I love phones with user swappable batteries

[Andy Burnelli]

*I love phones with user swappable batteries!*

Today the grandkids came over and one of them forgot to charge her phone.

I had given the twins the same inexpensive stocking stuffers back in 2017.
(Phones are so cheap you can put them in the stockings by the fireplace.)

I always have extra unused phones lying around sitting in a drawer as every
year or so comes an opportunity for handfuls of better & better free phones.
<https://i.postimg.cc/YC1B906F/tmopromo01.jpg>

Flip, flop, viola!
<https://i.postimg.cc/tJGc87VT/battery01.jpg>

The battery, just sitting in a phone in the drawer at 71% was usable.
The hardest part was removing the tightly fitting rubber cases!

I even have an extra one, from years ago, unopened, still in the box.
(It's great that the carrier gives free phones to almost everyone!)

*I love phones with user swappable batteries!*
--
I, for one, also love the portability of USB-C cables at a few dollars for
various lengths of three to six to ten feet in bulk bags of a dozen each.

[micky]

In comp.mobile.android, on Sat, 15 Jan 2022 20:20:00 -0000 (UTC), Andy

Burnelli <sp...@nospam.com> wrote:

> *I love phones with user swappable batteries!*

I might not have replied, but since your answer to me in another thread
is partly asbout battery size, I'll comment a little.

I love phones with swappable batteries too. Even though I don't have
granddkids. Phones with glued in batteries are a variant as evil as
Omicron.

But the last three phones, including the one that was stolen, that's
what I ended up with. At least I was able to find directions on
youtube how to change their battery anyhow, most of which one could
figure out without instructions, but part of which was valuable, maybe
how to pry the back off when they don't want you to, that you can
spearate the battery from its backing, how to glue iirc the new battery
in place and the cover back on. (And replacemnet batteries were
available for all three phones.)

But you can't do all this while your grandkid is waiting.

Do you know in advance if the battery is removeable, by brand or
advertising or have you just been lucky?

I gather your batteries were tthe same size.

When I bought the last phoen, I noticed that its battery rating was
high, and I think I noticed it weighed more than one I already had, but
I was still suprised that it was noticeably thicker and heavier. I
presume that is almost entirely because of the battery. (This is the
Xiaomi phone I bought for the USA. The Samsung phone for Greece is the
thinner one,although even the heavier one is not so heavy carrying it
all day will bother me.)

So I don't think the big battery will fit in the previous phone, but the
previous battery might fit in the later phone, with a little foam rubber
or soemthing to hold it in place.

[John McGaw]

snip...

Off the top of my head (where the hair used to live) I can't think of a
single modern or semi-modern phone with swappable batteries. Certainly not
a mainstream device. The last phone with such a battery I owned was a Nexus
S which wasn't a bad little phone for the day although given today's demand
for water-resistancy it would never make it.


--
Bodger's Dictum: Artifical intelligence
can never overcome natural stupidity.

[Theo]

John McGaw <Nob...@nowh.ere> wrote:
> Off the top of my head (where the hair used to live) I can't think of a
> single modern or semi-modern phone with swappable batteries. Certainly not
> a mainstream device. The last phone with such a battery I owned was a Nexus
> S which wasn't a bad little phone for the day although given today's demand
> for water-resistancy it would never make it.

https://www.ifixit.com/Guide/Fairphone+3+Battery+Replacement/125674

The Fairphone 4 has only been out a few months so likely nobody needs to
swap their battery yet, but should be similar.

Theo

[nospam]

In article <BBe*mr...@news.chiark.greenend.org.uk>, Theo

the fairphone is not competitive with other android phones and not
available in the usa either.

[Andy Burnelli]

On Sun, 16 Jan 2022 12:31:19 -0500, nospam wrote:

>> The Fairphone 4 has only been out a few months so likely nobody needs to
>> swap their battery yet, but should be similar.
>
> the fairphone is not competitive with other android phones and not
> available in the usa either.

