Better alternative to Sideline for a second private phone number

[Anda Lucite]

Do you have a better free alternative to Sideline for a 2nd
private phone number?

Sideline is just ok.

1. You get a free number for a month (unless you keep using it).
2. It separates your two numbers (except when you get calls).
** You can set it to go right to sideline voicemail to prevent
a voice mail from spilling over to your primary number.

So, Sideline works "just ok".

Got anything better though?

[Anda Lucite]

Anda Lucite wrote in message nb4glj$aei$5...@news.mixmin.net

> Got anything better though?

Nobody?

[Jon Danniken]

Tried talkatone yet?

Jon

[DWT]

Anda Lucite <andal...@andalucite.net> wrote in <nb7h0f$o8d$4...@news.mixmin.net>:

| Anda Lucite wrote in message nb4glj$aei$5...@news.mixmin.net

| > Got anything better though?

| Nobody?

"Better" is subjective.

Have you looked into TextNow or NextPlus? I don't recall seeing anyone else
mention them in this thread. I use TextNow and am happy enough with it.

--
David W. Tamkin

The reply address is bluelighted until 0600 UTC on 10Mar2016.

[Anda Lucite]

Jon Danniken wrote in message nb7n7l$325$1...@gioia.aioe.org

> Tried talkatone yet?

Thanks for that suggestion.

AFAIK, Talkatone doesn't give me a second phone number, unfortunately.

It just gives me an Internet ID so computers can call my phone & vice versa.
But that's not the same thing as a "second phone number".

Or....... maybe I misunderstood what Talkatone does?

[Anda Lucite]

DWT wrote in message nb7otk$s05$1...@reader1.panix.com

> Have you looked into TextNow or NextPlus? I don't recall seeing anyone else
> mention them in this thread. I use TextNow and am happy enough with it.

Thank you for that suggestion of TextNow or NextPlus for a free
2nd (private) phone line.

TextNow - free text + calls, By Enflick, Inc.
https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.enflick.android.TextNow
FREE SMS TEXTING, PICTURE MESSAGING, CALLING, AND VOICEMAIL
Free UNLIMITED calling and UNLIMITED SMS text messaging to all US &
Canadian phone numbers.
TextNow gives you your very own dedicated phone number with which you
can text and call your friends, family, significant others, neighbors,
or anyone else you would like!

Nextplus Free SMS Text + Calls, By textPlus
https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=me.nextplus.smsfreetext.phonecalls
Nextplus provides complete phone service packed into an app that’s free to
download and fun to use!
Calling anyone is now FREE just like text!
Sure you can pay for a phone plan but why not use Nextplus - the phone company
that makes calling and texting FREE?
YOUR NEXT PHONE COMPANY IS AN APP
- Receive a free phone number
- Free unlimited incoming and outgoing calls to any phone number
- Send and receive unlimited free text messages with anyone
- NO contracts, NO commitments, NO phone purchase, and NO hidden fees
- Compatible with all of your Android devices (phones and tablets)
- No cellular service required
- Fun and social features

While "Sideline" seems to use the existing calling plan (which means
all calls are easily traced to the original phone number), at least
"NextPlus" implies it's VOIP even though it gives you a phone number.

So I'll check these two apps out, but if it's VOIP, it should be
slightly more private, I think.

Both seem to give us a new second private phone number, but, I think
Sideline's number is easily traced back to my primary phone number, while
NextPlus's number seems to be tied to VOIP (which means to an IP address).

Is that assumption correct?

[Jon Danniken]

It says, "FREE LOCAL U.S. PHONE NUMBER" on Google Play; to me that means
you get a second phone number.

Jon

[Anda Lucite]

Jon Danniken wrote in message nb87o3$quv$1...@gioia.aioe.org

> It says, "FREE LOCAL U.S. PHONE NUMBER" on Google Play; to me
> that means you get a second phone number.

That does sound like a second phone number.
Here is the advertising blurb.

Talkatone: FREE Texts & Calls, By Talkatone, Llc
https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.talkatone.android

It says:
Free calls & texts via WiFi or cellular data, no cell minutes used.
Free inbound calls, free SMS texting, free recurring monthly outbound minutes
Free picture texting
Unlimited free in-app calls & texts with pictures
*FREE LOCAL U.S. PHONE NUMBER*
*Get a free U.S. phone number of your choice.*
Make and receive free texts and calls to U.S. phone numbers, including landlines.
If you don’t have a cell phone plan, Talkatone can be your only phone.
FREE CALLING & TEXTING TO REGULAR PHONES
All SMS texting and inbound calls are always free.
You get free outbound minutes every month.
If you run out of your free outbound minutes, you can easily purchase
additional minutes for a very low price or earn them for FREE by
completing simple and easy offers.
FREE PICTURE TEXTING and FREE MMS

So, I'll try this also, to see what the free number is all about.

[Andy Ho]

Anda Lucite wrote:

> That does sound like a second phone number.

No app is gonna give you a 2nd number for free you idiot.

[nospam]

In article <nbfsu1$19u0$1...@gioia.aioe.org>, Andy Ho

<and...@invalid.invalid> wrote:

>
> > That does sound like a second phone number.
>
> No app is gonna give you a 2nd number for free you idiot.

quite a few do.

[Arno Welzel]

A phone number for your mobile can not "given" by an app at all - you
need a provider which routes telefone calls on the number to your mobile.

The only way of getting additional telefone numbers on which you can be
reached on your mobile is some kind of VoIP client and a VoIP provider
where you can get a telefon number.


--
Arno Welzel
http://arnowelzel.de
http://de-rec-fahrrad.de
http://fahrradzukunft.de

[nospam]

In article <56DBFFFC...@arnowelzel.de>, Arno Welzel

<use...@arnowelzel.de> wrote:

> >>> That does sound like a second phone number.
> >>
> >> No app is gonna give you a 2nd number for free you idiot.
> >
> > quite a few do.
>
> A phone number for your mobile can not "given" by an app at all - you
> need a provider which routes telefone calls on the number to your mobile.

wrong.

> The only way of getting additional telefone numbers on which you can be
> reached on your mobile is some kind of VoIP client and a VoIP provider
> where you can get a telefon number.

in other words, another phone number.

[Arno Welzel]

nospam schrieb am 2016-03-06 um 19:35:

> In article <56DBFFFC...@arnowelzel.de>, Arno Welzel
> <use...@arnowelzel.de> wrote:
>
>>>>> That does sound like a second phone number.
>>>>
>>>> No app is gonna give you a 2nd number for free you idiot.
>>>
>>> quite a few do.
>>
>> A phone number for your mobile can not "given" by an app at all - you
>> need a provider which routes telefone calls on the number to your mobile.
>
> wrong.

No - right.

>> The only way of getting additional telefone numbers on which you can be
>> reached on your mobile is some kind of VoIP client and a VoIP provider
>> where you can get a telefon number.
>
> in other words, another phone number.

No - you need to run an app on the phone. What happens when you remove
the app? Can your phone still be called under that new number which the
app "created"?

[nospam]

In article <56DCA729...@arnowelzel.de>, Arno Welzel

<use...@arnowelzel.de> wrote:

> >> The only way of getting additional telefone numbers on which you can be
> >> reached on your mobile is some kind of VoIP client and a VoIP provider
> >> where you can get a telefon number.
> >
> > in other words, another phone number.
>
> No - you need to run an app on the phone. What happens when you remove
> the app? Can your phone still be called under that new number which the
> app "created"?

the same thing that happens when you cancel your cellular service.

the point is that there *are* free apps that provide free additional
phone numbers.

you're wrong.

[Arno Welzel]

nospam schrieb am 2016-03-06 um 23:08:

> In article <56DCA729...@arnowelzel.de>, Arno Welzel
> <use...@arnowelzel.de> wrote:
>
>>>> The only way of getting additional telefone numbers on which you can be
>>>> reached on your mobile is some kind of VoIP client and a VoIP provider
>>>> where you can get a telefon number.
>>>
>>> in other words, another phone number.
>>
>> No - you need to run an app on the phone. What happens when you remove
>> the app? Can your phone still be called under that new number which the
>> app "created"?
>
> the same thing that happens when you cancel your cellular service.

Wrong! The numbe still exists and can still be called! There is just no
software any longer on your phone to answer the "phone call" which is in
fact a VoIP connection using internet.

> the point is that there *are* free apps that provide free additional
> phone numbers.

You don't get it.

> you're wrong.

And you're ignorant.

[nospam]

In article <56DDB06F...@arnowelzel.de>, Arno Welzel

<use...@arnowelzel.de> wrote:

> >>>> The only way of getting additional telefone numbers on which you can be
> >>>> reached on your mobile is some kind of VoIP client and a VoIP provider
> >>>> where you can get a telefon number.
> >>>
> >>> in other words, another phone number.
> >>
> >> No - you need to run an app on the phone. What happens when you remove
> >> the app? Can your phone still be called under that new number which the
> >> app "created"?
> >
> > the same thing that happens when you cancel your cellular service.
>
> Wrong! The numbe still exists and can still be called! There is just no
> software any longer on your phone to answer the "phone call" which is in
> fact a VoIP connection using internet.

nope. you'll get a 'not in service' or similar message.

> > the point is that there *are* free apps that provide free additional
> > phone numbers.
>
> You don't get it.

i *do* get it.

i have a few apps that provide a unique phone number for free.

this even works with phones without active sims as well as non-phone
devices such as tablets or ipod touches.

> > you're wrong.
>
> And you're ignorant.

insults are a last resort.

