speech playback using MIDI

[Don Souza]

I want to create speech, convert it to MIDI, then playback using MIDI
instruments. Is this possible? If not, can anyone recommend to get my
speech files as small as possible.

Don Souza
Oompala/639 Front Street
San Francisco, CA 94111
(voice) 415-392-3305
(fax) 415-392-3834
(e-mail) dso...@oompala.com
http://www.oompala.com/

[Nick White]

Don Souza <dso...@oompala.com> wrote:

>I want to create speech, convert it to MIDI, then playback using MIDI
>instruments. Is this possible? If not, can anyone recommend to get my
>speech files as small as possible.

It is not possible at all. MIDI is simply a string of events. like a
player piano. It cannot controll the tobal changes for speech.

Record speech with 11Khz and 8 Bit, if the result is not that citical.
It will sound like a cassette recorder, maybe, but this will save
heaps of space. ALso record in MONO unless you have to have stereo.

You need to compress the speech. Normal ZIP will do very little. You
need specialised compression systems.

please remove ns from my address when replying. damn spam!
Nick White
nwh...@ois.com.au

!!
<")
_/ )
( )
_//- \__/

[Bill Williams]

On Wed, 01 Oct 1997 22:59:54 GMT, nsnw...@ois.net.au (Nick White)
wrote:

>It is not possible at all. MIDI is simply a string of events. like a
>player piano. It cannot controll the tobal changes for speech.

True, of course. However if you have a soundfont compatible card (e.g.
SB AWE series) you can do some quite interesting things with
soundfonts using the Koan authoring system.
Check out the Uncertain Music Voices page for some fascinating
examples all using less than 512 k of soundcard memory.
The Uncertain Music Corps - http://www.umcorps.demon.co.uk

Billy
Liam Mac Liam Music
Barreiro, Portugal

[Timothy Kelly]

In article <342f6ece...@news.deakin.edu.au>,
nsnw...@ois.net.au (Nick White) wrote:

>Don Souza <dso...@oompala.com> wrote:
>
>>I want to create speech, convert it to MIDI, then playback using MIDI
>>instruments. Is this possible? If not, can anyone recommend to get my
>>speech files as small as possible.

Hi All,
Yes it is possible. MidiVox can do real time speech to midi. You can rap,
laugh, read out loud from a book, talk, etc. Speech to midi is actually
quite useful for drum and percussion tracks, any type of sound effects,
anykind of midi instrument that can follow the microtonal pitch and rhythm
patterns of speech. Say, like many African, Indian, Middle Eastern
instruments, which are in some ways more speech like, than chromatic.
With enough experimentation and the right filters, one could I believe
even do vocal tracks to midi, and then play them back, bypassing the need to
record vocals with digital audio files. That would really save on hard drive
space.
For more MidiVox info, just email me.
Happy Sounds
Timothy Kelly
MidiVox

[Michael Hyman]

In article <613ers$b...@sjx-ixn10.ix.netcom.com>, mid...@ix.netcom.com
says...

>
>>Don Souza <dso...@oompala.com> wrote:
>>
>>>I want to create speech, convert it to MIDI, then playback using MIDI
>>>instruments. Is this possible?
>

>Hi All,
> Yes it is possible.

What complete, unadulterated bullshit. Timothy, if your only purpose in
comp.music.midi is to misinform innocent readers, then you are doing a
fabulous job. If, on the other hand, you actually know it is possible to
playback speech on a MIDI synth by playing MIDI notes that were captured
by some device - then please provide factual details of how this is
accomplished. If you reply to this message Timothy, then I insist that you
provide factual details of speech conversion to MIDI and back to speech
can be accomplished. Otherwise, how about stopping your regular spout of
lies and technical misinformation? Please!

> Happy Sounds
> Timothy Kelly
> MidiVox

--
Mike
mi...@op.net ENSONIQ Resources on the Internet:
http://www.op.net/~mikeh/ http://www.op.net/~mikeh/ensoniq.html

[David Hwang]

Timothy Kelly <mid...@ix.netcom.com> writes:

> With enough experimentation and the right filters, one could I believe
> even do vocal tracks to midi, and then play them back, bypassing the need to
> record vocals with digital audio files. That would really save on hard drive
> space.
> For more MidiVox info, just email me.

