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Why is the micro USB so fragile compared to mini USB cable ends?
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Avraham Bernholz
Aug 20, 2014, 12:38:17 AM8/20/14
to
Why is the micro USB so fragile compared to mini USB cable ends?
I bought a bunch of micro-USB cables recently from Frys, and
almost half of them have had the two little nubs on the top
of the male micro-USB connector disappear.
I don't know if they fall off, or if they get pressed down,
or if they bend, or what, but the cables just fall out of
the various devices I use them in (earbuds, smart phones,
speakerphones, etc.).
Is it that micro_USB is inherently more fragile than mini_USB?
Or is it just bad cables from Frys?
I bought a bunch of micro-USB cables recently from Frys, and
almost half of them have had the two little nubs on the top
of the male micro-USB connector disappear.
I don't know if they fall off, or if they get pressed down,
or if they bend, or what, but the cables just fall out of
the various devices I use them in (earbuds, smart phones,
speakerphones, etc.).
Is it that micro_USB is inherently more fragile than mini_USB?
Or is it just bad cables from Frys?
Andy Burns
Aug 20, 2014, 2:34:46 AM8/20/14
to
Avraham Bernholz wrote:
> Why is the micro USB so fragile compared to mini USB cable ends?
>
> I bought a bunch of micro-USB cables recently from Frys, and
> almost half of them have had the two little nubs on the top
> of the male micro-USB connector disappear.
It's deliberate ... with USB and miniUSB the contacts and retaining
> Why is the micro USB so fragile compared to mini USB cable ends?
>
> I bought a bunch of micro-USB cables recently from Frys, and
> almost half of them have had the two little nubs on the top
> of the male micro-USB connector disappear.
springs are in the socket and wear out after 1,000 to 2,000 insertions;
with microUSB the wear is intended to happen within the plug, because
the cable can be more easily replaced, they're also rated for more like
10,000 insertions.
I have sometimes managed to persuade the "nibs" back into life with the
end of pin, but cables are cheap.
Avraham Bernholz
Aug 20, 2014, 2:54:03 AM8/20/14
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Andy Burns wrote, on Wed, 20 Aug 2014 07:34:46 +0100:
> because
> the cable can be more easily replaced, they're also rated for more like
> 10,000 insertions.
These cables are probably a month or two old, so, the number
> because
> the cable can be more easily replaced, they're also rated for more like
> 10,000 insertions.
of insertions was probably about a hundred to three hundred
before they failed.
Chris Uppal
Aug 20, 2014, 6:07:55 AM8/20/14
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Avraham Bernholz wrote:
> > because
> > the cable can be more easily replaced, they're also rated for more like
> > 10,000 insertions.
>
> These cables are probably a month or two old, so, the number
> of insertions was probably about a hundred to three hundred
> before they failed.
Sounds like you got some of a bad batch of cables. Or else you are
> > because
> > the cable can be more easily replaced, they're also rated for more like
> > 10,000 insertions.
>
> These cables are probably a month or two old, so, the number
> of insertions was probably about a hundred to three hundred
> before they failed.
inordinately clumsy with micro-USB connectors. Or else one of your devices has
an out-of-spec micro-USB socket that is breaking your, otherwise perfectly
sound, USB plugs...
FWIW: I have /never/ experienced this problem myself.
-- chris
Avraham Bernholz
Aug 20, 2014, 8:07:36 AM8/20/14
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Chris Uppal wrote, on Wed, 20 Aug 2014 11:07:55 +0100:
> Sounds like you got some of a bad batch of cables.
I wonder if there is a way to tell if a cable is good
> Sounds like you got some of a bad batch of cables.
*before* you buy it?
David L. Martel
Aug 20, 2014, 8:33:58 AM8/20/14
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Avi,
> I wonder if there is a way to tell if a cable is good
> *before* you buy it?
Not likely. Your protection is usually a 30 day warranty.
You have my sympathies. In my experience USB, Mini USB, and Micro USB do
not seem to hold up well under lots of insertions. These designs just do not
work well. And they are currently ubiquitous.
Dave M.
> I wonder if there is a way to tell if a cable is good
> *before* you buy it?
You have my sympathies. In my experience USB, Mini USB, and Micro USB do
not seem to hold up well under lots of insertions. These designs just do not
work well. And they are currently ubiquitous.
Dave M.
Chris Uppal
Aug 20, 2014, 8:47:03 AM8/20/14
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Avraham Bernholz wrote:
> > Sounds like you got some of a bad batch of cables.
>
> I wonder if there is a way to tell if a cable is good
> *before* you buy it?
Price ? Brand ? If the cable comes from a supplier with enough of a name to
> > Sounds like you got some of a bad batch of cables.
>
> I wonder if there is a way to tell if a cable is good
> *before* you buy it?
care about quality control (and therefore test the stuff they get from the
/actual/ supplier) then that's probably the best you can do. In particular if
it comes from a brand that you have had good quality (not necessarily premium
priced) stuff from before.
Perhaps also a visual inspection of the overall build quality will tell you
something about the quality control, but it's difficult to see how to apply
that effectively to something as simple as USB cables.
-- chris
Ralph Mowery
Aug 20, 2014, 9:15:02 AM8/20/14
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"Avraham Bernholz" <Avraham....@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:lt1gmb$mf$1...@news.albasani.net...
cables in betwen 3 and 10 times each day.
William Sommerwerck
Aug 20, 2014, 10:08:24 AM8/20/14
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My cell phone uses a charger with a micro-USB plug. If these were of such poor
quality that they went bad after a few hundred insertions, you can imagine the
reactions of the manufacturer and owner.
quality that they went bad after a few hundred insertions, you can imagine the
reactions of the manufacturer and owner.
Avraham Bernholz
Aug 20, 2014, 10:35:12 AM8/20/14
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Chris Uppal wrote, on Wed, 20 Aug 2014 13:47:03 +0100:
> Price ? Brand ?
I don't have the original shrinkwrap, but it was generic
Frys stuff. I will have to go back and look at the brand,
but, how does *that* help?
Let's say the brand is "made in China" stuff?
Is that necessarily better or worse than "made in anywhere else"
stuff?
I'm sure if the brand were "Belken", it would be good, but,
I think this was just generic stuff. Why should something as
simple as a cable need to be name brand anyway?
And, what is a name brand (other than Belken) anyway, for
cables?
> Price ? Brand ?
I don't have the original shrinkwrap, but it was generic
Frys stuff. I will have to go back and look at the brand,
but, how does *that* help?
Let's say the brand is "made in China" stuff?
Is that necessarily better or worse than "made in anywhere else"
stuff?
I'm sure if the brand were "Belken", it would be good, but,
I think this was just generic stuff. Why should something as
simple as a cable need to be name brand anyway?
And, what is a name brand (other than Belken) anyway, for
cables?
Michael A. Terrell
Aug 20, 2014, 2:02:13 PM8/20/14
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http://www.ebay.com/itm/121338466227
--
Anyone wanting to run for any political office in the US should have to
have a DD214, and a honorable discharge.
Rich Webb
Aug 20, 2014, 1:49:15 PM8/20/14
to
Their prices are good and the quality is excellent. Plus, you can get
right angle cables ... and left, up, or down as well.
Michael A. Terrell
Aug 20, 2014, 2:03:31 PM8/20/14
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green, so they'll be easy to spot, when I need one. :)
Dave Liquorice
Aug 20, 2014, 3:13:06 PM8/20/14
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On Wed, 20 Aug 2014 07:08:24 -0700, William Sommerwerck wrote:
> My cell phone uses a charger with a micro-USB plug.
'cause the phone makers got together and decided on a "universal"
> My cell phone uses a charger with a micro-USB plug.
connector for charging. Under pressure from the consumer about the
being fleeced for chargers with only difference being the propritary
connector.
> If these were of such poor quality that they went bad after a few
> hundred insertions, you can imagine the reactions of the manufacturer
> and owner.
tweleve months or when ever they can twist their provider in to it.
Personally I don't like micro USB. It's too small, doesn't self guide
on insertion, the orientation is non-obvious and with the lack of
self guidance is the thing not going together because it's miss
aligned or the wrong way up? Mini USB doesn't suffer those problems.
--
Cheers
Dave.
Andy Burns
Aug 20, 2014, 3:31:19 PM8/20/14
to
Dave Liquorice wrote:
> Personally I don't like micro USB. It's too small, doesn't self guide
> on insertion, the orientation is non-obvious and with the lack of
> self guidance is the thing not going together because it's miss
> aligned or the wrong way up?
Physically, I will admit the apple lightning connector is nicer, it's
> Personally I don't like micro USB. It's too small, doesn't self guide
> on insertion, the orientation is non-obvious and with the lack of
> self guidance is the thing not going together because it's miss
> aligned or the wrong way up?
still small, is reversible and it inserts smoothly, but I wouldn't want
a proprietary connector.
Avraham Bernholz
Aug 20, 2014, 3:37:59 PM8/20/14
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Michael A. Terrell wrote, on Wed, 20 Aug 2014 14:02:13 -0400:
> Replace the connectors, they are cheap enough.
I didn't know you *could* (easily) replace the connectors!
> Replace the connectors, they are cheap enough.
And, at 5 cents each, no less.
How can they possibly make money selling those micro usb connectors
for 5 cents each, with shipping from Szechuan China being 80 cents?
BTW, are they crimp on? Glue on? Solder on? What?
http://www.ebay.com/itm/121338466227
Avraham Bernholz
Aug 20, 2014, 3:42:06 PM8/20/14
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Avraham Bernholz wrote, on Wed, 20 Aug 2014 14:35:12 +0000:
> I don't have the original shrinkwrap, but it was generic
> Frys stuff. I will have to go back and look at the brand,
> but, how does *that* help?
Here is a picture of a few of the bad microUSB cables:
> I don't have the original shrinkwrap, but it was generic
> Frys stuff. I will have to go back and look at the brand,
> but, how does *that* help?
http://tinypic.com/view.php?pic=wvu1e8&s=8
This 6 foot long Belken cable no longer has any nubs:
http://tinypic.com/view.php?pic=n4fhj9&s=8
So the Belken (on the right) didn't have any more nub than
the no-name brand on the left (in this picture below):
http://tinypic.com/view.php?pic=16kw2s2&s=8
I'm confused how I'm supposed to buy a good micro USB
cable when even the Belken brand loses its nubs.
Avraham Bernholz
Aug 20, 2014, 3:46:43 PM8/20/14
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Ralph Mowery wrote, on Wed, 20 Aug 2014 09:15:02 -0400:
> Sounds like you are using the cables a lot . That would be plugging the
> cables in betwen 3 and 10 times each day.
I don't think I'm using it any more than anyone else.
> Sounds like you are using the cables a lot . That would be plugging the
> cables in betwen 3 and 10 times each day.
I was just guessing at the number of insertions.
It's only a couple times a day that it's used, on average.
Anyway, they failed in far fewer than 10,000 cycles, so, I'm
assuming the micro USB standard is seriously flawed, or, I'm
just getting bad cables from Frys.
