P112 C/PM 2.2 Hard Disk

[Bill Gunshannon]

Not sure if there are many (any?) P112 users still floating around
but, just in case...

Does anyone have instructions on how to make a C/PM 2.2 installation on
a hard disk on the P112 with the GIDE? Might look at CPM 3.0 as well,
but I would really like a C/PM 2.2 hard disk system to work with.

bill

[a b]

have you looked here yet?

https://661.org/p112/

[Bill Gunshannon]

On 11/22/22 14:43, a b wrote:
> have you looked here yet?
>
> https://661.org/p112/

Yes. And Sourceforge. Saw nothing about putting C/PM 2.2 on a hard
disk.

It's been years since I last played with my P112. I seem to recall
there being a lot more information then than there is now. :-(

bill

[Dennis Boone]

> Does anyone have instructions on how to make a C/PM 2.2 installation on
> a hard disk on the P112 with the GIDE? Might look at CPM 3.0 as well,
> but I would really like a C/PM 2.2 hard disk system to work with.

Seems like Terry used to have stuff on his site which I can no longer
find. Maybe it was just paper shipped with the GIDE. $deity knows
where my such paper might have gone, if so.

De

[Wayne Warthen]

On Tuesday, November 22, 2022 at 2:20:49 PM UTC-8, Dennis Boone wrote:
> Seems like Terry used to have stuff on his site which I can no longer
> find.

Terry has a site at http://stack180.com. You can find his latest P112 work there. It is a BPBIOS implementation for P112, so perhaps not the OS you want, but it works quite well. He has BIOS, floppy, and hard disk (GIDE) images.

-Wayne

[Bill Gunshannon]

I had been there but hadn't found anything. I'll try again.

In the meantime Having had no luck with 2.2 and a hard disk
I tried 3.0. No luck there either. Every time I do anything
with the hard disk (ERADIR, DISKINFO) It hangs the machine
and kills the USB serial port I amusing with Putty for a
console. I have to unplug the USB Serial Dongle and plug it
back in to get the terminal working again. I can't even
imagine what is being sent over the connection to do that.

Really would like to get this to work so I can do some PL/M
stuff.

bill

[Wayne Warthen]

On Thursday, December 1, 2022 at 3:26:22 PM UTC-8, Bill Gunshannon wrote:
> On 11/22/22 20:35, Wayne Warthen wrote:
> > Terry has a site at http://stack180.com. You can find his latest P112 work there. It is a BPBIOS implementation for P112, so perhaps not the OS you want, but it works quite well. He has BIOS, floppy, and hard disk (GIDE) images.
> >
> I had been there but hadn't found anything. I'll try again.

Hmmm... From the left nav, look under "P112 Local Links" and choose "Downloads". You should then get to a page with a table of downloads for the ROM, Floppy, and GIDE Hard Disk images.

Thanks,

Wayne

[Bill Gunshannon]

OK... I had grabbed them but that wasn't what I was expecting so
I guess I just got confused.

In order...

I guess I need to find out how to update the EEPROM as mine is still
at 5.7. That, in itself, may fix some stuff.

The Floppy I figured was just another copy of the Distribution Disk
but maybe not. I'll burn one and see what it does.

And the last one said CF Images and as I don't have a CF port on
my P112 I just passed it by. Now I will have to look at that as
well. I do have some CF/IDE cards floating around somewhere, maybe
that will do the trick.

Gives me something to do today as it is too cold to go outside
for much of anything.

Thank you.

bill

[Craig Ruff]

I recently made floppy disks for another person based on those images,
and verified that the CPM 2.2 floppy boots up fine. I did not try any
hard disk images. My P112 on runs the GIDE ZSDOS/ZCPR3 HDD disk image
normally.

[Bill Gunshannon]

Went thru the stuff there. I made a new disk and decided to upgrade
my systems to 5.8 firmware. One worked find but the other one has the
dreaded AM28F256. I could not get the old version of EEPROM.COM to
update it so I have ordered a replacement Atmel 29C256 EEPROM and then
hope that my (also on its way) new programmer can handle them so I can
upgrade my second P112. Then I will look at the CF file but I really
have no idea what to do with it yet. I assume there is a program for
Windows to write it to a CF card (like RAWRITE does for floppies).
Small steps, but getting closer to having working machines.

Only partly CP/M related, but I am also in the process of getting both
of my TRS-80 Model-1s going and one of them has an LNDoubler in it so
it should be able to read and write 8" floppies as well.

bill

[Wayne Warthen]

On Friday, December 2, 2022 at 5:19:03 PM UTC-8, Bill Gunshannon wrote:
> Then I will look at the CF file but I really
> have no idea what to do with it yet. I assume there is a program for
> Windows to write it to a CF card (like RAWRITE does for floppies).
> Small steps, but getting closer to having working machines.

The CF Card image must be written to a CF Card starting at the first sector. On Windows, I use Win32 Disk Imager (https://sourceforge.net/projects/win32diskimager). Yes, this is essentially the same thing as RAWRITE is for floppies.

Assuming you have a GIDE, you can use one of the little CF-IDE adapters to add a CF Card socket (https://www.ebay.com/itm/111977195791).