[Robin McWhorter]

On Mon, 07 Mar 2016 12:22:13 -0500, nospam <nos...@nospam.invalid> wrote
for message 07032016122213...@nospam.invalid

> i have a few apps that provide a unique phone number for free.
>
> this even works with phones without active sims as well as non-phone
> devices such as tablets or ipod touches.

Name them!

[The Real Bev]

Google Hangouts/Voice (VOIP using wifi), for one. How well it works
depends on the strength of the signal you're getting.

--
Cheers, Bev
-----------------------------------------
"Not everyone can be above average so why
shouldn't we be the ones to suck?"
--Anonymous School Board Member

[nospam]

In article <nbkg50$3di$1...@news.albasani.net>, Robin McWhorter

<robi...@guerillamail.com> wrote:

> > i have a few apps that provide a unique phone number for free.
> >
> > this even works with phones without active sims as well as non-phone
> > devices such as tablets or ipod touches.
>
> Name them!

as i said at the beginning of this thread, do a search on the app store
or play store. very simple. others have already mentioned several of
them.

the original poster is not interested in solutions. he's only
interested in ranting.

[Arno Welzel]

nospam schrieb am 2016-03-07 um 18:22:

> In article <56DDB06F...@arnowelzel.de>, Arno Welzel
> <use...@arnowelzel.de> wrote:
>
>>>>>> The only way of getting additional telefone numbers on which you can be
>>>>>> reached on your mobile is some kind of VoIP client and a VoIP provider
>>>>>> where you can get a telefon number.
>>>>>
>>>>> in other words, another phone number.
>>>>
>>>> No - you need to run an app on the phone. What happens when you remove
>>>> the app? Can your phone still be called under that new number which the
>>>> app "created"?
>>>
>>> the same thing that happens when you cancel your cellular service.
>>
>> Wrong! The numbe still exists and can still be called! There is just no
>> software any longer on your phone to answer the "phone call" which is in
>> fact a VoIP connection using internet.
>
> nope. you'll get a 'not in service' or similar message.

Then this will also happen when you don't have an internet connection,
for example when your device does not have a network connection or
turned off.

>>> the point is that there *are* free apps that provide free additional
>>> phone numbers.
>>
>> You don't get it.
>
> i *do* get it.
>
> i have a few apps that provide a unique phone number for free.

But this phone number is NOT routed using the mobile network! It's in IP
based connection between the app and the service centre of the VoIP
provider.

> this even works with phones without active sims as well as non-phone
> devices such as tablets or ipod touches.

See above.

[nospam]

In article <56DFD032...@arnowelzel.de>, Arno Welzel

<use...@arnowelzel.de> wrote:

> >>>>>> The only way of getting additional telefone numbers on which you can be
> >>>>>> reached on your mobile is some kind of VoIP client and a VoIP provider
> >>>>>> where you can get a telefon number.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> in other words, another phone number.
> >>>>
> >>>> No - you need to run an app on the phone. What happens when you remove
> >>>> the app? Can your phone still be called under that new number which the
> >>>> app "created"?
> >>>
> >>> the same thing that happens when you cancel your cellular service.
> >>
> >> Wrong! The numbe still exists and can still be called! There is just no
> >> software any longer on your phone to answer the "phone call" which is in
> >> fact a VoIP connection using internet.
> >
> > nope. you'll get a 'not in service' or similar message.
>
> Then this will also happen when you don't have an internet connection,
> for example when your device does not have a network connection or
> turned off.

if there's no cellular signal, you won't be making or receiving phone
calls.

> >>> the point is that there *are* free apps that provide free additional
> >>> phone numbers.
> >>
> >> You don't get it.
> >
> > i *do* get it.
> >
> > i have a few apps that provide a unique phone number for free.
>
> But this phone number is NOT routed using the mobile network! It's in IP
> based connection between the app and the service centre of the VoIP
> provider.

so what?

you get a valid number that can make outbound calls and receive inbound
calls. that[s all that matters.

> > this even works with phones without active sims as well as non-phone
> > devices such as tablets or ipod touches.
>
> See above.

indeed.

[Arno Welzel]

nospam schrieb am 2016-03-09 um 10:19:

> In article <56DFD032...@arnowelzel.de>, Arno Welzel
> <use...@arnowelzel.de> wrote:

[...]

> if there's no cellular signal, you won't be making or receiving phone
> calls.

And if there is a cellular signal but no internet connectin I am able to
receive phone calls.

[...]

>> But this phone number is NOT routed using the mobile network! It's in IP
>> based connection between the app and the service centre of the VoIP
>> provider.
>
> so what?
>
> you get a valid number that can make outbound calls and receive inbound
> calls. that[s all that matters.

No, that's not all that matters. You also need a working internet
connection which is fast enough for VoIP and a data plan you can use if
you don't have a WiFi connection available.

[nospam]

In article <56DFF2EE...@arnowelzel.de>, Arno Welzel

<use...@arnowelzel.de> wrote:

> > if there's no cellular signal, you won't be making or receiving phone
> > calls.
>
> And if there is a cellular signal but no internet connectin I am able to
> receive phone calls.

if there's a cellular signal, you can do both

> >> But this phone number is NOT routed using the mobile network! It's in IP
> >> based connection between the app and the service centre of the VoIP
> >> provider.
> >
> > so what?
> >
> > you get a valid number that can make outbound calls and receive inbound
> > calls. that[s all that matters.
>
> No, that's not all that matters. You also need a working internet
> connection which is fast enough for VoIP and a data plan you can use if
> you don't have a WiFi connection available.

easy to do. 3g is sufficient, lte *much* more so.

[Arno Welzel]

nospam schrieb am 2016-03-09 um 16:28:

> In article <56DFF2EE...@arnowelzel.de>, Arno Welzel
> <use...@arnowelzel.de> wrote:
>
>>> if there's no cellular signal, you won't be making or receiving phone
>>> calls.
>>
>> And if there is a cellular signal but no internet connectin I am able to
>> receive phone calls.
>
> if there's a cellular signal, you can do both

Having a cellular signal does NOT mean that you also ALWAYS have a data
connection.

>>>> But this phone number is NOT routed using the mobile network! It's in IP
>>>> based connection between the app and the service centre of the VoIP
>>>> provider.
>>>
>>> so what?
>>>
>>> you get a valid number that can make outbound calls and receive inbound
>>> calls. that[s all that matters.
>>
>> No, that's not all that matters. You also need a working internet
>> connection which is fast enough for VoIP and a data plan you can use if
>> you don't have a WiFi connection available.
>
> easy to do. 3g is sufficient, lte *much* more so.

If you have 3G or LTE - which is not always the case.

[nospam]

In article <56E044C7...@arnowelzel.de>, Arno Welzel

<use...@arnowelzel.de> wrote:

> >>> if there's no cellular signal, you won't be making or receiving phone
> >>> calls.
> >>
> >> And if there is a cellular signal but no internet connectin I am able to
> >> receive phone calls.
> >
> > if there's a cellular signal, you can do both
>
> Having a cellular signal does NOT mean that you also ALWAYS have a data
> connection.

yes it does.

> >>>> But this phone number is NOT routed using the mobile network! It's in IP
> >>>> based connection between the app and the service centre of the VoIP
> >>>> provider.
> >>>
> >>> so what?
> >>>
> >>> you get a valid number that can make outbound calls and receive inbound
> >>> calls. that[s all that matters.
> >>
> >> No, that's not all that matters. You also need a working internet
> >> connection which is fast enough for VoIP and a data plan you can use if
> >> you don't have a WiFi connection available.
> >
> > easy to do. 3g is sufficient, lte *much* more so.
>
> If you have 3G or LTE - which is not always the case.

almost always.

[BugHunter]

Arno Welzel <use...@arnowelzel.de> schreef op Wo 9 Mrt 2016 om 16:44:

> nospam schrieb am 2016-03-09 um 16:28:
>
> > In article <56DFF2EE...@arnowelzel.de>, Arno Welzel
> > <use...@arnowelzel.de> wrote:
> >
> >>> if there's no cellular signal, you won't be making or receiving phone
> >>> calls.
> >>
> >> And if there is a cellular signal but no internet connectin I am able to
> >> receive phone calls.
> >
> > if there's a cellular signal, you can do both
>
> Having a cellular signal does NOT mean that you also ALWAYS have a data
> connection.

In my opinion you have.

>
> >>>> But this phone number is NOT routed using the mobile network! It's in IP
> >>>> based connection between the app and the service centre of the VoIP
> >>>> provider.
> >>>
> >>> so what?
> >>>
> >>> you get a valid number that can make outbound calls and receive inbound
> >>> calls. that[s all that matters.
> >>
> >> No, that's not all that matters. You also need a working internet
> >> connection which is fast enough for VoIP and a data plan you can use if
> >> you don't have a WiFi connection available.
> >
> > easy to do. 3g is sufficient, lte *much* more so.
>
> If you have 3G or LTE - which is not always the case.
>
>
> --
> Arno Welzel
> http://arnowelzel.de
> http://de-rec-fahrrad.de
> http://fahrradzukunft.de

--
____________________________________________
Bye, BugHunter.

[Arno Welzel]

BugHunter schrieb am 2016-03-09 um 16:45:

> Arno Welzel <use...@arnowelzel.de> schreef op Wo 9 Mrt 2016 om 16:44:
>> nospam schrieb am 2016-03-09 um 16:28:
>>
>>> In article <56DFF2EE...@arnowelzel.de>, Arno Welzel
>>> <use...@arnowelzel.de> wrote:
>>>
>>>>> if there's no cellular signal, you won't be making or receiving phone
>>>>> calls.
>>>>
>>>> And if there is a cellular signal but no internet connectin I am able to
>>>> receive phone calls.
>>>
>>> if there's a cellular signal, you can do both
>>
>> Having a cellular signal does NOT mean that you also ALWAYS have a data
>> connection.
>
>
> In my opinion you have.

