Help with copying disks on CP/M
David Krainess
and the manufacturer is charging $200 for a 3.5" DD disk with the CP/M
operating system and app on it. The disks go bad about every month (the
drive is constantly in use) and I keep having to fork out $200 each time.
The program disk autoboots to a custom app. I can sometimes get to an A>
prompt if I'm lucky when I remove the disk while the program is running
(there is no 'prompt escape' routine in the program that I can find).
There is no hard drive and I don't know CP/M at all.
Here is my question.
How can I copy disks from the A> prompt?
BTW: I have no idea what the disk format is, or what version the system is.
The press manufacturer keeps all information secret and there are no
markings on any of the PC boards. I only know it's CP/M because when there
is an error it says CP/M. I have a PC program called mdisk which errors
out on analysing the 3.5" floppy used by the machine.
Any help would be appreciated.
TIA
anon...@bogus_address.con
On 2000-05-09 davidk...@yahoo.com(DavidKrainess) said:
Try removing the floppy disk while the program's running to
get to the 'A>' prompt, and then re-insert the disk in the
drive. At the 'A>' prompt, type DIR and then press the ENTER
(or RETURN) key. If you're lucky, this might give you an
on-screen directory of all the filenames on the disk.
Look for a file named something like FORMAT.xxx, DSKMAINT.xxx
or anything else that might appear to be disk-related. It's
a long shot, and I doubt that the disk's manufacturer would
have included such a utility on the disk.
One key to unlocking your problem will be to determine what
=processor chip= your system contains. Open up the case and
take a look. If it's an 8080 or Z80 (or equivalent), then
we'll know we're dealing with CP/M-80. If the chip is an
8086/8088 or higher, then we'll know we're dealing with CP/M-86.
Next, you'll need some disk tools. Go to
and download the programs ANADISK and 22DISK. These are DOS-
based programs that will run on an IBM-compatible PC.
Install ANADISK on a PC, stick your CP/M disk in the PC's 3.5-
inch drive, and run ANADISK. Make sure you run it under =DOS;=
not Win-Doze.
Tell ANADISK to 'SCAN' the drive letter in which you inserted the
CP/M disk. ANADISK should be able to identify the CP/M disk's
number of sectors per track.
You can also use ANADISK to examine the contents of each disk
sector. Look through the first few sectors of the disk, to see
if there's any readable text that might identify which particular
permutation of CP/M is being used (CP/M, unlike DOS, is not uni-
versal; it is customized for the particular hardware on which it
is running. Look for something like 'CP/M 2.2 for the Kaypro 4,'
'CP/M-86 for the IBM PC, Version 1.1,' or some other such positive
identification).
Since your CP/M system is likely a proprietary, 'vertical-market'
lash-up, it's possible that it might be totally non-standard.
Then again, maybe not.
If the particular 'flavor' of CP/M can be identified from exam-
ining the disk's sectors, you might be able to use the 22DISK
program to at least copy all the files from the 3.5-inch CP/M
disk to your PC's hard disk...which would be a start.
Let us know what you find. That will determine what you must
do next. Good luck! :)
B'ichela
<davidk...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>We have a press where I work that has some sort of CP/M hardware/software
>and the manufacturer is charging $200 for a 3.5" DD disk with the CP/M
>operating system and app on it. The disks go bad about every month (the
>drive is constantly in use) and I keep having to fork out $200 each time.
>The program disk autoboots to a custom app. I can sometimes get to an A>
>prompt if I'm lucky when I remove the disk while the program is running
>(there is no 'prompt escape' routine in the program that I can find).
>There is no hard drive and I don't know CP/M at all.
manufactuer of this press? what is the model number of this thing?
Since you (me too, really) don't know the details of CP/M disk
layouts. the following may not help too much
I have never heard of mdisk. but I Know anadisk ver 2.07 from
sydex will try to figure out at least the number of tracks/sectors and
sector size of the disk. Anadisk is Shareware and you can find it
almost anywhere. Try http://www.cdrom.com/simtelnet The program is
for MSDOS/DRDOS. I don't think it will work on 95/98 or 2000 of
windows.
With at least that info you can try to make a 22 Disk ver
1.40 defination file to define the disks layout (this is also
available in the shareware program. the registered package MAY already
have your systems disk format defined).
With 22 Disk you can READ/WRite and Format these disks. I use
the shareware 22disk on my 486 to read/write both Rainbow 100 and IBM
CP/M 86 disks for the PC.
You mentioned that sometimes you can get an A> Prompt and
would like to know how to format the disks? that doesn't seem to be
likely for two reasons.
1. the OEM format program is not on the disk itself
2. Even if it were, (unlikely) how can you build a normal disk without
going through the aggrevating process of having your app start right
up without a way to shut the application down?
