Apple junk, "Professor realizes at end of 2-hour Zoom lecture that he was on mute"

[Anonymous Remailer (austria)]

The student explained that Wang was doing the entire lesson on
an iPad, “so you can expect many things to go wrong on such a
setup.”

https://nypost.com/2021/02/10/professor-in-singapore-on-mute-for-
entire-two-hour-lecture/

[mike]

On 13-02-2021 00:01 "Anonymous Remailer (austria)"

The NYPost is known for its yellow journalism clickbait.

Besides, the student meant that it wasn't a full fledged computer
(which has a lot more buttons and controls and notification areas).

But even on a full fledged computer things can go wrong with sound.
It's why people initially tap mics & ask "can you hear me in the back?"

[Alan Baker]

And a student must be an expert on systems...

...right?

[mail.zip2.in Anonymous Remailer]

In article <ae341f4117211d13...@remailer.privacy.at>

"Anonymous Remailer (austria)" <mixm...@remailer.privacy.at>
wrote:
>
>

All you hear during meetings from the apple retards is whining
about how slow zoom makes their ipads run and they have to
reboot afterwards.

[Anonymous Remailer]

I almost switched to an Apple computer from Windows once. Just
before switching, I had to use an Apple to get on the web at a
company I was visiting. It had the new Apple hockey puck mouse.
Upon seeing and using that piece of garbage, I never considered
getting an Apple again.

[Alan Browne]

This is more fun though:
https://www.reuters.com/article/us-texas-hearing-cat-filter-idUSKBN2A935Q





--
"...there are many humorous things in this world; among them the white
man's notion that he is less savage than the other savages."
-Samuel Clemens

[Alan Browne]

Sort of like saying, "Those fins on the Cadillac! Won't ever buy one!"

Not that it has anything to do with the posted article - user misfire.

I switched from Windows to Mac because I needed a new computer precisely
when Vista was rolling out. All of the issues caused by microsoft were
really going to cramp me.

Given that Apple are the sole computer maker that also make the OS, the
value prop in a Mac (or any other Apple product) is great. Very tight
machines.

The M1 (Apple Silicon, aka ARM based) Macs blow away anything on a
dollar for dollar comparison. I can't wait for the higher end ones to
come out.

The real joy of Apple centricity is cross device integration. I dictate
a note on my iPhone, it is available on both Macs (home and work), my
iPad (that I don't use much) and would be on my Watch too if I had one.
Messages, Reminders, Calendar, etc. and so on seamlessly integrated.
Hate Apple all you like. It is a struggle free environment generally.

Never even thought of going back. At work I run Win 10 under Fusion on
a Mac... it is a horrible, horrible mess of an OS. Really shambles. (I
need it for a legacy accounting system).

Linux is useless as a desktop environment. And I say that with irony as
I'll be developing an autonomous nav sensor system under Linux in the
coming weeks. Can't wait for the suckiness to begin... at least once
the project matures, the desktop won't be an issue.

[nospam]

In article <s08iam$6b7$1...@news.mixmin.net>, Anonymous Remailer

obvious troll.

any usb mouse will work.

if you didn't like the puck mouse (few did) then connect a different
one.

[Alan Browne]

No issue here ... on a pretty old iPad mini.

I guess you cherry pick your cases and then generalize?

[mike]

On 13-02-2021 10:39 Alan Browne <bitb...@blackhole.com> wrote:

> This is more fun though:
> https://www.reuters.com/article/us-texas-hearing-cat-filter-idUSKBN2A935Q

The poop is that was on an old Dell with specific Dell installed filters.
https://www.cnn.com/2021/02/10/tech/cat-lawyer-zoom-filter/index.html

[Joerg Lorenz]

Am 13.02.21 um 07:01 schrieb Anonymous Remailer (austria):

Dümmer gehts nimmer!

[mike]

On 13-02-2021 19:52 Alan Browne <bitb...@blackhole.com> wrote:

> Given that Apple are the sole computer maker that also make the OS, the
> value prop in a Mac (or any other Apple product) is great. Very tight
> machines.

Most people with eyeballs would notice the demographic Apple markets to.

That's not to say all Apple owners are fear filled clueless technophobes.
Just that Apple marketing works particularly well with that type of person.

They'll pay a lot more and even wait in line for what Apple tells them to.

However the point of the NY Post quote from that student I think was that a
tablet has fewer easily accessed controls than does a full fledged computer.

Any sensible lecturer does a mic check before launching a two hour lecture.

[Alan Browne]

Yeah, I saw something about that ...

Yesterday my web services suddenly chocked. I re-booted and other things.

Nothing.

Finally I did something I haven't done in ages: changed the DNS server
address to something 'reliable' (if not loved). 8.8.8.8

Worked. Seems my very reliable ISP where I've never, ever seen a DNS
lookup failure from their DNS servers, lost them. Indeed I don't even
know yet if they're back.

[Alan Browne]

On 2021-02-13 10:54, mike wrote:
> On 13-02-2021 19:52 Alan Browne <bitb...@blackhole.com> wrote:
>
>> Given that Apple are the sole computer maker that also make the OS,
>> the value prop in a Mac (or any other Apple product) is great.  Very
>> tight machines.
>
> Most people with eyeballs would notice the demographic Apple markets to.

Not really. In the US Apple are capturing a huge swath of people who
are not the demographic you believe they are.

>
> That's not to say all Apple owners are fear filled clueless technophobes.

Many s/w and electronics engineers I know (oodles) use iPhones and Macs,
the later at home if not at work.

Once upon a time I earned my living as a programmer on a range of
systems and OS' (and systems with no OS). And I build computers from
time to time. (Not saying much there - it's too easy these days).

And I repair my computers (incl. the iMac I'm writing this on).

I have 0 intention of leaving Macs - though I'll be in the dreaded Linux
verse for the next 6 weeks or so... (I'll try to develop on the iMac,
x-compile for Linux, but remains to be seen how well that will go.
There are good dev environments for Linux, so shouldn't be too bad.)

> Just that Apple marketing works particularly well with that type of person.

Just that Apple devices work very well for all sorts of people.

> They'll pay a lot more and even wait in line for what Apple tells them to.

They choose from the wide range of application appropriate products that
Apple have.

>
> However the point of the NY Post quote from that student I think was that a
> tablet has fewer easily accessed controls than does a full fledged
> computer.

As it should. It's an appliance. Zoom, in fact, are responsible for
making their app work correctly and at least warn the user if there is a
system setting that needs to be looked at.

>
> Any sensible lecturer does a mic check before launching a two hour lecture.

Indeed.

[Alan Browne]

Never attribute to stupidity to the user that which can be explained by
bad software or system integration.

[nospam]

In article <s08sob$mt4$1...@solani.org>, mike <th...@address.is.invalid>
wrote:

> Most people with eyeballs would notice the demographic Apple markets to.

most people with eyeballs would notice the weak attempt at trolling.

> That's not to say all Apple owners are fear filled clueless technophobes.
> Just that Apple marketing works particularly well with that type of person.

actually, it's the opposite.

clueless technophobes do little to no research and buy a windows pc
because they don't know anything about the alternatives available which
might better fit their needs.

> They'll pay a lot more

myth. prices are competitive for similar specs.

> and even wait in line for what Apple tells them to.

apple doesn't tell anyone to wait in line. people line up because a lot
of people want to buy their products.

people line up for all sorts of things or accept lengthy backorders if
it's bought online, and that includes windows users.

people lined up at midnight for windows 95:
<https://i.imgur.com/oc2EDhE.jpg>

and more recently, were lined up at the microsoft stores:
<https://www.geekwire.com/2013/check-line-microsofts-surface-pro-seattle
/>
The photo above, submitted by a GeekWire reader, shows the scene
at the Microsoft Store in Seattle零 University Village about an hour
ago, as people waited in the rain for the new Surface Pro tablet.
...
[Update. 1 p.m.: This was the estimate from a clerk at the store a
couple hours ago, but see the comment below from a reader in line
who says the wait is now actually at least 2 hours.]

<https://www.geekwire.com/2014/xbox-one-launches-long-lines-china-monume
ntal-day-microsoft-challenges-ahead/>
A long line forms for the Xbox One outside a Microsoft Store in
China. (Microsoft Photo)

people napping while in line for a microsoft store:
<https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Microsoft_Store_Bellevue_Lines_
%285197215627%29.jpg>
<https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Microsoft_Store_Bellevue_Lines_
%285197216591%29.jpg>

> However the point of the NY Post quote from that student I think was that a
> tablet has fewer easily accessed controls than does a full fledged computer.

that's a function of the specific app, not the device.

> Any sensible lecturer does a mic check before launching a two hour lecture.

most people are new to videoconferencing and make mistakes.

[Joerg Lorenz]

Am 13.02.21 um 17:15 schrieb Alan Browne:

> On 2021-02-13 10:53, Joerg Lorenz wrote:
>> Am 13.02.21 um 07:01 schrieb Anonymous Remailer (austria):
>>> The student explained that Wang was doing the entire lesson on
>>> an iPad, “so you can expect many things to go wrong on such a
>>> setup.”
>>>
>>> https://nypost.com/2021/02/10/professor-in-singapore-on-mute-for-
>>> entire-two-hour-lecture/
>>
>> Dümmer gehts nimmer!
>
> Never attribute to stupidity to the user that which can be explained by
> bad software or system integration.

I was referring to the OP using remailer and anonymous NNTP-servers.
But the nutty professor should use someone as feedback-loop to ensure,
that all engines are running ...

[mike]

On 13-02-2021 21:30 Alan Browne <bitb...@blackhole.com> wrote:

> Finally I did something I haven't done in ages: changed the DNS server
> address to something 'reliable' (if not loved). 8.8.8.8

Is it reasonable to change that every once in a while to break the chain
of information (since DNS servers know every web site you visit by name)?