In my reality you don't.

[Arno Welzel]

nospam schrieb am 2016-03-09 um 16:45:

> In article <56E044C7...@arnowelzel.de>, Arno Welzel
> <use...@arnowelzel.de> wrote:
>
>>>>> if there's no cellular signal, you won't be making or receiving phone
>>>>> calls.
>>>>
>>>> And if there is a cellular signal but no internet connectin I am able to
>>>> receive phone calls.
>>>
>>> if there's a cellular signal, you can do both
>>
>> Having a cellular signal does NOT mean that you also ALWAYS have a data
>> connection.
>
> yes it does.

But maybe in your country there are data plans with a limited volume per
month.

>>>>>> But this phone number is NOT routed using the mobile network! It's in IP
>>>>>> based connection between the app and the service centre of the VoIP
>>>>>> provider.
>>>>>
>>>>> so what?
>>>>>
>>>>> you get a valid number that can make outbound calls and receive inbound
>>>>> calls. that[s all that matters.
>>>>
>>>> No, that's not all that matters. You also need a working internet
>>>> connection which is fast enough for VoIP and a data plan you can use if
>>>> you don't have a WiFi connection available.
>>>
>>> easy to do. 3g is sufficient, lte *much* more so.
>>
>> If you have 3G or LTE - which is not always the case.
>
> almost always.

Where do you live? I don't know many places on the world where one does
have 3G or LTE "almost always".

[BugHunter]

Arno Welzel <use...@arnowelzel.de> schreef op Wo 9 Mrt 2016 om 17:58:

> BugHunter schrieb am 2016-03-09 um 16:45:
>
> > Arno Welzel <use...@arnowelzel.de> schreef op Wo 9 Mrt 2016 om 16:44:
> >> nospam schrieb am 2016-03-09 um 16:28:
> >>
> >>> In article <56DFF2EE...@arnowelzel.de>, Arno Welzel
> >>> <use...@arnowelzel.de> wrote:
> >>>
> >>>>> if there's no cellular signal, you won't be making or receiving phone
> >>>>> calls.
> >>>>
> >>>> And if there is a cellular signal but no internet connectin I am able to
> >>>> receive phone calls.
> >>>
> >>> if there's a cellular signal, you can do both
> >>
> >> Having a cellular signal does NOT mean that you also ALWAYS have a data
> >> connection.
> >
> >
> > In my opinion you have.
>
>
> In my reality you don't.

I think there is one channel, all for voice,
sms and data.

--
____________________________________________
Bye, BugHunter.

[Arno Welzel]

No, there isn't. You need at least to configure an APN so the mobile
knows how to get a data over the cellular connection. And the APN may
refuse the connection at all - e.g. when the data plan is limited and
the limit is already reached or you are in a roaming network and there
is data roaming etc..

[BugHunter]

Arno Welzel <use...@arnowelzel.de> schreef op Wo 9 Mrt 2016 om 18:37:

If the data dignal goes over the same
antenna as the voice, okay, maybe 2 channels
but no reason to do make not a data
connection.

--
____________________________________________
Bye, BugHunter.

[nospam]

In article <nbplfh$b7l$1...@dont-email.me>, BugHunter

<bugh...@com.invalid> wrote:

>
> I think there is one channel, all for voice,
> sms and data.

3g and below is one channel. lte is *only* data, so if there's no
volte, it's split between lte and 3g/hspa.

[nospam]

In article <56E05F7...@arnowelzel.de>, Arno Welzel

<use...@arnowelzel.de> wrote:

> >
> > I think there is one channel, all for voice,
> > sms and data.
>
> No, there isn't. You need at least to configure an APN so the mobile
> knows how to get a data over the cellular connection.

that's automatically done when the phone is activated.

> And the APN may
> refuse the connection at all - e.g. when the data plan is limited and
> the limit is already reached or you are in a roaming network and there
> is data roaming etc..

not an issue in nearly every scenario.

[nospam]

In article <56E056D8...@arnowelzel.de>, Arno Welzel

<use...@arnowelzel.de> wrote:

> >>>>> if there's no cellular signal, you won't be making or receiving phone
> >>>>> calls.
> >>>>
> >>>> And if there is a cellular signal but no internet connectin I am able to
> >>>> receive phone calls.
> >>>
> >>> if there's a cellular signal, you can do both
> >>
> >> Having a cellular signal does NOT mean that you also ALWAYS have a data
> >> connection.
> >
> > yes it does.
>
> But maybe in your country there are data plans with a limited volume per
> month.

the bandwidth allotment is another issue. the fact is that any time
there's a cellular signal, there's data available.

> >>>> No, that's not all that matters. You also need a working internet
> >>>> connection which is fast enough for VoIP and a data plan you can use if
> >>>> you don't have a WiFi connection available.
> >>>
> >>> easy to do. 3g is sufficient, lte *much* more so.
> >>
> >> If you have 3G or LTE - which is not always the case.
> >
> > almost always.
>
> Where do you live? I don't know many places on the world where one does
> have 3G or LTE "almost always".

usa, where 2g is being turned off and is expected to be fully shuttered
by the end of this year or early next year at the latest.

lte is *very* widely deployed and it's rare to drop to 3g except
possibly in fringe areas.

[BugHunter]

nospam <nos...@nospam.invalid> schreef op Wo 9 Mrt 2016 om 12:46:

It is possible to use one fast channel, and
packets send with different classes of
urgency. This is a simple and good way.

--
____________________________________________
Bye, BugHunter.

[nospam]

In article <nbpnm3$b7l$4...@dont-email.me>, BugHunter

<bugh...@com.invalid> wrote:

> > >
> > > I think there is one channel, all for voice,
> > > sms and data.
> >
> > 3g and below is one channel. lte is *only* data, so if there's no
> > volte, it's split between lte and 3g/hspa.
>
> It is possible to use one fast channel, and
> packets send with different classes of
> urgency. This is a simple and good way.

that's what volte does.

[BugHunter]

nospam <nos...@nospam.invalid> schreef op Wo 9 Mrt 2016 om 12:57:

But 4g use one channel. It looks like
internet. What do I say: it IS internet. And
I think voice has replaced with voip, which
have also camera.

--
____________________________________________
Bye, BugHunter.

[nospam]

In article <nbpp5q$o30$2...@dont-email.me>, BugHunter

<bugh...@com.invalid> wrote:

> > > > >
> > > > > I think there is one channel, all for voice,
> > > > > sms and data.
> > > >
> > > > 3g and below is one channel. lte is *only* data, so if there's no
> > > > volte, it's split between lte and 3g/hspa.
> > >
> > > It is possible to use one fast channel, and
> > > packets send with different classes of
> > > urgency. This is a simple and good way.
> >
> > that's what volte does.
>
>
> But 4g use one channel. It looks like
> internet. What do I say: it IS internet. And
> I think voice has replaced with voip, which
> have also camera.

4g is a marketing term, which can be hspa+ or lte.

if it's hspa+ then there are separate voice and data channels. if it's
lte, everything is data and for voice, both the phones and carriers at
both ends must support volte, or voice over lte. otherwise, it uses a
second 3g radio for voice while keeping data on lte.

[BugHunter]

nospam <nos...@nospam.invalid> schreef op Wo 9 Mrt 2016 om 13:32:

With packets there is no need for more
channels. Maybe now there is a transition
to the 4g.

--
____________________________________________
Bye, BugHunter.

[Arno Welzel]

BugHunter schrieb am 2016-03-09 um 18:41:

[...]

> If the data dignal goes over the same
> antenna as the voice, okay, maybe 2 channels
> but no reason to do make not a data
> connection.

As I tried to explain there *are* reasons why one may not have a data
connection of the cellular network even when there is a connection for
voice and sms.

[Arno Welzel]

nospam schrieb am 2016-03-09 um 18:46:

> In article <56E05F7...@arnowelzel.de>, Arno Welzel
> <use...@arnowelzel.de> wrote:
>
>>>
>>> I think there is one channel, all for voice,
>>> sms and data.
>>
>> No, there isn't. You need at least to configure an APN so the mobile
>> knows how to get a data over the cellular connection.
>
> that's automatically done when the phone is activated.

No, it isn't. Usually one has to confirm the configuration when
receiving the SMS from the provider with the configuration data.

>> And the APN may
>> refuse the connection at all - e.g. when the data plan is limited and
>> the limit is already reached or you are in a roaming network and there
>> is data roaming etc..
>
> not an issue in nearly every scenario.

I did not say "nearly every scenatio". I just try to explain, why data
connections may not be available. And network roaming or limited data
plans are not exotic exceptions which never occur.

[Arno Welzel]

nospam schrieb am 2016-03-09 um 18:46:

> In article <56E056D8...@arnowelzel.de>, Arno Welzel

[...]

>> Where do you live? I don't know many places on the world where one does
>> have 3G or LTE "almost always".
>
> usa, where 2g is being turned off and is expected to be fully shuttered
> by the end of this year or early next year at the latest.

Well - in Europe there are no plans to turn off 2G very soon. It will be
used at least until 2020 and neither Telekom, nor Vodafone or Telefonica
plan to turn off 2G at all.

> lte is *very* widely deployed and it's rare to drop to 3g except
> possibly in fringe areas.

Here it's the opposite - 3G ist widely deployed but not in rural areas
and even in bigger cities you often have spots where it's physically not
possible to get a 3G connection.