-Wayne

[Bill Gunshannon]

On 12/3/22 23:01, Wayne Warthen wrote:
> On Friday, December 2, 2022 at 5:19:03 PM UTC-8, Bill Gunshannon wrote:
>> Then I will look at the CF file but I really
>> have no idea what to do with it yet. I assume there is a program for
>> Windows to write it to a CF card (like RAWRITE does for floppies).
>> Small steps, but getting closer to having working machines.
>
> The CF Card image must be written to a CF Card starting at the first sector. On Windows, I use Win32 Disk Imager (https://sourceforge.net/projects/win32diskimager). Yes, this is essentially the same thing as RAWRITE is for floppies.

I'll go look for it.

>
> Assuming you have a GIDE, you can use one of the little CF-IDE adapters to add a CF Card socket (https://www.ebay.com/itm/111977195791).

I've got some of them so maybe I can give it a try and
then see about moving some of it to real hard drives as
CF's do have a limited lifespan.

bill

[Bill Gunshannon]

On 12/3/22 23:01, Wayne Warthen wrote:

> On Friday, December 2, 2022 at 5:19:03 PM UTC-8, Bill Gunshannon wrote:
>> Then I will look at the CF file but I really
>> have no idea what to do with it yet. I assume there is a program for
>> Windows to write it to a CF card (like RAWRITE does for floppies).
>> Small steps, but getting closer to having working machines.
>

I think I am beginning to see, once again, why my P112's ended
up in a box on shelf.

> The CF Card image must be written to a CF Card starting at the first sector. On Windows, I use Win32 Disk Imager (https://sourceforge.net/projects/win32diskimager). Yes, this is essentially the same thing as RAWRITE is for floppies.

I have done this. Numerous times. Even tried using differnt
size CF cards. Always with the same result: "Unrecognizable
disk format".


bill

[Wayne Warthen]

On Thursday, December 8, 2022 at 7:43:54 AM UTC-8, Bill Gunshannon wrote:
> > The CF Card image must be written to a CF Card starting at the first sector. On Windows, I use Win32 Disk Imager (https://sourceforge.net/projects/win32diskimager). Yes, this is essentially the same thing as RAWRITE is for floppies.
> I have done this. Numerous times. Even tried using differnt
> size CF cards. Always with the same result: "Unrecognizable
> disk format".

Surprising. Are you using the same ROM that is distributed on the stack180.com website?

-Wayne

[Bill Gunshannon]

Yes. I have upgraded both my P112s to 5.8. But if I read it correctly
that actually got me nothing from 5.7. It seems to only address "higher
clock rates and faster CPUs".

I am more concerned that the image does not end in .img or .iso. It
seems to just be a file. DiskImager seems to want .img. After writing
it returns success from a verify.

While I have your attention. I have seen mention of SCSI for the P112.
Any idea where I could learn more about that? I have an abundance of
SCSI disks floating around my place.

bill

[Wayne Warthen]

On Friday, December 9, 2022 at 3:43:23 PM UTC-8, Bill Gunshannon wrote:
> On 12/9/22 18:19, Wayne Warthen wrote:
> > On Thursday, December 8, 2022 at 7:43:54 AM UTC-8, Bill Gunshannon wrote:
> >>> The CF Card image must be written to a CF Card starting at the first sector. On Windows, I use Win32 Disk Imager (https://sourceforge.net/projects/win32diskimager). Yes, this is essentially the same thing as RAWRITE is for floppies.
> >> I have done this. Numerous times. Even tried using differnt
> >> size CF cards. Always with the same result: "Unrecognizable
> >> disk format".
> >
> > Surprising. Are you using the same ROM that is distributed on the stack180.com website?
> Yes. I have upgraded both my P112s to 5.8. But if I read it correctly
> that actually got me nothing from 5.7. It seems to only address "higher
> clock rates and faster CPUs".

OK, no idea. I am running a ROM and disk image that are just slightly modified from the posted one. Give me a day or two and I will try the exact stuff that is posted on my P112 and report back.

> I am more concerned that the image does not end in .img or .iso. It
> seems to just be a file. DiskImager seems to want .img. After writing
> it returns success from a verify.

Yes, the lack of an extension is a little odd, but I have confirmed that the start of the file looks correct. I assume you are extracting it from the .zip before writing it.

> While I have your attention. I have seen mention of SCSI for the P112.
> Any idea where I could learn more about that? I have an abundance of
> SCSI disks floating around my place.

Although I have seen some references to SCSI, I don't know anything about it. I came to the conclusion that the SCSI board was unobtanium at this point.

Thanks,

Wayne

[Bill Gunshannon]

On 12/9/22 20:33, Wayne Warthen wrote:
> On Friday, December 9, 2022 at 3:43:23 PM UTC-8, Bill Gunshannon wrote:
>> On 12/9/22 18:19, Wayne Warthen wrote:
>>> On Thursday, December 8, 2022 at 7:43:54 AM UTC-8, Bill Gunshannon wrote:
>>>>> The CF Card image must be written to a CF Card starting at the first sector. On Windows, I use Win32 Disk Imager (https://sourceforge.net/projects/win32diskimager). Yes, this is essentially the same thing as RAWRITE is for floppies.
>>>> I have done this. Numerous times. Even tried using differnt
>>>> size CF cards. Always with the same result: "Unrecognizable
>>>> disk format".
>>>
>>> Surprising. Are you using the same ROM that is distributed on the stack180.com website?
>> Yes. I have upgraded both my P112s to 5.8. But if I read it correctly
>> that actually got me nothing from 5.7. It seems to only address "higher
>> clock rates and faster CPUs".
>
> OK, no idea. I am running a ROM and disk image that are just slightly modified from the posted one. Give me a day or two and I will try the exact stuff that is posted on my P112 and report back.