Here is what Frys had today for USB cables in the components area:
http://oi61.tinypic.com/2dl23dc.jpg
So, I bought a 3 foot and 6 foot replacement:
http://oi61.tinypic.com/30ljkt1.jpg
We'll see how they fare, but, most seem to lose their nubs in
a few months like these two cables did:
http://oi60.tinypic.com/16kw2s2.jpg
The one at left is no name, the one at right has Belkin molded
on it. Maybe it's a fake? But I bought it at Frys, for sure.
Avraham Bernholz
Aug 20, 2014, 3:56:01 PM8/20/14
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Michael A. Terrell wrote, on Wed, 20 Aug 2014 14:02:13 -0400:
> Replace the connectors, they are cheap enough.
I also have to replace the Duracell USB wall charger I bought
> Replace the connectors, they are cheap enough.
from Frys, as it just fell apart in my hands today!
http://tinypic.com/view.php?pic=2vjpnv8&s=8
That could have been dangerous because it left that missing pin
in hot port of the wall socket!
Avraham Bernholz
Aug 20, 2014, 4:01:16 PM8/20/14
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Dave Liquorice wrote, on Wed, 20 Aug 2014 20:13:06 +0100:
> Personally I don't like micro USB. It's too small, doesn't self guide
> on insertion, the orientation is non-obvious and with the lack of
> self guidance is the thing not going together because it's miss
> Personally I don't like micro USB. It's too small, doesn't self guide
> on insertion, the orientation is non-obvious and with the lack of
> self guidance is the thing not going together because it's miss
> aligned or the wrong way up? Mini USB doesn't suffer those problems.
I agree with you that miniUSB was easier than microUSB, and I'm
all for standards, but for the newer micro USB plugs to last far
fewer insertions is crazy.
At least they should have come up with a standard where the number
of insertions goes *up*, not down, as they improve the connector!
BTW, you'll notice the pink nail polish? I saw that trick on a
forum here. It let's me know right away which way to insert the
plug as there's a matching dot on the device also! :)
http://tinypic.com/view.php?pic=2vjpnv8&s=8
Avraham Bernholz
Aug 20, 2014, 4:04:55 PM8/20/14
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Andy Burns wrote, on Wed, 20 Aug 2014 20:31:19 +0100:
> Physically, I will admit the apple lightning connector is nicer, it's
> still small, is reversible and it inserts smoothly, but I wouldn't want
> a proprietary connector.
Funny you should mention the lightning as I have iPads which
> Physically, I will admit the apple lightning connector is nicer, it's
> still small, is reversible and it inserts smoothly, but I wouldn't want
> a proprietary connector.
I also want to extend, so, I bought these extension cables today:
http://tinypic.com/view.php?pic=30iamj5&s=8
I haven't opened them, because, when I got home, I realized that
I *maybe* should have gotten USB 3.0 extensions, instead of USB 2.0
extensions?
Assuming the big end is plugged into something of high enough power,
does it matter if the USB extension cable is USB 2.0 or 3.0?
I mean, I understand that 3.0 is more power, but that is for the port,
right? Is it also the cable?
That is, would I lose some power simply by connecting the iPad to the
lightning to the USB 2.0 cable to the 2.1 Amp wall charger ?
Rod Speed
Aug 20, 2014, 4:20:48 PM8/20/14
to
"Andy Burns" <usenet....@adslpipe.co.uk> wrote in message
news:TLGdnRslbZUVamnO...@brightview.co.uk...
> Dave Liquorice wrote:
>
>> Personally I don't like micro USB. It's too small, doesn't self guide
>> on insertion, the orientation is non-obvious and with the lack of
>> self guidance is the thing not going together because it's miss
>> aligned or the wrong way up?
> Physically, I will admit the apple lightning connector is nicer, it's
> still small, is reversible and it inserts smoothly,
Main downside is that the contacts are all exposed on the
>
>> Personally I don't like micro USB. It's too small, doesn't self guide
>> on insertion, the orientation is non-obvious and with the lack of
>> self guidance is the thing not going together because it's miss
>> aligned or the wrong way up?
> Physically, I will admit the apple lightning connector is nicer, it's
> still small, is reversible and it inserts smoothly,
end of the cable. That hasn�t bitten me yet, but it will sometime.
> but I wouldn't want a proprietary connector.
But particularly with some very small devices like the Nokia BH-505
bluetooth headset, I do like the tiny proprietary Nokia jack because
that has just a tiny hole in the headset, under a bit of rubber that
stops water and sweat getting in it when the headset is being used.
Rod Speed
Aug 20, 2014, 4:24:47 PM8/20/14
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Avraham Bernholz <Avraham....@gmail.com> wrote
> Michael A. Terrell wrote
>> Replace the connectors, they are cheap enough.
> I didn't know you *could* (easily) replace the connectors!
> And, at 5 cents each, no less.
> How can they possibly make money selling those micro usb connectors
> for 5 cents each, with shipping from Szechuan China being 80 cents?
You sure about that 80c ? I've got lots of stuff for $1 total cost.
Those are definitely solder, you can see that in the second and third last
photos.
> Michael A. Terrell wrote
>> Replace the connectors, they are cheap enough.
> I didn't know you *could* (easily) replace the connectors!
> And, at 5 cents each, no less.
> How can they possibly make money selling those micro usb connectors
> for 5 cents each, with shipping from Szechuan China being 80 cents?
Those are definitely solder, you can see that in the second and third last
photos.
Rod Speed
Aug 20, 2014, 4:32:15 PM8/20/14
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news:lt2tme$qun$2...@news.albasani.net...
I've got one that is used for the Logitech mouse and keyboard
charging and it hasn’t lost its nubs. Its been used every week or
so for charging both the mouse and keyboard, every week for
each. Came with one of them from logitech. From memory I
got one with each and have just used the one to charge both.
charging and it hasn’t lost its nubs. Its been used every week or
so for charging both the mouse and keyboard, every week for
each. Came with one of them from logitech. From memory I
got one with each and have just used the one to charge both.
Rod Speed
Aug 20, 2014, 4:40:45 PM8/20/14
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news:lt2tv3$qun$3...@news.albasani.net...
Yeah, that's one obvious possibility.
> But I bought it at Frys, for sure.
Dunno if they have ever sold fake Belkins.
> But I bought it at Frys, for sure.
Rod Speed
Aug 20, 2014, 4:42:25 PM8/20/14
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news:lt2ugg$qun$5...@news.albasani.net...
Have a look at the charger teardowns on youtube
You may never buy a non branded mains charger from china again.
You may never buy a non branded mains charger from china again.
Rod Speed
Aug 20, 2014, 4:44:09 PM8/20/14
to
news:lt2uqc$qun$6...@news.albasani.net...
Tho I'd prefer model paint since I'd have to buy it anyway.
> Dave Liquorice wrote, on Wed, 20 Aug 2014 20:13:06 +0100:
>
>> Personally I don't like micro USB. It's too small, doesn't self guide
>> on insertion, the orientation is non-obvious and with the lack of
>> self guidance is the thing not going together because it's miss
>> aligned or the wrong way up? Mini USB doesn't suffer those problems.
>
> I agree with you that miniUSB was easier than microUSB, and I'm
> all for standards, but for the newer micro USB plugs to last far
> fewer insertions is crazy.
>
> At least they should have come up with a standard where the number
> of insertions goes *up*, not down, as they improve the connector!
>
> BTW, you'll notice the pink nail polish?
Yeah, wondered what that was. Good idea.
>
>> Personally I don't like micro USB. It's too small, doesn't self guide
>> on insertion, the orientation is non-obvious and with the lack of
>> self guidance is the thing not going together because it's miss
>> aligned or the wrong way up? Mini USB doesn't suffer those problems.
>
> I agree with you that miniUSB was easier than microUSB, and I'm
> all for standards, but for the newer micro USB plugs to last far
> fewer insertions is crazy.
>
> At least they should have come up with a standard where the number
> of insertions goes *up*, not down, as they improve the connector!
>
> BTW, you'll notice the pink nail polish?
Tho I'd prefer model paint since I'd have to buy it anyway.
Rod Speed
Aug 20, 2014, 4:55:04 PM8/20/14
to
news:lt2v17$qun$7...@news.albasani.net...
> I mean, I understand that 3.0 is more power,
> but that is for the port, right?
Yep.
> Is it also the cable?
No, the wire gauge isnt specified in the standard.
> That is, would I lose some power simply by connecting the iPad to the
> lightning to the USB 2.0 cable to the 2.1 Amp wall charger ?
You can do if the wire gauge is too low so you get substantial
voltage drop in the extension cable.
The best way to check that is to get one of the USB
voltage and current meters off ebay for peanuts.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/USB-Charger-Doctor-Mobile-Battery-Tester-Power-Detector-Voltage-Current-Meter-/201116495155
> Andy Burns wrote, on Wed, 20 Aug 2014 20:31:19 +0100:
>
>> Physically, I will admit the apple lightning connector is nicer, it's
>> still small, is reversible and it inserts smoothly, but I wouldn't want
>> a proprietary connector.
>
> Funny you should mention the lightning as I have iPads which
> I also want to extend, so, I bought these extension cables today:
> http://tinypic.com/view.php?pic=30iamj5&s=8
>
> I haven't opened them, because, when I got home, I realized that
> I *maybe* should have gotten USB 3.0 extensions, instead of USB 2.0
> extensions?
>
> Assuming the big end is plugged into something of high enough power,
> does it matter if the USB extension cable is USB 2.0 or 3.0?
No, what matters is how much metal there is in the wires in the cable.
>
>> Physically, I will admit the apple lightning connector is nicer, it's
>> still small, is reversible and it inserts smoothly, but I wouldn't want
>> a proprietary connector.
>
> Funny you should mention the lightning as I have iPads which
> I also want to extend, so, I bought these extension cables today:
> http://tinypic.com/view.php?pic=30iamj5&s=8
>
> I haven't opened them, because, when I got home, I realized that
> I *maybe* should have gotten USB 3.0 extensions, instead of USB 2.0
> extensions?
>
> Assuming the big end is plugged into something of high enough power,
> does it matter if the USB extension cable is USB 2.0 or 3.0?
> I mean, I understand that 3.0 is more power,
> but that is for the port, right?
> Is it also the cable?
> That is, would I lose some power simply by connecting the iPad to the
> lightning to the USB 2.0 cable to the 2.1 Amp wall charger ?
voltage drop in the extension cable.
The best way to check that is to get one of the USB
voltage and current meters off ebay for peanuts.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/USB-Charger-Doctor-Mobile-Battery-Tester-Power-Detector-Voltage-Current-Meter-/201116495155
Jeff Liebermann
Aug 20, 2014, 5:57:27 PM8/20/14
to
On Wed, 20 Aug 2014 04:38:17 +0000 (UTC), Avraham Bernholz
<Avraham....@gmail.com> wrote:
>Why is the micro USB so fragile compared to mini USB cable ends?