The point is valid that it's nice to know _which_ smart phones have
user-swappable batteries, as it's just so nice of a convenience feature.

Unfortunately, the always-customer-unfriendly purely-for-profit moves by
Apple are copied by many Android smartphone makers, as nobody knows how to
screw the customer better than does Apple - so they often follow suit.

However, even in 2022, there are customer-friendly phones with
user-swappable batteries, which certainly are decent phones overall.

*Best Android phone with removable battery 2022*
<https://www.androidcentral.com/best-android-phone-removable-battery>
$500 Galaxy XCover Pro
$100 to $150 Moto E6
$70 Blu View Mega
$110 Moto E6 Play
$180 LG G5
$100 Nokia 1.3
$30 Blu View 2

"Android phones with removable batteries are far less commonplace than they
once used to be, but they still very much exist. Overall, the one we
recommend most people pick up is the *Samsung Galaxy XCover Pro*.

Samsung makes some of the best cheap Android phones, and it has taken the
underlying hardware from the Galaxy A51, added a rugged shell,
and sells it as the XCover Pro."

[Alan]

On 2022-01-16 12:12 p.m., Andy Burnelli wrote:
> On Sun, 16 Jan 2022 12:31:19 -0500, nospam wrote:
>
>>> The Fairphone 4 has only been out a few months so likely nobody needs to
>>> swap their battery yet, but should be similar.
>>
>> the fairphone is not competitive with other android phones and not
>> available in the usa either.
>
> The point is valid that it's nice to know _which_ smart phones have
> user-swappable batteries, as it's just so nice of a convenience feature.
>
> Unfortunately, the always-customer-unfriendly purely-for-profit moves by
> Apple are copied by many Android smartphone makers, as nobody knows how to
> screw the customer better than does Apple - so they often follow suit.

You get that people by Apple products because they LIKE them, right?

The iPhone never had a user-swappable batter, but it was STILL hugely
popular.

Perhaps...

...just perhaps...

...your assumption that everyone who doesn't make the same choices as
you make is not automatically an idiot.

[Andy Burnelli]

On 16 Jan 2022 17:09:07 +0000 (GMT), Theo wrote:

> https://www.ifixit.com/Guide/Fairphone+3+Battery+Replacement/125674
>
> The Fairphone 4 has only been out a few months so likely nobody needs to
> swap their battery yet, but should be similar.

That's _beautiful_ that the Fairphone (which I had never heard of but I'm
not a smartphone aficionado) has the customer-friendly swappable battery!

Thanks for letting us know, as some people (idiotically so) say that phones
today don't have user swappable batteries - and yet - they certainly do.

I just looked for reviews of the best smartphones with user-swappable
batteries and this was one of the hits that poppled up showing they still
exist.
*The best smartphones with replaceable batteries you can buy in 2019*
<https://www.nextpit.com/best-smartphones-with-replaceable-batteries>
Nokia 1
LG V20
Samsung Galaxy Note 4
LG G5
Samsung Galaxy S5
Moto G5

Another 2019 hit found 9 phones with customer-friendly removable batteries.
*9 Best Phones with Removable Battery*
<https://www.technipages.com/review/9-best-phones-with-removable-battery>
LG V20 64GB H918 (Best Overall)
Blackberry Z10
Motorola Moto G5
Motorola E5 Play
Galaxy Xcover 4
LG K8
Nokia 1 (Best Value)
Samsung Galaxy J7 (Premium Pick)
Samsung Galaxy S5

That review specifically mentioned you'll never find this customer friendly
feature in _any_ Apple smartphone, but it did suggest who is more customer
friendly than the others in the Android arena, as pasted verbatim below:
"The main difference that will come up when looking at phones with
renewable batteries is the type of phone itself.
*You will never find an Apple product*, but LG, Samsung and Motorola
have all had phones in the marketplace that are not only quality phones
but some are new to the market offering a longer tech life to the buyer."
--
In a way, I wish Apple had not been so successful screwing the customer
because the Android companies love to follow Apple's profitable ploys.

