CP/M-86 1.1 hard disk install CVV setup
Wrede
onto it. I built a 486 system (also out of parts lying around, I have quite
a collection :-) and found CP/M-86 1.1 for IBM PC/XT with AT patch. I have
installed CVV, but the problem is, I cannot change the FIDD memory setting
in SETUP for the hard disk boot. I'm not very familiar with CP/M-86. The
boot disk I used to install was the one avalailable as 144cpm86.zip, since I
have quite a few 3.5" 1.44M drives and only one 5 1/4" 1.2M drive (which is
in need of cleaning, not very reliable).
I copied all the files from the boot disk onto the native CP/M hard disk
partition and set is as bootable, but how do I make SETUP.CMD understand the
hard disk?
Uwe Poppe
CP/M-86 partition first. This partition you can handle with default tools,
e.g. you can format the disk, copy "cpm.sys" as first file to the harddisk
and then call setup and store settings for FIDD and other things to the
harddisk.
As a second step you can create a second partition with a maximum size of
8MB x 13 = 104MB for cvv as described in the cvv documentation.
Hope this helps.
Regards Uwe
"Wrede" <nos...@nospam.com> schrieb im Newsbeitrag
news:dgma7i$s3$1...@phys-news1.kolumbus.fi...
Wrede
"Uwe Poppe" <uwe....@t-online.de> wrote in message
news:dgmbas$uls$05$1...@news.t-online.com...
>I had the same problem some weeks ago. My solution was to create a 8MB
>CP/M-86 partition first. This partition you can handle with default tools,
>e.g. you can format the disk, copy "cpm.sys" as first file to the harddisk
>and then call setup and store settings for FIDD and other things to the
>harddisk.
> As a second step you can create a second partition with a maximum size of
> 8MB x 13 = 104MB for cvv as described in the cvv documentation.
> Hope this helps.
Actually, my problem was with storing settings to hard disk instead of
floppy, the option to change the storing location was pretty well hidden in
SETUP.CMD. Now I have enough FIDDs for xms ramdisk and 5 extra 8MB
partitions, all working fine. However I still have to enter the commands
manually at boot, since submit autoexec command doesn't seem to work. I have
edited a file called autoexec.sub with commands to set up cvv and xrd ram
disk, but submit doesn't seem to run the batch file, neither automatically
or manually.
Thanks anyway! I love fiddling with old OSs. :-)
Anonymous Guy
On 2005-09-19 nos...@nospam.com said:
On a CVV partition, you can't. Read Section 7 of the DOCs for
CVVMKBO.
Remember, CVV and CVVMKBO do *not* create a "native" CP/M-86
partition. A CVV partition is definitely *NOT* "native." :))))
In order to change the SETUP parameters on a CVV partition,
you must first change those parameters on your bootable FLOPPY
DISK -- and then invoke CVVMKBO with the 'S' command-line switch.
The 'S' switch tells CVVMKBO to copy the new parameters from
the floppy disk to the CVV partition.
Yes, this can be a bit inconvenient...but it's a small price
to pay for the ability to use CP/M-86 on huge, multi-gigabyte
hard disks.
***** However, on a 50 MB hard disk, you don't need to use CVV or
***** CVVMKBO. They're not necessary with a disk of that size.
The CP/M-86 utility HDMAINT.CMD is able to create a normal,
"native" 8 meg CP/M-86 partition on a 50 MB hard disk with no
problems.
A suggestion: delete all existing partitions from your hard disk,
and start again. Do a totally new installation of CP/M-86.
And THIS time, use HDMAINT.CMD to create a standard 8 meg CP/M-86
partition on the hard disk. Then copy all the files from the
floppy disk to that new partition.
With a true CP/M-86 partition as your boot partition, you'll be
able to save setup parameters to your hard disk anytime you wish.
Later, if you feel that you need more CP/M-86 hard disk space,
you can add *ADDITIONAL* partitions using CVV.
But use HDMAINT.CMD to create your first CP/M-86 partition.
It would also be very helpful if you could install a 360k 5.25-inch
disk drive in your computer. Don't use your 1.2 meg drive; CP/M-86
doesn't know about such things.
In the meantime, you can use your 3.5-inch floppy drive as a "360k"
drive by doing this:
- Put a write-protect tab (or some black electrical tape) over
the "high density" hole in a 1.44 meg floppy disk.
- Boot CP/M-86 from the hard disk. Then use DSKMAINT.CMD to
format that floppy disk (as "double-sided").
