Altair BASIC Source Code
Guy Macon
Udo Munk wrote:
>The written-by-Bill-himself stuff is not lost, but it is not
>available for the public, see links like this:
>
>http://www.theregister.co.uk/2001/05/13/raiders_of_the_lost_altair/
I believe that the source code to the original written-by-bill-gates
Altair BASIC *was* lost by Bill Gates As it says on this webpage:
[ http://www.interact-sw.co.uk/altair/other%20versions/ian.htm ]
"This source is "Version 1.1", so it's not the real first version,
nor is the first commercial release because the word "Microsoft"
(or Micro-Soft as it was back then) is notably absent."
...and as it says here:
[ http://www.ddj.com/architect/184404733 ]
"Actually, it's not quite the original, if you go by the version
number. ... What's there is 114 pages of code, constituting the
4K and 8K Basic source.
Unless I am mistaken, Altair 8K BASIC did not exist at the time
the first Altair 4K BASIC was released, so this is a later version.
-------------------------------------------------------------
References / also see:
Quest for the Holy Source: Ian's trip to Harvard
[ http://www.interact-sw.co.uk/altair/other%20versions/ian.htm ]
Stalking Bill Gates
[ http://gizmonaut.net/soapflakes/EXE-199711.html
Back to the Future: Bill's Lost Code
[ http://www.ddj.com/architect/184404733 ]
Raiders of the Lost Altair BASIC Source Code
[ http://www.theregister.co.uk/2001/05/13/raiders_of_the_lost_altair/ ]
Altair BASIC 3.2 (4K) - Annotated Disassembly
[ http://web.archive.org/web/20011211233332/www.rjh.org.uk/altair/4k/index2.html ]
Microsoft's timeline from 1975 to 1990
[ http://www.thocp.net/companies/microsoft/microsoft_company.htm ]
AN OPEN LETTER TO HOBBYISTS By William Henry Gates III, February 3, 1976
[ http://www.blinkenlights.com/classiccmp/gateswhine.html ]
I have a question: what is the earliest written-by-Bill-Gates
original-source-not-a-later-disassembly BASIC that *is* available?
--
Guy Macon <http://www.GuyMacon.com/> Guy Macon <http://www.GuyMacon.com/>
Guy Macon <http://www.GuyMacon.com/> Guy Macon <http://www.GuyMacon.com/>
Guy Macon <http://www.GuyMacon.com/> Guy Macon <http://www.GuyMacon.com/>
Guy Macon <http://www.GuyMacon.com/> Guy Macon <http://www.GuyMacon.com/>
Udo Munk
> Udo Munk wrote:
>
>>The written-by-Bill-himself stuff is not lost, but it is not
>>available for the public, see links like this:
>>
>>http://www.theregister.co.uk/2001/05/13/raiders_of_the_lost_altair/
>
> I believe that the source code to the original written-by-bill-gates
> Altair BASIC *was* lost by Bill Gates As it says on this webpage:
> [ http://www.interact-sw.co.uk/altair/other%20versions/ian.htm ]
Maybe he lost it, at least the source never was released so far.
> "This source is "Version 1.1", so it's not the real first version,
> nor is the first commercial release because the word "Microsoft"
> (or Micro-Soft as it was back then) is notably absent."
They sold it to MITS, also later releases won't include Microsoft, might
be an agreement issue. This 1.1 release might still include Gates
esteregg, don't know, seems in 3.2 it was removed.
> ...and as it says here:
> [ http://www.ddj.com/architect/184404733 ]
>
> "Actually, it's not quite the original, if you go by the version
> number. ... What's there is 114 pages of code, constituting the 4K and
> 8K Basic source.
This is an original version, just not the very first release tho.
> Unless I am mistaken, Altair 8K BASIC did not exist at the time the
> first Altair 4K BASIC was released, so this is a later version.
Yep.