[Andy Burnelli]

On Sun, 16 Jan 2022 09:36:10 -0500, John McGaw wrote:

> Off the top of my head (where the hair used to live) I can't think of a
> single modern or semi-modern phone with swappable batteries. Certainly not
> a mainstream device. The last phone with such a battery I owned was a Nexus
> S which wasn't a bad little phone for the day although given today's demand
> for water-resistancy it would never make it.

Like you, I don't keep up with which phones still have the customer friendly
feature of a swappable battery, but I was sure there were still some there.

This 2021 article says they still exist.
*The best phones with a removable battery and alternative solutions*
<https://www.androidauthority.com/best-android-phones-removable-battery-697520/>
The best phones with a removable battery:
Samsung Galaxy XCover Pro
Motorola Moto E6
Samsung Galaxy J2 Core
Nokia 1.3
Samsung Galaxy XCover 5

See also this opinion piece:
<https://mashable.com/article/why-phones-cant-have-removable-batteries-anymore>
"I understand the reasons for wanting a phone with a removable battery.
I really do.

Removable batteries are more environmentally friendly because it'll lead
to less e-waste since you won't feel compelled to upgrade to a new phone
if your current one works just fine.

They'd make situations like the one Apple's caught in a lot easier for
users because a fresh battery could fix handle new software updates that
an older battery couldn't. And you could probably get one for a lot less
from a third-party.

Removable batteries also make it easier to carry a spare for when you
really need it. Like when you're out late or don't have time to wait
for a charge."

Which was _exactly_ the situation the twins were in when they forgot to
charge their phone on their visit to the grandparents this weekend!
Flip, flop, voila!
<https://i.postimg.cc/tJGc87VT/battery01.jpg>

[Andy Burnelli]

On Sat, 15 Jan 2022 16:19:15 -0500, micky wrote:

> Do you know in advance if the battery is removeable, by brand or
> advertising or have you just been lucky?

I think you have to just know which phone models come with user removable
batteries, of which I admit there are fewer and fewer every year (as they
each copied Apple's unfriendly but highly profitable marketing ploys).
*Sealed vs user-replaceable batteries: is your phone battery doomed?*
<http://www.allaboutsymbian.com/features/item/14377_Sealed_vs_user-replaceable_bat.php>


Despite Apple's unfriendly moves, the situation is what it is today.
*The trend towards sealing batteries in your smartphone*
<https://www.giffgaff.com/blog/removable-vs-non-removable-batteries/>

Still, there are lists of smartphones with user replaceable batteries.
<https://www.reddit.com/r/Android/comments/rj96aq/current_smartphones_with_user_removable_battery/>

> I gather your batteries were tthe same size.

My Samsung Galaxy S3 came with a $20 2100mAh battery by default
<https://batterystoreusa.com/checkoutnow.php>

But I bought, at the time, a 7 Amp Hour battery to replace it.
<https://thenextgalaxy.com/zerolemon-samsung-galaxy-s-iii-7000mah-extended-battery-review/>

The replacement battery, of course, was huge, but it came with its own
backing plate for the Samsung Galaxy S3, which was a quick snap in.
Voila!

I even bought a pack of external chargers for that phone which kept it alive
for over five or six years as I recall, because I broke the charging port.
<https://www.amazon.com/external-battery-charger-galaxy-s3/s?k=external+battery+charger+for+galaxy+s3>

In my humble opinion, any company merely "advertising" they care about
ewaste, who then doesn't design a phone with a user swappable battery, is
merely bullshitting the gullible fools who are dumb enough to believe it.

