Google Groups no longer supports new Usenet posts or subscriptions. Historical content remains viewable.
Dismiss
Stupidly made updates
5 views
Skip to first unread message
Carlos E.R.
May 6, 2022, 5:12:07 AM5/6/22
to
Hi,
Yesterday night, maybe about 2AM, I noticed my new phone (moto g52,
android 12) was not responsive. I handled it and it was asking for my
SIM pin, and then the entry pattern.
It had rebooted on its own.
Then I noticed it was saying something about an update.
Apparently I had both an Android Security Update, then a Google Play
system Update. The first had been downloaded automatically and silently,
then applied also automatically and silently, forcing a reboot; thus the
phone was not responsive. Had I been sleeping, the alarm clock in the
morning would not have worked and I would have lost appointments, or
going to work.
Stupid, negligent, unprofessional!
So I looked, and found a switch: intelligent updates. I disabled them.
Of course the phone complained bitterly. It even has the cheek to say
that important security updates will be applied automatically none the
less even if deactivated.
I can choose the hour range:
1:00 - 3:00
2:00 - 4:00
3:00 - 5:00
personalize
But there is nothing to "warn and ask before applying", so that I can be
looking to enter the pin on reboot!
So it is either disable, or choose an hour during the day. I can miss
phone calls if I don't look, but I will be looking more. Maybe
"intelligent" means reboot only if not actively used.
I am using "disabled" but hopping the phone then tells me it has an
update pending download and install, but I do not know if disabled means
totally disabled, forcing me to check manually for updates.
Interestingly, a lot of the screens in this phone have a three dots menu
with "send suggestions" entry. But not this one.
--
Cheers, Carlos.
Yesterday night, maybe about 2AM, I noticed my new phone (moto g52,
android 12) was not responsive. I handled it and it was asking for my
SIM pin, and then the entry pattern.
It had rebooted on its own.
Then I noticed it was saying something about an update.
Apparently I had both an Android Security Update, then a Google Play
system Update. The first had been downloaded automatically and silently,
then applied also automatically and silently, forcing a reboot; thus the
phone was not responsive. Had I been sleeping, the alarm clock in the
morning would not have worked and I would have lost appointments, or
going to work.
Stupid, negligent, unprofessional!
So I looked, and found a switch: intelligent updates. I disabled them.
Of course the phone complained bitterly. It even has the cheek to say
that important security updates will be applied automatically none the
less even if deactivated.
I can choose the hour range:
1:00 - 3:00
2:00 - 4:00
3:00 - 5:00
personalize
But there is nothing to "warn and ask before applying", so that I can be
looking to enter the pin on reboot!
So it is either disable, or choose an hour during the day. I can miss
phone calls if I don't look, but I will be looking more. Maybe
"intelligent" means reboot only if not actively used.
I am using "disabled" but hopping the phone then tells me it has an
update pending download and install, but I do not know if disabled means
totally disabled, forcing me to check manually for updates.
Interestingly, a lot of the screens in this phone have a three dots menu
with "send suggestions" entry. But not this one.
--
Cheers, Carlos.
Andy Burnelli
May 6, 2022, 11:16:27 AM5/6/22
to
Carlos E.R. wrote:
> So I looked, and found a switch: intelligent updates. I disabled them.
Thanks Carlos for bringing up the settings for updates, since when I looked
> So I looked, and found a switch: intelligent updates. I disabled them.
to help you find all of them, I realized one of the three locations I had
set incorrectly (probably because it was the default after I recently
updated to Android 12 and lost hundreds upon hundreds of apps in that
process).
<https://i.postimg.cc/fy7P3bJR/update18.jpg> Android 12 Update Locations
Where/how Google updates Android has long been driving me nuts trying to
understand, as I hate when I don't completely understand any topic I care
about controlling (and which marketing usually wants to control it for me).
I have Android12:Settings > Software update > Download and install
and Developer Options > Auto update system, which says:
"Apply updates when the phone restarts" and in the Google Play Store app
there are three dots and then Updates > Checking for updates which then
says "No updates available" yikes!!!! I know there were updates before.
