Something keeps deleting my Google offline maps (can I put a stop to this?)

[Calia]

I keep downloading the Google offline maps using the "OK Maps"
feature, and that works for a while.

But then, when I really need the offline maps, they're gone!
Totally gone.

So, I start over, and download the offline maps, which is easy
enough. But then, a while later, they're gone too!

Is there a way to put a stop to this?

[VanguardLH]

Calia wrote (seen in the cross-posted alt.comp.freeware newsgroup):

I've used Google Maps for several years (although I've been bouncing
over to Bing Maps, too). I couldn't find some "offline" feature you're
asking about. You didn't give any context to your inquiry. I'm using a
desktop PC and visit maps.google.com using a web browser.

Then I did a web search on "google maps offline" and found articles
talking about "Google Offline Maps for Android", like Google's article
at https://support.google.com/gmm/answer/2650218?hl=en. So you're
asking about some webapp that you have on an Android. That info would
help immensely to focus on respondents that also have an Android.

Since you have to select an area of a map and then download it (using
the Google Offline Maps" webapp), what gets stored on your Android?
Where's the file? Maybe the webapp has a limit to the number or size of
an offline cache and you've exceeded it, so some scheme, like FIFO, gets
used to flush the webapp's cache.

https://support.google.com/gmm/answer/2650380

That mentions how you can see a list of the cached (offline) maps.
Since it mentions a "Settings -> Offline and cache" menu then it looks
to be managing a cache of offline maps so it probably has some limit as
to how many it will cache. That limit might be dictated by how much
free space you have on your Android device which you didn't mention.

https://support.google.com/gmm/answer/2650377?hl=en

Notice what it says under "Maximum download size". Yep, there's a limit
on how many maps you can have offline. Same limit is mentioned at
http://www.androidcentral.com/google-maps-updated-offline-caching.

If you're staying within the download limit for their webapp's cache
then maybe you are somehow causing a flush of that cache. While
http://osxdaily.com/2013/07/17/use-google-maps-offline-download-maps-cache/
mentions how to use the webapp to clear (flush) its own cache, maybe
something else you use also clears that cache.

http://lifehacker.com/how-to-cache-offline-maps-in-the-new-google-maps-for-an-729295083
mentions using "OK Maps" but that looks to be for the old version of the
webapp. They say to use the Make Available Offline menu. Do you have
the latest version of the webapp?

[Calia]

On Sun, 04 May 2014 00:02:30 -0500, VanguardLH wrote:

> I've used Google Maps for several years

> I couldn't find some "offline" feature you're asking about.
> You didn't give any context to your inquiry. I'm using a
> desktop PC and visit maps.google.com using a web browser.

If you google for "Android Ok maps", you'll see what I'm talking about.
https://support.google.com/gmm/answer/3273567?hl=en
http://www.wired.com/2014/02/offline-google-maps
http://www.androidauthority.com/google-maps-offline-ok-maps-easter-egg-241580/

Likewise with googling for "iOS Ok maps" results:
http://gizmodo.com/how-to-save-offline-maps-in-the-new-google-maps-for-ios-819672562
http://gigaom.com/2013/07/18/wish-you-could-get-google-maps-for-ios-offline-now-you-can/
http://www.cnet.com/how-to/how-to-cache-offline-maps-in-latest-google-maps-for-ios/

It seems to take a 20-mile (or so) radius, in my area, but I don't
know if the size is road-density dependent.

The problem is that, in about a month, all the cached maps are
"updated" (i.e., deleted), presumably by Google, automatically.

So, the question is HOW to prevent them from being deleted?

[Calia]

On Sun, 04 May 2014 00:02:30 -0500, VanguardLH wrote:

> Since you have to select an area of a map and then download it (using
> the Google Offline Maps" webapp), what gets stored on your Android?
> Where's the file?

I'm not sure "what" exactly gets stored, but, you see the map,
offline, as if you were online.

The little blue GPS dot works just fine, and so does cellular
triangulation, even if you're far out of cellular signal (or
if you pull out your SIM card).

What does NOT get stored is search data (like the nearest
Starbucks or gas station) nor address data (like "#1 main street"),
but, the map part works just fine offline if you've already
saved the map.

[Calia]

On Sun, 04 May 2014 00:02:30 -0500, VanguardLH wrote:

> Where's the file?

I don't know.

On Android, maybe it's in this location?
/Phone/Android/data/com.google.android.apps.maps/cache

It's much harder to look at the file system in iOS, so,
I can't say anything about the iOS file system though.

Maybe someone here knows where Google stores offline maps?

[Calia]

On Sun, 04 May 2014 00:02:30 -0500, VanguardLH wrote:

> So you're
> asking about some webapp that you have on an Android. That info would
> help immensely to focus on respondents that also have an Android.

The "app" is nothing more or less than "Google Maps", which is a
standard app on most iOS iPads and certainly on all Android cellphones.

[Calia]

On Sun, 04 May 2014 00:02:30 -0500, VanguardLH wrote:

> Since it mentions a "Settings -> Offline and cache" menu then it looks
> to be managing a cache of offline maps so it probably has some limit as
> to how many it will cache. That limit might be dictated by how much
> free space you have on your Android device which you didn't mention.

It's more sinister than this.

I have plenty of space (12GB or so) and I don't have more than
an offline tile or two downloaded at the moment.

The problem has nothing to do with space, simply because I
download the offline maps of my local area about once a month,
and, about once a month, they're all deleted.

It's my understanding that Google is "updating" them (with
nothing), but I don't know that for a fact.

That's why I'm asking, and, mostly because the answer will
help all of us keep our offline maps in place!

[Calia]

On Sun, 04 May 2014 00:02:30 -0500, VanguardLH wrote:

> Do you have the latest version of the webapp?

Yes. I have the latest version of Google Maps.

On Android, Google Maps -> Settings -> About,
reports: Version 7.4.0 (#704001123)

On iOS, Google Maps -> Settings -> About,
reports: Version 2.7.4.17774

[Calia]

On Sun, 04 May 2014 00:02:30 -0500, VanguardLH wrote:

> While
> http://osxdaily.com/2013/07/17/use-google-maps-offline-download-maps-cache/
> mentions how to use the webapp to clear (flush) its own cache, maybe
> something else you use also clears that cache.

Googling, I found you can "clear" the cache yourself:
http://forums.androidcentral.com/verizon-galaxy-nexus/301561-google-maps-v7-0-2-delete-offline-maps-cache.html
click APPS tray > Settings > under DEVICE > Apps > Downloaded > Maps > Clear Data > Clear Cache

But I'm not doing that.
Something else is automatically clearing the cache.

