CP/M or ?
Bruce Wilson
AT&/T Partner II phone system with Partner Mail. On opening up the Partner
Mail box, I found a 286 motherboard with 80 meg IDE hard drive (immediately
enlightening me with respect to the unlabeled DB and other connectors I'd seen
on the side), no video. I set the MB jumper to VGA, dropped in a VGA card,
connected a monitor, and fired it up. The last thing I saw was a reference to
CCPM.SYS before the display went psychedelic, so I plugged in a 3.5" HD floppy
drive and booted with DR DOS 5.0, which I happened to have on hand, only to
have it not find the hard drive. Its Fdisk says the drive's a CP/M drive.
My interest in getting into the thing's to be able to back up the software and
maybe even transfer it from the old Conner 80 meg drive to something newer and
larger, so ...
What's the OS? Is it CP/M, as DR DOS' Fdisk suggests, or something else? Is
there a way to boot this thing from a floppy, after which I may be able to get
the software off the old hard drive?
Bruce Wilson
anon...@bogus_address.con
Since the machine is a 286, the operating system is most likely
Concurrent CP/M-86. CCP/M-86 is a real-mode, multi-tasking
operating system for i86-based computers from the now-defunct
Digital Research. The O.S. is not DOS-compatible, nor is its
hard disk format compatible with DOS.
Sounds as if the machine is able and willing to boot. Your
video problems can probably be solved fairly easily. I'd try
cleaning the contacts on the original video card. Now pull out
that VGA card, reset the motherboard video switch, and schlep
the original video card back in. If the problem is a dead
monitor, borrow a compatible monitor and use THAT. (Herc? CGA?)
Once you're up and running, you can format floppy disks using
the DKSMAINT.CMD program which is undoubtedly in User Area 0 of
the hard disk. Format a bunch of floppies, then use PIP.CMD to
copy the files from the hard disk to floppy disks as back-up.
If you aren't familiar with CP/M-86 generally, you need to know
a few things:
1. Concurrent CP/M-86 doesn't have DOS-style 'sub-directories'
on the hard disk, but it does have 16 'User Areas' -- num-
bered 0 to 15 -- which serve much the same purpose as DOS
sub-directories. The User Area you're currently in (0 when
you first boot up) is displayed on the status line at the
bottom of the screen. To change the user area, type USER x
and press the ENTER key. 'x' represents the number of the
User Area where you want to go. So you could type USER 7,
or USER 15, or USER 1, etc. You get the idea.
2. If the machine has only 1 floppy drive, the hard disk
designation letter might not be 'C.' It might be 'B.'
But the command prompt will tell you, once the machine
has booted.
3. The command 'DIR' will display on the screen the names of
all the files in the current User Area...just as with DOS.
(Remember, DOS is essentially a rip-off of CP/M.)
4. The syntax for copying files using PIP is backwards from
DOS. The syntax is PIP [destination]=[source]. Don't
forget the 'equal' sign. So PIP A:=C:*.* would copy all
the files in the current user area of Drive C: to the
disk in Drive A.
Once you have all the hard disk files copied to floppy disks
(and don't forget to check every User Area for files), then
you can install DOS on the hard disk, if you so desire.
1. Under CCP/M-86, invoke DSKMAINT.CMD...and use it to delete
the CCP/M-86 partition ('volume'). This will cause all
the CCP/M-86 data on the hard disk to be lost, so don't
do it until you've backed up =all= the files on the hard
disk to floppy disks.
2. Boot DOS from a floppy disk, use FDISK to create a DOS
partition, and then use the DOS command 'FORMAT C: /U'
to format the hard disk for use under DOS. This DOS
high-level format is all that's necessary. Do not, under
any circumstances, attempt to do a 'low-level' format
on that old Conner drive; you'll ruin it permanently.
To access the data from the CCP/M-86 floppy disks under DOS,
use your favorite cross-platform file transfer utility. The
shareware program 22DISK is excellent for this purpose.
Have fun! :)
Bill Dawson
<anonymous@bogus_address.con> wrote in message
news:t11om5q...@corp.supernews.com...
I think what you may have overlooked when giving the directions to
converting this system to MS-DOS is:
>My interest in getting
>into the thing's to be able to back up the software and maybe even
>transfer it from the old Conner 80 meg drive to something newer and
>larger, so ...
I read this to mean that he wants to keep the CCPM, only put it on something
larger. If this is his first exposure to CCPM, he may not realize that 80Mb
_is_ large. If Bruce does not create a bootable diskette for CCPM, he's
going to be dead in the water when he attempts to restore the files onto
something larger.
Convert this system to DOS??? What heresy.
anon...@bogus_address.con
On 2000-11-14 whda...@mlynk.com said:
>I think what you may have overlooked when giving the directions to
>converting this system to MS-DOS is:
>
> >My interest in getting
> >into the thing's to be able to back up the software and maybe even
> >transfer it from the old Conner 80 meg drive to something newer and
> >larger, so ...
>
>I read this to mean that he wants to keep the CCPM, only put it on
>something larger. If this is his first exposure to CCPM, he may
>not realize that 80Mb _is_ large.