[Frank Slootweg]

Arno Welzel <use...@arnowelzel.de> wrote:
> nospam schrieb am 2016-03-09 um 18:46:
>
> > In article <56E05F7...@arnowelzel.de>, Arno Welzel
> > <use...@arnowelzel.de> wrote:
> >
> >>>
> >>> I think there is one channel, all for voice,
> >>> sms and data.
> >>
> >> No, there isn't. You need at least to configure an APN so the mobile
> >> knows how to get a data over the cellular connection.
> >
> > that's automatically done when the phone is activated.
>
> No, it isn't. Usually one has to confirm the configuration when
> receiving the SMS from the provider with the configuration data.

Don't bother/confuse nospam with pesky little details like that! He
doesn't know the difference between a phone and a SIM/service.

[...]

--
Frank Slootweg
I've been busy activating my phone for twenty odd years and it *still*
isn't done! Bummer!

[nospam]

In article <56E11BCD...@arnowelzel.de>, Arno Welzel

<use...@arnowelzel.de> wrote:

> > If the data dignal goes over the same
> > antenna as the voice, okay, maybe 2 channels
> > but no reason to do make not a data
> > connection.
>
> As I tried to explain there *are* reasons why one may not have a data
> connection of the cellular network even when there is a connection for
> voice and sms.

the opposite is also true.

[nospam]

In article <56E11C29...@arnowelzel.de>, Arno Welzel

<use...@arnowelzel.de> wrote:

> >>>
> >>> I think there is one channel, all for voice,
> >>> sms and data.
> >>
> >> No, there isn't. You need at least to configure an APN so the mobile
> >> knows how to get a data over the cellular connection.
> >
> > that's automatically done when the phone is activated.
>
> No, it isn't.

yes it is.

> Usually one has to confirm the configuration when
> receiving the SMS from the provider with the configuration data.

nope. it's all pushed to the phone automatically.

> >> And the APN may
> >> refuse the connection at all - e.g. when the data plan is limited and
> >> the limit is already reached or you are in a roaming network and there
> >> is data roaming etc..
> >
> > not an issue in nearly every scenario.
>
> I did not say "nearly every scenatio". I just try to explain, why data
> connections may not be available. And network roaming or limited data
> plans are not exotic exceptions which never occur.

lots of things might not be available. so what?

the battery in the phone could be dead. then what?

[Arno Welzel]

Nope. It's technically impossible to *always* have a data connection.

[Arno Welzel]

nospam schrieb am 2016-03-10 um 16:09:

> In article <56E11C29...@arnowelzel.de>, Arno Welzel
> <use...@arnowelzel.de> wrote:
>
>>>>>
>>>>> I think there is one channel, all for voice,
>>>>> sms and data.
>>>>
>>>> No, there isn't. You need at least to configure an APN so the mobile
>>>> knows how to get a data over the cellular connection.
>>>
>>> that's automatically done when the phone is activated.
>>
>> No, it isn't.
>
> yes it is.
>
>> Usually one has to confirm the configuration when
>> receiving the SMS from the provider with the configuration data.
>
> nope. it's all pushed to the phone automatically.

Then I have not seen normal phones in the last 10 years. On NONE of them
the configuration was pushed automatically.

[tlvp]

On Wed, 09 Mar 2016 16:45:23 +0100, BugHunter wrote:

>> ... Having a cellular signal does NOT mean that you also ALWAYS have a data

>> connection.
>
> In my opinion you have.

In my experience, both are possible, albeit rare: (1) to have a cellular
voice link weakly active, but no concomitant data connection; (2) to have a
functional data connection, but no usable voice link. HTH. Cheers, -- tlvp
--
Avant de repondre, jeter la poubelle, SVP.

[nospam]

In article <56E1AC5...@arnowelzel.de>, Arno Welzel

<use...@arnowelzel.de> wrote:

> >>> If the data dignal goes over the same
> >>> antenna as the voice, okay, maybe 2 channels
> >>> but no reason to do make not a data
> >>> connection.
> >>
> >> As I tried to explain there *are* reasons why one may not have a data
> >> connection of the cellular network even when there is a connection for
> >> voice and sms.
> >
> > the opposite is also true.
>
> Nope. It's technically impossible to *always* have a data connection.

nobody said anything about 'always'.

the fact is that data-only plans exist, which do *not* have voice *at*
*all*.

[nospam]

In article <56E1ACB9...@arnowelzel.de>, Arno Welzel

<use...@arnowelzel.de> wrote:


> >>>>> I think there is one channel, all for voice,
> >>>>> sms and data.
> >>>>
> >>>> No, there isn't. You need at least to configure an APN so the mobile
> >>>> knows how to get a data over the cellular connection.
> >>>
> >>> that's automatically done when the phone is activated.
> >>
> >> No, it isn't.
> >
> > yes it is.
> >
> >> Usually one has to confirm the configuration when
> >> receiving the SMS from the provider with the configuration data.
> >
> > nope. it's all pushed to the phone automatically.
>
> Then I have not seen normal phones in the last 10 years. On NONE of them
> the configuration was pushed automatically.

apparently not.

[Arno Welzel]

nospam schrieb am 2016-03-10 um 20:08:

> In article <56E1AC5...@arnowelzel.de>, Arno Welzel
> <use...@arnowelzel.de> wrote:
>
>>>>> If the data dignal goes over the same
>>>>> antenna as the voice, okay, maybe 2 channels
>>>>> but no reason to do make not a data
>>>>> connection.
>>>>
>>>> As I tried to explain there *are* reasons why one may not have a data
>>>> connection of the cellular network even when there is a connection for
>>>> voice and sms.
>>>
>>> the opposite is also true.
>>
>> Nope. It's technically impossible to *always* have a data connection.
>
> nobody said anything about 'always'.

You did: "the opposite is also true" - and the opposite of "one may not
have a data connection" is "one always has a data connection".

> the fact is that data-only plans exist, which do *not* have voice *at*
> *all*.

And you use a data-only-plan for your *phone*, which we talk about here?

[Arno Welzel]

JFTR: HTC Wildfire S, Samsung S3, Sony Xperia Z3 Compact with Telekom,
Telefonica and Vodafone - all of them asked to confirm the APN
configuration sent via SMS when using the SIM for the first time.

[nospam]

In article <56E24A61...@arnowelzel.de>, Arno Welzel

<use...@arnowelzel.de> wrote:

> >>>>> If the data dignal goes over the same
> >>>>> antenna as the voice, okay, maybe 2 channels
> >>>>> but no reason to do make not a data
> >>>>> connection.
> >>>>
> >>>> As I tried to explain there *are* reasons why one may not have a data
> >>>> connection of the cellular network even when there is a connection for
> >>>> voice and sms.
> >>>
> >>> the opposite is also true.
> >>
> >> Nope. It's technically impossible to *always* have a data connection.
> >
> > nobody said anything about 'always'.
>
> You did: "the opposite is also true" - and the opposite of "one may not
> have a data connection" is "one always has a data connection".

nope.

the opposite of 'one may not have a data connection when there is a
connection for voice/sms' is one may not have a voice/sms connection
when there is a connection for data.

> > the fact is that data-only plans exist, which do *not* have voice *at*
> > *all*.
>
> And you use a data-only-plan for your *phone*, which we talk about here?

such plans do exist.

[nospam]

In article <56E24AC7...@arnowelzel.de>, Arno Welzel

<use...@arnowelzel.de> wrote:

> >>>
> >>>> Usually one has to confirm the configuration when
> >>>> receiving the SMS from the provider with the configuration data.
> >>>
> >>> nope. it's all pushed to the phone automatically.
> >>
> >> Then I have not seen normal phones in the last 10 years. On NONE of them
> >> the configuration was pushed automatically.
> >
> > apparently not.
>
> JFTR: HTC Wildfire S, Samsung S3, Sony Xperia Z3 Compact with Telekom,
> Telefonica and Vodafone - all of them asked to confirm the APN
> configuration sent via SMS when using the SIM for the first time.

then your carrier is doing something wrong.

i've activated numerous phones over the years, including android
phones, iphones and flipphones, none of which needed an sms to
configure. it 'just worked'.

[Arno Welzel]

nospam schrieb am 2016-03-11 um 15:55:

> In article <56E24A61...@arnowelzel.de>, Arno Welzel
> <use...@arnowelzel.de> wrote:
>
>>>>>>> If the data dignal goes over the same
>>>>>>> antenna as the voice, okay, maybe 2 channels
>>>>>>> but no reason to do make not a data
>>>>>>> connection.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> As I tried to explain there *are* reasons why one may not have a data
>>>>>> connection of the cellular network even when there is a connection for
>>>>>> voice and sms.
>>>>>
>>>>> the opposite is also true.
>>>>
>>>> Nope. It's technically impossible to *always* have a data connection.
>>>
>>> nobody said anything about 'always'.
>>
>> You did: "the opposite is also true" - and the opposite of "one may not
>> have a data connection" is "one always has a data connection".
>
> nope.
>
> the opposite of 'one may not have a data connection when there is a
> connection for voice/sms' is one may not have a voice/sms connection
> when there is a connection for data.

We still talk about phones not tablets or USB sticks for data
connections on a laptop etc.

>>> the fact is that data-only plans exist, which do *not* have voice *at*
>>> *all*.
>>
>> And you use a data-only-plan for your *phone*, which we talk about here?
>
> such plans do exist.

I know. My question was if YOU use such a plan on YOUR phone so you
always have data connection?