I'll try disabling automatic updates to see if that solves the problem:
http://www.northstarnerd.org/econtent/2013/07/disable-google-maps-app-upgrade-to-keep-offline-maps.html

[Bob Martin]

in 7246 20140504 060230 VanguardLH <V...@nguard.LH> wrote:

>Then I did a web search on "google maps offline" and found articles
>talking about "Google Offline Maps for Android", like Google's article
>at https://support.google.com/gmm/answer/2650218?hl=en. So you're
>asking about some webapp that you have on an Android. That info would
>help immensely to focus on respondents that also have an Android.

Have you noticed the name of this newsgroup? :-)

[Andy Burns]

Bob Martin wrote:

> VanguardLH <V...@nguard.LH> wrote:
>
>> So you're asking about some webapp that you have on an Android.
>> That info would help immensely to focus on respondents that also
>> have an Android.
>
> Have you noticed the name of this newsgroup? :-)

To be fair, have you noticed the cross-post? :-)

[Chris Uppal]

Calia wrote:

> It's more sinister than this.
>
> I have plenty of space (12GB or so) and I don't have more than
> an offline tile or two downloaded at the moment.

Perhaps "sinister" is a little strong ;-)

The app, after all, has no way of knowing what you want to use your spare space
for. It can't just assume it's OK to fill it with tiles.

> That's why I'm asking, and, mostly because the answer will
> help all of us keep our offline maps in place!

I hope someone can suggest something, because I'd like exactly the same thing.

Many other map apps exist, some use Google's map data, and some give you more
control over cached tiles. What I don't know is whether any of them do both at
the same time ;-( (And as an aside, I wish there were a way for map apps that
use the same data source[s] to share their tile caches.)

I have or have installed several: GPS Essentials (which has quite a bit of
mapping capability), Google Maps (of course), OS MapFinder (not really like the
others at all, but great if you're a map fiend), MapsOnFree, and Maverick --
but got bored before I'd sorted out which worked best at what...

-- chris

[VanguardLH]

Calia wrote:

> VanguardLH wrote:
>
>> I couldn't find some "offline" feature you're asking about.
>

> If you google for "Android Ok maps", ...

Why would I have searched for anything with "android" included as the
criteria? Look at your original post. Android was never mentioned. I
only happened upon "android" as a consequence of searching on "google
maps offline".

Yep, I missed that you cross-posted to the android newsgroup. You also
cross-posted to the freeware newsgroup and THAT is where I saw your post
and the copy to which I replied. Different newsgroups, different
audiences.

> The problem is that, in about a month, all the cached maps are
> "updated" (i.e., deleted), presumably by Google, automatically.

So they are disappearing after a month from when downloaded and not
because you hit the limit on how many offline maps you can cache?

http://code.google.com/p/android/issues/detail?id=34064

Looks to be a long-time problem with Google's web app. I'm not
surprised Google hasn't addressed the defect in so long. It took them
far over 3 years to correct some screwups in their POP access to Gmail
(not all have yet been fixed) and it was in beta status for over 5
years. Then there's the list of services that Google brought out and
then killed (the list is way too long to bother showing here).

The changes in the web app might be hinting that Google may discontinue
supporting offline maps. Google giveth and Google taketh away. Google
supported Microsoft's Exchange Active Sync) but then killed it; see
http://winsupersite.com/mobile-devices/google-throws-down-gauntlet-kills-eas-support.
If you go to maps.google.com (the web site via web browser, not via some
app) then you'll see they changed it, too. It's not better (and, for
me, it is worse) but just different. Looks like yet another site
dumbing down to accomodate the limitations of mobile devices.

Sorry but history has shown that if you rely on Google to provide
long-lived and consistent services then you will get steamrolled
eventually.

[Alan Meyer]

I can't offer a solution but I can testify that this is a long standing
problem with Google Maps. I first noticed it on a trip in January 2013.
I stored a number of offline maps in my Google Nexus 7, left on my
trip, used the maps for a couple of days and then, with no warning or
announcement, they were gone. Repeated attempts to store new ones
always brought the same result. This happened on other trips as well.
Offline maps have always disappeared after some seemingly unpredictable
period of time. I'm sure someone at Google knows exactly why and when
it happens but, to my knowledge, they haven't shared the information.

The bug was reported to Google at least as early as July 2, 2012. See
this thread:

https://code.google.com/p/android/issues/detail?id=34064

There have been other bug reports as well.

To the best of my knowledge Google has never acknowledged the bug and
it's not clear that they've made any attempt to explain it, fix it, or
provide a workaround. The option for offline maps disappeared on my
Nexus 7 after a Maps update some time ago, though I've read that the
option is still there but is harder to get to.

You'll notice in the thread cited above that many people have posted
workarounds. However it's not clear to me which, if any of them,
actually work. None that I tried worked. I think someone tries
something, downloads a map, a week or so later the map is still there,
and he thinks "Hooray, it works", and posts his workaround. But then
the map disappears.

I am now using a different application named MapFactor Navigator. It is
not as slick as Google Maps and doesn't do as much, but it works, offers
turn by turn navigation from a stored map without a network connection
to Google (!), offers free storable maps that are state sized (at least
for the two U.S. states I've tried it on), and does not seem to report
your location to Google or anyone else. At any rate, I've used it
successfully without being online, so I'm assuming it's not tracking me.

I've got the free version from the Play Store. There's also a paid
version that, presumably, does more.

Hope that helps.

Alan

[M.L.]

>I am now using a different application named MapFactor Navigator. It is

>not as slick as Google Maps and doesn't do as much, but it works...

>I've got the free version from the Play Store. There's also a paid
>version that, presumably, does more.

Requires Android 2.3+

[Calia]

On Sun, 04 May 2014 11:57:31 +0100, Chris Uppal wrote:

> Many other map apps exist, some use Google's map data, and some give you more
> control over cached tiles. What I don't know is whether any of them do both at
> the same time ;-( (And as an aside, I wish there were a way for map apps that
> use the same data source[s] to share their tile caches.)

Hi Chris,

I don't know of any other map app that uses Google's map data,
but, certainly there are open-source maps that any map app is
welcome to use.

For example, open source OSM map data is used by OSMAnd~ freeware,
and by Navigator freeware, and by BeOnRoad freeware, and many others.

All of those easily download entire countries in a single shot,
and they are not deleted monthly like the puny (in comparison)
Google tiles are apparently.

So, we have everything we want already, and don't really ever
need Google maps - but it's still a nice app when it works.

[Calia]

On Sun, 04 May 2014 09:04:31 -0500, VanguardLH wrote:

> Yep, I missed that you cross-posted to the android newsgroup. You also
> cross-posted to the freeware newsgroup and THAT is where I saw your post
> and the copy to which I replied. Different newsgroups, different
> audiences.

Google maps is freeware (hence, a.c.f), which runs on Android and
iOS in offline mode (hence the c.m.a & c.m.i crossposts).

Together, the three of us should be able to solve this common
problem of Google maps updating themselves into oblivion.

The value would be that, in an emergency, when there is no
cellular signal to be had, the maps would still work.

