CP/M sofware for packet radio and TCP/IP
Richard Loken
Is there any software around? I know that there is a version of tcp/ip some
where and I understand Phil Karn wrote his eary stuff on CP/M. Does somebody
have the early Karn package? Assuming it exists of course.
I sort of hope there isn't any, then I will have to write some. Build an
interface and shoot for 56k :)
********* 73
********** Richard Loken VE6BSV
. ****
.. **** Athabasca University
.... **** Athabasca, Alberta Canada
..........**** te...@cs.AthabascaU.CA {alberta|decwrl}!atha!tech
Phil R. Karn
>This question has been asked, and I wasn't interested at the time.
>
>Is there any software around? I know that there is a version of tcp/ip some
>where and I understand Phil Karn wrote his eary stuff on CP/M. Does somebody
>have the early Karn package? Assuming it exists of course.
>
>I sort of hope there isn't any, then I will have to write some. Build an
>interface and shoot for 56k :)
Yes, my code did indeed begin life on CP/M, specifically the Xerox 820.
But this was five years ago, and much has happened in the meantime to PC
clone pricing and availability to make me wonder why anybody would still
be interested in CP/M. With XT clone boards having bottomed out at $60
or so, and with a well-established and highly competitive supplier network
supporting PC technology, why bother with Z-80s and CP/M? I just don't see
the point.
Phil
Mike R. Kraml
My reasons are:
A. I have a Televideo TS802H (10 meg hard drive) still in excellent condition
and I can't think of a better use for it.
B. I have invested several thousand dollars in my current development system
and can't afford to let the thing run day and night for packet.
C. I have no real desire to own a pc clone at any price.
So, if you do still have some CPM code laying around that would run on an old
CPM box I am sure a lot of those good old CPM boxes cound use the work out.
Thanks, and 73, Mike WQ0N
--
=============================================================================
Mike Kraml - Manager-Separations MECHANIZATION - SWBT - (The Techies)
UUCP: {uunet, bellcore, texbell}...!swbatl!slims!ammrk
=============================================================================
Dave Ratcliffe
> In article <17...@aurora.AthabascaU.CA> te...@cs.AthabascaU.CA (Richard Loken) writes:
> >This question has been asked, and I wasn't interested at the time.
> >
> >Is there any software around? I know that there is a version of tcp/ip some
> >where and I understand Phil Karn wrote his eary stuff on CP/M. Does somebody
> >have the early Karn package? Assuming it exists of course.
>
> But this was five years ago, and much has happened in the meantime to PC
> clone pricing and availability to make me wonder why anybody would still
> be interested in CP/M. With XT clone boards having bottomed out at $60
> or so, and with a well-established and highly competitive supplier network
> supporting PC technology, why bother with Z-80s and CP/M? I just don't see
> the point.
Phil, maybe he likes it! I have a Molecular Mod. 9 in my little room with 2
Seiko 8610's nearby. All operational, all (gasp) CP-MP/M or N-Star and all
multi-user. Nice machines, fun to hack on and just play with. There is
LOTS I'd like to find for these 2 (Seiko and Molecular) machines as
well. Also have a PC next to the Seiko's. The Seiko's are more fun. I'd
like to find a terminal program that will run on the Seiko's 8086. Maybe
even something for the Mole's 8080. Maybe you don't see the point now
but lots of us still like to play around with admittedly older but
sometimes more intriguing systems.
BTW, if anyone DOES have any term program that'll run on either of these
'old technology' :-) machines, I'll be happy to hear from you.
*>> Dave <<*
[------: Dave Ratcliffe :---------:---: UUCP: uunet!wa3wbu!compnect!dave :----]
: : The Data Factory BBS :
: : Data: (717)657-4997 - (717)657-4992 :
[.................................:...........................................]
Andrew Payne
>In article <21...@bellcore.bellcore.com> ka...@jupiter.bellcore.com (Phil R. Karn) writes:
>>clone pricing and availability to make me wonder why anybody would still
>>be interested in CP/M. With XT clone boards having bottomed out at $60
This item joggled my memory about a question I've been meaning to
ask for a while. What's the smallest PC system configuration you can get
away with? I had in mind: motherboard, drive controller, drive, power
supply, and any necessary packet I/O boards. No display card, display,
keyboard.