You're correct, of course. If every application that was
ever written for the original Concurrent CP/M-86 were to be
copied to that 80 meg hard disk, it'd still be 99 per cent
empty. :)
>If Bruce does not create a
>bootable diskette for CCPM, he's going to be dead in the water when
>he attempts to restore the files onto something larger.
Fortunately, the i86 permutations of CP/M do not require
'reserved system tracks' on floppy disks, as the i80 versions
did. Simply copying the CCPM.SYS file to a floppy disk makes
the disk bootable.
>Convert this system to DOS??? What heresy.
Yeah, I suppose...but what's a mother to do? <g>
Bruce Wilson
Traffic in this group through AOL seems to be spotty at best. The above is ALL
I've seen here since posting the original message; and I've not even seen it.
IF the OS is CP/M, Concurrent DOS, or something else entirely, I'd be more than
happy to leave it at that IF I could boot the thing from a floppy, copy/backup
the software from the hard drive and then be able to copy/restore it to another
bootable hard drive should the need arise (which would presumably necessarily
include the ability to appropriately format the hard drive). The reference to
CCPM.SYS I saw before the VGA display went psychedelic suggests strongly the OS
may be Concurrent DOS rather than CP/M. I found a CGA monitor that may work
and hope to find a CGA card, in the hope of being able to see what happens
after the VGA goes psychedelic and get a better idea of what the OS may be.
Bruce Wilson
rip...@kcbbs.gen.nz
> >
> >
> >I read this to mean that he wants to keep the CCPM, only put it
on
> >something larger. If this is his first exposure to CCPM, he may
> >not realize that 80Mb _is_ large.
Concurrent-CCP/M and its decendants (CDOS, DR-Multiuser-DOS, etc) are
still embodied in ongoing developments. IMS Real/32 (see
www.imsltd.com) is a VAR (Value Added Reseller) version of DR-MDOS with
many enhancements and additions and it still runs CCP/M-86 programs.
It also runs DOS, DPMI-DOS, Windows 3.11, and acts as a file server and
application server to Windows 9x and can run a web server.
Recent enhancements include adding Windows VFAT to cater for partitions
more than 2 Gbytes.
>
> You're correct, of course. If every application that was
> ever written for the original Concurrent CP/M-86 were to be
> copied to that 80 meg hard disk, it'd still be 99 per cent
> empty. :)
Actually CCP/M-86 and CDOS used to be quite popular as multiuser
business systems and there were dozens of accounting and financial
applications, as well as the usual run of desktop and office
applications. It could even run Lotus. Most sites that used CDOS just
presented the applications screens at the user and they never needed to
even know what the OS was because they just had 'thin client'
terminals. It was only when 'fat clients' or stand alone machines came
in the users needed to know or care what an OS was.
Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
Before you buy.
Kelli Halliburton
is ALL
> I've seen here since posting the original message; and I've not even seen
it.
I don't trust AOL's newsfeed. I hope you eventually see this, though.
> IF the OS is CP/M, Concurrent DOS, or something else entirely, I'd be more
than
> happy to leave it at that IF I could boot the thing from a floppy,
copy/backup
> the software from the hard drive and then be able to copy/restore it to
another
> bootable hard drive should the need arise (which would presumably
necessarily
> include the ability to appropriately format the hard drive). The
reference to
> CCPM.SYS I saw before the VGA display went psychedelic suggests strongly
the OS
> may be Concurrent DOS rather than CP/M. I found a CGA monitor that may
work
> and hope to find a CGA card, in the hope of being able to see what happens
> after the VGA goes psychedelic and get a better idea of what the OS may
be.
The company that made Concurrent DOS also made an earlier Concurrent version
of CP/M. In the same way that Concurrent DOS is abbreviated CDOS, Concurrent
CP/M is abbreviated CCPM. Thus, CCPM.SYS is a pretty strong indicator that
you have Concurrent CP/M, *not* Concurrent DOS, installed on your machine.
Once you get a screen that works, you might find that the system boots up
fully into CP/M (the Concurrent multiuser version of it, that is). You can
try formatting disks in the floppy drive and copying the system utilities
onto them. Primers on using CP/M commands have been featured in this thread,
and further primers about CP/M command usage and the files needed to create
a system disk are available on the net at [URL removed].
Once you have a complete CCPM system floppy, including the BIOS and the CCP,
you have a bootable floppy. You can then proceed to copy all of the
non-system files to floppies as backup.
An 80MB hard disk for CP/M, is pretty large, and for CCPM it's huge. This is
because CCPM was a somewhat non-standard version of CP/M that required
programs to be ported to allow for the features that CCPM had over CP/M
(specifically, multiuser features). I assume that the only reason you'd have
for wanting to replace it would be the failure of the original drive (a
possibility, given its age). If you're lucky, the existing hard drive has
the necessary hard disk tools on it, and you can put them on one of the
floppies you create. If you can fit it on the system floppy, then you can
boot the computer and fdisk the new hard drive from the same floppy.
Try to use a (by today's standards) small hard drive; CCPM only supports
'user areas,' up to 16, and has no provision for subdirectories. File
management can become an odious task if you have too much space and fill it
with too many files. Remember that there is no GUI for CP/M -- it's all
text-based. This makes for small programs. Also remember that many CP/M and
CCPM programs were originally written for the CP/M-80 environment, meaning a
Z-80 (or even 8080) processor with only 64k of address space.