[Calia]

On Sun, 04 May 2014 09:04:31 -0500, VanguardLH wrote:

> The changes in the web app might be hinting that Google
> may discontinue supporting offline maps

I don't doubt that Google hates offline *anything*.

Certainly Google *tried* to remove offline maps - but the
groundswell of complaints apparently changed their minds.

Google reinstates offline Maps for Android after public censure
http://www.zdnet.com/google-reinstates-offline-maps-for-android-after-public-censure-7000017977/

Google brings offline maps back to Android, kind of
http://www.engadget.com/2013/07/11/google-maps-offline/

Google Maps offline FAIL: Android users are revolting
http://blogs.computerworld.com/cloud-computing/22479/google-maps-offline-fail-android-users-are-revolting-itbwcw

[Calia]

On Sun, 04 May 2014 10:34:38 -0400, Alan Meyer wrote:

> I stored a number of offline maps in my Google Nexus 7, left on my
> trip, used the maps for a couple of days and then, with no warning or
> announcement, they were gone.

Pretty much that's what I'm seeing.

The Google offline maps are there for a while.
Then, suddenly, they're all gone.

It's not deadly, as I have Navigator, CoPilot, BeOnRoad, ZNavi,
and other offline map apps already, all of which work just fine
without cellular signal - but - I do like offline Google Maps too.

Basically, Google is unreliable in offline use (without cell
signal).

If only I could get google to stop deleting the maps.

[Calia]

On Sun, 04 May 2014 09:04:31 -0500, VanguardLH wrote:

> history has shown that if you rely on Google to provide
> long-lived and consistent services then you will get steamrolled
> eventually.

The only thing that Google does better than any other
app is that, for free, its maps are excellent.

The other free apps, most of which use OSM maps, have
pretty good maps, but, I'd say Google Maps are still
a slight bit better in many cases.

Of course, there are other map databases (e.g., NavTech
& Garmin) which are just as good as Google Maps, but,
they're generally not free (although some are available
in trialware).

[Moe DeLoughan]

They just announced today some new enhancements to Google maps,
including saving for offline use. Dunno if this means it'll work any
better than it has been.


Don’t worry if you’re not online. Before setting off on your next
vacation, hike, or roadtrip, search for an area and tap on its place
info sheet, then when available, you can select “Save map to use
offline,” and give your map a custom name, like “Toronto Vacation.” To
find your offline maps, sign-in, tap the profile icon next to the
search box in the top right corner, and scroll to see “Toronto
Vacation” and other saved maps.
http://google-latlong.blogspot.com/2014/05/get-on-road-go-off-grid-or-plan-perfect.html

View and manage saved maps offline

To access a map area that you’ve downloaded, tap Maps > My Places >
Offline. Your downloaded map area includes streets and maps data. Zoom
in to see a detailed view of your offline map. Certain features such
as satellite, terrain, indoor maps, and 3D buildings will not be
available offline.
To locate yourself on the map while you’re offline, use My Location
and compass mode. As long as you have GPS activated, you’ll see your
location as a blue dot on the map. Note that Wi-Fi and cell-based My
Location will not work. Features which require data connection--such
as directions and Navigation--aren’t available offline.
Managing your offline maps

To get a list of your downloaded map areas, go to My Places > Offline.
Each item in the list includes the following details:

Name of downloaded map area
Date you saved the area
Approximate size of the area
To rename or delete any of your downloaded map areas, click next to an
area. Unlike downloading, you can’t pause or resume a deletion. You
can also delete your entire offline list by going to Settings >
Offline and cache and selecting Clear all map tiles. This will removes
all tiles in the cache including those you’ve downloaded.
https://support.google.com/gmm/answer/2650380?hl=en

[Savageduck]

It seems that Google has come around to addressing your problem with
today’s Google Maps update.
< https://db.tt/6f0YbhME >

--
Regards,

Savageduck

[VanguardLH]

Savageduck wrote:

> Calia said:
>
>> Alan Meyer wrote:
>>
>>> I stored a number of offline maps in my Google Nexus 7, left on my
>>> trip, used the maps for a couple of days and then, with no warning
>>> or announcement, they were gone.
>>
>> Pretty much that's what I'm seeing. The Google offline maps are
>> there for a while. Then, suddenly, they're all gone.
>

> It seems that Google has come around to addressing your problem with

> todayοΏ½s Google Maps update.
> < https://db.tt/6f0YbhME >

Which redirects to:

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/1295663/Photo%20May%2006%2C%2011%2035%2016%20AM.png

It mentions iPad and iPhone that run iOS but not Android devices. There
is no mention that unwanted purging of offline maps has been addressed.

[VanguardLH]

Moe DeLoughan wrote:

> Calia wrote:
>
>> I keep downloading the Google offline maps using the "OK Maps"
>> feature, and that works for a while. But then, when I really need
>> the offline maps, they're gone! Totally gone.
>

> They just announced today some new enhancements to Google maps,
> including saving for offline use. Dunno if this means it'll work any
> better than it has been.

But does "Save offline maps to a custom list" actually mean anything has
been done with caching of the offline maps? That statement says they
let you create a custom list.

Did you test if offline maps stopped disappearing rather than just
getting a listing option?

[Savageduck]

On 2014-05-06 23:27:48 +0000, VanguardLH <V...@nguard.LH> said:

> Savageduck wrote:
>
>> Calia said:
>>
>>> Alan Meyer wrote:
>>>
>>>> I stored a number of offline maps in my Google Nexus 7, left on my
>>>> trip, used the maps for a couple of days and then, with no warning
>>>> or announcement, they were gone.
>>>
>>> Pretty much that's what I'm seeing. The Google offline maps are
>>> there for a while. Then, suddenly, they're all gone.
>>
>> It seems that Google has come around to addressing your problem with

>> today’s Google Maps update.

>> < https://db.tt/6f0YbhME >
>
> Which redirects to:
>
> https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/1295663/Photo%20May%2006%2C%2011%2035%2016%20AM.png

So?
I
>
took the trouble to shorten the URL. That is a feature to be found in Dropbox.

> It mentions iPad and iPhone that run iOS but not Android devices.

I have an iPad with google Maps installed, and I received the update
information on that iPad. I made a screen capture of the notification
and shared the details of the update to the NG I subscribe to;
comp.mobile.ipad.

That I didn’t get any information regarding Android versions is
something Android users should explore for themselves. Therein lies the
problem with info-mining cross posts.

> There is no mention that unwanted purging of offline maps has been addressed.

If you took the time to read, you should have seen that there was this
statement in the New Features list:
“Save offline maps to a custom list for when you’re traveling or have a
slow connection.”

I suspect that addresses the issue regarding vanishing offline. maps.
For iPad/iPhone at least. Note I don't own an Android device.

--
Regards,

Savageduck

[VanguardLH]

Savageduck wrote:

> VanguardLH said:

>
>> Savageduck wrote:
>>
>>> It seems that Google has come around to addressing your problem with

>>> todayļæ½s Google Maps update.