AdGuardDNS 94.140.14.14 & 94.140.15.15
AlternateDNS 76.76.19.19 & 23.253.163.53
CleanBrowsing 185.228.168.9 & 185.228.169.9
Cloudflare 1.1.1.1 & 1.0.0.1
Comodo 8.26.56.26 & 8.20.247.20
Google 8.8.8.8 & to 8.8.4.4
Neustar 156.154.70.1 & 156.154.71.1
OpenDNS 208.67.222.222 & 208.67.220.220
OpenNIC 34.221.188.35 & 104.238.186.189
Quad9 9.9.9.9 & 149.112.112.112
UncensoredDNS 91.239.100.100 & 89.233.43.71
Verisign 64.6.64.6 & 64.6.65.6
Yandex 87.250.250.1 & 77.88.21.1

I'm not sure what advice there is for setting IPv6 DNS servers.
I've never set an IPv6 DNS server. Have you?

[Wolf K]

On 2021-02-13 10:41, Alan Browne wrote:
> On 2021-02-13 03:45, mail.zip2.in Anonymous Remailer wrote:
>> In article <ae341f4117211d13...@remailer.privacy.at>
>> "Anonymous Remailer (austria)" <mixm...@remailer.privacy.at>
>> wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>> The student explained that Wang was doing the entire lesson on
>>> an iPad, “so you can expect many things to go wrong on such a
>>> setup.”
>>>
>>> https://nypost.com/2021/02/10/professor-in-singapore-on-mute-for-
>>> entire-two-hour-lecture/
>>
>> All you hear during meetings from the apple retards is whining
>> about how slow zoom makes their ipads run and they have to
>> reboot afterwards.
>
> No issue here ... on a pretty old iPad mini.
>
> I guess you cherry pick your cases and then generalize?
>

Sorry, but the sloppy use of "generalise" triggers my nitpicking module.
You can stop reading here, or contemplate my comment.


A/R is making an absolute claim, not a general one. Absolutes claims
about the real world are always false, as implied by Alan B. Unqualified
generalisations are true if they apply to 50% + 1.


--
Wolf K <https://kirkwood40.blogspot.com>
The purpose of higher education is to learn how to tell if someone is
blowing smoke in yuour ears. (Anon)

[Alan Baker]

I make my living supporting the personal computers and technology of
people and small businesses.

I used to do a fair amount of work for Apple users, but that was a
decade ago.

Now, I still technically have Mac-using clients, but I almost never have
to do anything for them anymore.

[Alan Baker]

On 2021-02-13 7:54 a.m., mike wrote:
> On 13-02-2021 19:52 Alan Browne <bitb...@blackhole.com> wrote:
>
>> Given that Apple are the sole computer maker that also make the OS,
>> the value prop in a Mac (or any other Apple product) is great.  Very
>> tight machines.
>
> Most people with eyeballs would notice the demographic Apple markets to.
>
> That's not to say all Apple owners are fear filled clueless technophobes.
> Just that Apple marketing works particularly well with that type of person.

And yet, these supposed "clueless" users have far fewer problems...

[mail.zip2.in Anonymous Remailer]

In article <tWSVH.11869$354....@fx48.iad>

[mike]

On 13-02-2021 21:54 nospam <nos...@nospam.invalid> wrote:

> clueless technophobes do little to no research and buy a windows pc
> because they don't know anything about the alternatives available which
> might better fit their needs.

This was about a tablet. I didn't say anything about Windows.
The NY Post article talked Zoom on a tablet, not on Windows.

>> They'll pay a lot more
> myth. prices are competitive for similar specs.

You're blind if you're comparing the vast majority of mobile devices
which are budget devices and where there is no comparison on price.

>> and even wait in line for what Apple tells them to.
>
> apple doesn't tell anyone to wait in line. people line up because a lot
> of people want to buy their products.

Don't forget they're also waiting in line to trade in their old iPhones.

> people line up for all sorts of things or accept lengthy backorders if
> it's bought online, and that includes windows users.

If people wait in line for a commodity like a phone, they deserve the price.

>> Any sensible lecturer does a mic check before launching a two hour lecture.
>
> most people are new to videoconferencing and make mistakes.

I think we can agree the professor was clueless about using Zoom properly.
He likely would have been clueless no matter which brand of tablet he used.

[mike]

On 13-02-2021 21:41 Alan Browne <bitb...@blackhole.com> wrote:

> Not really. In the US Apple are capturing a huge swath of people who
> are not the demographic you believe they are.

Only Apple knows the demographic they aim for when they tout those colors.
But anyone with eyes can list the half dozen types of people Apple sells to.

Apple markets to people who are fearful technophobes afraid of software.
Apple markets to people who can't set up their tools to talk to each other.
Apple markets to people who wait in line like robots for the next style.
Apple markets to people who actually enjoy being walled up in their garden.
Apple markets to people who don't mind that Apple removes normal hardware.
Apple markets to people who are happy to accept whatever Apple gives them.

Apple isn't so successful because they don't know who their customers are.

But the main issue in the original article is not that the professor was
using an Apple tablet but that all tablets lack the controls of a computer.

>> Just that Apple marketing works particularly well with that type of person.
>
> Just that Apple devices work very well for all sorts of people.

Apple isn't so successful because they don't know who their customers are.
The people who buy Apple pay more to be walled up in that padlocked garden.

If that's you, that's fine with me, as long as you don't try to tell me that
you can do on an Apple device what you can do with most other devices
because you can't (if you don't know that then this conversation is toast).

>> However the point of the NY Post quote from that student I think was that a
>> tablet has fewer easily accessed controls than does a full fledged
>> computer.
>
> As it should. It's an appliance. Zoom, in fact, are responsible for
> making their app work correctly and at least warn the user if there is a
> system setting that needs to be looked at.

Since it's quite normal to run a mic check I suspect this professor "could"
have made the same mistake if he were on an Android tablet.

Taking into account he talked for two hours ignoring the students' requests,
this professor "might" have even made the mistake on a full fledged PC.

It wasn't Apple's fault.

[mike]

On 13-02-2021 22:13 Alan Baker <notony...@no.no.no.no> wrote:

> And yet, these supposed "clueless" users have far fewer problems...

Cite?

[Alan Baker]

Personal experience.

[Joel]

Alan Baker <notony...@no.no.no.no> wrote:
>On 2021-02-13 7:54 a.m., mike wrote:
>> On 13-02-2021 19:52 Alan Browne <bitb...@blackhole.com> wrote:
>>
>>> Given that Apple are the sole computer maker that also make the OS,
>>> the value prop in a Mac (or any other Apple product) is great.  Very
>>> tight machines.
>>
>> Most people with eyeballs would notice the demographic Apple markets to.
>>
>> That's not to say all Apple owners are fear filled clueless technophobes.
>> Just that Apple marketing works particularly well with that type of person.
>
>And yet, these supposed "clueless" users have far fewer problems...

I'm not a fan of Apple's software, but their hardware is pretty hard
to beat, in and of itself. If money were no object, and I could run
Windows 10 or Linux on one of the new Macs, I'd be interested. It
appears that in real life I'll stick with building Windows/Linux
devices myself, though.

--
Joel Crump

[mail.zip2.in Anonymous Remailer]

In article <%qSVH.9851$0y1....@fx06.iad>

[mail.zip2.in Anonymous Remailer]

In article <BdTVH.1161$eC2...@fx38.iad>

[Peter Köhlmann]

Am 13.02.21 um 17:43 schrieb Alan Baker:

> On 2021-02-13 7:54 a.m., mike wrote:
>> On 13-02-2021 19:52 Alan Browne <bitb...@blackhole.com> wrote:
>>
>>> Given that Apple are the sole computer maker that also make the OS,
>>> the value prop in a Mac (or any other Apple product) is great.  Very
>>> tight machines.
>>
>> Most people with eyeballs would notice the demographic Apple markets to.
>>
>> That's not to say all Apple owners are fear filled clueless technophobes.
>> Just that Apple marketing works particularly well with that type of
>> person.
>
> And yet, these supposed "clueless" users have far fewer problems...

No, that is wrong. I have an iMac and a MacBook. My wife has iMac, iPad
and iPhone. She is a "typical" computer user, it should just simply work.
She has for years used a windows machine, then that very same machine
converted to linux. She had actually far less problems using linux than
she had with windows. When she switched to the iMac, she had still the
very same problems she always had. MacOS is not a tiny little bit
"easier" to use than linux, and often much more cumbersome. I hate it
when MacOS "anticipates" which action is to be taken. It is the very
reason I rarely use the iMac. Apple by no means knows better than the
user. But they still build MacOS as if they did

[nospam]

In article <s08utm$oof$1...@solani.org>, mike <th...@address.is.invalid>

wrote:

> > Finally I did something I haven't done in ages: changed the DNS server
> > address to something 'reliable' (if not loved). 8.8.8.8
>
> Is it reasonable to change that every once in a while to break the chain
> of information (since DNS servers know every web site you visit by name)?

no, it is not.

[nospam]

In article <s09093$prb$1...@solani.org>, mike <th...@address.is.invalid>

wrote:

> > clueless technophobes do little to no research and buy a windows pc
> > because they don't know anything about the alternatives available which
> > might better fit their needs.
>
> This was about a tablet. I didn't say anything about Windows.
> The NY Post article talked Zoom on a tablet, not on Windows.

nope. it was about your comment about apple users.

here's what you snipped for full context:

In article <130220211124583547%nos...@nospam.invalid>, nospam

<nos...@nospam.invalid> wrote:

> In article <s08sob$mt4$1...@solani.org>, mike <th...@address.is.invalid>
> wrote:
> > That's not to say all Apple owners are fear filled clueless technophobes.
> > Just that Apple marketing works particularly well with that type of person.
>
> actually, it's the opposite.
>

> clueless technophobes do little to no research and buy a windows pc
> because they don't know anything about the alternatives available which
> might better fit their needs.

your claim that apple owners are 'fear filled clueless technophobes' is
not only false, but absurd.

> >> They'll pay a lot more
> > myth. prices are competitive for similar specs.
>
> You're blind if you're comparing the vast majority of mobile devices
> which are budget devices and where there is no comparison on price.

you're not comparing similar specs.

obviously, devices (and parts) with lesser specs will cost less. no
surprise there.

the samsung galaxy s21 is comparable to the iphone 12 in both features
and price. the s21 starts at $800 and the iphone 12 starts at $700.