Motivation being setting up a dedicated packet switch. It sure
would be cheaper than outfitting a full system and would be less power
hungry.
I know my BIOS would balk right away at no display and keyboard, but
I was wondering if anyone had tried such a configuration?
Any comments appreciated.
--
= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
Andrew C. Payne, N8KEI UUCP: ...!cornell!batcomputer!payne
INTERNET: pa...@tcgould.tn.cornell.edu
Jon T. Adams
>In article <13...@swbatl.sbc.com> am...@swbatl.UUCP (Mike R. Kraml) writes:
>>In article <21...@bellcore.bellcore.com> ka...@jupiter.bellcore.com (Phil R. Karn) writes:
>>>clone pricing and availability to make me wonder why anybody would still
>>>be interested in CP/M. With XT clone boards having bottomed out at $60
> ^^^
>
> This item joggled my memory about a question I've been meaning to
>ask for a while. What's the smallest PC system configuration you can get
>away with? I had in mind: motherboard, drive controller, drive, power
>supply, and any necessary packet I/O boards. No display card, display,
>keyboard.
> Motivation being setting up a dedicated packet switch. It sure
>would be cheaper than outfitting a full system and would be less power
>hungry.
> I know my BIOS would balk right away at no display and keyboard, but
>I was wondering if anyone had tried such a configuration?
>Andrew C. Payne, N8KEI UUCP: ...!cornell!batcomputer!payne
Our group in the Los Angeles / Southern California area has been building
up low-cost PCs for packet switching nodes for the last year or so. Being
in SoCal, the land of the cheap clone and 100000000000000000 Chinese computer
vendors, there's quite a good selection of components at cheap prices. And,
if the stuff doesn't work right, the vendors are usually local.
Anyway, a 10MHz XT mother board w/ 0k RAM can be had for as little as $53;
I've even seen a few 12MHz boards for $50, but that's a rarity. RAM costs
about $1.70 per chip for 256-10 stuff, sometimes a bit more. Nine of those
get you the minimum 256k RAM; eighteen are preferable.
Power supplies new are $25 to $35; an old (but fully working) 65 watt supply
may be as little as $10. Cases are 10 to 20 bucks, new maybe 25. Monochrome
boards are 15 to 20. Dual port serial cards (if you plan on using your
standard external TNC2 modem) are as little as $10 with one port stuffed, or
18 to 20 with both ports stuffed.
Most BIOSes that I have seen don't require a keyboard for proper
operation; the majority of them will beep and imform you of a system error
but will merrily go onward and continue to boot. If you set the switches on
the motherboard for an EGA video display, the AMI BIOSes (at least) will
happily work without a display board.
So, let's add up what it would cost (on the average ) for a very basic PC
if purchased on any given Saturday at the Chinese computer Show.
10MHz XT board w/BIOS and 0k RAM : $58
256k RAM : $19
Power Supply and Case : $40
Dual-Port Serial Card : $19
total : $136
Oh, add six bucks for the admission fee; add a few bucks for gas and
parking, and driving time... Then, if you want me to get this stuff for you,
add my commission and the total will be about $35,000 @:)...
