081 7 і ГДДДunreal
138 852 18 і ГДДДwordpro
44 346 3 і ГДДДwsedit
745 143 16 і ГДДДxios
118 323 4 і ГДДДxrd
249 028 8 і ГДДДxyz
0 0 і АДДДemail
673 570 6 ГДДДtempe
7 056 507 44 і АДДДarachne.tmp
593 518 3 ГДДДtex
227 623 14 і ГДДДccpmdoc
709 031 30 і ГДДДcpm6pins
466 490 17 і ГДДДcpm6pug
32 772 3 і ГДДДogden
53 890 5 і ГДДДplirefma
1 695 204 11 і ГДДДtex80
2 990 170 10 і АДДДtexdoc
463 497 22 ГДДДtheses
114 944 3 і ГДДДgkalg
454 769 26 і ГДДДgkapl
98 688 3 і ГДДДgked
113 792 3 і ГДДДgkeh
177 770 11 і ГДДДgkms
0 0 і АДДДgkphd
0 0 ГДДДtpascal
209 862 21 і ГДДДcpm80
230 394 14 і ГДДДcpm86
119 042 4 і АДДДmsdos
7 018 580 97 ГДДДtranxit
2 416 737 14 і ГДДДboth
1 270 256 8 і ГДДДdisk1
1 146 495 8 і ГДДДdisk2
4 665 369 5 і АДДДdistri
96 268 2 ГДДДturboasm
2 140 653 100 ГДДДvde
220 544 11 ГДДДvedit86
369 220 24 і АДДДvplus
219 125 5 ГДДДwinpatb
12 688 386 295 ГДДДws
619 776 22 і ГДДД86primer
359 040 24 і ГДДД87primer
272 120 15 і ГДДДam80
302 336 5 і ГДДДam86
1 708 800 101 і ГДДДcalp
746 798 13 і ГДДДcb80
1 134 013 32 і ГДДДcb86
186 624 7 і ГДДДccpmdoc
402 176 23 і і ГДДДccpmi
920 853 32 і і ГДДДccpmprg
455 040 34 і і ГДДДccpmsg
452 864 14 і і ГДДДccpmug
150 908 7 і і ГДДДconnect
619 131 23 і і АДДДiccpm
0 0 і ГДДДcpmp
252 254 13 і і ГДДДbioskrnl
888 704 47 і і ГДДДcpmpig
892 238 32 і і ГДДДcpmppg
305 096 53 і і і АДДДtemprsx
409 984 38 і і ГДДДcpmppug
1 403 298 69 і і ГДДДcpmpsg
1 007 872 40 і і ГДДДcpmpug
413 568 18 і і ГДДДcpmpuger
47 616 1 і і АДДДhelpus
850 048 9 і ГДДДcpnet
544 028 27 і ГДДДdrdraw
169 728 18 і ГДДДdrgraph
1 226 112 45 і ГДДДdrlogo
345 141 11 і ГДДДgpdp
435 456 24 і ГДДДibmpctr
1 312 768 10 і ГДДДmallard
1 507 092 31 і ГДДДroche
1 612 333 63 і ГДДДsmal80
83 604 13 і і ГДДДdistrib
171 813 18 і і АДДДhack
235 136 22 і АДДДws4doc
321 982 8 ГДДДws331ms
0 0 ГДДДwsdisks
334 095 10 і ГДДДdisk1
349 060 20 і ГДДДdisk2
303 114 3 і ГДДДdisk3
230 040 4 і ГДДДdisk4
325 330 1 і ГДДДdisk5
330 160 6 і АДДДdisk6
127 960 4 ГДДДx86asm
279 038 20 ГДДДxlt86
518 985 12 ГДДДyan
153 036 16 і ГДДДconfig
66 266 10 і ГДДДdocs
149 095 16 і АДДДyan
0 0 і АДДДspool
220 939 35 і АДДДhelp
83 349 9 ГДДДz80cmd
46 258 8 і ГДДДver12
58 855 10 і АДДДver13
1 183 318 84 ГДДДz80dis
738 743 41 ГДДДz80tools
166 016 10 ГДДДzsid
0 0 ГДДДzzbad1
0 0 і АДДДcoursd~1
2 041 357 4 і АДДДalg?bre
0 0 ГДДДzzbad2
0 0 і ГДДДfichie~1
0 0 і і АДДДmicros~1
1 698 3 і і ГДДДpapier~1
160 768 2 і і АДДДr?f?re~1
0 0 і АДДДmicros~1
29 184 2 і АДДДmodФles
575 488 6 і ГДДДautres~1
999 936 14 і ГДДДlettre~1
395 264 5 і ГДДДmemos
145 408 8 і ГДДДoutlook
351 744 2 і АДДДsoluti~1
0 0 ГДДДzzbad4
0 0 і АДДДmesdoc~1
0 0 ГДДДzzbad5
0 0 і АДДДmesdoc~1
732 370 24 ГДДД22disk
258 398 11 і ГДДД22disk
420 736 35 і ГДДДdec100
220 416 19 і ГДДДncrdmv
176 384 12 і АДДДtemp
753 050 26 ГДДД86primer
8 430 731 173 ГДДДaacpm
1 344 531 13 ГДДДaltair
1 042 224 12 і АДДДaltsw
403 488 26 ГДДДam86
1 167 405 54 і ГДДДfaircom
363 776 22 і і ГДДДmicrob1
349 355 33 і і АДДДmicrob2
53 669 4 і АДДДmsdos
399 823 8 ГДДДanadisk
7 957 079 25 ГДДДantivir
135 672 45 ГДДДaplz
2 479 653 91 ГДДДarachne
0 1 і ГДДДcache
0 1 і і АДДДheaders
92 179 28 і ГДДДdoc
0 1 і ГДДДdownload
53 613 22 і ГДДДexamples
2 294 1 і ГДДДmail
978 1 і і ГДДДarchive
267 1 і і ГДДДjokes
428 1 і і ГДДДlinks
503 1 і і ГДДДtrash
420 1 і і АДДДurgent
1 666 6 і ГДДДoops
459 711 50 і ГДДДsystem
2 633 6 і і ГДДДapm.db
512 2 і і ГДДДcodepage
24 268 5 і і ГДДДdevdrvrs
92 658 8 і і ГДДДdgi
155 545 61 і і ГДДДgui
275 191 125 і і ГДДДikons
52 624 12 і і АДДДpktdrvrs
0 0 і АДДДbackup
3 901 977 330 ГДДДarobase
351 104 9 ГДДДarsac
136 124 4 ГДДДasm48
106 049 10 ГДДДasm80
303 616 78 ГДДДasm86src
531 483 27 ГДДДaugusta
7 521 930 7 ГДДДbalsol
0 0 ГДДДbascom
532 816 8 і ГДДДmsdos
0 0 і ГДДДcpm80
0 0 і АДДДcpm86
304 918 15 ГДДДbasica
260 607 12 ГДДДbasice
760 392 13 ГДДДbdos86
319 720 13 і АДДДtemp
162 952 29 ГДДДbesp
2 152 318 31 ГДДДbiosdmv
384 882 2 ГДДДbiospc
693 904 21 і АДДДpcat
564 534 34 ГДДДboulot
203 118 10 ГДДДcardfile
0 0 ГДДДcb80
122 434 7 і ГДДДcb80v13
0 0 і АДДДcb80v20
218 667 8 ГДДДcb86cdos
57 170 8 і ГДДДatprn
31 570 7 і ГДДДcb86a86
30 865 10 і ГДДДcb86call
189 874 10 і ГДДДcb86term
386 642 30 і ГДДДdeskutil
26 358 6 і АДДДremind
315 524 18 ГДДДcb86cpm
343 504 19 ГДДДcb86mdos
311 698 14 і ГДДДcb86v20
479 436 25 і ГДДДcb86v21
971 147 32 і АДДДdatetime
0 0 ГДДДcbasic
74 352 4 і ГДДДcbasic80
141 220 5 і ГДДДcbasic86
600 038 28 і ГДДДdiffcbas
357 888 2 і АДДДfirsttry
163 807 9 ГДДДcbedit
0 0 ГДДДcdos
1 572 840 5 і ГДДДcdos3862
584 614 36 і і ГДДДxd1
688 508 33 і і АДДДxd2
1 742 014 4 і ГДДДcdos3863
697 956 37 і і ГДДДxd1
707 535 42 і і АДДДxd2
4 072 553 82 і ГДДДcpcdos32
129 536 1 і і АДДДtemp
2 837 129 79 і АДДДmdos51
341 120 4 ГДДДclear
388 503 30 ГДДДcobol
538 616 21 ГДДДcomal
270 394 31 і АДДДdistri
920 276 80 ГДДДcompis
675 200 58 ГДДДcompis1
309 932 21 ГДДДcompress
28 187 3 і ГДДДarce41a
160 007 14 і ГДДДcfx
64 215 3 і і АДДДcfx09
135 316 12 і ГДДДextract
672 018 17 і ГДДДlha213
12 560 3 і ГДДДlue220
1 318 560 45 і ГДДДtemp
153 663 13 і ГДДДunarj
388 094 5 і і АДДДtemp
465 769 45 і і ГДДДgrlib03a
311 641 5 і і ГДДДgrlib03b
502 510 43 і і ГДДДgrlibfor
392 182 30 і і АДДДgsx13
89 441 6 і АДДДuncr233
13 176 352 6 ГДДДcompupro
149 760 7 і ГДДД188proc
97 152 6 і ГДДД68kbios
0 0 і ГДДД8086-c
373 760 16 і і ГДДДd1
18 944 2 і і АДДДd2
202 469 34 і ГДДДappnotes
112 256 5 і ГДДДc-8086
0 0 і ГДДДccpm86
0 0 і і АДДДv2-0
311 168 23 і і ГДДДd1
331 776 27 і і ГДДДd2
103 680 4 і і АДДДd3
196 403 15 і ГДДДccpro
166 272 8 і ГДДДwhsmit-c
14 220 20 і АДДДz80-c
8 637 2 ГДДДconvert
4 699 756 28 ГДДДcopyqm
1 585 811 10 і АДДДtemp
329 255 7 ГДДДcpcdos32
413 440 35 і ГДДДdisk1
0 0 і ГДДДdisk2
0 0 і ГДДДdisk3
0 0 і ГДДДdisk4
0 0 і АДДДdisk5
0 0 ГДДДvedit80
0 0 ГДДДcomalope
1 065 275 159 ГДДДdosasm
210 804 7 і ГДДДrasm13
316 973 9 і ГДДДrasm14a
13 184 3 і АДДДtemp
0 0 ГДДДdosprg
112 673 8 і ГДДДffff
109 312 2 і і ГДДДunivbe
64 150 4 і і АДДДunivesa
2 079 557 70 і ГДДДfractiny
330 923 8 і АДДДskyglobe
0 0 ГДДДdos32
127 344 15 і ГДДДv12
966 729 5 і АДДДv35
88 216 7 і ГДДДbin
11 331 5 і і АДДДsource
408 188 28 і ГДДДdebug
204 245 10 і ГДДДdoc
29 834 18 і ГДДДexamples
14 186 7 і і ГДДДc
6 037 7 і і ГДДДdll
23 395 4 і і ГДДДgus
6 045 4 і і ГДДДmem
15 083 5 і і АДДДvesa
244 941 17 і ГДДДgtc
88 168 29 і ГДДДlib
79 658 17 і АДДДpal
776 1 і ГДДДbios
1 827 2 і ГДДДconio
22 444 14 і ГДДДfiles
25 559 7 і ГДДДinclude
27 341 9 і ГДДДmalloc
4 561 4 і ГДДДmath
5 485 7 і ГДДДnew
14 691 3 і ГДДДstartup
33 271 21 і ГДДДstream
48 011 27 і ГДДДstrings
30 718 18 і АДДДsystem
3 825 352 13 АДДДmetaweb
total files 18 116 total bytes 430 498 706
disk free space 1 189 609 472

