Comments from the Authors of 386bsd on the C.O.I.
Jesus Monroy Jr
Comment in this article are to me by Lynne in response
to the posting about "RFD: The Election of a new Moderator.".
1) Don't send the Jolitz mail on this, they won't respond.
2) If you send me mail, expect no less that three day delay.
3) If you post to the thread, expect no less that a
three day delay by me.
That's it!
=================================================================
Date: Fri, 19 Nov 93 13:24:09 -0800
From: ljo...@cardio.ucsf.EDU (Lynne Jolitz)
Subject: Re: please respond to Newsgroups
Jesse,
Sorry for the delay, but you know how it's been lately. Anyways,
here's my two-cents, for what it's worth.
Generally, when someone in a position to edit a newsgroup (or a newspaper
for that matter) also takes a position with one of several competing
groups, a conflict-of-interest develops. As such, a moderator (or editor)
generally chooses between being 1) a leader of a particular group or
interest and steps aside in the moderator position, or 2) declines the
leadership position with the group or interest, preferring the position
of mediating and possibly encouraging competition between several interests.
In sum, you can't wear two hats. You have to choose.
The reason neither Bill nor I wished to be a 386BSD newsgroup moderator
was that there was bound to be approaches and code announced that we
would probably not include in 386BSD releases for technical or other
reasons, and we didn't want to appear to favor a particular direction,
nor appear to sanction directions which we felt would be dead ends.
Since we couldn't moderate without inherently controlling and possibly
unwittingly supressing other opinions, we declined to be moderators.
It's ironic that the old BSD conflict-of-interest question is rearing
it's ugly head again, since the reason 386BSD Release 0.0 was released
by us (in March of 1992) was to resolve another conflict-of-interest
dilemma which arose between UCB CSRG and a commercial startup. BSD, in
particular, has a history of these little nasty mishaps that pop up
occasionally, and the resolution is rarely pretty. As usual, those who
ignore history are bound to repeat it.
The upshot: The "best" (least disruptive, most mature and professional)
thing for everyone involved would be for the old moderator to step down
"to pursue and encourage his interest" (what a great guy, everyone
would say) and a temporary "neutral" moderator (not aligned with any
group, but respected in the BSD world) take over until until another
permanent moderator can be found. This is done in the business world
all the time, and sure beats the alternatives (more disruption and
nastiness driving readers away, until not much is left except scorched
earth).
In addition, if the old moderator wishes to continue leading opinion,
he can always form his own newsgroup with a focus on that particular
agenda.
Anyways, I wish you luck in your endevour, as I feel you are right
in pointing out this conflict-of-interest, and that it really has
gone on long enough without change. I haven't much hope of success,
however, unless you manage to convince others of this. Since most
of the old readers (myself included) no longer read this newsgroup,
due to a lot of the nastiness which has gone on, it may already
be too late for this newsgroup. It doesn't affect 386BSD, however,
since I've got a number of articles in the queue for DDJ next year
anyways, so people can still read about it in the printed medium.
You can post this, if you like. If so, please let the readers know
that I won't have time to read the newsgroup discussion on this, nor
will I respond to email responses on this question. Encourage the
readers (what's left of them, that is) to decide quickly. If they
don't care, let it go, and get back to your more interesting work
with the FDC and QIC driver -- after all, that's the stuff which
will last long beyond these little virtual battles.
Lynne Jolitz.
--
Jesus Monroy Jr jmo...@netcom.com
Zebra Research
/386BSD/device-drivers /fd /qic /clock /documentation
___________________________________________________________________________
Alex Dumitru
: Comment in this article are to me by Lynne
[...stuff deleted...]
: Jesse,
8-) Woooooooo! Jesse? 8-)
: If they don't care, let it go,
Sound advice from an obviously more intelingent person!
: and get back to your more interesting work with the FDC and QIC driver
MEGA 8-)!
cheers
alex
Jaye Mathisen
Jesus Monroy Jr <jmo...@netcom.com> wrote:
As if anybody was interested in anything either Jesus or the Jolitz's had
to say about it.
Of course, the true test would've been to send this article to c.o.3.a, and
see if it would've been posted...