> >> and even wait in line for what Apple tells them to.
> >
> > apple doesn't tell anyone to wait in line. people line up because a lot
> > of people want to buy their products.
>
> Don't forget they're also waiting in line to trade in their old iPhones.

some might be, but that's completely irrelevant.

> > people line up for all sorts of things or accept lengthy backorders if
> > it's bought online, and that includes windows users.
>
> If people wait in line for a commodity like a phone, they deserve the price.

if people wait in line for anything, then the price is too *low*.

classic supply and demand.

if the price was too high, not only would there be no lines, but there
would be few, if any sales. people will buy something *else*.

usually when that happens, the price is slashed to where it's
competitive.

you're also very mistaken that a phone is a commodity product. it very
definitely is not. there is a *huge* difference between a cheap $50
phone and a flagship phone that costs 10x-20x as much.

> >> Any sensible lecturer does a mic check before launching a two hour lecture.
> >
> > most people are new to videoconferencing and make mistakes.
>
> I think we can agree the professor was clueless about using Zoom properly.
> He likely would have been clueless no matter which brand of tablet he used.

perhaps so, which means he was not a 'clueless apple user'.

[nospam]

In article <s090mn$q9i$1...@solani.org>, mike <th...@address.is.invalid>

wrote:

>
> > And yet, these supposed "clueless" users have far fewer problems...
>
> Cite?

numerous studies.

one of the largest is ibm:

<https://www.computerworld.com/article/3452847/ibm-mac-users-are-happier-
and-more-productive.html>
Today, IBM has just seven people supporting 200,000 macOS devices
in contrast to the 20 needed to support the same number of Windows
devices, IBM said at JNUC.

This means it costs IBM 186% more to support Windows than it does
Macs.

also note that not only are macs less expensive, but employees who use
them are more productive.

[nospam]

In article <s090c2$psf$1...@solani.org>, mike <th...@address.is.invalid>

wrote:

>
> > Not really. In the US Apple are capturing a huge swath of people who
> > are not the demographic you believe they are.
>
> Only Apple knows the demographic they aim for when they tout those colors.
> But anyone with eyes can list the half dozen types of people Apple sells to.
>
> Apple markets to people who are fearful technophobes afraid of software.
> Apple markets to people who can't set up their tools to talk to each other.
> Apple markets to people who wait in line like robots for the next style.
> Apple markets to people who actually enjoy being walled up in their garden.
> Apple markets to people who don't mind that Apple removes normal hardware.
> Apple markets to people who are happy to accept whatever Apple gives them.

all demonstrably false.

>
> >> However the point of the NY Post quote from that student I think was that a
> >> tablet has fewer easily accessed controls than does a full fledged
> >> computer.
> >
> > As it should. It's an appliance. Zoom, in fact, are responsible for
> > making their app work correctly and at least warn the user if there is a
> > system setting that needs to be looked at.
>
> Since it's quite normal to run a mic check I suspect this professor "could"
> have made the same mistake if he were on an Android tablet.
>
> Taking into account he talked for two hours ignoring the students' requests,
> this professor "might" have even made the mistake on a full fledged PC.
>
> It wasn't Apple's fault.

yet you blamed apple anyway.

[Alan Baker]

You're right about one thing: macOS is not a "tiny little bit" easier to
use than Linux...

...it is a HUGE GREAT bit easier to use.

I have occasionally seen former Windows users stumble over the way the
Mac does things, but in my very long history of working on, selling, and
supporting both Macs and Windows PCs, I have had exactly ONE person
(yes: just one) who switched from Windows to macOS and then wanted to
switch back.

What are these "same problems" your wife had when she switched to an iMac?

What are these supposed cases where macOS "anticipates" an action?

[Alan Baker]

On 2021-02-13 8:56 a.m., mike wrote:
> On 13-02-2021 21:41 Alan Browne <bitb...@blackhole.com> wrote:
>
>> Not really.  In the US Apple are capturing a huge swath of people who
>> are not the demographic you believe they are.
>
> Only Apple knows the demographic they aim for when they tout those colors.
> But anyone with eyes can list the half dozen types of people Apple sells
> to.
>
> Apple markets to people who are fearful technophobes afraid of software.

Honda markets to people who are afraid of adjusting a carburetor.

> Apple markets to people who can't set up their tools to talk to each other.
> Apple markets to people who wait in line like robots for the next style.
> Apple markets to people who actually enjoy being walled up in their garden.
> Apple markets to people who don't mind that Apple removes normal hardware.
> Apple markets to people who are happy to accept whatever Apple gives them.

And do you ever wonder WHY they're happy?

>
> Apple isn't so successful because they don't know who their customers are.
>
> But the main issue in the original article is not that the professor was
> using an Apple tablet but that all tablets lack the controls of a computer.

No. The main issue was that the professor didn't check to make sure his
microphone was on.

>
>>> Just that Apple marketing works particularly well with that type of
>>> person.
>>
>> Just that Apple devices work very well for all sorts of people.
>
> Apple isn't so successful because they don't know who their customers are.
> The people who buy Apple pay more to be walled up in that padlocked garden.

What is this wall supposed to be? What can't I do?

>
> If that's you, that's fine with me, as long as you don't try to tell me
> that
> you can do on an Apple device what you can do with most other devices
> because you can't (if you don't know that then this conversation is toast).

What can't I do that normal people actually WANT to do?

[Alan Baker]

On 2021-02-13 8:55 a.m., mike wrote:
> On 13-02-2021 21:54 nospam <nos...@nospam.invalid> wrote:
>
>> clueless technophobes do little to no research and buy a windows pc
>> because they don't know anything about the alternatives available which
>> might better fit their needs.
>
> This was about a tablet. I didn't say anything about Windows.
> The NY Post article talked Zoom on a tablet, not on Windows.
>
>>> They'll pay a lot more
>> myth. prices are competitive for similar specs.
>
> You're blind if you're comparing the vast majority of mobile devices
> which are budget devices and where there is no comparison on price.

And Apple doesn't make budget devices. That's a choice.

But comparing Apple's offerings to budget computing devices is like
comparing a BMW to low-end economy car.

>
>>> and even wait in line for what Apple tells them to.
>>
>> apple doesn't tell anyone to wait in line. people line up because a lot
>> of people want to buy their products.
>
> Don't forget they're also waiting in line to trade in their old iPhones.

You get that a BUYING operation is implicit in a "trade in"... ...right?

>
>> people line up for all sorts of things or accept lengthy backorders if
>> it's bought online, and that includes windows users.
>
> If people wait in line for a commodity like a phone, they deserve the
> price.

That people wait in line to buy a product at a premium price tells you
how much they value it.

[Snit]

On Feb 13, 2021 at 10:04:53 AM MST, "Joel" wrote
<601g2g1arjurf5jns...@4ax.com>:

Not that I would suggest moving to it -- but folks have gotten the ARM version
of Windows to run on the new Macs. It was significantly faster than on MS's
ARM devices, but also not supported and I think there were issues with it.

--
Personal attacks from those who troll show their own insecurity. They cannot
use reason to show the message to be wrong so they try to feel somehow
superior by attacking the messenger.

They cling to their attacks and ignore the message time and time again.

[Snit]

On Feb 13, 2021 at 7:52:54 AM MST, "nospam" wrote
<130220210952542020%nos...@nospam.invalid>:

> In article <s08iam$6b7$1...@news.mixmin.net>, Anonymous Remailer

> <rema...@domain.invalid> wrote:
>
>> I almost switched to an Apple computer from Windows once. Just
>> before switching, I had to use an Apple to get on the web at a
>> company I was visiting. It had the new Apple hockey puck mouse.
>> Upon seeing and using that piece of garbage, I never considered
>> getting an Apple again.
>

> obvious troll.
>
> any usb mouse will work.
>
> if you didn't like the puck mouse (few did) then connect a different
> one.

I personally use a third party driver and an MX518. Fits MY tastes well,
though I doubt many would want an 8 button mouse.

[mike]

On 13-02-2021 23:46 Alan Baker <notony...@no.no.no.no> wrote:

> What can't I do that normal people actually WANT to do?

For one, normal people save data to a local SD Card using a file system app.

[Chris]

mike <th...@address.is.invalid> wrote:
> On 13-02-2021 19:52 Alan Browne <bitb...@blackhole.com> wrote:
>
>> Given that Apple are the sole computer maker that also make the OS, the
>> value prop in a Mac (or any other Apple product) is great. Very tight
>> machines.
>
> Most people with eyeballs would notice the demographic Apple markets to.
>
> That's not to say all Apple owners are fear filled clueless technophobes.
> Just that Apple marketing works particularly well with that type of person.
>

> They'll pay a lot more and even wait in line for what Apple tells them to.

>
> However the point of the NY Post quote from that student I think was that a
> tablet has fewer easily accessed controls than does a full fledged computer.
>

> Any sensible lecturer does a mic check before launching a two hour lecture.

You clearly don't understand the pressures that lecturers work under. Often
they don't have time to check everything, especially under current
circumstances.

[mike]

On 13-02-2021 23:48 Alan Baker <notony...@no.no.no.no> wrote:

> And Apple doesn't make budget devices. That's a choice.

Yes they do. Every iPhone is a budget device.
Apple just doesn't market it as a budget device.

You seem to love that you're paying a lot for almost nothing.
It makes you feel real good, doesn't it?

How much of that cost you seem to love to pay is pure Apple profit?
The rest is all you get by way of phone, which isn't much by all accounts.

It doesn't even have an SD Card nor, lately, a working analog jack.
Some don't even come with chargers anymore.
Or any way to listen to music.

You can barely set the default apps, even in the latest iOS release.
It's a budget device marketed otherwise with pretty colors & bezels.

> That people wait in line to buy a product at a premium price tells you
> how much they value it.

People waited in line to get taken for a ride with Bernie Madoff also.

But this thread isn't about people who love to pay a lot for pretty colors.

This thread is about a prof who used a tablet & forgot to enable the mic.
Which could have happened on any tablet from any manufacturer using any OS.

[mike]

On 13-02-2021 23:11 nospam <nos...@nospam.invalid> wrote:

>> It wasn't Apple's fault.
>
> yet you blamed apple anyway.