> Happy Sounds
> Timothy Kelly
> MidiVox

With enough knowledge and thought, one could, I believe, figure out that
MIDI is just a recording of events, with no sound information stored in
them. Since there is no sound data stored, one needs to have a device
that can translate the description of what to play (MIDI) into actual
sounds, sampled or synthesized.

Now, I could make a speech to MIDI trigger, and use my voice to send
MIDI events to a MIDI sound module, instead of using a keyboard.
However, the sounds generated would not be an actual recording of my
voice, since no audio data is stored is stored in MIDI.

However, I and the rest of the world may just be stupid. If you have
figured out how to record an exact reproduction of vocals as MIDI
instead of analog or digital audio, I would suggest that you get
yourself a patent attorney and get your technology patented as soon as
possible. You would be a very rich man.

Forget the savings in hard drive space... Dude, with your technology,
you could probably get 24 hours of vocals on a CD in MIDI format,
instead of the 74 minutes they say we are limited to... Maybe it's a
conspiracy by the people who make CDs, trying to get us to buy more
media than we really need to...

Dave

[Timothy Kelly]

In article <619ik3$evb$1...@picasso.op.net>,
mi...@op.net (Michael Hyman) wrote:

Hi All,
MH wrote his normal rant, and as always completely ignores both the org
post and my answer, MH is still the biggest spamer in any of the music
newsgroups.
The org poster wanted to do speech to midi, and then playback midi
instruments using the speech to midi tracks. That was the way I understood
his post and how I responded to it.
I explained that MidiVox could do this. I also explained that MidiVox can
almost do spoken speech track playback, just through midi. And how I was
experimenting with this.
I do not claim, nor have I ever, that MidiVox does a lead vocal track
like digital audio does.
As usual, MH is outright lying about anything he posts in reply to
anything I post.
Attacking people over and over online is MH's hobby. His newsgroup posts
are tame compared to the ways he attacks people he dislikes in private
email. Hopefully someday there will be laws about online stalkers like him.
I honestly dont believe he even owns a single piece of midi hardware and
software. No one could own any midi stuff, use it, and be so totally
ignorant of midi, and be always so negative about everything all the time.
Oh well, not everyone online is a happy person.

[David Hwang]

In article <61m27o$q...@dfw-ixnews10.ix.netcom.com>,
"TK" = Timothy Kelly <mid...@ix.netcom.com> writes:

TK> The org poster wanted to do speech to midi, and then playback midi
TK> instruments using the speech to midi tracks. That was the way I
TK> understood his post and how I responded to it. I explained that
TK> MidiVox could do this. I also explained that MidiVox can almost
TK> do spoken speech track playback, just through midi. And how I was
TK> experimenting with this.

In article <342B82...@oompala.com>,
"DS" = Don Souza <dso...@oompala.com> wrote:

DS> I want to create speech, convert it to MIDI, then playback using
DS> MIDI instruments. Is this possible? If not, can anyone recommend
DS> to get my speech files as small as possible.

Don wanted to record speech as MIDI playback speech using midi
instruments rather than storing speech as raw audio data. He did not
want to use speech to generate MIDI events to play back midi
instruments. There is a very distinct difference, which only you have
misinterpreted.

Perhaps in your zeal to plug your product, you read it that way. Don is
talking about recording and playing back speech through MIDI. You are
talking about using speech as an alternative to a MIDI keyboard.

TK> I do not claim, nor have I ever, that MidiVox does a lead vocal
TK> track like digital audio does.

Not true. Let's take a look at the replay....

In article <613ers$b...@sjx-ixn10.ix.netcom.com>,
you, Timothy Kelly <mid...@ix.netcom.com>, wrote:

TK> With enough experimentation and the right filters, one could I
TK> believe even do vocal tracks to midi, and then play them back,
TK> bypassing the need to record vocals with digital audio files. That
TK> would really save on hard drive space.

