Google Groups no longer supports new Usenet posts or subscriptions. Historical content remains viewable.
Dismiss

programming infernal Eproms!

393 views
Skip to first unread message

Wild Bill

unread,
Jul 2, 2015, 9:40:40 PM7/2/15
to
I have an A.R.T. (Advanced Reading Technology) serial programmer,
probably the very first version, ie something like EPP-1

Their website has what appears to be something later, EPP-1F and
EPP-2 something softwares, but they're listed as completely obsolete.

(see: http://www.artbv.nl/ )

What I am finding is, in both the DOS version (using a bootable
DOS from Windows 98) and Windows XP, and monitoring the
data lines with one of those LED equipped thingies, NOTHING
is getting sent either way, other than during boot-up.

I have set the serial parameters to 1200 baud, and tried
seven & 8 bits, odd/even/none parity, and RTS/XonXoff
to no avail.

Both set-up programs detect an attached EPP-1 but just
never talk to it. They know it's there.

I have other programmers around, but I'd like to try the
code Enrico sent me. And BTW there is something odd
about an editor programmer I found on the A.R.T.
website. It seems to ignore a lot of stuff in an eprom dump
file. It lines up the Hex clean and would let me transfer it
into the programmer once I find a way to talk to it.

I'm really thinking it's the ''modern'' serial emulations that
are at fault here, since even the DOS version doesn't work.

Besides the BB II BIOS, I picked up some MRM Data Radios
at auction, and I'm trying to dump the ROM to figure out
how to talk to them, and see what's inside. These were being
used with Mobile Data Terminals for traffic stops etc.

They use a Zilog 100-pin flat pac Z-80 so dis-assembly
should be trivial.

Being 'cop' stuff, manuals seem sorta hard to come by.

Question is, can they be used to send secure digital data
between them?

They were pretty cheap!

Bill

ps to Emmanual did you ever get Enrico's ROMPAC-2
working? There's one on eBay for $22.50 or so
with shipping ....

David Snowdon

unread,
Jul 3, 2015, 2:59:45 PM7/3/15
to
Have you tried using DOSBOX ?

I've had some success using the old PROCOMM terminal program using
DOSBOX on a Win7 64-bit system.

The freeware program can be found at: www.dosbox.com

David

---
---
This email is free from viruses and malware because avast! Antivirus protection is active.
https://www.avast.com/antivirus

ldkr...@gmail.com

unread,
Jul 3, 2015, 4:43:54 PM7/3/15
to
Bill,
For the Computer and the EPROM Programmer tell us:
1. What Connector is on the Computer DB25 or DB9? Connector for Programmer?
2. Specify if DB25's (and/or DB9's) have male or female pins?
3. Do you know if Programmer is DCE (Data Communications Equipment, or
DTE Data Terminal)

You Computer likely is DTE and DB25 and TX is Pin 2 with RX Pin 3 and Pin 7
GND (Signal Common).

Once you post that info we need to determine what Pins are what on both ends of the cable.


Larry

Wild Bill

unread,
Jul 4, 2015, 1:38:30 PM7/4/15
to
On Fri, 3 Jul 2015 13:43:53 -0700 (PDT), ldkr...@gmail.com wrote:

>Bill,
>For the Computer and the EPROM Programmer tell us:
>1. What Connector is on the Computer DB25 or DB9? Connector for Programmer?

DB-9

>2. Specify if DB25's (and/or DB9's) have male or female pins?

DB-9 (computer) PINS , DB-25 (ART programmer) SOCKETS

>3. Do you know if Programmer is DCE

No luck finding a manual; 2,3,4,20 green 5,6 red on my RS-232 box


While it's sure possible 2 and 3 need to be switched, neither ever
shows any blink that I can see. Gotta find some small (~24ga) wire
and cut some jumpers to switch things around ....

The software (both windows and DOS versions) FIND the device.

The software ''support'' claims their stuff does NOT work with XP,
however before we moved I was able to read eproms with this
device. Can't remember if I used a XP machine, or maybe Win98.

Again, serial is EMULATED, not using something like a real 16455
or whatever. Somehow, I suspect that's what's really behind a
lot of serial devices ''not working'' .... intended, purposeful,
obsolescence. And, ms trying to virtualize everything, blocking
direct hardware access. For the same reason - sell more stuff.

Bill

ldkr...@gmail.com

unread,
Jul 5, 2015, 7:44:39 AM7/5/15
to
Bill,
You can start by trying a NULL Modem Cable:

9-Pin DB9 Computer Connector
2 RxD Receive Data <--
3 TxD Transmit Data -->

4 DTR Data Terminal Ready ->|
6 DSR Data Set Ready <-|
1 DCD Carrier Detect <-|

5 SG Signal Ground

7 RTS Request To Send ->|
8 CTS Clear To Send <-|

9 RI Ring Indicator


25-Pin DB-25 Programmer Connector
2 TxD Transmit Data
3 RxD Receive Data

|<- 20 DTR Data Terminal Ready
|-> 6 DSR Data Set Ready
|-> 8 DCD Carrier Detect

7 SG Signal Ground

|-> 5 CTS Clear To Send
|<- 4 RTS Request To Send

22 RI Ring Indicator
1 Chassis Ground

If this works then try a Full Handshake Connection:
FULL HANDSHAKE CABLE
9-Pin DB9 Computer Connector 25-Pin DB-25 Programmer Connector
1 DCD Carrier Detect
2 RxD Receive Data <-- 2 TxD Transmit Data
3 TxD Transmit Data --> 3 RxD Receive Data
4 DTR Data Terminal Ready --> 6 DSR Data Set Ready
5 SG Signal Ground 7 SG Signal Ground
6 DSR Data Set Ready <-- 20 DTR Data Terminal Ready
7 RTS Request To Send --> 5 CTS Clear To Send
8 CTS Clear To Send <-- 4 RTS Request To Send
9 RI Ring Indicator
22 RI Ring Indicator
8 DCD Carrier Detect
1 Chassis Ground


Larry

Wild Bill

unread,
Jul 5, 2015, 6:34:51 PM7/5/15
to
Larry, and others interested in running serial objects from modern PCs

I found/find this little program to be a sort of Swiss Army Knife for
RS-232 de-bugging.

http://www.compuphase.com/software_termite.htm

It would probably have allowed me to get the A.R.T. programmer
going, except that so far I know nothing about the command
set for the thing. There's a map of Status bits pasted to the top
of it, but nothing about how to tell it anything in the first place.

I'll next go for a photo of one of my ancient RS-232 diagnostic
devices ... another ancient treasure to come out of the bowels of the
University of Arizona maybe twenty years ago ...

Bill

= = == =

On Fri, 3 Jul 2015 13:43:53 -0700 (PDT), ldkr...@gmail.com wrote:

ldkr...@gmail.com

unread,
Jul 5, 2015, 7:13:17 PM7/5/15
to
Bill,
The only setting that might be a special need is FLOW CONTROL:
1. DTR & DSR
2. RTS & CTS
3. XON & XOFF

It should be easy to figure out which one is needed by just
opening up a few pins of the NULL MODEM Cable.

Larry

Enrico Lazzerini

unread,
Jul 6, 2015, 2:37:08 PM7/6/15
to
Ciao Bill, sorry for my poor english :)
I think you have a lot of job to do! You want make your old programmer
alive and then you wish to schedule to program PFM on 2732 EPROM that
ferguson bigboard II uses! And you have the problem of not know how to
convert the hex ascii code I given into varbios bin code?
Let's see if I can help.

Programmer
DO you have a serial interface analyzer? In this way you can check the
status of each rs232 signals on the cannon connector. Do you have
successfully verified that the controller of the PC acts like an DTE
interface? The computer is automatically works as DTE port therefore the
pin 20 and 4 will be activated as soon as you start a terminal emulator
that selects that serial port.
You can test it by linking pins 20-9-6-5 together and 2-3 together. so if
you press a character you see hit again back onto your video.
I'm very experienced with serial cables. The meanings of you written is:
1. DTR & DSR enable if you need to use this signals to check that PC and
programmer are turned on
2. RTS & CTS enable if each device needs to have CTS on for to transmit
otherwise it stops
3. & XON XOFF enable if both devices use this way to communicate between
them

EPROM 2732
I have not checked on my card, but I read that the ferguson bigboard II’s
manual describes a EPROM 2732A at least 250mS.
I have a programmer Promac 2A. If you do not solve to make working your
programmer let me know I can see if I can program an EPROM for yourself
and I could send it.

PFM ASCII CODE
With program WinHEX you can convert the ascii hex code into bin code.
I made it so I can send to you the correct bin code

VARBIOS
Within the compressed file that i have recently sent to you there is the
source of varbios.
I tried to read how all routines are connected between them, but there are
so many point of question like: if BBII else and so on so the entire code
is a bit hard for me to understand. I remember that in the ferguson BB1
there was a little 16bytes code at the begin of the 2716 eprom that
provides to load the eprom into the ram at F000H. Now I do not know if it
there is again or not.
Somewhere into those codes I read that during the loading of ZCPR2 the
varbios was loaded at 1000H so… it seems a bit hard to understand all.
Try to disassemble the PFM CODE ASCII that I sent you and check if it
correspond to the varbios code presents in that files I sent.


DISC FORMAT
If you control inside the compressed file that you have recently sent there
is also a program named config. It contains many selectable formats. My
difficulty is to understand how the ability to configure via software is
achievable through a 3.5 "drive that I currently installed.
And my intention is to use these last few one for comfort carrying all
previous programs from of the format 5.25 ".

All is easy if we know how to do, and all is hard if we not know to do it.
Exactly like when once you see, your eyes are opened, it becomes much
easier. However, it will be your own, an individual vision. You will not be
able to simply TELL others what you see.. they will not see it!

:)
Enrico

gm1...@aol.com

unread,
Jul 7, 2015, 12:08:51 AM7/7/15
to
Just a thought, could your programmer need a printer port? I had one round about 1980 that was plugged into the printer port. As both use a 25 pin D shell connector it is easy to get it wrong.