Barry Watzman

unread,

Sep 16, 2006, 12:08:43 PM9/16/06

to French Luser

Rlee Peters' work wasn't lost, at least not completely. There are
copies of his library (or at least part of it ... about 40,000 files,
370MB) floating around, in fact I was sent a copy of it on CD although I
was not given permission to publish it (indeed was asked not to publish
it, at least not as an entire collection).

Since you've taken this action, I'll follow your lead and state for the
record that if I die, it is my wish that my family make my CP/M archive
available, and it may be published to the extent permitted by the
copyrights that owners of the archive contents may have. Of course my
wife doesn't really know what it is or where it is, but there are
multiple DVD backups of it in multiple places, plus the copy on my hard
drive (G:\CP_M Archives (includes the Rlee Peters archive), also H:\Sol
Tapes and H:\Walnut_Creek). Note that most of what I have is already
online in various places ... there are only a few things that I've not
given out. Also, a dozen or so people have bought a DVD of my
collection (which I was selling for $35), although as it has continued
to grow it no longer fits on a single DVD, much less CDs.

Donald Harris

unread,

Sep 16, 2006, 4:13:28 PM9/16/06

to

To those I sent a copy of Rlee Peter's CD:

I didn't say it couldn't be published, I said that some of it might not be
in the public domain. Rlee would have liked to have his efforts widely
distributed. He lives on through his work. I sent CDs to Barry Watzman,
Dave Dunfield, and Uwe Nass. I believe Rlee sent something to Herb Johnson.

Before Rlee died, I promised that I would try to save his S-100 and CP/M
stuff and get into the hands of people who were interested in the hardware
and software. I got everything but two PCs. The people who got the PCs
immediately erased the hard disks. Whatever was on them is lost. All the
original disks and almost all of the hardware was given to Dave Griffith.
Dave has been selling some of it on e-bay. That puts it into the hands of
interested parties. My personal S-100 stuff went with it.

Don

"Barry Watzman" <Watzma...@neo.rr.com> wrote in message
news:450C218B...@neo.rr.com...

nos...@nouce.bellatlantic.net

unread,

Sep 16, 2006, 5:30:36 PM9/16/06

to

On Sat, 16 Sep 2006 20:13:28 GMT, "Donald Harris"
<harr...@verizon.net> wrote:

>To those I sent a copy of Rlee Peter's CD:
>
>I didn't say it couldn't be published, I said that some of it might not be
>in the public domain. Rlee would have liked to have his efforts widely
>distributed. He lives on through his work. I sent CDs to Barry Watzman,
>Dave Dunfield, and Uwe Nass. I believe Rlee sent something to Herb Johnson.

I also have one of Rlee's CDroms. Alone with the Time Olmstead
Unofficial CP/M page at the point he transfered it to Gaby.

Yes, there is content on the CD that might have to be checked
before putting it on the web.