Every Manufacture's format program is different. the one for
Personal CP/M 86 on the IBM is not the same layout as the one for CP/M
80/86 ver 2.1 on the rainbow 100. Therefore, I cannot tell you how you
would start the format program itself.
Copying files to already formatted disks is really easy.
you use a program called pip.com (CP/M 2.2 8080 version) or pip.cmd
(CP/M 86 8086 version) to copy ALL files to a blank disk in B: type
pip b:=a:*.*[ROV]
that means in simple talk
copy ALL files, treat them as binary images, no text
processing (O), Verify your work (V), Copy any system files that may
be on the disk (R)
Pip has another mode that may be more usefull when dealing
with non-system disks sitting in A and B. running pip as I did above
will not work for you. but the interactive mode will!
With your system disk in A: type
pip and hit return.
You will see a * prompt, replace disk in Drive A with the new disk to
copy and the formatted disk in drive B you want to copy to.
lets say you want to copy some programs (*.com files for z80 for
example) type
b:=a:*.com[ROV]
this will work just like the command line version. when done and
at the * prompt again type (after putting your system disk back in
drive A: Control-C that means hold down Control and press the C key.
you will get your A> prompt back.
--
B'ichela
Barry Watzman
so.
You will need a disk format program, and also the "sysgen" program. Do you
have those ?
Alternatively, it may be possible to do an image copy of the disk, but some
information will be needed about the disk format.
Try A>STAT DSK:
and see if you get anything interesting.
Barry Watzman
PS - taking you at your word that you know nothing, you can get a directory
with:
A>DIR
or
A>STAT *.*
David Krainess wrote:
> We have a press where I work that has some sort of CP/M hardware/software
> and the manufacturer is charging $200 for a 3.5" DD disk with the CP/M
> operating system and app on it. The disks go bad about every month (the
> drive is constantly in use) and I keep having to fork out $200 each time.
> The program disk autoboots to a custom app. I can sometimes get to an A>
> prompt if I'm lucky when I remove the disk while the program is running
> (there is no 'prompt escape' routine in the program that I can find).
> There is no hard drive and I don't know CP/M at all.
>
Stewart and Leta Marshall
any sysgen or copy utilities on those disks in all probability. The
manufacturer wants you to keep coming back for those $200.
replacements! Even if you copy the files and figure out the format with
22Disk, which is very time consuming if you are a bit unfamiliar with
CP/M, you still may not be able to create a boot disk to run the thing.
You need a product called TeleDisk, originally made by the same people
who did 22Disk. It copies floppies into an image file on a regular DOS
PC, then you can make more identical copies back onto fresh disks. The
particular format doesn't matter to the PC and you can use a really old,
expendable machine like a 286 if it has a 3.5 drive. The program copies
the exact disk, track by track, boot sectors and all. All you need to
do is make copies of your system operating disk and this will do it.
The product is not shareware or freeware and it has recently been sold
to the following outfit. Cost is pretty steep for most of us at $100.
but half what you are paying for each replacement disk, so rather
affordable in this instance; AND you get full support from them if you
have any questions.
New Technologies Inc.
http://www.forensics-intl.com
The guy to ask for is Scott Stevens:
E-Mail: sco...@teleport.com
Good luck with it!
Cheers, Stewart
<-------------------------------------------------------------->
Marshall Machine Works
P.O. Box 279
Lopez Island, WA 98261 USA
http://www.rockisland.com/~marshall/
<-------------------------------------------------------------->
Stewart and Leta Marshall
company not long ago, one of the reasons they said they pulled TeleDisk
from the normal shareware market was it was being used by a lot of
people to make illegal copies of protected disks. So, you might want to
go easy on telling them you want to avoid paying your machine builder's
fee for replacement disks. That might make them reluctant to sell it to
you. Just tell them truthfully that you wish to copy CP/M disks for a
vintage machine that you use heavily and it eats disks periodically.
Cheers, Stewart
Don Maslin
: On 2000-05-09 davidk...@yahoo.com(DavidKrainess) said:
: >We have a press where I work that has some sort of CP/M
: >hardware/software and the manufacturer is charging $200 for a 3.5"
: >DD disk with the CP/M operating system and app on it. The disks go
: >bad about every month (the drive is constantly in use) and I keep
: >having to fork out $200 each time. The program disk autoboots to a
: >custom app. I can sometimes get to an A> prompt if I'm lucky when
: >I remove the disk while the program is running (there is no 'prompt
: >escape' routine in the program that I can find). There is no hard
: >drive and I don't know CP/M at all.
: >Here is my question.
: >How can I copy disks from the A> prompt?