[Arno Welzel]

nospam schrieb am 2016-03-11 um 15:55:

> In article <56E24AC7...@arnowelzel.de>, Arno Welzel
> <use...@arnowelzel.de> wrote:
>
>>>>>
>>>>>> Usually one has to confirm the configuration when
>>>>>> receiving the SMS from the provider with the configuration data.
>>>>>
>>>>> nope. it's all pushed to the phone automatically.
>>>>
>>>> Then I have not seen normal phones in the last 10 years. On NONE of them
>>>> the configuration was pushed automatically.
>>>
>>> apparently not.
>>
>> JFTR: HTC Wildfire S, Samsung S3, Sony Xperia Z3 Compact with Telekom,
>> Telefonica and Vodafone - all of them asked to confirm the APN
>> configuration sent via SMS when using the SIM for the first time.
>
> then your carrier is doing something wrong.

Or it is just handle different in other countries.

> i've activated numerous phones over the years, including android
> phones, iphones and flipphones, none of which needed an sms to
> configure. it 'just worked'.

Here in Europe it is the usual way to get an SMS with the APN
configuration or even set it up manually.

For example - Orange:

<http://www.orange.mu/mobile/configure-mobile-internet.php>

Or information how to set up internet connections for T-Mobile (Telekom):

<http://apn-settings.com/t-mobile-apn-settings-step-by-step-configuration/>

If this would alway be set automatically, nobody would need and use this
information.

[nospam]

In article <56E2FC5E...@arnowelzel.de>, Arno Welzel

<use...@arnowelzel.de> wrote:

> >>>>>>> If the data dignal goes over the same
> >>>>>>> antenna as the voice, okay, maybe 2 channels
> >>>>>>> but no reason to do make not a data
> >>>>>>> connection.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> As I tried to explain there *are* reasons why one may not have a data
> >>>>>> connection of the cellular network even when there is a connection for
> >>>>>> voice and sms.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> the opposite is also true.
> >>>>
> >>>> Nope. It's technically impossible to *always* have a data connection.
> >>>
> >>> nobody said anything about 'always'.
> >>
> >> You did: "the opposite is also true" - and the opposite of "one may not
> >> have a data connection" is "one always has a data connection".
> >
> > nope.
> >
> > the opposite of 'one may not have a data connection when there is a
> > connection for voice/sms' is one may not have a voice/sms connection
> > when there is a connection for data.
>
> We still talk about phones not tablets or USB sticks for data
> connections on a laptop etc.

i'm talking about phones.

however, since you brought up tablets and usb sticks, those *can't* get
sms texts, yet they auto-configure when activated. think about that.

> >>> the fact is that data-only plans exist, which do *not* have voice *at*
> >>> *all*.
> >>
> >> And you use a data-only-plan for your *phone*, which we talk about here?
> >
> > such plans do exist.
>
> I know. My question was if YOU use such a plan on YOUR phone so you
> always have data connection?

what i personally do is not relevant.

the fact is that there are data-only plans for phones, which means that
some people will have a data connection without a voice connection.

also, with lte, there are no separate voice connections anymore.
*everything* is a data connection.

[Arno Welzel]

nospam schrieb am 2016-03-11 um 19:41:

> In article <56E2FC5E...@arnowelzel.de>, Arno Welzel

[data-only plans for mobiles]

>> I know. My question was if YOU use such a plan on YOUR phone so you
>> always have data connection?
>
> what i personally do is not relevant.

It is - because it would be interesting if anyone uses a data-only plan
for a PHONE where one may want to send SMS or do calls as well.

> the fact is that there are data-only plans for phones, which means that
> some people will have a data connection without a voice connection.

Which makes no sense at all.

> also, with lte, there are no separate voice connections anymore.
> *everything* is a data connection.

LTE is not available at every place on the world.

[nospam]

In article <56E34073...@arnowelzel.de>, Arno Welzel

<use...@arnowelzel.de> wrote:

> [data-only plans for mobiles]
> >> I know. My question was if YOU use such a plan on YOUR phone so you
> >> always have data connection?
> >
> > what i personally do is not relevant.
>
> It is - because it would be interesting if anyone uses a data-only plan
> for a PHONE where one may want to send SMS or do calls as well.

although not many do, there are some who have data-only plans.

> > the fact is that there are data-only plans for phones, which means that
> > some people will have a data connection without a voice connection.
>
> Which makes no sense at all.

it does with a smartphone, where the bulk of usage is with apps.

> > also, with lte, there are no separate voice connections anymore.
> > *everything* is a data connection.
>
> LTE is not available at every place on the world.

eventually it will be.

[tlvp]

On Fri, 11 Mar 2016 13:41:38 -0500, nospam wrote:

> however, since you brought up ... usb sticks, those *can't* get
> sms texts ...

My Sierra Wireless at&t USB Connect GSM cellular data modem certainly
*does* receive (can even send) sms texts. Don't you class it a "usb stick"?

[tlvp]

On Fri, 11 Mar 2016 23:02:27 +0100, Arno Welzel wrote:

>> the fact is that there are data-only plans for phones, which means that
>> some people will have a data connection without a voice connection.
>
> Which makes no sense at all.

The sense it makes is that it enables internet access for a laptop,
notebook or other SIM-less device by tethering to the data-connected phone.

HTH. Cheers, -- tlvp

[tlvp]

On Fri, 11 Mar 2016 17:20:20 -0500, nospam wrote:

> eventually it will be.

You think your "eventually" will cut it when what I need I need today :-) ?

[nospam]

In article <1drb0ymtzes6a.1...@40tude.net>, tlvp

<mPiOsUcB...@att.net> wrote:

>
> > however, since you brought up ... usb sticks, those *can't* get
> > sms texts ...
>
> My Sierra Wireless at&t USB Connect GSM cellular data modem certainly
> *does* receive (can even send) sms texts. Don't you class it a "usb stick"?

the only sticks that can do that require an app to access the texts,
but regardless, it's not done for device setup. that part is automatic.

[tlvp]

On Fri, 11 Mar 2016 18:15:59 +0100, Arno Welzel wrote:

> Here in Europe it is the usual way to get an SMS with the APN
> configuration or even set it up manually.
>
> For example - Orange:
>
> <http://www.orange.mu/mobile/configure-mobile-internet.php>

Same is true for the Orange network in Poland (Orange (PL)).

> Or information how to set up internet connections for T-Mobile (Telekom):
>
> <http://apn-settings.com/t-mobile-apn-settings-step-by-step-configuration/>

Same was true for T-Mobile USA, a few years ago, anyway, when I first
replaced an old piece of equipment with a new (on an existing account).

On the other hand, these APN data settings were automagically configured by
an Italian cellular data provider I once used.

In short: "it depends" :-) .Cheers, -- tlvp

[tlvp]

On Fri, 11 Mar 2016 19:58:38 -0500, tlvp wrote:

> ... an Italian cellular data provider I once used ...

Name had escaped me, but it's back now: "TIM" (Telef. Ital. Mob.). Cheers,

[Arno Welzel]

tlvp schrieb am 2016-03-12 um 01:37:

> On Fri, 11 Mar 2016 23:02:27 +0100, Arno Welzel wrote:
>
>>> the fact is that there are data-only plans for phones, which means that
>>> some people will have a data connection without a voice connection.
>>
>> Which makes no sense at all.
>
> The sense it makes is that it enables internet access for a laptop,
> notebook or other SIM-less device by tethering to the data-connected phone.

For this use case I prefer an USB stick - cheaper, easier to handle and
it doesn't need an extra battery.

[Arno Welzel]

You're wrong again. At least the SIM in the USB stick needs to be
unlocked - how to get the PIN there if not by using some kind of
software? Oh - and the same software also knows the APN for data access.

[Kerr Mudd-John]

On Sat, 12 Mar 2016 08:40:50 -0000, Arno Welzel <use...@arnowelzel.de>
wrote:

> nospam schrieb am 2016-03-12 um 01:47:
>> In article <1drb0ymtzes6a.1...@40tude.net>, tlvp
>> <mPiOsUcB...@att.net> wrote:
>>
>>>
>>>> however, since you brought up ... usb sticks, those *can't* get
>>>> sms texts ...
>>>
>>> My Sierra Wireless at&t USB Connect GSM cellular data modem certainly
>>> *does* receive (can even send) sms texts. Don't you class it a "usb
>>> stick"?
>>
>> the only sticks that can do that require an app to access the texts,
>> but regardless, it's not done for device setup. that part is automatic.
>
> You're wrong again. At least the SIM in the USB stick needs to be
> unlocked - how to get the PIN there if not by using some kind of
> software? Oh - and the same software also knows the APN for data access.

He's a troll.

--
Bah, and indeed, Humbug

[nospam]

In article <56E3D5A...@arnowelzel.de>, Arno Welzel

<use...@arnowelzel.de> wrote:

> >
> >>> the fact is that there are data-only plans for phones, which means that
> >>> some people will have a data connection without a voice connection.
> >>
> >> Which makes no sense at all.
> >
> > The sense it makes is that it enables internet access for a laptop,
> > notebook or other SIM-less device by tethering to the data-connected phone.
>
> For this use case I prefer an USB stick - cheaper, easier to handle and
> it doesn't need an extra battery.

it's much easier to use a cellphone which you already have (eliminating
the need for yet another account).

plus, using a cellphone does not need something sticking out the side
along with custom driver software which is typically buggy.

you don't even need to remove the phone from your pocket. just open the
laptop and go online.

[nospam]

In article <56E3D6...@arnowelzel.de>, Arno Welzel

<use...@arnowelzel.de> wrote:

> >>> however, since you brought up ... usb sticks, those *can't* get
> >>> sms texts ...
> >>
> >> My Sierra Wireless at&t USB Connect GSM cellular data modem certainly
> >> *does* receive (can even send) sms texts. Don't you class it a "usb stick"?
> >
> > the only sticks that can do that require an app to access the texts,
> > but regardless, it's not done for device setup. that part is automatic.
>
> You're wrong again. At least the SIM in the USB stick needs to be
> unlocked

sims are not locked, but the stick might be.

