!!!!!!!!!!!! POWER MAC FOR SALE !!!!!!!!!!!!
Adam
Yes free software including Photoshop 3, and Illustrator 6 if you
kindly take my Power Mac off my hands. System includes :
Power Mac 8100/100 CD 16Mb 1Gb
17" Trinitron monitor and extended keyboard
Wacom A5 graphics tablet
28,800 Supra Express modem
A4 Hewlett Packard 850c Deskjet printer.
Iomega Zip Drive
Offers around £2500. I live near Leamington Spa Warwickshire, England.
You can E-mail me on : ad...@codemast.demon.co.uk.
Regards
Adam
Adam
Adam
Adam
Adam
Adam
Sy A. Gelbard
About a year ago, I bought a Syquest EZ Drive-135. I've had several
problems with it and had to return it to Syquest for repair.
They just sent me a new one. The problem I'm having is that the disk
icon doesn't automatically show up on my desktop when I insert the
disk. I have to go open up "Hard Disk Tool Kit and mount the disk
which then shows up on my desktop. It used to show up automatically on
my desktop.
Any ideas would be appreciated. Please respond by e-mail.
Sy
David Taylor
ad...@codemast.demon.co.uk (Adam) wrote:
>#>Yes free software including Photoshop 3, and Illustrator 6 if you
>#>kindly take my Power Mac off my hands. System includes :
>#>
>#>Power Mac 8100/100 CD 16Mb 1Gb
>#>17" Trinitron monitor and extended keyboard
>#>Wacom A5 graphics tablet
>#>28,800 Supra Express modem
>#>A4 Hewlett Packard 850c Deskjet printer.
>#>Iomega Zip Drive
>#>
>#>Offers around £2500. I live near Leamington Spa Warwickshire, England.
>#>You can E-mail me on : ad...@codemast.demon.co.uk.
>#>
>#>Regards
>#>
>#>Adam
I believe that we all get the point, Adam -- you have a computer to
sell.
BTW, the equivalent of $ 5,000.00 for this (used) configuration plus
shipping and handling is not exactly a bargain!
David Taylor
(THE) Marketing Solutions Ltd.
mkt...@inforamp.net
tay...@ibm.net
Tha C. Lee
Hmm..I have a ez drive myself and have not had any problems with it. I
can relate to your problem somewhat.
First of all, the drive has to be mounted in the beginning in order for
the disk icons to show thereafter. If you were to restart or shutdown
your computer, you're going to have to remount the drive; either by
turning it on right before you turn on your computer, or use (silverlining
lite) some mounting software to mount the drive/disk. After the first
disk appears, you shouldnt' have any trouble seeing the others when you
insert different disks.
Keep in mind that you're going to have to remount everytime you restart
or shutdown your computer.
Hope it works....:)
Andrew J. Braverman
leave a disk in the drive when you boot the computer up. This will let
the system load the driver for the EZ Drive. After that, you can unmount
the disk and insert a new one and it will automatically work...
Brandon King
I have it set up so that if you have the drive on before the computer
starts up, it will automatically load the driver. I then scans tha bus
every three seconds for a disk. This way you have it ready whenever you
need it. Make sure you have the Silverlining Lite CP in the CP folder.
-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+
Brandon King "There are no evil thoughts, except one:
bki...@emory.edu not to think"
-Francisco D'Anconia from _Atlas Shrugged_.
-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+
Scott
He just needs an active teriminator instead of the passive one the unit
ships with.
Lisa Denkinger
Adam wrote:
>
> Yes free software including Photoshop 3, and Illustrator 6 if you
>
> 28,800 Supra Express modem
>
> Offers around £2500. I live near Leamington Spa Warwickshire, England.
>
> Adam
Gee, this seems like a lot of money for a machine that can't seem to
send on one message at a time./
Unknown
ad...@codemast.demon.co.uk (Adam) wrote:
>Yes free software including Photoshop 3, and Illustrator 6 if you
>kindly take my Power Mac off my hands. System includes :
>Power Mac 8100/100 CD 16Mb 1Gb
>17" Trinitron monitor and extended keyboard
>Wacom A5 graphics tablet
>28,800 Supra Express modem
>A4 Hewlett Packard 850c Deskjet printer.
>Iomega Zip Drive
>Offers around £2500. I live near Leamington Spa Warwickshire, England.
>You can E-mail me on : ad...@codemast.demon.co.uk.
>Regards
>Adam
Hey! Adam! Why you sell this machine???
Did you find this is a fucking dog shit and don't want to see it
again????
Mac people, super block head!!!!!!!
When you buy your first Mac, you become a looser!!!!!!!!!
Eat your machice, Adam, you got what I meant?????
Dave
Intelligent little boy, aren't you... Do you own a PC by any chance?
Dave
Glenn Springer
For Sale: My entire collection of
"Before & After: How to Design Cool Stuff".
I have every issue except the very first one:
Vol. 1 #2 through #6
Vol. 2 #1 through #6
Vol. 3 #1 through #6
Vol. 4 #1 through #6
Vol. 5 #1 through #4
For those who don’t know, this is the best conceived, most highly
acclaimed series on computer graphic design. The tips and techniques
inside will astound you.
The publisher sells back issues for $8 US each ($48/volume). That would
be over $300 CDN for the above set.
I’m asking $200 CDN for the set. And my subscription doesn’t run out for
another 2 issues which I will include for free (I’ll send them a change
of address).
Reason for sale: I’m no longer in the graphics business.
Please reply by email. Serious offers only, please.
Glenn
Andrew J. Braverman
This is an innapropriate message for these groups. You, sir, are the
looser for speaking as you do and for failing to back up your ideas. If
you had half a brain, you would know that the Mac is far superior to any
Microsoft/Intel based systems, but this point is irrelevant. Please shut
your ass and hold your comments to your self.
R. D. Bridges
In article <546v6v$s...@capella.hkstar.com>, (Here you're !) wrote:
[snip]
> Hey! Adam! Why you sell this machine???
>
> Did you find this is a fucking dog shit and don't want to see it
> again????
>
> Mac people, super block head!!!!!!!
>
> When you buy your first Mac, you become a looser!!!!!!!!!
>
> Eat your machice, Adam, you got what I meant?????
Important trolling tip: use a spell-checker.
I'm telling you, these PC guys, they're definitely sharp.
Simon Windmill
Ah, but the conspiracy-theorist in me thinks that the original poster was
in fact a "deep cover" Mac user operative; the intention is to make PC
users look like horrible little trolls.
Just my 2 cents (and I say that with great joy, now I'm a fully Permanent
Resident Alien ;))
Si.
--
======================================================================
windmill fraser multimedia - http://www.wfmm.com/
Tech: si...@wfmm.com Business: a...@wfmm.com General: off...@wfmm.com
======================================================================
R. D. Bridges <rbri...@wt.net> wrote in article
<rbridges-191...@news.wt.net>...
Suriyun M. Whitehead
Sorry, can we try this again in english, please? "Shit" isn't a language
mac users speak. Try comp.sys.intel.
(sorry about the major crossposting -- I've "ammended" the Followup lign).
Here you're ! () wrote:
:
: Hey! Adam! Why you sell this machine???
:
Robert Eye
It might be a bargain when you consider the duty fees, importer fees,
tarriffs, dealer fees, etc., that US products have slapped on them when
they are sold in Europe. If buying computers is anything like buying
musical instrments, it's cheaper for soemone in the UK to buy from a US
mail order house and pay the duty than to buy from a UK retailer. You
can't go by exchange rate alone.
Regards,
Bob Eye
ha...@birds.eye
> About a year ago, I bought a Syquest EZ Drive-135. I've had several
> problems with it and had to return it to Syquest for repair.
>
> They just sent me a new one. The problem I'm having is that the disk
> icon doesn't automatically show up on my desktop when I insert the
> disk. I have to go open up "Hard Disk Tool Kit and mount the disk
> which then shows up on my desktop. It used to show up automatically on
> my desktop.
>
> Any ideas would be appreciated. Please respond by e-mail.
Using Silverling Lite - Go to SLLite control panel - Then Preferences and
check the box that says
"show icon at startup"
Tim Behal
>
> Sy
John L Grantham
Let us anaylze this poor schmuck PC-user's grammar, shall we?
Here you're ! wrote:
> ad...@codemast.demon.co.uk (Adam) wrote:
> Hey! Adam! Why you sell this machine???
Though this may be correct English in the PC world, we Mac users happen
to know that, one, you should not use so damned many exclamation points!
Properly speaking, this should be:
Hey, Adam. Why are you selling this wonderful machine?
> Did you find this is a fucking dog shit and don't want to see it
> again????
No, no, no, totally wrong. First, one need only have _one_ question mark
at the end of a sentence. Thus:
Have you found a Wintel-PC (which is fucking dog shit) for $100 an
decided you want to have it?
Note that "fucking dog shit" may be taken in two was: one, the PC is
having intercourse with the feces of a canine, which, though
appropriate, is not entirely possible (more likely the other way
around); second, the word "fucking" is taken as a reinforcing
expression, like "total dog shit", which I assume is what you had in
mind.
> Mac people, super block head!!!!!!!
Oh, dear, we seem, to have a problem--with too much: punctuation.
This should be:
PC users: get a fucking life!
> When you buy your first Mac, you become a looser!!!!!!!!!
This, I'm afraid is totally unclear. Do you mean that Mac users become
looser, i.e. more laid back (which is true: Macs are indeed relaxing to
work with); or do you mean that Mac users suddenly transform into an
Appaloosa horse upon making their well-made purchase, which I'm afraid
makes no sense at all; or do you mean that you have lost all contact
with the forward lobes of your cerebral cortex, which I think is most
likely?
> Eat your machice, Adam, you got what I meant?????
What, pray tell, is a "machice"? Perhaps _you_ should try eating some
vitamins--lack of vitamin C can certainly hinder higher brain functions.
It might even allow you to concede the superiority of a Mac.
With the best wishes (and get well soon),
Me
Peter Chow
Hey, Here You're...
Didn't your parents or school teachers ever teach you to be nice to
others? Where's your manners? Please reserve all your personal ugly
thoughts to yourself - this is a Mac-Loving group of people you are
talking to. get off the newsgroup!
Dark...@cold.soul
John L Grantham <jgra...@hildesheim.sgh-net.de> wrote:
>Let us anaylze this poor schmuck PC-user's grammar, shall we?
>Here you're ! wrote:
>> ad...@codemast.demon.co.uk (Adam) wrote:
>> Hey! Adam! Why you sell this machine???