[Bob F]

The last time I was looking to upgrade, the Samsung S5 and LG V20 seemed
to be the most up-to-date phones with easily replaceable batteries. Used
of course. I bought the S5, which worked fine for me until someone gave
me an S9. It seems to be doing fine battery wise, but will be a pain to
replace the battery when it needs it.

It is pretty easy to find whether any particular phone has a
"user-replaceable" battery by simple searches. They will likely be very
hard to find on more modern phones.

[micky]

In comp.mobile.android, on Thu, 20 Jan 2022 13:03:46 -0800, Bob F

<bobn...@gmail.com> wrote:

>
>It is pretty easy to find whether any particular phone has a
>"user-replaceable" battery by simple searches. They will likely be very
>hard to find on more modern phones.

Why is that. The hardware to make the battery removable is very small
and lightweight . Why do they glue the battery in?

[Nil]

On 21 Jan 2022, micky <NONONO...@fmguy.com> wrote in
comp.mobile.android:

Planned obsolescence, I suspect. They want you to buy a new device, not
fix an old one.

Also, as phones and batteries get slimmer, I imagine they're more prone
to breakage when opened up by people who don't know what they're doing,
and the makers don't want to deal with that.

[sms]

It's extra points of failure, it's an ingress point for liquids, it adds
thickness to the phone, it adds weight, it adds cost, few people ever
carry around spare batteries, and it slightly reduces sales of new
phones. With Android, finding a recently manufactured replacement
battery for an old phone is often impossible and with Li-Ion batteries
you don't want NOS (new, old stock).

One positive of an iPhone is that there are so many out there with the
same battery that you can still get newly manufactured batteries going
back at least to the iPhone 6 (#4i in the document
<https://tinyurl.com/iOS-Android-Features>.

[AJL]

On 1/21/2022 12:40 AM, Nil wrote:
> micky <NONONO...@fmguy.com> wrote in

>> Why is that. The hardware to make the battery removable is very
>> small and lightweight . Why do they glue the battery in?

> Planned obsolescence, I suspect. They want you to buy a new device,
> not fix an old one.

I have have always changed phones before the battery needs replacing. My
current phone is in its third year with no battery deterioration that I
can notice though I'm sure there is some. I think most folks are like
me. I did replace the battery in the wife's phone when it swelled up and
cracked the case but that is a rare occurrence...

[sms]

In most cases, by the time the battery deteriorates to the point where
it needs to be replaced the phone is obsolete in at least one of several
ways.

Think of all the phones without VoLTE that are about to be kicked off of
carriers when they decommission 3G and CDMA service. Well there aren't
that many of them, but there are still enough to be upsetting people
that bought new phones only a couple of years ago. And ironically, a lot
of the phones being kicked off are perfectly capable of VoLTE, they just
aren't on AT&T's "whitelist."

iPhones are a bit of an exception when it comes to battery replacement
because of the design issue prior to the iPhone 8, but Apple had a $29
battery replacement program to address that. The only effect of a
deteriorating battery should be gradually reduced operating time, but in
the case of the older iPhones this was not the case, but it was not the
fault of the battery (see <https://tinyurl.com/iPhonePMIC>).

The other advantage of replaceable batteries is the ability to carry
along spare batteries on long trips where you're away from a power
source. But that issue can be addressed with external battery packs even
though those are bulkier than a spare, flat, phone battery.

Nowadays, most airplanes on long-haul flights include some kind of power
source, either USB or AC, though Southwest, which has flights up to
2,462 miles has no power outlets, and Spirit, which has flights up to
2,627 miles also has no power outlets. If you wanted to stream
multimedia content, over Wi-Fi, on your phone for 5-6 hours then you
would likely need an external battery pack (Southwest currently has
Wi-Fi for $8 per day, Spirit is going to have Wi-Fi soon).

