Can GPS receiver/logger be connected via USB to android tablet?

[Some Guy]

I have a small GPS receiver / logger based on the MTK chipset, similar
to products such as iBlue, Holux, Qstarz and Photomate (I have the
Photomate 887). These have USB interface to allow the device to stream
real-time GPS coordinates through the USB or bluetooth to a PC (or
compatible camera).

Is it at all possible for an Android tablet with USB port to receive GPS
data from these devices and plot your position on (some) available
mapping program - to essentially turn the tablet into the equivalent of
a Garmin or Tomtom (etc) GPS trip navigator?

Would an android app do the actual "talking" directly through the USB to
the receiver, or is that something that the OS itself would (or must)
do?

A second question is - are there any android tablets with actual GPS
receivers built into them?

A third question - for an android tablet that doesn't have internal
bluetooth, can bluetooth be added via USB adapter?

[nospam]

In article <ls56pt$glj$1...@speranza.aioe.org>, Some Guy <"Some"@Guy>
wrote:

> A second question is - are there any android tablets with actual GPS
> receivers built into them?

many do.

> A third question - for an android tablet that doesn't have internal
> bluetooth, can bluetooth be added via USB adapter?

unlikely, and who wants a dongle hanging off the tablet anyway?

[Roger Mills]

On 09/08/2014 14:16, Some Guy wrote:
> I have a small GPS receiver / logger based on the MTK chipset, similar
> to products such as iBlue, Holux, Qstarz and Photomate (I have the
> Photomate 887). These have USB interface to allow the device to stream
> real-time GPS coordinates through the USB or bluetooth to a PC (or
> compatible camera).
>
> Is it at all possible for an Android tablet with USB port to receive GPS
> data from these devices and plot your position on (some) available
> mapping program - to essentially turn the tablet into the equivalent of
> a Garmin or Tomtom (etc) GPS trip navigator?
>

Unlikely. A tablet's USB port by default is the 'slave' type, which lets
the tablet appear to a computer as an external storage device. You can,
though, buy an OTG (on-the-go) adapter cable which allows the tablet to
act as a 'master' for the connection of devices such as mice or external
keyboards. But the functionality of this is somewhat limited -
especially if the tablet is not 'rooted' - so I wouldn't be optimistic
about it working with a GPS.

>
> A second question is - are there any android tablets with actual GPS
> receivers built into them?
>

Many (perhaps the majority?) do. My Google [Samsung] Nexus 10 certainly
does, as does my wife's Motorola Moto G android smartphone. With the GPS
turned on, you can see your current location on a number of mapping Aps.

> A third question - for an android tablet that doesn't have internal
> bluetooth, can bluetooth be added via USB adapter?

Again unlikely, as per Question 1.
--
Cheers,
Roger
____________
Please reply to Newsgroup. Whilst email address is valid, it is seldom
checked.

[Some Guy]

nospam wrote:

> > are there any android tablets with actual GPS
> > receivers built into them?
>
> many do.

Many people think they do, when in fact they are using wifi-based
geo-location.

I've talked to several people with android tablets who thought they had
GPS receivers, and when asked to dig into their hardware setup, or show
me an app that shows satellite details - they discover they don't have
"real" GPS.

> > A third question - for an android tablet that doesn't have
> > internal bluetooth, can bluetooth be added via USB adapter?
>
> unlikely, and who wants a dongle hanging off the tablet anyway?

When your tablet doesn't have internal bluetooth, what else are you
going to do?

Maybe there are bluetooth stubs that plug directly into mini or micro
usb ports?

For tablets with internal GPS and/or bluetooth, how do those receivers
connect to the "guts" of the system? Via internal USB ports?

[The Real Bev]

On 08/09/2014 08:35 AM, Roger Mills wrote:

> On 09/08/2014 14:16, Some Guy wrote:
>> I have a small GPS receiver / logger based on the MTK chipset, similar
>> to products such as iBlue, Holux, Qstarz and Photomate (I have the
>> Photomate 887). These have USB interface to allow the device to stream
>> real-time GPS coordinates through the USB or bluetooth to a PC (or
>> compatible camera).
>>
>> Is it at all possible for an Android tablet with USB port to receive GPS
>> data from these devices and plot your position on (some) available
>> mapping program - to essentially turn the tablet into the equivalent of
>> a Garmin or Tomtom (etc) GPS trip navigator?
>>
>
> Unlikely. A tablet's USB port by default is the 'slave' type, which lets
> the tablet appear to a computer as an external storage device. You can,
> though, buy an OTG (on-the-go) adapter cable which allows the tablet to
> act as a 'master' for the connection of devices such as mice or external
> keyboards. But the functionality of this is somewhat limited -
> especially if the tablet is not 'rooted' - so I wouldn't be optimistic
> about it working with a GPS.
>>
>> A second question is - are there any android tablets with actual GPS
>> receivers built into them?

I suspect that they all do now. Whenever I look at the specs of a
tablet or phone, GPS is always listed.

> Many (perhaps the majority?) do. My Google [Samsung] Nexus 10 certainly
> does, as does my wife's Motorola Moto G android smartphone. With the GPS
> turned on, you can see your current location on a number of mapping Aps.

FWIW, Osmand is free and writes maps and other files to the external sd
card if that's what you want.

>> A third question - for an android tablet that doesn't have internal
>> bluetooth, can bluetooth be added via USB adapter?
>
> Again unlikely, as per Question 1.

You can order USB bluetooth adapters from the usual Chinese mail-order
places for a couple of bucks if you want to give it a shot. I think
mine was 99 cents from Deal Extreme and I plugged it into my computer to
test the phone's bluetooth capabilities. Miserably slow for file
transfer, but it worked.

