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John McGaw
Oct 19, 2021, 4:43:55 PM10/19/21
to
If anybody actually cares about android stuff, 12 dropped today if you have
a compatible device. I'm not sure that I like it. They are trying to be way
to cute in my estimation and I can't find a way to change that ugly
ridiculous analog clock widget back to something presentable.
--
Bodger's Dictum: Artifical intelligence
can never overcome natural stupidity.
a compatible device. I'm not sure that I like it. They are trying to be way
to cute in my estimation and I can't find a way to change that ugly
ridiculous analog clock widget back to something presentable.
--
Bodger's Dictum: Artifical intelligence
can never overcome natural stupidity.
Andy Burns
Oct 19, 2021, 4:51:19 PM10/19/21
to
John McGaw wrote:
> If anybody actually cares about android stuff, 12 dropped today if you have a
> compatible device.
Thanks, I checked earlier and it wasn't released, but downloading now.
> If anybody actually cares about android stuff, 12 dropped today if you have a
> compatible device.
> I'm not sure that I like it. They are trying to be way to
> cute in my estimation and I can't find a way to change that ugly ridiculous
> analog clock widget back to something presentable.
Andy Burns
Oct 20, 2021, 4:25:06 AM10/20/21
to
analogue
Doesn't take much to get used to the changes of the new pull-down notification
shade & tiles.
The new theme (Material You?) has more of the subtle slidy/stretchy/swooshy
effects, the whole screen has a slight rubbery feel to it as you reach the
limits of scrolling.
Mildly annoying things to me ...
it turned on a floating bubble for the live transcription option which wasn't
obvious how to turn off
The font sizes seem to act one size up from v11, so I used to be on Large, but
have had to drop down to Default
The colours no seem to be higher saturated at higher brightnesses, so I had to
turn that down a notch too.
It's a shame that the Pixel3 receives this v12 update and then stops receiving
security updates at the same time, why not give a final year of fixes on the
updated version? It does not feel like a phone struggling to run the latest
firmware.
I know Arlen will say the framework modules are increasingly updatable via the
APEX mechanism, I see that ART is updatable as of v12, how do I see what ART
version I have, so I can see if it ever gets updated?
John McGaw
Oct 20, 2021, 11:19:52 AM10/20/21
to
On 10/20/2021 4:25 AM, Andy Burns wrote:
> the Pixel3 receives this v12 update and then stops receiving security
> updates at the same time
Hmmm. Hadn't realized that although it was coming some day.
> the Pixel3 receives this v12 update and then stops receiving security
> updates at the same time
As luck (?) would have it I finally managed after much sweat and grief to
get an order in for a Pixel 6 Pro 256. Their normal store ordering process
left me tied up for over two hours yesterday and, in the end, emptied my
cart without warning and then listed all phones as being out of stock. This
morning I had a brainstorm and went in through Google Fi and magically they
offered me the phone I had been trying to get yesterday along with a free
set of earbuds. I don't need the latter since I have some good Jabra
noise-cancelling buds but what the hell, I can always use spares or give
them to someone as a gift. I did that with two Google smart speakers they
gave me a while back.
Well, back to the salt mine...
Andy Burns
Oct 20, 2021, 11:33:26 AM10/20/21
to
John McGaw wrote:
> As luck (?) would have it I finally managed after much sweat and grief to get an
> order in for a Pixel 6 Pro 256
Specs seem good, but that camera bar just looks fugly to me, and the price is
> As luck (?) would have it I finally managed after much sweat and grief to get an
> order in for a Pixel 6 Pro 256
rather Apple-inspired; if they sold the Pixel 5a over here, I'd probably buy
one, grey importing doesn't seem worthwhile.
AJL
Oct 20, 2021, 11:55:18 AM10/20/21
to
Andy Burns wrote:
> The new [A12] theme (Material You?) has more of the subtle
recently updated one of my laptops from W10 to W11 and dislike (hate?)
the GUI. Fortunately I still have this Chromebook and the other w10
laptop to pacify me for awhile until I suck it up and learn to feel
comfortable with the new GUI. On the other hand I could maybe just give
it to a grandkid? Would be win-win?
On the other hand W11 is supposed to eventually run Android apps. But
from what I've seen so far it may not be that great. One article says
you'll be stuck with the Amazon app store. And all the "sneak" photos
I've seen so far show the apps running in a phone sized window, none
full screen like my current W10 Android emulator does with many. Wait and
see I guess...
> It's a shame that the Pixel3 receives this v12 update and then stops
> receiving security updates at the same time, why not give a final
> year of fixes on the updated version?
My 2 year old Galaxy S10+ received an update yesterday. I though
maybe... But no A12, just an update. I'm not sure how long it will
continue to receive updates...
> The new [A12] theme (Material You?) has more of the subtle
> slidy/stretchy/swooshy effects, the whole screen has a slight
> rubbery feel to it as you reach the limits of scrolling.
>
> Mildly annoying things to me ...
Perhaps human nature? People (me in particular) dislike change. I
> rubbery feel to it as you reach the limits of scrolling.
>
> Mildly annoying things to me ...
recently updated one of my laptops from W10 to W11 and dislike (hate?)
the GUI. Fortunately I still have this Chromebook and the other w10
laptop to pacify me for awhile until I suck it up and learn to feel
comfortable with the new GUI. On the other hand I could maybe just give
it to a grandkid? Would be win-win?
On the other hand W11 is supposed to eventually run Android apps. But
from what I've seen so far it may not be that great. One article says
you'll be stuck with the Amazon app store. And all the "sneak" photos
I've seen so far show the apps running in a phone sized window, none
full screen like my current W10 Android emulator does with many. Wait and
see I guess...
> It's a shame that the Pixel3 receives this v12 update and then stops
> receiving security updates at the same time, why not give a final
> year of fixes on the updated version?
maybe... But no A12, just an update. I'm not sure how long it will
continue to receive updates...
Robin Goodfellow
Oct 20, 2021, 11:56:42 AM10/20/21
to
John McGaw <Nob...@Nowh.ere> asked
"Earlier this month, a leak revealed that a German retailer would give
Pixel 6 buyers free Bose Headphones 700, usually worth $380 when
purchased standalone."
Target to include free Pixel Buds A-Series with every Pixel 6 pre-order
<https://www.androidpolice.com/target-pixel-6-preorder-bundle-leak-looks-like-one-hell-of-a-good-deal/>
"buyers who purchase the Pixel 6 or Pixel 6 Pro and the Pixel Buds A-Series
as a bundle will save $99, essentially giving them the earbuds for free.
Given how favorably the new Pixel Buds fared in our review, this should
definitely be a sweet deal if you wanted to get new true wireless earbuds
already − or a way to make some quick money by selling them online. "
> I had a brainstorm and went in through Google Fi and magically they
> offered me the phone I had been trying to get yesterday along with a free
> set of earbuds.
Looks like free earbuds are in a few Pixel 6 or Pixel 6 Pro deals...
> offered me the phone I had been trying to get yesterday along with a free
> set of earbuds.
"Earlier this month, a leak revealed that a German retailer would give
Pixel 6 buyers free Bose Headphones 700, usually worth $380 when
purchased standalone."
Target to include free Pixel Buds A-Series with every Pixel 6 pre-order
<https://www.androidpolice.com/target-pixel-6-preorder-bundle-leak-looks-like-one-hell-of-a-good-deal/>
"buyers who purchase the Pixel 6 or Pixel 6 Pro and the Pixel Buds A-Series
as a bundle will save $99, essentially giving them the earbuds for free.
Given how favorably the new Pixel Buds fared in our review, this should
definitely be a sweet deal if you wanted to get new true wireless earbuds
already − or a way to make some quick money by selling them online. "
Robin Goodfellow
Oct 20, 2021, 12:11:32 PM10/20/21
to
Andy Burns <use...@andyburns.uk> asked
and they will start shipping on October 28th. For those in Europe, the
phones will start shipping on November 1st."
"As for the camera, The Pixel 6 will have a dual-camera setup.
There will be a 50-megapixel main camera and a 12-megapixel ultrawide.
Upfront, there's an 8-megapixel selfie camera."
<https://www.androidheadlines.com/2021/10/target-has-an-enticing-pixel-6-pre-order-deal.html>
The USA base pixel 6 at Target is $600 (plus local sales tax, if any).
"The base model will have a modest 8GB of RAM and up to 256GB of onboard
storage. Keeping the lights on is a 4,616mAh battery."
"It will have a 6.4-inch 1080p+ AMOLED display that can run at 90Hz.
Under that display will be a fingerprint scanner, and it will only
have a punch-hole up top to interrupt it. Under the hood, it will be using
Google's own Tensor SoC, marking Google's break away from Qualcomm's
Snapdragon chips.
The USA Pixel 6 Pro will start at $900 (plus local sales tax, if any).
"There will be 12GB of RAM, up to 512GB of storage, and a 5,000mAh battery"
"This phone will have a 6.7-inch 1440p+ AMOLED display that can run at
120Hz. It will share the under-display fingerprint scanner, punch-hole,
and the Tensor chip.
The camera package will be the same as the base model, but with the
addition of a 48-megapixel telephoto camera on the back."
> Specs seem good, but that camera bar just looks fugly to me, and the price is
> rather Apple-inspired; if they sold the Pixel 5a over here, I'd probably buy
> one, grey importing doesn't seem worthwhile.
"If you're in the US, these phones will go on sale starting October 19th,
> rather Apple-inspired; if they sold the Pixel 5a over here, I'd probably buy
> one, grey importing doesn't seem worthwhile.
and they will start shipping on October 28th. For those in Europe, the
phones will start shipping on November 1st."
"As for the camera, The Pixel 6 will have a dual-camera setup.
There will be a 50-megapixel main camera and a 12-megapixel ultrawide.
Upfront, there's an 8-megapixel selfie camera."