> how to get the PIN there if not by using some kind of
> software? Oh - and the same software also knows the APN for data access.

what pin? plug stick in, go on line. done.

the apn is either automatically selected (as it is with both of my
sticks) or can be manually entered. it is *not* done via sms or pin
codes.

furthermore, if you plug the stick into a non-laptop, such as a
portable wifi router or a car, there's no way to run any software to be
able to get texts or enter pins no matter what you do.

[Frank Slootweg]

Arno Welzel <use...@arnowelzel.de> wrote:
> tlvp schrieb am 2016-03-12 um 01:37:
>
> > On Fri, 11 Mar 2016 23:02:27 +0100, Arno Welzel wrote:
> >
> >>> the fact is that there are data-only plans for phones, which means that
> >>> some people will have a data connection without a voice connection.
> >>
> >> Which makes no sense at all.
> >
> > The sense it makes is that it enables internet access for a laptop,
> > notebook or other SIM-less device by tethering to the data-connected phone.
>
> For this use case I prefer an USB stick - cheaper, easier to handle and
> it doesn't need an extra battery.

In both cases, I doubt that such a "data-only plans" actually
*prevents* (i.e. makes it impossible) one to use the 'voice' channel.

Both tethering to a phone and a USB-modem stick give the capability to
send/receive SMS messages, i.e. they can use the 'voice' channel. Also
these devices allow pseudo-SMS messages like 'calling' '*101#', which
are also using the 'voice' channel. Case in point: If my 'data' plan
could not 'call' '*101#', it would be *impossible* to manage my account.

Conclusion: Yet another urban legend from nospam's parallel universe.

[Frank Slootweg]

He's probably only using pre-configured (and probably provider-locked)
phones.

What you describe is indeed the normal way for non-pre-configured/non-
provider-locked phones/SIMs/services.

But the provider-locked phones which I bought over time, indeed had
the (default) APN (etc.) configuration hard-coded in their firmware.

[nospam]

In article <dkiq9g...@mid.individual.net>, Frank Slootweg

<th...@ddress.is.invalid> wrote:


> > >>> the fact is that there are data-only plans for phones, which means that
> > >>> some people will have a data connection without a voice connection.
> > >>
> > >> Which makes no sense at all.
> > >
> > > The sense it makes is that it enables internet access for a laptop,
> > > notebook or other SIM-less device by tethering to the data-connected
> > > phone.
> >
> > For this use case I prefer an USB stick - cheaper, easier to handle and
> > it doesn't need an extra battery.
>
> In both cases, I doubt that such a "data-only plans" actually
> *prevents* (i.e. makes it impossible) one to use the 'voice' channel.

they do prevent voice/texts. that's why they're called data-only plans.

if you call the assigned number, you'll get a recorded message that the
number does not accept calls. if you try to make a call, it will fail.

> Both tethering to a phone and a USB-modem stick give the capability to
> send/receive SMS messages, i.e. they can use the 'voice' channel. Also
> these devices allow pseudo-SMS messages like 'calling' '*101#', which
> are also using the 'voice' channel. Case in point: If my 'data' plan
> could not 'call' '*101#', it would be *impossible* to manage my account.
>
> Conclusion: Yet another urban legend from nospam's parallel universe.

wrong.

[nospam]

In article <dkiqrj...@mid.individual.net>, Frank Slootweg

<th...@ddress.is.invalid> wrote:

> > If this would alway be set automatically, nobody would need and use this
> > information.
>
> He's probably only using pre-configured (and probably provider-locked)
> phones.

nope.

> What you describe is indeed the normal way for non-pre-configured/non-
> provider-locked phones/SIMs/services.
>
> But the provider-locked phones which I bought over time, indeed had
> the (default) APN (etc.) configuration hard-coded in their firmware.

except that's not what's being used.

[Arno Welzel]

nospam schrieb am 2016-03-12 um 13:25:

> In article <56E3D5A...@arnowelzel.de>, Arno Welzel
> <use...@arnowelzel.de> wrote:
>
>>>
>>>>> the fact is that there are data-only plans for phones, which means that
>>>>> some people will have a data connection without a voice connection.
>>>>
>>>> Which makes no sense at all.
>>>
>>> The sense it makes is that it enables internet access for a laptop,
>>> notebook or other SIM-less device by tethering to the data-connected phone.
>>
>> For this use case I prefer an USB stick - cheaper, easier to handle and
>> it doesn't need an extra battery.
>
> it's much easier to use a cellphone which you already have (eliminating
> the need for yet another account).

Not for me - that's the reason why I choose the USB stick ;-).

And yes - I did tethering long before I had an Android device using
Bluetooth and later continued using the WiFi AP on my HTC Wildfire S.

> plus, using a cellphone does not need something sticking out the side
> along with custom driver software which is typically buggy.

Linux does not need any "custom driver software" - it supports most
mobile data USB sticks out of the box. And "sticking out of the side"
doesn't matter for me - usually I use my laptop at places where I have
enough room around the laptop anyway.

> you don't even need to remove the phone from your pocket. just open the
> laptop and go online.

You always have the WiFi access point in your phone activated? I don't -
because this would mean that the device cannot use WiFi for it's own
internet connectivity and it needs more power when the AP is activated.

[Arno Welzel]

Frank Slootweg schrieb am 2016-03-12 um 16:18:

> Arno Welzel <use...@arnowelzel.de> wrote:
>> tlvp schrieb am 2016-03-12 um 01:37:
>>
>>> On Fri, 11 Mar 2016 23:02:27 +0100, Arno Welzel wrote:
>>>
>>>>> the fact is that there are data-only plans for phones, which means that
>>>>> some people will have a data connection without a voice connection.
>>>>
>>>> Which makes no sense at all.
>>>
>>> The sense it makes is that it enables internet access for a laptop,
>>> notebook or other SIM-less device by tethering to the data-connected phone.
>>
>> For this use case I prefer an USB stick - cheaper, easier to handle and
>> it doesn't need an extra battery.
>
> In both cases, I doubt that such a "data-only plans" actually
> *prevents* (i.e. makes it impossible) one to use the 'voice' channel.

It does. Because the provider can of course control which services are
available and which are not.

> Both tethering to a phone and a USB-modem stick give the capability to
> send/receive SMS messages, i.e. they can use the 'voice' channel. Also

Only if the plan includes these services.

> these devices allow pseudo-SMS messages like 'calling' '*101#', which
> are also using the 'voice' channel. Case in point: If my 'data' plan
> could not 'call' '*101#', it would be *impossible* to manage my account.

You don't really do a "call" when using services codes like *101#. These
are just services messages to the network or your device, nothing else.

[Arno Welzel]

nospam schrieb am 2016-03-12 um 13:25:

> In article <56E3D6...@arnowelzel.de>, Arno Welzel
> <use...@arnowelzel.de> wrote:
>
>>>>> however, since you brought up ... usb sticks, those *can't* get
>>>>> sms texts ...
>>>>
>>>> My Sierra Wireless at&t USB Connect GSM cellular data modem certainly
>>>> *does* receive (can even send) sms texts. Don't you class it a "usb stick"?
>>>
>>> the only sticks that can do that require an app to access the texts,
>>> but regardless, it's not done for device setup. that part is automatic.
>>
>> You're wrong again. At least the SIM in the USB stick needs to be
>> unlocked
>
> sims are not locked, but the stick might be.

SIMs *are* locked by a PIN. Ok, maybe not in your country, where things
seem to be handled quite different.

>> how to get the PIN there if not by using some kind of
>> software? Oh - and the same software also knows the APN for data access.
>
> what pin? plug stick in, go on line. done.

Not here. The last data only SIM I got from Vodafone needed a PIN.

> the apn is either automatically selected (as it is with both of my
> sticks) or can be manually entered. it is *not* done via sms or pin
> codes.

Because the software for the stick knows which APNs to use for which
network. But this is not the case for EVERY mobile network in the world,
just the ones which where known at the time the software was created.

> furthermore, if you plug the stick into a non-laptop, such as a
> portable wifi router or a car, there's no way to run any software to be
> able to get texts or enter pins no matter what you do.

Where did I say that a data USB stick needs SMS activation? Of course it
does not since there is software handling this. For phones this is
possible as well - but for Android devices which were not sold in a
bundle with a contract I know only the other way getting a configuration
SMS.

[nospam]

In article <56E49FEC...@arnowelzel.de>, Arno Welzel

<use...@arnowelzel.de> wrote:

> >>>>> the fact is that there are data-only plans for phones, which means that
> >>>>> some people will have a data connection without a voice connection.
> >>>>
> >>>> Which makes no sense at all.
> >>>
> >>> The sense it makes is that it enables internet access for a laptop,
> >>> notebook or other SIM-less device by tethering to the data-connected
> >>> phone.
> >>
> >> For this use case I prefer an USB stick - cheaper, easier to handle and
> >> it doesn't need an extra battery.
> >
> > it's much easier to use a cellphone which you already have (eliminating
> > the need for yet another account).
>
> Not for me - that's the reason why I choose the USB stick ;-).
>
> And yes - I did tethering long before I had an Android device using
> Bluetooth and later continued using the WiFi AP on my HTC Wildfire S.

i used to tether with a *serial* cable.

