Orphaned emails

[John Hill]

I have an iPhone 6 on which there are a few emails in an IMAP account
that I cannot delete.

At least, I can go through the motions and they appear to delete, but
they always pop up again.

They have been deleted successfully on the account as seen on an iMac
and an iPad.

Presumably they would disappear if I was able to resynchronise the
account with the version on the server (it is a gmail account). But how
to do this?

I have looked through the IOS for iPhone and IOS for Pad manuals but
found nothing useful. I am running the latest version of IOS available,
BTW.

Can you help?

J.
--
Please reply to yclept at outlook dot com.

[Wade Garrett]

Delete account from phone, then reinstall it?

--
Don't cling to a mistake just because you spent a lot of time or money
making it.

[JoeyDee]

On Sun, 06 Aug 2017 04:31:53 -0400, John Hill wrote
(in article<1nabwqv.69hs9u1v38045N%ne...@erewhon.invalid>):

I'm not sure what you mean by "They have been deleted successfully on the
account as seen on an iMac and an iPad," so if this is what you've done and
it
hasn't worked, I apologize.

I seem to remember having this problem which I eventually solved by logging
in to the Gmail web-based interface and deleting them from there.

--
Joe W Dee
Remember: It is To Laugh

[John Hill]

Wade Garrett <wa...@cooler.net> wrote:
> On 8/6/17 4:31 AM, John Hill wrote:
>> I have an iPhone 6 on which there are a few emails in an IMAP account
>> that I cannot delete.
>>
>> At least, I can go through the motions and they appear to delete, but
>> they always pop up again.
>>
>> They have been deleted successfully on the account as seen on an iMac
>> and an iPad.
>>
>> Presumably they would disappear if I was able to resynchronise the
>> account with the version on the server (it is a gmail account). But how
>> to do this?
>>
>> I have looked through the IOS for iPhone and IOS for Pad manuals but
>> found nothing useful. I am running the latest version of IOS available,
>> BTW.
>>
>> Can you help?
>>
>> J.
>>
>
> Delete account from phone, then reinstall it?
>

That's probably the answer, so I'll give it a try. Seems a bit of a
sledgehammer method 🙁.

There's a "sync now" option on an Android phone and I wondered if there
might be something similar in IOS. But if there is, surely someone would
have pointed it out by now so I guess that it's missing from IOS. Pity.

J.

[John Hill]

Yes. As I understand IMAP, if I delete or move an email on one device the
action should be reflected on other devices when the account is accessed on
them. This seems to have failed for these messages 🙁.

I will check the gmail website as you suggest but I rather expect that
there'll be no trace of the "orphaned" messages there...

J.

[Jolly Roger]

Have you taken a look at the relevant GMail account settings on the
iPhone? For instance Settings > Mail > GMail Account > Advanced > MOVE
DISCARDED MESSAGES INTO controls what happens when you delete a message
from that account. I would compare the account settings on the iPhone
with similar settings on your iMac and iPad.

--
E-mail sent to this address may be devoured by my ravenous SPAM filter.
I often ignore posts from Google. Use a real news client instead.

JR

[Jolly Roger]

On 2017-08-07, John Hill <jo...@yclept.wanadoo.co.uk> wrote:

> Wade Garrett <wa...@cooler.net> wrote:
>>
>> Delete account from phone, then reinstall it?
>
> That's probably the answer, so I'll give it a try. Seems a bit of a
> sledgehammer method 🙁.

I'd try comparing account settings with your other devices first -
especially the iPad since it is running iOS and behaving the way you'd
like.

> There's a "sync now" option on an Android phone and I wondered if there
> might be something similar in IOS. But if there is, surely someone would
> have pointed it out by now so I guess that it's missing from IOS. Pity.

In iOS, the sync (fetch) happens when you open the Mail application,
unless you have changed the Settings > Mail > Fetch New Data setting for
the GMail account.

[Jolly Roger]

On 2017-08-07, Jolly Roger <jolly...@pobox.com> wrote:
> On 2017-08-07, John Hill <jo...@yclept.wanadoo.co.uk> wrote:
>> Wade Garrett <wa...@cooler.net> wrote:
>>>
>>> Delete account from phone, then reinstall it?
>>
>> That's probably the answer, so I'll give it a try. Seems a bit of a
>> sledgehammer method 🙁.
>
> I'd try comparing account settings with your other devices first -
> especially the iPad since it is running iOS and behaving the way you'd
> like.
>
>> There's a "sync now" option on an Android phone and I wondered if there
>> might be something similar in IOS. But if there is, surely someone would
>> have pointed it out by now so I guess that it's missing from IOS. Pity.
>
> In iOS, the sync (fetch) happens when you open the Mail application,
> unless you have changed the Settings > Mail > Fetch New Data setting for
> the GMail account.

And if you scroll all the way to the bottom of the Settings > Mail >
Fetch New Data page, you can set how often Mail will fetch new messages
(sync) while the app is running.