--
Cheers, Bev
xoxoxoxoxoxoxoxoxoxoxoxoxoxoxoxoxoxoxoxoxoxoxox
"Every normal man must be tempted, at times, to
spit on his hands, hoist the black flag, and
begin slitting throats." -- H.L. Mencken

[Some Guy]

Roger Mills wrote:

> > Is it at all possible for an Android tablet with USB port to
> > receive GPS data from these devices
>

> Unlikely. A tablet's USB port by default is the 'slave' type,
> which lets the tablet appear to a computer as an external storage
> device.

My tablet (Polaroid PMID705, 7" screen) has an external keyboard that
plugs into mini-usb port. I can also read and write USB thumb drives
through that port. You can buy those tablets (with small leather folio
with integrated keyboard) for about $90 around here.

http://www.polaroidstore.com/products/tablet-cases/polaroid-7-inch-tablet-keyboard-stand-black-pac3201.htm

> But the functionality of this is somewhat limited - especially
> if the tablet is not 'rooted' - so I wouldn't be optimistic
> about it working with a GPS.

I've rooted my tablet.

But why on earth aren't they making more use of tablets (at least
android tablets) as USB master devices so that you can do a whole lot
more stuff with them? There's a whole universe of USB devices out there
that would be really cool to connect to a tablet.

Now they're crying that tablet sales are slowing down. Well no-shit,
when you handicap them to hell.

> > A second question is - are there any android tablets with
> > actual GPS receivers built into them?
>
> Many (perhaps the majority?) do.

I have to see any tablet under $150 that has GPS.

Don't confuse wifi-based geo-location with GPS. Many people do.

I recently bought an Acer Iconia A3-A10 (not Tab A3) for $200. It
doesn't have GPS. The pdf manual for it can be found here:

http://www.cellphones.ca/upload/manuals/acer-iconia-a3-manual.pdf

It does not list GPS anywhere in the specifications section.

If you think your tablet has a real GPS satellite receiver, then bring
up an app that shows your current satellite reception.

> My Google [Samsung] Nexus 10 certainly does, as does my wife's
> Motorola Moto G android smartphone.

Yes, I downloaded the manual for Nexus 10:

http://images.comparecellular.com/phones/1788/nexus-10-manual.pdf

And it lists GPS as one of the "sensors". So I assume you can bring up
an app that shows how many satellites you're receiving at any given
time.

[nospam]

In article <ls5ocm$qlt$1...@speranza.aioe.org>, Some Guy <"Some"@Guy>

wrote:

> > > are there any android tablets with actual GPS
> > > receivers built into them?
> >
> > many do.
>
> Many people think they do, when in fact they are using wifi-based
> geo-location.
>
> I've talked to several people with android tablets who thought they had
> GPS receivers, and when asked to dig into their hardware setup, or show
> me an app that shows satellite details - they discover they don't have
> "real" GPS.

what tablets were they?

the ever popular nexus 7 has a gps, as do the galaxy tabs i just
checked. although not android, ipads with cellular have gps.

> > > A third question - for an android tablet that doesn't have
> > > internal bluetooth, can bluetooth be added via USB adapter?
> >
> > unlikely, and who wants a dongle hanging off the tablet anyway?
>
> When your tablet doesn't have internal bluetooth, what else are you
> going to do?

get another tablet that does.

who wants a dongle on a mobile device? are you going to leave it
connected all the time? it's going to break off.

> Maybe there are bluetooth stubs that plug directly into mini or micro
> usb ports?
>
> For tablets with internal GPS and/or bluetooth, how do those receivers
> connect to the "guts" of the system? Via internal USB ports?

there aren't any internal usb ports.

stop thinking about it as pc. it's a mobile device.

[nospam]

In article <ls5pkh$td2$1...@speranza.aioe.org>, Some Guy <"Some"@Guy>

wrote:

> > > Is it at all possible for an Android tablet with USB port to
> > > receive GPS data from these devices
> >
> > Unlikely. A tablet's USB port by default is the 'slave' type,
> > which lets the tablet appear to a computer as an external storage
> > device.
>
> My tablet (Polaroid PMID705, 7" screen) has an external keyboard that
> plugs into mini-usb port. I can also read and write USB thumb drives
> through that port. You can buy those tablets (with small leather folio
> with integrated keyboard) for about $90 around here.
>
> http://www.polaroidstore.com/products/tablet-cases/polaroid-7-inch-tablet-keyb
> oard-stand-black-pac3201.htm

you really expect a tablet for $90 to include a gps??

> > But the functionality of this is somewhat limited - especially
> > if the tablet is not 'rooted' - so I wouldn't be optimistic
> > about it working with a GPS.
>
> I've rooted my tablet.
>
> But why on earth aren't they making more use of tablets (at least
> android tablets) as USB master devices so that you can do a whole lot
> more stuff with them? There's a whole universe of USB devices out there
> that would be really cool to connect to a tablet.

because the use cases for that don't make any sense, and all those usb
devices would require drivers and that just complicates things.

and who wants a hard drive or other peripheral hanging off a tablet or
phone?

mobile devices interface wirelessly, over wifi, bluetooth or cellular,
depending on what the task is.

> Now they're crying that tablet sales are slowing down. Well no-shit,
> when you handicap them to hell.

they're not slowing down and they're not handicapped either. for some
things, tablets are much better and for other things not so much. no
one device is perfect for everything.

there's also a seasonal component, which is what they're reporting.

this is the slow season. come this holiday season, sales will go back
up. overall, mobile device sales are increasing, while pcs are
contracting.

there's also a bit of an overlap, where people are getting phablets, a
combo tablet/phone, rather than a larger tablet. that doesn't get
counted as a pure tablet, but it's used as one, and runs the same os,
so the numbers aren't all that accurate anyway.

> > > A second question is - are there any android tablets with
> > > actual GPS receivers built into them?
> >
> > Many (perhaps the majority?) do.
>
> I have to see any tablet under $150 that has GPS.

you get what you pay for.

if you want something under $150, it's going to have fewer features
than something over $150.

> Don't confuse wifi-based geo-location with GPS. Many people do.

no, not that many people do.