<https://www.androidheadlines.com/2021/10/target-has-an-enticing-pixel-6-pre-order-deal.html>
The USA base pixel 6 at Target is $600 (plus local sales tax, if any).
"The base model will have a modest 8GB of RAM and up to 256GB of onboard
storage. Keeping the lights on is a 4,616mAh battery."
"It will have a 6.4-inch 1080p+ AMOLED display that can run at 90Hz.
Under that display will be a fingerprint scanner, and it will only
have a punch-hole up top to interrupt it. Under the hood, it will be using
Google's own Tensor SoC, marking Google's break away from Qualcomm's
Snapdragon chips.
The USA Pixel 6 Pro will start at $900 (plus local sales tax, if any).
"There will be 12GB of RAM, up to 512GB of storage, and a 5,000mAh battery"
"This phone will have a 6.7-inch 1440p+ AMOLED display that can run at
120Hz. It will share the under-display fingerprint scanner, punch-hole,
and the Tensor chip.
The camera package will be the same as the base model, but with the
addition of a 48-megapixel telephoto camera on the back."
Andy Burns
Oct 20, 2021, 12:33:11 PM10/20/21
to
AJL wrote:
> My 2 year old Galaxy S10+ received an update yesterday. I though
> maybe... But no A12, just an update. I'm not sure how long it will
> continue to receive updates...
I think the Galaxy S10 range /are/ supposed to get v12
> My 2 year old Galaxy S10+ received an update yesterday. I though
> maybe... But no A12, just an update. I'm not sure how long it will
> continue to receive updates...
Robin Goodfellow
Oct 20, 2021, 12:47:01 PM10/20/21
to
Andy Burns <use...@andyburns.uk> asked
> I know Arlen will say the framework modules are increasingly updatable via the
> APEX mechanism,
Android 12 APEX modules now updated completely independently of the carrier:
> APEX mechanism,
adbd com.google.android.adbd
Android Neural Network API Runtime com.google.android.neuralnetworks
Cell Broadcast com.google.android.cellbroadcast
Conscrypt com.google.android.conscrypt
DNS Resolver com.google.android.resolv
ExtServices APEX com.google.android.ext.services
IPsec/IKEv2 Library com.google.android.ipsec
Media Codecs com.google.android.media.swcodec
Media Framework Components com.google.android.media
Media Provider com.google.android.mediaprovider
Permission Controller
SDK Extensions com.google.android.sdkext
Statsd com.google.android.os.statsd
Tethering com.google.android.tethering
Time Zone Data 2 com.google.android.tzdata2
Time Zone Data com.google.android.tzdata
Wi-Fi(3) com.google.android.wifi
Android 12 APEX modules now updated completely independently of the carrier:
Captive Portal Login com.google.android.captiveportallogin
Documents UI com.google.android.documentsui
ExtServices APK com.google.android.ext.services
Module Metadata com.google.android.modulemetadata
Network Stack Components com.google.android.networkstack
Network Stack Permission com.google.android.networkstack.permissionconfig
Permission Controller APK com.google.android.permissioncontroller
Telemetry Train Version Package com.google.mainline.telemetry
I don't profess to fully understand how Android phones (as of Android 10)
are updated for security, but it seems from news reports alone that Google
is unilaterally pushing updates to those 25 core modules in Android 12
*Everything you need to know about Android's Project Mainline"
<https://www.xda-developers.com/android-project-mainline-modules-explanation/>
"Project Mainline, AKA ´Google Play System Updates,¡ was introduced in
Android 10 as a major effort to make core system components of Android
more modular and updatable. Mainline introduced a new ´APEX¡ filetype
specifically for system components, with the goal of shipping core Android
code through the Play Store as easily as you ship an app update."
"APEXes can only be created by Google or your device manufacturer,
so they can be noticeably more powerful and house critical boot-up
components like the app runtime."
> I see that ART is updatable as of v12, how do I see what ART
> version I have, so I can see if it ever gets updated?
https://stackoverflow.com/questions/38992964/list-of-android-devices-with-their-version-dvm-art
https://stackoverflow.com/questions/19830342/how-can-i-detect-the-android-runtime-dalvik-or-art
https://stackoverflow.com/questions/27046411/find-out-android-runtime-version
https://github.com/NativeScript/android-runtime/issues/93
Robin Goodfellow
Oct 20, 2021, 12:55:47 PM10/20/21
to
AJL <noe...@none.com> asked
Galaxy Fold, Galaxy Fold 5G, Galaxy Z Fold2, Galaxy Z Fold2 5G, Galaxy Z Fold3 5G, Galaxy Z Flip, Galaxy Z Flip 5G, Galaxy Z Flip3 5G
Galaxy S10, Galaxy S10+, Galaxy S10e, Galaxy S10 5G, Galaxy S10 Lite
Galaxy S20, Galaxy S20 5G, Galaxy S20+, Galaxy S20+ 5G, Galaxy S20 Ultra, Galaxy S20 Ultra 5G, Galaxy S20 FE, Galaxy S20 FE 5G, Galaxy S21 5G, Galaxy S21+ 5G, Galaxy S21 Ultra 5G
Galaxy Note10, Galaxy Note10 5G, Galaxy Note10+, Galaxy Note10+ 5G, Galaxy Note10 Lite, Galaxy Note20, Galaxy Note20 5G, Galaxy Note20 Ultra, Galaxy Note20 Ultra 5G
Galaxy A52, Galaxy A52 5G, Galaxy A52s 5G
Enterprise Models: Galaxy A50, Galaxy XCover4s, Galaxy Xcover FieldPro, Galaxy Xcover Pro, Galaxy Xcover5
Current Samsung Models for _Quarterly_ Security Updates
Galaxy S8 Active, Galaxy S9, Galaxy S9+
Galaxy Note9
Galaxy A20s, Galaxy A30s, Galaxy A40, Galaxy A50s, Galaxy A70s
Galaxy A01, Galaxy A01 Core, Galaxy A11, Galaxy A21, Galaxy A21s, Galaxy A31, Galaxy A41, Galaxy A51, Galaxy A51 5G, Galaxy A71, Galaxy A71 5G
Galaxy A02, Galaxy A02s, Galaxy A03s, Galaxy A12, Galaxy A22, Galaxy A22 5G, Galaxy A32, Galaxy A32 5G, Galaxy A42 5G, Galaxy A72, Galaxy A82 5G
Galaxy M01, Galaxy M11, Galaxy M21, Galaxy M21 2021, Galaxy M31, Galaxy M31s, Galaxy M51, Galaxy M12, Galaxy M22, Galaxy M32, Galaxy M42 5G, Galaxy M52 5G, Galaxy M62
Galaxy F12, Galaxy F22, Galaxy F42 5G, Galaxy F52 5G, Galaxy F62
Galaxy Tab A 8.4 (2020), Galaxy Tab A7, Galaxy Tab A7 Lite, Galaxy Tab Active2, Galaxy Tab Active Pro, Galaxy Tab Active3
Galaxy Tab S6 5G, Galaxy Tab S6 Lite, Galaxy Tab S7, Galaxy Tab S7+, Galaxy Tab S7 FE
W20 5G, W21 5G
Enterprise Models: Galaxy A8 (2018)
Current Samsung Models for _Biannual_ Security Updates
Galaxy A2 Core, Galaxy A6, Galaxy A6+, Galaxy A7 (2018), Galaxy A8+ (2018), Galaxy A8 Star, Galaxy A8s, Galaxy A9 (2018)
Galaxy A10, Galaxy A10e, Galaxy A10s, Galaxy A20e, Galaxy A20, Galaxy A30, Galaxy A60, Galaxy A70, Galaxy A80, Galaxy A90 5G
Galaxy J2 Core, Galaxy J3 Top, Galaxy J4, Galaxy J4+, Galaxy J4 Core, Galaxy J6, Galaxy J6+, Galaxy J7 Duo, Galaxy J7 Prime2, Galaxy J7 Top, Galaxy J7+, Galaxy J8
Galaxy M10, Galaxy M10s, Galaxy M20, Galaxy M30, Galaxy M30s, Galaxy M40
Galaxy Tab A 10.5 (2018), Galaxy Tab A 8 (2019), Galaxy Tab A 10.1 (2019), Galaxy Tab A with S pen, Galaxy Tab E 8 Refresh
Galaxy Tab S4, Galaxy Tab S5e, Galaxy Tab S6, Galaxy View2
https://security.samsungmobile.com/workScope.smsb
> My 2 year old Galaxy S10+ received an update yesterday.