[Wade Garrett]

On 8/7/17 6:34 AM, John Hill wrote:
> Wade Garrett <wa...@cooler.net> wrote:
>> On 8/6/17 4:31 AM, John Hill wrote:
>>> I have an iPhone 6 on which there are a few emails in an IMAP account
>>> that I cannot delete.
>>>
>>> At least, I can go through the motions and they appear to delete, but
>>> they always pop up again.
>>>
>>> They have been deleted successfully on the account as seen on an iMac
>>> and an iPad.
>>>
>>> Presumably they would disappear if I was able to resynchronise the
>>> account with the version on the server (it is a gmail account). But how
>>> to do this?
>>>
>>> I have looked through the IOS for iPhone and IOS for Pad manuals but
>>> found nothing useful. I am running the latest version of IOS available,
>>> BTW.
>>>
>>> Can you help?
>>>
>>> J.
>>>
>>
>> Delete account from phone, then reinstall it?
>>
>
> That's probably the answer, so I'll give it a try. Seems a bit of a
> sledgehammer method 🙁.

> J.
>

Six seconds to delete, 45 seconds to put it back; more like a finger-tap
then a sledgehammer ;-)


--
Every time you're about to get angry with President Trump, think the
phrase "President Hillary Clinton"

[John Hill]

Jolly Roger <jolly...@pobox.com> wrote:

> On 2017-08-07, John Hill <jo...@yclept.wanadoo.co.uk> wrote:
> > Wade Garrett <wa...@cooler.net> wrote:
> >>
> >> Delete account from phone, then reinstall it?
> >
> > That's probably the answer, so I'll give it a try. Seems a bit of a

> > sledgehammer method ?.

>
> I'd try comparing account settings with your other devices first -
> especially the iPad since it is running iOS and behaving the way you'd
> like.
>
> > There's a "sync now" option on an Android phone and I wondered if there
> > might be something similar in IOS. But if there is, surely someone would
> > have pointed it out by now so I guess that it's missing from IOS. Pity.
>
> In iOS, the sync (fetch) happens when you open the Mail application,
> unless you have changed the Settings > Mail > Fetch New Data setting for
> the GMail account.

But is this a total resynch, starting from scratch, or an incremental
one, looking for changes? I can envisage the latter going adrift when
the copy of the message on the server is gone forever, rather than
lurking in a deleted messages folder.

Anyway, I will look at the Fetch New Data settings again.

[John Hill]

Jolly Roger <jolly...@pobox.com> wrote:

> On 2017-08-06, John Hill <ne...@erewhon.invalid> wrote:
> > I have an iPhone 6 on which there are a few emails in an IMAP account
> > that I cannot delete.
> >
> > At least, I can go through the motions and they appear to delete, but
> > they always pop up again.
> >
> > They have been deleted successfully on the account as seen on an iMac
> > and an iPad.
> >
> > Presumably they would disappear if I was able to resynchronise the
> > account with the version on the server (it is a gmail account). But how
> > to do this?
> >
> > I have looked through the IOS for iPhone and IOS for Pad manuals but
> > found nothing useful. I am running the latest version of IOS available,
> > BTW.
> >
> > Can you help?
>
> Have you taken a look at the relevant GMail account settings on the
> iPhone? For instance Settings > Mail > GMail Account > Advanced > MOVE
> DISCARDED MESSAGES INTO controls what happens when you delete a message
> from that account. I would compare the account settings on the iPhone
> with similar settings on your iMac and iPad.

I looked at that at the outset; it was always set up for Delete on the
iPad, but the iPhone was set to Archive, and was changed to Delete.

And Delete was set to Trash (or equivalent).

But the options on swiping the essages in the list is still Archive, not
Delete, so I may be missing something somewhere.

You'd think the default IOS options on the iPhone and iPad would be the
same, but seemingly not…

Of course, it may be that the default options have changed as IOS was
updated since I got the iPad some years ago, and the settings were
retained. Ithe iPhne is only a month or so old.

That's the problem with all these options and flexibility; they violate
the KISS principle.

The best bet so far is to delete and reinstall the account.

[John Hill]

Wade Garrett <wa...@cooler.net> wrote:

> On 8/7/17 6:34 AM, John Hill wrote:
> > Wade Garrett <wa...@cooler.net> wrote:
> >> On 8/6/17 4:31 AM, John Hill wrote:
> >>> I have an iPhone 6 on which there are a few emails in an IMAP account
> >>> that I cannot delete.
> >>>
> >>> At least, I can go through the motions and they appear to delete, but
> >>> they always pop up again.
> >>>
> >>> They have been deleted successfully on the account as seen on an iMac
> >>> and an iPad.
> >>>
> >>> Presumably they would disappear if I was able to resynchronise the
> >>> account with the version on the server (it is a gmail account). But how
> >>> to do this?
> >>>
> >>> I have looked through the IOS for iPhone and IOS for Pad manuals but
> >>> found nothing useful. I am running the latest version of IOS available,
> >>> BTW.
> >>>
> >>> Can you help?
> >>>
> >>> J.
> >>>
> >>
> >> Delete account from phone, then reinstall it?
> >>
> >
> > That's probably the answer, so I'll give it a try. Seems a bit of a

> > sledgehammer method ?.