> -------------------------------------------------------------
>
> References / also see:
>
> Quest for the Holy Source: Ian's trip to Harvard [
> http://www.interact-sw.co.uk/altair/other%20versions/ian.htm ]
>
> Stalking Bill Gates
> [ http://gizmonaut.net/soapflakes/EXE-199711.html
>
> Back to the Future: Bill's Lost Code
> [ http://www.ddj.com/architect/184404733 ]
>
> Raiders of the Lost Altair BASIC Source Code [
> http://www.theregister.co.uk/2001/05/13/raiders_of_the_lost_altair/ ]
>
> Altair BASIC 3.2 (4K) - Annotated Disassembly [
> http://web.archive.org/web/20011211233332/www.rjh.org.uk/altair/4k/index2.html
> ]
>
> Microsoft's timeline from 1975 to 1990 [
> http://www.thocp.net/companies/microsoft/microsoft_company.htm ]
>
> AN OPEN LETTER TO HOBBYISTS By William Henry Gates III, February 3, 1976
> [ http://www.blinkenlights.com/classiccmp/gateswhine.html ]
All interesting readings.
> I have a question: what is the earliest written-by-Bill-Gates
> original-source-not-a-later-disassembly BASIC that *is* available?
None for the 8080 so far, if you find one I would like to know too.
Microsoft BASIC for the 6502 was sold as a printed listing, I used it as
reference for my early Commodore machine, the first versions came with a
very minimalistic manual.
Udo Munk
--
The real fun is building it and then using it...
Guy Macon
Udo Munk wrote:
>
>Guy Macon <http://www.GuyMacon.com/> wrote:
>
>> I have a question: what is the earliest written-by-Bill-Gates
>> original-source-not-a-later-disassembly BASIC that *is* available?
>
>None for the 8080 so far,
I would be happy to find one for any system. I am curious as to
the coding style, commenting philosophy, indentation scheme, etc.
that Bill Gates used when he was writing BASIC interpreters.
>if you find one I would like to know too.
I would, of course. post the info here and email it to several
of the websites that archive that sort of thing.
Ed
> ...
> Microsoft BASIC for the 6502 was sold as a printed listing, I used it as
> reference for my early Commodore machine, the first versions came with a
> very minimalistic manual.
According to the book "The Rise and Fall of Commodore", Gates
was never interested in the 6502 version of MS BASIC. IIRC it
was ported to the 6502 by an employee in his spare time. Not
wishing to support it, Gates just sold it outright. This may
explain why the 6502 BASIC listings were allowed to escape.
Udo Munk
I had a look through the old books and stuff I kept. I found my "The First
Bock of KIM", the MOS Programmers and Hardware manuals published by
Commodore, but that's all what I kept from the 6502 stuff I had. I gave
all of the stuff away when I was done with the 6502 a long time ago,
sorry. Also I don't know anymore who published the 6502 Microsoft BASIC
listing, might have had Copyrights printed all over it. It was used (and
helpful) as reference listing for those who used a Microsoft BASIC with
their 6502 machines way back then.
Mr Emmanuel Roche, France
> I have a question: what is the earliest written-by-Bill-Gates
> original-source-not-a-later-disassembly BASIC that *is* available?
1) Guy Macon is a well-known spammer. Let's hope he will go back to
Hell!
2) Answer (for others): None. Bill Gates never wrote Altair BASIC.
According to the listing (whose photocopy was published in a
Microsoft Press Book), Paul Allen wrote all the BASIC interpreter
while Bill Gates was a student at Harvard (Paul Allen was a
professional programmer, him). After MITS swallowed the hook,
they both went to Albuquerque, New Mexico, where Bill Gates
wrote the I/O subroutines. A good third of the program was the
Floating-Point math package, written by Monte Davidoff.
Again, all this is written, black on white, on the listing.
(You will also notice that, in MITS "Computer Connections"
Bill Gates always talk about the I/O subroutines, never about
the details of the BASIC interpreter. It is Paul Allen who explains
what is or not available.)
Yours Sincerely,
Mr. Emmanuel Roche, France
CBFalconer
> Guy Macon <http://www.GuyMacon.com/> wrote:
>
>> I have a question: what is the earliest written-by-Bill-Gates
>> original-source-not-a-later-disassembly BASIC that *is* available?
>
> 1) Guy Macon is a well-known spammer. Let's hope he will go back to
> Hell!
Guy Macon is a well known programmer, who publishes useful comments
on various newsgroups.