Current Samsung Models for _Monthly_ Security Updates
Galaxy Fold, Galaxy Fold 5G, Galaxy Z Fold2, Galaxy Z Fold2 5G, Galaxy Z Fold3 5G, Galaxy Z Flip, Galaxy Z Flip 5G, Galaxy Z Flip3 5G
Galaxy S10, Galaxy S10+, Galaxy S10e, Galaxy S10 5G, Galaxy S10 Lite
Galaxy S20, Galaxy S20 5G, Galaxy S20+, Galaxy S20+ 5G, Galaxy S20 Ultra, Galaxy S20 Ultra 5G, Galaxy S20 FE, Galaxy S20 FE 5G, Galaxy S21 5G, Galaxy S21+ 5G, Galaxy S21 Ultra 5G
Galaxy Note10, Galaxy Note10 5G, Galaxy Note10+, Galaxy Note10+ 5G, Galaxy Note10 Lite, Galaxy Note20, Galaxy Note20 5G, Galaxy Note20 Ultra, Galaxy Note20 Ultra 5G
Galaxy A52, Galaxy A52 5G, Galaxy A52s 5G
Enterprise Models: Galaxy A50, Galaxy XCover4s, Galaxy Xcover FieldPro, Galaxy Xcover Pro, Galaxy Xcover5
Current Samsung Models for _Quarterly_ Security Updates
Galaxy S8 Active, Galaxy S9, Galaxy S9+
Galaxy Note9
Galaxy A20s, Galaxy A30s, Galaxy A40, Galaxy A50s, Galaxy A70s
Galaxy A01, Galaxy A01 Core, Galaxy A11, Galaxy A21, Galaxy A21s, Galaxy A31, Galaxy A41, Galaxy A51, Galaxy A51 5G, Galaxy A71, Galaxy A71 5G
Galaxy A02, Galaxy A02s, Galaxy A03s, Galaxy A12, Galaxy A22, Galaxy A22 5G, Galaxy A32, Galaxy A32 5G, Galaxy A42 5G, Galaxy A72, Galaxy A82 5G
Galaxy M01, Galaxy M11, Galaxy M21, Galaxy M21 2021, Galaxy M31, Galaxy M31s, Galaxy M51, Galaxy M12, Galaxy M22, Galaxy M32, Galaxy M42 5G, Galaxy M52 5G, Galaxy M62
Galaxy F12, Galaxy F22, Galaxy F42 5G, Galaxy F52 5G, Galaxy F62
Galaxy Tab A 8.4 (2020), Galaxy Tab A7, Galaxy Tab A7 Lite, Galaxy Tab Active2, Galaxy Tab Active Pro, Galaxy Tab Active3
Galaxy Tab S6 5G, Galaxy Tab S6 Lite, Galaxy Tab S7, Galaxy Tab S7+, Galaxy Tab S7 FE
W20 5G, W21 5G
Enterprise Models: Galaxy A8 (2018)
Current Samsung Models for _Biannual_ Security Updates
Galaxy A2 Core, Galaxy A6, Galaxy A6+, Galaxy A7 (2018), Galaxy A8+ (2018), Galaxy A8 Star, Galaxy A8s, Galaxy A9 (2018)
Galaxy A10, Galaxy A10e, Galaxy A10s, Galaxy A20e, Galaxy A20, Galaxy A30, Galaxy A60, Galaxy A70, Galaxy A80, Galaxy A90 5G
Galaxy J2 Core, Galaxy J3 Top, Galaxy J4, Galaxy J4+, Galaxy J4 Core, Galaxy J6, Galaxy J6+, Galaxy J7 Duo, Galaxy J7 Prime2, Galaxy J7 Top, Galaxy J7+, Galaxy J8
Galaxy M10, Galaxy M10s, Galaxy M20, Galaxy M30, Galaxy M30s, Galaxy M40
Galaxy Tab A 10.5 (2018), Galaxy Tab A 8 (2019), Galaxy Tab A 10.1 (2019), Galaxy Tab A with S pen, Galaxy Tab E 8 Refresh
Galaxy Tab S4, Galaxy Tab S5e, Galaxy Tab S6, Galaxy View2
https://security.samsungmobile.com/workScope.smsb
Joerg Lorenz
Oct 20, 2021, 1:01:24 PM10/20/21
to
Am 19.10.21 um 22:43 schrieb John McGaw:
The only thing I had to adjust is the size of texts and menus. They were
ways to big an not hamonic. Especially with the quick setting.
--
De gustibus non est disputandum
> If anybody actually cares about android stuff, 12 dropped today if you have
> a compatible device. I'm not sure that I like it. They are trying to be way
> to cute in my estimation and I can't find a way to change that ugly
> ridiculous analog clock widget back to something presentable.
Installed 12. Took me 20 min on my Pixel 4 with download und install.
> a compatible device. I'm not sure that I like it. They are trying to be way
> to cute in my estimation and I can't find a way to change that ugly
> ridiculous analog clock widget back to something presentable.
The only thing I had to adjust is the size of texts and menus. They were
ways to big an not hamonic. Especially with the quick setting.
--
De gustibus non est disputandum
Joerg Lorenz
Oct 20, 2021, 1:04:41 PM10/20/21
to
Am 20.10.21 um 17:55 schrieb AJL:
which was very satisfactory. Life must go on and the only constant thing
is change.
> Andy Burns wrote:
>
>> The new [A12] theme (Material You?) has more of the subtle
>> slidy/stretchy/swooshy effects, the whole screen has a slight
>> rubbery feel to it as you reach the limits of scrolling.
>>
>> Mildly annoying things to me ...
>
> Perhaps human nature? People (me in particular) dislike change.
That's exactly the issue. In a week or two I will have forgotten 11
>
>> The new [A12] theme (Material You?) has more of the subtle
>> slidy/stretchy/swooshy effects, the whole screen has a slight
>> rubbery feel to it as you reach the limits of scrolling.
>>
>> Mildly annoying things to me ...
>
> Perhaps human nature? People (me in particular) dislike change.
which was very satisfactory. Life must go on and the only constant thing
is change.
Robin Goodfellow
Oct 20, 2021, 1:05:01 PM10/20/21
to
Andy Burns <use...@andyburns.uk> asked
Galaxy S21 5G
Galaxy S21+ 5G
Galaxy S21 Ultra 5G
Galaxy S20 / S20 5G
Galaxy S20+ / S20+ 5G
Galaxy S20 Ultra / S20 Ultra 5G
Galaxy S20 FE / FE 5G
Galaxy S10 / S10 5G
Galaxy S10+
Galaxy S10e
Galaxy S10 Lite
Galaxy Note series phones getting Android 12
Galaxy Note 20 / Note 20 5G
Galaxy Note 20 Ultra / Note 20 Ultra 5G
Galaxy Note 10 / Note 10 5G
Galaxy Note 10+ / Note 10+ 5G
Galaxy Note 10 Lite
Galaxy Z series phones getting Android 12
Galaxy Z Fold 3
Galaxy Z Flip 3
Galaxy Z Fold 2 / Z Fold 2 5G
Galaxy Z Flip / Z Flip 5G
Galaxy Fold / Fold 5G
Galaxy A series phones getting Android 12
Galaxy A52s 5G
Galaxy A72
Galaxy A52 / A52 5G
Galaxy A42 / A42 5G
Galaxy A32 / A32 5G
Galaxy A22 / A22 5G
Galaxy A12
Galaxy A02s
Galaxy A02
Galaxy A71 / A71 5G
Galaxy A51 / A51 5G
Galaxy A41
Galaxy A31
Galaxy A21s
Galaxy A21
Galaxy A11
Galaxy A03s
Galaxy A Quantum
Galaxy M series phones getting Android 12
Galaxy M62
Galaxy M42 / M42 5G
Galaxy M32
Galaxy M12
Galaxy M02s
Galaxy M02
Galaxy M51
Galaxy M31s
Galaxy M31 Prime
Galaxy M21s
Galaxy M21
Galaxy M11
Galaxy M01s
Galaxy M01
Galaxy F series phones getting Android 12
Galaxy F62
Galaxy F52 5G
Galaxy F22
Galaxy F12
Galaxy F02s
Galaxy F41
Galaxy XCover phones getting Android 12
Galaxy XCover 5
Galaxy XCover Pro
Full list of Samsung Galaxy phones eligible for the (Android 12) update
<https://www.androidcentral.com/heres-when-your-samsung-phone-will-get-android-12>
> I think the Galaxy S10 range /are/ supposed to get v12
Galaxy S series phones getting Android 12
Galaxy S21 5G
Galaxy S21+ 5G
Galaxy S21 Ultra 5G
Galaxy S20 / S20 5G
Galaxy S20+ / S20+ 5G
Galaxy S20 Ultra / S20 Ultra 5G
Galaxy S20 FE / FE 5G
Galaxy S10 / S10 5G
Galaxy S10+
Galaxy S10e
Galaxy S10 Lite
Galaxy Note series phones getting Android 12
Galaxy Note 20 / Note 20 5G
Galaxy Note 20 Ultra / Note 20 Ultra 5G
Galaxy Note 10 / Note 10 5G
Galaxy Note 10+ / Note 10+ 5G
Galaxy Note 10 Lite
Galaxy Z series phones getting Android 12
Galaxy Z Fold 3
Galaxy Z Flip 3
Galaxy Z Fold 2 / Z Fold 2 5G
Galaxy Z Flip / Z Flip 5G
Galaxy Fold / Fold 5G
Galaxy A series phones getting Android 12
Galaxy A52s 5G
Galaxy A72
Galaxy A52 / A52 5G
Galaxy A42 / A42 5G
Galaxy A32 / A32 5G
Galaxy A22 / A22 5G
Galaxy A12
Galaxy A02s
Galaxy A02
Galaxy A71 / A71 5G
Galaxy A51 / A51 5G
Galaxy A41
Galaxy A31
Galaxy A21s
Galaxy A21
Galaxy A11
Galaxy A03s
Galaxy A Quantum
Galaxy M series phones getting Android 12
Galaxy M62
Galaxy M42 / M42 5G
Galaxy M32
Galaxy M12
Galaxy M02s
Galaxy M02
Galaxy M51
Galaxy M31s
Galaxy M31 Prime
Galaxy M21s
Galaxy M21
Galaxy M11
Galaxy M01s
Galaxy M01
Galaxy F series phones getting Android 12
Galaxy F62
Galaxy F52 5G
Galaxy F22
Galaxy F12
Galaxy F02s
Galaxy F41
Galaxy XCover phones getting Android 12
Galaxy XCover 5
Galaxy XCover Pro
Full list of Samsung Galaxy phones eligible for the (Android 12) update
<https://www.androidcentral.com/heres-when-your-samsung-phone-will-get-android-12>
AJL
Oct 20, 2021, 1:10:57 PM10/20/21
to
Robin Goodfellow wrote:
> AJL <noe...@none.com> asked
>> My 2 year old Galaxy S10+ received an update yesterday.
> Current Samsung Models for _Monthly_ Security Updates... Galaxy
> AJL <noe...@none.com> asked
>> My 2 year old Galaxy S10+ received an update yesterday.
> S10+... https://security.samsungmobile.com/workScope.smsb
>> I'm not sure how long it will continue to receive updates...
continue to receive updates but judging from the older models that still
do it likely will be awhile. Thanks.