Looking in Google Play Store three-dots Settings > Network preferences,
there is a settings for "Auto-update apps" with three options
Over any network
Over Wi-Fi only
Don't auto-update apps
Drat. Mine was set, by default, to "Over Wi-Fi only" for some reason.
I immediately fixed that!
In your case, Carlos, do you have Developer options enabled?
What's your setting there for the "Auto update system" option?
--
Usenet is where friendly people daily gather to discuss topics of interest.
AJL
May 6, 2022, 11:44:17 AM5/6/22
to
Carlos E.R. wrote:
> [Because of an unannounced phone update] Had I been sleeping, the
to keep the phone) would be to just get a dedicated alarm clock. Or even
a cheap digital watch. My watch (US$25) has a piercing alarm that can be
heard from the nightstand.
> It would be nice if when plugging the charger the phone asked
> whether we want a fast or a slow charge.
Or just slow charge overnight and always wake up to a full charge...
> [Because of an unannounced phone update] Had I been sleeping, the
> alarm clock in the morning would not have worked and I would have
> lost appointments, or going to work.
An easy solution for your missed work/appointments problem (if you want
> lost appointments, or going to work.
to keep the phone) would be to just get a dedicated alarm clock. Or even
a cheap digital watch. My watch (US$25) has a piercing alarm that can be
heard from the nightstand.
> It would be nice if when plugging the charger the phone asked
> whether we want a fast or a slow charge.
Or just slow charge overnight and always wake up to a full charge...
Jeff Layman
May 6, 2022, 1:20:53 PM5/6/22
to
of update available? These would be system updates (such as security),
system apps, and Play Store apps. Or are system updates and system app
updates the same thing?
With "System app updater" I get the option of "Don't update", update
with wi-fi only, or update with wifi and mobile data. Not sure where, or
if, "System updates" options can be found.
(Xiaomi Redmi Note 10)
--
Jeff
Andy Burnelli
May 6, 2022, 1:52:24 PM5/6/22
to
Jeff Layman wrote:
>> In your case, Carlos, do you have Developer options enabled?
>> What's your setting there for the "Auto update system" option?
>
> I find updating rather confusing (Android 11). Are there not three types
> of update available? These would be system updates (such as security),
> system apps, and Play Store apps. Or are system updates and system app
> updates the same thing?
>
> With "System app updater" I get the option of "Don't update", update
> with wi-fi only, or update with wifi and mobile data. Not sure where, or
> if, "System updates" options can be found.
>
> (Xiaomi Redmi Note 10)
As Andy Burns can confirm, Android updates all over the freakin' place.
>> In your case, Carlos, do you have Developer options enabled?
>> What's your setting there for the "Auto update system" option?
>
> I find updating rather confusing (Android 11). Are there not three types
> of update available? These would be system updates (such as security),
> system apps, and Play Store apps. Or are system updates and system app
> updates the same thing?
>
> With "System app updater" I get the option of "Don't update", update
> with wi-fi only, or update with wifi and mobile data. Not sure where, or
> if, "System updates" options can be found.
>
> (Xiaomi Redmi Note 10)
If I try, I can "probably" list all the places but they're scattered about.
<https://i.postimg.cc/854Qkrbw/update19.jpg> Android System Updates
<https://i.postimg.cc/0NgqVvQG/update20.jpg> Android Core App Updates
To your question, I have no idea what the Developer option update really
does in terms of why it's even there and how it affects system updates.
Google Play Store updates (itself and apps)
Google Play Services updates
Google Play System updates
Android version updates
Android security version patch levels
etc.
Carlos E.R.
May 6, 2022, 3:32:07 PM5/6/22
to
On 2022-05-06 17:44, AJL wrote:
> Carlos E.R. wrote:
>
>> [Because of an unannounced phone update] Had I been sleeping, the
>> alarm clock in the morning would not have worked and I would have
>> lost appointments, or going to work.