> > plus, using a cellphone does not need something sticking out the side
> > along with custom driver software which is typically buggy.
>
> Linux does not need any "custom driver software" - it supports most
> mobile data USB sticks out of the box. And "sticking out of the side"
> doesn't matter for me - usually I use my laptop at places where I have
> enough room around the laptop anyway.

the problem isn't while it's in use. it's when you move or carry the
laptop.

> > you don't even need to remove the phone from your pocket. just open the
> > laptop and go online.
>
> You always have the WiFi access point in your phone activated?

i have wifi and bluetooth enabled at all times. there is on need to
disable them, even on a plane. that includes functioning as a wifi
hotspot.

> I don't -
> because this would mean that the device cannot use WiFi for it's own
> internet connectivity and it needs more power when the AP is activated.

which device?

a smartphone can intelligently switch between wifi and cellular
connections with the handoff normally not noticeable.

[nospam]

In article <56E4A21B...@arnowelzel.de>, Arno Welzel

<use...@arnowelzel.de> wrote:

> >>> the only sticks that can do that require an app to access the texts,
> >>> but regardless, it's not done for device setup. that part is automatic.
> >>
> >> You're wrong again. At least the SIM in the USB stick needs to be
> >> unlocked
> >
> > sims are not locked, but the stick might be.
>
> SIMs *are* locked by a PIN. Ok, maybe not in your country, where things
> seem to be handled quite different.

sims *can* be locked by a pin. normally they are not.

> >> how to get the PIN there if not by using some kind of
> >> software? Oh - and the same software also knows the APN for data access.
> >
> > what pin? plug stick in, go on line. done.
>
> Not here. The last data only SIM I got from Vodafone needed a PIN.

that's a carrier issue, not a limitation of the technology.

> > the apn is either automatically selected (as it is with both of my
> > sticks) or can be manually entered. it is *not* done via sms or pin
> > codes.
>
> Because the software for the stick knows which APNs to use for which
> network. But this is not the case for EVERY mobile network in the world,
> just the ones which where known at the time the software was created.

it's not like that list changes all that much. worst case you type in
the info manually once and it's stored for future use.

> > furthermore, if you plug the stick into a non-laptop, such as a
> > portable wifi router or a car, there's no way to run any software to be
> > able to get texts or enter pins no matter what you do.
>
> Where did I say that a data USB stick needs SMS activation? Of course it
> does not since there is software handling this. For phones this is
> possible as well - but for Android devices which were not sold in a
> bundle with a contract I know only the other way getting a configuration
> SMS.

smartphones can be activated without sms configuration.

[tlvp]

On Sat, 12 Mar 2016 18:11:50 -0500, nospam wrote:

> the problem isn't while it's in use. it's when you move or carry the
> laptop.

I usually take the fork out of my mouth, and the USB stick out of the port,
before I leave the table :-) . Don't you? Cheers, -- tlvp

[tlvp]

On Sat, 12 Mar 2016 18:14:42 -0500, nospam wrote:

> ... it's not like that list changes all that much. ...

FSVO "much" :-) . But with hundreds of providers world-wide, merging,
failing, starting up, changing domain and APN names, ... . Cheers, -- tlvp

[Arno Welzel]

nospam schrieb am 2016-03-13 um 00:11:

> In article <56E49FEC...@arnowelzel.de>, Arno Welzel
> <use...@arnowelzel.de> wrote:
>
>>>>>>> the fact is that there are data-only plans for phones, which means that
>>>>>>> some people will have a data connection without a voice connection.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Which makes no sense at all.
>>>>>
>>>>> The sense it makes is that it enables internet access for a laptop,
>>>>> notebook or other SIM-less device by tethering to the data-connected
>>>>> phone.
>>>>
>>>> For this use case I prefer an USB stick - cheaper, easier to handle and
>>>> it doesn't need an extra battery.
>>>
>>> it's much easier to use a cellphone which you already have (eliminating
>>> the need for yet another account).
>>
>> Not for me - that's the reason why I choose the USB stick ;-).
>>
>> And yes - I did tethering long before I had an Android device using
>> Bluetooth and later continued using the WiFi AP on my HTC Wildfire S.
>
> i used to tether with a *serial* cable.

Me too. And IrDA as well on a Palm Pilot with a infrared module and a
Siemens S25 for mobile data access.

>>> plus, using a cellphone does not need something sticking out the side
>>> along with custom driver software which is typically buggy.
>>
>> Linux does not need any "custom driver software" - it supports most
>> mobile data USB sticks out of the box. And "sticking out of the side"
>> doesn't matter for me - usually I use my laptop at places where I have
>> enough room around the laptop anyway.
>
> the problem isn't while it's in use. it's when you move or carry the
> laptop.

Why should I leave the USB stick plugged in when the laptop is not in use?

>>> you don't even need to remove the phone from your pocket. just open the
>>> laptop and go online.
>>
>> You always have the WiFi access point in your phone activated?
>
> i have wifi and bluetooth enabled at all times. there is on need to
> disable them, even on a plane. that includes functioning as a wifi
> hotspot.

When you enable the hotspot you can not use WiFi on the device itself
any longer.

>> I don't -
>> because this would mean that the device cannot use WiFi for it's own
>> internet connectivity and it needs more power when the AP is activated.
>
> which device?

The Android device one on which you activate the hotspot.

> a smartphone can intelligently switch between wifi and cellular
> connections with the handoff normally not noticeable.

I know (BTW: I work in a software company which also develops software
for Android and iOS).

But: When you enable the WiFi hotspot on the Android device it can not
use an existing WiFi connection for itself any longer but must connect
using a cellular connection.

[Arno Welzel]

nospam schrieb am 2016-03-13 um 00:14:

> In article <56E4A21B...@arnowelzel.de>, Arno Welzel
> <use...@arnowelzel.de> wrote:
>
>>>>> the only sticks that can do that require an app to access the texts,
>>>>> but regardless, it's not done for device setup. that part is automatic.
>>>>
>>>> You're wrong again. At least the SIM in the USB stick needs to be
>>>> unlocked
>>>
>>> sims are not locked, but the stick might be.
>>
>> SIMs *are* locked by a PIN. Ok, maybe not in your country, where things
>> seem to be handled quite different.
>
> sims *can* be locked by a pin. normally they are not.

Yes - in *your* country. Go and get a SIM in Germany or France or UK -
there you usually ALWAYS get one with a PIN.

>>>> how to get the PIN there if not by using some kind of
>>>> software? Oh - and the same software also knows the APN for data access.
>>>
>>> what pin? plug stick in, go on line. done.
>>
>> Not here. The last data only SIM I got from Vodafone needed a PIN.
>
> that's a carrier issue, not a limitation of the technology.

So what? I never claimed that the technology does not allow a SIM
without a PIN. Even when there is a PIN you can easily disable it after
unlocking the SIM once.

[...]

>> Because the software for the stick knows which APNs to use for which
>> network. But this is not the case for EVERY mobile network in the world,
>> just the ones which where known at the time the software was created.
>
> it's not like that list changes all that much. worst case you type in
> the info manually once and it's stored for future use.

Yep - and to make exactly THIS process easier, carriers in Europe send a
configuration SMS to the device which uses the SIM for the first time.

Are you really so stubborn to think the way how it's handled in your
country is the technological standard?

[nospam]

In article <1hz0eq7w5jtvd.q...@40tude.net>, tlvp

<mPiOsUcB...@att.net> wrote:

>
> > ... it's not like that list changes all that much. ...
>
> FSVO "much" :-) . But with hundreds of providers world-wide, merging,
> failing, starting up, changing domain and APN names, ... . Cheers, -- tlvp

apns don't change much because users don't like when things suddenly
stops working.

[nospam]

In article <rm3cahry7qet$.zueocq7yy9z5$.d...@40tude.net>, tlvp

<mPiOsUcB...@att.net> wrote:

> > the problem isn't while it's in use. it's when you move or carry the
> > laptop.
>
> I usually take the fork out of my mouth, and the USB stick out of the port,
> before I leave the table :-) . Don't you? Cheers, -- tlvp

i haven't had a need for a usb stick in years. tethering to a phone is
*so* much more convenient. i don't even need to remove it from my
pocket anymore.

[nospam]

In article <56E53EBA...@arnowelzel.de>, Arno Welzel

<use...@arnowelzel.de> wrote:

> >>> plus, using a cellphone does not need something sticking out the side
> >>> along with custom driver software which is typically buggy.
> >>
> >> Linux does not need any "custom driver software" - it supports most
> >> mobile data USB sticks out of the box. And "sticking out of the side"
> >> doesn't matter for me - usually I use my laptop at places where I have
> >> enough room around the laptop anyway.
> >
> > the problem isn't while it's in use. it's when you move or carry the
> > laptop.
>
> Why should I leave the USB stick plugged in when the laptop is not in use?

exactly the point. it's a pain in the ass to plug/unplug all the time.

using a phone is easier.

> >>> you don't even need to remove the phone from your pocket. just open the
> >>> laptop and go online.
> >>
> >> You always have the WiFi access point in your phone activated?
> >
> > i have wifi and bluetooth enabled at all times. there is on need to
> > disable them, even on a plane. that includes functioning as a wifi
> > hotspot.
>
> When you enable the hotspot you can not use WiFi on the device itself
> any longer.

not necessarily.

> >> I don't -
> >> because this would mean that the device cannot use WiFi for it's own
> >> internet connectivity and it needs more power when the AP is activated.
> >
> > which device?
>
> The Android device one on which you activate the hotspot.

i don't tether to android devices. i use android devices for other
things.