Allison
========================================================
Here is a list of the content:

Rlee Peter's CP/M CD-ROM - Annotated by R. Stek

Dave Griffith

unread,

Sep 16, 2006, 6:35:04 PM9/16/06

to

Donald Harris <harr...@verizon.net> wrote:
> To those I sent a copy of Rlee Peter's CD:

> I didn't say it couldn't be published, I said that some of it might not be
> in the public domain. Rlee would have liked to have his efforts widely
> distributed. He lives on through his work. I sent CDs to Barry Watzman,
> Dave Dunfield, and Uwe Nass. I believe Rlee sent something to Herb Johnson.

> Before Rlee died, I promised that I would try to save his S-100 and CP/M
> stuff and get into the hands of people who were interested in the hardware
> and software. I got everything but two PCs. The people who got the PCs
> immediately erased the hard disks. Whatever was on them is lost. All the
> original disks and almost all of the hardware was given to Dave Griffith.
> Dave has been selling some of it on e-bay. That puts it into the hands of
> interested parties. My personal S-100 stuff went with it.

To chime in on this, everyone who has obtained a P112 from me has been
provided with a copy of Rlee's CD. Since the documentation and system
software took up so little of a CD, there was plenty of room for Rlee's
stuff.

--
David Griffith
dgr...@cs.csbuak.edu <-- Switch the 'b' and 'u'

pbetti

unread,

Sep 18, 2006, 4:26:55 AM9/18/06

to

Dave Griffith wrote:
> Donald Harris <harr...@verizon.net> wrote:
> > To those I sent a copy of Rlee Peter's CD:
>
> > I didn't say it couldn't be published, I said that some of it might not be
> > in the public domain. Rlee would have liked to have his efforts widely
> > distributed. He lives on through his work. I sent CDs to Barry Watzman,
> > Dave Dunfield, and Uwe Nass. I believe Rlee sent something to Herb Johnson.
>

[snip]

> To chime in on this, everyone who has obtained a P112 from me has been
> provided with a copy of Rlee's CD. Since the documentation and system
> software took up so little of a CD, there was plenty of room for Rlee's
> stuff.
>
>
> --
> David Griffith
> dgr...@cs.csbuak.edu <-- Switch the 'b' and 'u'

I'm one of them. May be is the time to publish this material on the
web. I can do this on my site if Donald Harris gives me the permission,
eventually stripping out what is not on the PD.

Piergiorgio

--
Piergiorgio Betti < pbetti at e-tech dot net>

French Luser

unread,

Sep 18, 2006, 8:22:09 AM9/18/06

to

Hello, Barry!

> Rlee Peters' work wasn't lost, at least not completely. There are copies of
> his library (or at least part of it ... about 40,000 files, 370MB) floating
> around, in fact I was sent a copy of it on CD although I was not given
> permission to publish it (indeed was asked not to publish it, at least not
> as an entire collection).

The big problem with Rlee "heritage" is that only the BINARIES of his files
are available, while I wrote him over and over, asking him to retype some of
the more esoteric manuals. (I also have his CD-ROM.) Since then, of course, I
did not find the manuals (that were probably dumped by his family), so a good
occasion was lost. Too bad. Except that, Rlee was one of my best CP/M
correspondent. Too bad I had not the opportunity of meeting him. Too bad there
are not more Americans like him.

Yours Sincerely,
"French Luser"

Donald Harris

unread,

Sep 18, 2006, 8:59:37 AM9/18/06

to

"French Luser" <Bill....@microsoft.com> wrote in message
news:450e8f5b$0$25920$ba4a...@news.orange.fr...

The manuals were saved except for 3 boxes which got wet in his storage shed.
They were moldy and had to be tossed. Dave Griffith got everything, tons of
the stuff.

Don

Donald Harris

unread,

Sep 18, 2006, 9:12:02 AM9/18/06

to

"pbetti" <pbe...@lpconsul.net> wrote in message
news:1158568015.1...@m7g2000cwm.googlegroups.com...

You may publish anything that you wish. I don't know which is PD and which
is not. It is Rlee's work, not mine. Rlee said that he wanted to capture
anything he could get his hands on to be sure that it wasn't lost. His last
wishes were that the material be made available to all.

Don

nos...@nouce.bellatlantic.net

unread,

Sep 18, 2006, 10:03:12 AM9/18/06

to

The version I have has both sources and some manuals. It was
apparently an evolving work.

Allison

m...@privacy.net

unread,

Sep 18, 2006, 1:20:32 PM9/18/06

to

French Luser wrote:
>
>Hello, Everybody!
>
>Recently, there were, again, some people (who have never posted anything on
>the comp.os.cpm Newsgroup) arguing that I should give all my files (while, of
>course, they provide nothing in exchange).

Not true. The objection was to your repeated bullshit claims that you
are oh-so-willing to share all your files but cannot do so because of
finances.

You have every right to not share. I just want you to tell the truth
about the fact that you *choose* not to share.

>Of course, I refuse to do that, since (1) I am not yet dead, and
>(2) most are "work in progress" (since I publish those that are
>no longer evolving).

What of the many files that you have that were written by others?
Will you now allow them to be posted on the web?

I didn't think so.

>Since my situation is getting worse and worse, I wondered what is going to
>happen to me.

You are going to die, like we all do. It will, most likely, ether happen
sufdeenly -- preventing you from ever sharing those files -- or you
will get sick -- preventing you from ever sharing those files. I hope
you live a long and healthy life, but we all face the same end.

My interest is in the archived material wriiten by others -- including
Gary Kildall -- that you claim to have but refuse to share. Your work
is of marginal interest.

m...@privacy.net

unread,

Sep 18, 2006, 1:24:03 PM9/18/06

to

Barry Watzman wrote:

>Since you've taken this action, I'll follow your lead and state for the
>record that if I die, it is my wish that my family make my CP/M archive
>available, and it may be published to the extent permitted by the
>copyrights that owners of the archive contents may have.

Ah, there is the rub! What of those cases where no copyright owner
can be found? Do you publish only that which has permission, or
do you publish all that does not have a present-day copyright owner
who denies permission to publish?

Herb Johnson

unread,

Sep 18, 2006, 4:55:26 PM9/18/06

to

French Luser wrote: [summary]

> The only way to (maybe) save a few of my work (only what I have done during
> the last 5 or 6 years, since everything else is on various floppies formats --

>....is to make (finally!) "back-up copies"... the computer shop owner who took my

> hard disk to make a CD-ROM could not believe it!

> Since my remaining family simply don't understand what I do in a foreign

> language, I needed to find someone with the same interests as me

> Over the years, I have maintained contact with several people which were

> active with regard to CP/M before the Internet, ....
> One is American: Herb Johnson...The other is German: Tilmann Reh.

>
> So, I sent a CD-ROM to each, containing a copy of my hard disk (18,000 files
> in 900 directories). Those CD-ROMs are not intended for publication, since
> they contain mostly "work in progress" that only me understand all the

> details...The idea is to send, once per year, a similar CD-ROM to both,

> so that, should I disappear, someone else could put the WS4

> files online...

> So, I hereby declare publicly that Herb Johnson and Tilmann Reh will be free
> to release to the public my work files one year and a day AFTER THE LAST
> MESSAGE THAT I SEND TO THE COMP.OS.CPM NEWSGROUP.

> Yours Sincerely,
> "French Luser"

Emmanuel and I have indeed corresponded for many many years. I
appreciate that he's considered me as someone to trust with some of his
work. But he and I have to resolve some issues. I have asked Emmanuel
Roche to clarify what he has sent or will send to to me. I've
summarized his post to clarify what it contains, and to what extent it
is an archive versus "work in progress". I believe it is more
"progress" and less "archival". HIs condition that the contents not be
released until well after his death means they are not accessable
anytime soon. Meanwhile I have plans about some of his released work,
which I will announce another time.