Andy Burns
Oct 20, 2021, 1:25:39 PM10/20/21
to
Robin Goodfellow wrote:
> Andy Burns asked
updates into the system, now when I've had monthly fixes, the APEX updates could
have been rolled into what I received, but now that monthly updates have ended
for my Pixel3, it will be interesting to see if I get invited to reboot from
Play Store, to bring in latest APEX patches.
>> I see that ART is updatable as of v12, how do I see what ART
>> version I have, so I can see if it ever gets updated?
>
> That same question as been around, apparently, for over a decade:
After installing half a dozen "android info" type apps, it turns out that
GPU-Z shows ART version as "2.1.0" which seems quite a coarse number, not likely
to indicate every little tweak and update.
> Andy Burns asked
>
>> I know Arlen will say the framework modules are increasingly updatable via the
>> APEX mechanism,
>
> Android 12 APEX modules now updated completely independently of the carrier:
> [snip list]
>> I know Arlen will say the framework modules are increasingly updatable via the
>> APEX mechanism,
>
> Android 12 APEX modules now updated completely independently of the carrier:
>
> I don't profess to fully understand how Android phones (as of Android 10)
> are updated for security, but it seems from news reports alone that Google
> is unilaterally pushing updates to those 25 core modules in Android 12
When I looked into it, the APEX mechanism seemed to need a reboot to "pivot" the
> I don't profess to fully understand how Android phones (as of Android 10)
> are updated for security, but it seems from news reports alone that Google
> is unilaterally pushing updates to those 25 core modules in Android 12
updates into the system, now when I've had monthly fixes, the APEX updates could
have been rolled into what I received, but now that monthly updates have ended
for my Pixel3, it will be interesting to see if I get invited to reboot from
Play Store, to bring in latest APEX patches.
>> I see that ART is updatable as of v12, how do I see what ART
>> version I have, so I can see if it ever gets updated?
>
> That same question as been around, apparently, for over a decade:
GPU-Z shows ART version as "2.1.0" which seems quite a coarse number, not likely
to indicate every little tweak and update.
Robin Goodfellow
Oct 20, 2021, 1:38:15 PM10/20/21
to
AJL <noe...@none.com> asked
*Samsung promises four years of security updates for new phones*
<https://www.nextpit.com/samsung-promises-four-years-of-security-updates-for-new-phones>
*Covered devices for the four years of security updates*
Galaxy Z: Fold, Fold 5G, Z Fold 2, Z Fold 2 5G, Z Flip, Z Flip 5G;
Galaxy S:
S10, S10+, S10e, S10 5G, S10 Lite, S20, S20 5G, S20+, S20+ 5G,
S20 Ultra, S20 Ultra 5G, S20 FE, S20 FE 5G, S21 5G, S21+ 5G, S21 Ultra 5G;
Galaxy Note:
Note 10, Note 10 5G, Note 10+, Note 10+ 5G, Note 10 Lite,
Note 20, Note 20 5G, Note 20 Ultra, Note 20 Ultra 5G
Galaxy A:
A10, A10e, A10s, A20, A20s, A30, A30s, A40, A50, A50s, A60, A70,
A70s, A80, A90 5G, A11, A21, A21s, A31, A41, A51, A51 5G, A71, A71 5G,
A02s, A12, A32 5G, A42 5G;
Galaxy M:
M10s, M20, M30, M30s, M40, M11, M12, M21, M31, M31s, M51;
Galaxy XCover:
XCover4s, XCover FieldPro, XCover Pro;
Galaxy Tab:
Active Pro, Active3, A 8 (2019), A with S Pen, A 8.4 (2020),
A7, S5e, S6, S6 5G, S6 Lite, S7, S7+.
*These Samsung smartphones will receive long-term Android updates*
<https://www.nextpit.com/samsung-smartphones-long-term-android-updates>
These devices are supplied with Android updates over three generations:
Galaxy S:
Galaxy S20 Ultra 5G, S20 Ultra, S20+ 5G, S20+, S20 5G, S20 as well as the
S10 5G, S10+, S10, S10e, S10 Lite and future S series devices
Galaxy Note:
Galaxy Note20 Ultra 5G, Note20 Ultra, Note20 5G, Note20, Note10+ 5G,
Note10+, Note10 5G, Note10, Note10 Lite and future Note series devices
Galaxy Foldable:
Galaxy Z Fold2 5G, Z Fold2, Z Flip 5G, Z Flip, Fold 5G, Fold
and future Z Series devices
Galaxy A:
Galaxy A71 5G, A71, A51 5G, A51, A90 5G and selected future A-series
devices
Tablets:
Galaxy Tab S7+ 5G, Tab S7+, Tab S7 5G3, Tab S7, Tab S6 5G4, Tab S6,
Tab S6 Lite and future Tab-S devices
> I couldn't find anything in your link to show how long my S10+ will
> continue to receive updates but judging from the older models that still
> do it likely will be awhile. Thanks.
While clicking on the links in that article, these popped up:
> continue to receive updates but judging from the older models that still
> do it likely will be awhile. Thanks.
*Samsung promises four years of security updates for new phones*
<https://www.nextpit.com/samsung-promises-four-years-of-security-updates-for-new-phones>
*Covered devices for the four years of security updates*
Galaxy Z: Fold, Fold 5G, Z Fold 2, Z Fold 2 5G, Z Flip, Z Flip 5G;
Galaxy S:
S10, S10+, S10e, S10 5G, S10 Lite, S20, S20 5G, S20+, S20+ 5G,
S20 Ultra, S20 Ultra 5G, S20 FE, S20 FE 5G, S21 5G, S21+ 5G, S21 Ultra 5G;
Galaxy Note:
Note 10, Note 10 5G, Note 10+, Note 10+ 5G, Note 10 Lite,
Note 20, Note 20 5G, Note 20 Ultra, Note 20 Ultra 5G
Galaxy A:
A10, A10e, A10s, A20, A20s, A30, A30s, A40, A50, A50s, A60, A70,
A70s, A80, A90 5G, A11, A21, A21s, A31, A41, A51, A51 5G, A71, A71 5G,
A02s, A12, A32 5G, A42 5G;
Galaxy M:
M10s, M20, M30, M30s, M40, M11, M12, M21, M31, M31s, M51;
Galaxy XCover:
XCover4s, XCover FieldPro, XCover Pro;
Galaxy Tab:
Active Pro, Active3, A 8 (2019), A with S Pen, A 8.4 (2020),
A7, S5e, S6, S6 5G, S6 Lite, S7, S7+.
*These Samsung smartphones will receive long-term Android updates*
<https://www.nextpit.com/samsung-smartphones-long-term-android-updates>
These devices are supplied with Android updates over three generations:
Galaxy S:
Galaxy S20 Ultra 5G, S20 Ultra, S20+ 5G, S20+, S20 5G, S20 as well as the
S10 5G, S10+, S10, S10e, S10 Lite and future S series devices
Galaxy Note:
Galaxy Note20 Ultra 5G, Note20 Ultra, Note20 5G, Note20, Note10+ 5G,
Note10+, Note10 5G, Note10, Note10 Lite and future Note series devices
Galaxy Foldable:
Galaxy Z Fold2 5G, Z Fold2, Z Flip 5G, Z Flip, Fold 5G, Fold
and future Z Series devices
Galaxy A:
Galaxy A71 5G, A71, A51 5G, A51, A90 5G and selected future A-series
devices
Tablets:
Galaxy Tab S7+ 5G, Tab S7+, Tab S7 5G3, Tab S7, Tab S6 5G4, Tab S6,
Tab S6 Lite and future Tab-S devices
Robin Goodfellow
Oct 20, 2021, 2:03:13 PM10/20/21
to
Andy Burns <use...@andyburns.uk> asked
modules in Android 12 (24 core modules in Android 11) over Google Play.
I don't think many (any?) of us really understand _how_ the latest Android
phones are updated, simply because there are _multiple_ update channels.
a. Google pushes updates (via APEX but some of the updates are APKs)
b. The manufacturers (e.g., Samsung) seem to provide updates also
c. As do the hardware manufacturers (e.g., Qualcomm thru Project Treble)
Are the _carriers_ even involved anymore in updates to Android 12 phones?
> After installing half a dozen "android info" type apps, it turns out that
> GPU-Z shows ART version as "2.1.0" which seems quite a coarse number, not likely
> to indicate every little tweak and update.
I agree with you, at least based only on my search for you on the query
keywords, it's a long-standing issue (over 10 years) that the Android
Runtime Version isn't as easy to obtain as we like (and, as you noted, the
specific subversion may be impossible to obtain for all I currently know).
My favorite goto app for analyzing APKs & core modules is "App Manager"
<https://github.com/MuntashirAkon/AppManager>
But I have others, such as "Dalvik Explorer" that "might" tell us something.
<https://f-droid.org/en/packages/org.jessies.dalvikexplorer/>
But I don't even know what to look for (nor even in which module to look).
Do you?
I looked at Google Play Services with that App Manager but there are just
pages and pages and pages and pages of "stuff" but I don't know what to look
for, or where (or even if it's clearly stated what the ART version will be).
Google Play Services (com.google.android.gms)
App Info, Activities, Services, Receivers, Providers, App Ops, Permissions,
Features, Configurations, Signatures, Shared Libs, etc. are all there.
Pages and pages and pages of information.
Is the Android Runtime version listed?
Dunno.
I'm never afraid to admit I don't even know where to look.
--
Someone might know who can tell us the answer.
> When I looked into it, the APEX mechanism seemed to need a reboot to "pivot" the
> updates into the system, now when I've had monthly fixes, the APEX updates could
> have been rolled into what I received, but now that monthly updates have ended
> for my Pixel3, it will be interesting to see if I get invited to reboot from
> Play Store, to bring in latest APEX patches.
Thanks for adding information on _how_ the heck Google updates the 25 core
> updates into the system, now when I've had monthly fixes, the APEX updates could
> have been rolled into what I received, but now that monthly updates have ended
> for my Pixel3, it will be interesting to see if I get invited to reboot from
> Play Store, to bring in latest APEX patches.
modules in Android 12 (24 core modules in Android 11) over Google Play.