>Though this may be correct English in the PC world, we Mac users happen
>to know that, one, you should not use so damned many exclamation points!
Pardon me, ever so intellectually inclined John L., but 'tis obvious
that although you feel quite bright, "we Mac users" or at least this
Mac user, doesn't know the difference between an exclamation poinr and
a question mark.
Gosh, just makes me wish I were as clever as you seem to be! I could
quite this boring mm coding and get a job at your skill level! I'll
bet you copied "Would you like some fries with that burger, Sir?" to
memory instantly.
>Properly speaking, this should be:
>Hey, Adam. Why are you selling this wonderful machine?
>> Did you find this is a fucking dog shit and don't want to see it
>> again????
>No, no, no, totally wrong. First, one need only have _one_ question mark
>at the end of a sentence. Thus:
I am impressed... several lines later, you have correctly identified
the question mark. This means that Mac users at your level CAN be
trained to solve limited intellectual problems, probably via a
combination of offering a banana for a correct response. an electrical
shock for an incorrect answer.
I, for one, always thought this was possible, I was just to humane to
administer the needed electrical stimulus - I never quite believed the
theory that Mac users didn't have the ability to feel pain. After
all, catfish do.
>Have you found a Wintel-PC (which is fucking dog shit) for $100 an
>decided you want to have it?
>Note that "fucking dog shit" may be taken in two was: one, the PC is
>having intercourse with the feces of a canine, which, though
>appropriate, is not entirely possible (more likely the other way
>around); second, the word "fucking" is taken as a reinforcing
>expression, like "total dog shit", which I assume is what you had in
>mind.
I think that your first sentence here was intended to read "two
ways"...
>> Mac people, super block head!!!!!!!
>Oh, dear, we seem, to have a problem--with too much: punctuation.
>This should be:
>PC users: get a fucking life!
>> When you buy your first Mac, you become a looser!!!!!!!!!
>This, I'm afraid is totally unclear. Do you mean that Mac users become
>looser, i.e. more laid back (which is true: Macs are indeed relaxing to
>work with); or do you mean that Mac users suddenly transform into an
>Appaloosa horse upon making their well-made purchase, which I'm afraid
>makes no sense at all; or do you mean that you have lost all contact
>with the forward lobes of your cerebral cortex, which I think is most
>likely?
>> Eat your machice, Adam, you got what I meant?????
>What, pray tell, is a "machice"? Perhaps _you_ should try eating some
>vitamins--lack of vitamin C can certainly hinder higher brain functions.
>It might even allow you to concede the superiority of a Mac.
>With the best wishes (and get well soon),
>Me
Now that I've responded to your "Macobabble", I should concede that
the post you responded to was possibly the most air-headed post I'd
ever read, and that the poster sincerely deserved your flame. That
said, if you intend to proclaim your mental superiority to the world,
you should be far more capable of backing it up than you seem to be.
Macs are superior machines, if you're an inferior user. I will
concede that point - those who can't learn complicated operations are
just as entitled to computer access as anyone else - Mac made it
possible.
Jerry Kindall
In article <54pc48$v...@news2.tds.net>, Dark...@Cold.Soul wrote:
>Macs are superior machines, if you're an inferior user. I will
>concede that point - those who can't learn complicated operations are
>just as entitled to computer access as anyone else - Mac made it
>possible.
In college I successfully programmed in COBOL, assembler, and DOS/VSE JCL
on an IBM mainframe, as well as in BASIC, C, and Pascal under MS-DOS. I
chose a Mac as my main machine. So don't tell me I CAN'T learn
complicated operations. Explain to me why I would WANT to.
--
Jerry Kindall <kin...@manual.com>
Manual Labor <http://www.manual.com/>
Technical Writing; Internet & WWW Consulting
Kim Dyer
>>Macs are superior machines, if you're an inferior user. I will
>>concede that point - those who can't learn complicated operations are
>>just as entitled to computer access as anyone else - Mac made it
>>possible.
>In college I successfully programmed in COBOL, assembler, and DOS/VSE JCL
>on an IBM mainframe, as well as in BASIC, C, and Pascal under MS-DOS. I
>chose a Mac as my main machine. So don't tell me I CAN'T learn
>complicated operations. Explain to me why I would WANT to.
the machine print out "Hello world" then actually getting any work done.
Every IBM/PC user I've ever talked to gets haughty about "knowing the
machine", and every Mac user I've talked to is more interested in "getting
the job done."
Stan Fornaszewski
Dark...@Cold.Soul wrote:
>
> Macs are superior machines, if you're an inferior user. I will
> concede that point - those who can't learn complicated operations are
> just as entitled to computer access as anyone else - Mac made it
> possible.
That's exactly why Microsoft Corp. has tried to copy the Macintosh
interface. That's exactly why Microsoft Windows is the most sold PC
application in the world!
We (Mac owners) use our Macintosh Computers to do things.
We tell our computers what to do.
We are the Users. We are the Masters.
Not the other way around.
PC owners are the slave. You have to first spend lots of time learning
complicated operations and figuring out how to tell your PC to do
something. Then, you have to tell the PC to do it. Then, after you've
done all the work, the PC will either do it, or crash.
I, a Macintosh master, don't have to cloud my mind with learning
complicated operations. I have a Mac to do that for me. This give's me
more time to do more important things in life, like time with my family,
going to a concert, socializing with friends, making more money, or
making love again with the one I love.
The PC user, on the other hand, will spend all their free time, reading
manuals, finding tech bulletins, running to Walmart, or holding the
telephone with some 3rd party manufacturer. (PC user, alias slave: I'll
be up there in a minute honey. I'm trying to connect my hard drive..).
Stan
Sent via voice command, by:
Josh, The Apple Macintosh Computer
PS- My sincere apologies to the PC world. You should have bought a Super
Nintendo.
Steve and Philippa Howe
In article <543hu7$7...@news.istar.ca>, mkt...@inforamp.net (David Taylor)
wrote:
> ad...@codemast.demon.co.uk (Adam) wrote:
>
> >#>Yes free software including Photoshop 3, and Illustrator 6 if you
> >#>kindly take my Power Mac off my hands. System includes :
> >#>
> >#>Power Mac 8100/100 CD 16Mb 1Gb
> >#>17" Trinitron monitor and extended keyboard
> >#>Wacom A5 graphics tablet
> >#>28,800 Supra Express modem
> >#>A4 Hewlett Packard 850c Deskjet printer.
> >#>Iomega Zip Drive
> >#>
> >#>Offers around £2500. I live near Leamington Spa Warwickshire, England.
> >#>You can E-mail me on : ad...@codemast.demon.co.uk.
> >#>
> >#>Regards
> >#>
> >#>Adam
>
> I believe that we all get the point, Adam -- you have a computer to
> sell.
>
> BTW, the equivalent of $ 5,000.00 for this (used) configuration plus
> shipping and handling is not exactly a bargain!
Yeah, this guy really wants shut of that Mac! What's up with it? (
Actually, I'd love it myself, but not for that kind of money...) Steve
--
The Black and White Picture Place,
1, Rufus Court Row, Abbey Green,
Northgate St, Chester CH1 2JH UK
know...@enterprise.net
http:/www.bwpics.co.uk
http://homepages.enterprise.net
Brian Halbrook
Dark...@Cold.Soul wrote:
>
> Macs are superior machines, if you're an inferior user. I will
> concede that point - those who can't learn complicated operations are
> just as entitled to computer access as anyone else - Mac made it
> possible.
Ah yes, I have always loved the supreme logic behind this assertion. PCs
are more difficult to use, to get working, to configure - require more
user-hours to accomplish a task due to the inefficient operating
system... so... "Hell, dey must be bedder compooters".
The logic of the masses.
Be free, be creative, be radical...MacOS.
Brian
Karl Pollak
kin...@manual.com (Jerry Kindall) wrote:
>In college I successfully programmed in COBOL, assembler, and DOS/VSE JCL
>on an IBM mainframe, as well as in BASIC, C, and Pascal under MS-DOS. I
>chose a Mac as my main machine. So don't tell me I CAN'T learn
>In article <54pc48$v...@news2.tds.net>, Dark...@Cold.Soul wrote:
>>Macs are superior machines, if you're an inferior user. I will
>>concede that point - those who can't learn complicated operations are
>>just as entitled to computer access as anyone else - Mac made it
>>possible.
Can you take your silly juvenile arguments someplace else?
This crap nothing to do with anything except your pathetic egos.
Karl Pollak <kpo...@portal.ca>
Richmond, British Columbia
THOR KOTTELIN
In article <rbridges-191...@news.wt.net>
rbri...@wt.net (R D BRIDGES) writes:
R > Newsgroups: uk.adverts.computer,tor.forsale.computers,su.computers.m
R > sale.computers.mac-specific.systems,comp.sys.mac.wanted,comp.sys.mac
R > isc,comp.sys.mac.graphics,comp.multimedia,comp.graphics.apps.photosh
R > phics.apps.pagemaker,ba.market.computer,ba.market.computers,alt.grap
R > sign.graphics,alt.design.product
R > Important trolling tip: use a spell-checker.
R >
R > I'm telling you, these PC guys, they're definitely sharp.
Please take your stupid flame war somewhere else.
--
thor.k...@pcb.compart.fi tea...@helsinki.fi
http://mediascript.teak.fi/opisk.html
PGP fingerprint: 07 D6 E8 6E 56 B1 FC 2A 31 25 20 23 F2 94 52 38
PGP public key available from key servers
Pager: + 358 480023073 insecure usage BBS: + 358 9 7539949
Douglas Smith
Stan Fornaszewski wrote:
>
> Dark...@Cold.Soul wrote:
>
> PC owners are the slave. You have to first spend lots of time learning
> complicated operations and figuring out how to tell your PC to do
> something. Then, you have to tell the PC to do it. Then, after you've
> done all the work, the PC will either do it, or crash.
>
> I, a Macintosh master,
it crashes,
...blah, blah, blah...
it crashes
>making more money, or
it crashes,
> making love again with the one I love.
then it crashes.
> The PC user, on the other hand, will spend all their free time, reading
> manuals, finding tech bulletins, running to Walmart, or holding the
> telephone with some 3rd party manufacturer. (PC user, alias slave:
> I'll be up there in a minute honey. I'm trying to connect my hard drive..).
And then to the Apple site so I can download and install the newest
version of the OS and when that doesn't work I can start all over
installing the system, trouble shooting all my extensions, and when that
doesn't work, I can format the drive, reinstall the system and all my
apps and ... that darn back up is around here somewhere...
you go on holidays honey, I'll be up in a week. Maybe.