Are you also an idiot like that Alan Baker guy is?

Point to the statement you say I made that says I blamed Apple for the
professor forgetting to turn on his microphone on his tablet.

I said many times he would have done the same on any tablet.
Are you trolling us or just an idiot?

[mike]

On 13-02-2021 23:10 nospam <nos...@nospam.invalid> wrote:

> your claim that apple owners are 'fear filled clueless technophobes' is
> not only false, but absurd.

You are either trolling us or you are a clueless idiot who has never seen an
Apple advertisement and therefore you have no idea who Apple markets to.

Even so this thread was about a professor who was so technically incompetent
that he didn't even check his mic for two hours which likely would have
happened no matter what operating system his tablet was using.

[mike]

On 13-02-2021 22:34 Alan Baker <notony...@no.no.no.no> wrote:

>>> And yet, these supposed "clueless" users have far fewer problems...
>>
>> Cite?
>
> Personal experience.

Like I said.

[mike]

On 13-02-2021 21:30 Chris <ithi...@gmail.com> wrote:

> You clearly don't understand the pressures that lecturers work under. Often
> they don't have time to check everything, especially under current
> circumstances.

OK.
But would that pressure have been the same no matter what OS the tablet?

[Anonymous]

In article <w3VVH.9856$0y1....@fx06.iad>

[Alan Browne]

On 2021-02-13 11:56, mike wrote:
> On 13-02-2021 21:41 Alan Browne <bitb...@blackhole.com> wrote:
>
>> Not really.  In the US Apple are capturing a huge swath of people who
>> are not the demographic you believe they are.
>
> Only Apple knows the demographic they aim for when they tout those colors.
> But anyone with eyes can list the half dozen types of people Apple sells
> to.
>
> Apple markets to people who are fearful technophobes afraid of software.

Funny how you snip out what I posted about technical professionals who
prefer Apple products... why is that? Does it erode your false beliefs?

> Apple markets to people who can't set up their tools to talk to each other.

Actually you can get into a nice mess if you're not careful. Why some
people have to go to Apple or others to get config. help.

> Apple markets to people who wait in line like robots for the next style.

I've seen no such thing. Yes, there are the 'fans' ... so what?

> Apple markets to people who actually enjoy being walled up in their garden.

What garden is that?

> Apple markets to people who don't mind that Apple removes normal hardware.

Such as?

> Apple markets to people who are happy to accept whatever Apple gives them.

Ridiculous preconceptions there...

>
> Apple isn't so successful because they don't know who their customers are.

They're successful because their products not only work well, they are
supremely well integrated within and across.

I fear you've been adopting a justification list for not liking Apple
products.

>
> But the main issue in the original article is not that the professor was
> using an Apple tablet but that all tablets lack the controls of a computer.

They're appliances - they are - by design - limited functionality
computers for the sake of portability and minimized interfaces. This
can be the same for any tablet.

>
>>> Just that Apple marketing works particularly well with that type of
>>> person.
>>
>> Just that Apple devices work very well for all sorts of people.
>
> Apple isn't so successful because they don't know who their customers are.

Repeat the mantra. It must soothe...

> The people who buy Apple pay more to be walled up in that padlocked garden.

Repeat the mantra. It must soothe...

>
> If that's you, that's fine with me, as long as you don't try to tell me
> that
> you can do on an Apple device what you can do with most other devices
> because you can't (if you don't know that then this conversation is toast).

Such as?

Please entertain,.

[Alan Browne]

Horsecrap. This has been the key Android fan boi lament from the
beginning, yet it was horsecrap then and it is horsecrap now.

I've never needed an SD card for my portable appliance. I just sync'd
in iTunes and now just transfer files as needed from computer to iPhone
to wherever. I use my iPhone as a USB key ironically enough - wireless
version...

[Alan Baker]

Sorry, but taking less than ONE MINUTE to start with 'Please use the
Zoom "raise your hand" feature if you can't hear me.' is a far better
idea than wasting a two-hour lecture.

[Alan Baker]

I do that on a Mac all the time.

What makes it critical for users of smartphones.

You realize that not all smartphones from companies other than Apple
have SD card slots, right?

[mike]

On 13-02-2021 23:41 Alan Browne <bitb...@blackhole.com> wrote:

> Funny how you snip out what I posted about technical professionals who
> prefer Apple products... why is that? Does it erode your false beliefs?

Tablets?

>> Apple markets to people who actually enjoy being walled up in their garden.
>
> What garden is that?

If anyone has to explain to you what the walled garden is, then you don't
know the first thing about the design of Apple products.

>> Apple markets to people who don't mind that Apple removes normal hardware.
>
> Such as?

Analog jack for one.

>> Apple markets to people who are happy to accept whatever Apple gives them.
>
> Ridiculous preconceptions there...

Were you happy that until recently the defaults couldn't even be set?
Even now, they're still a joke.

>>
>> Apple isn't so successful because they don't know who their customers are.
>
> They're successful because their products not only work well, they are
> supremely well integrated within and across.

Like I said.

Apple markets to people who can't set up their tools to talk to each other.

> I fear you've been adopting a justification list for not liking Apple
> products.

The premise of this thread was originally that the clueless professor was
clueless because he owned an iPad but the reality is he was just clueless.

>> But the main issue in the original article is not that the professor was
>> using an Apple tablet but that all tablets lack the controls of a computer.
>
> They're appliances - they are - by design - limited functionality
> computers for the sake of portability and minimized interfaces. This
> can be the same for any tablet.

Like I said, this professor would have been clueless no matter the OS.

>> If that's you, that's fine with me, as long as you don't try to tell me
>> that
>> you can do on an Apple device what you can do with most other devices
>> because you can't (if you don't know that then this conversation is toast).
>
> Such as?
> Please entertain,.

If you're that clueless about iOS' lack of utilities, you don't know the
first thing about the differences between what iOS & Android apps can do.

Anyway, this thread was started on the premise that the professor was a
clueless iPad owner when in most liklihood he was just clueless overall.

His mistake had nothing to do with what OS was on the tablet he was using.

[Alan Browne]

On 2021-02-13 11:31, mike wrote:

> On 13-02-2021 21:30 Alan Browne <bitb...@blackhole.com> wrote:
>
>> Finally I did something I haven't done in ages: changed the DNS server
>> address to something 'reliable' (if not loved). 8.8.8.8
>
> Is it reasonable to change that every once in a while to break the chain
> of information (since DNS servers know every web site you visit by name)?

Not sure what value it is to a DNS server to serve up addresses to an IP
address that it knows nothing else about.

There are many indeed. Life is too short. I did set up various public
DNS's in the past. Turned out to be less reliable than my own ISP's
DNS. I checked - it's back up.

>
> I'm not sure what advice there is for setting IPv6 DNS servers.
> I've never set an IPv6 DNS server. Have you?

No. No need to. My ISP offers such, however.

[Alan Baker]

On 2021-02-13 1:42 p.m., mike wrote:
> On 13-02-2021 23:48 Alan Baker <notony...@no.no.no.no> wrote:
>
>> And Apple doesn't make budget devices. That's a choice.
>
> Yes they do. Every iPhone is a budget device.
> Apple just doesn't market it as a budget device.

Nope.

>
> You seem to love that you're paying a lot for almost nothing.
> It makes you feel real good, doesn't it?

It makes you feel good to believe it makes me feel good.

I buy what works well form me.

>
> How much of that cost you seem to love to pay is pure Apple profit?
> The rest is all you get by way of phone, which isn't much by all accounts.
>
> It doesn't even have an SD Card nor, lately, a working analog jack.
> Some don't even come with chargers anymore. Or any way to listen to music.

Lots of modern smartphones have neither an SD card slot or an analog jack.

>
> You can barely set the default apps, even in the latest iOS release.
> It's a budget device marketed otherwise with pretty colors & bezels.
>
>> That people wait in line to buy a product at a premium price tells you
>> how much they value it.
>
> People waited in line to get taken for a ride with Bernie Madoff also.
>
> But this thread isn't about people who love to pay a lot for pretty colors.

And yet you chose to rant on about it.

[Alan Baker]

Sorry, but I make my living providing computer users technical support.

I started off exclusively doing tech support on Macs back before Mac OS
X was even in the works.

Today, I still have some Mac clients, but on average, I'd say I see them
on the order of once ever 18 months.

It's the Windows users who need constant support and who make me lots of
money.

Simple question for you:

How do you migrate from your old PC to a new PC?

On the Mac, it's a standard and seamless part of the process of setting
up the new machine. The transfer may take a little time depending on the
connection method, but the process is essentially perfect.

[Alan Baker]

On 2021-02-13 2:52 p.m., mike wrote:
> On 13-02-2021 23:41 Alan Browne <bitb...@blackhole.com> wrote:
>
>> Funny how you snip out what I posted about technical professionals who
>> prefer Apple products... why is that?  Does it erode your false beliefs?
>
> Tablets?
>
>>> Apple markets to people who actually enjoy being walled up in their
>>> garden.
>>
>> What garden is that?
>
> If anyone has to explain to you what the walled garden is, then you don't
> know the first thing about the design of Apple products.
>
>>> Apple markets to people who don't mind that Apple removes normal
>>> hardware.
>>
>> Such as?
>
> Analog jack for one.

And other manufacturers are removing it as well?

[mike]

On 14-02-2021 04:14 Alan Browne <bitb...@blackhole.com> wrote:

> I've never needed an SD card for my portable appliance. I just sync'd
> in iTunes and now just transfer files as needed from computer to iPhone
> to wherever.

Why do you need an entire personal computer just to backup & install an app?

It's clear you're clueless about what iOS can't do just as that professor
was clueless that he should have turned on his mic before broadcasting.

How do you re-install a free app that is a few versions back that you loved
if it's on your iPhone now but you want to put it on all your iPhones &
iPads (maybe even on your friend's and family's iPhones & iPads too)?

It's not in the Apple App Store & you don't have a full backup in iTunes.
While you're spinning your wheels on iOS, on Android it's already done.

That's just one example.