>
> I recently bought an Acer Iconia A3-A10 (not Tab A3) for $200. It
> doesn't have GPS. The pdf manual for it can be found here:
>
> http://www.cellphones.ca/upload/manuals/acer-iconia-a3-manual.pdf
>
> It does not list GPS anywhere in the specifications section.

the manual talks about a gps and the specs confirm it:
<http://us.acer.com/ac/en/US/content/model-datasheet/NT.L2YAA.001>

also, a nexus 7 for just over $200 has a gps.

> If you think your tablet has a real GPS satellite receiver, then bring
> up an app that shows your current satellite reception.

plenty of apps can do that.

> > My Google [Samsung] Nexus 10 certainly does, as does my wife's
> > Motorola Moto G android smartphone.
>
> Yes, I downloaded the manual for Nexus 10:
>
> http://images.comparecellular.com/phones/1788/nexus-10-manual.pdf
>
> And it lists GPS as one of the "sensors". So I assume you can bring up
> an app that shows how many satellites you're receiving at any given
> time.

why is seeing how many satellites important? what are you going to do
with that information?

what matters is knowing your location and to what accuracy and offer
info based on that (e.g., nearest gas station or pizza shop) or
navigating to a new location (e.g., turn by turn directions).

knowing how many satellites you're receiving is not useful.

[Some Guy]

nospam wrote:

> you really expect a tablet for $90 to include a gps??

Maybe not.

But we put a man on the moon 45 years ago.

So why can't the most modern OS for portable devices be able to accept
simple serial USB data from an external GPS receiver?

Or let developers access to the USB ports.

Why handicap the thing for no good reason?

> > But why on earth aren't they making more use of tablets (at
> > least android tablets) as USB master devices so that you
> > can do a whole lot more stuff with them? There's a whole
> > universe of USB devices out there that would be really cool
> > to connect to a tablet.
>
> because the use cases for that don't make any sense, and all
> those usb devices would require drivers and that just
> complicates things.

That's a complete cop-out argument.

That's an Apple/IOS argument (a walled-garden, closed argument).

Let the marketplace decide what use-cases make sense, based on uptake
and availability.

Don't put a roadblock in the way of letting developers create and offer
things.

Let manufacturers create the products and the android drivers for them.
If there really is no use-case, then there will be no sales and hence no
market - and no skin off Google's back one way or the other.

> and who wants a hard drive or other peripheral hanging off a tablet
> or phone?

You don't see the incredible utility, performance and security in
plugging in a USB thumb drive into a tablet or phone and transfering
files in either direction?

> mobile devices interface wirelessly, over wifi, bluetooth or
> cellular, depending on what the task is.

That's nice. Now when that mobile device has a USB port, is it really
asking too much that said port is fully functional for any device I
might care to plug into it?

How about ATSC digital TV tuner?

Tell me that a popular use-case wouldn't be watching local OTA tv (for
FREE! No DATA usage!) if only these devices had them built in. But
they don't - so why not give them that ability via USB port? They exist
- for the PC. Why not a tablet?

> > I recently bought an Acer Iconia A3-A10 (not Tab A3) for $200. It
> > doesn't have GPS. The pdf manual for it can be found here:
> >
> > http://www.cellphones.ca/upload/manuals/acer-iconia-a3-manual.pdf
> >
> > It does not list GPS anywhere in the specifications section.
>
> the manual talks about a gps and the specs confirm it:
> <http://us.acer.com/ac/en/US/content/model-datasheet/NT.L2YAA.001>

That's bullshit (the link you gave).

From the PDF manual, here is the specs:

===============
Performance
� MTK MT8125 quad-core Cortex A7 1.2 GHz processor
� System memory:
� 1 GB DDR3L RAM on-board
� 16 or 32 GB of flash memory

Google Android� 4.2 (Jelly Bean) operating system

Display
� 10.1" display with IPS (In-Plane Switching) technology
� 1280 x 800 resolution

Multimedia
� Stereo speakers with Dolby� Digital Plus audio enhancement
� Built-in microphone

Supported formats:

Connectors
� Micro USB 2.0 Type B, supports OTG
� HDMI

Micro Connector with HDCP support

Type Formats
Audio recording AAC-LC, AMR-WB
Audio playback
AAC-LC, AAC, AAC+ (not raw AAC), AMR-NB, AMR-WB, MP3,
OGG Vorbis, WAV
Video recording H.264 BP, MPEG-4 SP, H.263 BP
Video playback H.264 BP, H.264 MP, H.264 HP, MPEG-4 SP, H.263 BP

Power
� DC power in (5.35 V, 2 A)

Connectivity
� Bluetooth� 4.0
� IEEE 802.11b/g/n Wi-Fi CERTIFIED�

Camera
� Front camera
� 640 x 480 resolution, 0.3-megapixel
� Fixed focus
� Rear camera
� 2592 x 1944 resolution, 5-megapixel
� 1080p Full HD audio/video recording

Expansion
� microSD card up to 32 GB (SDHC 2.0 compatible)

Battery
� 27 Wh 3540 mAh 3.7 V 2-cell Li-polymer battery pack, battery life: 11
hours

Note: Length of battery operation will depend on power consumption
which is based on system resource use. For example, constantly using
the backlight or using power-demanding applications will shorten battery
life between charges.

Dimensions
Height 260 mm
Width 175 mm
Thickness 10.15 mm
Weight 560 g

Environment

Temperature
Operating: 0 �C to 35 �C
Non-operating: -20 �C to 60 �C
Humidity (non-condensing)
Operating: 20% to 80%
Non-operating: 20% to 80%
===============

Do you see GPS there?

> why is seeing how many satellites important?

Because it proves you have real GPS receiver, and they're not trying to
bluff you by confusing wifi-based geo-location (that many also call
"GPS") with satellite-based GPS.