- You'll now have a floppy disk with a standard CP/M-86 314k
format on it.
You can then use this floppy as if it were a true CP/M-86 5.25-inch
disk. 22DISK and other DOS-to-CP/M file transfer utilities should
recognize it as an IBM CP/M-86 disk.
CP/M-86 is a wonderful little operating system. It's fun to use,
and fun to write programs for.
So don't be discouraged! Installation is the most difficult part.
Once you've installed CP/M-86 successfully, it should be smooth
sailing from then on.
Enjoy.
---
Visit The CP/M-86 Software Repository web site:
http://www.seanet.com/~klaw/
The largest collection of CP/M-86 software on the planet!
rwil...@tad.de
- Put a write-protect tab (or some black electrical tape) over
the "high density" hole in a 1.44 meg floppy disk.
its better to take a 720 kb Disk because of better magnetic
characteristics
(the thickness of the magnetic layer is different and this can cause
problems!!)
Greetings
Rüdiger
Anonymous Guy
On 2005-09-20 rwil...@tad.de said:
I understand your point. However, the magnetic coercivity
issue is more problematic when trying to use double-density
disks as high-density...rather than the other way around.
When used in a high-density drive, a 1.44 meg floppy disk
with its "high density hole" covered is rarely a problem.
Plus, 720k disks are now obsolete in the U.S.A, and are
almost impossible to find.
In fact, even 1.44 meg floppy disks are rapidly becoming
obsolete. Wal-Mart has stopped stocking them. Now THAT'S
gotta be a bellwether!
Not that this will mean anything to a German, but there
you have it. :)
Wrede
I was lucky I tried that *first*, instead of following CVV instructions,
since I intuitively knew a 50MB hard disk might be managable on a CP/M
system, being limited to 1024 cylinders (setting it up to "normal" in 486
BIOS gave me a clue:). The problems I had with installation were from my
limited knowledge (and lack of documentation) of SETUP.CMD. In fact, I got
CP/M-86 to boot and now I even have 5 8MB CVV partitions, but still,
problems exists, see the bottom of this post.
> It would also be very helpful if you could install a 360k 5.25-inch
> disk drive in your computer. Don't use your 1.2 meg drive; CP/M-86
> doesn't know about such things.
I use 144pat2.cwd do give access to 1.44MB and 1.2MB discs, which I use to
transfer software onto the CP/M-86 hard disk. I'm afraid I have no double
density disk drives, except for a single-sided Commodore 1541, which needs
special software and cable to be accessible even on a DOS system. A friend
of mine had a Commodre 128 which forgot in a closet ten years ago when he
moved away. Had he told me, I would have bought it right away even then, he
also had the 1571 drive. He didn't have CP/M 3, but it's easy to get these
days.
> You can then use this floppy as if it were a true CP/M-86 5.25-inch
> disk. 22DISK and other DOS-to-CP/M file transfer utilities should
> recognize it as an IBM CP/M-86 disk.
Using 144pat2 and 144prep2 I can format discs for use to transfer files from
DOS with 22DISK, it works well. I've had no transfer problems so far (just a
hassle, since I have to transfer them twice, first to a FAT disk, then
booting DOS and transferring them to CP/M-readable format) , except when
trying to use terminal.cwd to transfer files using XMODEM. It is probably
due to a faulty serial cable (or perhaps wrong protocol settng, there seems
to be no protocol utility to set XON/XOFF). I can send text from the
internet connected machine, so I might get around it by sending the files
uuencoded, but is there software to catch serial input to a file on CP/M? I
have modem9.cwd and terminal.cwd installed. Modem9 seems to set the tranfer
speed to 2400, so that's not really an option (I old enough to remember the
download times). I have an utility to set the transfer speed to 19200bps.
That isn't a problem with the 16450 UART on the motherboard I used, I only
need software for the transfer.
> So don't be discouraged! Installation is the most difficult part.
> Once you've installed CP/M-86 successfully, it should be smooth
> sailing from then on.
I'm not. I love figuring out these things. It took me ages to get an old
Compaq/50 (but the processor was 25MHz 486SX!) to run, since it didn't have
a hard disk, and there's no real BIOS on the motherboard, it loads BIOS from
the hard disk. I didn't have net access then, so it took me several trips to
the library to get all the needed installation disks to set up that machine.
The machine even had a 16-bit audio recording, but with a PS/2 connector.