>>> < https://db.tt/6f0YbhME >
>>
>> Which redirects to:
>> https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/1295663/Photo%20May%2006%2C%2011%2035%2016%20AM.png
>
> So?

Many users don't like to blindly use redirection links. They don't know
to where you are sending them. Some redirection services, like TinyURL
(by adding the "preview" hostname), have a preview mode to show the
destination of a redirection link. It is both a security and politeness
issue to let users know to where a redirection link goes.

If you use a redirection service that doesn't provide a preview mode
then show the long URL following by the short [redirect] URL. Many
users want to know to where a redirection goes BEFORE they go there.

>> It mentions iPad and iPhone that run iOS but not Android devices.
>
> I have an iPad with google Maps installed, and I received the update
> information on that iPad.

I take it the offline maps disappearing from the local cache was also a
problem on the iPad and why you hope this update addressed that?

> That I didnļæ½t get any information regarding Android versions is

> something Android users should explore for themselves. Therein lies the
> problem with info-mining cross posts.

So we'll have to see if someone from the cross-posted android newsgroup
gets a similar update notice, AND if it addresses the caching issue for
offline maps or is just some feature to create a list.

>> There is no mention that unwanted purging of offline maps has been addressed.
>
> If you took the time to read, you should have seen that there was this
> statement in the New Features list:

> ļæ½Save offline maps to a custom list for when youļæ½re traveling or have a
> slow connection.ļæ½

Yes, I did read it, and what it says is "list". You can make a list of
files in folder but what good is that if the files go missing? They
already had the offline maps cache, so what that statement says is now
they added a list.

So, does a "list" feature actually fix the problem of maps disappearing
from the local cache? I suspect only time will tell (to see the
disappearances stop) but a long enough testing period, like a month,
will make this will a very stale thread.

[Alan Meyer]

On 5/6/2014 8:17 PM, Savageduck wrote:
> ... there was this statement in the New Features list:

> “Save offline maps to a custom list for when you’re traveling or have a
> slow connection.”
>
> I suspect that addresses the issue regarding vanishing offline. maps.
> For iPad/iPhone at least. Note I don't own an Android device.

I'll test the new version on my Nexus 7 when I get a chance.

Unfortunately, I believe that the old version with the bug also said
that you could use the offline maps when traveling - and you could - but
only for a while. Then they'd disappear.

Some people thought the disappearance would happen sometime when you
connected again to the net. Maybe a Maps service running on the phone
was checking the date of what you downloaded against what Google says is
the latest date and, if there were any updates (and I imagine updates
occur very frequently), it would delete your map, apparently without
updating it to the newer version.

I thought at one point that if you tried to use the map and were
connected to the net, it would download a new version automatically. In
theory, it's an optimization to do it that way. You might not ever use
the map again, or there might be 10 updates between the time you first
downloaded it and the time you used it again. By updating only once you
avoided 9 unnecessary updates.

I wonder if the Google programmers all have top grade devices with fixed
price, unlimited, high speed service. They may never even have
considered that some of us are using 3G phones with pay by the megabyte
service plans, or tablets like the Nexus 7 with no cellular radio at all.

But that's just an unsubstantiated theory about how and why this
happened. Without confirmation from Google, we don't know.

Alan

[Calia]

On Tue, 06 May 2014 17:17:41 -0700, Savageduck wrote:

> “Save offline maps to a custom list for when you’re traveling
> or have a slow connection.”

Thank you SD for finding this update on the iPad.

We can read into the Google changelog almost anything we
want, since it certainly doesn't say *anything* about *not*
deleting the map tiles every 30 days during an update.

However, maybe we'll get lucky and the changelog means
they won't delete the saved map tiles after 30 days?

Time will tell ...

I just now updated my iPad from Google Maps 2.7.4.17774
to Google Maps 3.0.0.21895.

Now when I save an offline map using "OK MAPS" in the
Google Maps search bar, it asks me to *name* the offline
map.

I have no idea where these now-named map tiles went, but,
let's see if these now-named saved offline map tiles remain
in 30 days.

[Calia]

On Tue, 06 May 2014 20:14:35 -0500, VanguardLH wrote:

> So, does a "list" feature actually fix the problem of maps disappearing
> from the local cache? I suspect only time will tell (to see the
> disappearances stop) but a long enough testing period, like a month,
> will make this will a very stale thread.

I agree with you that the changelog only says they save to a named
file for each map tile.

To test this out, I just now updated my iPad from Google Maps version
2.7.4.17774 to Google Maps version 3.0.0.21895.

I just saved a dozen map tiles, so, I will know, in 30 days, if
those named map tiles remain.

I don't know any other way to check them other than to just wait.
Is there a way to speed this up to less than 30 days?

[Calia]

On Tue, 06 May 2014 21:21:02 -0400, Alan Meyer wrote:

> Some people thought the disappearance would happen sometime when you
> connected again to the net.

It was "my" understanding (from whence I don't know), that the Google
Map automatic update would wipe out all cached map tiles.

In theory, this might make sense since a cached map could be old
data; but in practice, the whole point of caching maps was so that
you'd have them when you needed them.

I just downloaded a score of map tiles and will see what happens in
30 days using the newest iPad version of Google Maps (version
3.0.0.21895).

Interestingly, I accidentally named a few map tiles the same name,
and, Google Maps didn't complain. So, I don't know if it saved
multiple maps with the same name, or if it overwrote the originally
saved file.

Seems to me the GUI isn't all that worked out yet...

[Calia]

On Tue, 06 May 2014 12:26:15 -0700, Savageduck wrote:

> It seems that Google has come around to addressing your problem

Drat.

With the updated iPad version of Google Maps (version 3.0.0.21895),
when you log into your Google Mail account, there is now a new
section for the named "offline maps".

Unfortunately, when you press the "View all and manage" button,
each named map tile has an *expiration date*. Sigh.

I just downloaded a score of named map tiles, for example, and
all of these newly downloaded map tiles say "Expires in 29 days".

Hmmmmmm... what happens when that map tile "Expires"?

Is it deleted?
Probably.
However, maybe there is a workaround?

Each named map tile is stored in this list, where you get
the size (typically from 3 to 8 MB each), and the expiration
date (which clearly is 29 days), and then a menu selection
which has three options, namely:
a. Rename
b. Update
c. Delete

What I'm hoping is that we can manually press the "Update"
button, in 28 days, and that manual update will reset the
clock to an additional 29 days.

It's a pain, and it's wholly manual; but, it might work.

To test, I'll press the "update" button tomorrow on one
of the named map tiles, to see if this manual update will
push the clock forward.

[Calia]

> Hmmmmmm... what happens when that map tile "Expires"?