Because the micro-USB is designed to be fragile. The spec for both
<Avraham....@gmail.com> wrote:
>Why is the micro USB so fragile compared to mini USB cable ends?
connectors was originally 1,500 insertion cycles. That's roughly once
per day for 5 years, which is more than the average life of the cell
phone or gadget which uses the connector. A longer life would just be
a waste of money (for the manufacturers). The micro-USB spec was
later increased to 5,000 or even 10,000 cycles, which I suspect was
more wishful thinking than actual testing.
I've torn apart a few "failed" mini and micro USB connectors, mostly
on cell phones. Although most of the permanent damage is from
breakage, a fair number of the gold contacts had the plating blown
off, apparently from arcing. My guess(tm) is that inserting the
connector with the power applied is discharging a large capacitor in
the power source, through the connector, to the cell phone. It
doesn't take many arcs to destroy the gold plating. The USB 2.0
specification limits the initial inrush current to 0.1A before the
chips negotiate to turn on the current to anywhere from 0.5A to 2A
maximum current. The spec also limits the size of the load
capacitance to 10uf. The idea is to prevent arcing. However, if the
power supply vendor ignores the spec, the connector contacts will fry
in short order.
Some relevant comments on USB:
<http://electronics.stackexchange.com/questions/18552/why-was-mini-usb-deprecated-in-favor-of-micro-usb>
<http://electronics.stackexchange.com/questions/36375/understanding-usb-inrush-current-requirements>
<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/USB#Durability>
--
Jeff Liebermann je...@cruzio.com
150 Felker St #D http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558
Ralph Mowery
Aug 20, 2014, 6:41:59 PM8/20/14
to
"Jeff Liebermann" <je...@cruzio.com> wrote in message
news:145av9d2c1bn25d6q...@4ax.com...
> On Wed, 20 Aug 2014 04:38:17 +0000 (UTC), Avraham Bernholz
> <Avraham....@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>>Why is the micro USB so fragile compared to mini USB cable ends?
>
> Because the micro-USB is designed to be fragile. The spec for both
> connectors was originally 1,500 insertion cycles. That's roughly once
> per day for 5 years, which is more than the average life of the cell
> phone or gadget which uses the connector. A longer life would just be
> a waste of money (for the manufacturers). The micro-USB spec was
> later increased to 5,000 or even 10,000 cycles, which I suspect was
> more wishful thinking than actual testing.
>
That is why I asked why the origional poster was plugging in about 3 to 10
> <Avraham....@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>>Why is the micro USB so fragile compared to mini USB cable ends?
>
> Because the micro-USB is designed to be fragile. The spec for both
> connectors was originally 1,500 insertion cycles. That's roughly once
> per day for 5 years, which is more than the average life of the cell
> phone or gadget which uses the connector. A longer life would just be
> a waste of money (for the manufacturers). The micro-USB spec was
> later increased to 5,000 or even 10,000 cycles, which I suspect was
> more wishful thinking than actual testing.
>
times a day.
Avraham Bernholz
Aug 20, 2014, 10:08:43 PM8/20/14
to
Ralph Mowery wrote, on Wed, 20 Aug 2014 18:41:59 -0400:
> That is why I asked why the origional poster was plugging
> in about 3 to 10 times a day.
I never formally measured how many times I plug in a day,
> That is why I asked why the origional poster was plugging
> in about 3 to 10 times a day.
but, for the smartphone, it's at least 3 to 5 times a day.
For example, I get in the car, and plug in the phone (otherwise
the battery will die with the GPS running). I use the GPS and
go to the store (I use the GPS with traffic all the time, even
if I know where I'm going).
I get out of the car at the store and bring my phone.
Back from the store, I plug her back in.
Off to my next errand.
Then, I get to work (let's say), and pull it again, and then plug
it into the work USB cable. Each time I run to a meeting, I unplug
it (the darn thing only lasts a few hours and I've been caught
dead too many times).
Then, it's off to lunch, and we plug it back in at the car, and
back off, and then back at work we plug in, and off, etc.
Back at home, we run the same routine. So, the total number of
plugs in and out is easily about 20 a day (or so), but only about
five or ten on any one cable.
If the battery would last all day, that would be a different
story, but it won't last more than a few hours.
Rod Speed
Aug 20, 2014, 10:21:19 PM8/20/14
to
news:lt3kbb$fn8$1...@news.albasani.net...
Which phone is that ? That's obscene.
Jeff Liebermann
Aug 20, 2014, 10:37:07 PM8/20/14
to
On Thu, 21 Aug 2014 02:08:43 +0000 (UTC), Avraham Bernholz
<Avraham....@gmail.com> wrote:
>Ralph Mowery wrote, on Wed, 20 Aug 2014 18:41:59 -0400:
>
>> That is why I asked why the origional poster was plugging
>> in about 3 to 10 times a day.
>
>I never formally measured how many times I plug in a day,
>but, for the smartphone, it's at least 3 to 5 times a day.
I'll take the 5 times per day or about 1500 insertion/removal cycles
<Avraham....@gmail.com> wrote:
>Ralph Mowery wrote, on Wed, 20 Aug 2014 18:41:59 -0400:
>
>> That is why I asked why the origional poster was plugging
>> in about 3 to 10 times a day.
>
>I never formally measured how many times I plug in a day,
>but, for the smartphone, it's at least 3 to 5 times a day.
per year. If you believe the 10,000 cycles specification, then you'll
get 6.7 years life. Of course, introducing some dirt into the
connector should improve the abrasion. Oddly, I read that the reason
for the increase in mating cycles is beause of the redesigned
stainless shell, not anything to do with the contacts.
<http://www.mouser.com/new/kycon/kyconmicrousb/>
"With a stainless steel shell, the KMMLX series yields more
than 10,000 insertion cycles."
Color me suspicious.
Jeff Liebermann
Aug 20, 2014, 11:09:15 PM8/20/14
to
On Thu, 21 Aug 2014 12:21:19 +1000, "Rod Speed"
<rod.sp...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> If the battery would last all day, that would be a different
>> story, but it won't last more than a few hours.
>Which phone is that ? That's obscene.
It might not be the phone. If the signal from the towers are weak,
<rod.sp...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> If the battery would last all day, that would be a different
>> story, but it won't last more than a few hours.
>Which phone is that ? That's obscene.
the phone will loose the connection and go hunting for a better tower.
It does this by transmitting it's ID until a tower answers. In strong
signal areas, my ancient LG VX8300 phone will last about 4 days. When
all the local towers went off the air after some idiot cut the
backhaul fiber in 2009, my cell phone battery was dead 6 hours after a
full charge.
Drivel: I recently noticed that my Motorola Droid X2 phone battery
was barely making it through the day. I replaced the battery, and no
change. Looking at the settings, I found that most of the power was
being consumed by the backlighting. That's odd, because I only use
this phone as a PDA and only to lookup phone numbers and appointments.
Hardly any real use that would account for hours of backlighting.
Then, I remembered that I had changed the backlighting delay from 1
minute to 2 minutes. The phone was activating in my picket, causing
the backlighting to activate in my pocket. With the backlight turn
off delay doubled, so was my overall daily current drain. I set it
back to 1 minute and the battery life dramatically improved. I later
discovered that there was no way to prevent an accidental button press
from turning on the backlighting. (Bad design).
Rod Speed
Aug 20, 2014, 11:27:15 PM8/20/14
to
news:26oav99db8asj0t98...@4ax.com...
a reputation for lousy time between charges.
> If the signal from the towers are weak, the phone will loose
> the connection and go hunting for a better tower. It does
> this by transmitting it's ID until a tower answers. In strong
> signal areas, my ancient LG VX8300 phone will last about 4
> days. When all the local towers went off the air after some
> idiot cut the backhaul fiber in 2009, my cell phone battery
> was dead 6 hours after a full charge.
I don't get that effect with mine. I do drive between towns
in rural areas with no coverage between them and don't
find that I see a much reduced time on battery in that
situation and I leave the GPS, wifi and bluetooth on all
the time too.
> Drivel: I recently noticed that my Motorola Droid X2 phone battery
> was barely making it through the day. I replaced the battery, and no
> change. Looking at the settings, I found that most of the power was
> being consumed by the backlighting. That's odd, because I only use
> this phone as a PDA and only to lookup phone numbers and appointments.
> Hardly any real use that would account for hours of backlighting.
> Then, I remembered that I had changed the backlighting delay from 1
> minute to 2 minutes. The phone was activating in my picket, causing
> the backlighting to activate in my pocket. With the backlight turn
> off delay doubled, so was my overall daily current drain. I set it
> back to 1 minute and the battery life dramatically improved. I later
> discovered that there was no way to prevent an accidental button press
> from turning on the backlighting. (Bad design).
Yeah, I bet the problem is something like that with his.
I also don't get the effect he does that you need to have
the phone on the charger to use the GPS in the car either.
> On Thu, 21 Aug 2014 12:21:19 +1000, "Rod Speed"
> <rod.sp...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>>> If the battery would last all day, that would be a different
>>> story, but it won't last more than a few hours.
>
>>Which phone is that ? That's obscene.
>
> It might not be the phone.
That's why I asked, to see if that phone has
> <rod.sp...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>>> If the battery would last all day, that would be a different
>>> story, but it won't last more than a few hours.
>
>>Which phone is that ? That's obscene.
>
> It might not be the phone.
a reputation for lousy time between charges.
> If the signal from the towers are weak, the phone will loose
> the connection and go hunting for a better tower. It does
> this by transmitting it's ID until a tower answers. In strong
> signal areas, my ancient LG VX8300 phone will last about 4
> days. When all the local towers went off the air after some
> idiot cut the backhaul fiber in 2009, my cell phone battery
> was dead 6 hours after a full charge.
in rural areas with no coverage between them and don't
find that I see a much reduced time on battery in that
situation and I leave the GPS, wifi and bluetooth on all
the time too.
> Drivel: I recently noticed that my Motorola Droid X2 phone battery
> was barely making it through the day. I replaced the battery, and no
> change. Looking at the settings, I found that most of the power was
> being consumed by the backlighting. That's odd, because I only use
> this phone as a PDA and only to lookup phone numbers and appointments.
> Hardly any real use that would account for hours of backlighting.
> Then, I remembered that I had changed the backlighting delay from 1
> minute to 2 minutes. The phone was activating in my picket, causing
> the backlighting to activate in my pocket. With the backlight turn
> off delay doubled, so was my overall daily current drain. I set it
> back to 1 minute and the battery life dramatically improved. I later
> discovered that there was no way to prevent an accidental button press
> from turning on the backlighting. (Bad design).
I also don't get the effect he does that you need to have
the phone on the charger to use the GPS in the car either.
Jeff Liebermann
Aug 21, 2014, 12:25:25 AM8/21/14
to
On Thu, 21 Aug 2014 13:27:15 +1000, "Rod Speed"
can adjust the results by your usage pattern. Too bad it doesn't
include accidentally turning on the back lighting in one's pocket:
<http://www.gsmarena.com/gsmarena_labs_introducing_the_battery_life_table-news-8159.php>
<http://www.gsmarena.com/battery-test.php3>
>I don't get that effect with mine. I do drive between towns
>in rural areas with no coverage between them and don't
>find that I see a much reduced time on battery in that
>situation and I leave the GPS, wifi and bluetooth on all
>the time too.