A tired support specialist.
Doug
Ben Holiday
What you want to do is set the prefs to "Load drivers at startup." This
will load the driver for the SCSI bus you have asigned to the EZ. Then,
whenever you insert an EZ cart, it will mount automatically!
Enjoy
Bane
Finn Jorgensen
The fool hwo started this thread chose to post it in a large number of
groups, so as to start a flamewar.
The following groups are involved :
uk.adverts.computer,
tor.forsale.computers,
su.computers.mac,
misc.forsale.computers.mac-specific.systems,
comp.sys.mac.wanted,
comp.sys.mac.hardware.misc,
comp.sys.mac.graphics,
comp.multimedia,
comp.graphics.apps.photoshop,
comp.graphics.apps.pagemaker,
ba.market.computer,
ba.market.computers,
alt.graphics,
alt.design.graphics,
alt.design.product
If this discussion belongs somewhere, may I suggest the "advocacy" groups,
rather than the abovementioned.
Finn
--
Finn Bo Jorgensen, E-Mail : Finn.jo...@irisa.fr
IFSIC, bureau D268, Universite de Rennes I, Campus de Beaulieu
35042 RENNES CEDEX, FRANCE Tel : (33) 2 99 84 72 01
Andrew Maizels
Brian Halbrook wrote:
>
> Dark...@Cold.Soul wrote:
>
> >
> > Macs are superior machines, if you're an inferior user. I will
> > concede that point - those who can't learn complicated operations are
> > just as entitled to computer access as anyone else - Mac made it
> > possible.
>
> are more difficult to use, to get working, to configure - require more
> user-hours to accomplish a task due to the inefficient operating
> system... so... "Hell, dey must be bedder compooters".
>
> The logic of the masses.
>
> Be free, be creative, be radical...MacOS.
>
> Brian
Nonononononono!
Be free, be creative, be radical...BeOS!
^^^^
Hahahaha!
Regards,
Treacle th' Cat
Karateka
Stan Fornaszewski wrote:
>
> Dark...@Cold.Soul wrote:
> >
> > Macs are superior machines, if you're an inferior user. I will
> > concede that point - those who can't learn complicated operations are
> > just as entitled to computer access as anyone else - Mac made it
> > possible.
>
> interface.
WELL, Apple stole the OS from ATARI so what's your point
> I, a Macintosh master, don't have to cloud my mind with learning
> complicated operations. I have a Mac to do that for me. This give's me
> more time to do more important things in life, like time with my family,
> going to a concert, socializing with friends, making more money, or
> making love again with the one I love.
>
> The PC user, on the other hand, will spend all their free time, reading
> manuals ...
> Stan
> Sent via voice command, by:
> Josh, The Apple Macintosh Computer
>
> PS- My sincere apologies to the PC world. You should have bought a Super Nintendo. <-- Looks like even very low IQ people can use Mac,
good for you.
You really are brainwashed people. Do you really think that PC users
spend their time fiddling with their computers to make everything work?
Perhaps beginners do.
I speak on behalf of us, the experienced PC users, and we find PC much
more productive and also entertaining than you, MAC users, will ever be
able to. Reason? We have 100x more software available for PC then you do
for Mac, ie. that makes us more productive.
Vlad
Karl Anthony Smeltzer
>You really are brainwashed people. Do you really think that PC users
>spend their time fiddling with their computers to make everything work?
>Perhaps beginners do.
>I speak on behalf of us, the experienced PC users, and we find PC much
>more productive and also entertaining than you, MAC users, will ever be
>able to. Reason? We have 100x more software available for PC then you do
>for Mac, ie. that makes us more productive.
>
>Vlad
hmmmm, I never knew there was a coorelation between the amount of
software on a machine and the productivity of a person using that
machine. Maybe I should just run out and buy every piece of Microslof
crap so my productivity slows down even more.
If productivity lies with how many programs one is able to buy, and then
I quess Macs are more productive seeing that the percentages fall in the
the fact that the Mac user buys more software than the PC user. Who
cares if there are fifty different types of the same program, I still
won't use them if they're horrible.
seriously though, shouldn't people use what ever platform they are more
productive on and more comfortable working on? end of story...
--karl
J. Richard Naigles
tell me more about this, please
Travis Anton
In article <3273E3...@undergrad.math.uwaterloo.ca>
Karateka <vjan...@undergrad.math.uwaterloo.ca> writes:
> You really are brainwashed people. Do you really think that PC users
> spend their time fiddling with their computers to make everything work?
Nope, sure don't think that. It's been my experience that most of them
just leave it broken or have to pay someone else to fix it.
You do realize that if PCs sudenly became as easy to use as Macs it
would cause massive unemployment.
> Perhaps beginners do.
> I speak on behalf of us, the experienced PC users, and we find PC much
> more productive and also entertaining than you, MAC users, will ever be
> able to.
I'm happy a pig in shit with all our Macs. I'm tolerant of the PC's but
then agian our PC boxes run LINUX, which even though it has the user
friendlines of a rabid pit bull I can respect it.
>Reason? We have 100x more software available for PC then you do
> for Mac, ie. that makes us more productive.
Really? If I had to use hundreds of applications to be more productive,
I'd never get a damned thing done.
Maybe I can't get "Space Goo Shoot-out", "Sock Quest", or the "2001
Garden Slugs" refrence CD but, since I don't have to use hundreds of
applications to be more productive and am actually getting lots of work
done I don't think I'll miss them.
Jim Hardiman
Douglas Smith wrote:
>
> Stan Fornaszewski wrote:
> >
> > Dark...@Cold.Soul wrote:
> >
> > complicated operations and figuring out how to tell your PC to do
> > something. Then, you have to tell the PC to do it. Then, after you've
> > done all the work, the PC will either do it, or crash.
> >
> > I, a Macintosh master,
>
> it crashes,
>
> ...blah, blah, blah...
>
> it crashes
>
> >making more money, or
>
> it crashes,
>
>
>
> > The PC user, on the other hand, will spend all their free time, reading
> > telephone with some 3rd party manufacturer. (PC user, alias slave:
> > I'll be up there in a minute honey. I'm trying to connect my hard drive..).
>
> And then to the Apple site so I can download and install the newest
> version of the OS and when that doesn't work I can start all over
> installing the system, trouble shooting all my extensions, and when that
> doesn't work, I can format the drive, reinstall the system and all my
> apps and ... that darn back up is around here somewhere...
>
> you go on holidays honey, I'll be up in a week. Maybe.
>
> A tired support specialist.
>
> Doug
A tired support specialist?
You're kidding, right? I've been in the support field for three years
now, which doesn't qualify me for "old fart" status, but I have been
around the block. I have noted that the shortest calls I've had to take
and easiest questions I have to answer are from Mac users. On the
average, my calls take 25%-30% of a PC related call.
(yes, I use PC's. I have a DOS card in my 7100/66. It's still slow and a
pain in the ass, and spends most of the time disabled.)
Jim "a bored tech specialist" Hardiman
Dark...@cold.soul
Stan Fornaszewski <drum...@Calvin.spiff.net> wrote:
>Dark...@Cold.Soul wrote:
>>
>> Macs are superior machines, if you're an inferior user. I will
>> concede that point - those who can't learn complicated operations are
>> just as entitled to computer access as anyone else - Mac made it
>> possible.
>That's exactly why Microsoft Corp. has tried to copy the Macintosh
>interface. That's exactly why Microsoft Windows is the most sold PC
>application in the world!
One might note (merely in passing, mind you) that as you say, Micro-
soft Windows is the single most purchased software in the world.
And that as far as I know, it is a Pc package...
>We (Mac owners) use our Macintosh Computers to do things.
>We tell our computers what to do.
>We are the Users. We are the Masters.
>Not the other way around.
>PC owners are the slave. You have to first spend lots of time learning
>complicated operations and figuring out how to tell your PC to do
>something. Then, you have to tell the PC to do it. Then, after you've
>done all the work, the PC will either do it, or crash.
>I, a Macintosh master, don't have to cloud my mind with learning
>complicated operations. I have a Mac to do that for me. This give's me
>more time to do more important things in life, like time with my family,
>going to a concert, socializing with friends, making more money, or
>making love again with the one I love.
>The PC user, on the other hand, will spend all their free time, reading
>manuals, finding tech bulletins, running to Walmart, or holding the
>telephone with some 3rd party manufacturer. (PC user, alias slave: I'll
>be up there in a minute honey. I'm trying to connect my hard drive..).
>Stan
Paul Grammens
Basje wrote:
>
> -sigh-
>
> Can't we stop this conversation about MAcs versus PCs.
> I mean, there are advantages for Macs as well for PCs, or whatever
> computersystem.
Right. I like to call this "computer racism" because it has the same
overtones of tribalism. I'm interested in the advantages and
disadvantages of each platform, but spare me the spittle spraying and
bulging eyes of the true believers. Save that sort of thing for Raiders
vs 49'ers or Ford vs Chevy...
-Paul
Paul Grammens
Dave
b.b.b...@student.utwente.nl wrote:
> Can't we stop this conversation about MAcs versus PCs.
[huge snip]
Sure. One way would be not to start a **NEW** thread about it as you just
did and spam it across 15 completely irrelivant newsgroups.
Richard V
> You really are brainwashed people. Do you really think that PC users
> spend their time fiddling with their computers to make everything work?
> I speak on behalf of us, the experienced PC users, and we find PC much
> more productive and also entertaining than you, MAC users, will ever be
> for Mac, ie. that makes us more productive.
Funny, the last time I checked the only types of software that is "100x" more available for
PC's is games. I don't remember games being all that productive. When is the last time you
saw Silicon Graphics or Micro Sun Work Station or Unix software in your local computer
store, and yet, these systems seem to survive (and very well I might add).
Anything that is considered high end and truly productive is realeased on virtually all
formats. If it is not, there is already a software package for the Mac that does the job
(and often does it better).
--
Richard Vicentino
"Images Carry Their Own Reality"
r...@interlog.com
http://www.interlog.com/~rsv
buddy
> That's exactly why Microsoft Corp. has tried to copy the Macintosh
> interface. That's exactly why Microsoft Windows is the most sold PC
> application in the world!
>
> We tell our computers what to do.
> We are the Users. We are the Masters.
> Not the other way around.
>
want me to touch it or something. "This is a mac you don't need to tweek
me! eh! I'm such a better computer, just leave my system alone!" That's
what macs say to me when I try to use 'em. Slavery anyone?
>
> PC owners are the slave. You have to first spend lots of time learning
> complicated operations and figuring out how to tell your PC to do
> something. Then, you have to tell the PC to do it. Then, after you've
> done all the work, the PC will either do it, or crash.