I'm glad that other people are discussing their archives and
distribution and/or preservation of them. My comments:

Barry Watzman posts that he may make similar plans. He also notes that
he's already produced a DVD of materials which has been distributed for
sale and privately. I strongly urge anyone who has materials and
archives, to make arrangments for access and distribution WHILE THEY
ARE ALIVE. My methods of access are to provide good photocopies at
prices which allow me to economically sustain such a service. Barry may
have made similar choices.

Don Harris posts that Rlee Peters privately released a CD of CP/M
related software, to others including myself; Don in turn released it
privately to others. A good part of that CD was files of commecial
software. I've declined to offer commercial software to others on any
terms except as upon original disks. However, Dave Griffith announced
that he's distributed those files on CD with purchases of the P112.
That suggests several, dozens of copies. (Dave also apparently got
Rlee's manuals: Dave is welcome to contact me about those.)

What Dave Griffith does, and what others do, with the CD-ROM files are
for them to resolve. From my point of view, it's sufficient to note
that copies of whatever Rlee chose to copy or scan are "preserved" to
the extent that many active CP/M ers have those files; so I'm not
obliged to work "preservation" issues about that particular CD. Roche's
CD is only held by two other people, so I have to work that issue.

Some anonomous person has posted some inflammatory material in this
thread. My policy is to ignore such posts; I suggest that policy to
others. Details of that policy are on my Web site and may also be
amusing to read, otherwise it's off topic.

http://www.retrotechnology.com/herbs_stuff/offtopic.html

Finally, regarding my own estate planning, that's not for public posts.
I will simply say my wife is not clueless about what I have. Also, as
I've said above, my manuals archives have been accessable for DECADES
as part of my services. Large parts of what I offer (or don't offer)
from my collection is available on freely-downloadable sites, or on
those CD's and DVD's mentioned here. My Web site contains almost all my
"work" which is current. I have some prior "published" S-100 work in
"The Computer Journal" which I still insist is copyright by me and not
to be copied. But original TCJ magazines exist and I may yet republish
that material because there is now sufficient interest itoday in S-100
systems by people too young to have used them originally.

Speaking for myself, it's VERY time intensive to maintain and enhance a
Web site, offer manual services on demand, and also do some original
development or work. Even reporting what others do takes time. Even
copying and giving away stuff (which I don't do) takes time and/or
money. Each person who chooses to preserve old technology, has to make
a series of decisions about time, money, distribution, access, and
copying. As per this thread, it's prudent to make decisions NOW about
what happens before you die; it's very difficult to do so afterwards.

Herb Johnson

Herbert R. Johnson, New Jersey USA
<a href="http://retrotechnology.com/herbs_stuff/"> web site</a>
<a href="http://retrotechnology.net/herbs_stuff/"> domain mirror</a>
my email address: hjohnson AAT retrotechnology DOTT com
if no reply, try in a few days: herbjohnson ATT comcast DOTT net
"Herb's Stuff": old Mac, SGI, 8-inch floppy drives
S-100 IMSAI Altair computers, docs, by "Dr. S-100"

pbetti

unread,

Sep 19, 2006, 6:08:36 AM9/19/06

to

Donald Harris ha scritto:

> You may publish anything that you wish. I don't know which is PD and which
> is not. It is Rlee's work, not mine. Rlee said that he wanted to capture
> anything he could get his hands on to be sure that it wasn't lost. His last
> wishes were that the material be made available to all.
>
> Don

The complete image is online at
http://www.e-tech.net/~pbetti/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=33&Itemid=51

I have no way to identify what is PD or not and probably, most of what
is not public can be considered abandonware... Nonetheless, if someone
find in the archive material clearly copyrighted, he/she could bring it
to my attention, without flames, and it will be removed immediately.

Piergiorgio < pbetti at e-tech dot net >

French Luser

unread,

Sep 19, 2006, 8:10:10 AM9/19/06

to

Well, it so happens that I have, finally, retyped a file (I had already
retyped it at least 3 times!) and this file, in my humble opinion, is right
on target of the subject of this thread: that is to say: what is the value
of any old software, and who owns a right to copy, distribute, or whatever,
that software.

This subject is murked by the fact that the USA does not follow
international laws, or want to impose their own diktats. As I already wrote
not long ago, copyright laws in Europe (not to mention China, Africa and
Arabia) are quite different from the ones in the USA (which is said to be
tailored to protect the commercial interests of Disney, hence their
retro-fitting from 25 years to 50 years to 75 years).

There is also a big influence from the part of what is accepted to be normal
behavior in Justice: in Europe, "frivolous suings" are discouraged: if you
do one, you pay more. In the USA, it is well-known that you can pay 10
Millions of dollars if you spill some hot coffee on a customer. This is,
simply, unthinkable in Europe. Nobody has ever earned 10 Millions of dollars
selling a cup of coffee: even working 100 years. The fact that a tribunal
can pronounce such a judgment proves that the Justice system of the USA no
longer works correctly.

This said, back to our subject. Have a nice reading.

Yours Sincerely,
"French Luser"

SOFTVAL.WS4
-----------

- "The Value of Software" (post-scriptum of an article)
H.T. Gordon
DDJ, No.19, October 1977, p.42

(Retyped by Emmanuel ROCHE.)

While I wish to make the software in this paper freely available
without restriction to individual users, I retain full copyright
for any commercial use. My motivation is not greed (my fee would
be trivial and usually waived) but curiosity. Some time ago, I
sent a binary-to-decimal conversion program to MOS Technology,
stating that it was to be in the public domain. Recently, I
asked them whether they had used it in their PET. The reply was
that they did not plan to release any information on its
programs. Puzzling, since anyone who buys a PET will be able to
read its ROM. I am an admirer of their 6502 and KIM designs, and
I sympathize with their desire to avoid hassles. Still, this
gave me food for thought. Software is a trickier thing than the
books and magazine articles for which copyright law was written,
and in which changing a few words won't affect value. A
seemingly minor software revision may so enhance value that its
original will (and should) vanish forever. Like it or not, every
programmer is part of a collective mind, and progress demands
that he educate and be educated by others. There is no precise
answer to the question: what is the value of a piece of
software, and who owns that part of the value? In the software-
cost controversy argued in DDJ by Tom Pittman and others, I
strongly favor keeping all costs at the bare minimum and legal
conflicts at zero, since I am primarily a user. Program costs
are not easy to calculate. In my present "package", OPLEGL took
a lot of time, BYTNUM much less because I was only modifying
Larry Fish's logic, NUMBYT was even easier because I knew what
needed to be done, and SIMBUG was child's play. Still, all these
things were simultaneously working themselves out of my mind
and, without the basic (originally more grandiose) concept of a
scanning-debugger, I would never have bothered with OPLEGL. This
concept was inspired by Jim Butterfield's screening-out of the
64 "easy" illegals in his relocator program. I was receptive to
this because of earlier problems caused by an illegal opcode.
So, in a way, SIMBUG is a costly program.

The real value of anything is not in its cost, but in its
utility. It may cost a lot to produce a white elephant, but the
result is still worthless. In our social system, utility tends
to be measured in the marketplace, in dollars. This has worked
well for hardware, and for any software that can be inextricably
linked to hardware. Unattached software can be valued in dollars
only to the extent that users can be compelled either to buy it
or do without. But it is so readily diffusible and copiable that
many users will not buy it, except at a price little above the
cost (in money and time) of copying. Copyrighted printed matter
is now photocopied illegally by individuals with complete
impunity, because enforcement is not practical. Where law fails,
we cannot expect too much of ethics. So, the utility (in the
economic sense) of even the most useful "software" is low. One
could say the same of rainfall or sunlight!