[Roger Mills]

On 09/08/2014 19:37, Some Guy wrote:

>
> If you think your tablet has a real GPS satellite receiver, then bring
> up an app that shows your current satellite reception.
>
>> My Google [Samsung] Nexus 10 certainly does, as does my wife's
>> Motorola Moto G android smartphone.
>
> Yes, I downloaded the manual for Nexus 10:
>
> http://images.comparecellular.com/phones/1788/nexus-10-manual.pdf
>
> And it lists GPS as one of the "sensors". So I assume you can bring up
> an app that shows how many satellites you're receiving at any given
> time.

You certainly can. I use an app called GPS Status which shows number of
satellites being read, current location (plus margin of error) and speed
and direction of travel - plus a lot of other stuff. And GPS location
can be used by location-based apps - mapping, navigation, local
services, etc.

[nospam]

In article <ls613s$f9f$1...@speranza.aioe.org>, Some Guy <"Some"@Guy>

wrote:

> > you really expect a tablet for $90 to include a gps??
>
> Maybe not.
>
> But we put a man on the moon 45 years ago.

what does that have to do with a gps in a $90 tablet?

landing on the moon cost a *lot* more than $90 and there wasn't gps
back then and certainly not on the moon. in fact, they used a sextant
between earth and the moon.

> So why can't the most modern OS for portable devices be able to accept
> simple serial USB data from an external GPS receiver?

because the use case makes no sense.

who wants to have a tablet with a dangling cable and a gps attached?
these are mobile devices.

however, it may be possible to use a bluetooth gps which is *much* more
convenient.

wireless is the future. not cables.

> Or let developers access to the USB ports.

they can.

> Why handicap the thing for no good reason?

it's not handicapped.

> > > But why on earth aren't they making more use of tablets (at
> > > least android tablets) as USB master devices so that you
> > > can do a whole lot more stuff with them? There's a whole
> > > universe of USB devices out there that would be really cool
> > > to connect to a tablet.
> >
> > because the use cases for that don't make any sense, and all
> > those usb devices would require drivers and that just
> > complicates things.
>
> That's a complete cop-out argument.
>
> That's an Apple/IOS argument (a walled-garden, closed argument).

it's not at all, and apple isn't as walled as some might think it is.

> Let the marketplace decide what use-cases make sense, based on uptake
> and availability.

they have.

people are buying tablets and phones with gps. they are not tethering
them. the market has decided.

> Don't put a roadblock in the way of letting developers create and offer
> things.

nobody put a roadblock in the way of anything.

there's no demand for having a usb gps hanging off a tablet or phone,
especially when the majority of tablets and phones already have a gps
built in.

> Let manufacturers create the products and the android drivers for them.
> If there really is no use-case, then there will be no sales and hence no
> market - and no skin off Google's back one way or the other.

providing that capability means other features won't get done, plus
there's a lot of security implications.

and who wants the complexity of installing drivers? it sucks on pcs.
why have that mess on a mobile device? it's time to move beyond that.

> > and who wants a hard drive or other peripheral hanging off a tablet
> > or phone?
>
> You don't see the incredible utility, performance and security in
> plugging in a USB thumb drive into a tablet or phone and transfering
> files in either direction?

no, because it's easier to sync it to the cloud or transfer it
wirelessly between devices. it can be encrypted while in transit.

> > mobile devices interface wirelessly, over wifi, bluetooth or
> > cellular, depending on what the task is.
>
> That's nice. Now when that mobile device has a USB port, is it really
> asking too much that said port is fully functional for any device I
> might care to plug into it?

yes.

> How about ATSC digital TV tuner?
>
> Tell me that a popular use-case wouldn't be watching local OTA tv (for
> FREE! No DATA usage!) if only these devices had them built in. But
> they don't - so why not give them that ability via USB port? They exist
> - for the PC. Why not a tablet?

there are tv tuners for ipads and android devices. here's a few:
<http://www.tevii.com/Products_t810_1.asp>
<https://www.elgato.com/en/eyetv/eyetv-micro>
<http://www.geniatech.com/tv-tuner-for-android-tablet.asp>

> > > I recently bought an Acer Iconia A3-A10 (not Tab A3) for $200. It
> > > doesn't have GPS. The pdf manual for it can be found here:
> > >
> > > http://www.cellphones.ca/upload/manuals/acer-iconia-a3-manual.pdf
> > >
> > > It does not list GPS anywhere in the specifications section.
> >
> > the manual talks about a gps and the specs confirm it:
> > <http://us.acer.com/ac/en/US/content/model-datasheet/NT.L2YAA.001>
>
> That's bullshit (the link you gave).

it's not bullshit.

from my link, partway down:

Network & Communication
GPS Yes

> From the PDF manual, here is the specs:
>
> ===============

...snip...

> ===============
>
> Do you see GPS there?

page 13, where it shows two different icons for
GPS is on
Receiving location data from GPS

that tells me that there is a gps.

download a navigation app and see what it tells you about gps hardware.
it should work.

if you have two tablets, one with and one without gps, you should see a
difference in what the app tells you.

> > why is seeing how many satellites important?
>
> Because it proves you have real GPS receiver, and they're not trying to
> bluff you by confusing wifi-based geo-location (that many also call
> "GPS") with satellite-based GPS.

the app can verify if gps hardware is there and inform the user
accordingly.

most have a 'good/bad gps reception' indicator of some sort, or 'no gps
available'. map apps might have a circle surrounding the location pin
to show the dilution of precision.

also, wifi geo-location can be *very* accurate and can be as useful as
a real gps, depending on what the user needs to do. it obviously won't
work for driving, but it could work for finding out the weather where
you are, or the nearest pizza shop.

[sloc...@invalid.com]

I don't believe that the usb port on a hand phone is the equal of a
usb port on a computer. For example, I tried a number of times to get
a hand phone to access a "usb memory stick" and the several I tried
wouldn't. On the other hand most Android phones now have both
blue-tooth and GPS built in.