>
Hell, I'm pretty darn good at crashing Macs, too. You could call me the
crash master(irony). Shit man all the 'easy' things start to piss me off
so when I try to remove them the mac says, "wait those are like good or
something. We don't want idiots to fuck me up do we?" Damn, idiots won't
be using my computer, so get rid of the shit(sure, you can call me an
idiot if you want, but you wouldn't have anything to base it on.).
>
> I, a Macintosh master, don't have to cloud my mind with learning
Wow! that says a lot. Mac master? hehe
> complicated operations. I have a Mac to do that for me. This give's me
> more time to do more important things in life, like time with my family,
> going to a concert, socializing with friends, making more money, or
> making love again with the one I love.
>
> The PC user, on the other hand, will spend all their free time, reading
> manuals, finding tech bulletins, running to Walmart, or holding the
> telephone with some 3rd party manufacturer. (PC user, alias slave: I'll
> be up there in a minute honey. I'm trying to connect my hard drive..).
Well, I enjoy it. Gets you more up close and personal with your own
machine. Macs are for people that don't care about what they're machine
does. They just do it. Shows a lot about the intelligence of the mac
user. The Nike slogan was intended to be a pun, because the mac user
could be easily compared as a human with the intelligence level of the
average football player.
>
> Stan
Stan, huh? You ever have problems spelling that? "Sant or Stna...Stan!
that's it! All right!"
> Sent via voice command, by:
> Josh, The Apple Macintosh Computer
You have a fixation on four letter words? Josh!
>
> PS- My sincere apologies to the PC world. You should have bought a Super
> Nintendo.
Hehe! Got one of those two! Macintosh probably was smart trying to copy
it!
Live long and prosper,
- 'Coffee'
--
"Hey, I didn't write it! It was...some other guy! Yeah, that's it! Some
other guy."
http://members.aol.com/xbaconbitz/dragons.html
David Laird
Basje wrote:
>
> -sigh-
>
> Can't we stop this conversation about MAcs versus PCs.
> computersystem.
> ones that prefer to use a MAC, has choosen for it 'cause a MAC unleashes
> the best out of it for them,...and VICE VERSA"
I for one agree! I like my Mac, but would not begrudge anyone's choice of
computer. I also like my pickup and don't care if anyone else doesn't. A
car has a more comfortable seating arrangement, but can't haul a desk.
The choice of any tool is best left to the desires of the person who will use
it day after day.
If anyone chooses one system over another, it's because they felt it suits
thier particular need.
David Laird
AZSTARNET Tech. Support
Basje
-sigh-
Can't we stop this conversation about MAcs versus PCs.
I mean, there are advantages for Macs as well for PCs, or whatever
computersystem.
I think I speak for all users of all kind of computers, when I say :"The
ones that prefer to use a MAC, has choosen for it 'cause a MAC unleashes
the best out of it for them,...and VICE VERSA"
So,.. this topic will never end as long as we start to discuss about
what advantages one computer has above the other one. Each person has
choosen for his/her own system, 'cause (s)he feels it will fullfill
their own wishes the best on a certain machine. Certain "machines" will
have a better performance with "certain" applications than on other
machines... (well, as long as they also exist for the other
machines..(Be carefull, there's a contradiction in this bracketed
statement))
Ofcourse, people like to tell why they like THEIR specific "machine",
but this is correlated to their (subjective?) wishes of what they want
to perform with a "computer".
Okay,.. I hope both groups will be satisfied with this letter, and see
the (non)sense of comparing different systems with each other, as long
as people choose their system based on their needs -which will be done
on a subjective way-. I mean, we choose a system like:
1) What does the "future-user" want to do for work/a job ? (well,.. on
a computer / machine / system, that is..)
2a) Does the "future-user" have enough information about all computers /
machines / systems, which makes him/her possible to make a right/good
decision?
2b) On what does the "future-user" have the best/detailed information,
so (s)he can make a fair decision..
3) And finally, what computer / machine / system will give him/her the
best performance to do the best in accordance with the available
programs on the market and his/her budget....
Concluding, I noticed the following -while following these
conversations- :
Each person bought a system on which they feel very comfortable to work
with. And let us be honest, who would like to tell others that they've
bought a "shitty" computer/machine/system for their money (no matter if
it was expensive or not, which is subjective again. (Refering to the
available budget)) ? Don't we all prefer to tell others that we bought
the best computer / machine / system ? The problem is, that we forget to
mention,.. "The best computer / machine / system to our needs (or
budget). If the budget was not a major problem for all users, we all
would have a "super-computer" which can handle all programs we need at
top-speed. (Only, than we would complain again, 'cause each individual
prefers to have a better/faster machine than other users. We prefer
competition, (eh ?) which makes us different of others...)
N.B. "computer/machine/system" can be read as MAC, PC, Silicon Graphics,
Cray, whatever...
N.B. While using "future-user" I refer to someone who is planning to buy
a "computer / machine / system" in the near future...
N.B. Okay,. for some people the budget is not relevant, and they're the
lucky ones, which can choose whatever they want to....
So,.. with this letter I hope we all can agree and stop "flaming" each
other about the system(s) others use..
Finally,...please, don't respond to this letter, 'cause in case you do,
the conversation will never end..... In last case (want to respond to
this letter), I think it'll be better to see this letter as a/my failure
of trying to get 2 groups together and understand each other, but please
still try not to respond to this letter and keep on "flaming" other
users.....
Greatings to all groups of computer-users (-sigh- do I need to specify
each group ? ;>> )
Bernard B. Boelens
P.S. Eheheh,.. is there a company that would like me to offer a free
Cray/Silicon Graphics/MAC and P+ to test the things out for a real
comparision ?
<== Stress !?!?! WHAT stress ?!?! I don't have the time for that ! ==>
< http://wit393101.student.utwente.nl/~basje >
Steve Lapommeray
Brian Halbrook wrote:
>
> Dark...@Cold.Soul wrote:
>
> >
> > Macs are superior machines, if you're an inferior user. I will
> > concede that point - those who can't learn complicated operations are
> > just as entitled to computer access as anyone else - Mac made it
> > possible.
>
> are more difficult to use, to get working, to configure - require more
> user-hours to accomplish a task due to the inefficient operating
> system... so... "Hell, dey must be bedder compooters".
>
> The logic of the masses.
>
> Be free, be creative, be radical...MacOS.
>
> Brian
Yah! You tell 'em Brian!!! I heartily agree. Only a dork wastes time
that could be spent on vreative effort to futz with a stupid machine.
Amy
Louis M. Pecora
> I also like my pickup and don't care if anyone else doesn't. A
> car has a more comfortable seating arrangement, but can't haul a desk.
> The choice of any tool is best left to the desires of the person who will use
> it day after day.
Yeah, but if computer companies made cars and trucks, they would crash
several times a day. And rebooting on the interstate is tough!
I know that makes no sense, but it's been a long day and I just had to say
it. :-)
--
Louis M. Pecora
pec...@zoltar.nrl.navy.mil
== My views and opinions are not those of the U.S. Navy. ==
--------------------------------------------------------------------
* Check out the home page for the 4th Experimental Chaos Conference!
http://natasha.umsl.edu/Exp_Chaos4
---------------------------------------------------------------------
james
tra...@boxtopsoft.com (Travis Anton) wrote:
>In article <3273E3...@undergrad.math.uwaterloo.ca>
>Karateka <vjan...@undergrad.math.uwaterloo.ca> writes:
>Nope, sure don't think that. It's been my experience that most of them
>just leave it broken or have to pay someone else to fix it.
Thats not the case at all.. Yes pc's do have a higher chance of
breaking down. BUT thats because pc's have a MUCH greater flexibility
on hardware and software. (sometimes more headache then productivity.)
>You do realize that if PCs sudenly became as easy to use as Macs it
>would cause massive unemployment.
Not true. in fact pc's are getting there. right now its not a case of
pc or mac. you now hve other platforms. system vers on macs,
dos,windows, windows95, windows NT, Linux, BSD, OS/2, etc.
>> Perhaps beginners do.
>> I speak on behalf of us, the experienced PC users, and we find PC much
>> more productive and also entertaining than you, MAC users, will ever be
>> able to.
Sorry to bust another pc person. but I find macs have there plus's and
so do pc's. I prefer the pc for its programing and flexibility.
>I'm happy a pig in shit with all our Macs. I'm tolerant of the PC's but
>then agian our PC boxes run LINUX, which even though it has the user
>friendlines of a rabid pit bull I can respect it.
Do you relize how much you can do with Linux??? WAY more then pc or
macs!! do you relize without unix the newsgroups would be just bout
NON-EXISTANT? also www, gopher, telnet, ftp. (basicly whole internet)
I also run linux on a seperate machine just for that fact. try hooking
up a database server for thousands of clients on a mac... Its possible
but it would lag down so fast. Just because macs are made as "USER
FRIENDLY ENVIORMENTS" just like windows
>>Reason? We have 100x more software available for PC then you do
>> for Mac, ie. that makes us more productive.
True
>Really? If I had to use hundreds of applications to be more productive,
>I'd never get a damned thing done.
hehe, I have to agree a LITTLE. but ALOT of software on the macs are
also avilible on windows/95...
>Maybe I can't get "Space Goo Shoot-out", "Sock Quest", or the "2001
>Garden Slugs" refrence CD but, since I don't have to use hundreds of
>applications to be more productive and am actually getting lots of work
>done I don't think I'll miss them.
Try some REAL programs. like 3dstudio, 3dstudiomax, REAL web server
software, Visul C++, BC++, FX-pro, real3D,visual basic... The list
goes on.
Anyways, back to buying parts. :)
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Oh well, can't think of anything to say. :(
other then my "a" key is sticking so ignore the typeing
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Tzuen-Rong Tzeng
> > You really are brainwashed people. Do you really think that PC users
> > spend their time fiddling with their computers to make everything work?
> > Perhaps beginners do.
> > I speak on behalf of us, the experienced PC users, and we find PC much
> > more productive and also entertaining than you, MAC users, will ever be
> > able to. Reason? We have 100x more software available for PC then you do
> > for Mac, ie. that makes us more productive.
I find this line of reasoning difficult to accept. I don't need 100 word
processors, just one good enough for my need. This should be true for most
PC and Mac users. I do use both Mac and PC. I just prefer Mac. I've not
heard that BMW is going out of business because they share only 1% of the
market. Why do people choose BMW?