EOF

Charles Richmond

unread,

Sep 19, 2006, 12:07:36 PM9/19/06

to

Can you post all of Rlee's material in a zip file or as an ISO
image for a CD??? That would make it easier for someone to download
everything at once...

--
+----------------------------------------------------------------+
| Charles and Francis Richmond richmond at plano dot net |
+----------------------------------------------------------------+

Donald Harris

unread,

Sep 19, 2006, 12:40:18 PM9/19/06

to

On your website you use the name Peter Rlee. It should be Rlee Peters.

Don

"Charles Richmond" <rich...@comcast.net> wrote in message
news:451015C8...@comcast.net...

pbetti

unread,

Sep 19, 2006, 6:19:28 PM9/19/06

to

Donald Harris wrote:
> On your website you use the name Peter Rlee. It should be Rlee Peters.
>
> Don

Oops! :(
Fixed. Sorry.

Piergiorgio

Axel Berger

unread,

Sep 19, 2006, 10:30:00 AM9/19/06

to

*French Luser* wrote on Tue, 06-09-19 14:10:

>in Europe, "frivolous suings" are discouraged: if you do one, you pay
>more.

In France, maybe. Germany has become very American in everything that's
bad about the USA and very Russian in everything that's good.

Jason King

unread,

Sep 20, 2006, 3:50:20 PM9/20/06

to

Which reminds me of the old joke about the difference between European
heaven and European hell.
In European heaven the Germans run the railroads, the French run the
restaurants and the English run the police. In European hell the French
run the railroads, the English run the restaurants and the Germans run
the police.
Now that I've offended everyone on the East side of the Atlantic I'll
sign off.

Andrea

unread,

Sep 20, 2006, 4:14:42 PM9/20/06

to

Jason King <jhk...@airmail.net> wrote:

> Now that I've offended everyone on the East side of the Atlantic I'll
> sign off.

No, you didn't offend everyone...there are many other Countries in
Europe apart from Great Britain, France and Germany. I am from Italy,
for example.
But wait...you did offend my Country too! You think it's insignificant,
that's for sure because you didn't even mention it!
:))
Andrea

--
http://myretrocomputing.altervista.org

dgr...@cs.csbuak.edu

unread,

Sep 20, 2006, 4:19:47 PM9/20/06

to

You've offended those of us with Italian blood... :-P

--
David Griffith
dgr...@cs.csubak.edu

A: Because it fouls the order in which people normally read text.
Q: Why is top-posting such a bad thing?
A: Top-posting.
Q: What is the most annoying thing in e-mail?

Jason King

unread,

Sep 20, 2006, 4:43:20 PM9/20/06

to

dgr...@cs.csbuak.edu wrote:
> Jason King <jhk...@airmail.net> wrote:
>> Axel Berger wrote:
>>> *French Luser* wrote on Tue, 06-09-19 14:10:
>>>> in Europe, "frivolous suings" are discouraged: if you do one, you pay
>>>> more.
>>> In France, maybe. Germany has become very American in everything that's
>>> bad about the USA and very Russian in everything that's good.
>>>
>> Which reminds me of the old joke about the difference between European
>> heaven and European hell.
>> In European heaven the Germans run the railroads, the French run the
>> restaurants and the English run the police. In European hell the French
>> run the railroads, the English run the restaurants and the Germans run
>> the police.
>> Now that I've offended everyone on the East side of the Atlantic I'll
>> sign off.
>
> You've offended those of us with Italian blood... :-P
>

I had heard that joke once with the Italians taking the place of the
French but considering who started the original thread I had to go with
the French version.

idk...@gmail.com

unread,

Sep 21, 2006, 4:59:06 AM9/21/06

to

i'm sure there's someone in Ireland who'd take exception too ;) But
French Luser didnt mention them either; oh well :)

I dont have the neuron to do so. LOL

Andreas Eder

unread,

Sep 21, 2006, 1:42:17 PM9/21/06

to

Hi Jason,

>>>>> "Jason" == Jason King <jhk...@airmail.net> writes:
Jason> Which reminds me of the old joke about the difference between European
Jason> heaven and European hell.
Jason> In European heaven the Germans run the railroads, the French run the
Jason> restaurants and the English run the police. In European hell the
Jason> French run the railroads, the English run the restaurants and the
Jason> Germans run the police.

The sad thing is that nowadays the french railroad system is better
managed than the german one. I know it, I'm german and have used the DB
quite often lately.

'are

--
Wherever I lay my .emacs, there's my $HOME.

French Luser

unread,

Sep 22, 2006, 3:49:42 AM9/22/06

to

Hello, everybody!

I am just back from the Hospital, where they removed 5 polyps from my body.
The polyps will now be analyzed, to see if they were cancerous.

Meanwhile, unfortunately, the thread degenerated in joke about the
Europeans...

Would you mind re-targeting the "salient part" of the original message:

> The real value of anything is not in its cost, but in its
> utility. It may cost a lot to produce a white elephant, but the
> result is still worthless. In our social system, utility tends
> to be measured in the marketplace, in dollars. This has worked
> well for hardware, and for any software that can be inextricably
> linked to hardware. Unattached software can be valued in dollars
> only to the extent that users can be compelled either to buy it
> or do without. But it is so readily diffusible and copiable that
> many users will not buy it, except at a price little above the
> cost (in money and time) of copying. Copyrighted printed matter
> is now photocopied illegally by individuals with complete
> impunity, because enforcement is not practical. Where law fails,
> we cannot expect too much of ethics. So, the utility (in the
> economic sense) of even the most useful "software" is low. One
> could say the same of rainfall or sunlight!

Yours Sincerely,
"French Luser"

Jason King

unread,

Sep 22, 2006, 5:25:34 PM9/22/06

to

M. Roche
I wish for you the best news from your doctors. The humor was in no way
related to your condition or meant to be directed at you, "serious as
cancer" is a fairly common American idiom.

French Luser

unread,

Sep 23, 2006, 7:52:20 AM9/23/06

to

Hello, Dave!

Someone else said that you got the manuals of Rlee Peters.

Would you mind reading the following? (Prepared at home.)

Yours Sincerely,
"French Luser"

UBUG.WS4
--------

Hello, Dave

Please read the following (taken from "Appendix A -- CP/M
Assemblers" of "The Amstrad CP/M Plus" book (1986), which was a
best-seller in Europe, and was written by 2 of the heads of the
CP/M User Group (UK)):

"A separate line to Gary Kildall's (assembly language)
development system was the TDL package. Neil Colvin was
responsible for one of the first Z-80 assemblers, and it
certainly is a product that grew into maturity. For some time,
it was tape- rather than disk-based, and it was a surprisingly
long time before it was available under CP/M on disk. It
appeared before MAC, and was one of the first CP/M macro-
assemblers. It came with a linker and a debugger. This assembler
positively bristled with features, and is still a preferred tool
with many Z-80 assembly programmers. It eschewed the Zilog
mnemonics for its own brand of Intel's mnemonics. The pseudo-ops
were quite different, and completely idiosyncratic. TDL's
extended Intel mnemonics became more commonly used than Zilog's,
and were easier to implement in assemblers and disassemblers.
The manual for the assembler was thorough and complete, but
required a familiarity with computer science. It was not easy.
TDL disappeared suddenly and the software was then sold as:

MACROII.COM
DEBUG.COM
LINK.COM

Neil Colvin moved to P.S.A. (Phoenix) and the assembler
reappeared with 2 new and powerful bedfellows that breathed new
life into the product:

PASM.COM
BUG.COM (or UBUG.COM)
PLINK.COM (or PLINKII.COM)

Undoubtedly, the Phoenix package is the most expensive, but most
versatile and powerful development package available with CP/M,
and vill even support overlays. BUG and PLINK are remarkable
products. PLINK has the most sophisticated methods of handling
overlays of all the linkers, and manages to link together
modules developed using different REL formats. It was also the
first linker on CP/M that linked to disc, allowing the linkage
of large COM files. BUG is a maddening product, in that it has a
range of useful advanced features, yet has a poor user-
interface, requiring multiple keystrokes where SID needs but
one. It lacks passpoints, one of SID's best features, and cannot
handle symbols. It gives the impression of being stopped in mid-
development and, now that the world has moved to 16-bit
software, I suppose that BUGII will not see the light of day.
Phoenix now produce the best 16-bit development system, but have
abandonned CP/M-86 for MS-DOS."