It is curious as I assume other people are running this.

>
>> I am more concerned that the image does not end in .img or .iso. It
>> seems to just be a file. DiskImager seems to want .img. After writing
>> it returns success from a verify.
>
> Yes, the lack of an extension is a little odd, but I have confirmed that the start of the file looks correct. I assume you are extracting it from the .zip before writing it.

Even tried unzipping it on a Linux box and then moving it to Windows for
DiskImager. Size comes out the same on both so apparently there was no
unzio caused corruption.

>
>> While I have your attention. I have seen mention of SCSI for the P112.
>> Any idea where I could learn more about that? I have an abundance of
>> SCSI disks floating around my place.
>
> Although I have seen some references to SCSI, I don't know anything about it. I came to the conclusion that the SCSI board was unobtanium at this point.

I assumed that. I saw comments by people who seemed to be using one but
never saw anything about how you get (or build) one.

>
> Thanks,

Actually, thank you.

bill

[Dennis Boone]

> I assumed that. I saw comments by people who seemed to be using one but
> never saw anything about how you get (or build) one.

I think this zip file contains the design:

http://members.iinet.net.au/~daveb/p112/software/scsi2.zip

It'd be a challenge to build, since the "schematic" is an overly
shrunken gif file.

De

[Wayne Warthen]

On Friday, December 9, 2022 at 6:45:57 PM UTC-8, Bill Gunshannon wrote:
> On 12/9/22 20:33, Wayne Warthen wrote:
> > On Friday, December 9, 2022 at 3:43:23 PM UTC-8, Bill Gunshannon wrote:
> >> Yes. I have upgraded both my P112s to 5.8. But if I read it correctly
> >> that actually got me nothing from 5.7. It seems to only address "higher
> >> clock rates and faster CPUs".
> >
> > OK, no idea. I am running a ROM and disk image that are just slightly modified from the posted one. Give me a day or two and I will try the exact stuff that is posted on my P112 and report back.
> It is curious as I assume other people are running this.

Well, I just downloaded the current ROM and CF Card image directly from stack180.com. I updated my P112 with both of them. I seem to be able to start and boot off of the CF Card image with no issues. Below is a log of my system startup and boot from the CF Card. This makes me think there must be a hardware difference of some kind. The P112 itself is a pretty standard thing and there are no differences in the various runs of the board that I am aware of. However, I do believe there were a few variations on the GIDE board. I am running the D-GIDE Rev A1 dated 2015 from TG Consulting.

As you will see below, I am booting with the command "Z 3" to boot directly from the GIDE. I am curious what happens if you use the "L 3" command. This should read the boot tracks and return to the ROM prompt. Even if the CF Card image is bad, this should work. If not, then I would think there is an issue with the GIDE and/or CF Card (as opposed to the image on the CF Card). When I use "L 3", I get a message back like "Boot Track(s) loaded @ 8100H. Execute via G 8060".

For what it is worth, I can also boot to floppy with no issues. If you can write the floppy image to a floppy, you should be able to try that without any reliance on the GIDE hardware.

Thanks,

Wayne

SMC IO chip identified (FDC37C665GT): configuring
ROM v5.8 Dated: 13 Dec 2016 CPU clock: 24.576MHz
RAM available: 1024kB. From 00000 to FFFFF
ROM shadowed into 1st 32kB



Z80 Series ROM-Resident Debugger V1.06: D-X Designs Pty Ltd 1997
Special P112 Version: Interrupts Supported
Type '?' for help

=Z 3

OS loaded, booting...

P112 - B/P 52.00k Bios V1.3 11 Jan 17


ZEX, Version 3.1
A0> ZEX: ldp2d

ZSDOS Time Stamp Loader, Ver 1.1
Copyright (C) 1988 by H.F.Bower / C.W.Cotrill


P2Dos Stamper in User Space, 15 Mar 1993 ...loaded at E968H
Clock is : B/P BIOS Vector 1.0


A0> ZEX: zsconfig +a-

ZSCONFIG V1.0 Copyright (C) 1988 Harold F. Bower/Cameron W. Cotrill

...Configuring ZSDOS Ver 1.1
Stamp Access = Disabled

A0> ZEX: tdd u

ZsDos Clock SET !

Sat Dec 10, 2022 13:57:06

A0> ZEX: ldr sys.rcp,sys.fcp,sys.ndr

ZCPR3 LDR, Version 1.6
Loading SYS.RCP
Loading SYS.FCP
Loading SYS.NDR
A0:BASE> ZEX: if ~ex z3tcap.z3t
A0:BASE> ZEX: goto ERR
A0:BASE> ZEX: fi
A0:BASE> ZEX: ldr z3tcap.z3t

ZCPR3 LDR, Version 1.6
Loading Z3TCAP.Z3T
A0:BASE> ZEX: if input Load the B/P BIOS 1024K Banked Image ?
IF True?
A0:BASE> ZEX: ldsys bpsys

B/P Bios System Loader Vers 1.2 17 Jul 96
Copyright (C) 1991,3 by H.F.Bower & C.W.Cotrill

CCP starts at : C800 (0800H Bytes)
Banked Ccp at : 0900 (0C80H Bytes)
DOS starts at : D000 (0980H Bytes)
Banked Dos at : 1580 (0D00H Bytes)
BIOS starts at : DE00 (0A80H Bytes)
Banked Bios at : 2280 (142AH Bytes)