I just checked the Google Support page and it doesn't say
anything about the 29-day expiration date!

https://support.google.com/gmm/answer/3273567?p=ios_offline_maps&rd=1

HERE IS THAT PAGE, TEXT ONLY, VERBATIM:

View maps offline

See an area of the map even when you aren't connected to the Internet. For example, before you go on a camping trip, or travel to a foreign country where mobile data is expensive, sign in and save a map of the area. That way you can use the map offline during the trip.
Save a selected area of the map

Make sure your phone or tablet is connected to the Internet, then open the Google Maps app.
Search for the place you’d like to save, like "San Francisco."
Pull up the place info sheet that appears at the bottom of your device screen, and touch Save map to use offline to save the selected area of the map.
save map to use offline button image
You can adjust the area by moving and zooming in or out the map. When you finished, touch Save at the bottom of the map.
Type the name for the map, and then touch Save.
After a few moments, you'll see a message confirming that the map area has been saved.

Tip

Instead of searching for a place, you can simply move the map to the area you'd like to save for offline use.

Move the map to the area you’d like to save.
Touch inside the search box at the top of the map, and scroll down to the bottom of the page.
Touch Save map to use offline.

View your saved maps

Next time you aren't connected to the Internet, you can directly go to the saved area on the map to view it offline. Or, see a list of your saved maps on your Maps Activity page. Here is how to get to the list.

Open the Google Maps app.
Touch the person icon in the top right corner of the home screen to go to your Maps Activity page.
Scroll down to the "Offline maps" section of the Maps Activity page, and touch the area of the map that you'd like to see on the map. To see all of your saved maps, touch View all and manage.

Note: You can move and zoom in or out on your saved map, but you can’t search or get directions on it.
Update or delete your saved maps

You can update the area of your offline map or rename it using the Maps Activity page. You can also delete your saved maps on this page.

Open the Google Maps app.
Touch the person icon in the top right corner of the home screen to go to your Maps Activity page.
Scroll down to the "Offline maps" section of the Maps Activity page, and touch the area of the map that you'd like to see on the map. To see all of your saved maps, touch View all and manage.
Touch the offline maps menu icon image menu icon to the right of the saved map.
Touch Rename, Update, or Delete from the menu that appears.
Confirm changes.

If you clear your application data on your device, all of your saved map areas will be deleted as well. Signing out of the Google Maps app, deleting your Web History, or deleting your Maps history won’t delete your saved offline maps.

Learn more about how to clear application data.
Learn more about Web History.
Learn more about Maps history.

Troubleshooting

The on-screen map area is too large: If you see this error, zoom in to a smaller area on the map until you see the Save button appear at the bottom of the map.

Note: You can't save maps offline in some areas.
Tips and tricks

[Savageduck]

I haven't experimented with the latest GMaps off line maps yet. Thing
just sounds a tad screwy to me. At this stage all I can say is, good
luck.

--
Regards,

Savageduck

[Calia]

On Fri, 09 May 2014 22:08:17 -0700, Savageduck wrote:

> I haven't experimented with the latest GMaps off line maps yet. Thing
> just sounds a tad screwy to me. At this stage all I can say is, good
> luck.

I don't disagree with you that the offline map GUI is lousy.
I have written quite a few suggestions to Google by clicking
on the FEEDBACK button in the iPad Google Maps app.

For one thing, they don't allow you to "update all" (you have
to update each map tile manually individually).

For another, they don't remember the last name typed, so,
you have to type "new york map 1" and "new york map 2" etc.,
fully and completely each time.

In addition, if you forget a map name, and you end up reusing it,
there is absolutely no warning - but it appears to overwrite
the previous map name.

I could go on (and on), like how you can't ever tell if your
tiles are contiguous, and how you can't optimally zoom to an
area of just the right size, etc. ... but the point is that I
agree with you that the Google Maps offline feature is half
baked.

Even so, it's nice to now be able to more easily (albeit
manually) see what map tiles we have already downloaded.

And, if my hunch is correct that hitting the 'update' button
manually for each named downloaded tile will move the expiry
date forward, then, well, then we have a workaround to our
problem as stated in the OP.

That's progress... :)

[M.L.]

Seriously, GMaps sounds like crippleware compared to other freeware
offline GPS apps.

[Calia]

On Sat, 10 May 2014 10:39:07 -0500, M.L. wrote:

> Seriously, GMaps sounds like crippleware compared to other
> freeware offline GPS apps.

Can't disagree with you on the fact that Google offline maps
are far *less functional* than, say, the Android version of the
freeware Mapfactor Navigator offline maps, or more to the point,
the iOS/Android version of Alk CoPilot crippleware.

For example, Alk CoPilot crippleware has excellent maps (as
good as Google Maps) and an excellent search feature (which
offline Google Maps doesn't have at all). Plus, it can route,
which offline Google Maps can't do.

Similar to CoPilot, MapFactor Navigator freeware downloads
and routes on free maps of entire states or countries, which
Google Offline Maps does not do. MapFactor Navigator freeware
has pretty good accuracy (all OSM based) but a lousy search
capability.

Still, Google Offline Maps has *no* search or route capability,
so, I can't disagree with you that Google Offline Maps has
far less functionality than existing freeware and crippleware
map apps out there for both Android & iOS (unfortunately, the
iOS freeware/crippleware offerings are far less than on Android,
which is typical for Apple, since choices are limited on
available apps for both the iPad and the iPhone as compared
to Android phones & tablets).

However ... having said all that ...

The *one thing* that Google maps does as well as the Alk
CoPilot crippleware and a tiny bit better than the Navigator
freeware, is that offline Google Maps are nicely accurate.

If it wasn't for that accuracy, then I wouldn't even bother
with Google Maps (offline or online).

[M.L.]

>> Seriously, GMaps sounds like crippleware compared to other
>> freeware offline GPS apps.
>
>Can't disagree with you on the fact that Google offline maps
>are far *less functional* than, say, the Android version of the
>freeware Mapfactor Navigator offline maps, or more to the point,
>the iOS/Android version of Alk CoPilot crippleware.
>
>For example, Alk CoPilot crippleware has excellent maps (as
>good as Google Maps) and an excellent search feature (which
>offline Google Maps doesn't have at all). Plus, it can route,
>which offline Google Maps can't do.
>
>Similar to CoPilot, MapFactor Navigator freeware downloads
>and routes on free maps of entire states or countries, which
>Google Offline Maps does not do. MapFactor Navigator freeware
>has pretty good accuracy (all OSM based) but a lousy search
>capability.

All of the above is why I don't consider CoPilot to be crippleware at
all. Someone here initially called it crippleware because it did not
do offer turn navigation by street name, which is an unreasonable
requirement for freeware and misleading for those looking for a
competent GPS app.

I reserve the crippleware definition for apps that are missing major
functionality that make the app especially difficult to use, or
prevents it from functioning similarly to other apps of its genre.