To which Michael Hyman <mi...@op.net> correctly noted in article
<619ik3$evb$1...@picasso.op.net>:

MH> What complete, unadulterated bullshit.

With the right filters I could use my voice to drive a drum machine. I
could create an array of filters that could match the different "beat
box" sounds I could vocalize, and have them drive the 12 trigger inputs
to my Alesis DM5 drum module. That way, I could take amatuer drumming to
a whole new level. All you need to be able to do is sing the drums.
But what I just decribed doesn't address the Don Souza's question.

To answer Don's question. You can't use MIDI to store and playback
speech, but if you are interested in getting your speech files as small
as possible, you could record at a lower sampling rate and sacrifice
quality, if your application permits.

Dave

[Michael Hyman]

In article <61m27o$q...@dfw-ixnews10.ix.netcom.com>, mid...@ix.netcom.com
says...

>as always completely ignores both the org post and my answer,

Timothy, the original poster asked if it was possible for SPEECH (not
voice pitches, but speech) to be converted to MIDI, and then played back
as speech using a MIDI instrument. Your answer was "Yes it is possible."
You went on to write how MidiVox could do this.

Are you now denying that you wrote this? Let me clue you in on a few
facts about your MidiVox product and Speech, and explain why what you
claim is a total fabrication:

Speech differs from raw vocal tones in that speech consists of vowels,
consonants, sibilants, fricatives, and other phonetic constructs that are
created by the upper vocal tract cavity, the mouth, lips, tongue, and
teeth. The MidiVox product can only read voice-box pitch, gating
information, and volume. It uses a neckband transducer that can only
measure electrical glottal impulses. It is totally, completely, and
utterly impossible for the MidiVox to measure or register what occurs in
the upper vocal tract where all human speech is formed. It is ridiculous
that you keep insisting that the MidiVox is capable of converting speech
(not tones, but actual SPEECH) to MIDI. The electrical transducers used
in your product are simply not positioned, or appropriately designed to
measure any part of speech other than pitch and gate (sound on/off)
information.

You can rant and rave all you want about people posting messages which
you don't like, but the fact is, you are lying with regards to any claims
that MidiVox can measure/read/transmit SPEECH. I'm sorry you don't like
this FACT, but you're being incredibly foolish for continually insisting
this. If you have any sort of technical explanation to describe how your
electroglottogram transducers can measure speech components (vowels,
consonants, formants, sibilants, etc.), I invite you to respond publicly
with this information. I seriously doubt you can write anything in
defense of yourself other than your typical spout of childish attacks
against people like myself who accuse you of making up lies and
misinformation.

>MH is still the biggest spamer in any of the music newsgroups.

If challenging your technical misinformation and correcting your made-up
claims constitutes "spam", then I guess I am guilty as charged. I would
hope that most newsgroup readers would like to see questionable
information challenged, especially when it comes from someone who is
biasing his misinformation in order to sell a product and get other
people's money!

> As usual, MH is outright lying about anything he posts in reply to
>anything I post.

If you believe that I am lying, then you have every right and a certain
responsibility to expose my "lies" by giving technical details to prove
your case. You have consistently been asked to provide technical
information to support your wild claims, and you consistently ignore
those requests. Why is that Timothy? I'll tell you why - it's because
YOU HAVE NO IDEA WHAT YOU'RE WRITING ABOUT. If you had a reasonable
understanding of your own MidiVox product (which you clearly do not),
then you would not be making outlandish false public claims such as:

1) MidiVox can convert speech to MIDI (it cannot);
2) MidiVox is the fastest MIDI controller ever created (it is not);
3) MidiVox is so fast at converting voice to MIDI to sound, that the
performer will hear the synth before they hear their own voice
(completely false, and a physical impossibility);
4) the MidiVox company will give a free MidiVox to anyone who has a
"faster" MIDI product (a total lie, given that you will not back up this
claim when people ask you to);
5) MidiVox operates with "no delays" (false again);
6) MidiVox was one of the first companies to offer a 30 day money back
guarantee (thousands of companies offered this way before MidiVox was
ever a company);
7) MidiVox's electronics incorporates several "motherboards" (it does
not);
8) MidiVox is a "New Patented Invention" (actually it is patented, but
the patent was issued over 6 years prior to you making this claim);
9) MidiVox can interface to "anything" in the future (a wholly
outlandish, and false claim);
10) MidiVox reads the human vocal cords, which "are the fastest nerves
and muscles in the body." (a complete lie, since vocal cords are neither
nerves nor muscles!);
11) "MidiVox only takes half a cycle to get audible sound," (false);
12) Most of the delay coming from the MidiVox "is in the midi cable
itself." (false again);

I really wonder if the state Attorney General of Texas (where you do
business) could go after you for violating state business laws by writing
all of the above fraudulent claims in your on-line advertisements. And
beyond what I point out above, Timothy Kelly has made even more
outrageous claims, lies, and misinformation on other technical music
topics.

Timothy, I've said it before, and I'll say it again: You are a menace to
the music newsgroups. There are people who read posts here in order to
learn, and your continued technical misinformation is harmful. Don't you
see this? You should be ashamed of yourself, especially since you are a
musical instrument equipment manufacturer.

> Attacking people over and over online is MH's hobby.

No Timothy - exposing shams, frauds, and shysters like yourself is my
hobby. At least I can provide technical, cohesive arguments to support
myself and my claims. You, on the other hand, cannot.

> Happy Sounds
> Timothy Kelly
> MidiVox

Happy Misinformation, Timothy.

[Tremlo]

<Ranting and Rambling Snippage>

>Timothy, the original poster asked if it was possible for SPEECH (not
>voice pitches, but speech) to be converted to MIDI, and then played back
>as speech using a MIDI instrument. Your answer was "Yes it is possible."
>You went on to write how MidiVox could do this.

I do not have the original post, so I can't make a decision on what
Timothy was actually asking, however, If you are stating that it is
not possible to record a snippet of speech, and then play it back
through MIDI, then you are sadly mistaken.

You can play back ANY digital sample that you desire, whether it be
piano, stings, rain, thunder, or YES my friend.... speech!

This MidiVox product, as I understand, is used to create tones coming
from a microphone or line-in into MIDI instructions. Whether this be
speech or guitar tones it doesn't matter. It converts them into MIDI
instructions. Now, granted, the MIDI instructions created by talking
into the Microphone will not 'record' the voice as a 'sample'. It
will record it as a MIDI INSTRUCTION. Why is it so difficult for
people to understand the MIDI is simply a protocol used for different
devices to 'talk' or 'communicate' with each other. MIDI is not
music. It is a protocol. Music is created by using MIDI to tell a
sampler, or synthesizer what and how to play things. And guess
what... you can use a MIDI instruction to tell a sampler to play a
Speech sample if you like. You can also use MIDI to tell a computer
to turn lights on and off... or tell a computer to display a certain
graphic... or whatever you want! Granted, of course, that you
program the interface for it.

Now why don't we all grab a MIDI FAQ and read up on what your arguing
about before you make a complete fool out of yourself again.

Stop this useless quibbling and post something meaningful!

<Huge Snippage of worthless ego feeding Smut>

-Allen

[Timothy Kelly]