I also tried to connect the hand phone to a computer so that I could
use the phone GPS and access the marine charts and navigation program
on the computer, but that didn't seem to work either :-(
--
Cheers,

John B.

[Poutnik]

Dne 10.8.2014 v 9:48 sloc...@invalid.com napsal(a):

> On Sat, 09 Aug 2014 09:16:12 -0400, Some Guy <"Some"@Guy . com> wrote:>
> I don't believe that the usb port on a hand phone is the equal of a
> usb port on a computer. For example, I tried a number of times to get
> a hand phone to access a "usb memory stick" and the several I tried
> wouldn't.

It relates to master - slave USB design asymmetry. Both phone and USB
sticks/drives act as slaves. If connected by normal kind of USB cables,
they are expecting the initiative from master, what never happens.

There as OTG (*) USB cables. In some sense both kind of cables are a
kind of USB analogue to direct versus crosswired Ethernet cables. (**)
Such connection with OTG cable often need rooted phone with installed
support for it .

>
> I also tried to connect the hand phone to a computer so that I could
> use the phone GPS and access the marine charts and navigation program
> on the computer, but that didn't seem to work either :-(

Again, there is needed support in the phone for such communication,
probably by some utility installed on rooted phone.
-----------------
(*) OTG = On the go.

(**) The former was used for regular PC to router connection,
while the latter was in past required for PC2PC connection.
Modern LAN card are said to be able to deal with both cables,
so crosswired cables is not needed anymore.

--
Poutnik

Wise man guards the words he says,
as they may say about him more,
than he says about the subject.

[- .. -- Tim .-.]

On 09/08/2014 14:16, Some Guy wrote:

[snip]

>
> A second question is - are there any android tablets with actual GPS
> receivers built into them?

Certainly my Nexus 7 has GPS built in. I would guess this is true for a
lot of other tablets and phones.

Tim.

[Roger Mills]

On 10/08/2014 09:13, Poutnik wrote:

>
> It relates to master - slave USB design asymmetry. Both phone and USB
> sticks/drives act as slaves. If connected by normal kind of USB cables,
> they are expecting the initiative from master, what never happens.
>

> There as OTG USB cables. In some sense both kind of cables are a

> kind of USB analogue to direct versus crosswired Ethernet cables.

> Such connection with OTG cable often need rooted phone with installed
> support for it .
>

> Again, there is needed support in the phone for such communication,
> probably by some utility installed on rooted phone.
> -----------------

In case it's of any interest, the following things work or not on my
non-rooted Nexus-10 tablet:

1. Using a straight USB cable to connect to a computer. The computer
sees the Nexus as an external storage device - enabling 'explorer' type
programs on the PC to move files to and fro. Android Synch also works,
for keeping my diary and contacts synchronised - but ISTR that I had to
enable USB debugging to make that work.

2. Using an OTG cable, and external USB mouse or keyboard work ok (but
not both at the same time). However, I also have a wireless
mini-keyboard with built-in touchpad - and that works fine with its
dongle plugged into the OTG cable.

3. Using a USB memory stick with the OTG cable works ok, but I had to
purchase Nexus Media Importer to make that work. Likewise a USB card
reader with an inserted SD card works, again using Nexus Media Importer.

4. Using a USB 3G internet dongle with the OTG cable *doesn't* work.
There is a suggestion that it *might* work if the tablet were rooted -
but I'd rather not go that that route. [I've solved that particular
problem by using a MiFi device which creates a WiFi hotspot which the
tablet can access when I need internet access away from home].

5. Using a USB OBD-II reader with the OTG cable to read performance data
and fault codes from my car in conjunction with the Torque app *doesn't*
work. [I've solved that particular problem by using a Bluetooth OBD-II
reader, which *does* pair ok with the tablet, and works fine].

6. Using a USB MIDI interface with the OTG cable works after a fashion,
but I've yet to find an App which will sequence MIDI files to an
external (musical) keyboard in the same way that programs such as
Cakewalk do on a PC.

I think that's all I've tried. I'm sure that others will have tried
various other USB devices with varying degrees of success.

As others have said, it would be nice if *any* plug-and-play USB device
would simply *work* - just as on a PC - but that's almost certainly too
much to expect.

[tumppiw]

>
> I recently bought an Acer Iconia A3-A10 (not Tab A3) for $200. It
> doesn't have GPS. The pdf manual for it can be found here:
>
> http://www.cellphones.ca/upload/manuals/acer-iconia-a3-manual.pdf
>
> It does not list GPS anywhere in the specifications section.
>

At least on Acer's UK site it lists it specs

http://www.acer.co.uk/ac/en/GB/content/model-datasheet/NT.L29EK.002

And that includes GPS



--
-----------------------------------------------------
Thomas Wendell
Helsinki, Finland
Translation to/from FI/SWE not always accurate
-----------------------------------------------------

[Chris Uppal]

- .. -- Tim .-. wrote:
> On 09/08/2014 14:16, Some Guy wrote:
> [snip]
> >
> > A second question is - are there any android tablets with actual GPS
> > receivers built into them?
>
> Certainly my Nexus 7 has GPS built in. I would guess this is true for a
> lot of other tablets and phones.

Nexus 7 (2012 & 1013), and Sony Z1 tablet all do. I'd be almost as surprised
to come across a tablet without GPS as I would one without touch.

But then those are middle/high-end devices. Maybe there are cheaper ones
without, but I don't know of any. The �99 Tesco Hudl
(http://www.tesco.com/direct/hudl/) does have GPS, for instance.