>Still, Google Offline Maps has *no* search or route capability,
>so, I can't disagree with you that Google Offline Maps has
>far less functionality than existing freeware and crippleware
>map apps out there for both Android & iOS (unfortunately, the
>iOS freeware/crippleware offerings are far less than on Android,
>which is typical for Apple, since choices are limited on
>available apps for both the iPad and the iPhone as compared
>to Android phones & tablets).

GMaps also offers limited map downloads, which makes it more
inconvenient to use for unexpected offline out-of-range trips.

[Calia]

On Sat, 10 May 2014 14:11:46 -0500, M.L. wrote:

> All of the above is why I don't consider CoPilot to be crippleware at
> all. Someone here initially called it crippleware because it did not
> do offer turn navigation by street name, which is an unreasonable
> requirement for freeware and misleading for those looking for a
> competent GPS app.

I don't disagree with you, and, Alk CoPilot crippleware is actually
probably *better* than what you thought when you said that. :)

As you may know, on both iOS and on Android, Alk Copilot payware
speaks turn-by-turn directions (e.g., go right, go left, whatever).

But, the important non-intuitive distinction is that, on iOS, Alk
CoPilot payware *does* speak road names (e.g., "turn left onto
foobar road")! It's only on Android that Alk CoPilot does *not*
peak roadnames!

This is one clear case where Android is less functional than iOS.
Go figure.

Anyway, I still think CoPilot is rightly called crippleware simply
because whatever speaking it has (on both Android & iOS) goes away
after 14 days if you don't pay the $10 or $15 for it.

Having said that, I fully agree with you that Alk CoPilot maps
are as ACCURATE as Google (and better than OSM-based maps).

And, Alk CoPilot search is the best I know of for offline maps.

Even better, Alk CoPilot has routing that is better than most
maps, because it provides easily chosen alternative routes all
the time.

The only thing you lose if you don't pay for the product is
the speaking.

So, in summary, Alk CoPilot crippleware is actually better in
some important ways than any of the freeware that is out there
that I know of for offline road-navigation applications on both
Android and iOS.

Note: Alk CoPilot maps crippleware is also limited to a single
download, which is generally a few contiguous US states.

[Calia]

On Tue, 06 May 2014 18:31:57 -0500, VanguardLH wrote:

>> They just announced today some new enhancements to Google maps,
>> including saving for offline use. Dunno if this means it'll work any
>> better than it has been.
>
> But does "Save offline maps to a custom list" actually mean anything has
> been done with caching of the offline maps? That statement says they
> let you create a custom list.
>
> Did you test if offline maps stopped disappearing rather than just
> getting a listing option?

I just tested this offline map saving feature on the latest Google Maps
(version 3.0.0.21895) on iOS, & it seems to work OK (not perfect, but OK).

Here is what I just tested on an iOS iPad:
1. I created a Google identity (you need that to save maps to a list).
2. I saved a bunch of map tiles to my Google Identity "Offline Maps" list.
3. Pressing "View all and manage", all tiles reported "Expires in 29 days".
4. Two days later, all those saved map tiles reported "Expires in 27 days".
5. I pressed "Update" for a few of the saved map tiles.
6. Those updated ones now say "Expires in 29 days".
7. The rest still say "Expires in 27 days".

So, it appears that you can save your Google Map tiles to a named list,
and, as long as you manually press the "Update" button for each of
those map tiles within the next 29 days, you won't lose them.

Or so we hope.

[Calia]

On Mon, 12 May 2014 08:47:08 +0000, Calia wrote:

> I just tested this offline map saving feature on the latest Google Maps
> (version 3.0.0.21895) on iOS, & it seems to work OK (not perfect, but OK).

I will also test this on Android.
0. The Android Google Maps version was 7.4.0 (#704001123)
1. The new version loaded today is now 8.0.0 (#800001323)
2. I then saved a few named map tiles (e.g., map1, map2, map3, etc.)
3. I pressed my Google Persona "View all and manage" button
4. They all said "Expires in 30 days".
5. In a day or so, I will press "update", to see if the expiry date refreshes.

Two differences I saw between the iOS iPad and Android phone was
that the expiry date on iOS is 29 days while that of Android is
30 days. Go figure.

Also, the file size on iOS was roughly around 5 MB for each tile,
while similar tiles on Android were three times that size, at about
15 MB per map tile, in general.

But other than those two relatively minor differences, it seems
like the new Google Map offline list feature that SavageDuck
reported to us last Tuesday will allow us to prevent Google from
deleting the maps every 29 days (for iOS) or every 30 days (for
Android) if we manually press the "update" button for each and
every map tile.

Note: I'll check it tomorrow or the next day to see if it
will refresh back to 30 days when I press the "update" button.

In practice, that should work, but, what we should all ask
Google for (via their submit-feedback button) are the following:
obvious items:

a. Allow all map tiles to be updated en masse
(or an update-all checkbox)
b. Warn us when re-using a map tile name!
c. Suggest a name for the map tile
(if nothing else, the last name typed will work, so that we
can add a "1" or "2" or "east" or 'whatever').

[M.L.]

>Anyway, I still think CoPilot is rightly called crippleware simply
>because whatever speaking it has (on both Android & iOS) goes away
>after 14 days if you don't pay the $10 or $15 for it.

Fair enough if voice prompts are important. I used the freeware
version to locate my forthcoming bus stops when using public
transportation.

The $10. version includes only USA maps. Canadian maps are $5. extra.
The payware allows CoPilot to use Android's native TTS synthesizer for
voice navigation. After purchasing CoPilot I still tend not to use
voice navigation even when driving.

[VanguardLH]

Calia wrote:

> I just tested this offline map saving feature on the latest Google Maps
> (version 3.0.0.21895) on iOS, & it seems to work OK (not perfect, but OK).
>
> Here is what I just tested on an iOS iPad:
> 1. I created a Google identity (you need that to save maps to a list).
> 2. I saved a bunch of map tiles to my Google Identity "Offline Maps" list.
> 3. Pressing "View all and manage", all tiles reported "Expires in 29 days".
> 4. Two days later, all those saved map tiles reported "Expires in 27 days".
> 5. I pressed "Update" for a few of the saved map tiles.
> 6. Those updated ones now say "Expires in 29 days".
> 7. The rest still say "Expires in 27 days".
>
> So, it appears that you can save your Google Map tiles to a named list,
> and, as long as you manually press the "Update" button for each of
> those map tiles within the next 29 days, you won't lose them.
>
> Or so we hope.

So you have to go online within a month to update the maps or they
expire. Well, you probably won't be offline for a whole month; however,
you'll have to do a manual update instead of getting prompted a few days
before expiry or having it done automatically.

Too bad there isn't an Update function for the entire list. From what I
read, you can only locally cache 6 maps so having to update each isn't
too awful.

[Calia]

On Mon, 12 May 2014 09:10:40 -0500, M.L. wrote:

> The $10. version includes only USA maps. Canadian maps are $5. extra.
> The payware allows CoPilot to use Android's native TTS synthesizer for
> voice navigation. After purchasing CoPilot I still tend not to use
> voice navigation even when driving.