Well, try this simple test. Put your phone inside an aluminum foil
bag or box. The foil should provide a fairly good RF shield
simulating a zero signal situation. If you're not sure if the
shielding is working, try calling your cell phone from another phone
to see if it rings. If it does ring, you're either too close to a
cell site, or the shielding is somehow inadequate. I've only done
this once using a Motorola Droid X and the battery was nearly dead in
about 8 hrs. This is higher than "normal" because in the foil box,
the backlighting never came on, no calls were made, and no videos were
played.
>I also don't get the effect he does that you need to have
>the phone on the charger to use the GPS in the car either.
I vaguely recall that some older phones, like my ancient AudioVox
XV-6700 had a feature that only enabled the GPS when it was plugged
into a car kit. The GPS sucked so much power that it would rapidly
deplete the battery if left on. So, that was a battery saving
feature.
<rod.sp...@gmail.com> wrote:
>"Jeff Liebermann" <je...@cruzio.com> wrote in message
>news:26oav99db8asj0t98...@4ax.com...
>> On Thu, 21 Aug 2014 12:21:19 +1000, "Rod Speed"
>> <rod.sp...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>>> If the battery would last all day, that would be a different
>>>> story, but it won't last more than a few hours.
>>
>>>Which phone is that ? That's obscene.
>>
>> It might not be the phone.
>
>That's why I asked, to see if that phone has
>a reputation for lousy time between charges.
Well, there are tests for battery life. This one is nice because you
>"Jeff Liebermann" <je...@cruzio.com> wrote in message
>news:26oav99db8asj0t98...@4ax.com...
>> On Thu, 21 Aug 2014 12:21:19 +1000, "Rod Speed"
>> <rod.sp...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>>> If the battery would last all day, that would be a different
>>>> story, but it won't last more than a few hours.
>>
>>>Which phone is that ? That's obscene.
>>
>> It might not be the phone.
>
>That's why I asked, to see if that phone has
>a reputation for lousy time between charges.
can adjust the results by your usage pattern. Too bad it doesn't
include accidentally turning on the back lighting in one's pocket:
<http://www.gsmarena.com/gsmarena_labs_introducing_the_battery_life_table-news-8159.php>
<http://www.gsmarena.com/battery-test.php3>
>I don't get that effect with mine. I do drive between towns
>in rural areas with no coverage between them and don't
>find that I see a much reduced time on battery in that
>situation and I leave the GPS, wifi and bluetooth on all
>the time too.
bag or box. The foil should provide a fairly good RF shield
simulating a zero signal situation. If you're not sure if the
shielding is working, try calling your cell phone from another phone
to see if it rings. If it does ring, you're either too close to a
cell site, or the shielding is somehow inadequate. I've only done
this once using a Motorola Droid X and the battery was nearly dead in
about 8 hrs. This is higher than "normal" because in the foil box,
the backlighting never came on, no calls were made, and no videos were
played.
>I also don't get the effect he does that you need to have
>the phone on the charger to use the GPS in the car either.
XV-6700 had a feature that only enabled the GPS when it was plugged
into a car kit. The GPS sucked so much power that it would rapidly
deplete the battery if left on. So, that was a battery saving
feature.
Rod Speed
Aug 21, 2014, 12:56:22 AM8/21/14
to
news:tvrav9tnnd0jebnl2...@4ax.com...
I effectively do that test when I drive between major towns.
> This is higher than "normal" because in the foil box,
> the backlighting never came on, no calls were made,
> and no videos were played.
>>I also don't get the effect he does that you need to have
>>the phone on the charger to use the GPS in the car either.
> I vaguely recall that some older phones, like my ancient AudioVox
> XV-6700 had a feature that only enabled the GPS when it was plugged
> into a car kit. The GPS sucked so much power that it would rapidly
> deplete the battery if left on. So, that was a battery saving feature.
Yeah, some did operate like that. Plenty didn't tho, most obviously
with the TomTom stand alone GPSs which I never bothered to
plug into the car, just made sure I charged it up before moving
it to the car at the start of a trip.
> This is higher than "normal" because in the foil box,
> the backlighting never came on, no calls were made,
> and no videos were played.
>>I also don't get the effect he does that you need to have
>>the phone on the charger to use the GPS in the car either.
> I vaguely recall that some older phones, like my ancient AudioVox
> XV-6700 had a feature that only enabled the GPS when it was plugged
> into a car kit. The GPS sucked so much power that it would rapidly
> deplete the battery if left on. So, that was a battery saving feature.
with the TomTom stand alone GPSs which I never bothered to
plug into the car, just made sure I charged it up before moving
it to the car at the start of a trip.
Poutnik
Aug 21, 2014, 1:18:51 AM8/21/14
to
Dne 20.8.2014 v 23:57 Jeff Liebermann napsal(a):
before I plug the USB end into USB socket of PC or a charge.
--
Poutnik
Wise man guards the words he says,
as they may say about him more,
than he says about the subject.
> I've torn apart a few "failed" mini and micro USB connectors, mostly
> on cell phones. Although most of the permanent damage is from
> breakage, a fair number of the gold contacts had the plating blown
> off, apparently from arcing. My guess(tm) is that inserting the
> connector with the power applied is discharging a large capacitor in
> the power source, through the connector, to the cell phone. It
> doesn't take many arcs to destroy the gold plating. The USB 2.0
> specification limits the initial inrush current to 0.1A before the
> chips negotiate to turn on the current to anywhere from 0.5A to 2A
> maximum current. The spec also limits the size of the load
> capacitance to 10uf. The idea is to prevent arcing. However, if the
> power supply vendor ignores the spec, the connector contacts will fry
> in short order.
I instinctively plug micro USB end into a phone,
> on cell phones. Although most of the permanent damage is from
> breakage, a fair number of the gold contacts had the plating blown
> off, apparently from arcing. My guess(tm) is that inserting the
> connector with the power applied is discharging a large capacitor in
> the power source, through the connector, to the cell phone. It
> doesn't take many arcs to destroy the gold plating. The USB 2.0
> specification limits the initial inrush current to 0.1A before the
> chips negotiate to turn on the current to anywhere from 0.5A to 2A
> maximum current. The spec also limits the size of the load
> capacitance to 10uf. The idea is to prevent arcing. However, if the
> power supply vendor ignores the spec, the connector contacts will fry
> in short order.
before I plug the USB end into USB socket of PC or a charge.
--
Poutnik
Wise man guards the words he says,
as they may say about him more,
than he says about the subject.
Poutnik
Aug 21, 2014, 1:28:51 AM8/21/14
to
Dne 21.8.2014 v 05:27 Rod Speed napsal(a):
( phone may give up, not listening any tower )
and weak coverage ( phone tries to communicate by high power
to weak signals of distant/terrain shielded towers ).
I remember my old Siemens feature phone M50 lasted usually 4 days.
But in the mountains with bad coverage,
it was drained in few hours of whole day ski trip.
> I don't get that effect with mine. I do drive between towns
> in rural areas with no coverage between them and don't
> find that I see a much reduced time on battery in that
> situation and I leave the GPS, wifi and bluetooth on all
> the time too.
Perhaps there is difference between no coverage
> in rural areas with no coverage between them and don't
> find that I see a much reduced time on battery in that
> situation and I leave the GPS, wifi and bluetooth on all
> the time too.
( phone may give up, not listening any tower )
and weak coverage ( phone tries to communicate by high power
to weak signals of distant/terrain shielded towers ).
I remember my old Siemens feature phone M50 lasted usually 4 days.
But in the mountains with bad coverage,
it was drained in few hours of whole day ski trip.
c...@isbd.net
Aug 21, 2014, 4:19:06 AM8/21/14
to
Dave Liquorice <allsortsn...@howhill.com> wrote:
> On Wed, 20 Aug 2014 07:08:24 -0700, William Sommerwerck wrote:
>
> > My cell phone uses a charger with a micro-USB plug.
>
> 'cause the phone makers got together and decided on a "universal"
> connector for charging. Under pressure from the consumer about the
> being fleeced for chargers with only difference being the propritary
> connector.
>
I think it was actually the EU (European Community) that sort of
persuaded them, it's only a voluntary code though.
> > If these were of such poor quality that they went bad after a few
> > hundred insertions, you can imagine the reactions of the manufacturer
> > and owner.
>
> Do people keep a phone that long? People here seem to upgrade every
> tweleve months or when ever they can twist their provider in to it.
I'm sure lots of minor damage to plug and socket comes from attempts
to push the plug in the wrong way up. Mini-usb is much better from
that point of view because of its obvious shape,
--
Chris Green
·
> On Wed, 20 Aug 2014 07:08:24 -0700, William Sommerwerck wrote:
>
> > My cell phone uses a charger with a micro-USB plug.
>
> 'cause the phone makers got together and decided on a "universal"
> connector for charging. Under pressure from the consumer about the
> being fleeced for chargers with only difference being the propritary
> connector.
>
I think it was actually the EU (European Community) that sort of
persuaded them, it's only a voluntary code though.
> > If these were of such poor quality that they went bad after a few
> > hundred insertions, you can imagine the reactions of the manufacturer
> > and owner.
>
> Do people keep a phone that long? People here seem to upgrade every
> tweleve months or when ever they can twist their provider in to it.
>
> Personally I don't like micro USB. It's too small, doesn't self guide
> on insertion, the orientation is non-obvious and with the lack of
> self guidance is the thing not going together because it's miss
> aligned or the wrong way up? Mini USB doesn't suffer those problems.
>
Apart from anything else it's not easy to work out the right way up,
> Personally I don't like micro USB. It's too small, doesn't self guide
> on insertion, the orientation is non-obvious and with the lack of
> self guidance is the thing not going together because it's miss
> aligned or the wrong way up? Mini USB doesn't suffer those problems.
>
I'm sure lots of minor damage to plug and socket comes from attempts
to push the plug in the wrong way up. Mini-usb is much better from
that point of view because of its obvious shape,
--
Chris Green
·
Avraham Bernholz
Aug 21, 2014, 6:30:43 AM8/21/14
to
Poutnik wrote, on Thu, 21 Aug 2014 07:18:51 +0200:
> I instinctively plug micro USB end into a phone,
> before I plug the USB end into USB socket of PC or a charge.
One thing I've just learned, from Jeff Liebermann, is to do
> I instinctively plug micro USB end into a phone,
> before I plug the USB end into USB socket of PC or a charge.
the same!
Avraham Bernholz
Aug 21, 2014, 6:43:54 AM8/21/14
to
cl wrote, on Thu, 21 Aug 2014 09:19:06 +0100:
> I'm sure lots of minor damage to plug and socket comes from attempts
> to push the plug in the wrong way up.