...installing Banked System


D-X Designs P112 - B/P 57.00k Bios V2.1 11 Jan 17 (Banked) with:

ZCPR3+ Env
Dallas DS-1202 Clock, NO Set
High-Density Floppy (Polled IO)
GIDE Hard Disk Driver
Warm Boot from RAM
RAM Disk (M:)
Full Error Messages


ZEX, Version 3.1
A0-> ZEX: zscfg2 cb +a +c m- >-

ZSCFG2 V2.0b Copyright (C) 1991/2 Harold F. Bower/Cameron W. Cotrill

...Configuring ZSDOS Ver 2.0
Clock Routine = DE4EH
Stamp Access = Enabled
Stamp Create = Enabled
Search Path = Disabled

13:57 - A0-> ZEX: iopinit

Initialize IOP Buffer, Ver 1.0, 31 Aug 92

..IOP Buffer Initialized with Dummy..

13:57 - A0-> ZEX: ldr sys.fcp,sys.ndr,z3tcap.z3t

ZCPR3 LDR, Version 1.6
Loading SYS.FCP
Loading SYS.NDR
Loading Z3TCAP.Z3T
13:57 - A0:BASE-> ZEX: if ~ex m:-ram.000
13:57 - A0:BASE-> ZEX: iniramd pdq
Initialize B/P RAM Drive V1.1 12 Apr 93



...Drive M is Initialized
(P2Dos Stamps Added)
(DateStamper Added)

13:57 - A0:BASE-> ZEX: fi
13:57 - A0:BASE-> ZEX: if ~ex m15:copy.com
13:57 - A0:BASE-> ZEX: copy a13:*.* m15: /e
COPY Version 1.73 (for ZSDOS) 2 Jul 2001
Copying A13:????????.??? to M15:
-> COPY .COM..Ok (Dated) Verify..Ok
-> DIRU .COM..Ok (Dated) Verify..Ok
-> L80 .COM..Ok (Dated) Verify..Ok
-> M80 .COM..Ok (Dated) Verify..Ok
-> UCOPY .COM..Ok (Dated) Verify..Ok
-> ZED .COM..Ok (Dated) Verify..Ok
-> ZMAC .COM..Ok (Dated) Verify..Ok
-> ZML .COM..Ok (Dated) Verify..Ok
-> ZZAP .COM..Ok (Dated) Verify..Ok
0 Errors
13:57 - A0:BASE-> ZEX: fi
13:57 - A0:BASE-> ZEX: setpath


ZPATH v1.1 4 Jul 93 (ZSDOS 2.0)



ZSCFG2 V2.0b Copyright (C) 1991/2 Harold F. Bower/Cameron W. Cotrill

...Configuring ZSDOS Ver 2.0
Search Path = Disabled

13:57 - A0:BASE-> ZEX: setchs p 1 H16 S16

SetCHS v1.01 Primary Slave: 16 x 16

Active Translation Native Mode
Primary Master: 30590 x 16 x 16 7769 x 16 x 63
Primary Slave: Not Present

13:57 - A0:BASE-> ZEX: Done
13:57 - A0:BASE->

[Bill Gunshannon]

On 12/10/22 17:21, Wayne Warthen wrote:
> On Friday, December 9, 2022 at 6:45:57 PM UTC-8, Bill Gunshannon wrote:
>> On 12/9/22 20:33, Wayne Warthen wrote:
>>> On Friday, December 9, 2022 at 3:43:23 PM UTC-8, Bill Gunshannon wrote:
>>>> Yes. I have upgraded both my P112s to 5.8. But if I read it correctly
>>>> that actually got me nothing from 5.7. It seems to only address "higher
>>>> clock rates and faster CPUs".
>>>
>>> OK, no idea. I am running a ROM and disk image that are just slightly modified from the posted one. Give me a day or two and I will try the exact stuff that is posted on my P112 and report back.
>> It is curious as I assume other people are running this.
>
> Well, I just downloaded the current ROM and CF Card image directly from stack180.com. I updated my P112 with both of them. I seem to be able to start and boot off of the CF Card image with no issues. Below is a log of my system startup and boot from the CF Card. This makes me think there must be a hardware difference of some kind. The P112 itself is a pretty standard thing and there are no differences in the various runs of the board that I am aware of. However, I do believe there were a few variations on the GIDE board. I am running the D-GIDE Rev A1 dated 2015 from TG Consulting.

My GIDE is from TG Consulting but dated 2006.

>
> As you will see below, I am booting with the command "Z 3" to boot directly from the GIDE. I am curious what happens if you use the "L 3" command. This should read the boot tracks and return to the ROM prompt. Even if the CF Card image is bad, this should work. If not, then I would think there is an issue with the GIDE and/or CF Card (as opposed to the image on the CF Card). When I use "L 3", I get a message back like "Boot Track(s) loaded @ 8100H. Execute via G 8060".
>

I get the wrong disk format message with Z and it just hangs with L.
I even tried a different type of CF-IDE adapter stolen out of another
piece of equipment.

> For what it is worth, I can also boot to floppy with no issues. If you can write the floppy image to a floppy, you should be able to try that without any reliance on the GIDE hardware.
>

Floppies boot just fine. for me.

Something else I can try. I'll boot from a floppy and see if it
recognizes the presence of the hard disk when I use the CF-IDE.

bill

[Bill Gunshannon]

The saga continues....