I may be wrong (because I haven't paid for it), but, are you saying that
the payware Android version of Alk CoPilot does speak road names?

The reason I ask is that, in my tests on two Android phones and on
two iPads, CoPilot (free) spoke road names only on the iPads (for the
first 14 days only). CoPilot spoke directions on both iPad and Android
during that same two-week period.

To confirm, I ask:
Q: Does the payware CoPilot actually speak road names on Android?

[Calia]

On Mon, 12 May 2014 12:56:24 -0500, VanguardLH wrote:

> So you have to go online within a month to update the maps or they
> expire. Well, you probably won't be offline for a whole month; however,
> you'll have to do a manual update instead of getting prompted a few days
> before expiry or having it done automatically.

I don't know yet if there is any prompt.
I doubt there will be any prompt, but, what I'll do is let a few expire
to see what happens.

On the iPad, that will be 29 days from downloading the map tile.
On Android, that will happen in 30 days (go figure).

> Too bad there isn't an Update function for the entire list. From what I
> read, you can only locally cache 6 maps so having to update each isn't
> too awful.

Hmmmmm... I heard before somewhere in this thread of a map limit but
I definitely have at least a dozen cached maps on iOS and it didn't complain
at all. On Android I have fewer (since I ran most of the tests on iOS),
but I have 7 already, and there's nothing that says there's a limit (yet).

I'm not saying there isn't a limit.

I'm just saying that I haven't run into it yet, nor have I seen anything
from Google saying there is a limit (not that I looked all that hard).

So, for now, I'll assume that the sky is the limit, until proven
otherwise.

[M.L.]

I don't use CoPilot for street name navigation but:

http://copilotgps.com/us/personal/android.asp
[quote]
Text-to-Speech voice guidance provides clear, detailed turn
instructions with full street names. For example, CoPilot will tell
you to "Turn right onto Main Street."
[/quote]

The free Android TTS sounds very robotic though.

[Nigel Wade]

My version certainly does in the UK.

When you did your tests, which voice did you select?
You need to use the Android TTS voice. If you choose any of the natural voices you can only get the pre-recorded
direction guidance. Speaking road names requires TTS,

[Calia]

On Sat, 10 May 2014 06:46:12 +0000, Calia wrote:

> And, if my hunch is correct that hitting the 'update' button
> manually for each named downloaded tile will move the expiry
> date forward, then, well, then we have a workaround to our
> problem as stated in the OP.

I had already tested the iPad, and confirmed that manually
hitting the "update" button refreshes the expiry date by
a month (actually, by 29 days).

Two days after initial download on the Android phone,
I can now confirm the manual update works the same (only
Google gives Android 30 days to the new expiry date).

PROS:
a. You can now save offline maps to a named set of lists.
b. Those tiles last a month (29 days on iOS, 30 on Android).
c. Manually pressing update refreshes a tile for another month.

CONS:
A. You must log in to your Google Map account to save to a list.
B. You must *manually* update the tiles individually.
C. If you forget to update, Google will likely delete in a month.

The main open question is whether there is any warning when
the map tiles are automatically deleted. I doubt it (since
there wasn't a warning in the prior Google Maps version).

IMHO, we should all team up and submit an enhancement
request via their "feedback" button, to either warn us,
or allow simultaneous multiple tile updates.

[Calia]

On Tue, 13 May 2014 05:22:14 -0500, M.L. wrote:

> http://copilotgps.com/us/personal/android.asp
> [quote]
> Text-to-Speech voice guidance provides clear, detailed turn
> instructions with full street names. For example, CoPilot will tell
> you to "Turn right onto Main Street."
> [/quote]

This is still confusing, because I read what you referenced,
and, it is not what I've experienced. So, I wonder if the
Copilot version or operating system platform version makes
a bigger difference than what that web page indicates?

What I heard with my own ears during the 14-day trial period was:
1. Two iPads (Air & Mini):
CoPilot US free spoke TTS road names during the trial period
2. Two Android phones:
CoPilot US free did not speak road names in the trial period.

However, what it says verbatim on this CoPilot web site is different:
http://copilotgps.com/us/compare/

A. CoPilot GPS
Basic route planning with option to upgrade to full voice-guided
navigation
Voice Guidance = $9.99 In-App upgrade
Text-to-Speech (TTS) = In-App upgrade to Text-to-Speech for
iPhone/iPad). Android & Windows Phone 8 includes Text-to-Speech
as standard.
B. CoPilot Premium
Full navigation with 12-months of ActiveTraffic included!
Voice Guidance = $9.99 In-App upgrade
Text-to-Speech (TTS) = checkmark

So, what is strange is that almost the exact opposite of what
the Copilot web site says, is what I am hearing.

I. On iPad, I'm hearing TTS during the 14-day trial period.
II. On Android, I'm *not* hearing any TTS during the trial period.

Makes no sense to me; but that is what it seems to be for me.

[Calia]

On Thu, 15 May 2014 02:50:09 +0000, Calia wrote:

> IMHO, we should all team up and submit an enhancement
> request via their "feedback" button,

Enhancement request list where I would suggest others
also make to Google via the Google Maps feedback button.

0. Don't delete offline saved content!

If they're gonna delete, then:
1. Enable an easier way to update-all offline map tiles.
2. Provide a 2-days-to-go deletion warning.
3. Visually show (perhaps with red dotted rectangles) what
map tiles are downloaded in a zoomed out map so that
we can see if they're contiguous.
4. Warn us when we name a map tile to an already used name.
5. Suggest names for the map tiles (to save on typing).
6. ?

[Calia]

On Wed, 14 May 2014 09:46:34 +0100, Nigel Wade wrote:

> When you did your tests, which voice did you select?
> You need to use the Android TTS voice. If you choose any of the natural voices you can only get the pre-recorded
> direction guidance. Speaking road names requires TTS,

I'm well past the 14-day Copilot trial period on Android so
I'm not sure what voice I had selected.

Probably I had left everything at the defaults.

Looking at my now-expired Android CoPilot crippleware
(version 9.5.0.440), inside CoPilot, the
Settings->Language & Voice is set to "US English".

It says, in gray, at the top of that "US English"
form, "Text-to-Speech voice that will speak full
street names" is "John".

At the bottom of that CoPilot form is a "Test" button,
which speaks, in male US English "Welcome to CoPilot".

So, certainly CoPilot "can" speak TTS road names on
Android. It just didn't do it for me in the initial
14-day trialware period, whereas it did do it for me
during that same trial period on the iPad.

This makes no sense. So, I'll leave it at that.

[Calia]

On Thu, 15 May 2014 03:35:19 +0000, Calia wrote:

> (version 9.5.0.440), inside CoPilot, the
> Settings->Language & Voice is set to "US English".