Now, who the hell can plug a microphone in a PS/2 connector?-D
I found Aztec C 3.02 for CP/M-86 on the net, so I'll be porting software
soon (I have Frotz on mind, to play infocom/inform games on CP/M). Only
assembler I've done is 6502, but maybe I'll get interested in learning 8086
assembler while I'm tinkering with my CP/M-86 system. I'm fascinated by the
simplicity of the system. A 22 kb operating system file? I'll dig into the
source soon. :) I'm looking for good documentation though. The one site I
found had dead links.
Now the strange problem: submit.cmd doesn't work. I entered "submit
autoexec" in setup to automatically run autoexec.sub on boot, but it didn't
work, no error messages, nothing. The command line to run is only 20
characters, so I can't do everything I'd like to set up the system on boot
without a .sub file. What's wrong? Submit doesn't run any .sub files I try
to run with it. Might there be a version clash? I remember DOS having
problems with utilities compiled for different versions, like DOS Shell in
5.0 that I missed a lot when I got my first own PC with Windows 3.11 (DOS
6.22). File Manager did the same thing, but I've always been a bit
nostalgic.
Oh, and a rant: btw, over a 50kb command.com in DOS is just plain simply
wrong! Why should a such a limited command line editor be over 90kb? I know
4DOS.COM was over 200kb (but loaded all but 4kb to HMA), but it had features
that compels me to use 4NT for most of my file managing in Windows XP. Also
for those who like their XP efficient and text-mode, FAR is a good Norton
Commander style text mode mouse-driven shell for Windows NT/XP. I'm not
advertising or anything, they're just programs I've found very useful. Maybe
I'm just old-fashioned, but I don't like bells and whistles that do nothing
and jam the system. I like bells and whistles that do a lot, and take
nothing away. :)
Dave Dunfield
>almost impossible to find.
FWIW: I've got probably 10,000 new unformatted 720K diskettes
left over from the days when I used to ship my software on diskette.
If anyone needs some, you can have them for the cost of
shipping (located in Ontario Canada).
Big boxes of 500 disks, or little boxes of 50 disks. Only catch
is that they do not have write protect tabs - You will need to put
a piece of tape over the write protect hole in order to write them.
Regards,
Dave
--
dave04a@ Collector of classic pre-PC computer systems.
dunfield. If you have an old 8/16 bit non-PC system in need of a good
com home, please contact me at email address on the left, or
via contact link of this web site:
http://www.parse.com/~ddunfield/museum/index.html
s_dub...@yahoo.com
>
> Now the strange problem: submit.cmd doesn't work. I entered "submit
> autoexec" in setup to automatically run autoexec.sub on boot, but it didn't
> work, no error messages, nothing. The command line to run is only 20
> characters, so I can't do everything I'd like to set up the system on boot
> without a .sub file. What's wrong? Submit doesn't run any .sub files I try
> to run with it. Might there be a version clash? I remember DOS having
> problems with utilities compiled for different versions, like DOS Shell in
> 5.0 that I missed a lot when I got my first own PC with Windows 3.11 (DOS
> 6.22). File Manager did the same thing, but I've always been a bit
> nostalgic.
>
How much space is on your drive? I can hang my system if there is no
room for submit to make its temporary file.
Steve
Anonymous Guy
On 2005-09-21 nos...@nospam.com said:
> "Anonymous Guy" wrote:
>
> > But use HDMAINT.CMD to create your first CP/M-86 partition.
>
> I was lucky I tried that *first*, instead of following CVV
> instructions, since I intuitively knew a 50MB hard disk might
> be managable on a CP/M system...
Good work!
> and now I even have 5 8MB CVV partitions
Cool.
> Now the strange problem: submit.cmd doesn't work. I entered
> "submit autoexec" in setup to automatically run autoexec.sub
> on boot, but it didn't work, no error messages, nothing. The
> command line to run is only 20 characters, so I can't do
> everything I'd like to set up the system on boot without a
> .sub file. What's wrong? Submit doesn't run any .sub files
> I try to run with it. Might there be a version clash?
A version clash isn't possible if you're using only the files
from the 1.44 boot disk.
I've experienced this same AUTOEXEC.SUB problem occasionally
on a couple of different computers -- usually 386s and 486s.
Does the power-on command line 'SUBMIT AUTOEXEC' appear on
the screen at boot-up? If so, try rebooting (CTRL+ALT+DEL),
and see if the .SUB file executes properly on the second boot.
It should.
I've never taken the time to actually track down the defini-
tive cause of this anomoly. It might be some sort of timing
issue -- either within CP/M-86 itself, or with the BIOS of a
particular computer.