Anyway this thread isn't about how dysfunctional iOS is as the professor
would have been dysfunctional no matter what OS was on his broadcast tablet.

[Alan Baker]

On 2021-02-13 3:05 p.m., mike wrote:
> On 14-02-2021 04:14 Alan Browne <bitb...@blackhole.com> wrote:
>
>> I've never needed an SD card for my portable appliance.  I just sync'd
>> in iTunes and now just transfer files as needed from computer to
>> iPhone to wherever.
>
> Why do you need an entire personal computer just to backup & install an
> app?

Is that what you need your SD card for? iOS devices do that without one
just fine.

>
> It's clear you're clueless about what iOS can't do just as that professor
> was clueless that he should have turned on his mic before broadcasting.

Says the guy who presented as task for an SD car that is completely
irrelevant on an iOS device.

>
> How do you re-install a free app that is a few versions back that you loved
> if it's on your iPhone now but you want to put it on all your iPhones &
> iPads (maybe even on your friend's and family's iPhones & iPads too)?

Edge case, sunshine. Almost no one wants the old version of an appl.

>
> It's not in the Apple App Store & you don't have a full backup in iTunes.
> While you're spinning your wheels on iOS, on Android it's already done.
>
> That's just one example.

Just one WRONG example:

'After some amount of time, the App Store will display a notification
saying that no, you can't have this app because it doesn't work with the
version of iOS that your device has. However, it will also offer to let
you download a previous version.

This is a really smart feature from Apple because it offers you this
compatible version but it also makes sure that you're getting the newest
that you can. If an app has been updated five times a year, you'd
struggle to know which was the very latest you could use but Apple knows
and Apple tells you.

Simply tap the Download button and soon that app will be on your older
device.'

<https://appleinsider.com/articles/19/03/10/how-to-download-prior-versions-of-apps-onto-an-older-iphone-or-ipad-that-cant-run-ios-12>

I have done this very thing (albeit on a Mac) with GarageBand.

I've not yet updated to Big Sur, so I was asked if I wanted to download
the version of GarageBand that would work on my Mac running Catalina.

[mike]

On 14-02-2021 04:42 Alan Baker <notony...@no.no.no.no> wrote:

> I have done this very thing (albeit on a Mac) with GarageBand.

If you think you need a full fledged computer to do what a phone should do
then you don't have a clue of the paucity of iOS utilities compared to Android.

[Alan Baker]

On 2021-02-13 3:49 p.m., mike wrote:
> On 14-02-2021 04:42 Alan Baker <notony...@no.no.no.no> wrote:
>
>> I have done this very thing (albeit on a Mac) with GarageBand.
>
> If you think you need a full fledged computer to do what a phone should
> do then you don't have a clue of the paucity of iOS utilities compared
> to Android.

I didn't say you needed a full computer to do it...

...and that's why you clipped everything else I said, isn't it?

[nospam]

In article <s09h4a$7j9$1...@solani.org>, mike <th...@address.is.invalid>

wrote:

>
> > And Apple doesn't make budget devices. That's a choice.
>
> Yes they do. Every iPhone is a budget device.

that's a bizarre and an utterly absurd claim.

> Apple just doesn't market it as a budget device.

because it isn't a budget device.

if you think it is, you must have far more money than you know what to
do with.

> You seem to love that you're paying a lot for almost nothing.
> It makes you feel real good, doesn't it?

iphones are among the best selling smartphones worldwide, so quite a
lot of people think they're getting a good value and happy with their
purchase.

> How much of that cost you seem to love to pay is pure Apple profit?
> The rest is all you get by way of phone, which isn't much by all accounts.

you are clearly unfamiliar with what an iphone can do.

> It doesn't even have an SD Card nor, lately, a working analog jack.

many android phones do not have an sd card slot, including the new
samsung galaxy s21, google pixel oneplus models and many others.

many android phones (not necessarily the same ones as without sd card
slots) have a far more capable digital headphone jack instead of the
old and unreliable analog headphone jack. most people use either the
internal speakers or wireless headphones.

> Some don't even come with chargers anymore.

because just about everyone already has a charger, likely several of
them. i have more than a dozen of them. i don't need nor want more.

the samsung galaxy s21, which is *not* a cheap phone, does not include
a charger.

for the rare person who has never had a single usb-powered device in
the past 20 or so years and somehow does not have any usb power
adapter, they can charge it via a computer (or other device with usb).

if for some reason that is not an option, they can spend a whopping $10
for a power adapter.

it's another non-issue.

> Or any way to listen to music.

what the hell are you smoking??

there are *many* ways to listen to music on an iphone, whether it's
music stored on the device or streamed from services such as spotify,
either via the included music app or numerous third party apps.

it even can play videos! crazy, but true!

> You can barely set the default apps, even in the latest iOS release.

several of them can be set. it's also easy to directly link to any app.

> It's a budget device marketed otherwise with pretty colors & bezels.

you must have a substantial amount of money to think that an iphone,
which ranges from $400 to $1400 depending on model, is a budget device.

does that also apply to the similarly priced samsung galaxy s21 or
google pixel 5?

> This thread is about a prof who used a tablet & forgot to enable the mic.
> Which could have happened on any tablet from any manufacturer using any OS.

in other words, not an apple flaw.

[nospam]

In article <s09hp8$80s$1...@solani.org>, mike <th...@address.is.invalid>

wrote:

>
> >>> And yet, these supposed "clueless" users have far fewer problems...
> >>
> >> Cite?
> >
> > Personal experience.
>
> Like I said.
> Apple markets to people who can't set up their tools to talk to each other.

there is no need to set up any tools since the capability is included.

[nospam]

In article <s09gbb$6sk$1...@solani.org>, mike <th...@address.is.invalid>

wrote:

>
> > What can't I do that normal people actually WANT to do?
>
> For one, normal people save data to a local SD Card using a file system app.

many android phones do not have sd card slots, including from samsung,
google, oneplus and many others.

by your metric, those companies are just as restrictive as apple, yet
you give them a free pass.

of the android phones that do have an sd slot, most people either don't
use it or they use adoptable storage rather than swap sd cards.

keep in mind that sd cards are slower than internal memory, so it's
smart to get a phone with more internal storage than rely on cards.
it's also a lot less hassle.

managing sd cards is a pain. it's a *lot* easier, faster and more
reliable to copy files both to and from a local computer, another
mobile device (tablet or phone) and/or the cloud.

[nospam]

In article <s09l79$abd$1...@solani.org>, mike <th...@address.is.invalid>
wrote:

> >> Apple markets to people who actually enjoy being walled up in their garden.
> >
> > What garden is that?
>
> If anyone has to explain to you what the walled garden is, then you don't
> know the first thing about the design of Apple products.

myth.

there are no walls except for the ones the users build themselves.

> >> Apple markets to people who don't mind that Apple removes normal hardware.
> >
> > Such as?
>
> Analog jack for one.

there is no need for an obsolete analog jack anymore since digital
jacks have replaced them with more capabilities.

wireless is also an option, one that is *far* more convenient.

>
> Like I said.
> Apple markets to people who can't set up their tools to talk to each other.

there's nothing to set up.

> >> If that's you, that's fine with me, as long as you don't try to tell me
> >> that
> >> you can do on an Apple device what you can do with most other devices
> >> because you can't (if you don't know that then this conversation is toast).
> >
> > Such as?
> > Please entertain,.
>
> If you're that clueless about iOS' lack of utilities,

what lack of utilities might that be?

> you don't know the
> first thing about the differences between what iOS & Android apps can do.

given your ridiculous statements, such as being unable to play music on
an iphone, its clear that you have *no* idea what ios can do.

> Anyway, this thread was started on the premise that the professor was a
> clueless iPad owner when in most liklihood he was just clueless overall.
>
> His mistake had nothing to do with what OS was on the tablet he was using.

yet you went on an apple-bashing tirade.

[nospam]

In article <s09luu$ap2$1...@solani.org>, mike <th...@address.is.invalid>

wrote:

>
> > I've never needed an SD card for my portable appliance. I just sync'd
> > in iTunes and now just transfer files as needed from computer to iPhone
> > to wherever.
>
> Why do you need an entire personal computer just to backup & install an app?

you don't. there's this thing called the cloud.

however, most people already have a computer so it's a non-issue.

> It's clear you're clueless about what iOS can't do just as that professor
> was clueless that he should have turned on his mic before broadcasting.

what's clear is that you're *very* clueless about what ios can do.

> How do you re-install a free app that is a few versions back that you loved
> if it's on your iPhone now but you want to put it on all your iPhones &
> iPads (maybe even on your friend's and family's iPhones & iPads too)?

make a backup copy of every version (or specific ones) and then sync
the preferred version. it's very easy. in fact, i did exactly that a
couple of weeks ago.

but even that may not be needed. many apps will offer an older
compatible version if the latest version won't work. sometimes this is
not possible because the app connects to a server and changes to the
server require a later version.

> It's not in the Apple App Store & you don't have a full backup in iTunes.
> While you're spinning your wheels on iOS, on Android it's already done.

how do you reinstall an android app thats no longer in the play store
and do not have a backup of it?

you do realize that copying an app to an sd card *is* a backup, right?
not a very good one, but a backup nonetheless.

> That's just one example.

a not very good one.

> Anyway this thread isn't about how dysfunctional iOS is as the professor
> would have been dysfunctional no matter what OS was on his broadcast tablet.

instead, it's about your lack of understanding about apple, ios and
your dysfunctional workflow.

[nospam]

In article <s09hjv$7uk$1...@solani.org>, mike <th...@address.is.invalid>

wrote:

>
> > your claim that apple owners are 'fear filled clueless technophobes' is
> > not only false, but absurd.
>
> You are either trolling us or you are a clueless idiot who has never seen an
> Apple advertisement and therefore you have no idea who Apple markets to.

apple markets to a lot of people.

you have *no* idea who actually buys and uses apple products or what
they can do.

your claim that all of apple's customers are 'fear filled clueless
technophobes' is absurd.

it's amazing how 'fear filled clueless technophobes' who work for nasa
managed to land a spacecraft on another planet.