I put a dab of the wife's pink nail polish on the USB top of the
> I'm sure lots of minor damage to plug and socket comes from attempts
> to push the plug in the wrong way up.
connectors, and, in the case of the less obvious device ports, on the
device itself, where the pink dots are to be visually matched *before*
one plugs in the connector.
So, at least in "my" situation, that's not why the USB nibs are failing.
I think it's a bad batch of cables from Frys.
I found an unopened original cable still in its packaging from Frys
(I had bought about a dozen cables at the same time):
http://tinypic.com/view.php?pic=124v8ns&s=8
Those cables stink!
Roxgo, http://www.roxgo.com,
Manufactured and exported by Zendex, Inc, South El Monte, CA 91733,
Made in China, UPC 851556004031
Chris Uppal
Aug 21, 2014, 7:52:31 AM8/21/14
to
Avraham Bernholz wrote:
> > Price ? Brand ?
> Is that necessarily better or worse than "made in anywhere else"
> stuff?
I'd imagine that wherever you buy this kind of kit, and whoever is named as the
"supplier", it's actually produced by some unknown factory (probably in China
as things stand today, not that it makes any difference). And, more, that it
won't always be the /same/ factory -- it'll be whichever offered to make the
stuff cheapest.
So you really have no hope of identifying an /actual/ supplier, let alone of
finding a good one.
But what you /can/ do is buy from a brand with a name that a reputation (good
or bad) will stick to. Such brands have the incentive to monitor the quality
of the stuff they are getting from the /real/ suppliers, and will switch
suppliers if the quality drops.
Of course, even a brand might let a bad batch slip through: one with the wrong
steel for the connector, or the crimping machine out of adjustment (so that it
makes the crimps too sharp, and hence fragile). But that won't happen often
/precisely because/ they are taking steps to avoid it.
> I'm sure if the brand were "Belken", it would be good, but,
> I think this was just generic stuff. Why should something as
> simple as a cable need to be name brand anyway?
Well, you answered that in your first post ;-) It turns out that micro-USB
plugs have to be assembled to a certain standard or they stop working. (This
is still on the assumption that something else isn't causing the breakage)
> And, what is a name brand (other than Belken) anyway, for
> cables?
Can't make any recommendations. I generally buy cables in shops (not online),
and avoid "cheap" shops at that, but I don't consciously buy by brand. As I
say, I have had exactly zero problems with USB[*] so far (full, micro, or
mini), but to what extent that's down to luck, differences in the way I use
USB, buying higher quality cables, or whatever, I can't say.
-- chris
[*] Unlike bloody Ethernet connections...
> > Price ? Brand ?
>
> I don't have the original shrinkwrap, but it was generic
> Frys stuff. I will have to go back and look at the brand,
> but, how does *that* help?
>
> Let's say the brand is "made in China" stuff?
> I don't have the original shrinkwrap, but it was generic
> Frys stuff. I will have to go back and look at the brand,
> but, how does *that* help?
>
> Is that necessarily better or worse than "made in anywhere else"
> stuff?
I'd imagine that wherever you buy this kind of kit, and whoever is named as the
"supplier", it's actually produced by some unknown factory (probably in China
as things stand today, not that it makes any difference). And, more, that it
won't always be the /same/ factory -- it'll be whichever offered to make the
stuff cheapest.
So you really have no hope of identifying an /actual/ supplier, let alone of
finding a good one.
But what you /can/ do is buy from a brand with a name that a reputation (good
or bad) will stick to. Such brands have the incentive to monitor the quality
of the stuff they are getting from the /real/ suppliers, and will switch
suppliers if the quality drops.
Of course, even a brand might let a bad batch slip through: one with the wrong
steel for the connector, or the crimping machine out of adjustment (so that it
makes the crimps too sharp, and hence fragile). But that won't happen often
/precisely because/ they are taking steps to avoid it.
> I'm sure if the brand were "Belken", it would be good, but,
> I think this was just generic stuff. Why should something as
> simple as a cable need to be name brand anyway?
Well, you answered that in your first post ;-) It turns out that micro-USB
plugs have to be assembled to a certain standard or they stop working. (This
is still on the assumption that something else isn't causing the breakage)
> And, what is a name brand (other than Belken) anyway, for
> cables?
Can't make any recommendations. I generally buy cables in shops (not online),
and avoid "cheap" shops at that, but I don't consciously buy by brand. As I
say, I have had exactly zero problems with USB[*] so far (full, micro, or
mini), but to what extent that's down to luck, differences in the way I use
USB, buying higher quality cables, or whatever, I can't say.
-- chris
[*] Unlike bloody Ethernet connections...
Avraham Bernholz
Aug 21, 2014, 8:19:27 AM8/21/14
to
Chris Uppal wrote, on Thu, 21 Aug 2014 12:52:31 +0100:
> I'd imagine that wherever you buy this kind of kit, and whoever is named
> as the "supplier", it's actually produced by some unknown factory
> (probably in China as things stand today, not that it makes any
> difference). And, more, that it won't always be the /same/ factory --
> it'll be whichever offered to make the stuff cheapest.
I found an unopened package of the dozen or so cables I had bought from
> I'd imagine that wherever you buy this kind of kit, and whoever is named
> as the "supplier", it's actually produced by some unknown factory
> (probably in China as things stand today, not that it makes any
> difference). And, more, that it won't always be the /same/ factory --
> it'll be whichever offered to make the stuff cheapest.
Frys. http://tinypic.com/view.php?pic=124v8ns&s=8
Roxgo, http://www.roxgo.com,
Manufactured and exported by Zendex, Inc, South El Monte, CA 91733,
Made in China, UPC 851556004031
Don't buy those cables! :)
chris
Aug 21, 2014, 8:56:31 AM8/21/14
to
On 21/08/2014 09:19, c...@isbd.net wrote:
> Dave Liquorice <allsortsn...@howhill.com> wrote:
>> On Wed, 20 Aug 2014 07:08:24 -0700, William Sommerwerck wrote:
>>
>>> My cell phone uses a charger with a micro-USB plug.
>>
>> 'cause the phone makers got together and decided on a "universal"
>> connector for charging. Under pressure from the consumer about the
>> being fleeced for chargers with only difference being the propritary
>> connector.
>>
> I think it was actually the EU (European Community) that sort of
> persuaded them, it's only a voluntary code though.
Yup. European Commission to be exact.
> Dave Liquorice <allsortsn...@howhill.com> wrote:
>> On Wed, 20 Aug 2014 07:08:24 -0700, William Sommerwerck wrote:
>>
>>> My cell phone uses a charger with a micro-USB plug.
>>
>> 'cause the phone makers got together and decided on a "universal"
>> connector for charging. Under pressure from the consumer about the
>> being fleeced for chargers with only difference being the propritary
>> connector.
>>
> I think it was actually the EU (European Community) that sort of
> persuaded them, it's only a voluntary code though.
http://blogs.wsj.com/tech-europe/2011/01/05/eu-standard-phone-charger-coming-this-year/
It's a not voluntary code though; it's an agreement between the
manufacturers and the Commission. Probably because if there hadn't been
an agreement, the Commission would have imposed a regulation.
>
>>> If these were of such poor quality that they went bad after a few
>>> hundred insertions, you can imagine the reactions of the manufacturer
>>> and owner.
>>
>> Do people keep a phone that long? People here seem to upgrade every
>> tweleve months or when ever they can twist their provider in to it.
>>
>> Personally I don't like micro USB. It's too small, doesn't self guide
>> on insertion, the orientation is non-obvious and with the lack of
>> self guidance is the thing not going together because it's miss
>> aligned or the wrong way up? Mini USB doesn't suffer those problems.
>>
> Apart from anything else it's not easy to work out the right way up,
> I'm sure lots of minor damage to plug and socket comes from attempts
> to push the plug in the wrong way up. Mini-usb is much better from
> that point of view because of its obvious shape,
accommodate a mini-usb socket.
Jeff Liebermann
Aug 21, 2014, 12:05:55 PM8/21/14
to
On Thu, 21 Aug 2014 07:18:51 +0200, Poutnik <pou...@privacy.net>
wrote:
>Dne 20.8.2014 v 23:57 Jeff Liebermann napsal(a):
>> I've torn apart a few "failed" mini and micro USB connectors, mostly
>> on cell phones. Although most of the permanent damage is from
>> breakage, a fair number of the gold contacts had the plating blown
>> off, apparently from arcing. My guess(tm) is that inserting the
>> connector with the power applied is discharging a large capacitor in
>> the power source, through the connector, to the cell phone. It
>> doesn't take many arcs to destroy the gold plating. The USB 2.0
>> specification limits the initial inrush current to 0.1A before the
>> chips negotiate to turn on the current to anywhere from 0.5A to 2A
>> maximum current. The spec also limits the size of the load
>> capacitance to 10uf. The idea is to prevent arcing. However, if the
>> power supply vendor ignores the spec, the connector contacts will fry
>> in short order.
>I instinctively plug micro USB end into a phone,
>before I plug the USB end into USB socket of PC or a charge.
That's probably un-necessary if you have a quality charger and
properly designed cell phone. 0.1A inrush current is not going to do
any damage to the gold plating. However, if you have a no-name
charger, or worse are charging from a "stiff" 5v source, it's worth
checking what the charger does. I have a USB extension cable where I
cut the heavy 5V positive wire. I put various ammeters in series to
measure current drain. Today, you can get such devices on eBay for
very little:
<http://www.ebay.com/itm/171427886388>
However, these will not show the required 0.1A inrush current limit or
any current spike caused by an oversized capacitive load. For those,
I insert a 0.1 ohm resistor (actually a length of nichrome wire).
Using a dual trace oscilloscope, I put the Ch A probe on one side of
the resistor, and the Ch B probe on the other, and the scope in
differential (A-B) mode. That's necessary because grounding the +5V
power line with the scope probe ground is not a good idea. I can post
a photo of what it should look like if anyone needs a sanity check.
Note that USB 3.0 is different. Current is now up to 900 ma and
overload protection is required:
<http://www.mouser.com/applications/usb30_circuit_protection/>
Simulation of USB 2 inrush current:
<http://www.epsilonlabs.com/USB_Inrush_I.html>
The design of the micro-USB connector system intentionally moved all
the failure prone parts to the plug. There's not much you can do to
improve or protect the receptacle on the phone end, but plenty you can
do on the cable and charger end.
There is an amazing amount of junk USB power supplies out there:
<http://www.lygte-info.dk/info/usbPowerSupplyTest%20UK.html>
The real Apple charger:
<http://www.righto.com/2012/05/apple-iphone-charger-teardown-quality.html>
and the not so real clone:
<http://www.righto.com/2012/03/inside-cheap-phone-charger-and-why-you.html>
I bought a few cheap USB car chargers on eBay, and stupidly passed
them out to friends as presents. After I looked inside, I had to run
around and confiscate them before they blew up someones phone.