Hi All,
Sorry that anyone has to put up with MH's wild rantings.
Anyone who wants to can read the original post and my replies to it.
Again MH is claiming to be an expert on gear, and other subjects that he
knows nothing about. Thats just the way he is. Some are online because they
enjoy life, are happy people want to help others. He isnt.
Hes so mad that I refuse to answer his personal email rants against me,
that he is now even sending me email blasts under false names, and using
software like aols instant messages from the Internet to aol, to stalk after
me when I am on aol even.
MidiVox has developed by voice research specialists and voice teachers.
MidiVox does measure vocal system activity in all parts of the vocal system,
the upper as well as the lower vocal tract. MH knows nothing about how
MidiVox was designed, how it works, and what it can or cant do. He has never
seen one, or tried it out. He believes it is some kind of pitch to midi
device, that uses a neckband, instead of a mic. This isnt correct, but his
understanding of hardware and software and the human voice is so limited
that this is the best he can do. And I dont go into long detailed
explanations of what the hardware can do, on any newsgroup, for this isnt
the place. Anyone can email me for as much MidiVox info as they want.
Sorry that someone with a personal vendatta against me, keeps ranting in
some of the newsgroups I read and post to. But hes been doing it for years
now. And also in private email to me. And now even on aol. I'm sure that if
I joined Prodigy or Compuserve, he would be personally attacking me there
also.
Maybe someday he will be in a book as the first usenet stalker. I think
that is his goal.
Its sad, that even on the internet which is the worlds most open
communications medium, some like MH get really upset with anyone who has a
viewpoint or opinion different than theirs. Life can be pretty tough to
those always getting angry because others are different than they are.
When I post to a thread, I dont trash the other posters, or worry if they
have different viewpoints and opinions on anything. Variety is the whole
point of usenet. For every piece of hardware and software I own, there are
those who love the stuff I have, also those who dislike it. Thats just life.
I wish MH would grow up, so that he could see that its ok if someone else
is different than him, knows different things, believes differently.
Since he keeps using this newsgroup every few mos to attack me over and
over, just wanted to explain a little of the history of his attacks and how
sneaky he keeps trying to get with his personal attacks on me and any info I
post on any subject.
Thanks for all the positive email I get daily.

[Michael Hyman]

In article <62b75h$k...@dfw-ixnews5.ix.netcom.com>, mid...@ix.netcom.com
says...

>
> MidiVox has developed by voice research specialists and voice teachers.
>MidiVox does measure vocal system activity in all parts of the vocal system,
>the upper as well as the lower vocal tract.

The issue is whether the MidiVox can convert Speech to MIDI - something
you have claimed in several messages in the past.

Please explain how the MidiVox throatband transducer, which is a modified
medical electroglottograph designed to measure glottal impulses, can
measure vowels and consonants that are formed by the mouth, tongue, and
teeth. If you want to end this discussion, just answer this question
truthfully. It should be simple for you to answer with all the voice
research specialists at your disposal.

>MH knows nothing about how
>MidiVox was designed, how it works, and what it can or cant do. He has never
>seen one, or tried it out.

And how exactly do you know any of this to be true? How can you possibly
know what I know about MidiVox or if I've ever seen one or used one? You
are again making up lies and posting these publicly to suit your purposes.
The concept for MidiVox was developed and patented by a researcher in New
Jersey. MidiVox is based on US Patent #5,171,930. The text of this
patent is available on-line. Your MidiVox company is licensed to
manufacture and sell the product. Do you understand how the MidiVox
actually works, Timothy?. If you do, you should be able to answer the
question above and repeated here: How does the MidiVox throatband
transducer, which is designed to measure glottal impulses, measure vowel
and consonant sounds that are formed by the mouth, tongue, and teeth?

>He believes it is some kind of pitch to midi device, that uses a neckband,
>instead of a mic. This isnt correct, but his understanding of hardware and
>software and the human voice is so limited that this is the best he can do.

For one who claims that *I* make up lies and post them to this newsgroup,
you're sure doing a hell of a job yourself. I have never once claimed
anything remotely resembling what you wrote above. Cite a source or
quote me verbatim for the above claim. You cannot.

The MidiVox operates by using transducers in the neckband to measure
electrical glottal impulses which correspond to the glottis (vocal cords)
opening and closing. By measuring the time between impulses, the MidiVox
electronics and software can derive pitch information. What cannot be
derived is any SPEECH information. Do you dispute this? If so, provide
technical details how actual human speech components can be measured by
your neckband electrical transducers.

>And I dont go into long detailed
>explanations of what the hardware can do, on any newsgroup, for this isnt
>the place.