<https://cdn.osxdaily.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/08/nasa-MSL-team-mac-u
sers.jpg>
<https://cdn.osxdaily.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/08/macbook-pro-at-nasa-
mars-curiosity.jpg>

it's also amazing how a 'fear filled clueless technophobe' mit graduate
student became famous for developing a breakthrough algorithm to take a
photo of a blackhole. she uses a mac, as do others in her group
(although to be fair, macs were not the only systems they used):
<https://math.mit.edu/wim/2019/04/12/that-image-of-a-black-hole-you-saw-
everywhere-thank-katie-bouman-for-making-it-possible/>

bigger version of the photo, where it's clear that she and her group
are using macbooks:
<https://d3i6fh83elv35t.cloudfront.net/static/2019/04/57096998_102133218
22497968_5057670792469282816_o.jpg>

she's so clueless that she's now a professor at caltech. they only hire
clueless people.
<https://cms.caltech.edu/people/klbouman>

it's amazing what clueless people can do. imagine what would happen if
they were actually smart and used a different computer.

speaking of mit, macs are the preferred computer for students in nearly
all majors.

> Even so this thread was about a professor who was so technically incompetent
> that he didn't even check his mic for two hours which likely would have
> happened no matter what operating system his tablet was using.

[nospam]

In article <s09oii$ca3$1...@solani.org>, mike <th...@address.is.invalid>

wrote:

>
> > I have done this very thing (albeit on a Mac) with GarageBand.
>
> If you think you need a full fledged computer to do what a phone should do
> then you don't have a clue of the paucity of iOS utilities compared to
> Android.

you snipped whatever it is he did, however, garage band is available on
ios, as are many other audio apps.

> Anyway this thread isn't about how dysfunctional iOS is as the professor
> would have been dysfunctional no matter what OS was on his broadcast tablet.

it's now about how dysfunctional and clueless you are.

[Alan Browne]

On 2021-02-13 17:52, mike wrote:
> On 13-02-2021 23:41 Alan Browne <bitb...@blackhole.com> wrote:
>
>> Funny how you snip out what I posted about technical professionals who
>> prefer Apple products... why is that?  Does it erode your false beliefs?
>
> Tablets?
>
>>> Apple markets to people who actually enjoy being walled up in their
>>> garden.
>>
>> What garden is that?
>
> If anyone has to explain to you what the walled garden is, then you don't
> know the first thing about the design of Apple products.

Sniff. Oh oh. I smell the smell of someone realizing he's dug himself
into a hole he doesn't want to be in.

Pro tip: stop digging.

>
>>> Apple markets to people who don't mind that Apple removes normal
>>> hardware.
>>
>> Such as?
>
> Analog jack for one.

ROFL. They removed technology from the 1800's.

Moving on...

>
>>> Apple markets to people who are happy to accept whatever Apple gives
>>> them.
>>
>> Ridiculous preconceptions there...
>
> Were you happy that until recently the defaults couldn't even be set?
> Even now, they're still a joke.

Eh? What are you on about?

>
>>>
>>> Apple isn't so successful because they don't know who their customers
>>> are.
>>
>> They're successful because their products not only work well, they are
>> supremely well integrated within and across.
>
> Like I said.
> Apple markets to people who can't set up their tools to talk to each other.

Repeat your mantra. It's not going anywhere out of your 'church'.

>
>> I fear you've been adopting a justification list for not liking Apple
>> products.
>
> The premise of this thread was originally that the clueless professor was
> clueless because he owned an iPad but the reality is he was just clueless.

Lots of people are clueless at any level of tech. Or simply make errors.

>
>>> But the main issue in the original article is not that the professor was
>>> using an Apple tablet but that all tablets lack the controls of a
>>> computer.
>>
>> They're appliances - they are - by design - limited functionality
>> computers for the sake of portability and minimized interfaces.  This
>> can be the same for any tablet.
>
> Like I said, this professor would have been clueless no matter the OS.

And people make mistakes. To be sure, as stipulated, a "mic" check
would have been smarter.

>
>>> If that's you, that's fine with me, as long as you don't try to tell
>>> me that
>>> you can do on an Apple device what you can do with most other devices
>>> because you can't (if you don't know that then this conversation is
>>> toast).
>>
>> Such as?
>> Please entertain,.
>
> If you're that clueless about iOS' lack of utilities, you don't know the
> first thing about the differences between what iOS & Android apps can do.

Yep, that's the first reply of the challenged.

Pro tip (repeat version): digging yourself into a hole. Stop digging.

[mike]

On 14-02-2021 05:22 nospam <nos...@nospam.invalid> wrote:

>> Apple markets to people who can't set up their tools to talk to each other.
>
> there is no need to set up any tools since the capability is included.

You people don't seem to know the first thing about how Apple locks you
inside their walled garden by not letting you use defaults of your choice.

One example is iOS doesn't let you choose your own default messaging app.

But this thread isn't about the lack of ability to choose your own default
tools in iOS as this professor would have been clueless no matter the tool.

[Alan Browne]

On 2021-02-13 18:05, mike wrote:
> On 14-02-2021 04:14 Alan Browne <bitb...@blackhole.com> wrote:
>
>> I've never needed an SD card for my portable appliance.  I just sync'd
>> in iTunes and now just transfer files as needed from computer to
>> iPhone to wherever.
>
> Why do you need an entire personal computer just to backup & install an
> app?

Convenience. Since my home PC (a Mac) is setup for automatic backups,
backing up appliances to it (iphone) means everything is centralized. I
rotate out my backup disks monthly (ish), so disaster recovery is pretty
much guaranteed with minimal loss.

I could also use iCloud more for things on my phone that are important,
but I don't see that as a backup per se.

>
> It's clear you're clueless about what iOS can't do just as that professor
> was clueless that he should have turned on his mic before broadcasting.

No. But it is clear you're absolutely clueless where Apple products are
concerned.

>
> How do you re-install a free app that is a few versions back that you loved
> if it's on your iPhone now but you want to put it on all your iPhones &
> iPads (maybe even on your friend's and family's iPhones & iPads too)?

I don't and I don't care because my iPhone is an appliance (and a mighty
powerful one at that). What's important on it is mainly photos. Apps
are not important in themselves.

But such arguments are the thin gruel of Android fans (as is the non
issue of SD cards...).

>
> It's not in the Apple App Store & you don't have a full backup in iTunes.
> While you're spinning your wheels on iOS, on Android it's already done.
>
> That's just one example.

Totally meaningless, and if it's the best you got, stop digging.

[Alan Baker]

On 2021-02-13 4:05 p.m., mike wrote:
> On 14-02-2021 05:22 nospam <nos...@nospam.invalid> wrote:
>
>>> Apple markets to people who can't set up their tools to talk to each
>>> other.
>>
>> there is no need to set up any tools since the capability is included.
>
> You people don't seem to know the first thing about how Apple locks you
> inside their walled garden by not letting you use defaults of your choice.
>
> One example is iOS doesn't let you choose your own default messaging app.

And why is that important, Mike?

Messages come in to whichever app sent them these days.

>
> But this thread isn't about the lack of ability to choose your own default
> tools in iOS as this professor would have been clueless no matter the tool.

And yet you still go on...

[nospam]

In article <s09pfp$css$1...@solani.org>, mike <th...@address.is.invalid>

wrote:

>
> >> Apple markets to people who can't set up their tools to talk to each other.
> >
> > there is no need to set up any tools since the capability is included.
>
> You people don't seem to know the first thing about how Apple locks you
> inside their walled garden by not letting you use defaults of your choice.

again, the only walls are the ones users build themselves.

just because you don't know how to do something does not mean there is
a wall preventing it from being done.

[nospam]

In article <wSZVH.15130$7_6....@fx40.iad>, Alan Browne

<bitb...@blackhole.com> wrote:

> > It's clear you're clueless about what iOS can't do just as that professor
> > was clueless that he should have turned on his mic before broadcasting.
>
> No. But it is clear you're absolutely clueless where Apple products are
> concerned.

i suspect that might not be limited to just apple products.

[mike]

On 14-02-2021 05:22 nospam <nos...@nospam.invalid> wrote:

> there are no walls except for the ones the users build themselves.

Not one of you Apple fanbois knows even the first thing about iOS.
For example, how do you set the default messaging app to Signal?

> wireless is also an option, one that is *far* more convenient.

Says you people and nobody else.
What is amazing is how clueless you people are about iOS' walled garden.

You Apple fanbois don't know the first thing about iOS.

>> If you're that clueless about iOS' lack of utilities,
>
> what lack of utilities might that be?

You people are proving how clueless you are about the limitations of iOS.
What you claim shows you have no idea of anything about which you speak.

For one example, try to choose an app launcher outside the walled garden.

> given your ridiculous statements, such as being unable to play music on
> an iphone, its clear that you have *no* idea what ios can do.

I meant with the earbuds that are not supplied that you well know I meant.

It's amazing that you people know absolutely nothing about Apple products.
I have to be the one to tell you what they no longer ship with iPhones.

> yet you went on an apple-bashing tirade.

Not one of my statements is false while almost all of yours were.
Do you people know anything whatsoever about the walled garden or not?

Anyway, this thread isn't about how clueless you Apple fanbois are about
iOS' limitations, it's about the clueless professor on his iPad Zoom app.

[mike]

On 14-02-2021 05:38 Alan Browne <bitb...@blackhole.com> wrote:

> What's important on it is mainly photos. Apps
> are not important in themselves.

No wonder you people are clueless on what everyone else knows iOS can't do.

Because alls you care about are photos?

We're done as you Apple fanbois don't even know the first thing about iOS.

[mike]

On 14-02-2021 05:22 nospam <nos...@nospam.invalid> wrote:

> make a backup copy of every version (or specific ones) and then sync
> the preferred version. it's very easy. in fact, i did exactly that a
> couple of weeks ago.

You people actually don't know that on iOS you can't extract an already
installed free app (any version) & reuse it on almost any other device.

It doesn't even matter that you can't do anything about backup without using
a completely separate computer as you can't do it with or without that PC.

I'm done with your charade as you have never even heard of the infamous
walled garden nor do you have any clue what iOS can't do for app extraction
& reuse that Android even does automatically.