<http://802.11junk.com/jeffl/LTspice/Cig%20Lighter%20USB%20charger/Circuit%20view.jpg>
Notice that there is a short across the data wires (used to fool the
phone into believing that the maximum current available). The front
has two USB jacks, labeled 2A and 0.5A. With the short, they're both
identical. I tried to build an LTspice model of the device, but
failed because couldn't identify the chip used.
I later bought some of these which are fairly cheap, and won't kill
your phone:
<http://802.11junk.com/jeffl/Powergen%20USB%20car%20charger/Powergen%20USB%20car%20charger.jpg>
wrote:
>Dne 20.8.2014 v 23:57 Jeff Liebermann napsal(a):
>> I've torn apart a few "failed" mini and micro USB connectors, mostly
>> on cell phones. Although most of the permanent damage is from
>> breakage, a fair number of the gold contacts had the plating blown
>> off, apparently from arcing. My guess(tm) is that inserting the
>> connector with the power applied is discharging a large capacitor in
>> the power source, through the connector, to the cell phone. It
>> doesn't take many arcs to destroy the gold plating. The USB 2.0
>> specification limits the initial inrush current to 0.1A before the
>> chips negotiate to turn on the current to anywhere from 0.5A to 2A
>> maximum current. The spec also limits the size of the load
>> capacitance to 10uf. The idea is to prevent arcing. However, if the
>> power supply vendor ignores the spec, the connector contacts will fry
>> in short order.
>I instinctively plug micro USB end into a phone,
>before I plug the USB end into USB socket of PC or a charge.
properly designed cell phone. 0.1A inrush current is not going to do
any damage to the gold plating. However, if you have a no-name
charger, or worse are charging from a "stiff" 5v source, it's worth
checking what the charger does. I have a USB extension cable where I
cut the heavy 5V positive wire. I put various ammeters in series to
measure current drain. Today, you can get such devices on eBay for
very little:
<http://www.ebay.com/itm/171427886388>
However, these will not show the required 0.1A inrush current limit or
any current spike caused by an oversized capacitive load. For those,
I insert a 0.1 ohm resistor (actually a length of nichrome wire).
Using a dual trace oscilloscope, I put the Ch A probe on one side of
the resistor, and the Ch B probe on the other, and the scope in
differential (A-B) mode. That's necessary because grounding the +5V
power line with the scope probe ground is not a good idea. I can post
a photo of what it should look like if anyone needs a sanity check.
Note that USB 3.0 is different. Current is now up to 900 ma and
overload protection is required:
<http://www.mouser.com/applications/usb30_circuit_protection/>
Simulation of USB 2 inrush current:
<http://www.epsilonlabs.com/USB_Inrush_I.html>
The design of the micro-USB connector system intentionally moved all
the failure prone parts to the plug. There's not much you can do to
improve or protect the receptacle on the phone end, but plenty you can
do on the cable and charger end.
There is an amazing amount of junk USB power supplies out there:
<http://www.lygte-info.dk/info/usbPowerSupplyTest%20UK.html>
The real Apple charger:
<http://www.righto.com/2012/05/apple-iphone-charger-teardown-quality.html>
and the not so real clone:
<http://www.righto.com/2012/03/inside-cheap-phone-charger-and-why-you.html>
I bought a few cheap USB car chargers on eBay, and stupidly passed
them out to friends as presents. After I looked inside, I had to run
around and confiscate them before they blew up someones phone.
<http://802.11junk.com/jeffl/LTspice/Cig%20Lighter%20USB%20charger/Circuit%20view.jpg>
Notice that there is a short across the data wires (used to fool the
phone into believing that the maximum current available). The front
has two USB jacks, labeled 2A and 0.5A. With the short, they're both
identical. I tried to build an LTspice model of the device, but
failed because couldn't identify the chip used.
I later bought some of these which are fairly cheap, and won't kill
your phone:
<http://802.11junk.com/jeffl/Powergen%20USB%20car%20charger/Powergen%20USB%20car%20charger.jpg>
Jeff Liebermann
Aug 21, 2014, 12:10:23 PM8/21/14
to
On Thu, 21 Aug 2014 14:56:22 +1000, "Rod Speed"
<rod.sp...@gmail.com> wrote:
>I effectively do that test when I drive between major towns.
Just try the foil wrapped box test and see for yourself. I think
<rod.sp...@gmail.com> wrote:
>I effectively do that test when I drive between major towns.
you'll be unpleasantly surprised. If you don't want to run the
battery to total discharge, just run it for a few hours an look at the
percent charge remaining on whatever battery monitor application you
have available, and extrapolate the results.
Incidentally, don't try using an (unplugged) microwave oven for this
test. They leak too much at cellular frequencies.
Jeff Liebermann
Aug 21, 2014, 12:27:45 PM8/21/14
to
On Thu, 21 Aug 2014 10:43:54 +0000 (UTC), Avraham Bernholz
<Avraham....@gmail.com> wrote:
>cl wrote, on Thu, 21 Aug 2014 09:19:06 +0100:
>
>> I'm sure lots of minor damage to plug and socket comes from attempts
>> to push the plug in the wrong way up.
>
>I put a dab of the wife's pink nail polish on the USB top of the
>connectors, and, in the case of the less obvious device ports, on the
>device itself, where the pink dots are to be visually matched *before*
>one plugs in the connector.
Or, just buy a cable with a connector that fits both ways:
<Avraham....@gmail.com> wrote:
>cl wrote, on Thu, 21 Aug 2014 09:19:06 +0100:
>
>> I'm sure lots of minor damage to plug and socket comes from attempts
>> to push the plug in the wrong way up.
>
>I put a dab of the wife's pink nail polish on the USB top of the
>connectors, and, in the case of the less obvious device ports, on the
>device itself, where the pink dots are to be visually matched *before*
>one plugs in the connector.
<http://flipperusb.com>
Too bad it's only available for the large USB connector.
Or, just wait for the new Type C USB connector, which is reversible:
<http://www.forbes.com/sites/gordonkelly/2014/08/18/usb-type-c-guide/>
>So, at least in "my" situation, that's not why the USB nibs are failing.
>I think it's a bad batch of cables from Frys.
it's nice and shiny gold, you win. If it looks dark and dingy, like
some of the base metal is showing through the plating, it's much too
thinly plated.
Strictly speaking, the USB connector system is a bad joke. Ask any
connector or switch manufacturer about switching DC with a gold plated
connector and they'll cringe. Gold plating is suppose to be for "dry"
loads (i.e. no DC). If one must run DC through a gold connector, the
power is suppose to be disconnected and all caps are suppose to be
discharged. For "live" loads, one is suppose to use silver. However,
the USB connector has both a dry data load, and a live DC power load.
Therefore, we see all the inrush current protection on the DC pins.
<https://www.nkkswitches.com/pdf/switchcontactmaterial.pdf>
Before you declare your cables to be junk, you might want to run some
bench tests with your five(?) assorted power supplies under various
load conditions. Also check what they do for inrush current. My
guess is that at least one of them will be problematic and possibly
the culprit.
The thin USB cables may actually be an improvement. The higher
resistance wire might reduce the inrush current a little. For short
circuit protection, they'll probably make a tolerable fuse. I'm too
lazy to do the calcs and measure the wire gauge.
The Real Bev
Aug 21, 2014, 2:08:33 PM8/21/14
to
On 08/20/2014 05:47 AM, Chris Uppal wrote:
> Avraham Bernholz wrote:
>
>> > Sounds like you got some of a bad batch of cables.
>>
>> I wonder if there is a way to tell if a cable is good
>> *before* you buy it?
>
> Price ? Brand ? If the cable comes from a supplier with enough of a name to
> care about quality control (and therefore test the stuff they get from the
> /actual/ supplier) then that's probably the best you can do. In particular if
> it comes from a brand that you have had good quality (not necessarily premium
> priced) stuff from before.
I bought a number of extension cables at the 99-Cents-Only Store a
couple of years ago. Belkin, transparent plastic covering what looked
like braided metal, lighted ends. Same package that I saw a few weeks
later at Fry's for ~$14.00. I should have bought more of them, but the
ones I buy from DealExtreme work just as well.
> Perhaps also a visual inspection of the overall build quality will tell you
> something about the quality control, but it's difficult to see how to apply
> that effectively to something as simple as USB cables.
--
Cheers, Bev
@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@
This is Usenet. We *are* the trained body for dealing
with psychotics. -- A. Dingley
> Avraham Bernholz wrote:
>
>> > Sounds like you got some of a bad batch of cables.
>>
>> I wonder if there is a way to tell if a cable is good
>> *before* you buy it?
>
> Price ? Brand ? If the cable comes from a supplier with enough of a name to
> care about quality control (and therefore test the stuff they get from the
> /actual/ supplier) then that's probably the best you can do. In particular if
> it comes from a brand that you have had good quality (not necessarily premium
> priced) stuff from before.
I bought a number of extension cables at the 99-Cents-Only Store a
couple of years ago. Belkin, transparent plastic covering what looked
like braided metal, lighted ends. Same package that I saw a few weeks
later at Fry's for ~$14.00. I should have bought more of them, but the
ones I buy from DealExtreme work just as well.
> Perhaps also a visual inspection of the overall build quality will tell you
> something about the quality control, but it's difficult to see how to apply
> that effectively to something as simple as USB cables.
--
Cheers, Bev
@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@
This is Usenet. We *are* the trained body for dealing
with psychotics. -- A. Dingley
The Real Bev
Aug 21, 2014, 2:13:43 PM8/21/14
to
On 08/20/2014 11:03 AM, Michael A. Terrell wrote:
>
> Avraham Bernholz wrote:
> green, so they'll be easy to spot, when I need one. :)
The 99-Cents-Only store had orange ones :-) They also had a variety of
skins for one of the Apple or Samsung phones which ALMOST fit my BLU --
I gave the skin to my granddaughter, who has used it for months.
>
> Avraham Bernholz wrote:
>>
>> Chris Uppal wrote, on Wed, 20 Aug 2014 13:47:03 +0100:
>>
>> > Price ? Brand ?
>>
>> I don't have the original shrinkwrap, but it was generic
>> Frys stuff. I will have to go back and look at the brand,
>> but, how does *that* help?
>>
>> Let's say the brand is "made in China" stuff?
>> Is that necessarily better or worse than "made in anywhere else"
>> stuff?
>>
>> Chris Uppal wrote, on Wed, 20 Aug 2014 13:47:03 +0100:
>>
>> > Price ? Brand ?
>>
>> I don't have the original shrinkwrap, but it was generic
>> Frys stuff. I will have to go back and look at the brand,
>> but, how does *that* help?
>>
>> Let's say the brand is "made in China" stuff?
>> Is that necessarily better or worse than "made in anywhere else"
>> stuff?
>>
>> I'm sure if the brand were "Belken", it would be good, but,
>> I think this was just generic stuff. Why should something as
>> simple as a cable need to be name brand anyway?
>>
>> I think this was just generic stuff. Why should something as
>> simple as a cable need to be name brand anyway?
>>
>> And, what is a name brand (other than Belken) anyway, for
>> cables?
>
> I just bought some from Dollar Tree for $1 each. They are bright
>> cables?