Adios and 73 - Jon
--
Jon Trent Adams, NW6H | "Amateur Radio isn't Everything;
J...@hydra.jpl.nasa.gov | It's the ONLY thing..." - JTA
These are just OPINIONS, ok?!? | Ladies! >Single homeowner w/convertible<
"Shove it into RUN-8 and we'll see what this baby can do!" - JTA
aNk1ez
Z80b-6MHz (Mostly CompuPro stuff) CPU-Z board,with 3 RAM17 boards (64k that
supports the extended 24bit addressing for 192k system ram) , c
CompuPro SMB-2 board for boot and some I/O, Fulcrum Tech.'s VIO-X1 video board
connected to a Samsung Amber Digital monitor, a ComputerWatch RTC, Two GodBout
DISK1 boards (running 2 MPE 1.2mb 8" drives and 4 360k DDDS 5.25" drives
respectivly) a DISK2 board connected to a Segate 80mb harddrive (some hack,
huh? I'm proud of it!) SSM's IO4 and IO5 boards for lotsa RS232 and Parallel
(been working on making this old TRS80 into a parallel terminal(ish) thing since
these parallel ports are all Bi-Directional. would be cool) A Tarbell 8"
controller that is hooked up to one (wouldn't want more) 256k 8" floppy
(only thing its used for is formatting and transfering data to/from the
pdp11/34's rx01 drive.. (damn DEC. can't even make their drives able to
format a floppy. thanks a lot.) and tto top it off, Jade's "Bus Probe" and
a homebuilt Hex display for address/IO... oh, its also using an IBM clone
101 key keyboard (Better than that old IMSAI IKB-1 anyday!)
I'm quite proud of my box, as ya can tell.. anyways, coupla questions...
(oh, if you've got a standard Z80SIO, i've got a great home-hacked comm
program.. (well, I'm not responsible for writing it.. My cohort "Dent" is
.. full featured and its under 3 K. Great for ROMing.. (It even has SCROLL
BACK!! heh. i'll have him post the source.) anyways, coupla questions.
I have another S100 machine that is sitting in my garage waiting
to be reassembled. there are quite a few Z80a CPU boards out there.
(As in 4 of them. and one 8080 board) i was wondering if anyone knew
of anyone else | has info on how to hook up more than one processor to
a S100 bus... I'd really enjoy having a multiprocessor Z80 machine
lying around, and i could apply the same trick to Leviathan (the big
Uzi / CP/M machine described above).. would be a righteous hack.
Thanx in advance, if theres anyone to thank.
Techs / cs25...@carina.unm.edu aNk1e ByT0rz k1Ub common account
Insert disclaimer of your choice here. This Disclaimer Space Intentionally
Left Blank..
Richard Loken
> Yes, my code did indeed begin life on CP/M, specifically the Xerox 820.
> But this was five years ago, and much has happened in the meantime to PC
> clone pricing and availability to make me wonder why anybody would still
> be interested in CP/M. With XT clone boards having bottomed out at $60
> or so, and with a well-established and highly competitive supplier network
> supporting PC technology, why bother with Z-80s and CP/M? I just don't see
> the point.
>
> Phil
Because I own a CP/M box.
Because I like to see how how much can be done with 64k and 4MHz.
Because I don't like 80xx boxes.
Because I feel like it.
Because this is a hobby and economic justification is irrelevant.
Phil Karn
>ask for a while. What's the smallest PC system configuration you can get
>away with? I had in mind: motherboard, drive controller, drive, power
>supply, and any necessary packet I/O boards. No display card, display,
>keyboard.
> Motivation being setting up a dedicated packet switch. It sure
>would be cheaper than outfitting a full system and would be less power
>hungry.
I'm doing exactly this right here. I have a stripped XT that runs my code as
a dedicated IP gateway between my shack Ethernet and a 220.55 MHz 56kb
packet channel. It consists of a case, power supply, XT motherboard, single
360K floppy drive, Ethernet interface and DRSI PCPA card (to talk to the
modem). When I turn it on, it boots automatically. I leave it on 24
hours/day. I can't remember what all the parts cost, but just go to one of
the PC computer shows and you can certainly price a comparable system very
quickly.
> I know my BIOS would balk right away at no display and keyboard, but
>I was wondering if anyone had tried such a configuration?
My BIOS doesn't balk, as long as I set up the config switches properly. My
system does have a display adaptor, monitor and keyboard mainly because I
already had them sitting around, but the system will run just fine if I
disconnect them.
Phil
Phil Karn
>Because I own a CP/M box.
>Because I like to see how how much can be done with 64k and 4MHz.
>Because I don't like 80xx boxes.
>Because I feel like it.
>Because this is a hobby and economic justification is irrelevant.
Fine. My code is freely available to any and all hams. It's mostly in C and
should be reasonably easy to port, assuming you can cram what currently
takes 277K on the PC (not counting data space) into 64K (counting data
space). Consider also that most Z-80 C compilers seem to generate object
code that's roughly twice as large as on the 8086.