You Apple fanbois clearly don't even know the very first thing of iOS.

[Alan Baker]

On 2021-02-13 5:42 p.m., mike wrote:
> On 14-02-2021 05:22 nospam <nos...@nospam.invalid> wrote:
>
>> make a backup copy of every version (or specific ones) and then sync
>> the preferred version. it's very easy. in fact, i did exactly that a
>> couple of weeks ago.
>
> You people actually don't know that on iOS you can't extract an already
> installed free app (any version) & reuse it on almost any other device.
>

Actually, as I explained to you, the App Store on the older device will
offer up the older version of the app if the newer one is incompatible
with the version of iOS on your older device.

> It doesn't even matter that you can't do anything about backup without
> using
> a completely separate computer as you can't do it with or without that PC.
>
> I'm done with your charade as you have never even heard of the infamous
> walled garden nor do you have any clue what iOS can't do for app extraction
> & reuse that Android even does automatically.
>
> You Apple fanbois clearly don't even know the very first thing of iOS.

You are precisely like those who bemoan that you can't work on your own
cars...

...when most people just want their cars to work without having to do
any work on them.

[Alan Baker]

On 2021-02-13 5:38 p.m., mike wrote:
> On 14-02-2021 05:22 nospam <nos...@nospam.invalid> wrote:
>
>> there are no walls except for the ones the users build themselves.
>
> Not one of you Apple fanbois knows even the first thing about iOS.
> For example, how do you set the default messaging app to Signal?

Why would you need to?

Can you install Signal? Yes.

Is it any harder to launch Signal because it's not the default messaging
app?

In fact, can you tell me precisely what you get for declaring a
messaging app to be the default?

>
>> wireless is also an option, one that is *far* more convenient.
>
> Says you people and nobody else.

And the people who buy all the other smartphones that have now
discontinued the analog audio jack.

> What is amazing is how clueless you people are about iOS' walled garden.

What isn't amazing is how you snip context.

>
> You Apple fanbois don't know the first thing about iOS.
>
>>> If you're that clueless about iOS' lack of utilities,
>>
>> what lack of utilities might that be?
>
> You people are proving how clueless you are about the limitations of iOS.
> What you claim shows you have no idea of anything about which you speak.

> For one example, try to choose an app launcher outside the walled garden.

That's it? You want an app launcher?

That is your BEST example of a utility that iOS lacks?

[Alan Baker]

On 2021-02-13 5:39 p.m., mike wrote:
> On 14-02-2021 05:38 Alan Browne <bitb...@blackhole.com> wrote:
>
>>  What's important on it is mainly photos.  Apps are not important in
>> themselves.
>
> No wonder you people are clueless on what everyone else knows iOS can't do.
> Because alls you care about are photos?

I can re-download any apps I use from the App Store.

I backup my entire device to iCloud.

I transfer information between my devices wirelessly.

[Savageduck]

On Feb 13, 2021, mike wrote
(in article <s09uvs$fm5$1...@solani.org>):

Are you by any chance Arlen Holder’s long lost step child?

--
Regards,
Savageduck

[Alan Baker]

Well played, sir! [doffs cap]

[nospam]

In article <s09v6n$fsa$1...@solani.org>, mike <th...@address.is.invalid>

wrote:

>
> > make a backup copy of every version (or specific ones) and then sync
> > the preferred version. it's very easy. in fact, i did exactly that a
> > couple of weeks ago.
>
> You people actually don't know that on iOS you can't extract an already
> installed free app (any version) & reuse it on almost any other device.

more accurately, *you* don't know how, therefore you assume it cannot
be done by anyone.

those who actually use ios devices (i.e., not you) not only can do
that, but actually *do* that.

> It doesn't even matter that you can't do anything about backup without using
> a completely separate computer as you can't do it with or without that PC.

false. ios backups can be to another computer, to the cloud or to both.

even better, it can be done without *any* additional software on the
phone. it can also be configured to occur whenever the phone is plugged
into a charger (not the computer), thereby guaranteeing that it will be
done without the user needing to do anything.

local backups are faster, while cloud backups are more convenient. the
user can choose which one (or both) fits their needs. backups can be
encrypted if desired, which allows for saving some login credentials
(depending on how an app stores them) and some other sensitive data. it
would be bad if private user data could be compromised simply by
obtaining an unencrypted backup.

also note that ios backups are of the entire device, making restoring
to a new device very easy and convenient.

even better, device-to-device doesn't even need a backup. it can go
direct.

meanwhile, backups on android are nowhere near as easy and many of the
backup apps require root to do a full backup. migration is also a major
hassle.

tl;dr you're wrong, again.

> I'm done with your charade as you have never even heard of the infamous
> walled garden nor do you have any clue what iOS can't do for app extraction
> & reuse that Android even does automatically.

i have multiple versions of apps going back more than ten years and can
install any version of any of them at any time.

the fact that *you* are unable to do it (and worse, not interested in
learning how) is a wall *you* built.

tl;dr you're wrong, again.

> You Apple fanbois clearly don't even know the very first thing of iOS.

the only person who doesn't know the very first thing about ios is you,
someone who clearly has not used an ios device.

[nospam]

In article <s09uto$fkr$1...@solani.org>, mike <th...@address.is.invalid>

wrote:

>
> > there are no walls except for the ones the users build themselves.
>
> Not one of you Apple fanbois knows even the first thing about iOS.
> For example, how do you set the default messaging app to Signal?

there's no need to do that since tapping the notification will launch
signal.

have you even used an iphone?

> > wireless is also an option, one that is *far* more convenient.
>
> Says you people and nobody else.

says the industry.

bluetooth headphone sales have been outpacing wired headphones for
several years.

<https://www.npd.com/wps/portal/npd/us/news/press-releases/2016/bluetoot
h-capable-headphone-sales-surpass-non-bluetooth-sales/>
While the headphone category saw a 7 percent year-over-year increase
in dollar sales for the first half of 2016, Bluetooth headphones saw
double-digit growth with a 42 percent year-over-year increase in
dollar sales for the first half of the year.

the trend is clear:
<https://www.digitalmusicnews.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/09/wireless_v_
wired_revenues.jpg>

also keep in mind that iphone sales have continued to increase to their
highest ever this past quarter, despite not having an analog headphone
jack. clearly, nobody cares that it's not there.

put simply: the analog headphone jack was removed and sales went up.

> What is amazing is how clueless you people are about iOS' walled garden.
>
> You Apple fanbois don't know the first thing about iOS.

what's amazing is how little *you* know, and that your only response is
calling people fanbois.

> >> If you're that clueless about iOS' lack of utilities,
> >
> > what lack of utilities might that be?
>
> You people are proving how clueless you are about the limitations of iOS.
> What you claim shows you have no idea of anything about which you speak.
>
> For one example, try to choose an app launcher outside the walled garden.

an app launcher is not a utility.

once again, what lack of utilities might that be?

i noticed you used the plural, so there must be a bunch.

>
> > given your ridiculous statements, such as being unable to play music on
> > an iphone, its clear that you have *no* idea what ios can do.
>
> I meant with the earbuds that are not supplied that you well know I meant.

prior to the iphone 12, earbuds were included.

most people have numerous sets of earbuds, many of which have never
been used because they already had ones that worked fine. there's not
much of a reason to include something that won't be used. it's a waste.

another reason that earbuds are no longer included is that most people
do not use them. instead, they listen to music on the built in speakers
(good enough most of the time), bluetooth headphones (very popular and
convenient) or on larger speakers that are part of a home entertainment
system. see above for industry trends.

> It's amazing that you people know absolutely nothing about Apple products.
> I have to be the one to tell you what they no longer ship with iPhones.

it's amazing that you don't know that android phones have also started
to not include earbuds:

<https://www.theverge.com/2019/10/15/20915777/google-pixel-4-buds-earbud
s-headphones-3-5mm-adapter-usb-c-wireless>
Google零 latest phone, the Google Pixel 4, doesn靖 include a pair of
earphones in the box, nor does it come with one of the company零
USB-C to 3.5mm adapters. With its own true wireless Pixel Buds not
due for release until next year, Google just offered every other
headphone manufacturer a nice opportunity to capitalize on any
new Pixel 4 owners who might not already own wireless headphones.

note that the pixel 4 was released more than a year ago, well before
apple decided to not include earbuds.

here's another fun fact for you. way back in 2008, more than 12 years
ago, the first android phone, the t-mobile g1, did not have an analog
headphone jack, as did some other htc phones.

it had a non-standard ext-usb port and shipped without an adapter until
a few months later, after people loudly complained.

<https://www.engadget.com/2008-09-23-confirmed-t-mobile-g1-has-no-3-5mm-
headphone-jack.html>
Hey, that's pretty awesome that Amazon's thrown together an MP3
store app for the G1, isn't it? What would be even cooler still,
though, is if you could actually listen to those tracks without a
crazy dongle hanging off your phone. Like many recent HTCs (Touch
HD notably excepted), the G1 eschews a standard 3.5mm headphone
jack for its proprietary ExtUSB connector, meaning you'll need custom
headphones or an adapter to plug in your own. What's worse, the
adapter won't be available immediately at launch, just a bundled
headset. Why, HTC? Why?

it looks like your knowledge of android isn't much better than ios.

[Joerg Lorenz]

Am 13.02.21 um 17:56 schrieb mike:
> On 13-02-2021 21:41 Alan Browne <bitb...@blackhole.com> wrote:
>
>> Not really. In the US Apple are capturing a huge swath of people who
>> are not the demographic you believe they are.
>
> Only Apple knows the demographic they aim for when they tout those colors.
> But anyone with eyes can list the half dozen types of people Apple sells to.
>
> Apple markets to people who are fearful technophobes afraid of software.

> Apple markets to people who can't set up their tools to talk to each other.

> Apple markets to people who wait in line like robots for the next style.

> Apple markets to people who actually enjoy being walled up in their garden.

> Apple markets to people who don't mind that Apple removes normal hardware.

> Apple markets to people who are happy to accept whatever Apple gives them.
>

> Apple isn't so successful because they don't know who their customers are.