>
> green, so they'll be easy to spot, when I need one. :)
The 99-Cents-Only store had orange ones :-) They also had a variety of
skins for one of the Apple or Samsung phones which ALMOST fit my BLU --
I gave the skin to my granddaughter, who has used it for months.
Rod Speed
Aug 21, 2014, 4:18:57 PM8/21/14
to
news:r34cv9hem2sue4gvo...@4ax.com...
Where are you getting those from ?
Jeff Liebermann
Aug 21, 2014, 5:03:09 PM8/21/14
to
On Fri, 22 Aug 2014 06:18:57 +1000, "Rod Speed"
<rod.sp...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> I later bought some of these which are fairly cheap, and won't kill
>> your phone:
>> <http://802.11junk.com/jeffl/Powergen%20USB%20car%20charger/Powergen%20USB%20car%20charger.jpg>
>Where are you getting those from ?
Amazon and eBay. Available in white and Darth Vader black:
<rod.sp...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> I later bought some of these which are fairly cheap, and won't kill
>> your phone:
>> <http://802.11junk.com/jeffl/Powergen%20USB%20car%20charger/Powergen%20USB%20car%20charger.jpg>
>Where are you getting those from ?
<http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0088U6OZY>
<http://www.ebay.com/itm/131257596903>
<http://tips.navas.us/2014/01/best-usb-car-charger.html>
<https://www.google.com/search?tbm=isch&q=powergen+usb+car+charger>
Grumble... I paid $15 and now the price is $10. Oh well.
The Real Bev
Aug 21, 2014, 6:56:39 PM8/21/14
to
On 08/20/2014 12:56 PM, Avraham Bernholz wrote:
> Michael A. Terrell wrote, on Wed, 20 Aug 2014 14:02:13 -0400:
>
>> Replace the connectors, they are cheap enough.
>
> I also have to replace the Duracell USB wall charger I bought
> from Frys, as it just fell apart in my hands today!
I'm getting bummed out on Duracell chargers and rechargeables. Several
years ago (maybe 2008) I bought a set of the precharged Duracells --
supposed to maintain a charge while sitting on a shelf for nearly a year
-- and the spares (charged at the same time as the ones in my camera)
are dead when the ones I've been using in my camera die. The Duracell
charger (the BIG one!) stopped working within 2 years. I now carry more
Kirkland AAs with me Just In Case.
Are the Eneloops any better?
--
Cheers, Bev
==========================================================
"It's no piece of cake, but it sure beats listening to Ted
Kennedy on the Senate floor."
- Jesse Helms describing heart surgery
> Michael A. Terrell wrote, on Wed, 20 Aug 2014 14:02:13 -0400:
>
>> Replace the connectors, they are cheap enough.
>
> I also have to replace the Duracell USB wall charger I bought
> from Frys, as it just fell apart in my hands today!
I'm getting bummed out on Duracell chargers and rechargeables. Several
years ago (maybe 2008) I bought a set of the precharged Duracells --
supposed to maintain a charge while sitting on a shelf for nearly a year
-- and the spares (charged at the same time as the ones in my camera)
are dead when the ones I've been using in my camera die. The Duracell
charger (the BIG one!) stopped working within 2 years. I now carry more
Kirkland AAs with me Just In Case.
Are the Eneloops any better?
--
Cheers, Bev
==========================================================
"It's no piece of cake, but it sure beats listening to Ted
Kennedy on the Senate floor."
- Jesse Helms describing heart surgery
The Real Bev
Aug 21, 2014, 7:35:20 PM8/21/14
to
On 08/20/2014 07:08 PM, Avraham Bernholz wrote:
> Ralph Mowery wrote, on Wed, 20 Aug 2014 18:41:59 -0400:
>
>> That is why I asked why the origional poster was plugging
>> in about 3 to 10 times a day.
>
> I never formally measured how many times I plug in a day,
> but, for the smartphone, it's at least 3 to 5 times a day.
>
> For example, I get in the car, and plug in the phone (otherwise
> the battery will die with the GPS running). I use the GPS and
> go to the store (I use the GPS with traffic all the time, even
> if I know where I'm going).
Do you feed in the store as a destination? If not, how does it have any
> Ralph Mowery wrote, on Wed, 20 Aug 2014 18:41:59 -0400:
>
>> That is why I asked why the origional poster was plugging
>> in about 3 to 10 times a day.
>
> I never formally measured how many times I plug in a day,
> but, for the smartphone, it's at least 3 to 5 times a day.
>
> For example, I get in the car, and plug in the phone (otherwise
> the battery will die with the GPS running). I use the GPS and
> go to the store (I use the GPS with traffic all the time, even
> if I know where I'm going).
beter idea of traffic than you do by looking out the window? Or are you
using one of the Sigalert/511 apps?
> I get out of the car at the store and bring my phone.
> Back from the store, I plug her back in.
> Off to my next errand.
>
> Then, I get to work (let's say), and pull it again, and then plug
> it into the work USB cable. Each time I run to a meeting, I unplug
> it (the darn thing only lasts a few hours and I've been caught
> dead too many times).
>
> Then, it's off to lunch, and we plug it back in at the car, and
> back off, and then back at work we plug in, and off, etc.
>
> Back at home, we run the same routine. So, the total number of
> plugs in and out is easily about 20 a day (or so), but only about
> five or ten on any one cable.
>
> If the battery would last all day, that would be a different
> story, but it won't last more than a few hours.
less than 30% and then giving it a full charge rather than keeping it
topped up. What do you think?
--
Cheers, Bev
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
666�F -- the oven temperature for roast beast.
The Real Bev
Aug 21, 2014, 7:50:35 PM8/21/14
to
from DealExtreme.
http://www.dx.com/s/USB%2bcables?category=312
There have been problems with some items right out of the box -- PS2 to
USB keyboard connectors, and a never-could-have-worked
mp3-player-to-cassettte adapter. I emailed them and sent photos of the
items in question, and they credited me immediately.
The disadvantage, of course, is the 2-3 week shipping time. Big deal
:-) They now sell some stuff out of their warehouse in California with
much faster delivery, but if they're doing it legally they'll charge
sales tax on that stuff, and I believe in avoiding sales tax whenever
possible.
Jeff Liebermann
Aug 21, 2014, 8:20:43 PM8/21/14
to
On Thu, 21 Aug 2014 15:56:39 -0700, The Real Bev
<bashl...@gmail.com> wrote:
>Are the Eneloops any better?
Yes. I use them in my various cameras. Hardly any self-discharge
<bashl...@gmail.com> wrote:
>Are the Eneloops any better?
after many months.
Chris Uppal
Aug 22, 2014, 9:26:08 AM8/22/14
to
Avraham Bernholz wrote:
> Roxgo, http://www.roxgo.com,
> Manufactured and exported by Zendex, Inc, South El Monte, CA 91733,
> Made in China, UPC 851556004031
So you got the cables from Fry's, who got them from Roxgo, who got them from
> Roxgo, http://www.roxgo.com,
> Manufactured and exported by Zendex, Inc, South El Monte, CA 91733,
> Made in China, UPC 851556004031
Zendex, who may be the US marketing arm of a Chinese factory (or group), or may
be another middleman sourcing cables (etc) from whichever Chinese factory is
cheapest in any given week...
It seems that either you got rare a rouge batch, or that that entire supply
chain doesn't include /anyone/ who cares as much about quality control as I'd
prefer :(
-- chris
Michael A. Terrell
Aug 22, 2014, 10:30:02 AM8/22/14
to
The Real Bev wrote:
>
> Michael A. Terrell wrote:
> >
> > I just bought some from Dollar Tree for $1 each. They are bright
> > green so they'll be easy to spot, when I need one. :)
> Michael A. Terrell wrote:
> >
> > I just bought some from Dollar Tree for $1 each. They are bright
>
> The 99-Cents-Only store had orange ones :-)
I was hoping for bright red. :)
> The 99-Cents-Only store had orange ones :-)
I had someone claim that the BNC cables I used on a job were his. I
asked him where he bought the green RG/58. His jaw was just hanging
open as I left with my tools and cables.
--
Anyone wanting to run for any political office in the US should have to
have a DD214, and a honorable discharge.
Michael A. Terrell
Aug 22, 2014, 11:04:41 AM8/22/14
to
Avraham Bernholz wrote:
>
> Michael A. Terrell wrote, on Wed, 20 Aug 2014 14:02:13 -0400:
>
> > Replace the connectors, they are cheap enough.
>
> And, at 5 cents each, no less.
10/.99 = $.099 each, not $.05. Shipping was 79 cents, for a total of
$1.78. The 10 I bought just arrived.
> How can they possibly make money selling those micro usb connectors
> for 5 cents each, with shipping from Szechuan China being 80 cents?
>
> BTW, are they crimp on? Glue on? Solder on? What?
> http://www.ebay.com/itm/121338466227
Solder, like Rod stated.
Andy Burns
Aug 22, 2014, 1:44:26 PM8/22/14
to
Chris Uppal wrote:
> It seems that either you got rare a rouge batch
I thought someone wanted orange, not red ...
> It seems that either you got rare a rouge batch
Chris Uppal
Aug 22, 2014, 2:35:25 PM8/22/14
to
Ta
-- chris
Avraham Bernholz
Aug 22, 2014, 10:31:59 PM8/22/14
to
Chris Uppal wrote, on Fri, 22 Aug 2014 14:26:08 +0100:
> It seems that either you got rare a rouge batch, or that that entire
> supply chain doesn't include /anyone/ who cares as much about quality
> control
I suspect it's the latter as Frys was selling them cheap.
> It seems that either you got rare a rouge batch, or that that entire
> supply chain doesn't include /anyone/ who cares as much about quality
> control
I do remember one failing right off the bat, and they replaced it without
even looking at it, which is odd, for Frys (who is usually a pain to
return stuff to).
So, I now conclude they are used to getting *these* cables back.
Too bad Frys has such a short warranty period (something like two weeks
or so).
The Real Bev
Aug 23, 2014, 12:04:38 AM8/23/14
to
On 08/22/2014 07:31 PM, Avraham Bernholz wrote:
> Chris Uppal wrote, on Fri, 22 Aug 2014 14:26:08 +0100:
>
>> It seems that either you got rare a rouge batch, or that that entire
>> supply chain doesn't include /anyone/ who cares as much about quality
>> control
>
> I suspect it's the latter as Frys was selling them cheap.
>
> I do remember one failing right off the bat, and they replaced it without
> even looking at it, which is odd, for Frys (who is usually a pain to
> return stuff to).
The Burbank and Industry stores have been OK about returning stuff,
> Chris Uppal wrote, on Fri, 22 Aug 2014 14:26:08 +0100:
>
>> It seems that either you got rare a rouge batch, or that that entire
>> supply chain doesn't include /anyone/ who cares as much about quality
>> control
>
> I suspect it's the latter as Frys was selling them cheap.