[nospam]

In article <ssem86$7cu$1...@dont-email.me>, sms

<scharf...@geemail.com> wrote:

> In most cases, by the time the battery deteriorates to the point where
> it needs to be replaced the phone is obsolete in at least one of several
> ways.

true. the battery almost always outlast the phone unless the battery is
defective, in which case it's replaced under warranty.

it's also not difficult to replace an internal battery, it just
requires a screwdriver to open the case instead of a fingernail to pop
off the back. a few phones are more involved but they're the exception.

> Think of all the phones without VoLTE that are about to be kicked off of
> carriers when they decommission 3G and CDMA service. Well there aren't
> that many of them, but there are still enough to be upsetting people
> that bought new phones only a couple of years ago.

they won't be kicked off, although phones without volte are already
fairly old and in need of replacement for other reasons.

without volte, people might not be able to make voice calls, but
otherwise, the phones will continue to work as before for all other
tasks. voice calls can also be done using a voip or messaging app,
although that's less convenient.

> And ironically, a lot
> of the phones being kicked off are perfectly capable of VoLTE, they just
> aren't on AT&T's "whitelist."

at&t does not have a whitelist. they have a *compatibility* list.
phones not on that list can be used but will probably have issues.

> iPhones are a bit of an exception when it comes to battery replacement
> because of the design issue prior to the iPhone 8, but Apple had a $29
> battery replacement program to address that. The only effect of a
> deteriorating battery should be gradually reduced operating time, but in
> the case of the older iPhones this was not the case, but it was not the
> fault of the battery (see <https://tinyurl.com/iPhonePMIC>).

yes it was due to the battery, which has been explained to you by
numerous people many times.

all batteries age, which reduces its ability to source the same current
it could when new (higher internal resistance). peak demands that once
were not a problem might now be a problem.

it's not possible for any chip to extract more current than the battery
can itself provide. what apple did was better manage peak demands from
an aging battery

several android phones also had sudden shutdown issues, just like
iphones.

this is not unique to phones and affects anything with a battery,
including motor vehicles, cameras and much more. for example, a car
battery that can run the radio or headlights might be too weak to start
the engine, which is a peak demand.

> The other advantage of replaceable batteries is the ability to carry
> along spare batteries on long trips where you're away from a power
> source. But that issue can be addressed with external battery packs even
> though those are bulkier than a spare, flat, phone battery.

most phones last 1-2 days in typical use, making that needed only in
extreme cases.

[Andy Burnelli]

On Fri, 21 Jan 2022 07:14:03 -0700, AJL wrote:

> I have have always changed phones before the battery needs replacing. My
> current phone is in its third year with no battery deterioration that I
> can notice though I'm sure there is some. I think most folks are like
> me. I did replace the battery in the wife's phone when it swelled up and
> cracked the case but that is a rare occurrence...

Are you aware that some phones are severely throttled after about a year?

Not all phones, mind you.
Just the ones with an extremely poorly designed power delivery system.

But _those_ phones were essentially worthless after only about a year.
And _those_ batteries were decidedly _not_ "user swappable" batteries!

[Andy Burnelli]

On Fri, 21 Jan 2022 13:15:55 -0500, nospam wrote:

> the battery almost always outlast the phone

I kept my Samsung Galaxy S3 going for something like five years, simply by
replacing the battery (even after the USB port died over time).

I was able to buy 7 amp hour batteries (yes, you heard that right) which
easily fit in the phone (the back came with the batteries).

I could keep a 7 amp hour battery on charge at all times in the wall wort.
And another in the phone for daily use.

For hiking, I'd take _two_ fully charged batteries with me, especially for
those days where GPS ate up the battery like there was no tomorrow coming.

*That*

That.

That. Is what swappable batteries provide for a user.
--
You can keep fully charged batteries on the wall charger to swap out.

[Andy Burnelli]

On Sat, 22 Jan 2022 19:13:05 -0000 (UTC), Andy Burnelli wrote:

> I could keep a 7 amp hour battery on charge at all times in the wall wort.

typo...

I could keep a 7 amp hour battery on charge at all times in the wall wart.