So, could you check into Rlee Peter's manuals, to see which
TDL/Phoenix manuals he had?

If possible, I would prefer a photocopy of them. Since they are
20-years old manuals, they are no longer urgent, so you can send
them to me the cheapest way. I don't care the speed, as long as
I finally get them.

(You could take this opportunity to make PDF files of them, if
you prefer. The last time I tried, I did not find them on the
Internet.)

Yours Sincerely,
"French Luser"

EOF

Dave Griffith

unread,

Sep 23, 2006, 1:52:49 PM9/23/06

to

French Luser <Gary.K...@digital.research.com> wrote:
> Hello, Dave!

> Someone else said that you got the manuals of Rlee Peters.

> Would you mind reading the following? (Prepared at home.)

[snip]

> So, could you check into Rlee Peter's manuals, to see which
> TDL/Phoenix manuals he had?

Of course. I'll print this posting and take it with me when I go
digging though the storage unit on Monday.

Message has been deleted

French Luser

unread,

Sep 25, 2006, 10:18:27 AM9/25/06

to

"What is Literate Programming?"
Silvio Levy
(First paragraph of "Literate Programming in C", TUG, VIII,
1987.)

(Retyped by Emmanuel ROCHE.)

"Literate programming" is a phrase introduced by Don Knuth
[1984] to designate a style of writing programs in which
documentation and code are of equal importance, and are written
more or less simultaneously. One aims not only at writing code
that works, but also at explaining to oneself and other possible
readers of the program how and why the code works. This is best
done by presenting concepts and algorithms in human language,
and in the order that seems most convenient for exposition to
humans -- which is often not the order that is most convenient
for the use of the computer.

The inclusion of "oneself" in the previous paragraph may sound
silly, but is actually crucial: a programmer who goes back to a
program he or she wrote 6 months before, and did not document
adequately, generally finds it as incomprehensible as if it had
been written by someone else. Explaining the code to oneself
also helps one make fewer mistakes, thus reducing debugging
time.

Knuth developed the idea of literate programming several steps
beyond the documentation facilities offered by most programming
languages, which generally consist merely of some way of
embedding comments in the code. He invented WEB, a documentation
system consisting of 2 parts: TANGLE, which takes a source
program containing pieces of code and explanatory TeX text and
rearranges the code according to the user's instructions,
producing a computer program ready to be compiled; and WEAVE,
which from the same source produces a TeX document, including
various useful indexes and fully-formatted code.

Thus, "WEB" is not just a program but a class of programs, like
"compiler", in the sense that it can be realized in different
ways, and for different programming languages [Knuth 1984].
Knuth's implementation was designed for Pascal and, in fact,
incorporates additional facilities, like macros and string
handling, that enhance Pascal's capabilities. The use of this
"first WEB system" is exemplified in [Knuth 1984] (a fascinating
paper, which deserves to be read independently of the merits of
WEB), and fully described in a manual [Knuth 1984]. The manual
is short, because a programmer familiar with Pascal, and having
at least a nodding acquaintance with TeX, really doesn't have
much else to learn in order to start using WEB: the possibly
hard part is to acquire the discipline and the verbal skills
necessary to express oneself clearly...

EOF

s_dub...@yahoo.com

unread,

Sep 30, 2006, 8:01:16 AM9/30/06

to

French Luser wrote:
> "What is Literate Programming?"
> Silvio Levy
> (First paragraph of "Literate Programming in C", TUG, VIII,
> 1987.)
>
> (Retyped by Emmanuel ROCHE.)
>
> "Literate programming" is a phrase introduced by Don Knuth
> [1984] to designate a style of writing programs in which
> documentation and code are of equal importance, and are written
> more or less simultaneously. One aims not only at writing code
> that works, but also at explaining to oneself and other possible
> readers of the program how and why the code works. This is best
> done by presenting concepts and algorithms in human language,
> and in the order that seems most convenient for exposition to
> humans -- which is often not the order that is most convenient
> for the use of the computer.
>

Here is a reference to FunnelWeb --
"THIS REFERENCE MANUAL provides a concise and precise definition of the
functionality of the FunnelWeb literate programming preprocessor."

http://www.ross.net/funnelweb/reference/index.html

Steve

French Luser

unread,

Sep 30, 2006, 11:32:04 AM9/30/06

to

Hello, Steve!

>Here is a reference to FunnelWeb --

I am sorry to report that I am very, very little impressed by it.

As explained, the concept is portable to any PL/formatter pair: there are
already dozens done (read the FAQ). I don't know was is your favorite PL, but
me, I was thinking, of course, to make a BASIC/WS4 implementation, keeping it
portable to CP/M 2.2, CP/M-86, and MS-DOS (the 3 OSes for which BASIC and WS4
is available -- err, according to the paper doc, since some files are
missing... but that's another story, or another program can be used: there is
not the slightest doubt that CBASIC is available for all 3 OSes, since I have
them, and TEX could be used (since it is the basis of the formatter used by
WS4) once it would be recompiled for CP/M-86 (thus providing yet another
useful tool for CP/M-86 (unless you prefer ROFF))).

Yours Sincerely,
"French Luser"

m...@privacy.net

unread,

Oct 3, 2006, 7:00:05 AM10/3/06

to

Jim Higgins wrote:

>
>French Luser <Gary.K...@Digital.Research.com> wrote:
>
>>So, could you check into Rlee Peter's manuals, to see which
>>TDL/Phoenix manuals he had?
>>
>>If possible, I would prefer a photocopy of them. Since they are
>>20-years old manuals, they are no longer urgent, so you can send
>>them to me the cheapest way. I don't care the speed, as long as
>>I finally get them.
>>
>>(You could take this opportunity to make PDF files of them, if
>>you prefer. The last time I tried, I did not find them on the
>>Internet.)
>>
>>Yours Sincerely,
>>"French Luser"
>

>That seems like a pretty gutsy request considering your own policy
>toward sharing your own material. Kudos to Dave for his positive
>response.

Note that French Loser refuses to even discuss sharing the many
files written by others that he claims to have in his posession.

Any bets on whether those files are on the CDs he supposedly
sent to a select few? I am betting that he only sent his own
work

The end result of all of this will be invaluable things like
Kildall interviews being lost forever -- all because of the
emotional problems of one person.

Bill

unread,

Oct 3, 2006, 11:18:05 AM10/3/06

to

On Tue, 03 Oct 2006 11:00:05 +0000, m...@privacy.net wrote:

>Jim Higgins wrote:

>The end result of all of this will be invaluable things like
>Kildall interviews being lost forever -- all because of the
>emotional problems of one person.