-- chris

[Chris Uppal]

Some Guy" <"Some wrote:

> > > But why on earth aren't they making more use of tablets (at
> > > least android tablets) as USB master devices so that you
> > > can do a whole lot more stuff with them? There's a whole
> > > universe of USB devices out there that would be really cool
> > > to connect to a tablet.
> >
> > because the use cases for that don't make any sense, and all
> > those usb devices would require drivers and that just
> > complicates things.
>
> That's a complete cop-out argument.
>
> That's an Apple/IOS argument (a walled-garden, closed argument).
>
> Let the marketplace decide what use-cases make sense, based on uptake
> and availability.
>
> Don't put a roadblock in the way of letting developers create and offer
> things.
>
> Let manufacturers create the products and the android drivers for them.
> If there really is no use-case, then there will be no sales and hence no
> market - and no skin off Google's back one way or the other.

Being able to install drivers would be nice, but I doubt if the developers of
your USB GPS kit would find it worthwhile to develop (and test) drivers for
Android since there are virtually no relevant Android devices without GPS built
in.

> > and who wants a hard drive or other peripheral hanging off a tablet
> > or phone?
>
> You don't see the incredible utility, performance and security in
> plugging in a USB thumb drive into a tablet or phone and transfering
> files in either direction?

On two of my devices, external USB drives work just fine. Not on the Nexus
kit, though. Presumably Sony include mass-storage drivers in their kernel
build (or amongst their loadable drivers), but Google don't. That's Google for
you.

> > mobile devices interface wirelessly, over wifi, bluetooth or
> > cellular, depending on what the task is.
>
> That's nice. Now when that mobile device has a USB port, is it really
> asking too much that said port is fully functional for any device I
> might care to plug into it?

Yes. Unless you plan on writing (or funding the development of) Android
drivers for all of those bits of kit.

But still, I agree that more flexibility would be good.

For instance I'd like to be able to use Leap Motion with Android. I'm pretty
sure that the Leap Motion people would love to support Android, and would
happily provide USB drivers, but as things stand the only way they could
support Android would be to add WiFi or Bluetooth to the Leap Motion hardware
:-(

But it really isn't as simple as just "installing drivers". There's no way
that Google would (or should) allow users to add random code to the kernel --
the security implications are terrifying. So they'd have to work out some way
of having user-space USB "drivers" that were (in some way) tied to their owning
apps. Could be that Linux already has that kind of stuff sorted, but if so I
haven't heard of it (not that I spend much time following Linux kernel stuff).

> Because it proves you have real GPS receiver, and they're not trying to
> bluff you by confusing wifi-based geo-location (that many also call
> "GPS") with satellite-based GPS.

Probably everybody here knows the difference between location using GPS and the
alternatives (though "soft" location by cell-tower is much commoner than the
really imprecise/unreliable location by IP). For a few reasons:
GPS has its own notification icon
Mapping/navigation apps don't work (properly) without it
GPS drains the battery

The last is probably the most important point ;-)

-- chris

[Some Guy]

Chris Uppal wrote:

> ... since there are virtually no relevant Android devices without
> GPS built in.

Is the crowd that reads this newsgroup really that much in the dark
about the existance of 4" to 10" android tablets that retail between $50
to $150 that are not sold under the brands Acer, Nexas, Samsung, etc?

My 7" Polaroid tablet that I bought 2 years ago for $90 does not have
bluetooth or gps.

It does have front and back camera, micro-SD card slot (which I bought a
32 gb card), mini-USB (which is usually connected to small keyboard but
sometimes is connected full-size thumb drive using short adapter cable).

The 8" and 10" version of my Polaroid tablet has HDMI output as well
(not the 7").

[Roger Mills]

On 10/08/2014 14:35, Chris Uppal wrote:

>
> On two of my devices, external USB drives work just fine. Not on the Nexus
> kit, though. Presumably Sony include mass-storage drivers in their kernel
> build (or amongst their loadable drivers), but Google don't. That's Google for
> you.
>

Nexus Media Importer will do what you want. It's not free, but it
doesn't cost much - �2.62 (about 4US$) in the UK.

[Chris Uppal]

Some Guy" <"Some wrote:

> > ... since there are virtually no relevant Android devices without
> > GPS built in.
>
> Is the crowd that reads this newsgroup really that much in the dark
> about the existance of 4" to 10" android tablets that retail between $50
> to $150 that are not sold under the brands Acer, Nexas, Samsung, etc?

I personally don't take much interest in phones/tablets except from "names"
(not necessarily "big names"). But that's just me -- I won't bother going over
my reasons 'cos I'm sure you've heard it all before.

Others on this group certainly do use "no-name" and
"not-likely-to-be-reviewed-on-Ars-Technica" devices. Also they use low-end
branded devices. (Though my impression is that -- like the rest of the
world -- they mostly have a phone, or maybe a phone + auxiliary tablet. Very
few seem to be primarily interested in tablets.)

But from none of them have I heard any mutterings about lack of GPS on their
devices (complaints about GPS power consumption, yes -- lots -- but nobody has
mentioned that it just 'aint there).

(Also note that I said "relevant devices" -- which includes phones -- not
"tablets")

Also, and FWIW, Google expect all (applicable) Android devices to have GPS.
This is the wording from the Android 2.3 Compatibility Definition. The wording
is identical in the 4.1 and 4.4 versions. (The ALL CAPS for "SHOULD" are
common in specifications from Internet-savvy operations and are taken to have a
somewhat specific meaning). :

7.3.3 GPS
Device implementations SHOULD include a GPS receiver. If a device
implementation
does include a GPS receiver, it SHOULD include some form of "assisted GPS"
technique to minimize [sic] GPS lock-on time.

So I stand by my statement that "there are virtually no relevant Android
devices without GPS built in" (which, of course, excludes TVs, watches, fitness
bands, Chromecast "things", etc). In fact I'll strengthen the point: I doubt
it any manufacturer of USB kit would -- even it were possible -- bother to
support GPS-less Android devices because (a) there are not many of them, and
(b) those that /do/ exist, aren't standard Android devices and -- as such --
would be impossible to support effectively.

> My 7" Polaroid tablet that I bought 2 years ago for $90 does not have
> bluetooth or gps.

Bah! That's so 2012...