--
[mail]: Chuck F (cbfalconer at maineline dot net)
[page]: <http://cbfalconer.home.att.net>
Try the download section.
Mr Emmanuel Roche, France
> Guy Macon is a well known programmer, who publishes useful comments
> on various newsgroups.
Him, a programmer???
Following your comment, I went to his Web site, and looked all the
pages:
I did not see one single example of code...
He must be so proud of his achievements that he never show them!
(If you want to see what a real programmer writes about his programs
do a Google search for "BAS by Emmanuel ROCHE", and see how
I document my programs.)
Steven Hirsch
Do you work at being rude or does it just come naturally?
Mr Emmanuel Roche, France
> Do you work at being rude or does it just come naturally?
Me, rude?
Puzzled, I re-read what I wrote:
> > Him, a programmer???
>
> > Following your comment, I went to his Web site, and looked all the
> > pages:
> > I did not see one single example of code...
>
> > He must be so proud of his achievements that he never show them!
>
> > (If you want to see what a real programmer writes about his programs
> > do a Google search for "BAS by Emmanuel ROCHE", and see how
> > I document my programs.)
Could you, please, tell me where in the above sentences I am "rude"
about him?
I only mention FACTS. I never make a derogatory comment about anybody,
even a famous spammer whose name can be found everywhere, but nothing
that he has done...
Me, my work can be found via Google, in the USA, in Italy, and in
Japan.
And I don't give a damn about being referenced by Google...
(As I wrote several times, it seems that the Americans are living in a
Fantasy Land: they are believing more advertisements than reality. The
"Subprime Crisis" is a perfect example of this behaviour. Who would
have given money to people who can NOT reimburse it? Only an American.
The problem is that, since the US Dollar is the world-wide currency
(especially to pay petrol), everybody in the World is affected by the
irrational behaviour of the Americans (like bankrupting the Lehman
Brothers company, instead of salving it: a perfect example). One
American once said: "The Dollar is our currency, and your problem".
For 10 years now, I have been predicting a big depression.
Unfortunately, everybody in the world (especially the poorer
countries) will suffer from the irrational behaviour of the Americans.
Curiously, this replicates exactly what happened 2,000 years ago,
after Athens won against Sparta: Athens was the winner, yet declined
and declined until it became a colony of Roma... (I cannot wait to see
if the USA is going to become a colony of China! China, today, has
more money invested in the USA than any other country in the world...
So, China will decide the future of the USA, not the Federal
Reserve.).)
Bill H
wrote:
I think Steven picked the wrong word.
I don't think you were being rude, you were being sarcastic, but it
does read as being rude.
No insult intended, but I don't know if it is a cultural thing,
character flaw, or a something you do on purpose, but a lot of what
you write does read rude, at least on this side of the Atlantic.
Maybe it is a clash of cultures that brings that out? Hidden
assumptions we all read in others words that are not really there,
just something that our culture has "taught" us to see.
Pretty deep thought there, guess that is what I get posting messages
after a large dinner, the wisdom that comes with a full belly. Feel
like I am gonna burst.
Bill H
Steven Hirsch
> I think Steven picked the wrong word.
>
> I don't think you were being rude, you were being sarcastic, but it
> does read as being rude.
Perhaps I overreacted, and for that I apologize. Whatever the correct term
is, that posting just rubbed me the wrong way. Grumble...
Mr Emmanuel Roche, France
> Perhaps I overreacted, and for that I apologize. Whatever the correct term
> is, that posting just rubbed me the wrong way. Grumble...
Ok. It is finished.
Personally, I think that you all forget that I am writing in a foreign
language that I don't speak fluently. As I already wrote, for me
English is a written language. I never lived in an English-speaking
country, and speak (at best) one minute per year in English.
That's why I always react to facts, since I don't master the
subtleties of the English language. (And, in addition, I learned
English "English", and this is a world-wide Newsgroup using American
English.)
So, let us go back to CP/M. Guy Macon knows nothing about CP/M, and
has never written a program running under CP/M. (Altair BASIC was
running on the hardware of the MITS 8800, not under CP/M, or at least
not until Version 4.51, while he talks about "the first version".