: >BTW: I have no idea what the disk format is, or what version the
: >system is. The press manufacturer keeps all information secret and
: >there are no markings on any of the PC boards. I only know it's
: >CP/M because when there is an error it says CP/M. I have a PC
: >program called mdisk which errors out on analysing the 3.5" floppy
: >used by the machine.
: >Any help would be appreciated.
: >TIA
: Try removing the floppy disk while the program's running to
: get to the 'A>' prompt, and then re-insert the disk in the
: drive. At the 'A>' prompt, type DIR and then press the ENTER
: (or RETURN) key. If you're lucky, this might give you an
: on-screen directory of all the filenames on the disk.
: Look for a file named something like FORMAT.xxx, DSKMAINT.xxx
: or anything else that might appear to be disk-related. It's
: a long shot, and I doubt that the disk's manufacturer would
: have included such a utility on the disk.
: One key to unlocking your problem will be to determine what
: =processor chip= your system contains. Open up the case and
: take a look. If it's an 8080 or Z80 (or equivalent), then
: we'll know we're dealing with CP/M-80. If the chip is an
: 8086/8088 or higher, then we'll know we're dealing with CP/M-86.
: Next, you'll need some disk tools. Go to
: and download the programs ANADISK and 22DISK. These are DOS-
: based programs that will run on an IBM-compatible PC.
Good idea, but my understanding is that Sydex has removed AnaDisk
from the download area and is now charging commercial prices for it.
: Install ANADISK on a PC, stick your CP/M disk in the PC's 3.5-
: inch drive, and run ANADISK. Make sure you run it under =DOS;=
: not Win-Doze.
: Tell ANADISK to 'SCAN' the drive letter in which you inserted the
: CP/M disk. ANADISK should be able to identify the CP/M disk's
: number of sectors per track.
: You can also use ANADISK to examine the contents of each disk
: sector. Look through the first few sectors of the disk, to see
: if there's any readable text that might identify which particular
: permutation of CP/M is being used (CP/M, unlike DOS, is not uni-
: versal; it is customized for the particular hardware on which it
: is running. Look for something like 'CP/M 2.2 for the Kaypro 4,'
: 'CP/M-86 for the IBM PC, Version 1.1,' or some other such positive
: identification).
: Since your CP/M system is likely a proprietary, 'vertical-market'
: lash-up, it's possible that it might be totally non-standard.
: Then again, maybe not.
: If the particular 'flavor' of CP/M can be identified from exam-
: ining the disk's sectors, you might be able to use the 22DISK
: program to at least copy all the files from the 3.5-inch CP/M
: disk to your PC's hard disk...which would be a start.
Only true if his disk conforms to an existing disk definition, or
he is able to create a new one that fits.
- don
: Let us know what you find. That will determine what you must
:
B'ichela
>Good idea, but my understanding is that Sydex has removed AnaDisk
>from the download area and is now charging commercial prices for it.
area. just use ftpsearch and you will find other sites with it. Hers
some locations.
1 -r--r--r-- 131.2K 1992 Sep 3 ftp.cdrom.com
/.1/garbo/garbo_pc/disk util/anad207.zip
2 -r--r--r-- 118.3K 1992 Sep 2 ftp.eunet.cz
/.3/msdos/diskutil/anad207.zip
3 -r--r--r-- 131.2K 1992 Sep 3 ftp.sogang.ac.kr
/.3/msdos_garbo/diskutil/anad207.zip
4 -r--r--r-- 131.7K 1995 Jan 20 ftp.cdrom.com
/.3/sac/utildisk/anad207.zip
-
>
>Only true if his disk conforms to an existing disk definition, or
>he is able to create a new one that fits.
Well, getting the tools is the first step. Spending the time
tinkering with the image is the next most time consuming step.
--
B'ichela
anon...@bogus_address.con
On 2000-05-10 do...@crash.cts.com said:
>Good idea, but my understanding is that Sydex has removed AnaDisk
>from the download area and is now charging commercial prices for it.
Yeah, I'd heard that, too. Yet just last week, I downloaded a
shareware copy of ANADISK from Sydex's web site. It was still
there at that time.
Axel Berger
Try using is disk editor to find out, what the sector size is. If it
were to be 512 bytes, then you can copy the disks using BIOS routines,
i.e. with standard disc-doctor type programs. As I don't expect you to
have an Atari, I can't be more specific.
Otherwise 22disk and anadisk (both DOS) are good starting points.
--
Tschö wa
Axel
David Krainess
I downloaded CopyQM from Sydex and this actually worked in a MS-DOS (non-
windows) session.
The machine has an Intel C8087 chip and an Intel C8088 chip with gold
labels on the PC board. Really strange stuff compared to boards these
days.