> > a smartphone can intelligently switch between wifi and cellular
> > connections with the handoff normally not noticeable.
>
> I know (BTW: I work in a software company which also develops software
> for Android and iOS).
>
> But: When you enable the WiFi hotspot on the Android device it can not
> use an existing WiFi connection for itself any longer but must connect
> using a cellular connection.

there's nothing to enable, but regardless, it's not an issue because if
there was wifi, there would be no reason to tether.

[nospam]

In article <56E53FFD...@arnowelzel.de>, Arno Welzel

i'd ask that question of you.

over here, no sms is needed.

[Frank Slootweg]

tlvp <mPiOsUcB...@att.net> wrote:
> On Sat, 12 Mar 2016 18:11:50 -0500, nospam wrote:
>
> > the problem isn't while it's in use. it's when you move or carry the
> > laptop.
>
> I usually take the fork out of my mouth, and the USB stick out of the port,
> before I leave the table :-) . Don't you? Cheers, -- tlvp

Shall I mention USB sticks which swivel along the side of the laptop?
Nah, I won't!

[Frank Slootweg]

Arno Welzel <use...@arnowelzel.de> wrote:
> Frank Slootweg schrieb am 2016-03-12 um 16:18:

[...]

> > these devices allow pseudo-SMS messages like 'calling' '*101#', which
> > are also using the 'voice' channel. Case in point: If my 'data' plan
> > could not 'call' '*101#', it would be *impossible* to manage my account.
>
> You don't really do a "call" when using services codes like *101#. These
> are just services messages to the network or your device, nothing else.

Yes, I know it's not a call, that's why I used scare-quotes around
"call".

But my point is that these service messages *do* use the 'voice'
channel, i.e. *both* the data channel *and* the 'voice' channel are
used, even when - from a user's perspective - it's all data, not voice.

[Frank Slootweg]

tlvp <mPiOsUcB...@att.net> wrote:
> On Sat, 12 Mar 2016 18:14:42 -0500, nospam wrote:
>
> > ... it's not like that list changes all that much. ...
>
> FSVO "much" :-) . But with hundreds of providers world-wide, merging,
> failing, starting up, changing domain and APN names, ... . Cheers, -- tlvp

Stop whinging, tlvp! "worst case you type in the info manually once
and it's stored for future use." So how do you *get* the info which you
need to type in? Well from the provider's website of course, you loon!
And how do you *access* that website? With your phone of course, you
bloody idiot! Oops! Something isn't quite right there!

Maybe, just maybe, these pushed-by-SMS configuration settings have
their use after all!?

Nah, can't be! All the mobile providers which are doing this must be
complete morons, because nospam says it's not needed!

[tlvp]

On 13 Mar 2016 15:40:05 GMT, Frank Slootweg wrote:

> Shall I mention USB sticks which swivel along the side of the laptop?
> Nah, I won't!

Well, feel free to ... anyway, you just *did* :-) . Cheers, -- tlvp

[tlvp]

On Sun, 13 Mar 2016 09:36:03 -0500, nospam wrote:

> apns don't change much because users don't like when things suddenly
> stops working.

...and user preferences have been dictating company policies since...when?

:-) Cheers, -- tlvp

[tlvp]

On 13 Mar 2016 15:57:31 GMT, Frank Slootweg wrote:

> ... Stop whinging, tlvp! ...

Umm ... "whinging" ... is that Nederlands for "whining and cringing"? or
"whispering and singing"? And which of those two "*-inging" words should it
rhyme with :-) ? This would-be polyglot needs to know. Dank U wel, -- tlvp

[tlvp]

On Sun, 13 Mar 2016 09:36:04 -0500, nospam wrote:

> ... over here, no sms is needed. ...

Or rather, it's called an OTA configuration message, not an sms :-) . But
gets sent through the same channels as sms gets sent. And T-Mobile USA
sends each of us one, each time we return to the USA from abroad, so as to
be sure we're using the right APN for home, again. As for whether it's
"needed" or not, I shan't take sides. All I know is: it happens. Regularly.

Cheers, -- tlvp

[Frank Slootweg]

tlvp <mPiOsUcB...@att.net> wrote:
> On 13 Mar 2016 15:57:31 GMT, Frank Slootweg wrote:
>
> > ... Stop whinging, tlvp! ...
>
> Umm ... "whinging" ... is that Nederlands for "whining and cringing"? or
> "whispering and singing"? And which of those two "*-inging" words should it
> rhyme with :-) ? This would-be polyglot needs to know. Dank U wel, -- tlvp

No worries, mate, it's strine.

<http://www.dictionary.com/browse/whinging?s=t>

<http://www.dictionary.com/browse/strine?s=t>

[Arno Welzel]

nospam schrieb am 2016-03-13 um 15:36:

> In article <56E53EBA...@arnowelzel.de>, Arno Welzel
> <use...@arnowelzel.de> wrote:
>
>>>>> plus, using a cellphone does not need something sticking out the side
>>>>> along with custom driver software which is typically buggy.
>>>>
>>>> Linux does not need any "custom driver software" - it supports most
>>>> mobile data USB sticks out of the box. And "sticking out of the side"
>>>> doesn't matter for me - usually I use my laptop at places where I have
>>>> enough room around the laptop anyway.
>>>
>>> the problem isn't while it's in use. it's when you move or carry the
>>> laptop.
>>
>> Why should I leave the USB stick plugged in when the laptop is not in use?
>
> exactly the point. it's a pain in the ass to plug/unplug all the time.

Not for me.

> using a phone is easier.

Not for me. But fortunately everbody has the freedom to choose whatever
is needed. So be happy using your phone for tethering and I have my USB
stick and everbody is happy.

[...]

>> When you enable the hotspot you can not use WiFi on the device itself
>> any longer.
>
> not necessarily.

[...]

> i don't tether to android devices. i use android devices for other
> things.

Well - but this newsgroup is "comp.mobile.android".

[...]

>> But: When you enable the WiFi hotspot on the Android device it can not
>> use an existing WiFi connection for itself any longer but must connect
>> using a cellular connection.
>
> there's nothing to enable, but regardless, it's not an issue because if

It is - Android has a setting to enable or disable the hotspot in the
network settings.

> there was wifi, there would be no reason to tether.

When you let the hotspot enabled on Android, the Android device will
*always* use the cellular network for its own internet connection - even
if there is WiFi network available.

But you don't know this of course as you don't even use an Android
device for this purpose.

[Arno Welzel]

Frank Slootweg schrieb am 2016-03-13 um 16:47:

> Arno Welzel <use...@arnowelzel.de> wrote:
>> Frank Slootweg schrieb am 2016-03-12 um 16:18:
> [...]
>>> these devices allow pseudo-SMS messages like 'calling' '*101#', which
>>> are also using the 'voice' channel. Case in point: If my 'data' plan
>>> could not 'call' '*101#', it would be *impossible* to manage my account.
>>
>> You don't really do a "call" when using services codes like *101#. These
>> are just services messages to the network or your device, nothing else.
>
> Yes, I know it's not a call, that's why I used scare-quotes around
> "call".
>
> But my point is that these service messages *do* use the 'voice'

[...]

They don't. That's why it is called "service messages". Some of these
numbers don't even get to the network but are only handled in the device
itself.

[Arno Welzel]

Ok - maybe we can just agree that mobile carriers handle things
different in different areas of the world.

[Frank Slootweg]

Arno Welzel <use...@arnowelzel.de> wrote:
> Frank Slootweg schrieb am 2016-03-13 um 16:47:
>
> > Arno Welzel <use...@arnowelzel.de> wrote:
> >> Frank Slootweg schrieb am 2016-03-12 um 16:18:
> > [...]
> >>> these devices allow pseudo-SMS messages like 'calling' '*101#', which
> >>> are also using the 'voice' channel. Case in point: If my 'data' plan
> >>> could not 'call' '*101#', it would be *impossible* to manage my account.
> >>
> >> You don't really do a "call" when using services codes like *101#. These
> >> are just services messages to the network or your device, nothing else.
> >
> > Yes, I know it's not a call, that's why I used scare-quotes around
> > "call".
> >
> > But my point is that these service messages *do* use the 'voice'
> [...]
>
> They don't. That's why it is called "service messages".

You cut this bit:

> > channel, i.e. *both* the data channel *and* the 'voice' channel are
> > used, even when - from a user's perspective - it's all data, not voice.

I think you're mistaken. These service messages *do* use the 'voice'
channel. Note the scare quotes, i.e. it's (of course) not real voice,
but they use the same channel as is used for voice (talking/listening)
and SMS. That is proven by the fact that these service messages also
work on a 'dumb' phone, which does not even *have* a data channel (i.e.
no GPRS or higher).

Case in point: For my Vodafone (NL) service, 'dialling' (if you prefer
that over 'calling') the '*101#' number which I mentioned, returns a
message with the amount and expiry date of my pre-paid credit. It does
that also on a 'dumb' phone (i.e. one without GPRS or higher).

> Some of these
> numbers don't even get to the network but are only handled in the device
> itself.

I know.

Perhaps the confusion stems for the use of the term 'channel'.

In my use, there's a 'voice' channel for voice, SMS and service
messages and a data channel for (mostly Internet) data. A 'dumb' phone
may only have the former. a smart phone will probably have both and a
data-only device such as a tablet or laptop may only have the latter.

[nospam]

In article <dklful...@mid.individual.net>, Frank Slootweg

<th...@ddress.is.invalid> wrote:

> > > the problem isn't while it's in use. it's when you move or carry the
> > > laptop.
> >
> > I usually take the fork out of my mouth, and the USB stick out of the port,
> > before I leave the table :-) . Don't you? Cheers, -- tlvp
>
> Shall I mention USB sticks which swivel along the side of the laptop?
> Nah, I won't!

it still needs to be removed before putting it into a bag.