Jeremy
> Funny, the last time I checked the only types of software that is "100x"
more available for
> PC's is games. I don't remember games being all that productive. When is
the last time you
> saw Silicon Graphics or Micro Sun Work Station or Unix software in your
local computer
> store, and yet, these systems seem to survive (and very well I might add).
> Anything that is considered high end and truly productive is realeased
on virtually all
> formats. If it is not, there is already a software package for the Mac
that does the job
> (and often does it better).
> --
> Richard Vicentino
> "Images Carry Their Own Reality"
> r...@interlog.com
> http://www.interlog.com/~rsv
--
Tzuen-Rong Jeremy Tzeng ttz...@hubcap.clemson.edu
Dept. of Microbiology
Clemson University TEL: (864) 656-5431
124 Long Hall FAX: (864) 656-1127
Clemson, SC 29634-1909
THOR KOTTELIN
In article <326E2C...@hildesheim.sgh-net.de>
jgra...@hildesheim.sgh-net.de (JOHN L GRANTHAM) writes:
JL> Newsgroups: uk.adverts.computer,tor.forsale.computers,su.computers.m
JL> sale.computers.mac-specific.systems,comp.sys.mac.wanted,comp.sys.mac
JL> isc,comp.sys.mac.graphics,comp.multimedia,comp.graphics.apps.photosh
JL> phics.apps.pagemaker,ba.market.computer,ba.market.computers,alt.grap
JL> sign.graphics,alt.design.product
JL> Let us anaylze this poor schmuck PC-user's grammar, shall we?
JL> PC users: get a fucking life!
You probably should refrain from picking on other
users' grammar, as your own spelling is faulty.
Take your stupid flame war and your Mac ads out of
comp.multimedia. This isn't the place for them.
--
thor.k...@pcb.compart.fi
Chris Cox
In article <0mR0vzu00...@andrew.cmu.edu>, Karl Anthony Smeltzer
<ks...@andrew.cmu.edu> wrote:
> >You really are brainwashed people. Do you really think that PC users
> >spend their time fiddling with their computers to make everything work?
> >Perhaps beginners do.
> >I speak on behalf of us, the experienced PC users, and we find PC much
> >more productive and also entertaining than you, MAC users, will ever be
> >able to. Reason? We have 100x more software available for PC then you do
> >for Mac, ie. that makes us more productive.
> >
> >Vlad
>
If the amount of software available makes a computer more productive, then
I guess the AppleII is 10x more productive than a PC, and a C64 is still
2x more productive than a PC.
Gee, guess I'll have to dump my 604/225 machine and my P6/200 machine and
go back to a 6502/1 machine.
Chris
--
Opinions expressed herein do not reflect those of my employer.
Blah, blah, blah, so-on and so-forth, yackety schmackety......
amybcoy
Patrick Calahan
I hate to get into these things, but what the heck.
> > That's exactly why Microsoft Corp. has tried to copy the Macintosh
> > interface.
>
> WELL, Apple stole the OS from ATARI so what's your point
The desktop metaphor (I assume this is what you mean when you say "OS")
was invented by Xerox. Who copied whom is indeed a moot point, but you
should at least get your facts straight.
> You really are brainwashed people. Do you really think that PC users
> spend their time fiddling with their computers to make everything work?
Yes, actually I do. I think a lot of them get off on it. Makes them feel
like they're power users or something, I guess - "Stupid Mac users don't
even know how to edit their CONFIG.SYS file." To each his own, but that's
not mine. With Windows, you're stuck with endless tweaking whether you
like it or not.
Case in point: I contracted at Intel for most of last year. Most people
there hate Windows. 100's of hours were wasted every week in my department
alone just dealing with Windows-related bullshit. When I started, they
gave me a week just to 'set up my machine.' This was standard policy for
new hires! I can't imagine somebody spending more than a few hours making
a Mac feel comfortable.
> Perhaps beginners do.
Nobody working at Intel is a beginner.
I know my way around a Windows box reasonably well, and I'm scared to
death every time I have to install some new piece of hardware or
software. How many manuals am I going to have to dig through to make it
work? What are the odds that I'm going to run into a mysterious hardware
conflict? Plug & pray all the way, baby.
> I speak on behalf of us, the experienced PC users, and we find PC much
> more productive and also entertaining than you, MAC users, will ever be
> able to. Reason? We have 100x more software available for PC then you do
> for Mac, ie. that makes us more productive.
Ok, well I hope you have fun being extra productive with your 30 word
processors, most of which suck anyway. This is probably the lamest of the
many tired arguments about how great Windows is. You don't need lots of
software, you need good software.
Some argue that games are an exception, but if you go through more than 4
or 5 games a year then you should probably spend more time shopping for a
life anyway.
The only thing superior about Windows is the marketing guile of the
company behind it. Makes me wonder who's brainwashed.
-p
--
Patrick Calahan pc...@agora.rdrop.com
Portland, Oregon http://www.rdrop.com/~pcal
Dark...@cold.soul
amybcoy <amy...@imp2.inre.asu.edu> wrote:
Only a dork wastes time that could be spent impressing people with her
limited intellect (proving the airhead theory) having to look up
simple words like "creative" in that nasty ol' websters...
Or perhaps it wasn't an error, but a "Mac-ism"? One sits about
batting ones eyes, shaking ones empty head, and crooning the
air-artista manta - "I'm so vreative, I'm so vreative"
After awhile, one believes it - at which point I'm sure it comes
true...
Keep on battin' and shaking, you're no doubt well on your way to true
vreativity!
>Amy
_____
amybcoy wrote:
> Yah! You tell 'em Brian!!! I heartily agree. Only a dork wastes time
> that could be spent on vreative effort to futz with a stupid machine.
> Amy
Only a DORK???
Millions of penises world wide sitting at thier PC's???
Picture that!
I presume then that you are not a dork. Does that make you a CUN...
Or mearly a juve?
Amy please don't waste bandwidth.
Dave
Karateka <vjan...@undergrad.math.uwaterloo.ca> wrote:
> You really are brainwashed people. Do you really think that PC users
> spend their time fiddling with their computers to make everything work?
No, not all the time, just every time you ever try to install anything or
change even the slightest thing in your configuration.
Icon
> > You really are brainwashed people. Do you really think that PC users
> > spend their time fiddling with their computers to make everything work?
>
> No, not all the time, just every time you ever try to install anything or
> change even the slightest thing in your configuration.
Actually, I think that PC owners tend to be new to the computer thing. If
for no other reason than PC marketing is thicker out there. Don't hear much
about Mac or Apple in general. Now, before you ask, I'm a PC user but have
recently become very aware of the advantages of the new PowerPC Clones from
PowerComputing.
In debate to your statement above, I don't have to fiddle with my computer
everytime I use my PC ( installing software and the like ) because I bought
a good PC to start with. In my honest opinion, if you bought a Packard Bell
because it was the cheapest product in the market place at the time, then
you've asked for all the headache. Now I realize that how much you spend on
a product does not always justify it's worth but in the computer field I
believe it does. Want a cheap computer? Your really asking for problem
hardware. Entry level equipment just isn't reliable and usually not all
that compatible.
I've got friends with Macs. They have system crashed just like us PC users.
Anyone who uses a Mac and can't say the same...your not using it. Period.
My 2 cents worth,
Icon
Keith Clark
Doug wrote:
> I've found that the best way to beat the whole PC vs MAC controversy was
> to join them. I've installed a 100 mz Pentium board in my 7600/120. On the
> PC side I'm running Autocad R13 on Windows 95. On the MAC side I have all
> of my favorite graphics applications along with Autocad R12. The setup can be
> configured with two monitors, one for the MAC and one for the PC. While I have
> something processing on my MAC, I can switch to the PC with a keystroke and
> work on my cad drawings. The future in one box.
>
> Doug
With what Apple charges for PC cards it probably would've been cheaper
to get a dual Pentium Pro box.
My penny's worth.
KC
Doug
David Laird <dla...@azstarnet.com> wrote:
>Basje wrote:
>>
>> -sigh-
>>
>> Can't we stop this conversation about MAcs versus PCs.
>> I mean, there are advantages for Macs as well for PCs, or whatever
>> computersystem.
>> I think I speak for all users of all kind of computers, when I say :"The
>> ones that prefer to use a MAC, has choosen for it 'cause a MAC unleashes
>> the best out of it for them,...and VICE VERSA"
>
>The choice of any tool is best left to the desires of the person who will use
>it day after day.
>
>thier particular need.
>
>David Laird
>AZSTARNET Tech. Support
>
>
I've found that the best way to beat the whole PC vs MAC controversy was
Casey Wilson
After this diatribe from ????
>> You really are brainwashed people. Do you really think that PC users
>> spend their time fiddling with their computers to make everything work?
>> Perhaps beginners do.
>> I speak on behalf of us, the experienced PC users, and we find PC much
>> more productive and also entertaining than you, MAC users, will ever be
>> able to. Reason? We have 100x more software available for PC then you do
>> for Mac, ie. that makes us more productive.
Richard V <r...@interlog.com> wrote:
>Funny, the last time I checked the only types of software that is "100x" more available for
>PC's is games. I don't remember games being all that productive. When is the last time you
>saw Silicon Graphics or Micro Sun Work Station or Unix software in your local computer
>store, and yet, these systems seem to survive (and very well I might add).
> Anything that is considered high end and truly productive is realeased on virtually all
>formats. If it is not, there is already a software package for the Mac that does the job
>(and often does it better).
Richard, you couldn't have put it better! ALL "productive" software
is made for multiple platforms.
I use a PC because it was what I started with and I'm comfortable
with it. I can think of a couple of rationales on either side, but
certainly nothing as stupid as "100X more productive."
Good on ya!
Casey Wilson
Doug
Keith Clark <kcl...@spiritone.com> wrote:
>Doug wrote:
>> I've found that the best way to beat the whole PC vs MAC controversy was
>> to join them. I've installed a 100 mz Pentium board in my 7600/120. On the
>> PC side I'm running Autocad R13 on Windows 95. On the MAC side I have all
>> of my favorite graphics applications along with Autocad R12. The setup can be
>> configured with two monitors, one for the MAC and one for the PC. While I have
>> something processing on my MAC, I can switch to the PC with a keystroke and
>> work on my cad drawings. The future in one box.
>>
>> Doug
>
>
>to get a dual Pentium Pro box.
>
>My penny's worth.
>
>KC
Fine, if that's your pleasure. You can do that and network them together. I find
it's a lot easier to work on one machine. The Pentium card with 64mb ram came to
less than $1500. Also, I don't have an extra computer setup cluttering my workspace.