Conclusion: his message is off topic. He did not made his homework
before writing. Me, I am French, and never have seen a MITS 8800. So,
how comes I know so much about it? Answer: I did LOTS of searches on
the Internet, thanks to Google, and found the MITS "Computer
Connection" newsletters. I printed all the pages dealing with Altair
BASIC, or written by Paul Allen, Bill Gates, or Monte Davidoff, and
this is how I know what happened in Albuquerque, New Mexico, in 1975.
Unless, of course, you think that this is a conspiracy... For those
really interested in this historical subject, I am fascinated by the
second public letter by Bill Gates, that I find much more interesting
that the first, available everywhere.)
Mr Emmanuel Roche, France
"Computer Connections" is the name of the impossible to find memoir of
Gary Kildall.
(I have been trying to find it, recently, without any success.)
Thierry Schembri
> has never written a program running under CP/M. (Altair BASIC was
so, only people who wrote stuff for cp/m are allowed to post in this newsgroup?
interesting...
glen herrmannsfeldt
For Z80 or 8080 code that doesn't have to do with I/O it should
be the same for any OS.
-- glen
Hauke Fath
> Curiously, this replicates exactly what happened 2,000 years ago,
> after Athens won against Sparta: Athens was the winner,
Make that "Sparta".
> yet declined and declined until it became a colony of Roma...
You left out the Makedonian Alexander the Great, so this is a bit too
simplistic...
hauke
--
Eine Linux User Group, um soziale Blockaden gegenüber Frauen
abzubauen? Da wäre ja ein Schwulengesangsverein noch produktiver.
{David Kastrup @ d.t.r}
Guy Macon
Mr Emmanuel Roche, France wrote:
>1) Guy Macon is a well-known spammer. Let's hope he will go back to
>Hell!
Liar. A simple google search will show that I am not.
For the record:
What I am is someone who, once long ago, DARED to disagree
with Emmanuel Roche.
What happened was this:
First, Emmanuel Roche claimed to be in possesion of various
historical files relating to the early history of computing.
I was concerned that these files might be lost if something
happened to Emmanuel Roche, and gently suggested that he
allow the files to reside on multiple public webservers
owned by various folks who archive those sort of things.
He said that this was impossible because he had no website
and no way to get the files to the owners of any other
website.
I offered to pay all expenses for him to dump them to
a CD-R and mail them to a website owner of his choice.
He said he has no CD-R burner.
I offered to buy him one.
He said his system does not support burning CD-Rs.
I offered to send him a complete computer system with a
CD-R burner, pay for the blanks, and pay for all postage.
That way, even if he only has a CP/M system (his use of
a Mozilla-based browser to post here through Google
Groups leads me to believe that he has some sort of PC),
he can move the files through a serial cable.
Having run out of bogus excuses, he started insulting
me., so I stopped responding.
I am still concerned that those files (if they actually
exist) will die with Emmanuel Roche, and I am still willing
to cover all his expenses if he ever decides to allow them
to be archived on multiple web servers.
Emmanuel Roche is, of course, free to do as he chooses,
and if he had simply said that he refuses to share those
files or that they don't actually exist, that would have
been the end of the discussion. His claims that it is
impossible to get a file from his computer to a computer
on the Internet led me to attempt to solve that alleged
problem.
So here we are, many months later, and Emmanuel Roche is
still flaming me for trying to help him. And I remain
converned about the possible loss of some important
documents from the dawn of personal computing.
Please note that none of this in any way diminishes the
many good things that he has done and the many files that
he *has* been willing to share.
Guy Macon
CBFalconer wrote:
>Guy Macon is a well known programmer,
Engineer, and leader of a group of programmers, actually.
>who publishes useful comments on various newsgroups.
Thanks, mom! <grin>
Guy Macon
Mr Emmanuel Roche, France wrote:
>Guy Macon knows nothing about CP/M, and has never written
>a program running under CP/M.
Evidence, please.
Guy Macon
glen herrmannsfeldt wrote:
>
>Thierry Schembri wrote:
>
>>Emmanuel Roche wrote:
>>
>>> So, let us go back to CP/M. Guy Macon knows nothing about CP/M, and
>>> has never written a program running under CP/M.