>
> An easy solution for your missed work/appointments problem (if you want
> to keep the phone) would be to just get a dedicated alarm clock. Or even
> a cheap digital watch. My watch (US$25) has a piercing alarm that can be
> heard from the nightstand.
Nope.
> Carlos E.R. wrote:
>
>> [Because of an unannounced phone update] Had I been sleeping, the
>> alarm clock in the morning would not have worked and I would have
>> lost appointments, or going to work.
>
> An easy solution for your missed work/appointments problem (if you want
> to keep the phone) would be to just get a dedicated alarm clock. Or even
> a cheap digital watch. My watch (US$25) has a piercing alarm that can be
> heard from the nightstand.
No, because I'm using a nice app (paid for) that tracks how one sleeps
and sounds the alarm in a range of 30 minutes when the sleep is light.
Waking up is nice, not a jolt.
When I have important appointments I certainly use another device as
secondary alarm.
>> It would be nice if when plugging the charger the phone asked
>> whether we want a fast or a slow charge.
>
> Or just slow charge overnight and always wake up to a full charge...
--
Cheers, Carlos.
Carlos E.R.
May 6, 2022, 4:16:07 PM5/6/22
to
On 2022-05-06 17:16, Andy Burnelli wrote:
> Carlos E.R. wrote:
>
>> So I looked, and found a switch: intelligent updates. I disabled them.
>
> Thanks Carlos for bringing up the settings for updates, since when I looked
> to help you find all of them, I realized one of the three locations I had
> set incorrectly (probably because it was the default after I recently
> updated to Android 12 and lost hundreds upon hundreds of apps in that
> process).
> <https://i.postimg.cc/fy7P3bJR/update18.jpg> Android 12 Update Locations
>
> Where/how Google updates Android has long been driving me nuts trying to
> understand, as I hate when I don't completely understand any topic I care
> about controlling (and which marketing usually wants to control it for me).
>
> I have Android12:Settings > Software update > Download and install
> and Developer Options > Auto update system, which says:
> "Apply updates when the phone restarts" and in the Google Play Store app
> there are three dots and then Updates > Checking for updates which then
> says "No updates available" yikes!!!! I know there were updates before.
>
> Looking in Google Play Store three-dots Settings > Network preferences,
> there is a settings for "Auto-update apps" with three options
> Over any network
> Over Wi-Fi only
> Don't auto-update apps
>
> Drat. Mine was set, by default, to "Over Wi-Fi only" for some reason.
> I immediately fixed that!
It is not about apps updates. It is about system or security updates.
> Carlos E.R. wrote:
>
>> So I looked, and found a switch: intelligent updates. I disabled them.
>
> Thanks Carlos for bringing up the settings for updates, since when I looked
> to help you find all of them, I realized one of the three locations I had
> set incorrectly (probably because it was the default after I recently
> updated to Android 12 and lost hundreds upon hundreds of apps in that
> process).
> <https://i.postimg.cc/fy7P3bJR/update18.jpg> Android 12 Update Locations
>
> Where/how Google updates Android has long been driving me nuts trying to
> understand, as I hate when I don't completely understand any topic I care
> about controlling (and which marketing usually wants to control it for me).
>
> I have Android12:Settings > Software update > Download and install
> and Developer Options > Auto update system, which says:
> "Apply updates when the phone restarts" and in the Google Play Store app
> there are three dots and then Updates > Checking for updates which then
> says "No updates available" yikes!!!! I know there were updates before.
>
> Looking in Google Play Store three-dots Settings > Network preferences,
> there is a settings for "Auto-update apps" with three options
> Over any network
> Over Wi-Fi only
> Don't auto-update apps
>
> Drat. Mine was set, by default, to "Over Wi-Fi only" for some reason.
> I immediately fixed that!
>
> In your case, Carlos, do you have Developer options enabled?
> What's your setting there for the "Auto update system" option?
one had to dance with the phone in one hand and a stick of incense on
the other around a candle in the sitting room for three times before
developer options menu would activate.