I grabbed a copy of the latest CP/M 2.2 floppy and booted it.
FDISK sees the CF-IDE Adapter and reports a correct size. It
also says there is a "B/P BIOS boot record". But it sees no
partition table and the CF still won't boot. I even tried
using a Linux Image Writer tool. But still nothing. One new
curiosity. The image is reported as being 1.5 M too big for
a 64M CF card. Windows writes it anyway but Linux refuses.
I used a 128M CF and was able to write it on both Windows and
Linux but it still won't boot and defies examination with the
tools available to me.

I wonder what would happen if I tried to write it to a real disk?

bill

[Wayne Warthen]

On Sunday, December 11, 2022 at 4:46:47 PM UTC-8, Bill Gunshannon wrote:
> I grabbed a copy of the latest CP/M 2.2 floppy and booted it.

Where are you getting the CP/M 2.2 floppy image? I want to try it myself.
The floppy image I use is the one posted on stack180.com which is not
CP/M 2.2, it is BPBIOS.

> FDISK sees the CF-IDE Adapter and reports a correct size. It
> also says there is a "B/P BIOS boot record". But it sees no
> partition table and the CF still won't boot.

Hmmm... a BPBIOS hard disk has no partition table and BPBIOS
has no FDISK program. Did this FDISK come on the CP/M 2.2
floppy? The CF Card image from stack180.com would
definitely not have a partition table, which is normal.
It is not supposed to have one. I am a bit unclear whether
you have tried the floppy image from stack180.com or not.
If not, I suggest you try that one.

> I even tried
> using a Linux Image Writer tool. But still nothing. One new
> curiosity. The image is reported as being 1.5 M too big for
> a 64M CF card. Windows writes it anyway but Linux refuses.
> I used a 128M CF and was able to write it on both Windows and
> Linux but it still won't boot and defies examination with the
> tools available to me.

CF Cards that are labeled 64MB are typically sized using the definition
of 1M = 1,000,000 bytes instead of 1,024 * 1024 bytes. So, the image
may indeed be too big for the CF Card. Although I would expect it to
fail both on Windows and Linux.

> I wonder what would happen if I tried to write it to a real disk?

Should work.

-Wayne

[Wayne Warthen]

On Sunday, December 11, 2022 at 6:22:08 PM UTC-8, Wayne Warthen wrote:
> On Sunday, December 11, 2022 at 4:46:47 PM UTC-8, Bill Gunshannon wrote:
> > I grabbed a copy of the latest CP/M 2.2 floppy and booted it.
> Where are you getting the CP/M 2.2 floppy image? I want to try it myself.
> The floppy image I use is the one posted on stack180.com which is not
> CP/M 2.2, it is BPBIOS.

OK, I think I found the CP/M 2.2 disk. It does indeed have an FDISK program on it.
This would imply that this implementation of CP/M 2.2 is enhanced to understand
hard disk partitions. When I run FDISK, like you, it does not see any partition on
my CF Card. So, I don't think that means much except that the CF Card is being
accessed. I would still encourage you to try the stack180.com floppy image.

-Wayne

[Dennis Boone]

> Does anyone have instructions on how to make a C/PM 2.2 installation on
> a hard disk on the P112 with the GIDE? Might look at CPM 3.0 as well,
> but I would really like a C/PM 2.2 hard disk system to work with.

Bill,

Have you run BPCNFG and IDEINIT on this CF card? Some notes here
that might be useful:

https://sites.google.com/site/tingox/p112-gide

De

[Bill Gunshannon]

Haven't seen either of those commands. Which disk should I be
looking on?

Why would I need to do any prep on the CF card when I am copying
a complete image onto it?

Things just get more confusing every day.

bill

[Bill Gunshannon]

On 12/11/22 21:22, Wayne Warthen wrote:
> On Sunday, December 11, 2022 at 4:46:47 PM UTC-8, Bill Gunshannon wrote:
>> I grabbed a copy of the latest CP/M 2.2 floppy and booted it.
>
> Where are you getting the CP/M 2.2 floppy image? I want to try it myself.
> The floppy image I use is the one posted on stack180.com which is not
> CP/M 2.2, it is BPBIOS.

I got CP/M 2.2 (and 3.0) from the link to old P112 downloads.
I think the newest thing I have seen for the P112 is dated 2017.

If you mean the floppy image on the same page as the CF image, I have
it and it's DOS+. It has no hard disk utilities that I can see.
Mostly source code.

>
>> FDISK sees the CF-IDE Adapter and reports a correct size. It
>> also says there is a "B/P BIOS boot record". But it sees no
>> partition table and the CF still won't boot.
>
> Hmmm... a BPBIOS hard disk has no partition table and BPBIOS
> has no FDISK program. Did this FDISK come on the CP/M 2.2
> floppy?

Yes, and other places, too.

> The CF Card image from stack180.com would
> definitely not have a partition table, which is normal.
> It is not supposed to have one.

More confusion. The CF image notes say there are 5 partitions.
But no partition table?

> I am a bit unclear whether
> you have tried the floppy image from stack180.com or not.
> If not, I suggest you try that one.

See above. The floppy I got is DOS+ and I see no hard disk
utilities on it at all. Mostly source code for stuff. Including
some Pascal for a non-specified Pascal compiler. :-) I am
guessing it's Turbo.