I don't think many (any?) of us really understand _how_ the latest Android
phones are updated, simply because there are _multiple_ update channels.
a. Google pushes updates (via APEX but some of the updates are APKs)
b. The manufacturers (e.g., Samsung) seem to provide updates also
c. As do the hardware manufacturers (e.g., Qualcomm thru Project Treble)
Are the _carriers_ even involved anymore in updates to Android 12 phones?
> After installing half a dozen "android info" type apps, it turns out that
> GPU-Z shows ART version as "2.1.0" which seems quite a coarse number, not likely
> to indicate every little tweak and update.
keywords, it's a long-standing issue (over 10 years) that the Android
Runtime Version isn't as easy to obtain as we like (and, as you noted, the
specific subversion may be impossible to obtain for all I currently know).
My favorite goto app for analyzing APKs & core modules is "App Manager"
<https://github.com/MuntashirAkon/AppManager>
But I have others, such as "Dalvik Explorer" that "might" tell us something.
<https://f-droid.org/en/packages/org.jessies.dalvikexplorer/>
But I don't even know what to look for (nor even in which module to look).
Do you?
I looked at Google Play Services with that App Manager but there are just
pages and pages and pages and pages of "stuff" but I don't know what to look
for, or where (or even if it's clearly stated what the ART version will be).
Google Play Services (com.google.android.gms)
App Info, Activities, Services, Receivers, Providers, App Ops, Permissions,
Features, Configurations, Signatures, Shared Libs, etc. are all there.
Pages and pages and pages of information.
Is the Android Runtime version listed?
Dunno.
I'm never afraid to admit I don't even know where to look.
--
Someone might know who can tell us the answer.
Robin Goodfellow
Oct 20, 2021, 2:15:06 PM10/20/21
to
Robin Goodfellow <Ancient...@Heaven.Net> asked
Specifically now that Google can (and does) update Android over Google Play.
It's a good question you bring up.
I don't know when the Google Play update of core modules ends (if ever).
Certainly Google can (and does) update some key Android components forever.
For example, Google updates "Chrome" (which is a key app on all Android
phones) forever (or at least some version of "forever" meaning the key
Android apps don't have a pre-planned EOL date so the app updates on Google
Play will almost certainly outlast the physical life of the phone itself).
But for the 25 core components updated over Google Play Services, how long
will it be that Google will be automatically _pushing_ those to your phone?
I am not afraid to say that I don't know when they stop pushing them, (nor
even _if_ they stop pushing them) to your phone using Google Play Services.
More to your question, of the 25 core components updated over Google Play,
how many of them are available for _manual_ updates by the users themselves?
I don't know.
Do you?
--
Does anyone?
> I don't think many (any?) of us really understand _how_ the latest Android
> phones are updated, simply because there are _multiple_ update channels.
> a. Google pushes updates (via APEX but some of the updates are APKs)
> b. The manufacturers (e.g., Samsung) seem to provide updates also
> c. As do the hardware manufacturers (e.g., Qualcomm thru Project Treble)
>
> Are the _carriers_ even involved anymore in updates to Android 12 phones?
I forgot to directly address your point of _when_ Google updates your phone.
> phones are updated, simply because there are _multiple_ update channels.
> a. Google pushes updates (via APEX but some of the updates are APKs)
> b. The manufacturers (e.g., Samsung) seem to provide updates also
> c. As do the hardware manufacturers (e.g., Qualcomm thru Project Treble)
>
> Are the _carriers_ even involved anymore in updates to Android 12 phones?
Specifically now that Google can (and does) update Android over Google Play.
It's a good question you bring up.
I don't know when the Google Play update of core modules ends (if ever).
Certainly Google can (and does) update some key Android components forever.
For example, Google updates "Chrome" (which is a key app on all Android
phones) forever (or at least some version of "forever" meaning the key
Android apps don't have a pre-planned EOL date so the app updates on Google
Play will almost certainly outlast the physical life of the phone itself).
But for the 25 core components updated over Google Play Services, how long
will it be that Google will be automatically _pushing_ those to your phone?
I am not afraid to say that I don't know when they stop pushing them, (nor
even _if_ they stop pushing them) to your phone using Google Play Services.
More to your question, of the 25 core components updated over Google Play,
how many of them are available for _manual_ updates by the users themselves?
I don't know.
Do you?
--
Does anyone?
AJL
Oct 20, 2021, 5:57:09 PM10/20/21
to
>> I couldn't find anything in your [snipped] link to show how long
Since the four years begins at the model release date I
will actually get 3 years and 6mo for my S10+ because of its late
purchase. So if you wait awhile to get a good price, you may lose a bit
on the update time. I say "may" because I had the same situation with
this Chromebook bought late in the product cycle. However Google has
extended its AUE twice so currently I will get around 4.5 years on it
also. I think Windows does it a bit better on the update longevity...
>> my S10+ will continue to receive updates but judging from the
>> older models that still do it likely will be awhile. Thanks.
> While clicking on the links in that article, these popped up:
> *Samsung promises four years of security updates for new phones*
> <https://www.nextpit.com/samsung-promises-four-years-of-security-updates-for-new-phones>
Great. Thanks again.
>> older models that still do it likely will be awhile. Thanks.
> While clicking on the links in that article, these popped up:
> *Samsung promises four years of security updates for new phones*
> <https://www.nextpit.com/samsung-promises-four-years-of-security-updates-for-new-phones>
Since the four years begins at the model release date I
will actually get 3 years and 6mo for my S10+ because of its late
purchase. So if you wait awhile to get a good price, you may lose a bit
on the update time. I say "may" because I had the same situation with
this Chromebook bought late in the product cycle. However Google has
extended its AUE twice so currently I will get around 4.5 years on it
also. I think Windows does it a bit better on the update longevity...
Robin Goodfellow
Oct 20, 2021, 6:36:42 PM10/20/21
to
AJL <noe...@none.com> asked
should point out the unknown question which Andy & I have pondered.
When (if ever) does Google stop _pushing_ updates over Google Play Services?
And, more to the point, does Google provide the updates _after_ that date?
If so, the workaround is to manually pull the updates over Google Play.
Or, since Google open sources every single one of those 25 core modules
(AFAIK), a more difficult workaround might be to install the open source
version of those 25 apps (if possible) when that EOL date finally arrives.
In summary:
a. Google updates 25 core Android 12 components for multiple years
b. And then, who knows, but Google might continue to make updates available
c. Even so, Google updates all their key Android apps (maps, chrome, etc.)
d. And Google open sources the 25 core Android modules for further updates
e. Even Qualcomm is providing drivers via the Google Play Services mechanism
So what does that leave us that is _not_ updated over the APEX mechanism?
f. Manufacturer bloatware
g. Carrier bloatware
h. User installed apps
If that summary above is anywhere near accurate, almost everything is
_already_ updated forever (for values of "forever" that don't entail a known
EOL date anyway) that you care about.
Isn't it?
What's _not_ updated forever (using forever as having no known EOL date)?
> Since the four years begins at the model release date I
> will actually get 3 years and 6mo for my S10+ because of its late
> purchase. So if you wait awhile to get a good price, you may lose a bit
> on the update time. I say "may" because I had the same situation with
> this Chromebook bought late in the product cycle. However Google has
> extended its AUE twice so currently I will get around 4.5 years on it
> also. I think Windows does it a bit better on the update longevity...
This is good information about the final EOL data for updates where we
> will actually get 3 years and 6mo for my S10+ because of its late
> purchase. So if you wait awhile to get a good price, you may lose a bit
> on the update time. I say "may" because I had the same situation with
> this Chromebook bought late in the product cycle. However Google has
> extended its AUE twice so currently I will get around 4.5 years on it
> also. I think Windows does it a bit better on the update longevity...
should point out the unknown question which Andy & I have pondered.
When (if ever) does Google stop _pushing_ updates over Google Play Services?
And, more to the point, does Google provide the updates _after_ that date?
If so, the workaround is to manually pull the updates over Google Play.
Or, since Google open sources every single one of those 25 core modules
(AFAIK), a more difficult workaround might be to install the open source
version of those 25 apps (if possible) when that EOL date finally arrives.
In summary:
a. Google updates 25 core Android 12 components for multiple years
b. And then, who knows, but Google might continue to make updates available
c. Even so, Google updates all their key Android apps (maps, chrome, etc.)
d. And Google open sources the 25 core Android modules for further updates
e. Even Qualcomm is providing drivers via the Google Play Services mechanism
So what does that leave us that is _not_ updated over the APEX mechanism?
f. Manufacturer bloatware
g. Carrier bloatware
h. User installed apps
If that summary above is anywhere near accurate, almost everything is
_already_ updated forever (for values of "forever" that don't entail a known
EOL date anyway) that you care about.
Isn't it?
What's _not_ updated forever (using forever as having no known EOL date)?
FromTheRafters
Oct 20, 2021, 9:19:10 PM10/20/21
to
John McGaw used his or her keyboard to write :
"Everyone was busy jamming the Google Store trying to lodge their pre-orders
in for a Pixel 6 or Pixel 6 Pro. Another place you could have done it was at
Google's own MVNO, Google Fi. And there's plenty of reason to do it here,
too.
Much like the Google Store, Fi is giving away Pixel Buds A-series for every
pre-order. Unlike the Google Store, you'll also be getting $200 in service
credits as well. "
Google Fi is offering switchers $200 plus some Pixel Buds for their Pixel 6
<https://www.androidpolice.com/google-fi-pixel-6-pro-preorder-promo/>
in for a Pixel 6 or Pixel 6 Pro. Another place you could have done it was at
Google's own MVNO, Google Fi. And there's plenty of reason to do it here,
too.