Doug
David Weeks
With what Apple charges for PC cards it probably would've been cheaper
>to get a dual Pentium Pro box.
>
>My penny's worth.
>
>KC
My Pentium card for my PowerCenter 150 was $1005. I doubt you can get a
dual Pentium Pro for that.
I got the card for several reasons...
1) I DON'T WANT another computer on my desk. I don't have the space, even
if I wanted another box.
2) I don't want to have all the hassles of registration cards, another
manufacturer to deal with, ad nauseum.
3) I used to use SoftWindows (and liked it), but my current project needs
Pentium speed.
4) I already have a monitor, printer, etc, and don't want to have to get
PC compatible ones. The Apple card does all the translation.
I'm happy with it....
David
Scott Pallas
I am productive on both my power mac 8500 and my dell 486/100 with
windows 95. I find each has it's place for my work.
Use what you want to use -or-
Use what works best for you.
Enough with the mac vs pc *bs*.
Russell Dovey
MacOS.
It's hard to configure, keeps crashing, has numerous errors, and I still
can't get Internet Explorer or Netscape 32-bit to work. AARGH.
--
"There will be no peace, as long as Kirk lives."
-Klingon Ambassador to the Federation, in Star Trek 4.
Eduardo Mitchell
In article <327FA8...@rosella.apana.org.au>, l...@rosella.apana.org.au
says...
Bloody peculiar. I work as a prepress / multimedia / internet consultant;
besides which I do hardware/software installations. 3 computers at home:
1 UNIX, 2 Win95 - network. Several scanners, printers & sundry
periferals.
Crashes? Including the last 3 months of win95 beta testing, 6 in one
year, one in the last six months. The PC愀 are all homebuilds (I dislike
all brand computers equally). If you let Win 95 do its job (and took 20
min. RTFM before installing the thing!) you shouldn愒 have any problem.
IE & Netscape (my favourite browser)installation originally took 10 mins.
Please describe for me EXACTLY what happens with your PC and I惻l do my
best to help you (free of charge :))
Best wishes, Eduardo Mitchell
--
"We should not allow a mine-shaft gap to develop!!!" Gen. Turgidson
Dana Craig
Russell Dovey wrote:
>
> Scott Pallas wrote:
> >
> > I am productive on both my power mac 8500 and my dell 486/100 with
> > windows 95. I find each has it's place for my work.
> > Use what you want to use -or-
> This debate has left one thing hanging. Windows 95 is not like the
> MacOS.
> It's hard to configure, keeps crashing, has numerous errors, and I still
Then try Windows 95, Mac may fix its problems someday.
(My Windows has outworked the MAC I had at work since day 1. To each his
own OS)
Jeff Brower
Hello,
Adding a PC card to a Mac is certainly a fine choice for someone who has
a need for the best applications of both platforms.
Unfortunately, most of us do not have the bucks to permit this. Most
people do not need a dual platform system.
Usres of ordinary office applications (word processing, spreadsheets,
basic graphics) can find good applications on both PC and Mac
platforms. These people are faced with the dilemma of which platform is
best?
Personally, I choose the Mac for its ease of use and ease of
configuration. Also, as a hobby I do a lot of graphics work. I am
familiar with the PC world, as I am a networking consultant, and I
support users of both platforms.
When somebody asks me what they should buy, I tell them to make a list
of their needs first. This includes what they want to do with a
computer, do they have to exchange data or programs with somebody else,
etc.
When the needs list is finished it tis then pretty easy to recommend the
appropriate solution to the person.
Live long and prosper,
Jeff
Surfing the Net with Power Mac
don...@aol.com
I"d like a bundle like you mention, but you want too much money for it!
(Guess you really don't want to sell it, or it would be selling for less
money). Besides, I already hane an HP *855* printer.
rich...@spiritone.com
I would like to hear from someone who has experience using a PC for
graphic design and desktop publishing. I'm using a MAC Powerbook 520 with
expanded 36MB Ram. Works fine with main applications but I have a lot of
extension conflicts and am spending far too much time troubleshooting.
It's time to buy a new computer and I'm considering a PC but have never
used one, nor am I familiar with their use in the graphic design/desktop
publishing field. Any tips?
Bob Zwarick
I made the change over. Switched to a Pentium pro and windows nt. After a
short familiarization period, things are working just fine. I enjoy the extra
speed and improved graphics.
Some may not agree, but I 'm happy I made the change.
RoGeR JoHaNsSoN
> expanded 36MB Ram. Works fine with main applications but I have a lot of
> extension conflicts and am spending far too much time troubleshooting.
Hmm.. expect to spend even more time troubleshooting if you get a PC...
especially if you're going to use it for graphics.
--
.-----|----.
| o | o |** Any views expressed in the above message are my own.**
| / |
| (__ |"Having smoking and non-smoking sections in a restaurant
| \____|_/ | is like having urinating and non-urinating sections in a
| | | swimming pool."
'------\---'
greg robb
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
I would like to hear from someone who has experience using a PC for
graphic design and desktop publishing. I'm using a MAC Powerbook 520 with
extension conflicts and am spending far too much time troubleshooting.
used one, nor am I familiar with their use in the graphic design/desktop
publishing field. Any tips?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
I've been in the graphic arts field for 30 years.
Tips:
Get Confflict Catcher software or better yet get rid of almost all of your
extensions except the ones you need for graphics. Don't use any "just for fun".
Visit the Conflict Compendium on the Web. Call a prepress shop and ask which
extesions they use together with their graphics programs. (mostly just
photoshop, illustrator, & Quark)
Forget buying a PC, unless you like troubleshooting.
80% of graphics is done on Macs, 98% of graphics that get printed (easily) by a
printing press is done on macs. I have worked in several top prepress film shops
- none of them used PCs except to perform file translation or utility work before
converting the job to a Mac. At one shop we did Nextworld magazine on Macs and
ads for popular PC graphics software.
Get a Powermac 7100 or better.
Kevin Wentzel
In article <roger.johansson-...@news.dacapo.se>, roger.j...@dacapo.se (RoGeR JoHaNsSoN) wrote:
> In article <richardb-261...@max2-144.spiritone.com>,
> rich...@spiritone.com wrote:
>
>
> > extension conflicts and am spending far too much time troubleshooting.
>
> especially if you're going to use it for graphics.
>
For a machine to be used with DTP and graphics, off the shelf with a high
end video board and plenty of memory should result in a powerful system with
little or no user configuration. We aren't talking about MSDOS or WIN3.1
anymore. NT and Win95 along with a Plug-N-Play motherboard (all current ones)
mean very little user configuration. Graphics is normal usage on modern PC
type machines.
========================================================================
| Kevin Wentzel email: wen...@hpl.hp.com |
| Hewlett Packard Laboratories |
| 1501 Page Mill Road Phone: (415) 857-4018 |
| Palo Alto, CA. 94303-1126 Fax: (415) 857-8526 |
========================================================================
ru...@smartt.com
roger.j...@dacapo.se (RoGeR JoHaNsSoN) wrote:
>In article <richardb-261...@max2-144.spiritone.com>,
>rich...@spiritone.com wrote:
>> expanded 36MB Ram. Works fine with main applications but I have a lot of
>> extension conflicts and am spending far too much time troubleshooting.
>Hmm.. expect to spend even more time troubleshooting if you get a PC...
>especially if you're going to use it for graphics.
well the best way to avoid troubleshooting is to get a pc that is more
than powerful enough for your needs, get more hard drive space than
you think you'll need cause you will end up needing it later and more
ram, probably a minimum 64 megs but since the prices are good thats
not too expensive. the trouble that I have had with the pc is mostly
due to upgrading.
all the main graphics programs run fine on the pc,
and there will be an increase in support for pc graphics from now on
since pc's have far more graphic power than they did in the past.
the mac has the pre dominant position right now but that is
changing fairly quickly.
Rubik
Jason Thomas Hitesman
In article <roger.johansson-...@news.dacapo.se>,
RoGeR JoHaNsSoN <roger.j...@dacapo.se> wrote:
>In article <richardb-261...@max2-144.spiritone.com>,
>rich...@spiritone.com wrote:
>
>
>> expanded 36MB Ram. Works fine with main applications but I have a lot of
>> extension conflicts and am spending far too much time troubleshooting.
>
>Hmm.. expect to spend even more time troubleshooting if you get a PC...
>especially if you're going to use it for graphics.
I'd have to sya the contrary based on my experiences. Unless you're a
power freak like me a try to push a system well beyond the limits it
supposedly has PC seem to have far fewer conflicts. I've worked on 68k
and powerPC mac's using Photoshop and my own 486 and pentium PC's in
photoshop, painter, and now detailer.
The mac's crashed very often, and usually just as I was reaching for the
save button. The mac's were not underpowered either, the 68k mac had
twice as much memory as my 486but my 486 far outperformed it in speed.
The PowerPC as more than twice the memory of my Pentium and yet my Pentium
still keeps up just as quickly.
As for configuration conflicts. Mac SCSI is just plain broken. It took
three of use (Two of hwo were mac experts) over a week to get a scanner
installed on the 68k. And it took an entire afternoon for us to get our
kodak film scanner, HP flatbed scanner, zip drive, and syquest to all get
along happily. We finally had to give up on the syquest, now we need to
swap the syquest and zip depending on what medium we need to use. On my
pentium the SCSI was built in and all I had to do was literally plug the
cables in. My scanner and zip work fine. I had a slight problem when I
switched rom win3. to 95 but that was microsplat's fault not the hardware.
I will admit that adding more hardware to my system at this point is not
trivial. But running two cdroms, a zip, a quickcam, a vidcap card, a
scanner, a modem, a graphics tablet, mouse, printer, TV output, and a
direct serial link to another system is not trivial on any system. Nor is
it possible on many of the mac's I've worked on. And on those that it is
possible it costs quite a bit more.
I'll will give three bonuses to the mac:
1) Better color calibration software and hardware available. Though there
is NO reason this coulden't be ported to the PC.
2) Quark is better on a Mac. I wish they would keep the PC version
updated better
3) Everyone's favorite - Illustrator. When will we get the new version?
----
Jason Hitesman
webm...@osborn.com
http://frognet.net/~jhitesma
Todd Graham
> I would like to hear from someone who has experience using a PC for
> graphic design and desktop publishing.