I'm sorry Timothy, but this is the place to respond to technical
complaints disputing your public newsgroup claims. You keep claiming
that the MidiVox can convert SPEECH TO MIDI. This is impossible. But
if you believe it is possible, then post some sort of technical
explanation and refute my points above and in my previous messages.

Timothy - it is true that you don't go into long detailed explanations.
Unfortunately, you don't get into ANY explanations. Ever. You only
seem capable of whining and complaining when people point out your
misinformation. I challenge you to answer any of my technical questions
and requests for further information. One more time: How does the
MidiVox throatband transducer, which is designed to measure glottal
impulses, measure vowel and consonant sounds that are formed by the
mouth, tongue, and teeth?

The MidiVox product is incapable of measuring SPEECH. It can only
measure pitch, volume, and gate (on/off) information. Speech consists

of vowels, consonants, sibilants, fricatives, and other phonetic
constructs that are created by the upper vocal tract cavity, the mouth,

lips, tongue, and teeth. The MidiVox product uses a neckband transducer
that is incapable of measuring these. The transducers are designed to
measure electrical impulses from the glottis, and even if they did measure
audio (which is necessary for recording or listening to human speech),
they are improperly positioned to measure sound created and emanating from
human lips. MidiVox cannot convert human speech into MIDI messages, no
matter how much you rant and rave.

> Sorry that someone with a personal vendatta against me,

Timothy, stop it already with the personal vendetta (not "vendatta") and
stalking misdirection. (What on earth you mean by AOL messages and
stalking is beyond me.) The issue here is FACTS and TRUTHFUL
INFORMATION, versus the lies and misinformation which you publicly post
to the music newsgroups. I have nothing against you personally. I think
the MidiVox product is interesting and unique, and have stated this more
than once. The MidiVox has also been well received in magazine product
reviews. The only issue is your constant stream of misinformation and
outright lies. People on-line have every right to challenge public
claims made by a musical instrument manufacturer and direct mail order
company such as yours. If you post ridiculous and ludicrous false
claims, and attempt to get people to buy your product based on these
false claims, then people who know better are going to challenge you.
That's the way things work.

> Its sad, that even on the internet which is the worlds most open
>communications medium, some like MH get really upset with anyone who has a
>viewpoint or opinion different than theirs.

Timothy - this entire discussion is not about viewpoints and opinions -
it's about TRUTH and correct technical information. There is no halfway
point regarding every technical claim I've disputed with you. The
saddest thing here is that you probably believe your misinformation
which you post to the music newsgroups.

I'll repeat my question one more time. How does the MidiVox throatband
transducer, which is designed to measure glottal impulses, measure vowel
and consonant sounds that are formed by the mouth, tongue, and teeth?

> Happy Sounds
> Timothy Kelly
> MidiVox

Answer my technical questions with factual answers Timothy. (Are you
capable of doing this, I wonder?)

[Michael Hyman]

In article <62bpd8$hun$1...@picasso.op.net>, mi...@op.net says...

>
>I'll repeat my question one more time. How does the MidiVox throatband
>transducer, which is designed to measure glottal impulses, measure vowel
>and consonant sounds that are formed by the mouth, tongue, and teeth?
>
>> Happy Sounds
>> Timothy Kelly
>> MidiVox
>
>Answer my technical questions with factual answers Timothy. (Are you
>capable of doing this, I wonder?)

The wondering is over. Apparently Timothy Kelly cannot answer technical
questions with factual answers (or any answers that address the question
asked, for that matter.)

For reference purposes, here's one of the MidiVox misinformation posts
that started this particular brouhaha 2 weeks ago:

In article <61m27o$q...@dfw-ixnews10.ix.netcom.com>, mid...@ix.netcom.com
says...

> The org poster wanted to do speech to midi, and then playback midi

>instruments using the speech to midi tracks. That was the way I understood

>his post and how I responded to it.

> I explained that MidiVox could do this. I also explained that MidiVox can
>almost do spoken speech track playback, just through midi.