Much like the Google Store, Fi is giving away Pixel Buds A-series for every
pre-order. Unlike the Google Store, you'll also be getting $200 in service
credits as well. "
Google Fi is offering switchers $200 plus some Pixel Buds for their Pixel 6
<https://www.androidpolice.com/google-fi-pixel-6-pro-preorder-promo/>
AJL
Oct 20, 2021, 10:09:05 PM10/20/21
to
Robin Goodfellow wrote:
> When (if ever) does Google stop _pushing_ updates over Google Play
> Services?
This Chromebook doesn't let me sideload Android apps (in normal
> When (if ever) does Google stop _pushing_ updates over Google Play
> Services?
operation) for "security reasons" but it does let me turn off the Play
Store automatic updates to its Android apps. Seems odd doesn't it? A
design goof or is there no security risk to the Chrome OS from
downloaded but later out of date Android apps?
I leave the automatic updates off because the Windows emulator app
CrossOver that I use to run this Windows SeaMonkey app I'm posting with
says it's a beta/trial version app. I'm worried that an automatic update
might someday disable it. And there are just no good Android or Chrome
OS newsreaders to replace it with.
So I just manually update the Android apps I want to. Great security, huh...
Robin Goodfellow
Oct 20, 2021, 10:42:03 PM10/20/21
to
AJL <noe...@none.com> asked
I'm well aware some people feel more scared than I am of technology so they
desperately want to be restricted in what they can do, feeling that those
many restrictions on what they are allowed to do increase their security.
Back to the unknown questions, the key answers I'd love to know are:
1. Does Google _ever_ stop pushing updates to the 25 core components?
2. If Google does stop pushing updates after a few years, can we pull them?
3. What else is a critical part of the OS _outside_ of those 25 components?
Note that all the key Android default apps (like Google Maps or GMail or
Chrome or YouTube or Messages, etc.) are already updated forever (with
"forever" meaning they don't have any EOL date that is planned ahead of time
based on the age of the phone).
So what isn't already updated forever on Android?
> So I just manually update the Android apps I want to. Great security, huh..
Personally, I consider having the flexibility contributes to security but
I'm well aware some people feel more scared than I am of technology so they
desperately want to be restricted in what they can do, feeling that those
many restrictions on what they are allowed to do increase their security.
Back to the unknown questions, the key answers I'd love to know are:
1. Does Google _ever_ stop pushing updates to the 25 core components?
2. If Google does stop pushing updates after a few years, can we pull them?
3. What else is a critical part of the OS _outside_ of those 25 components?
Note that all the key Android default apps (like Google Maps or GMail or
Chrome or YouTube or Messages, etc.) are already updated forever (with
"forever" meaning they don't have any EOL date that is planned ahead of time
based on the age of the phone).
So what isn't already updated forever on Android?
Andy Burns
Oct 21, 2021, 3:37:32 AM10/21/21
to
Robin Goodfellow wrote:
> I forgot to directly address your point of_when_ Google updates your phone.
above it, and of course apps themselves; but it excludes everything underneath
the jvm such as kernel, SoC firmware, other firmware.
> For example, Google updates "Chrome" (which is a key app on all Android
> phones) forever (or at least some version of "forever" meaning the key
> Android apps don't have a pre-planned EOL date so the app updates on Google
> Play will almost certainly outlast the physical life of the phone itself).
>
> But for the 25 core components updated over Google Play Services, how long
> will it be that Google will be automatically_pushing_ those to your phone?
I suppose we can't know, there might be a version bump of Play services where
old phones are deemed too old to run that?
> I am not afraid to say that I don't know when they stop pushing them, (nor
> even_if_ they stop pushing them) to your phone using Google Play Services.
Hunt for .apex files, I guess
<https://android.googlesource.com/platform/packages/modules/ArtPrebuilt/+/613f7e18764b7c37bbe2306a91c1f9820a8fc160>
Even for the betas before they decided not to build the .apex files, I can't
download the built files
> I forgot to directly address your point of_when_ Google updates your phone.
> Specifically now that Google can (and does) update Android over Google Play.
>
> It's a good question you bring up.
> I don't know when the Google Play update of core modules ends (if ever).
>
> Certainly Google can (and does) update some key Android components forever.
yes, so now with v12 that includes the jvm itself, large chunks of the framework
>
> It's a good question you bring up.
> I don't know when the Google Play update of core modules ends (if ever).
>
> Certainly Google can (and does) update some key Android components forever.
above it, and of course apps themselves; but it excludes everything underneath
the jvm such as kernel, SoC firmware, other firmware.
> For example, Google updates "Chrome" (which is a key app on all Android
> phones) forever (or at least some version of "forever" meaning the key
> Android apps don't have a pre-planned EOL date so the app updates on Google
> Play will almost certainly outlast the physical life of the phone itself).
>
> But for the 25 core components updated over Google Play Services, how long
I suppose we can't know, there might be a version bump of Play services where
old phones are deemed too old to run that?
> I am not afraid to say that I don't know when they stop pushing them, (nor
>
> More to your question, of the 25 core components updated over Google Play,
> how many of them are available for_manual_ updates by the users themselves?
> More to your question, of the 25 core components updated over Google Play,
Hunt for .apex files, I guess
<https://android.googlesource.com/platform/packages/modules/ArtPrebuilt/+/613f7e18764b7c37bbe2306a91c1f9820a8fc160>
Even for the betas before they decided not to build the .apex files, I can't
download the built files
Andy Burns
Oct 21, 2021, 3:47:20 AM10/21/21
to
Andy Burns wrote:
> <https://android.googlesource.com/platform/packages/modules/ArtPrebuilt/+/613f7e18764b7c37bbe2306a91c1f9820a8fc160>
>
> Even for the betas before they decided not to build the .apex files, I can't
> download the built files
But if you download the tarball for beta4, the .apex files are included.
> <https://android.googlesource.com/platform/packages/modules/ArtPrebuilt/+/613f7e18764b7c37bbe2306a91c1f9820a8fc160>
>
> Even for the betas before they decided not to build the .apex files, I can't
> download the built files
<https://android.googlesource.com/platform/packages/modules/ArtPrebuilt/+archive/refs/heads/android-s-beta-4.tar.gz>
The Real Bev
Oct 21, 2021, 1:35:46 PM10/21/21
to
On 10/20/2021 08:55 AM, AJL wrote:
> Andy Burns wrote:
>
>> The new [A12] theme (Material You?) has more of the subtle
>> slidy/stretchy/swooshy effects, the whole screen has a slight
>> rubbery feel to it as you reach the limits of scrolling.
>>
>> Mildly annoying things to me ...
>
> Perhaps human nature? People (me in particular) dislike change. I
> recently updated one of my laptops from W10 to W11 and dislike (hate?)
> the GUI.
I chose a different launcher (Nova) several phones ago, and it carried
> Andy Burns wrote:
>
>> The new [A12] theme (Material You?) has more of the subtle
>> slidy/stretchy/swooshy effects, the whole screen has a slight
>> rubbery feel to it as you reach the limits of scrolling.
>>
>> Mildly annoying things to me ...
>
> Perhaps human nature? People (me in particular) dislike change. I
> recently updated one of my laptops from W10 to W11 and dislike (hate?)
> the GUI.
over from the Motorola 5 to the Pixel2. I didn't notice a significant
change when I updated from 10 to 11. No idea what the stock GUI looks
like, but Nova offers far more customization than I'm willing to bother
with. Try it, you might like it.
> Fortunately I still have this Chromebook and the other w10
> laptop to pacify me for awhile until I suck it up and learn to feel
> comfortable with the new GUI. On the other hand I could maybe just give
> it to a grandkid? Would be win-win?
>
> On the other hand W11 is supposed to eventually run Android apps. But
> from what I've seen so far it may not be that great. One article says
> you'll be stuck with the Amazon app store. And all the "sneak" photos
> I've seen so far show the apps running in a phone sized window, none
> full screen like my current W10 Android emulator does with many. Wait and
> see I guess...
>
>> It's a shame that the Pixel3 receives this v12 update and then stops
>> receiving security updates at the same time, why not give a final
>> year of fixes on the updated version?
>
> My 2 year old Galaxy S10+ received an update yesterday. I though
> maybe... But no A12, just an update. I'm not sure how long it will
> continue to receive updates...
dangerously. So far, so good.
--
Cheers, Bev
"I believe that forgiving [terrorists] is God's function.
Our job is to arrange the meeting."
- Norman Schwartzkopf
AJL
Oct 21, 2021, 3:04:40 PM10/21/21
to
The Real Bev wrote:
> Most of my stuff is too old for updates. ALL, probably. I like to
> live dangerously. So far, so good.
From what I read the bigger danger is using the Play Store. After
> Most of my stuff is too old for updates. ALL, probably. I like to
> live dangerously. So far, so good.
several thousand folks download and use a particular app it's reported
to contain malware. Oops...
Andy Burns
Oct 21, 2021, 3:22:19 PM10/21/21
to
Andy Burns wrote:
> Will report back ...
Well, my battery life has been really crap today, a certain amount of that will
be because I was fiddling with it to check what's changed, but needs keeping an
eye on ...
> Will report back ...
Well, my battery life has been really crap today, a certain amount of that will
be because I was fiddling with it to check what's changed, but needs keeping an
eye on ...
Robin Goodfellow
Oct 21, 2021, 3:56:36 PM10/21/21
to
The Real Bev <bashl...@gmail.com> asked
from T-Mobile, to my old $200 Moto-G from Google, to my old $130 LG Stylo 3
Plus from Costco, to my old $100 Moto G7 from Google Fi, to my current free
Samsung Galaxy A325G from T-Mobile (notice Android gets better, faster, and
cheaper over time, like all consumer electronics other than iPhones).
That spans at least half a dozen Android versions, where I would agree with
The Real Bev that the look and feel (at least from the homescreen) doesn't
change all that much, if at all.
You can even _export_ your homescreen & import it back so that the app icons
are exactly where you had them on the new phone as they were on the old.