Cheers, Andy

Wild Bill

unread,
Jul 7, 2015, 2:09:46 PM7/7/15
to
Hi Andy

I have been able to confirm, this is a serial device.

It defaults to 1200 baud, 8-n-1 CTS/RTS

It sends: "ART epp,ver 870808" when first powered on

Unfortunatley, the command set is different (limited) compared to
the (later version) EPP-1F which IS documented on the support site.

Assuming I get SOME reader going, I plan to read also the EPP eprom
to find out just what commands it does recognize.

Somehow, probably on another, older, computer I was able to
read some ROMS using the -1F software, but it seemed flakey so
I never even tried writing

Bill

gm1...@aol.com

unread,
Jul 7, 2015, 2:47:24 PM7/7/15
to
I have mixed up some of the early (1974) stuff and quite a few devices used the printer port. Hope you get it sorted - sooner rather than later!

Cheers, Andy gm1mqe

ldkr...@gmail.com

unread,
Jul 8, 2015, 7:50:35 AM7/8/15
to
Bill,
I would think that the command set for the EPP-1F (E)EPROM Programmer
would be about the same command set.

COMMANDS OF THE PROGRAMMER EPP-1F (E)EPROM Programmer:

The programmer utilizes 16 commands. A command in the process
of execution may be canceled by pressing the <ESC> key. The
command syntax has been developed to enable the user to quic-
kly operate the programmer without having to refer continually
back to the instructions.

TABLE 3.1 Summary of commands
<ESC> Cancel present command
uX* Define serial communication & dataformat mode
X Display serial communication & dataformat mode
vP Define E(E)PROM Start address
P Display E(E)PROM Start address
vL Define E(E)PROM Last address
L Display E(E)PROM Last address
vO Define Offset
O Display Offset
T* Test
R* Read
W* Write
V* Verify
G Get result codes
wS Set selection code
S Display selection code

* Error code will appear (should error result)
when using these commands
u Serial communication & dataformat code (HEX)
v Address (HEX)
w Selection code (HEX)

REF: http://www.artbv.eu/support/programmers/


Larry

Wild Bill

unread,
Jul 8, 2015, 10:15:32 PM7/8/15
to
Yahoo! Found another computer with a ROMMAX in it!

Haven't got a blank smaller eprom like 2716/2732 to try yet, but
they're around, too. Looks like last time I used this machine was
ten years ago or so! ROMMAX uses those little fly-back type
power supply voltage boosters, capacitors notoriously failure
prone .... not a problem, just gotta proceed in an orderly way.

I notice, this computer has the last capture files from Micro
Cornucopia's BBS ... March, 1990 when they ''died''

This computer also has four drives: 3-1/2, 360k, 800k,
and 1.2meg 5-1/4s and boots up running Uniform so
should read everything BUT maybe 8'' .... don't think
I used this one for that, but it's been a while.

How'd that Altos BIOS project come out? I saw the computers
in a stack (I've got 4-5 different Altos), maybe my ROM is good .....

Actually, I think there's over a hundred computers around here.

One I DON'T have, something I saw at an auction a couple weeks ago,
get THIS: A Pentium, looks to me like an eMachine, labeled CompuPro!

I thought, huh, must be a knock-off of the name, probably not
worth anything, not rare, etc.

Okay, can't find anything about something like that by search,
BUT there was a computer repair business here (AR) called
CompuPro (I'll post a picture or two) that closed several years
ago, folks tell me the guy went into plumbing business when
computer business (profitable one, anyway) tanked.

Okay ... back to work!

Bill

= = = = = =

Wild Bill

unread,
Jul 9, 2015, 10:04:38 PM7/9/15
to
Ho boy! When it rains, it just pours!

The EPP-1 is a pretty simple device. It doesn't HAVE an eprom inside,
just a ''custom'' Motorola 40 pin processor. Obviously with internal
storage area, but just as obviously, it's a very very tiny area.

Defaults are: 1200 baud, RTS/CTS, 8bits, NO parity, 1 stop bit.
I used a DB-25 (one end), DB-9 (other end) cable. Haven't tried
one of my trusty Trendnet TU-S9 USB adapters, yet.

All the necessary commands are printed on the cover, in binary. A few
things they DON'T tell you, is you gotta make sure RTS is ON, and that
the Selection (or type) is two digits, while starting address, ending
address, and offset are four digits. (no examples are given)

Then, having done just those settings, hitting 'R'ead will cause the
device in the socket to be dumped.

Unlike the later Jade, etc Japanese epromers, this thing is VERY
robustly made, never-the-less simple. Uses a hefty iron core power
transformer and easily replaceable parts. Didn't need any of that
(yet)

Other than that, and running Termite in Win XP, it just WORKS!

No DOS box needed! In fact, no MANUAL needed!

Capacity is limited, but not for working on older computers.
2716, 2732, 2764, 27128, 27256, and 27512 with 16 settings
for programming times 2.5ms to 55ms; Vcc Prog of 5V or 6V;
Prog voltages of 12.5v, 21v, or 25v; re-hitting each byte from
0 to 7 times, and FF Skip, or NO Skip

What's not to like?

Whoo hoo!

Bill

= = = =

0 new messages