Have at it!
Phil
Devon E Bowen
Karn) writes:
> Fine. My code is freely available to any and all hams.
Does this sound snotty to anyone else or is it just me? The original post
asked a very simple question. He just wanted to know if anyone had done any
work with TCP on CP/M or whether the original stuff and been maintained to
any degree. And instead of a polite "no, no one is working on that but you
are welcome to if you like" he gets this lecture on how his computer isn't
worth using and he should buy a PC. When he says he likes his computer he
gets another reply telling him if he wants it he should write. Like he was
complaining or something. But he never did complained! In fact, he said:
> I sort of hope there isn't any, then I will have to write some.
Anyone in this hobby that says something like this in this day and age does
not deserve the shit this guy is getting back for it. And he's getting it
from those people pushing the most for a no-code license to get more doers
into ham radio!!! [not meant to imply I am pro-code]
This is no fun anymore.
Devon
Dennis S. Breckenridge
> In article <21...@bellcore.bellcore.com>, ka...@ka9q.bellcore.com (Phil
> Karn) writes:
> > Fine. My code is freely available to any and all hams.
>
> Does this sound snotty to anyone else or is it just me? The original post
> This is no fun anymore.
I have had this argument before with Phil. When you are God everyone bows
to your choices. Must be nice sitting up there :-)
BTW God, she told me she was 16 :-)
--
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Dennis S. Breckenridge (604) 277-7413 den...@nebulus.uucp VE7TCP
EMACS: Eight Megabytes And Constantly Swapping!
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Daniel Wynalda
>In article <21...@bellcore.bellcore.com>, ka...@ka9q.bellcore.com (Phil
>Karn) writes:
>> Fine. My code is freely available to any and all hams.
>
>Does this sound snotty to anyone else or is it just me? The original post
>asked a very simple question. He just wanted to know if anyone had done any
Frankly, I don't understand how someone would DARE CRITICIZE someone who
puts as MUCH TIME and EFFORT into this hobby as does Phil.
In plain and simple terms, Phil DID SAY "If you think it can be done - do it
yourself. That is why he stated his code is available to ALL.". One of
ham-radio's objectives is the promotion of the ADVANCEMENT of radio art.
You would be hard pressed to find another who has put in as much time and
effort as Phil toward this goal.
>any degree. And instead of a polite "no, no one is working on that but you
>are welcome to if you like" he gets this lecture on how his computer isn't
>worth using and he should buy a PC. When he says he likes his computer he
He said "It costs $60 for a PC motherboard." Frankly, people who write
code like Phil's make ALOT more than that per hour. I realize some people
don't, but at some point you CAN'T RETROFIT EVERY COMPUTER.
Don't take this like I favor tossing old computers, just know the limits.
My executable for ka9q is about 700K. There is NO WAY you are going to
get that running on a 64K Z80 CPM machine. If there was, I'd be glad to
run it on my old stuff. (By the way, I have a TRS-80 Model 4, 6 Televideo
800A's, and Televideo 816, and a bunch of other junk laying around if anyone
wants to play with old equipment.).
The 816 is a 16 port Z80 based MPM system with 40MB hard drive and 40MB
tape drive. Interested????? I'll let it go CHEAP.
>Anyone in this hobby that says something like this in this day and age does
>not deserve the shit this guy is getting back for it. And he's getting it
>from those people pushing the most for a no-code license to get more doers
>into ham radio!!! [not meant to imply I am pro-code]
Woe! I won't even bother. Frankly anyone who abuses Phil for being
honest doesn't deserve his own words.
>
>This is no fun anymore.
>
Ahhhh.. Something we agree on. :-)
--
Daniel Wynalda | Telephone: (616) 866-1561 X22 Ham: N8KUD
Wynalda Litho Inc. | dan...@wyn386.mi.org I speak only for myself. Everyone
8221 Graphic Ind Pk. | should be responsible for their own actions.
Rockford, MI 49341 | Bureaucracy - An organized form of anarchy.