You are a X-posting Troll.
You do not understand anything about Apple devices as you demonstrate
here an now.

mike <th...@address.is.invalid>
You are braindead and and you do not qualify for a serious discussion.
Welcome in the killfile.

[Joerg Lorenz]

Am 13.02.21 um 18:41 schrieb nospam:
> In article <s090c2$psf$1...@solani.org>, mike <th...@address.is.invalid>

> wrote:
>
>>
>>> Not really. In the US Apple are capturing a huge swath of people who
>>> are not the demographic you believe they are.
>>
>> Only Apple knows the demographic they aim for when they tout those colors.
>> But anyone with eyes can list the half dozen types of people Apple sells to.
>>
>> Apple markets to people who are fearful technophobes afraid of software.
>> Apple markets to people who can't set up their tools to talk to each other.
>> Apple markets to people who wait in line like robots for the next style.
>> Apple markets to people who actually enjoy being walled up in their garden.
>> Apple markets to people who don't mind that Apple removes normal hardware.
>> Apple markets to people who are happy to accept whatever Apple gives them.
>

> all demonstrably false.

Sure. He is a name-faking Troll.

[Joerg Lorenz]

Am 13.02.21 um 22:29 schrieb mike:

> On 13-02-2021 23:46 Alan Baker <notony...@no.no.no.no> wrote:
>
>> What can't I do that normal people actually WANT to do?
>
> For one, normal people save data to a local SD Card using a file system app.

That is a concept from the last century.

[Joerg Lorenz]

Am 14.02.21 um 00:05 schrieb mike:

> On 14-02-2021 04:14 Alan Browne <bitb...@blackhole.com> wrote:
>
>> I've never needed an SD card for my portable appliance. I just sync'd
>> in iTunes and now just transfer files as needed from computer to iPhone
>> to wherever.
>
> Why do you need an entire personal computer just to backup & install an app?

You understood absolutely nothing. You have no clue how iOS and iCloud
work together. In the first place there is no need for a *PC*.

[Joerg Lorenz]

Am 14.02.21 um 02:58 schrieb Alan Baker:

+1
and on the go btw.
Nothing like slow and failure-prone SD-cards and such crap from the last
century. We live in a world of 4G- and 5G networks with Gbit/s-performance.

[Joerg Lorenz]

Am 14.02.21 um 00:52 schrieb nospam:
> many android phones do not have sd card slots, including from samsung,
> google, oneplus and many others.

Google smartphones never had card slots.

[Peter Köhlmann]

Am 14.02.21 um 10:13 schrieb Joerg Lorenz:

And it is completely idiotic to rely on the capability to be online.
Without ANY other means. You idiots think that the fact that iOS devices
have NO other means to export/import data than being online is actually
"good". It is the worst feature of those devices

[Peter Köhlmann]

Am 14.02.21 um 10:15 schrieb Joerg Lorenz:

Actually, people can chose if they get a android device with or without
SD card slot.
Apple customers do not have that choice

[Chris]

mike <th...@address.is.invalid> wrote:
> On 13-02-2021 21:30 Chris <ithi...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> You clearly don't understand the pressures that lecturers work under. Often
>> they don't have time to check everything, especially under current
>> circumstances.
>
> OK.
> But would that pressure have been the same no matter what OS the tablet?

Yep. This is just a silly mistake that seems have gone viral. Not sure why
it's morphed into Apple bashing.

Just like that lawyer using a cat zoom filter in a court session. He's not
being criticised for being a windows idiot, is he?

[Chris]

Alan Baker <notony...@no.no.no.no> wrote:

> On 2021-02-13 1:30 p.m., Chris wrote:
>> mike <th...@address.is.invalid> wrote:

>>> On 13-02-2021 19:52 Alan Browne <bitb...@blackhole.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Given that Apple are the sole computer maker that also make the OS, the
>>>> value prop in a Mac (or any other Apple product) is great. Very tight
>>>> machines.
>>>
>>> Most people with eyeballs would notice the demographic Apple markets to.
>>>
>>> That's not to say all Apple owners are fear filled clueless technophobes.
>>> Just that Apple marketing works particularly well with that type of person.
>>>
>>> They'll pay a lot more and even wait in line for what Apple tells them to.
>>>
>>> However the point of the NY Post quote from that student I think was that a
>>> tablet has fewer easily accessed controls than does a full fledged computer.
>>>
>>> Any sensible lecturer does a mic check before launching a two hour lecture.

>>
>> You clearly don't understand the pressures that lecturers work under. Often
>> they don't have time to check everything, especially under current
>> circumstances.
>>
>

> Sorry, but taking less than ONE MINUTE to start with 'Please use the
> Zoom "raise your hand" feature if you can't hear me.' is a far better
> idea than wasting a two-hour lecture.

You'd be surprised how genuinely thrown by the technology many intelligent
are. For you and I it's obvious but for them it's all gobbledygook.

[nospam]

In article <s0arkl$vv7$1...@dont-email.me>, Peter Köhlmann

<peter-k...@t-online.de> wrote:

> And it is completely idiotic to rely on the capability to be online.
> Without ANY other means. You idiots think that the fact that iOS devices
> have NO other means to export/import data than being online is actually
> "good". It is the worst feature of those devices

importing/exporting data with an ios device does not require being
online.

[Alan Browne]

On 2021-02-13 20:39, mike wrote:
> On 14-02-2021 05:38 Alan Browne <bitb...@blackhole.com> wrote:
>
>>  What's important on it is mainly photos.  Apps are not important in
>> themselves.
>
> No wonder you people are clueless on what everyone else knows iOS can't do.
> Because alls you care about are photos?

Get the knots out of your panties. It's an appliance. It's not all
that important to me except that it's useful in a dozen ways when I'm
out and about. Heck, it even has a phone in it.

>
> We're done as you Apple fanbois don't even know the first thing about iOS.

I guess you don't understand that it's an appliance, not a key computer
in my life. It does get backed up on occasion. The only thing I fear
losing are photos - so it gets backed up or the important phots are
transferred quickly. The rest can easily be recovered from other
sources (ie: music (backed up), apps (download them), etc. and so on).

I think you need a reality check. You're looking for ways to attack
something that isn't very assailable.

[Alan Browne]

On 2021-02-14 04:47, Peter Köhlmann wrote:
> Am 14.02.21 um 10:13 schrieb Joerg Lorenz:
>> Am 14.02.21 um 02:58 schrieb Alan Baker:
>>> On 2021-02-13 5:39 p.m., mike wrote:
>>>> On 14-02-2021 05:38 Alan Browne <bitb...@blackhole.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>   What's important on it is mainly photos.  Apps are not important in
>>>>> themselves.
>>>>
>>>> No wonder you people are clueless on what everyone else knows iOS
>>>> can't do.
>>>> Because alls you care about are photos?
>>>
>>> I can re-download any apps I use from the App Store.
>>>
>>> I backup my entire device to iCloud.
>>>
>>> I transfer information between my devices wirelessly.
>>>
>> +1
>> and on the go btw.
>> Nothing like slow and failure-prone SD-cards and such crap from the last
>> century. We live in a world of 4G- and 5G networks with
>> Gbit/s-performance.
>>
>
> And it is completely idiotic to rely on the capability to be online.

Eh? I wirelessly move data from my iPhone to my Macs (or v-v) w/o
needing to be 'online'. Indeed I sometimes move very large data sets
from the office to my home computer using my iPhone (5 GB file sets
within a DMG).

[mike]

On 14-02-2021 10:46 Chris <ithi...@gmail.com> wrote:

> Yep. This is just a silly mistake that seems have gone viral. Not sure why
> it's morphed into Apple bashing.

Yes. It was just a silly mistake anyone could have made in a hectic day.
But I don't think the topic morphed so much as it started as Apple bashing.

I was the first one to say (repeatedly) it has nothing to do with Apple.
It only turned into what it turned into because Apple fanbois are involved.

> Just like that lawyer using a cat zoom filter in a court session. He's not
> being criticised for being a windows idiot, is he?

It would never happen on a Windows discussion because they're different.

The difference is that the Apple fanbois can't stand the truth about Apple.
Windows doesn't really have fanbois as they readily accept truth about MS.

Apple fanbois can't and never did and never will accept any Apple truth.

[Alan Browne]

On 2021-02-13 20:42, mike wrote:
> On 14-02-2021 05:22 nospam <nos...@nospam.invalid> wrote:
>
>> make a backup copy of every version (or specific ones) and then sync
>> the preferred version. it's very easy. in fact, i did exactly that a
>> couple of weeks ago.
>
> You people actually don't know that on iOS you can't extract an already
> installed free app (any version) & reuse it on almost any other device.

Don't need to. I can DL apps from the App Store at any time from
anywhere. And if it's an app I paid for (because, yes, I do that too),
my AppleID proves I've paid for the app and it's DL'd.

>
> It doesn't even matter that you can't do anything about backup without
> using
> a completely separate computer as you can't do it with or without that PC.

So what? It's an appliance. Little more. Other than photos that I
take, everything is recoverable from the web or my home computer. I
don't need and certainly don't want to also maintain SD cards...

> I'm done with your charade as you have never even heard of the infamous
> walled garden nor do you have any clue what iOS can't do for app extraction
> & reuse that Android even does automatically.

iOS is not a 'walled garden' as the term is usually used. Apple do
force all apps to go via the App Store as a precaution against malware
(why there is so little on iOS devices and when it does on occasion
manifest, they can instantly shut down distribution and warn people).

Android fanbois like to point out differences as if they are major
issues - but they are not.

It's just an appliance after all. And of course, most Android phones
have become increasingly less like the Android phones that Android
fanbois like to tout...

[Alan Browne]

On 2021-02-14 04:49, Peter Köhlmann wrote:
>>
>
> Actually, people can chose if they get a android device with or without
> SD card slot.
> Apple customers do not have that choice

You're assuming it's useful to everyone. It's only useful to a few
people and Android fanbois looking to attack Apple iPhones...

[FromTheRafters]

Alan Browne used his or her keyboard to write :

> You're assuming it's useful to everyone. It's only useful to a few
> people and Android fanbois looking to attack Apple iPhones...

Is choice not valuable to everyone whether or not they accept their fate?