Anyway, you've only just noticed that your current device does have GPS after
all, so why should anyone believe your claim that other devices lack it ?
(Only joking ;-)

-- chris

[Chris Uppal]

Roger Mills wrote:

> > On two of my devices, external USB drives work just fine. Not on the
> > Nexus kit, though. Presumably Sony include mass-storage drivers in
> > their kernel build (or amongst their loadable drivers), but Google
> > don't. That's Google for you.
> >
>
>
> Nexus Media Importer will do what you want. It's not free, but it
> doesn't cost much - �2.62 (about 4US$) in the UK.

Thanks, I'll look into that.

-- chris

[The Real Bev]

FWIW, my BLU Dash 4.5 phone is available new on ebay for $118. Aside
from the fact that it has only 4GB of internal memory -- a limit I've
learned to live with -- it does everything the big names do and I'm
assured that its OS will NEVER be updated to prohibit usage of the
external SD card. I paid $150 at Staples for it last October and had to
return it for a replacement due to camera malfunction, which meant that
it was out of my hands for a couple of weeks and I had to reinstall my
stuff from the backup, which was less than clean, but acceptable.

--
Cheers, Bev
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
"Giving money and power to government is like giving whiskey
and car keys to teenage boys." -- P.J. O'Rourke

[sloc...@invalid.com]

On Mon, 11 Aug 2014 14:05:49 -0700, The Real Bev
<bashl...@gmail.com> wrote:

>On 08/10/2014 08:00 AM, Some Guy wrote:
>
>> Chris Uppal wrote:
>>
>>> ... since there are virtually no relevant Android devices without
>>> GPS built in.
>>
>> Is the crowd that reads this newsgroup really that much in the dark
>> about the existance of 4" to 10" android tablets that retail between $50
>> to $150 that are not sold under the brands Acer, Nexas, Samsung, etc?
>>
>> My 7" Polaroid tablet that I bought 2 years ago for $90 does not have
>> bluetooth or gps.
>>
>> It does have front and back camera, micro-SD card slot (which I bought a
>> 32 gb card), mini-USB (which is usually connected to small keyboard but
>> sometimes is connected full-size thumb drive using short adapter cable).
>>
>> The 8" and 10" version of my Polaroid tablet has HDMI output as well
>> (not the 7").
>
>FWIW, my BLU Dash 4.5 phone is available new on ebay for $118. Aside
>from the fact that it has only 4GB of internal memory -- a limit I've
>learned to live with -- it does everything the big names do and I'm
>assured that its OS will NEVER be updated to prohibit usage of the
>external SD card. I paid $150 at Staples for it last October and had to
>return it for a replacement due to camera malfunction, which meant that
>it was out of my hands for a couple of weeks and I had to reinstall my
>stuff from the backup, which was less than clean, but acceptable.

You can probably get a similar phone here for around 75 U.S. dollars.
The next time I go to town I'll check for specific prices but the
Burmese guy who works for the people next door brought his "new"
Android phone over so I could "make it talk" and he said he bought it
2nd hand for US$ 60.

I've owned a couple of these low end phones and as a general statement
the quality control and component longevity seems to be less than with
name brand phones although the first phone I bought lasted for 2 years
and a low end tablet lasted until I dropped a window pane on the
screen, which I don't believe that the vaunted iPad would have
withstood :-)
--
Cheers,

John B.

[The Real Bev]

The transportation adds to the cost, though. I'm sorry to say but I
really don't have much desire to visit Asia. I like geological features
better than cities. Death Valley, Monument Valley, Craters of the Moon...

> The next time I go to town I'll check for specific prices but the
> Burmese guy who works for the people next door brought his "new"
> Android phone over so I could "make it talk" and he said he bought it
> 2nd hand for US$ 60.

I'm beginning to wonder if Chinese phones aren't like Chinese eyeglass
frames -- they're all the same, but if you put a brand name on them the
customer pays a lot more. A spectrum of quality, perhaps, but not as
wide as the spectrum of price.

I bought nice sunglasses with flexible hinges at the 99-Cents-Only
store. I've also bought cheesy sunglasses (and reading glasses) there
for the same price.

> I've owned a couple of these low end phones and as a general statement
> the quality control and component longevity seems to be less than with
> name brand phones although the first phone I bought lasted for 2 years
> and a low end tablet lasted until I dropped a window pane on the
> screen, which I don't believe that the vaunted iPad would have
> withstood :-)

Probably not. The standard comment is "That'll buff right out."

I think I've got this phone figured out now, and as long as I stay
within its limits and it doesn't break, I'm OK with it. Like all other
electronics, in a few years what's available will be better and cheaper.

--
Cheers, Bev
=======================================================================
"Windows Freedom Day: a holiday that moves each year, the date of which
is calculated by adding up the total amount of time a typical person
must spend restarting windows and then determining how many work weeks
that would correspond to." -- Trygve Lode

[Nigel Wade]

On 09/08/14 21:45, Some Guy wrote:
> nospam wrote:
>
>> you really expect a tablet for $90 to include a gps??
>
> Maybe not.
>
> But we put a man on the moon 45 years ago.
>
> So why can't the most modern OS for portable devices be able to accept
> simple serial USB data from an external GPS receiver?

How do you know that it can't?
Your particular device may not be able to, but that could well be a limitation of the device and not Android. I fully
expect that no one has deemed if financially viable to actually write an app. which could do this, but that doesn't mean
that Android is not capable of it.

>
> Or let developers access to the USB ports.

AFAIK it does.

>
> Why handicap the thing for no good reason?

That would be something you would have to ask Google. Their Android (Nexus) devices are some of the most handicapped
Android devices on the market, by design. It's probably part of the same philosophy which Apple use - the less you
include the less you have to make work right, the less it confuses simple users, and the less you have to support when
it goes wrong.