>
>> so, only people who wrote stuff for cp/m are allowed to post in this
>> newsgroup? interesting...
>
>For Z80 or 8080 code that doesn't have to do with I/O it should
>be the same for any OS.
For the record, I have written various 8080 machine language
programs to do production testing on products that I have
designed. At the time I was using a Heath/Zenith Z-100
(S100 dual-processor system with an 8085 and an 8088 that
ran CP/M, CP/M-86, and a non-standard version of MS-DOS)
with custom S100 boards that I designed. I still have a
Commodore 128 that I often run in CP/M mode.
So the claim that "Guy Macon knows nothing about CP/M, and
has never written a program running under CP/M", like so
many things written by Emmanuel Roche, is a lie.
John Crane
Everyone here is a computer nerd. Including me.
I know enough about psychology to understand that nerds like to wield power
to compensate for perceived deficiencies in their lives. Unix gurus,
adventure games, whatever...
It's highly likely that a person may want to "control" information in his
posession as that would bring him a form of power. Said person may not even
be consciously aware that he is doing this as the drive lies in the
subconscious. He does not think. He simply acts. And in extreme cases, a
person may bend the truth to make reality match their perception. Again,
without thinking about it.
-J
John Crane
"Mr Emmanuel Roche, France" <roch...@laposte.net> wrote in message
news:d83f71a1-7aad-49bf...@64g2000hsu.googlegroups.com...
> Guy Macon <http://www.GuyMacon.com/> wrote:
>
>
> 2) Answer (for others): None. Bill Gates never wrote Altair BASIC.
> According to the listing (whose photocopy was published in a
> Microsoft Press Book), Paul Allen wrote all the BASIC interpreter
> while Bill Gates was a student at Harvard (Paul Allen was a
> professional programmer, him). After MITS swallowed the hook,
> they both went to Albuquerque, New Mexico, where Bill Gates
> wrote the I/O subroutines. A good third of the program was the
> Floating-Point math package, written by Monte Davidoff.
Please post a link to this "Microsoft Press Book".
thanks,
-J
Mr Emmanuel Roche, France
> Please post a link to this "Microsoft Press Book".
What! You don't have it in your library?
- "Programmers at Work"
Susan Lammers
Microsoft Press, 1986
(About $1 in second-hand bookshops.)
(The interview of Gary Kildall is awful.)
(If you like the photocopy of the listing, I can tell you where it
is...)
Gerard J.
00470 BILL GATES WROTE A LOT OF STUFF.
00480 PAUL ALLEN WROTE OTHER STUFF.
00490 MONTE DAVIDOFF WROTE THE MATH PACKAGE.
The book shows version 4.44. Version 1.1 also credits Gates as can be seen here:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Altair_BASIC#/media/File:Altair_Basic_Sign.jpg
"00580 BILL GATES WROTE THE RUNTIME STUFF."
dxforth
>
> I just wanted to let everyone know that Mr. Emmanuel Roche is wrong. The book, on page 70, indeed shows the first page of the listing of Altair 4K BASIC. The credits are as follows (including the line numbers):
a fortune. Being first to sell a working BASIC to Ed Roberts no doubt helped
(allegedly Roberts was getting several calls a day from people claiming to
have a BASIC 'nearly ready'). More interesting is what, if anything, was new
about Gates' BASIC. If all the elements pre-existed, then perhaps not a lot.
Richard L. Hamilton
of what came with my Osborne 1, it was an interpreter but tokenized,
where each reserved word was a byte with the high order bit on, and
some other things that internalized it enough to make interpretation
faster. Some googling may find an MBASIC program that can (with
minor adjustment for where in RAM the user program starts) list itself
without using LIST, by PEEKing through RAM from that starting point,
and printing a detokenized representation of itself.
Contrast that with CBASIC descended from BASIC-E (the latter by one of
the service academies, if memory serves) that had a separate BASIC to
byte code compiler program vs byte code interpreter that actually ran
it. Microsoft BASIC was definitely easier to use, although CBASIC may
have had some desirable features or performance advantage, which would
be way more than I remember.
So if Microsoft BASIC was easier (didn't need separate editor and two
more commands to compile and run), it might have had the advantage of
more people being willing to use it.