Then again (and this sounds strange), I've found that writing
a new AUTOEXEC.SUB file using a different text editor will
sometimes cure the problem.
Try creating your AUTOEXEC.SUB file with WRITE.CMD -- downloadable
from The CP/M-86 Software Repository (http://www.seanet.com/~klaw).
WRITE is an extremely funky little program that you wouldn't
want to use on a regular basis, but it seems to sometimes fix
the AUTOEXEC.SUB problem. Worth a try.
Good luck! Let us know what happens.
Wrede
>> autoexec" in setup to automatically run autoexec.sub on boot, but it
>> didn't
> room for submit to make its temporary file.
It's on HD, so there's around 6 megs available after installing all the
software. I found a site with submit.cmd replacements, but I haven't had
time to try them. It's a strange problem. Maybe something to do with booting
from the hard disk? I'll experiment with the replacements and if it works,
there's no problem then. The 20 character boot-up command line is enough to
load CVV, XRD and 144PAT2. I'd like to load time from AT clock etc. at
startup. All other software except the system software is on the CVV drives.
Is there any way to make the command line parser to seek from C drive (my
boot drive, I have two disk drives in the system) for external commands &
programs when you're logged to another drive?
Wrede
> from the 1.44 boot disk.
I installed a lot of software on C drive (like GSX and DR Draw), and I
noticed that a few archives had cpm.sys in the archive.
> I've experienced this same AUTOEXEC.SUB problem occasionally
> on a couple of different computers -- usually 386s and 486s.
The machine I'm running CP/M-86 on is a 486DX/2 at 66MHz, it's actually my
first IBM-compatible PC now that I traced down where I got the motherboard
from. :)
> Does the power-on command line 'SUBMIT AUTOEXEC' appear on
> the screen at boot-up? If so, try rebooting (CTRL+ALT+DEL),
> and see if the .SUB file executes properly on the second boot.
> It should.
The command line appears, but fails without an error message, no change with
booting again. And the biggest problem is that submit doesn't work at all,
it just sends back an empty line, and returns to prompt.
> I've never taken the time to actually track down the defini-
> tive cause of this anomoly. It might be some sort of timing
> issue -- either within CP/M-86 itself, or with the BIOS of a
> particular computer.
It's strange that there should be a timing issue. Unless submit has been
programmed by true hackers. :-D
> Then again (and this sounds strange), I've found that writing
> a new AUTOEXEC.SUB file using a different text editor will
> sometimes cure the problem.
Hmmm.. CR/LF vs LF? That might be the answer. I used TED to edit the
autoexec.sub file.
> WRITE is an extremely funky little program that you wouldn't
> want to use on a regular basis, but it seems to sometimes fix
> the AUTOEXEC.SUB problem. Worth a try.
I'll try it. Thanks!
Anonymous Guy
On 2005-09-24 nos...@nospam.com said:
> Is there any way to make the command line parser to seek from C
> drive (my boot drive, I have two disk drives in the system) for
> external commands & programs when you're logged to another drive?
No. Include the 'C:' drive letter in the command line.
E.g., E:> C:TED MYFILE.TXT
(This assumes that TED.CMD is in user area 0 of the C: drive,
and that its attribute has been set to 'SYS.')
Anonymous Guy
On 2005-09-24 nos...@nospam.com said:
> I installed a lot of software on C drive (like GSX and DR Draw),
> and I noticed that a few archives had cpm.sys in the archive.
Could you have accidentally overwritten your "real" CPM.SYS
(the one from the boot disk) with one of those other CPM.SYS
files?
Unlikely, but...
> The command line appears, but fails without an error message,
> no change with booting again. And the biggest problem is that
> submit doesn't work at all, it just sends back an empty line,
> and returns to prompt.
Even when you invoke SUBMIT manually from the command prompt?
Re-copy the CPM.SYS and SUBMIT.CMD files to the hard disk from
your original boot floppy.
> Hmmm.. CR/LF vs LF? That might be the answer. I used TED to
> edit the autoexec.sub file.
TED should be okay, but you might try using WRITE.CMD, anyway.
Be sure to press ENTER after typing the last line in the .SUB
file.
Mark Kent
Anonymous Guy <m...@privacy.net> espoused:
You can also use the 144M feature from Freek Heite to create
suitable floppy, before doing the CVV bit. That way, you
get to use full 1.4M floppies as well as big hard disks.
--
end
| Mark Kent -- mark at ellandroad dot demon dot co dot uk |
If you want to be ruined, marry a rich woman.