Dear confused,
I have the honour of teaching a multimedia course in a school that is
exclusively PC based. (166 mhz, 32 MB, 2 Gig Pentiums right now)
I am a Mac user myself, and have three machines for my own use (Two Power
132's and a Performa 580) I have had similar problems with recent versions
of the Mac OS, most notably on a PowerMac 8100 with the origional versions
of system 7.5
Before 7.5 the 8100 was great, after it was a nightmare. recently I bought
the Power Computing machines and have used 7.5.3 and 7.5.5 on them. They
are great, no problems, they rarely crash (even Netscape is working
great), and they are chock full of extensions. I currently have a slide
scanner two internal 1 gig's and two external two gig drives and a CD
burner hooked up, no problems ever.
The 7.5.0, 7.5.1, 7.5.2 days were a nightmare, there were always problems.
If you are using one of these I sympathasize, but it was a mere blip in an
otherwise good 12 year run of good systems from Apple.
The PC lab's we use at school are a joke. The problems I experienced
during 7.5.2, although frustrating, were explainable. We have basically
come to the point with the PC labs that when things screw up, it's normal.
Not your regular crashes with these babies either, when they go, they take
valuable work that has already been saved with them. Nothing is more
frustrating for the studets after 8 hours of rendering with 3D studio then
to have the entire project just disappear.
We use Illustrator, Photoshop, Director, Fractal, and 3D Studio, on the
PC's, most of the type of stuff you would use I think.
My recommendation Power Computing, with system 7.5.5.
Todd
Dark...@cold.soul
tgr...@fox.nstn.ca (Todd Graham) wrote:
>Dear confused,
>I have the honour of teaching a multimedia course in a school that is
>exclusively PC based. (166 mhz, 32 MB, 2 Gig Pentiums right now)
>The 7.5.0, 7.5.1, 7.5.2 days were a nightmare, there were always problems.
>If you are using one of these I sympathasize, but it was a mere blip in an
>otherwise good 12 year run of good systems from Apple.
>The PC lab's we use at school are a joke. The problems I experienced
>during 7.5.2, although frustrating, were explainable. We have basically
>come to the point with the PC labs that when things screw up, it's normal.
>Not your regular crashes with these babies either, when they go, they take
>valuable work that has already been saved with them. Nothing is more
>frustrating for the studets after 8 hours of rendering with 3D studio then
>to have the entire project just disappear.
Hola, Todd:
You should probably have your school districts techies check out your
network if you're losing files and/or projects after crashes.
Something is seriously set-up wrong on what sounds like a netwide
basis.
I use a similar system (both at work and at home) teach an MM course
myself although the students are business people, and do projects
ranging from diskette mailers through tradeshow kiosks on a contract
basis, and seldom get a crash of any nature - now that the system has
settled in.
When I do get a crash (usually during rendering poly counts so high
that available ram AND swapfile space flood), I do a reset and just
jump right back into the process. Every frame but the last is saved,
I restart rending at the 1st incompleted frame.
Your techies are letting you down, the systems should meet your needs
well.
>Todd
Dark Rider
Dave Mitchell
>I would like to hear from someone who has experience using a PC for
>graphic design and desktop publishing. I'm using a MAC Powerbook 520 with
>expanded 36MB Ram. Works fine with main applications but I have a lot of
>extension conflicts and am spending far too much time troubleshooting.
>It's time to buy a new computer and I'm considering a PC but have never
>used one, nor am I familiar with their use in the graphic design/desktop
>publishing field. Any tips?
Trust me - I run a small electronic prepress area for a high-volume commercial printer, and probably 75-80% of the customer supplied jobs coming in were created on the Mac, with maybe 25% of them being problems to run. On the other hand, out of the 20-25% of the jobs created using Windows, 75% of them have major problems of one sort or another.
I have spent many an afternoon on the phone directing a Windows user on how to find the fonts they forgot to send, or why Microsoft Publisher is not a commecial desktop publishing application and why their job will take longer to get to the press, and so on, and so on.
Do yourself a favor - get the fastest PowerComputing machine you can afford with a Zip drive. Your printer will appreciate it.
If you wonder what I'm talking about, call your printer and ask to talk to the prepress department and ask them. They'll tell you the same thing. Don't be lured into the mindless void of Windows users who think it's great because everyone's using it. Don't get me wrong - We use a DEC AlphaServer running Windows NT for our file/OPI server and the thing is rock solid.
It is the server, however, and not a workstation.
Anyhow - I'm rambling
Good Luck
Dave Mitchell
tom k
I am very biased towards the Macintosh universe. I strongly discourage
you from buying any Wintel machine. Free tech support is a great thing.
The Macintosh is easier to use - everything is drag and drop. The
desktop publishing arena is owned by the Macintosh. One big item to
think about is post production. After you’ve designed it you will need
to have it output - assuming that you for inprint anyway. Macs can read
DOS formated discs but fonts do not translate, at least not any unusual
ones. You will have to face text that rewraps uncontrollably because the
Mac repalces the font (depending on program) with the closest font ID
code it finds - or the service bureau will replace it with their closest
font. This can be a big problem - unless you always postscript your
documents, then no worrys. Usually. The biggest problem with that is if
there is a problem, the service bureau cannot trouble shoot it unless
someone can read the code. Choose a Mac because of compatability within
the field, free tech support (from 1 to 5 years), ease of use and
because it will make a grat sound and smile at you everytime you start
up - hopefully.
As far as witch Mac you will choose - the decision is growing everyday
with more and more clones arriving. Motorola clones are cheap and they
come with a 5 year warranty. They are cheap for a reason though. Bottom
line machines have a 603e processor soldered to the motherboard.
I am being way to wordy.
Either buy the real thing from Apple, or the best clone on the market
would have to be UMAX. Apple’s 7600 is affordable and very upgradable.
For the same money you can have a screaming UMAX wicked-ass fast
multi-processor capable ass that would eat Power Computing for
breakfast. (I don't like Power Computing because they slam Apple in
their ads - opinion - I do not believe that it is right)
With the BeOS on the horizon to fully grasp the Power PC chip's (or
system code-named Gershwin if it ever ships - please) raw processing
speed to give NT a run for their money - you will learn to love the Mac
as anyone does who touches it. We will teach you the secret handshake.
Oh yeah - I work as a sometime Art Director, computer artist at a
design/illustration/3D/service buraeu kind of place and also do lots of
freelance work. I've used every Mac from the Plus to an 8500 (no I have
never worked on a 9500 or an MP, but one day I will) and a couple
clones.
Hope I haven't put you to sleep yet and that I have enlightened you a
little.
R Gormley
tom k (re...@imperium.net) wrote:
: I am very biased towards the Macintosh universe. I strongly discourage
: you from buying any Wintel machine. Free tech support is a great thing.
<snip>
: the field, free tech support (from 1 to 5 years), ease of use and
: because it will make a grat sound and smile at you everytime you start
: up - hopefully.
<snip>
I'm not sure which country you're posting from, but here in the UK
(posting in reply to uk.adverts.computer) Apple support is _not_ free.
I work for Edinburgh University and we had some tech problems with a
LaserWriter Select. They said we couldn't have support because we
hadn't paid for it. (ca 100-200 ukp per year) We could however pay 20
ukp per question...
I've contacted many PC based companies for support and never asked for
money. Prime example - SMC. I came by an SMC EtherCard Plus (read old,
very old) and rang them up to find out the jumper settings. They said
they'd ring me back. Half an hour later they did. It was so old they
couldn't find a manual, but they had found a tech document that listed
they settings. They proceeded to read these over the phone and later
emailed them to me.
Cost - price of initial 10 min phone call...
Slightly irrelevant, but a point of order you might say
Jon S Green
This thread is massively cross-posted, mostly to newsgroups (forsale or
adverts groups, for example) inappropriate to the subject. Please drop it,
or trim your followups to a _very_ small subset of the fifteen newsgroups
it's currently hitting.
Followups set to comp.multimedia _only_.
Jon
--
Work: jo...@harlequin.co.uk http://www.harlequin.co.uk/
Private: jo...@pobox.com <*> http://pobox.com/~jonsg/
PGP key available on request -=- Opinions stated may not be Harlequin's!
Junk email utterly unwelcome. See http://pobox.com/~jonsg/junkmail.html
Joshua Hoover
In article <57i6gi$j...@hplms2.hpl.hp.com>, Kevin_...@hp.com (Kevin
Wentzel) wrote:
Umm, NT is not plug n' play. And even Gates said that 95 is far from
where it should be in the plug n play department.
Virgil
**I would like to hear from someone who has experience using a PC for
**graphic design and desktop publishing. I'm using a MAC Powerbook 520 with
**expanded 36MB Ram. Works fine with main applications but I have a lot of
**extension conflicts and am spending far too much time troubleshooting.
**It's time to buy a new computer and I'm considering a PC but have never
**used one, nor am I familiar with their use in the graphic design/desktop
**publishing field. Any tips?
Hello,
I hope I wont start this lame OS war stuff cause I think its worthless.
But I just want to comment about your post. If your a mac user for most of
your computing life you should really stick with the mac. Yes windows has
really advance with windows95 and NT but so has the mac; especially in
terms of hardware and stability. Plus you'll have some problems as well if
you go with windows95 and NT that you wont find on the mac. If your
strapped for money go with one of the mac clone makers. Power Computing
and UMAX are definately good buys in terms of price and performance. I
have one myself and running system 7.5.5 makes my system stable even with
lots of extensions. Plus you can transfer files from your Powerbook to
your new mac if you decide to go with a new mac. So thats one thing to
think about.
I'd like to say more but don't want to bore you to death so if you need
more info just drop me a line.
--
Virgil
spu...@aloha.net
Livewire from Hawaii.....
Bruce Kelton
On 28 Nov 1996 02:18:58 GMT, kpp...@sgi.net (Dave Mitchell) wrote:
>In article <richardb-261...@max2-144.spiritone.com>, rich...@spiritone.com wrote:
>
>>I would like to hear from someone who has experience using a PC for
>>graphic design and desktop publishing. I'm using a MAC Powerbook 520 with
>>expanded 36MB Ram. Works fine with main applications but I have a lot of
>>extension conflicts and am spending far too much time troubleshooting.
>>It's time to buy a new computer and I'm considering a PC but have never
>>used one, nor am I familiar with their use in the graphic design/desktop
>>publishing field. Any tips?
>. Don't be lured into the mindless void of Windows users who think it's great because everyone's using it. Don't get me wrong - We use a DEC AlphaServer running Windows NT for our file/OPI server and the thing is rock solid.
>
Also be sure to not be lured into the mindless void of Mac users who
think it's great because many service bureaus use Macs. When the
services started using Macs, Pc graphics were, too say the least, a
little lacking. So they started using Macs and now it's always easier
to stay in a relationship, than to try something new. Many are now
using PCs as well as Macs because of the demand from PC graphics users
who have now found the PC to be more than able to produce. This trend
will only grow stronger. Graphics software makers have also taken to
the PC in a big way.