>
>>> But why on earth aren't they making more use of tablets (at
>>> least android tablets) as USB master devices so that you
>>> can do a whole lot more stuff with them? There's a whole
>>> universe of USB devices out there that would be really cool
>>> to connect to a tablet.
>>
>> because the use cases for that don't make any sense, and all
>> those usb devices would require drivers and that just
>> complicates things.
>
> That's a complete cop-out argument.
>
> That's an Apple/IOS argument (a walled-garden, closed argument).
>
> Let the marketplace decide what use-cases make sense, based on uptake
> and availability.
>
> Don't put a roadblock in the way of letting developers create and offer
> things.
>
> Let manufacturers create the products and the android drivers for them.
> If there really is no use-case, then there will be no sales and hence no
> market - and no skin off Google's back one way or the other.

Manufacturers are free to make those products. That the manufacturers have chosen not to create them probably tells you
that they don't see a viable market. Making them for the fun of it isn't what a good business would do. Just ask
Microsoft, that philosophy cost them around $1.7billion with the Windows Surface tablets when the market determined that
there was no use case.

>
>> and who wants a hard drive or other peripheral hanging off a tablet
>> or phone?
>
> You don't see the incredible utility, performance and security in
> plugging in a USB thumb drive into a tablet or phone and transfering
> files in either direction?

I do. And I can already do that with my Android devices. Although the most limited in this respect is the device
"manufactured" by Google itself. The USB port on an Android device can be quite functional, Android certainly allows it.
On my Asus Transformer tablet the keyboard/dock has a full size USB port which works pretty much as you'd expect. I have
a USB to Ethernet adaptor which allows it to plug directly into a network port. Just for fun last night I tried the same
with my Sony Xperia Z phone, using a USB OTG cable, and I got network capability with the WiFi disabled. So, the USB
port on an Android device is pretty much what the manufacturers of the device make it. I expect there are some
limitations, but I don't know what they are.

>
>> mobile devices interface wirelessly, over wifi, bluetooth or
>> cellular, depending on what the task is.
>
> That's nice. Now when that mobile device has a USB port, is it really
> asking too much that said port is fully functional for any device I
> might care to plug into it?

Any device? Probably.
However, what actual devices you can plug in and make work probably depends on how good a programmer you are, or how
much you are prepared to pay to a programmer who is good enough.

>
> How about ATSC digital TV tuner?
>
> Tell me that a popular use-case wouldn't be watching local OTA tv (for
> FREE! No DATA usage!) if only these devices had them built in. But
> they don't - so why not give them that ability via USB port? They exist
> - for the PC. Why not a tablet?
>

TV tuners do exist. I saw one on a shelf in a shop at the weekend. I didn't look closely at it, I think this was the one:
http://www.pctvsystems.com/Products/ProductsEuropeAsia/DVBTT2products/AndroiDTV/tabid/296/language/en-GB/Default.aspx

[Nigel Wade]

On 12/08/14 09:53, Nigel Wade wrote:
>> So why can't the most modern OS for portable devices be able to accept
>> simple serial USB data from an external GPS receiver?
>
> How do you know that it can't?
> Your particular device may not be able to, but that could well be a limitation of the device and not Android. I fully
> expect that no one has deemed if financially viable to actually write an app. which could do this, but that doesn't mean
> that Android is not capable of it.

Following up to my own post...

Maybe you won't have to do anything. GIYF. Try searching "android usb gps". From the initial hits it appears that work
on this began back in 2011/2012. I'm not reading any details, I'll let the OP do that since it's of interest to them and
not me.

However, to the OP, since this is such a niche area you may get better answers on the XDA developer forums rather than
on Usenet. There are lot of very clued-up Android developers on there, of the calibre to write custom Anroid ROMs. I
think CyanogenMod may have begun life over there, or at least was nurtured into what it is today by their contributions.

[J. P. Gilliver (John)]

In message <ls56pt$glj$1...@speranza.aioe.org>, Some Guy <So...@Guy.com>
writes:
[]

>A second question is - are there any android tablets with actual GPS
>receivers built into them?

[]
Most _new_ ones these days do, especially the smaller ones that are sold
as 'phones.
--
J. P. Gilliver. UMRA: 1960/<1985 MB++G()AL-IS-Ch++(p)Ar@T+H+Sh0!:`)DNAf

The main and the most glorious achievement of television is that it is killing
the art of conversation. If we think of the type of conversation television is
helping to kill, our gratitude must be undying. (George Mikes, "How to be
Inimitable" [1960].)

[J. P. Gilliver (John)]

In message <ls5pkh$td2$1...@speranza.aioe.org>, Some Guy <So...@Guy.com>
writes:
[]

>I have to see any tablet under $150 that has GPS.

My Doogee DG300 5�" tablet that I got for 54 pounds does. There were
some I could have got for under 50 pounds that did - including some 7",
IIRR.

>
>Don't confuse wifi-based geo-location with GPS. Many people do.

The marketing may vary: I haven't even seen that _claiming_ to be GPS
over here (UK).
[]

>If you think your tablet has a real GPS satellite receiver, then bring
>up an app that shows your current satellite reception.

[]
The presence of such an app. (provided it actually shows anything of
course!) does indeed show that you have GPS; however, the _absence_ of
such an app. doesn't prove that you _don't_.

[Roger Mills]

On 12/08/2014 22:31, J. P. Gilliver (John) wrote:
> In message <ls5pkh$td2$1...@speranza.aioe.org>, Some Guy <So...@Guy.com>
> writes:

>> If you think your tablet has a real GPS satellite receiver, then bring
>> up an app that shows your current satellite reception.
> []
> The presence of such an app. (provided it actually shows anything of
> course!) does indeed show that you have GPS; however, the _absence_ of
> such an app. doesn't prove that you _don't_.

I don't think that you can necessarily expect such an App to be factory
loaded - you're likely to have to download and install one yourself,
even if there *is* a real GPS.

I use GPS Status - free on Google Play - which works quite well.