Anyways, now I need a 720KB DD 3.5" floppy drive as this is all that will
work in the system. Apparently this is what's abrasively eating up the
disks. Anybody know who would have these new or in good shape.
Regards!
Don Maslin
: On 2000-05-10 do...@crash.cts.com said:
:
Are you sure that it wasn't 22Disk?
- don
anon...@bogus_address.con
On 2000-05-11 davidk...@yahoo.com(DavidKrainess) said:
>Thanks for all the advice.
>I downloaded CopyQM from Sydex and this actually worked in a MS-DOS
>(non- windows) session.
>The machine has an Intel C8087 chip...
A math co-processor.
>...and an Intel C8088 chip with gold labels on the PC board.
Okay. That means that the 'CP/M' which runs the system is actually
some permutation of CP/M-86. That simplifies things.
>Really strange stuff compared to boards these days.
Feels right at home to me. :)
>Anyways, now I need a 720KB DD 3.5" floppy drive as this is all
>that will work in the system. Apparently this is what's abrasively
>eating up the disks. Anybody know who would have these new or in
>good shape.
A visit to a couple of local thrift stores should turn up what you
need. Look for an old XT or 286 with a 3.5-inch drive. Chances
are, that drive will be 720k -- and it'll be fine. You should be
able to pick up the entire box (without monitor) for somewhere
between $2.00 and $10.00. Scavenge the drive, and you're all set.
anon...@bogus_address.con
On 2000-05-11 do...@crash.cts.com said:
> : Yeah, I'd heard that, too. Yet just last week, I downloaded a
> : shareware copy of ANADISK from Sydex's web site. It was still
> : there at that time.
>
>Are you sure that it wasn't 22Disk?
Heh! Yes, I'm sure, Don. :) It was ANADISK shareware version 2.07.
I downloaded it on April 29, 2000.
Rather than speculate, I decided to cut the Gordian knot and log back
on to Sydex's web site to double-check. But now their @#$% hosting
server won't let me in with my HTTP Level 1.0 web browser. Idiots! :)
Just going on memory here, but I think ANADISK was located under the
"Other Software" (or something akin to that) selectable link on the
first page.
If you happen to have one of those abominable pointee-clickee browsers
on your hard drive, load it up and go check out www.sydex.com. Let us
know if you find ANADISK.
Don Maslin
: On 2000-05-11 do...@crash.cts.com said:
:
I do, and I did, and I cannot find a downloadable ANADISK on the site.
The only one mentioned is ANADISK LE which is only available to law
enforcement types. Same result as I had yesterday when I accessed it
with Lynx.
Each page on the site says it was last modified on 4 Feb 2000, if that
means anything.
- don
anon...@bogus_address.con
On 2000-05-12 do...@crash.cts.com said:
> : If you happen to have one of those abominable pointee-clickee
> : browsers on your hard drive, load it up and go check out
> : www.sydex.com. Let us know if you find ANADISK.
>
>I do, and I did, and I cannot find a downloadable ANADISK on the
>site. The only one mentioned is ANADISK LE which is only available
>to law enforcement types. Same result as I had yesterday when I
>accessed it with Lynx.
Finally was able to get into Sydex's web site using LYNX on a
publicly-accessible server...and you're correct: ANADISK is
definitely gone.
Don't suppose there's much call for it these days among the
rank-and-file pointee-clickee lemmings. But I did find it at:
ftp://oak.oakland.edu/pub/simtelnet/msdos/diskutil/anad207.zip
..so at least it's still available for the moment.
Steve
Remember that for a long time they made only one 3.5" drive, which was
both 720K and 1.44M and you could simply use modern HD 3.5" diskettes,
but if you get the older 720K-Only drives then you need the older 3.5"
disks with only the one slider window, and no square window opposite it.
Steve
Steve
>
> anonymous@bogus_address.con wrote:
>
> : On 2000-05-10 do...@crash.cts.com said:
>
> : >Good idea, but my understanding is that Sydex has removed AnaDisk
> : >from the download area and is now charging commercial prices for it.
>
> : shareware copy of ANADISK from Sydex's web site. It was still
> : there at that time.
> :
>
> Are you sure that it wasn't 22Disk?
----------------------
It's under their Forensic section, but they killed the link. I have it
on my backup CD's if anyone needs it.
-Steve
Ardent
>
>I do, and I did, and I cannot find a downloadable ANADISK on the site.
>The only one mentioned is ANADISK LE which is only available to law
>enforcement types. Same result as I had yesterday when I accessed it
>with Lynx.
>
AFAIK ANADISK is at simtelnet msdos/fileutil subdir
Sandy Archer
mrs...@removethis.flashmail.com
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