-- Michelet
Wrede
Yes. I'm finnish, isn't that weird? :D (I hate people who don't
appreciate other peoples' cultures, and the finnish). :D
> TED should be okay, but you might try using WRITE.CMD, anyway.
> Be sure to press ENTER after typing the last line in the .SUB
> file.
Ok, I've tried a lot of things, but still submit.cmd doesn't work. It
worked from the disk _before_ I installed CP/M on hard disk, and got it
to boot, with CVV &c. But those I load manually. It's not like the boot
partition (I made it with the utility on the boot disk) would know if
there are other partitions so it could say "the hell with this guy,
he's using more than 8 megs". I'm using a 486DX2/66 MHz, S3 805 display
card, 50MB IDE hard disk, it shouldn't be a problem. The I/O card is
external, not intergrated in this system. It's my first PC motherboard,
the CPU and the I/O card has been changed after they burned. Cost me a
pretty penny when I got them, nowadays lucky if you get 10 euros for a
built working system with Windows 98.
Wrede
that submit.cmd doesn't work even manually now. I'll write another
fresh disk and write the cpm.sys again. Though it didn't do any good
then... it's strange. Maybe if I could find the "turbo" pins on the
mother board and close them with a jumper, that might work. I think the
mother board slows down to 12 MHz at that.
Thanks to all of you. :)
Richard Brady
least the auto-submit at boot-up. With one item or two in the submit
file, I have no problem; with more, nothing happens. I have '86 running
on a 75 Mhz 486 Compaq laptop. I haven't explored whether other submit
files have problems other than the one at startup.
Richard Brady
Freek Heite
>> For the record, I also have problems with submit under CP/M-86 v1.1, at
>> least the auto-submit at boot-up. With one item or two in the submit
>> file, I have no problem; with more, nothing happens. I have '86 running
>> on a 75 Mhz 486 Compaq laptop. I haven't explored whether other submit
>> files have problems other than the one at startup.
As an experiment, make a 144FEAT boot diskette, and boot your system from that
diskette. Then, try your auto-submit thing with that diskette and see if it
works.
Your machine might be suffering from "stack overflow". From the README for my
144FEAT program:
*** quote ***
Besides adding 720 KB, 1.44 MB and 1.2 MB diskette support to CP/M-86, the
program 144MB Featue enlarges the local CP/M-86 stacks for the CCP, the BDOS
and for the control-break handler in CP/M's BIOS to 256 bytes each.
Originally, these stacks are somewhere between 90 and 128 bytes. For some
modern Pentium systems, these stacks are way too small. Enlarging them
solved some problems I had when running CP/M-86 on a Toshiba Pentium 133
system, like:
- screen saver program changing the current user number
- read and write errors on track 768 (!) on 160 KB and 320 KB diskettes
- scrambled error messages when trying to rename a file at the command prompt.
If you boot CP/M-86 from a higher capacity diskette, the stack space for the
cold start routines in CPM.SYS is increased from 128 bytes to 1 KB. This
enabled me to boot CP/M-86 on a 1999 model Dell Pentium XPST 500 MHz system
with Phoenix ROM-BIOS, where the ROM-BIOS is using ca. 180 bytes of stack
space when accessing the harddisk through interrupt 13h. I think this is an
excessive amount - but now it's no longer a problem.
*** end of quote ***
Have fun,
email: f.heite ATT hccnet DOTT nl
Anonymous Guy
On 2005-10-10 Freek Heite said:
> Richard Brady wrote:
>
> > Wrede wrote:
> >
> > > Sorry about the irony, if you didn't get it. I said in my
> > > orignal post that submit.cmd doesn't work even manually now.
> > > I'll write another fresh disk and write the cpm.sys again.
> > > Though it didn't do any good then... it's strange. Maybe if
> > > I could find the "turbo" pins on the mother board and close
> > > them with a jumper, that might work. I think the mother board
> > > slows down to 12 MHz at that.
> > >
> > > Thanks to all of you. :)
> >
Y'know, that's a pretty good guess, Freek. 486s and up
require more stack space for behind-the-scenes internal
"housekeeping" than the PC- and XT-class machines on which
CP/M-86 was originally designed to run.
This would also explain why the AUTOEXEC.SUB file appears
to always execute properly when run from a CVV partition
(which includes your 144FEAT driver with expanded stack
space)...yet sometimes fails when run from a standard
HDMAINT.CMD-created partition.
I'd say the mystery is solved.