If I search for "actualiza" (Spanish root for several words about
"update or updating" I get (my translation):
Android security update
Google Play system update
Screen update frequency
License things
Motorola softawre update, application info
Software update, app information
The first and second entries both take to the same screen:
Android version - 12
Android security update: 2002-03-01
Google play system update: 2002-03-01
Base band version (bad translation?) - long string.
Kernel version - 4.19.157-perf+
Compilation number - ...
Thinkshield for phones
12.01.000
The second entry is a web page:
<https://source.android.com/security/bulletin?hl=es-419> or in English:
<https://source.android.com/security/bulletin?hl=en>
And the third entry says "reboot to update". There is a button to press
to complete the update. But there was no notification telling me this. I
think I saw it yesterday, then was gone. I checked this same menu
yesterday, it said nothing about rebooting. So I'll do that now.
...
I go back to the same entry, and what it does is first search for
updates, then display information. Now it says I have the April 1
update. Before it said I had the one for March. The May update has not
been generated, that web page above does says that. And there is a
button for searching at the bottom of the display in the phone.
Now the page says:
Android version - 12
Android security update: 2002-03-01
Google play system update: 2002-04-01
Base band version (bad translation?) - long string.
Kernel version - 4.19.157-perf+
Compilation number - ...
Thinkshield for phones
12.01.000
In the security main menu of the phone (under settings), there are
several entries:
security state
Google play protect
applications were analyzed yesterday at 21:32
Find my device
activated
Security update
2022-03-01
Google Play system update
2022-04-01
When tapping on the third entry, it does a quick test, then says that
everything seems correct, but at the bottom it suggest to activate
"intelligent updates". That is the problematic entry, because it
downloads (on WiFi) and applies them, without asking, at an hour of your
choice, without telling you.
So it seems I either choose a suitable time like 14:00 hours, or disable
it and do manual checks for ever.
--
Cheers, Carlos.
AJL
May 6, 2022, 5:05:59 PM5/6/22
to
On 5/6/2022 12:30 PM, Carlos E.R. wrote:
> On 2022-05-06 17:44, AJL wrote:
>> I charge overnight and always wake up to a full charge...
> On 2022-05-06 17:44, AJL wrote:
> Yes, that's what I do, but not using the manufacturer provided
> charger.
a 2A power supply that made the phone feel a bit warm so I replaced it
with a 1/2A supply and now the phone no longer feels warm but is still
fully charged in the morning. Was that a worthwhile battery friendly
mod? Dunno. But it was an easy mod so I figured why not...
Rob
May 7, 2022, 3:53:14 AM5/7/22
to
Carlos E.R. <robin_...@es.invalid> wrote:
> Hi,
>
> Yesterday night, maybe about 2AM, I noticed my new phone (moto g52,
> android 12) was not responsive. I handled it and it was asking for my
> SIM pin, and then the entry pattern.
What you see here is the result of incremental changes and losing
> Hi,
>
> Yesterday night, maybe about 2AM, I noticed my new phone (moto g52,
> android 12) was not responsive. I handled it and it was asking for my
> SIM pin, and then the entry pattern.
the big picture.
"before", a phone could just boot the OS and activate the background
apps entirely on its own. then you would need to enter the SIM PIN
to be able to call, and the device PIN or password to interact with it.
But that was deemed "insecure", the memory "had to be encrypted" and
the device password "has to be entered" to decrypt that.
Now, a phone will not boot at all without entering some info, and even
the background apps will not be running.
That may have made some security buffs happy, but it also has broken
a lot of things! Not only the scenario you depict here, but also
methods of "recovering the device password" via a linked account at
the manufacturer. We used to be able to unbrick phones when the user
had forgotten the device password, but no longer so. You can login
to the "my manufacturer" site and possibly still find the page where
you can request your phone to be unlocked or wiped, but it will no
longer work because after a reboot the phone does not call home before
the (lost) password is entered.
Stupid, indeed, like you explained.
But nothing we can do about anymore, it is like the migration of
all websites from http to https: useless in 99% of the time, but we
all have to do it "for the sake of security".
0 new messages