>
>> I even tried
>> using a Linux Image Writer tool. But still nothing. One new
>> curiosity. The image is reported as being 1.5 M too big for
>> a 64M CF card. Windows writes it anyway but Linux refuses.
>> I used a 128M CF and was able to write it on both Windows and
>> Linux but it still won't boot and defies examination with the
>> tools available to me.
>
> CF Cards that are labeled 64MB are typically sized using the definition
> of 1M = 1,000,000 bytes instead of 1,024 * 1024 bytes. So, the image
> may indeed be too big for the CF Card. Although I would expect it to
> fail both on Windows and Linux.

Windows complains but still lets you write it. I tried it figuring the
only thing that would be bad was the last partition. Boot code should
have been alright.

>
>> I wonder what would happen if I tried to write it to a real disk?
>
> Should work.

Nope. I tried using a USB disk case and a couple of different
disks but the Linux Image Writer couldn't even accurately identify
the disk so any attempt to write fails with a really obscure error
message about quantum something or other. None of the machines I
am working with have real IDE connectors so it's a no go.

May end out going back to my TRS-80's. They are a lot easier to work
with. :-)

bill

[Bill Gunshannon]

If we are talking about the floppy image on the same page as the CF
image and new ROM image, what do I do with it when I have it? Mine
is DOS+ and I see no hard disk utilities on it anywhere.

And, just out of curiosity, is this DOS+ in any way related to the
versions of DOS+ that used to tun on the TRS-80's? That was one of
my favorite micro computer DOSes back in the day.

bill

[Wayne Warthen]

On Monday, December 12, 2022 at 6:28:49 AM UTC-8, Bill Gunshannon wrote:

> If we are talking about the floppy image on the same page as the CF
> image and new ROM image, what do I do with it when I have it? Mine
> is DOS+ and I see no hard disk utilities on it anywhere.

The floppy disk image on stack180.com is not DOS+, it is BPBIOS which is
a derivative of the ZCPR series of CP/M compatible OSes. The hard disk
utilities are in user area 15.

Just to make sure we are talking about the same floppy disk image, please
confirm that when you boot from it, the first line you see is as follows:

P112 - B/P 52.00k Bios V1.3 28 Mar 17

Is this what you see?

If you are indeed using the same floppy image as me, then you should
find a program called HDIAG in user area 15. This will let you exercise
your IDE-based CF Card.

Then you can use BPCNFG. Option 5 will show you the logical
drive mappings. Just see which drive letters are mapped to the
hard disk (CF Card). Those drive letters should allow you to
get a directory listing from the CF Card file systems.

> And, just out of curiosity, is this DOS+ in any way related to the
> versions of DOS+ that used to tun on the TRS-80's? That was one of
> my favorite micro computer DOSes back in the day.

It is not DOS+ and it is not related to DOS+ in any way that I am aware of.

Thanks,

Wayne

[Bill Gunshannon]

On 12/12/22 13:57, Wayne Warthen wrote:
> On Monday, December 12, 2022 at 6:28:49 AM UTC-8, Bill Gunshannon wrote:
>
>> If we are talking about the floppy image on the same page as the CF
>> image and new ROM image, what do I do with it when I have it? Mine
>> is DOS+ and I see no hard disk utilities on it anywhere.
>
> The floppy disk image on stack180.com is not DOS+, it is BPBIOS which is
> a derivative of the ZCPR series of CP/M compatible OSes. The hard disk
> utilities are in user area 15.

Somehow I think we are looking at a different page and a different
floppy image.

>
> Just to make sure we are talking about the same floppy disk image, please
> confirm that when you boot from it, the first line you see is as follows:
>
> P112 - B/P 52.00k Bios V1.3 28 Mar 17

Nope.
CCP+ Vder, 2.2

Made from: P112 Boot Floppy 01-30-17.zip
Which gives: P112 Boot Floppy 01-30-17.img

Taken from: http://stack180.com/P112%20Downloads.htm

>
> Is this what you see?
>
> If you are indeed using the same floppy image as me, then you should
> find a program called HDIAG in user area 15. This will let you exercise
> your IDE-based CF Card.
>
> Then you can use BPCNFG. Option 5 will show you the logical
> drive mappings. Just see which drive letters are mapped to the
> hard disk (CF Card). Those drive letters should allow you to
> get a directory listing from the CF Card file systems.

Is this and/or ZCPR the only OSes that still run on the P112?
I hope not as that is not what I was looking for. Maybe I
waited to long for the P112 to stabilize and missed the boat
entirely. :-(

And it still leaves me wondering why the pre-built CF image
doesn't boot. Am I also running the wrong ROM image on my
P112? It came from the same web page at stack180.

>
>> And, just out of curiosity, is this DOS+ in any way related to the
>> versions of DOS+ that used to tun on the TRS-80's? That was one of
>> my favorite micro computer DOSes back in the day.
>
> It is not DOS+ and it is not related to DOS+ in any way that I am aware of.