--
Jaye Mathisen, COE Systems Manager (406) 994-4780
410 Roberts Hall,Dept. of Computer Science
Montana State University,Bozeman MT 59717 os...@cs.montana.edu
Ken Hughes
: In article <jmonroyC...@netcom.com>,
: Jesus Monroy Jr <jmo...@netcom.com> wrote:
:
: As if anybody was interested in anything either Jesus or the Jolitz's had
: to say about it.
Well, I can't say I'm interested in Jesus's posts -- I found my kill file
is working wonderfully -- but I for one am interested in what the Jolitz's
are up to. As to their (or anyone's) opinion on the conflict-of-interest,
that's another story.
: Of course, the true test would've been to send this article to c.o.3.a, and
: see if it would've been posted...
You're right; he didn't. Strange, he cross-posted to every other group.
--
Ken Hughes | "I can't believe this is my life;
(hug...@napa.eng.uop.edu) | I'm going to have to send my SAT
FT-Ph D candidate, PT-ex-sysadm | scores to San Quentin instead of
University of South Florida | Stanford..." _Heathers_
Kaleb Keithley
>Jaye Mathisen (os...@cs.montana.edu) wrote:
>: As if anybody was interested in anything either Jesus or the Jolitz's had
>: to say about it.
>Well, I can't say I'm interested in Jesus's posts -- I found my kill file
>is working wonderfully -- but I for one am interested in what the Jolitz's
>are up to.
Maybe, but I wonder how many people will be interested in 386bsd 0.2
knowing it's riddled with Jesus (but you can call him Jesse) Monroy's
code. :-)
I know I've got a fairing around here somewhere...
Glen Overby
>Of course, the true test would've been to send this article to c.o.3.a, and
>see if it would've been posted...
And exactly what kind of test would this be? To see if cgd is going
to allow a flame war to consume .announce as well as c.u.bsd and the
other c.os.386bsd.* groups?
IMHO, it's rejection would have been appropriate.
Aside from Chris's NetBSD affiliation and a possible distaste for the
Intel / PC architecture, what exactly is the problem? I suppose we're
supposed to vote to throw out a member of the NetBSD group and put in
someone from the FreeBSD group? Different pot, still black. Anyone
who takes that job will have to make a stand one way or the other,
even if they're not developing code they'll likely be running one OR
the other on the box they moderate from.
While I'm on it, can anyone give a sample of what has been submitted
to Chris and rejected for posting to .announce? I'd like to see
exactly what I'm missing. .misc isn't moderated, so just post it
there and we'll all see what a gosh awful moderator that Chris is.
now watch: jmonroy will post some wild crap that cgd rejected and we
can all praise Chris for making it a tad bit easier on our KILL files ;-)
Glen Overby
speaking for myself; not the Company, nor anyone else.
Paul Vixie
ba.* newsgroup hierarchy a few years back, I'd like to repeat here and now
what I said back then and there:
"Sometimes it is better to have someone in charge of something
even if that person disagrees with me more than 50% of the time
then to have noone at all in charge of something."
Newsgroup moderators are like that. Everyone disagrees about something. But
it's still better to have a single hand on the tiller, at least for this kind
of tiller.
As it happens, I expect to agree with Chris much more than 50% of the time,
but that's just me. Let's figure 50% as the average among all who observe
what he does as the moderator, and then admit, sheepishly, that that's as
good as it gets in a ``mob psychology rules'' situation like Usenet.
--
Paul Vixie
Redwood City, CA
<pa...@vix.com>
decwrl!vixie!paul
Kaleb Keithley
sent me the following in private email.
I am bemused enough by it to share it with the rest of the world -- despite
the reservations I normally have about posting private email.
>DON'T RESPOND TO JESUS'S POSTS, YOU MORON!!
>FLAME THOSE THAT DO!!!
What's curious is that I haven't responded to any of Jesus' recent posts.
So, who's the moron? I think it's Flamebeaux.
It's easy to see that Flamebeaux is eager to win friends and influence
people. With such a winning attitude I predict that Flamebeaux will go
far in this world. :-)
I consider unsolicited email like the above to be harrassment. If I were
to receive more of it I would be strongly inclined to notify system
administrators and/or university administration.
Think about it.