> > J.
> >
>
> Six seconds to delete, 45 seconds to put it back; more like a finger-tap
> then a sledgehammer ;-)

You are probably right...

[Jolly Roger]

On 2017-08-07, John Hill <ne...@erewhon.invalid> wrote:

> Jolly Roger <jolly...@pobox.com> wrote:
>>
>> Have you taken a look at the relevant GMail account settings on the
>> iPhone? For instance Settings > Mail > GMail Account > Advanced > MOVE
>> DISCARDED MESSAGES INTO controls what happens when you delete a message
>> from that account. I would compare the account settings on the iPhone
>> with similar settings on your iMac and iPad.
>
> I looked at that at the outset; it was always set up for Delete on the
> iPad, but the iPhone was set to Archive, and was changed to Delete.
>
> And Delete was set to Trash (or equivalent).
>
> But the options on swiping the essages in the list is still Archive, not
> Delete, so I may be missing something somewhere.
>
> You'd think the default IOS options on the iPhone and iPad would be the
> same, but seemingly not…

I suspect this setting may be determined by the server, but I could be
wrong.

> Of course, it may be that the default options have changed as IOS was
> updated since I got the iPad some years ago, and the settings were
> retained. Ithe iPhne is only a month or so old.

That's also possible.

> That's the problem with all these options and flexibility; they violate
> the KISS principle.
>
> The best bet so far is to delete and reinstall the account.

Wonder how that setting will be set afterwards...

[Jolly Roger]

On 2017-08-07, John Hill <ne...@erewhon.invalid> wrote:

> Jolly Roger <jolly...@pobox.com> wrote:
>
>> On 2017-08-07, John Hill <jo...@yclept.wanadoo.co.uk> wrote:
>> > Wade Garrett <wa...@cooler.net> wrote:
>> >>
>> >> Delete account from phone, then reinstall it?
>> >
>> > That's probably the answer, so I'll give it a try. Seems a bit of a
>> > sledgehammer method ?.
>>
>> I'd try comparing account settings with your other devices first -
>> especially the iPad since it is running iOS and behaving the way you'd
>> like.
>>
>> > There's a "sync now" option on an Android phone and I wondered if there
>> > might be something similar in IOS. But if there is, surely someone would
>> > have pointed it out by now so I guess that it's missing from IOS. Pity.
>>
>> In iOS, the sync (fetch) happens when you open the Mail application,
>> unless you have changed the Settings > Mail > Fetch New Data setting for
>> the GMail account.
>
> But is this a total resynch, starting from scratch, or an incremental
> one, looking for changes?

The latter.

> I can envisage the latter going adrift when
> the copy of the message on the server is gone forever, rather than
> lurking in a deleted messages folder.

Maybe. I don't rely on Google's IMAP servers much at all, personally.
Don't trust them with my personal messages.

[Your Name]

On 2017-08-07 10:34:08 +0000, John Hill said:
> JoeyDee <joe...@outlook.com> wrote:
>> On Sun, 06 Aug 2017 04:31:53 -0400, John Hill wrote
>> (in article<1nabwqv.69hs9u1v38045N%ne...@erewhon.invalid>):
>>>
>>> I have an iPhone 6 on which there are a few emails in an IMAP account
>>> that I cannot delete.
>>>
>>> At least, I can go through the motions and they appear to delete, but
>>> they always pop up again.
>>>
>>> They have been deleted successfully on the account as seen on an iMac
>>> and an iPad.
>>>
>>> Presumably they would disappear if I was able to resynchronise the
>>> account with the version on the server (it is a gmail account). But how
>>> to do this?
>>>
>>> I have looked through the IOS for iPhone and IOS for Pad manuals but
>>> found nothing useful. I am running the latest version of IOS available,
>>> BTW.
>>>
>>> Can you help?
>>

>> I'm not sure what you mean by "They have been deleted successfully on the
>> account as seen on an iMac and an iPad," so if this is what you've done and
>> it
>> hasn't worked, I apologize.
>>
>> I seem to remember having this problem which I eventually solved by logging
>> in to the Gmail web-based interface and deleting them from there.
>
> Yes. As I understand IMAP, if I delete or move an email on one device the
> action should be reflected on other devices when the account is accessed on
> them. This seems to have failed for these messages 🙁.
>
> I will check the gmail website as you suggest but I rather expect that
> there'll be no trace of the "orphaned" messages there...

This isn't an iOS issue.

The problem is that GMail is simply complete garbage. Just like the
morons at Microsoft, Google thinks they can ignore established
standards and make up their own silly ideas of how things should work
and then force everyone else to do it that way. There are numerous
people who have issues with deleted messages reappearing, even on
Android devices running Google's own crappy OS:
<https://forums.androidcentral.com/samsung-galaxy-s5/380120-deleted-emails-reappear.html>


This seems to be possibly caused by Google not actually *deleting* the
messages properly, but idiotically just marking them as "deleted",
which the sensible standards-following email applications don't
understand.