Sorry, this was a second question. I wondered if there was any
relationship between the DOS+ that was available for the P112
and the DOSPLUS that ran on the TRS80 Model 1m Model3 and Model4.

bill

[Wayne Warthen]

On Monday, December 12, 2022 at 11:25:55 AM UTC-8, Bill Gunshannon wrote:
> On 12/12/22 13:57, Wayne Warthen wrote:
> > On Monday, December 12, 2022 at 6:28:49 AM UTC-8, Bill Gunshannon wrote:
> >
> > The floppy disk image on stack180.com is not DOS+, it is BPBIOS which is
> > a derivative of the ZCPR series of CP/M compatible OSes. The hard disk
> > utilities are in user area 15.
> Somehow I think we are looking at a different page and a different
> floppy image.
> >
> > Just to make sure we are talking about the same floppy disk image, please
> > confirm that when you boot from it, the first line you see is as follows:
> >
> > P112 - B/P 52.00k Bios V1.3 28 Mar 17
> Nope.
> CCP+ Vder, 2.2
>
> Made from: P112 Boot Floppy 01-30-17.zip
> Which gives: P112 Boot Floppy 01-30-17.img
>
> Taken from: http://stack180.com/P112%20Downloads.htm

OK, well I think we have found the problem. You are somehow booting a different
floppy than I am. I downloaded "P112 Boot Floppy 01-30-17.zip" again and looked
at the extracted .img file with a hex editor. There is no occurrence of the string
"CCP+" in it anywhere. I am really perplexed by this. It sounds like your
floppy still has a DOSPLUS image on it.

As a way to see if we actually do have different image files or not, I am listing
the first 16 bytes (in hex) of my image. Can you confirm yours is the same?

76 21 80 B3 C9 C3 00 CA 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00

It is hard to imagine we are downloading different files from the same site.
This may be a long shot, but is there any possibility that the tool you are
using to write the image to the floppy is not actually working? Is the floppy
write protected? Could you use a different tool to read and verify the
first few bytes of the floppy?

> Is this and/or ZCPR the only OSes that still run on the P112?
> I hope not as that is not what I was looking for. Maybe I
> waited to long for the P112 to stabilize and missed the boat
> entirely. :-(

It is the most recent work with respect to P112 OSes, but
I am not aware of any issues with the other OSes ported to it.
I sent you down this path because it is a known working set
of stuff and would (hopefully) allow you to determine conclusively
whether your GIDE is fully functional.

> And it still leaves me wondering why the pre-built CF image
> doesn't boot. Am I also running the wrong ROM image on my
> P112? It came from the same web page at stack180.

I agree it is a mystery why you are unable to boot the pre-built
CF image.

If your ROM boots and displays version 5.8 then you have the
ROM image from the stack180.com site which is definitely the
right ROM to boot the floppy and CF images from that site.
I guess I can't say if this ROM has in some way broken support
for the other OSes.

> Sorry, this was a second question. I wondered if there was any
> relationship between the DOS+ that was available for the P112
> and the DOSPLUS that ran on the TRS80 Model 1m Model3 and Model4.

Ah, sorry. I don't have a clue about that. Sorry.

-Wayne

[Dennis Boone]

> Haven't seen either of those commands. Which disk should I be
> looking on?

I think they should be on the BPBIOS boot floppy.

> Why would I need to do any prep on the CF card when I am copying
> a complete image onto it?

Well, I was considering the path of setting up the CF card by hand,
rather than just copying an image onto it.

De

[Bill Gunshannon]

On 12/12/22 20:35, Wayne Warthen wrote:
> On Monday, December 12, 2022 at 11:25:55 AM UTC-8, Bill Gunshannon wrote:
>> On 12/12/22 13:57, Wayne Warthen wrote:
>>> On Monday, December 12, 2022 at 6:28:49 AM UTC-8, Bill Gunshannon wrote:
>>>
>>> The floppy disk image on stack180.com is not DOS+, it is BPBIOS which is
>>> a derivative of the ZCPR series of CP/M compatible OSes. The hard disk
>>> utilities are in user area 15.
>> Somehow I think we are looking at a different page and a different
>> floppy image.
>>>
>>> Just to make sure we are talking about the same floppy disk image, please
>>> confirm that when you boot from it, the first line you see is as follows:
>>>
>>> P112 - B/P 52.00k Bios V1.3 28 Mar 17
>> Nope.
>> CCP+ Vder, 2.2
>>
>> Made from: P112 Boot Floppy 01-30-17.zip
>> Which gives: P112 Boot Floppy 01-30-17.img
>>
>> Taken from: http://stack180.com/P112%20Downloads.htm
>
> OK, well I think we have found the problem. You are somehow booting a different
> floppy than I am. I downloaded "P112 Boot Floppy 01-30-17.zip" again and looked
> at the extracted .img file with a hex editor. There is no occurrence of the string
> "CCP+" in it anywhere. I am really perplexed by this. It sounds like your
> floppy still has a DOSPLUS image on it.

Still from what? I degaussed and MSDOS formatted the disk before using
RAWRITE to put the image on it. Think how perplexed I am!!

>
> As a way to see if we actually do have different image files or not, I am listing
> the first 16 bytes (in hex) of my image. Can you confirm yours is the same?
>
> 76 21 80 B3 C9 C3 00 CA 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00

Using OD -x on Linux:

0000000 2176 b380 c3c9 ca00 0000 0000 0000 0000

>
> It is hard to imagine we are downloading different files from the same site.
> This may be a long shot, but is there any possibility that the tool you are
> using to write the image to the floppy is not actually working? Is the floppy
> write protected? Could you use a different tool to read and verify the
> first few bytes of the floppy?

As I said, I am using RAWRITE and the disk is completely blank
before loading the .img file.

>
>> Is this and/or ZCPR the only OSes that still run on the P112?
>> I hope not as that is not what I was looking for. Maybe I
>> waited to long for the P112 to stabilize and missed the boat
>> entirely. :-(
>
> It is the most recent work with respect to P112 OSes, but
> I am not aware of any issues with the other OSes ported to it.
> I sent you down this path because it is a known working set
> of stuff and would (hopefully) allow you to determine conclusively
> whether your GIDE is fully functional.