Brian Hughes
> From: da...@compnect.UUCP (Dave Ratcliffe)
> Date: 9 Apr 90 21:01:25 GMT
> Organization: John Core at home, Harrisburg,PA
> Message-ID: <5...@compnect.UUCP>
> Newsgroups: comp.os.cpm,rec.ham-radio.packet
> Phil, maybe he likes it! I have a Molecular Mod. 9 in
> my little room with 2
> Seiko 8610's nearby. All operational, all (gasp)
> CP-MP/M or N-Star and all
> multi-user. Nice machines, fun to hack on and just
Dave,
I'm the fellow who bought John Core's Mole 32 - the ugly one with the two 8 inch HD drives - small world isn't it? Any chance you might be interested in writing a BYE5 insert for the Mole?
BTW, you should have received UUCP.LBR from John by now.
--
FidoNet : 1:129/65.1 Insight BBS UUCP/SEAdog/Kitten (412) 487-3701
UUCP : ..pitt!darth!insight!bhh
: ..{psuvax1|decvax|cadre|}!idis!insight!bhh
: b...@insight.fidonet.org
News supported software
From: cs25...@carina.unm.edu (aNk1ez)
Path: carina.unm.edu!cs2591aq
Back aways Techs mentioned multiple Z80 processors....
I wanted to know, how can you keep 2 z80 processors from fighting
on one S100 bus? any ideas?
About the NewComm program, its a small little thing, (under 2 k still) that
a fairly well featured comm program for its size. The only problem is that
you have to hack the code to christs grave and back to get it to work on
your machine because I wasnt think portability when I wrote it, just,
I Need a com program.
Agh
Dent / cs25...@carina.unm.edu
The Crouton Man
>Keywords : none
>From: cs25...@carina.unm.edu (aNk1ez)
>Path: carina.unm.edu!cs2591aq
>
>Back aways Techs mentioned multiple Z80 processors....
>I wanted to know, how can you keep 2 z80 processors from fighting
>on one S100 bus? any ideas?
>
>
funny, but Norstar did this 10 years ago (or more) with there
Horizon, not with 2 Z80's, but with 4... i am not sure how they
got around it, but as i recall, it was thru the wonder of timesharing
the io... it has 4 seperate CPU baords in it, all sharing the io board,
each with 64k of memory for that processor... you might want to look
into how they handled it...
Later.
-=- The Crouton Man -=- pl...@tramp.colorado.edu -=-
Don Maslin
operating under TurboDOS in an IEEE-696 environment.
UUCP: {nosc ucsd crash ncr-sd}!pnet07!donm
ARPA: simasd!pnet07!do...@nosc.mil
INET: do...@pnet07.cts.com
Robert L. Bailey
>Probably the easiest way is with a master and multiple slave processors
>operating under TurboDOS in an IEEE-696 environment.
Indeed! A few years back I used a Sierra Data Sciences S-100 system with
that exact configuration running TurboDos. It was quite a system for its
time! I believe that the way the bus sharing was accomplished was by
having the master processor poll each slave for I/O requests. The only
job the master had to do was to check each slave in turn and if the
slave requested I/O then the master performed the requested function. I'm
sure that there was some sort of time slice algorithm too, because we
never had any problems with one of the slaves 'hogging' the I/O.
Like I said, it was quite a dynamite little system with 1 master/4 slaves.
Each slave had its own terminal port, and did we ever keep that little
sucker busy! The master controlled all I/O to the hard & floppy disks. It
also maintained a print spooler to organize print requests. We even
had an 8748 emulator board & cross compiler for doing software development
for embedded microprocessor systems. When we ran the emulator, there was
some bus contention, and we had to limit the system to a single slave
to avoid crashes while emulating.
Bob Bailey (r...@cs.odu.edu)
Marc Wilson
--
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Marc Wilson
ARPA: ...!crash!mwi...@nosc.mil
...!crash!pnet01!pro-sol!mwi...@nosc.mil
UUCP: [ cbosgd | hp-sdd!hplabs | sdcsvax | nosc ]!crash!mwilson
INET: mwi...@crash.CTS.COM
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~