As far as "troubleshooting more" on a PC, I have never had to do more
than minor tweaking, if any, on the newer powerful PCs, unless I
choose to really get down to some really power tweaking of my own. I
LIKE being able to config my system better than factory. But in the
end I feel we may see the MAC and PC OS merging more and more into
more cross platform compatibility.
Being able to install and run a much much greater variety of software
and hardware has always been both blessing and a curse for the PC.
If you decide on a PC though I think you'll be very very happy.
Macs have also made many improvements in their OS and can also be a
great choice too. It's a much harder choice today then in the past,
both systems are far far better.
Breaker Communications
http://www.breaker.com des...@breaker.com
http://www.breaker.com/look/2k2 bke...@kendaco.telebyte.com
Find a job you love and you'll never work a day in your life.
Paul Harris
roger.j...@dacapo.se (RoGeR JoHaNsSoN) wrote:
>Hmm.. expect to spend even more time troubleshooting if you get a PC...
>especially if you're going to use it for graphics.
On my last PC, once I had it configured properly, I had a little
troubleshooting to do maybe once a year. I now have a new Pentium,
totally problem-free from day 1, but I do expect to maybe have to
spend a few hours every year or so with some problem or other. Nothing
significant, though, and certainly not a drag on my productivity.
Personally, if I were starting from scratch - though other factors
might influence me towards the purchase of a Mac - I wouldn't really
factor in the troubleshooting aspect, as it's really not a big issue
any more.
Paul Harris
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
WORD WORKS TECHNICAL COMMUNICATIONS
Design & Layout
Digital Typesetting (604)384-3076
Editing & Writing (604)384-4402 (fax)
1013 Pendergast St.
Victoria, BC V8V 2W8 Word...@IslandNet.com
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
keith jack
In Article <sputnik-2811...@oahu-13.u.aloha.net>, spu...@aloha.net
(Virgil) wrote:
[edit]
>I hope I wont start this lame OS war stuff cause I think its worthless.
How true!
I use a Mac at home and a PC at work, and still prefer the
Mac much more, and mine is much more reliable than the PC at work.
On the other hand, new PCs coming out next year will have some
pretty incredible capabilities, which is making me think real
hard about getting one, even with my Mac software investment.
-----------------------------------------------------------------
Keith Jack kja...@melb.mindspring.com
Author: Video Demystified, Second Edition
Multimedia Central: http://www.mindspring.com/~kjack1/mmhome.html
Multimedia Marketing, Harris Semiconductor
Peter A. Philleo
PCs are difficult to use for design and publishing, period. I work at a
print shop where we regularly get PC files in and regularly have problems
with them. The problem? The PC and PC files are trying to work in an
otherwise Mac-centric business. On a PC only network, with PC storage and
output devices, there's much less of a problem. Macs are simply getting
worse and worse for stability. The ones we have crash no less than a dozen
times a day on common tasks. A PC running Win95 doesn't have to worry about
whether its installed on a Quadra with AV monitor or a PPC 604 225Mhz
system or a laptop system. It works on everything.
--
rich...@spiritone.com wrote in article
<richardb-261...@max2-144.spiritone.com>...
John Christie
keith jack (kja...@melb.mindspring.com) wrote:
: On the other hand, new PCs coming out next year will have some
: pretty incredible capabilities,which is making me think real
Not to be contentious but I guess I haven't been keeping up on the PC
forecasts. Could someone tell me what the great stuff is coming out on
PCs next year that would make one turn away from the stuff forcasted for
Mac next year?
I'm sort of looking forward to:
Tri Media
300+ Mhz G3 chips (July)
500+ Mhz Exponential chips (Spring)
83 MHz logic boards (some PPCP designs)
less than $100 dollar QD3D accelerators (shipping January)
SMP being more ubiquitous at the OS level (QTML will be)
Last I heard Intel was working on a 250 Mhz MMX as the next great
thing. Not only you, but the PC folks, will have to abandon their
current software to take *full* advantage of that. You'll have to be
running at least NT and all new multimedia software.
And then there's the potential from Be and the next Mac OS (OK, so
maybe that is a little dreaming).
Oh, and I forgot the raft of new clone makers going to enter the
market. Maybe sys7.7 should also be something to be happy about.
Although it is supposed to be a memory pig at alpha stage it is also
supposed to include FutureShare and Apple will actually incorporate some
of their own technologies (multi threaded finder for example).
--
------------------------------------------------------------------
John Christie
"You aren't free because you CAN choose - only if you DO choose."
"All you are is the decisions you make. If you let circumstances make
them for you then what you are becomes very easy to estimate."
ANDREW WILLIAM HILDEN
Macintoshes are lot easier to troubleshoot.
1/2 the time the anser is reinstall the system software.
1/4 of time the answer is do a clean reinstall of the system.
1/8 of the time answer is to format the drive and reinstall the system
1/8 of the time the mac fixes itself.
* *******hil...@ug.cs.dal.ca******* *
*********************************************
Paul Harris
kpp...@sgi.net (Dave Mitchell) wrote:
>Trust me - I run a small electronic prepress area for a high-volume commercial printer,
>and probably 75-80% of the customer
>supplied jobs coming in were created on the Mac, with maybe 25% of them being
>problems to run. On the other hand, out of the 20-25% of the jobs created using Windows,
>75% of them have major problems of one sort or another.
>I have spent many an afternoon on the phone directing a Windows user on
>how to find the fonts they forgot to send, or
>why Microsoft Publisher is not a commecial desktop publishing application
>and why their job will take longer to get to the press, and so on, and so on.
All valid points, Dave. However, I wonder if you're blaming the
messenger here. The problems you describe - failure to include fonts
with a document to be output, the use of a less-than optimal software
program for outputting to film - indicate a lack of knowledge in the
users, rather than any inherent problem with the platform. How about
comparing apples and apples (no pun intended!)? What would happen if a
Mac user forgot to include fonts?
Why is it that some PC users - such as myself - who are cognizant with
the industry standards, use the standard DTP packages such as Quark
and PageMaker, and know enough to include linked EPS's, fonts, etc.,
rarely have problems with our output?
No, I think that the real problem is that there are more amateurs
using the Windows platform, and more pros began on the Mac, rather
than any specific weakness in Wintel machines.
keith jack
In Article <57m1qn$b...@News.Dal.Ca>, j...@or.psychology.dal.ca (John Christie)
wrote:
>keith jack (kja...@melb.mindspring.com) wrote:
>: On the other hand, new PCs coming out next year will have some
>: pretty incredible capabilities,which is making me think real
>: hard about getting one, even with my Mac software investment.
>
>Not to be contentious but I guess I haven't been keeping up on the PC
>forecasts. Could someone tell me what the great stuff is coming out on
>PCs next year that would make one turn away from the stuff forcasted for
>Mac next year?
1. The Intel processors, I can't talk about... :)
2. USB (12 Mbps) and IEEE 1394 (400+ Mbps) I/O capabilites to
replace all the current I/O connectors.
3. 16-, 18, or 20-bit 3D audio, with FM and wavetable synthesis,
soundblaster compatible, and optional FAX/modem, on the motherboard.
Can also optionally support Dolby Digital, MPEG, and G.7xx audio
decompression.
4. Goal is to have NTSC/PAL I/O as standard feature (within the
GUI chip).
5. GUI chip can also support MPEG 2 and H.26x video decompression
acceleration, and 3D graphics acceleration.
6. Several new bus and DRAM architectures to increase bandwidth to
memory by some ungodly amount I haven't calculated yet. Long term
(2-3 years), they're probably looking at close to 1GBps bandwdith
for main memory.
Andrew Murray
> I would like to hear from someone who has experience using a PC for
> graphic design and desktop publishing. I'm using a MAC Powerbook 520 with
> expanded 36MB Ram. Works fine with main applications but I have a lot of
> extension conflicts and am spending far too much time troubleshooting.
> It's time to buy a new computer and I'm considering a PC but have never
> used one, nor am I familiar with their use in the graphic design/desktop
> publishing field. Any tips?
I'm not a graphics designer, but from what i hear (and read) the Mac is far
more advanced in that area. And especially desktop publishing. Since you're
already familliar with the Mac, I suggest you stick with it.
Andrew
P.S.
For the conflicts, try first of all to minimize (get rid of some)
extensions. Then if you are still having major trouble, you could use
Conflict Catcher or NOW Startup Manager to get rid of the bad ones.
R.S. Little
Gee all things that the mac will have in the next 3 months or already
have. ieee 1394 is more commonly known as firewire.
Bobby Henderson
Paul Harris wrote:
> Why is it that some PC users - such as myself - who are cognizant with
> the industry standards, use the standard DTP packages such as Quark
> and PageMaker, and know enough to include linked EPS's, fonts, etc.,
> rarely have problems with our output?
>
> No, I think that the real problem is that there are more amateurs
> using the Windows platform, and more pros began on the Mac, rather
> than any specific weakness in Wintel machines.
>
> Paul Harris
I totally agree with your point. Many of the problems people run into
with Mac machines or Wintel machines comes from them not knowing how to
properly maintain their system and not knowing how to properly use their
software. I have used Macs. I currently use a PC. I have rarely had
problems with either. The Mac OS is cool. But then Windows 95 and
Windows NT 4.0 are big improvements. Overall Windows has steadily
improved. I pulled out a box with old software and found Windows 286.
Uhhh! Windows has come a long, long way.
Hardware on Macs and PCs is getting so similar that the only difference
anymore involves the CPU and design of the computer case. I think if
there is any real problem between the two platforms, it is in all the
cheap junk software PC users can put on their systems. That's where you
get your system registry trashed up and have lots of shared .DLL files.
I don't put crappy software on my system. As a result, it runs very
well.
An aside. How about the situation where an amateur point and clicks once
in Pagemaker and "pow" he's a graphic artist? Kinda makes people with
formal training and four year art degrees a little angry, especially
when that new "artist" takes a design job for little pay. But in the
end the quality of the work stands out. The real artist will win.
Michael J. Connors
Why is that you are so intent to win this arguement. PC compatible are
definately more powerful and cheaper, but are designed for the business
types, macs are designed for the creative. It's easier and ten times
cooler. It's like comparing breakfast cereal. Bran flakes are very
healthy but only come in one flavor (and there may be 300 different
types of bran flakes but they're all bran) Mac are like fruitloops,
thier not good for you and your always crashing but breakfast is an
adventure with games on the box and a toy inside.