I am sure the GIDE is functional. I had a hard disk with RSX180
on it. I don't any more because the disk died. Gut it did work
many moons ago before I put it all away. I guess the other possibility
is that it is an old version and lacks something that came about later.

>
>> And it still leaves me wondering why the pre-built CF image
>> doesn't boot. Am I also running the wrong ROM image on my
>> P112? It came from the same web page at stack180.
>
> I agree it is a mystery why you are unable to boot the pre-built
> CF image.
>
> If your ROM boots and displays version 5.8 then you have the
> ROM image from the stack180.com site which is definitely the
> right ROM to boot the floppy and CF images from that site.
> I guess I can't say if this ROM has in some way broken support
> for the other OSes.

I don't think the ROM broke it. I had all the same behavior when
I was still running 5.7. And the web page says the only change
just affects faster CPU's.

>
>> Sorry, this was a second question. I wondered if there was any
>> relationship between the DOS+ that was available for the P112
>> and the DOSPLUS that ran on the TRS80 Model 1m Model3 and Model4.
>
> Ah, sorry. I don't have a clue about that. Sorry.

I guess I really need to try and search for the magic B/P 52.00k
Bios V1.3 28 Mar 17 floppy disk img. :-)

bill

[Bill Gunshannon]

On 12/12/22 20:35, Wayne Warthen wrote:
> On Monday, December 12, 2022 at 11:25:55 AM UTC-8, Bill Gunshannon wrote:
>> On 12/12/22 13:57, Wayne Warthen wrote:
>>> On Monday, December 12, 2022 at 6:28:49 AM UTC-8, Bill Gunshannon wrote:
>>>
>>> The floppy disk image on stack180.com is not DOS+, it is BPBIOS which is
>>> a derivative of the ZCPR series of CP/M compatible OSes. The hard disk
>>> utilities are in user area 15.
>> Somehow I think we are looking at a different page and a different
>> floppy image.
>>>
>>> Just to make sure we are talking about the same floppy disk image, please
>>> confirm that when you boot from it, the first line you see is as follows:
>>>
>>> P112 - B/P 52.00k Bios V1.3 28 Mar 17
>> Nope.
>> CCP+ Vder, 2.2
>>
>> Made from: P112 Boot Floppy 01-30-17.zip
>> Which gives: P112 Boot Floppy 01-30-17.img
>>
>> Taken from: http://stack180.com/P112%20Downloads.htm
>

Somehow I don't think we are working from the same image.

How could an image dated 01-30-17 contain a version of the DOS
dated 28 Mar 17?

Any idea where you got your copy of the Boot Floppy?

bill

[Bill Gunshannon]

Well, I don't really know how but I hae it running.
I found an image called zs113005.img on a site
called 661.org and loaded it
onto a floppy. It booted giving a message about
not liking my NVRAM settings. I restarted the P112
and hit escape. Typed in values I thought were
reasonable and rebooted. It worked.

So, I thought I would try the CF again. I took the
128MB CF and put it in. "OS Loaded Booting" and there
it hung. So I took the 64 MB which it said was too
small and tried that. And it booted. ANd, I was able
to make a real boot floppy, just in case this all
falls apart.

I guess that's a start. Still need to see what I need
I need to do to get other OSes running but at least it's
better than I was yesterday.

bill

[Wayne Warthen]

On Tuesday, December 13, 2022 at 12:27:07 PM UTC-8, Bill Gunshannon wrote:
> Well, I don't really know how but I hae it running.
> I found an image called zs113005.img on a site
> called 661.org and loaded it
> onto a floppy. It booted giving a message about
> not liking my NVRAM settings. I restarted the P112
> and hit escape. Typed in values I thought were
> reasonable and rebooted. It worked.

I am mystified about the floppy image. My floppy image came from
stack180.com. Can't imagine why we would be getting
different results. However, I am glad to hear you found
an image that worked for you.

> So, I thought I would try the CF again. I took the
> 128MB CF and put it in. "OS Loaded Booting" and there
> it hung. So I took the 64 MB which it said was too
> small and tried that. And it booted. ANd, I was able
> to make a real boot floppy, just in case this all
> falls apart.

Interesting. I have seen situations where some CF Cards do
not play well with the GIDE. I suppose that is what happened
with your 128MB card.

> I guess that's a start. Still need to see what I need
> I need to do to get other OSes running but at least it's
> better than I was yesterday.

Yup, significant progress. I think the CF Card situation makes
some sense to me (128MB card was simply not happy in the
GIDE). I can't make any sense of the floppy image situation.
Oh well.

-Wayne

[Bill Gunshannon]

For those who remember this thread...

I have determined that there is probably no way to set up
a hard disk system using CP/M 2.2. However, there should
be for CP/M 3.0. And it is probably close enough to meet
my needs.

On another track....

I got sidetracked but good news came out of it. I don't
know if anyone had already tried this but I have successfully
booted CP/M 2.2 - CP/M 3.0 - MPM-II - RSX180 and UZI on the
P112 from a GOTEK USB Floppy Emulator using the hXc2001
firmware. I plan to try the FlashFloppy firmware as well,
but at only about $10 the hXc2001 firmware is OK.

If this continues to show promise I think very shortly all
of my vintage systems will be giving up their mechanical
floppies in favor of GOTEKs.

bill