>
> I do remember one failing right off the bat, and they replaced it without
> even looking at it, which is odd, for Frys (who is usually a pain to
> return stuff to).
which is good because we've returned a LOT of stuff. They clearly sell
a lot of questionable stuff, but the prices are frequently so good that
we're willing to risk it. Over the years we're clearly ahead of the
game, even taking the cost of gas for the return trip into account.
> So, I now conclude they are used to getting *these* cables back.
> Too bad Frys has such a short warranty period (something like two weeks
> or so).
--
Cheers, Bev
$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$
Don't tax me. Don't tax thee. Tax that man behind the tree.
Dave Liquorice
Aug 23, 2014, 5:59:22 AM8/23/14
to
On Thu, 21 Aug 2014 07:28:51 +0200, Poutnik wrote:
>> I don't get that effect with mine. I do drive between towns in
rural
>> areas with no coverage between them and don't find that I see a
much
>> reduced time on battery in that situation and I leave the GPS,
wifi and
>> bluetooth on all the time too.
>
> Perhaps there is difference between no coverage ( phone may give up, not
> listening any tower ) ...
>> I don't get that effect with mine. I do drive between towns in
rural
>> areas with no coverage between them and don't find that I see a
much
>> reduced time on battery in that situation and I leave the GPS,
wifi and
>> bluetooth on all the time too.
>
> Perhaps there is difference between no coverage ( phone may give up, not
Yep, nothing to talk to they don't try. Getting the damn thing to
wake back up when you know you are back in coverage can be PITA.
> ... and weak coverage ( phone tries to communicate by high power
> to weak signals of distant/terrain shielded towers ).
Going in or out of coverage be that coverage weak or strong really
drains the battery as the thing is constantly logging in, losing
tignal, getting it back, logging in again, etc etc. If this is
happening in a weak signal area the drain is higher as the phone will
crank up it's output.
--
Cheers
Dave.
Rod Speed
Aug 23, 2014, 3:12:53 PM8/23/14
to
Poutnik <pou...@privacy.net> wrote
> Rod Speed wrote
>> I don't get that effect with mine. I do drive between towns
>> in rural areas with no coverage between them and don't
>> find that I see a much reduced time on battery in that
>> situation and I leave the GPS, wifi and bluetooth on all
>> the time too.
> Perhaps there is difference between no coverage
> ( phone may give up, not listening any tower )
That doesn't happen. If it did, it wouldn't see coverage return
when you get to the next town that does have a tower.
> and weak coverage ( phone tries to communicate by high
> power to weak signals of distant/terrain shielded towers ).
It always does that, because coverage will return
eventually when you are driving around in a car.
> I remember my old Siemens feature phone M50 lasted
> usually 4 days. But in the mountains with bad coverage,
> it was drained in few hours of whole day ski trip.
Like I say, I don't get that effect with mine.
> Rod Speed wrote
>> I don't get that effect with mine. I do drive between towns
>> in rural areas with no coverage between them and don't
>> find that I see a much reduced time on battery in that
>> situation and I leave the GPS, wifi and bluetooth on all
>> the time too.
> Perhaps there is difference between no coverage
> ( phone may give up, not listening any tower )
when you get to the next town that does have a tower.
> and weak coverage ( phone tries to communicate by high
> power to weak signals of distant/terrain shielded towers ).
eventually when you are driving around in a car.
> I remember my old Siemens feature phone M50 lasted
> usually 4 days. But in the mountains with bad coverage,
> it was drained in few hours of whole day ski trip.
Like I say, I don't get that effect with mine.
Poutnik
Aug 24, 2014, 1:34:29 AM8/24/14
to
Dne 23.8.2014 v 11:59 Dave Liquorice napsal(a):
I usually set a phone for airplane mode in such areas, to save battery.
Good thing is that GPS receiver works in that mode as well,
as it is not transmitter.
--
Poutnik
Wise man guards the words he says,
as they may say about him more,
than he says about the subject.
Good thing is that GPS receiver works in that mode as well,
as it is not transmitter.
--
Poutnik
Wise man guards the words he says,
as they may say about him more,
than he says about the subject.
Michael Black
Aug 24, 2014, 7:33:32 PM8/24/14
to
On Thu, 21 Aug 2014, The Real Bev wrote:
> On 08/20/2014 11:03 AM, Michael A. Terrell wrote:
>>
>> Avraham Bernholz wrote:
>>>
>>> Chris Uppal wrote, on Wed, 20 Aug 2014 13:47:03 +0100:
>>>
>>> > Price ? Brand ?
>>>
>>> I don't have the original shrinkwrap, but it was generic
>>> Frys stuff. I will have to go back and look at the brand,
>>> but, how does *that* help?
>>>
>>> Let's say the brand is "made in China" stuff?
>>> Is that necessarily better or worse than "made in anywhere else"
>>> stuff?
>>>
>>> I'm sure if the brand were "Belken", it would be good, but,
>>> I think this was just generic stuff. Why should something as
>>> simple as a cable need to be name brand anyway?
>>>
>>> And, what is a name brand (other than Belken) anyway, for
>>> cables?
>>
>> I just bought some from Dollar Tree for $1 each. They are bright
>> green, so they'll be easy to spot, when I need one. :)
>
> The 99-Cents-Only store had orange ones :-) They also had a variety of skins
> for one of the Apple or Samsung phones which ALMOST fit my BLU -- I gave the
> skin to my granddaughter, who has used it for months.
>
I had never seen anything but black (and of course, iPod cables in white).
> On 08/20/2014 11:03 AM, Michael A. Terrell wrote:
>>
>> Avraham Bernholz wrote:
>>>
>>> Chris Uppal wrote, on Wed, 20 Aug 2014 13:47:03 +0100:
>>>
>>> > Price ? Brand ?
>>>
>>> I don't have the original shrinkwrap, but it was generic
>>> Frys stuff. I will have to go back and look at the brand,
>>> but, how does *that* help?
>>>
>>> Let's say the brand is "made in China" stuff?
>>> Is that necessarily better or worse than "made in anywhere else"
>>> stuff?
>>>
>>> I'm sure if the brand were "Belken", it would be good, but,
>>> I think this was just generic stuff. Why should something as
>>> simple as a cable need to be name brand anyway?
>>>
>>> And, what is a name brand (other than Belken) anyway, for
>>> cables?
>>
>> I just bought some from Dollar Tree for $1 each. They are bright
>> green, so they'll be easy to spot, when I need one. :)
>
> The 99-Cents-Only store had orange ones :-) They also had a variety of skins
> for one of the Apple or Samsung phones which ALMOST fit my BLU -- I gave the
> skin to my granddaughter, who has used it for months.
>
But I was looking for something in a chain drugstore yesterday, and
suddenly notice they have colored microUSB cables for 3.99. Not dollar
store pricing, but kind of handy to know. I try to grab them when I see
them in the garbage or in 25cent bins at garage sales, but I keep
misplacing them.
And some color would be nice.
Michael
Michael A. Terrell
Aug 25, 2014, 12:42:29 AM8/25/14
to
Kees Nuyt
Aug 25, 2014, 4:55:39 PM8/25/14
to
>I instinctively plug micro USB end into a phone,
>before I plug the USB end into USB socket of PC or a charge.
Same here.
>before I plug the USB end into USB socket of PC or a charge.
It's my general rule: Plug in the most fragile first, the least
fragile last.
This is what I tell my girlfriend ...
Start charging:
1. Plug micro USB into phone/tablet
2. Plug USB A into charger
3. Plug charger into mains
or
1. Plug micro USB into phone
2. Plug USB A into laptop
And after charging:
1. Unplug charger from mains
2. Unplug USB A from charger
3. Unplug micro USB from phone/tablet
or
1. Unplug USB A from laptop
2. Unplug micro USB from phone/tablet
Never had a USB cable fail on me.
--
Kees Nuyt
Aaron2
Aug 25, 2014, 7:05:34 PM8/25/14
to
Kees Nuyt <k.n...@nospam.demon.nl> wrote:
>Poutnik <pou...@privacy.net>>wrote:
>>I instinctively plug micro USB end into a phone,
>>before I plug the USB end into USB socket of PC or a charge.
>
>Same here.
>
>It's my general rule: Plug in the most fragile first, the least
>fragile last.
Way too much hassle. Just leave the cable and charger plugged in all
>Poutnik <pou...@privacy.net>>wrote:
>>I instinctively plug micro USB end into a phone,
>>before I plug the USB end into USB socket of PC or a charge.
>
>Same here.
>
>It's my general rule: Plug in the most fragile first, the least
>fragile last.
the time. The micro end still receives the same number of inserts.
>Never had a USB cable fail on me.
Ron
Aug 26, 2014, 4:31:07 PM8/26/14
to
On 8/20/2014 2:03 PM, Michael A. Terrell wrote:
>
> Avraham Bernholz wrote:
>>
>> Chris Uppal wrote, on Wed, 20 Aug 2014 13:47:03 +0100:
>>
>>> Price ? Brand ?
>>
>> I don't have the original shrinkwrap, but it was generic
>> Frys stuff. I will have to go back and look at the brand,
>> but, how does *that* help?
>>
>> Let's say the brand is "made in China" stuff?
>> Is that necessarily better or worse than "made in anywhere else"
>> stuff?
>>
>> I'm sure if the brand were "Belken", it would be good, but,
>> I think this was just generic stuff. Why should something as
>> simple as a cable need to be name brand anyway?
>>
>> And, what is a name brand (other than Belken) anyway, for
>> cables?
>
>
> I just bought some from Dollar Tree for $1 each. They are bright
> green, so they'll be easy to spot, when I need one. :)
>
>
Just bought some?
>
> Avraham Bernholz wrote:
>>
>> Chris Uppal wrote, on Wed, 20 Aug 2014 13:47:03 +0100:
>>
>>> Price ? Brand ?
>>
>> I don't have the original shrinkwrap, but it was generic
>> Frys stuff. I will have to go back and look at the brand,
>> but, how does *that* help?
>>
>> Let's say the brand is "made in China" stuff?
>> Is that necessarily better or worse than "made in anywhere else"
>> stuff?
>>
>> I'm sure if the brand were "Belken", it would be good, but,
>> I think this was just generic stuff. Why should something as
>> simple as a cable need to be name brand anyway?
>>
>> And, what is a name brand (other than Belken) anyway, for
>> cables?
>
>
> I just bought some from Dollar Tree for $1 each. They are bright
> green, so they'll be easy to spot, when I need one. :)
>
>
I don't see any USB cables listed using their search engine.
http://www.dollartree.com/catalog/search.cmd?form_state=searchForm&keyword=usb%20cable
Maybe it's just a product that they occasionally have so it isn't listed
on their website?
Also, are the cables data cables or are they for charging only?
Michael A. Terrell
Aug 26, 2014, 4:46:13 PM8/26/14
to
are data cables. There are four or five stores around here, and one is
close to the grocery store I use. Another is next to the harbor Freight
store, and a third near Office Depot. The others are further than it's
worth to drive to, for a couple $1 items
Ron
Aug 26, 2014, 5:51:30 PM8/26/14
to
0 new messages