Since you already save all your app APKs in the same hierarchy as the
homescreen folders, you can repopulate the homescreen folders one by one as
each APK you re-install takes the place of the placeholder nova gave it.
You don't even need to be on the Internet since this all "just works."
(BTW, Steve should list this as yet another simple basic functionality that
just works on Android and yet which is completely impossible on iOS.)
> Most of my stuff is too old for updates. ALL, probably.
I think that's a false presumption that they're too old for updates.
Last we checked, Google updated the core apps for over 8 years.
Are your Android phones really more than 8 years old?
> I like to live dangerously. So far, so good.
I realize you're stating this in jest, as it's not "dangerous" to not update
the apps to the latest version, and, in fact, I myself almost never update
an app that I don't know has something I want in the new version (which is
rare).
But can you name even a single app that you installed that you can't update?
Can you even name a single default app that was there that you can't update?
> I chose a different launcher (Nova) several phones ago, and it carried
> over from the Motorola 5 to the Pixel2. I didn't notice a significant
> change when I updated from 10 to 11. No idea what the stock GUI looks
> like, but Nova offers far more customization than I'm willing to bother
> with. Try it, you might like it.
I've been using the free nova launcher for years, on my old $350 Nexus 5
> over from the Motorola 5 to the Pixel2. I didn't notice a significant
> change when I updated from 10 to 11. No idea what the stock GUI looks
> like, but Nova offers far more customization than I'm willing to bother
> with. Try it, you might like it.
from T-Mobile, to my old $200 Moto-G from Google, to my old $130 LG Stylo 3
Plus from Costco, to my old $100 Moto G7 from Google Fi, to my current free
Samsung Galaxy A325G from T-Mobile (notice Android gets better, faster, and
cheaper over time, like all consumer electronics other than iPhones).
That spans at least half a dozen Android versions, where I would agree with
The Real Bev that the look and feel (at least from the homescreen) doesn't
change all that much, if at all.
You can even _export_ your homescreen & import it back so that the app icons
are exactly where you had them on the new phone as they were on the old.
Since you already save all your app APKs in the same hierarchy as the
homescreen folders, you can repopulate the homescreen folders one by one as
each APK you re-install takes the place of the placeholder nova gave it.
You don't even need to be on the Internet since this all "just works."
(BTW, Steve should list this as yet another simple basic functionality that
just works on Android and yet which is completely impossible on iOS.)
> Most of my stuff is too old for updates. ALL, probably.
Last we checked, Google updated the core apps for over 8 years.
Are your Android phones really more than 8 years old?
> I like to live dangerously. So far, so good.
the apps to the latest version, and, in fact, I myself almost never update
an app that I don't know has something I want in the new version (which is
rare).
But can you name even a single app that you installed that you can't update?
Can you even name a single default app that was there that you can't update?
Robin Goodfellow
Oct 21, 2021, 4:02:10 PM10/21/21
to
AJL <noe...@none.com> asked
incapable of making decisions given they are deathly afraid of everything.
It's a wonder people who are so unreasonably afraid can drive an automobile.
It's not Toyota's fault if you choose to add a bad part that failed on you.
> From what I read the bigger danger is using the Play Store. After
> several thousand folks download and use a particular app it's reported
> to contain malware. Oops...
You sound much like you have the mentality of Apple owners who are almost
> several thousand folks download and use a particular app it's reported
> to contain malware. Oops...
incapable of making decisions given they are deathly afraid of everything.
It's a wonder people who are so unreasonably afraid can drive an automobile.
It's not Toyota's fault if you choose to add a bad part that failed on you.
AJL
Oct 21, 2021, 4:28:28 PM10/21/21
to
Robin Goodfellow wrote:
> can you name even a single app that you installed that you can't
> update?
The Groundhog newsreader. It's my favorite Android newsreader app. It
> can you name even a single app that you installed that you can't
> update?
works good up to A9 but becomes reader only (no posting) after that.
That's because its icon on the navigation bar disappears in later
Android versions and several functions are lost. But I still use it to
catch up on Usenet on my phone when out. If a reply is needed I use
another reader when I get home. Fortunately it still works fine on my
Amazon Fire OS tablets. There's something to be said for being a few
Android steps behind the crowd...
Robin Goodfellow
Oct 21, 2021, 4:31:43 PM10/21/21
to
Andy Burns <use...@andyburns.uk> asked
think may be wrong (but maybe you know more than I do so maybe I'm wrong?).
It's a delicate situation with some people in those circumstances where I'm
not sure who is right and who is wrong (and I'm not a delicate person).
What I care about is the truth. Hence I must doublecheck with you on that.
Q: Are you sure SOC firmware isn't updated (via Project Treble)?
For example, it's my understanding recent versions of Qualcomm GPU firmware
are already being updated over Google Play Services in Android 12 (see sig).
I get your point if you're saying it's not _all_ firmware (but won't it be
all "important" firmware, pretty soon, particularly with Google's new SOCs?)
The kernel is more problematic where I see that there are certainly ways to
get Android 12 kernels (if I understand the references that I only skimmed).
It appears Android 12's kernel may already be open source; is that correct?
>> But for the 25 core components updated over Google Play Services, how long
>> will it be that Google will be automatically_pushing_ those to your phone?
>
> I suppose we can't know, there might be a version bump of Play services where
> old phones are deemed too old to run that?
I understand, where we already knew from another thread that Android version
6 was the bottom level of when Google won't update automatically over GPS.
But Android 6 was released in October 2015 so it's six years old.
Android phones built in the past half-dozen years "should" be updatable over
Play Services, should they not?
The question is which modules will Google choose to update of the 25 current
core modules and more importantly, when will Google _stop_ updating them?
There's so much I don't know about how Google updates Android that we should
all pitch in together so that everyone can help flesh out those answers.
--
*Android 12 Updates Via Google Play: What Does It Mean?*
<https://fossbytes.com/android-12-updates-via-google-play/>*Regular Google
*NNAPI updates to Qualcomm Snapdragon mobile platforms*
<https://www.qualcomm.com/news/onq/2021/05/20/announced-google-io-2021-regular-google-nnapi-updates-qualcomm-snapdragon-mobile>
*Google and Qualcomm partner to bring faster neural network updates*
<https://9to5google.com/2021/05/24/qualcomm-google-android-neural-updates/>
*Android 12 source code pushed to AOSP*
<https://www.cnx-software.com/2021/10/05/android-12-source-code-pushed-to-aosp/>
*How to Update your Android Kernel*
<https://appuals.com/how-to-update-your-android-kernel-to-latest-linux-stable/>
*Android Common Kernels*
<https://source.android.com/devices/architecture/kernel/android-common>
*Adaptive Android Kernel Live Patching*
<https://www.usenix.org/system/files/conference/usenixsecurity17/sec17-chen.pdf>
>> Certainly Google can (and does) update some key Android components forever.
>
> yes, so now with v12 that includes the jvm itself, large chunks of the framework
> above it, and of course apps themselves; but it excludes everything underneath
> the jvm such as kernel, SoC firmware, other firmware.
I must be clear that you know more than I do, and yet, you say things that I
>
> yes, so now with v12 that includes the jvm itself, large chunks of the framework
> above it, and of course apps themselves; but it excludes everything underneath
> the jvm such as kernel, SoC firmware, other firmware.
think may be wrong (but maybe you know more than I do so maybe I'm wrong?).
It's a delicate situation with some people in those circumstances where I'm
not sure who is right and who is wrong (and I'm not a delicate person).
What I care about is the truth. Hence I must doublecheck with you on that.
Q: Are you sure SOC firmware isn't updated (via Project Treble)?
For example, it's my understanding recent versions of Qualcomm GPU firmware
are already being updated over Google Play Services in Android 12 (see sig).
I get your point if you're saying it's not _all_ firmware (but won't it be
all "important" firmware, pretty soon, particularly with Google's new SOCs?)
The kernel is more problematic where I see that there are certainly ways to
get Android 12 kernels (if I understand the references that I only skimmed).
It appears Android 12's kernel may already be open source; is that correct?
>> But for the 25 core components updated over Google Play Services, how long
>> will it be that Google will be automatically_pushing_ those to your phone?
>
> I suppose we can't know, there might be a version bump of Play services where
> old phones are deemed too old to run that?
6 was the bottom level of when Google won't update automatically over GPS.
But Android 6 was released in October 2015 so it's six years old.
Android phones built in the past half-dozen years "should" be updatable over
Play Services, should they not?
The question is which modules will Google choose to update of the 25 current
core modules and more importantly, when will Google _stop_ updating them?
There's so much I don't know about how Google updates Android that we should
all pitch in together so that everyone can help flesh out those answers.
--
*Android 12 Updates Via Google Play: What Does It Mean?*
<https://fossbytes.com/android-12-updates-via-google-play/>*Regular Google
*NNAPI updates to Qualcomm Snapdragon mobile platforms*
<https://www.qualcomm.com/news/onq/2021/05/20/announced-google-io-2021-regular-google-nnapi-updates-qualcomm-snapdragon-mobile>
*Google and Qualcomm partner to bring faster neural network updates*
<https://9to5google.com/2021/05/24/qualcomm-google-android-neural-updates/>
*Android 12 source code pushed to AOSP*
<https://www.cnx-software.com/2021/10/05/android-12-source-code-pushed-to-aosp/>
*How to Update your Android Kernel*
<https://appuals.com/how-to-update-your-android-kernel-to-latest-linux-stable/>
*Android Common Kernels*
<https://source.android.com/devices/architecture/kernel/android-common>
*Adaptive Android Kernel Live Patching*
<https://www.usenix.org/system/files/conference/usenixsecurity17/sec17-chen.pdf>
Robin Goodfellow
Oct 21, 2021, 4:33:54 PM10/21/21
to
Andy Burns <use...@andyburns.uk> asked
than you do, you certainly know more than I do about these APEX files.
Are you intimating, with that URL, that we can manually update some of those
25 key Android framework core modules via the "googlesource" method above?