I agree Kildall had some serious emotional problems, in
particular how to cope with all the attention and ''admiration''
showered upon gates as innovator and businessman.

From reports by those close to him it seems obvious that he
tried alcohol to deaden the raw nerves and still the disturbing
thoughts.

What is it you wanted from him?

He once said a programmer has only one good operating
system in him - thus in one sentence both telling us he wouldn't
expect himself to be able to top CP/M, which in hindsight
we all know was limited, and needed replacing; AND also
explaining why it turned out Tim Paterson was never able
to come close to anything nearly as 'useful' as DOS even
up to and including serious work upgrading even just that
ONE supposedly original ''creation''.

Stewart Cheifet clearly didn't understand nor appreciate
the creative genius sitting next to him for all those six
years we can review in Computer Chronicles episodes.

But you can look at them, and decide for yourself.

In fact, few if any mere 'users' can ever understand the
creativeness behind the things they simply 'use'. I'm sure
that's what's revealed when for example a young person is
shown the man, and magic, behind the curtain. Those able
to create loose interest in consuming the creations of others
in part finding out they can do as well, or better, themselves.

It may be unfortunate, but in the end it's the ''users'' who will
decide the $$ winners - buying for the most part the lowest
common denominator crap, electing the candidates who
make the most emotional appeal to that lowest common
denominator, and eating the fast foods that, while in the end
prove poisonous to human growth and heathy life never
the less fill the urgent need to ingest something, right now!

I like to think Kildall would have immensely enjoyed Linus
Torvolds, all the more so had he lived long enough to hear
about the restless nights Linux has caused the gatester.

Or did you mean to suggest Roche has emotional problems?
Oh, no ... he's just... well...French. They're all like that.

Bill

Message has been deleted

m...@privacy.net

unread,

Oct 5, 2006, 9:16:35 AM10/5/06

to

Roche/French Luser has that particular type of emotional problem
that leads him to horde files written by others that are of great
historical value. First he lied about not being able to afford to
burn a CD, then he lied again by claiming that it is only his own
work that he refuses to allow anyone to publish on the web.

CP/M doesn't need replacing, and MS-DOS isn't all that useful
compared to UNIX,

m...@privacy.net

unread,

Oct 5, 2006, 9:26:10 AM10/5/06

to

Jim Higgins wrote:

>Bill <bi...@sunsouthwest.com> wrote:
>
>>m...@privacy.net wrote:
>>
>>>Jim Higgins wrote:
>>
>>>The end result of all of this will be invaluable things like
>>>Kildall interviews being lost forever -- all because of the
>>>emotional problems of one person.
>

>For the record, I never said the above. That moron m...@privacy.net
>hasn't learned how to quote properly.

Get your facts straight before making accusations, asshole.

The following posts -- quoted in full -- clearly show that
it is "Bill <bi...@sunsouthwest.com>" who hasn't learned
how to quote properly.

I await your apology.

++start of quote++

Newsgroups: comp.os.cpm
Subject: Re: Last Will and Testament of "French Luser"
From: m...@privacy.net
Date: Tue, 03 Oct 2006 11:00:05 +0000
Message-ID: <0K-dnYPMisIq37_Y...@giganews.com>

Jim Higgins wrote:
>
>French Luser <Gary.K...@Digital.Research.com> wrote:
>
>>So, could you check into Rlee Peter's manuals, to see which
>>TDL/Phoenix manuals he had?
>>
>>If possible, I would prefer a photocopy of them. Since they are
>>20-years old manuals, they are no longer urgent, so you can send
>>them to me the cheapest way. I don't care the speed, as long as
>>I finally get them.
>>
>>(You could take this opportunity to make PDF files of them, if
>>you prefer. The last time I tried, I did not find them on the
>>Internet.)
>>
>>Yours Sincerely,
>>"French Luser"
>
>That seems like a pretty gutsy request considering your own policy
>toward sharing your own material. Kudos to Dave for his positive
>response.

Note that French Loser refuses to even discuss sharing the many
files written by others that he claims to have in his posession.

Any bets on whether those files are on the CDs he supposedly
sent to a select few? I am betting that he only sent his own
work

The end result of all of this will be invaluable things like

Kildall interviews being lost forever -- all because of the
emotional problems of one person.

++end of quote++

++start of quote++

>Jim Higgins wrote:

Bill

++end of quote++

nos...@nouce.bellatlantic.net

unread,

Oct 5, 2006, 9:52:50 AM10/5/06

to

On Thu, 05 Oct 2006 13:16:35 +0000, m...@privacy.net wrote:

>
>
>
>CP/M doesn't need replacing, and MS-DOS isn't all that useful
>compared to UNIX,

I'm confused by your comparison of MSdos to Unix. MSdos is a single
user, single task OS that can so some background tasks. Unix is a
multiuser multitasking OS. Different design goals and vastly
different uses.

From my point of view CP/M, MSdos and Unix OS are equally useless
without the supporting utilities and applications. All three are only
there to support applications and user interface.

Allison

Message has been deleted

idk...@gmail.com

unread,

Oct 7, 2006, 5:58:55 AM10/7/06

to

m...@privacy.net wrote:
> Jim Higgins wrote:
> >
> >French Luser <Gary.K...@Digital.Research.com> wrote:
> >

[snip]

> The end result of all of this will be invaluable things like
> Kildall interviews being lost forever -- all because of the
> emotional problems of one person.

Without partaking in the surrounding argument, might i offer two
things;
one, that Kildall is in our future; and, two that it would take alot of
work for the internet content to be lost, both from public archives and
the
private ones also!!!

On that note, why not repost an intermittent list of where those
archives
are more often so we can copy what we want to have?

Surely one man cannot be the sole holder of unique content of that
which was
originally available to the public?

Respectfully, i dont know. :)

m...@privacy.net

unread,

Oct 8, 2006, 6:14:13 AM10/8/06

to

French Luser has, in the past, claimed to have in his possession
files from the early days of CP/M that nobody else has.

Many people have offered to put those files on the web.

French Luser refuses to share the files, choosing instead to
pretend that he doesn't have enough money to burn them to a
CD and send them to one of the many people willing to publish
them on the web.

s_dub...@yahoo.com

unread,

Oct 12, 2006, 9:35:18 PM10/12/06

to

For those looking for the TeX Faq:

http://www.tex.ac.uk/cgi-bin/texfaq2html?label=archives

Also interesting is the TeX Archive.

French Luser

unread,

Oct 14, 2006, 8:41:30 AM10/14/06

to

Hello, "me"

>French Luser has, in the past, claimed to have in his possession
>files from the early days of CP/M that nobody else has.

Indeed. In particular, I have the only translation, in French, of the CP/M
manuals (about 2 inches tall), and the translation, in French, of the Z-80 CPU
manual.

They are absolute rarities: it is impossible to find them on the Internet.

(For years (about 10 years), I have been the only French participating to the
comp.os.cpm Newsgroup but, for *YOU* only (since you seem to have a particular
fondness of me...), I would make you a favor: if you cover the price of
photocopying them and the time taken to photocopy them, then I would send you
a photocopy of them (I was forgetting: 2 inches of paper will probably cost
some money to be sent by post...), so you can finally read those 30-years old
French technical documents. This way, you will finally find the doc needed to
program CP/M. Just send me your postal and e-mail addresses. Mines have been
given several times. I am not a paranoiac.)