Looking at the Android 4.3 Samsung Galaxy S3 phone itself,
Settings->My Device->Language and Input->Speech->Text-to-speech options
my only two options for "Preferred TTS engine" are:
a. Samsung text-to-speech engine
b. Google Text-to-speech Engine

My Android phone was set to the Google TTS engine.

When I pressed the "Listen to an example" button at the bottom
of the form, the Google one clearly said "This is an example
of speech synthesis in English" better than did Samsung's TTS
engine.

[M.L.]

I just tested a route on my $10. Android GPS CoPilot. It definitely
announced street names during navigation.

[Calia]

On Thu, 15 May 2014 00:34:32 -0500, M.L. wrote:

> I just tested a route on my $10. Android GPS CoPilot. It definitely
> announced street names during navigation.

I'll accept that as a given now.

I might spring for the $10 now that I know Android CoPilot
actually does TTS speak the street names.

Thanks for bearing with me.
(I wish I understood why the discrepancy, but, sometimes, you gotta
just believe.) :)

[M.L.]

>> I just tested a route on my $10. Android GPS CoPilot. It definitely
>> announced street names during navigation.
>
>I'll accept that as a given now.
>
>I might spring for the $10 now that I know Android CoPilot
>actually does TTS speak the street names.
>
>Thanks for bearing with me.
>(I wish I understood why the discrepancy, but, sometimes, you gotta
>just believe.) :)

The free Android TTS voice sounds awful. Some street names are barely
intelligible.

[Pat Wilson]

M.L. wrote, on Thu, 15 May 2014 14:39:55 -0500:

> The free Android TTS voice sounds awful.
> Some street names are barely intelligible.

That brings me to something that confused me.

1. Android (apparently) has TTS voices
2. CoPilot (apparently) has TTS voices

Which ones are used?

For example, on my Android 4.3 phone (Samsung Galaxy SIII),
there are Google & Samsung TTS voices, found in Android
settings.

Yet, inside of Copilot settings, there are male and female
TTS voices.

I have to presume the ones inside of Copilot are used, right?

[M.L.]

>> The free Android TTS voice sounds awful.
>> Some street names are barely intelligible.
>
>That brings me to something that confused me.
>
>1. Android (apparently) has TTS voices
>2. CoPilot (apparently) has TTS voices
>
>Which ones are used?

The CoPilot TTS voices cost extra. My Android allowed the download of
one free TTS voice once I enabled the TTS option. However, I see that
other free TTS engines are available from 3rd party sources.

>For example, on my Android 4.3 phone (Samsung Galaxy SIII),
>there are Google & Samsung TTS voices, found in Android
>settings.
>
>Yet, inside of Copilot settings, there are male and female
>TTS voices.
>
>I have to presume the ones inside of Copilot are used, right?

The CoPilot male and female voices are not TTS.

[Nigel Wade]

On 15/05/14 16:41, Calia wrote:
> (I wish I understood why the discrepancy, but, sometimes, you gotta
> just believe.):)

Are you certain you had a TTS voice enabled on the Android device, and selected in CoPilot?
As I mentioned already, if you select any voice other than the TTS device you won't get street names.

[Nigel Wade]

On 16/05/14 01:50, Pat Wilson wrote:
> M.L. wrote, on Thu, 15 May 2014 14:39:55 -0500:
>
>> The free Android TTS voice sounds awful.
>> Some street names are barely intelligible.
>
> That brings me to something that confused me.
>
> 1. Android (apparently) has TTS voices
> 2. CoPilot (apparently) has TTS voices

My CoPilot does not have any TTS voices, it uses the Android TTS voice. Whichever TTS voice is selected in Language
settings.

>
> Which ones are used?

On my devices, the Android one (because that's all there is).

>
> For example, on my Android 4.3 phone (Samsung Galaxy SIII),
> there are Google & Samsung TTS voices, found in Android
> settings.
>
> Yet, inside of Copilot settings, there are male and female
> TTS voices.

Are you sure they are male and female TTS voices, and not analogue voices?
In my CoPilot there is only one option for TTS, com.google.android.tts. All the other "names" are analogue, with no TTS
capability.

[M.L.]

>>> The free Android TTS voice sounds awful.
>>> Some street names are barely intelligible.
>>
>> That brings me to something that confused me.
>>
>> 1. Android (apparently) has TTS voices
>> 2. CoPilot (apparently) has TTS voices
>
>My CoPilot does not have any TTS voices, it uses the Android TTS voice. Whichever TTS voice is selected in Language
>settings.

CoPilot has its own TTS voices for sale.

>> Which ones are used?
>
>On my devices, the Android one (because that's all there is).

>> For example, on my Android 4.3 phone (Samsung Galaxy SIII),
>> there are Google & Samsung TTS voices, found in Android
>> settings.
>>
>> Yet, inside of Copilot settings, there are male and female
>> TTS voices.
>
>Are you sure they are male and female TTS voices, and not analogue voices?
>In my CoPilot there is only one option for TTS, com.google.android.tts. All the other "names" are analogue, with no TTS
>capability.

You are correct.

[Chris Uppal]

Calia wrote:

> The main open question is whether there is any warning when
> the map tiles are automatically deleted. I doubt it (since
> there wasn't a warning in the prior Google Maps version).

You may be too pessimistic -- we'll see...

But deleting the cache (from app management) for Google Maps app, seem to
deletes the map tiles, but leaves the defined names in place. Then when you
next start Maps, it informs you that the tiles are no longer in the cache and
offers to take you to the update screen where you can refresh "them". Or
rather, just one of them, and once that one is refreshed it takes you away from
the update screen...

So you have to do the rest manually.

But maybe they'll have a bulk update option in place before your remaining
days' grace are up.

-- chris

[Calia]

On Sat, 17 May 2014 17:33:16 +0100, Chris Uppal wrote:

> maybe they'll have a bulk update option in place before your remaining
> days' grace are up.

Thanks Chris,
I think we can now mark this quest solved.
I do thank all of you for your kind help.

The critical solution to the problem was to update to the very latest
Google Maps on both Android and on iOS.

Then, the next step was to log into Google Maps (previously I had not
bothered to log into my Gmail account).

Then, the third step is to save the desired map tiles to a named list
which is stored with your account information on Google servers.

Lastly, every 29 (iOS) or 30 (Android) days, manually press the update
button, so that the map tiles are not deleted.

While this is a pain, it does work!
:)

PS: While Google Maps works fine offline, not only does CoPilot on
iOS/Android plus Navigator freeware on Android work far better
offline than Google Maps offline, but, you get to save an
entire country in one fell swoop, instead of measly 20x20 mile
map tiles, as on Google.

[Calia]

On Thu, 15 May 2014 23:36:21 -0500, M.L. wrote:

> The CoPilot male and female voices are not TTS.

I'm so confused. I'm sorry about that.

At this point, the CoPilot voices no longer work anyway as my
trial period must have expired.

So, the whole confusing affair is currently moot for me, but
for others, it will still be useful information.