> But if you download the tarball for beta4, the .apex files are included.
> <https://android.googlesource.com/platform/packages/modules/ArtPrebuilt/+archive/refs/heads/android-s-beta-4.tar.gz>
You know more than most of us do, and even if there are some who know more
> <https://android.googlesource.com/platform/packages/modules/ArtPrebuilt/+archive/refs/heads/android-s-beta-4.tar.gz>
than you do, you certainly know more than I do about these APEX files.
Are you intimating, with that URL, that we can manually update some of those
25 key Android framework core modules via the "googlesource" method above?
AJL
Oct 21, 2021, 4:42:45 PM10/21/21
to
Robin Goodfellow wrote:
> AJL <noe...@none.com> asked
>> From what I read the bigger danger is using the Play Store. After
>> several thousand folks download and use a particular app it's
>> reported to contain malware. Oops...
> You sound much like you have the mentality of Apple owners who are
> almost incapable of making decisions given they are deathly afraid
> of everything.
Aren't you the one who's paranoid of all things Google? Mirror time...
> AJL <noe...@none.com> asked
>> From what I read the bigger danger is using the Play Store. After
>> several thousand folks download and use a particular app it's
>> reported to contain malware. Oops...
> You sound much like you have the mentality of Apple owners who are
> almost incapable of making decisions given they are deathly afraid
> of everything.
> It's a wonder people who are so unreasonably afraid can drive an
> automobile.
> It's not Toyota's fault if you choose to add a bad part that failed
> on you.
bad. And this sock was doing so well too. So I'm out before the real
insults start. You can have the last words...
Andy Burns
Oct 21, 2021, 4:56:41 PM10/21/21
to
updates, google should stick them on a different server somewhere that it sees
them and pulls them down and applies them, just thought it'd be interesting to
try and dissect them ... no time to look yet.
Robin Goodfellow
Oct 21, 2021, 6:02:13 PM10/21/21
to
AJL <noe...@none.com> asked
You're literally _afraid_ of every power Android provides to you.
I think you misunderstand "paranoia" in that I am so unafraid of Google that
I will delete any Google core component that I can, and if I can't delete it
I drop it back to it's original level and if I can't go any further I
disable it, and if I can't disable it, I force stop it.
That's not being "afraid" of things - that's actually being brave with the
phone where you, on the other hand, seem afraid of _everything_ on the
phone.
You're even afraid of downloading apps off of Google Play for God's sake
> Aren't you the one who's paranoid of all things Google? Mirror time...
The problem, "AJL", is you're an Apple shill & I see right thru you.
You're literally _afraid_ of every power Android provides to you.
I think you misunderstand "paranoia" in that I am so unafraid of Google that
I will delete any Google core component that I can, and if I can't delete it
I drop it back to it's original level and if I can't go any further I
disable it, and if I can't disable it, I force stop it.
That's not being "afraid" of things - that's actually being brave with the
phone where you, on the other hand, seem afraid of _everything_ on the
phone.
You're even afraid of downloading apps off of Google Play for God's sake
The Real Bev
Oct 21, 2021, 6:11:07 PM10/21/21
to
On 10/21/2021 12:56 PM, Robin Goodfellow wrote:
> The Real Bev <bashl...@gmail.com> asked
>> I chose a different launcher (Nova) several phones ago, and it carried
>> over from the Motorola 5 to the Pixel2. I didn't notice a significant
>> change when I updated from 10 to 11. No idea what the stock GUI looks
>> like, but Nova offers far more customization than I'm willing to bother
>> with. Try it, you might like it.
>
> I've been using the free nova launcher for years, on my old $350 Nexus 5
> from T-Mobile, to my old $200 Moto-G from Google, to my old $130 LG Stylo 3
> Plus from Costco, to my old $100 Moto G7 from Google Fi, to my current free
> Samsung Galaxy A325G from T-Mobile (notice Android gets better, faster, and
> cheaper over time, like all consumer electronics other than iPhones).
>
> That spans at least half a dozen Android versions, where I would agree with
> The Real Bev that the look and feel (at least from the homescreen) doesn't
> change all that much, if at all.
I don't even see it. Like the default GUIs for Firefox and Thunderbird
> The Real Bev <bashl...@gmail.com> asked
>> I chose a different launcher (Nova) several phones ago, and it carried
>> over from the Motorola 5 to the Pixel2. I didn't notice a significant
>> change when I updated from 10 to 11. No idea what the stock GUI looks
>> like, but Nova offers far more customization than I'm willing to bother
>> with. Try it, you might like it.
>
> I've been using the free nova launcher for years, on my old $350 Nexus 5
> from T-Mobile, to my old $200 Moto-G from Google, to my old $130 LG Stylo 3
> Plus from Costco, to my old $100 Moto G7 from Google Fi, to my current free
> Samsung Galaxy A325G from T-Mobile (notice Android gets better, faster, and
> cheaper over time, like all consumer electronics other than iPhones).
>
> That spans at least half a dozen Android versions, where I would agree with
> The Real Bev that the look and feel (at least from the homescreen) doesn't
> change all that much, if at all.
on my computer. For a while I left FF Nightly alone, but then I decided
I wanted to know how it worked with my actual profile. So far, so good.
> You can even _export_ your homescreen & import it back so that the app icons
> are exactly where you had them on the new phone as they were on the old.
>
> Since you already save all your app APKs in the same hierarchy as the
> homescreen folders, you can repopulate the homescreen folders one by one as
> each APK you re-install takes the place of the placeholder nova gave it.
decided I didn't need them. I'd like to download the apks for all my
apps, but not enough to actually try to do it.
> You don't even need to be on the Internet since this all "just works."
> (BTW, Steve should list this as yet another simple basic functionality that
> just works on Android and yet which is completely impossible on iOS.)
>
>> Most of my stuff is too old for updates. ALL, probably.
>
> I think that's a false presumption that they're too old for updates.
> Last we checked, Google updated the core apps for over 8 years.
> Are your Android phones really more than 8 years old?
apps every once in a while for no good reason that I can think of. Not
sure which version of Chrome I'm running on my (high-end bought in 2009)
computer, but I'm not updating TB38 or FF82. Slackware 14.2 isn't going
to get updated either -- too much weird stuff happens with a major
update. I suspect some weirdness in the components bought at Fry's (we
put together 3 identical machines -- mine is the only weird one), but
that's just a guess.
>> I like to live dangerously. So far, so good.
>
> I realize you're stating this in jest, as it's not "dangerous" to not update
> the apps to the latest version, and, in fact, I myself almost never update
> an app that I don't know has something I want in the new version (which is
> rare).
chewed out by Jamie Z when I asked him how to run xscreensaver. Again,
so far, so good.
> But can you name even a single app that you installed that you can't update?
> Can you even name a single default app that was there that you can't update?
It's a nuisance to update ES File Explorer because google regards it as
perhaps more criminal than the Wuhan BatCave, but I don't see a need to
do it very often and I can deal with it.
--
Cheers, Bev
"You won't like me when I'm angry because I always back up my rage
with facts and documented sources." - The Credible Hulk
Andy Burns
Oct 22, 2021, 4:32:39 AM10/22/21
to
Robin Goodfellow wrote:
> Q: Are you sure SOC firmware isn't updated (via Project Treble)?
I'm not sure at all, because I mostly have had Nexus/Pixel devices, and in
> Q: Are you sure SOC firmware isn't updated (via Project Treble)?
recent years they have had monthly "delta" fixes, so why would Google itself
need to use Treble+APEX, they have more control already, Treble is just for 3rd
party manufacturers?
I thought Treble worked so that the "base layer" of manufacturer specific code
never changed during a device's lifetime, and then google could replace the
entire "middle layer" with each v10, v11, v12 release of android independent of
the hardware?
> For example, it's my understanding recent versions of Qualcomm GPU firmware
> are already being updated over Google Play Services in Android 12 (see sig).
> I get your point if you're saying it's not _all_ firmware (but won't it be
> all "important" firmware, pretty soon, particularly with Google's new SOCs?)
>
> The kernel is more problematic where I see that there are certainly ways to
> get Android 12 kernels (if I understand the references that I only skimmed).
>
> It appears Android 12's kernel may already be open source; is that correct?
drivers can be loaded in ways that don't require them to even nod towards open
source.
> There's so much I don't know about how Google updates Android that we should
> all pitch in together so that everyone can help flesh out those answers.
I'm interested, but I have too many things already pulling on my time. The
> all pitch in together so that everyone can help flesh out those answers.
Pixel3 has reached end of major version releases and end of monthly fixes, I
wont rush to get a $$$Pixel6, I don't want to buy a year out of date Pixel5 and
the Pixel5a isn't on-sale over here.
I daresay LineageOS will produce a v13 for Pixel3 in about a year's time, but
they no longer release for Pixel2, so they have cut-offs like everyone else,
also they have no need to use Treble/APEX mechanisms since the google devices
aren't locked, they can build and flash whatever ROM they want.
I think the only way Treble could help in a year's time would be to install a
v13 "GSI" release, the ifs and buts don't sound good
<https://developer.android.com/topic/generic-system-image/releases>
Andy Burns
Oct 22, 2021, 3:54:09 PM10/22/21
to
Andy Burns wrote:
> my battery life has been really crap today
It's done 13 hours on battery today, 25% used with 1 day + 3 hours remaining, so
> my battery life has been really crap today
that's pretty normal ... not bad for a 3 year old phone ... I musy have just
fiddled about with it a lot yesterday.
Andy Burns
Oct 23, 2021, 3:11:33 AM10/23/21
to
John McGaw wrote:
> 12 dropped today if you have a compatible device.
My SMS/Calls backup app lost access to the temporary local folder, so failed
overnight, had to re-grant files and folders permissions ... odd.
> 12 dropped today if you have a compatible device.
My SMS/Calls backup app lost access to the temporary local folder, so failed
overnight, had to re-grant files and folders permissions ... odd.
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