"French Luser"

m...@privacy.net

unread,

Oct 14, 2006, 11:52:35 PM10/14/06

to

Does your offer extend to anyone who will cover the costs and send you a
postal address, or is it limited to one person who suspects that you are
a potential stalker who means him harm?

There are many here who would be glad to scan those docs and put them on the
net -- as well as any other material you are hording. Try the fellow who
offered to mail you a CD-ROM burner.

French Luser

unread,

Oct 16, 2006, 8:13:00 AM10/16/06

to

"me" wrote:

> Does your offer extend to anyone who will cover the costs and send you a
> postal address, or is it limited to one person who suspects that you are
> a potential stalker who means him harm?

No, no. Study English. I said "*YOU*", since you are so found of me and my
work.

Wondering who you are, I did a short Google search, and found one

Freek H. Heite
Ensahlaan 37 (near the local railway station)
3723HT Bilthoven
The Netherlands

Tel.030 2292523
Fax.030 2292524

fhe...@knoware.nl

Ever heard about him? He had a Web page selling Apple II stuff.

> There are many here who would be glad to scan those docs and put them on the
> net -- as well as any other material you are hording. Try the fellow who
> offered to mail you a CD-ROM burner.

They are in French, and I have been the only one here for the last 10 years...
But it could help you improve your French.

As for "any other material", I am not "hording" it. Just retyping it from old
photocopies or old microcomputer magazines. (See how many times I gave the
reference, at the beginning of my work.) I guess that you have a keyboard,
too, don't you? Then you can do it... So, why are you not doing it? I even
know paralytic people who participate on the Internet. But, of course, they
are not paranoiac, them.

"French Luser"

m...@privacy.net

unread,

Oct 17, 2006, 1:40:58 AM10/17/06

to

Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8Bit

Emmanuel Roche wrote:
>
>"me" wrote:
>
>> Does your offer extend to anyone who will cover the costs
>> and send you a postal address, or is it limited to one
>> person who suspects that you are a potential stalker who
>> means him harm?
>
>No, no. Study English. I said "*YOU*",

That's what I thought. Another insincere pretend-offer to share.

>since you are so found[sic] of me and my work.

Fond of you? I despise you. Everyone who has ever dealt with you
despises you. You are one of the rudest and most childish people
on the Internet. Ask anyone.

Here is where your childishness will one day take you: one day you
will die, just as we all do eventually. When you do, someone will
take the only French translation of the CP/M manuals and the Z-80
CPU manual, and they will throw it in the trash along with all the
other material your are hording. A hundred years from now, a
historian will read these words I am writing now and curse you for
your selfishness.

>Wondering who you are, I did a short Google search, and found one
>
>Freek H. Heite

>[deleted] 37 (near the local railway station)
>3723HT [deleted]
>The Netherlands

Guess again, surrender monkey! Hint: Ihre Mutter ist wie ein
Staubsauger: sie saugt, bläst und landet dann im Wandschrank.

>Tel.030 [deleted]
>Fax.030 [deleted]
>
>fheite@[delted].nl

This confirms my suspicions. You are an Internet stalker.
You are publishing the address and phone number of innocent
third parties without permission. That is evil.

Emmanuel Roche
Chemin de Boisrond 17430
Tonnat-Charente France
(I will publish your phone number as soon as I find it)

>Ever heard about him? He had a Web page selling Apple II stuff.

Idiot.

In July 2001, Freek Heite wrote and released a software driver
which enables CP/M-86 For The IBM to utilize up to 120 megs
of hard disk space.

It also allows "CP/M-86 For The IBM" to be installed on ultra-huge
multi-gigabyte hard disks -- a feat that's impossible to accomplish
with DRI's native 'HDMAINT.CMD' utility.

Heite's 'CVV' driver was a marvelous technological advance, and is
now considered a "standard" by the IBM-based CP/M-86 computing
community.

You aren't worthy to lick Heite's boots.

>> There are many here who would be glad to scan those docs and
>> put them on the net -- as well as any other material you are
>> hording. Try the fellow who offered to mail you a CD-ROM burner.
>
>They are in French, and I have been the only one here for the
>last 10 years... But it could help you improve your French.

Another stupid excuse. You always have an excuse for not
sharing. Because nobody in one newsgroup is French, you will
deprive all French people of those manuals forever.

>As for "any other material", I am not "hording" it.

Yes you are. If you weren't you would allow anyone who is
willing to cover your costs have a copy of French translation
of the CP/M manuals and the Z-80 CPU manual. Instead you horde
them, and many other historical documents.

Go fuck yourself, frog loser. Future generations will know you as
the selfish pig who allowed many historical documents to be lost
when many people were willing to publish them on the Internet so
they would be available forever.

French Luser

unread,

Oct 17, 2006, 3:45:57 AM10/17/06

to

"me" wrote ("me", or "you"?):

> Here is where your childishness will one day take you: one day you will die,
> just as we all do eventually. When you do, someone will take the only
> French translation of the CP/M manuals and the Z-80 CPU manual, and they
> will throw it in the trash along with all the other material your are
> hording.

Ho! I was forgetting: when the Amstrads were a best-seller, I did translate
the "SID User's Guide" in French. I also made a version with a patched version
of HELP, so you could have the full text of the manual available on your
screen, while you were debugging a program. I showed it to a few persons who
were publishing magazines for (French) Amstrad owners, but they said that
assembly language and programming were to difficult, and that those French
persons interested in them would make the effort to learn English.

> Emmanuel Roche
> Chemin de Boisrond 17430
> Tonnat-Charente France (I will publish your phone number as soon as I
> find it)

My correct postal address is:

Mr Emmanuel ROCHE
Chemin de Boisrond
17430 Tonnay-Charente
FRANCE

(It is at the beginning of all my assembly language programs.)

As for the phone number, you will have some difficulties, since I have none.
(I am just back from a trip to England, where I used an old "cell" (American)
/ "mobile" (English) / "portable" (French) "phone" that was given to me, but I
decided that it was more bother than help, so I have discarded it. The number
was 06.74.67.73.03, if you want to try. It is valid until the end of October.)

> Go fuck yourself, frog loser. Future generations will know you as the
> selfish pig who allowed many historical documents to be lost
> when many people were willing to publish them on the Internet so
> they would be available forever.

I don't know what you mean by "historical documents". I have a book in Russian
containing (apparently) the whole CP/M 2.2 manuals translated in Russian.

During my very recent trip to England, I got a manual containing (apparently)
the whole CP/M 2.2 manuals translated in Japanese (there is even a page
explaining what DMA is).

Are you interested in CP/M 2.2? Then, why don't you publish anything about it?

"French Luser"

m...@privacy.net

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Oct 17, 2006, 5:51:49 PM10/17/06

to

French Luser wrote:

>Are you interested in CP/M 2.2?

Yes. CP/M 2.2 is an important part of the history of computing.

>Then, why don't you publish anything about it?

I am a historian, not an author.

Why don't you just let people put the material you are hording
on the Internet? Why, when you have had offers to cover your
copying and postage expenses, don't you simply agree, wait for
the payment, and send them the material? Why horde it until you
die and it all gets thrown in the trash? What possibe motive
could you possibly have for keeping things to yourself? Please
don't reply with more excuses that you and I both know are not
true.

m...@privacy.net

unread,

Oct 18, 2006, 10:40:47 AM10/18/06

to

French Luser's refusal to answer noted.

Richard Brady

unread,

Oct 18, 2006, 1:08:07 PM10/18/06

to

I for one, weary of your nastiness and constant attacks. Please find
someone else to torment in another newsgroup.

Richard Brady