On Sat, 12 Feb 2022 17:39:08 +0000, Andy Burns wrote:
> If you download the image to a PC, you have to use ADB to sideload it to the
> phone over USB, but if you download the image to the phone itself, you don't
> need to use usb, the bootloader can flash itself.
I love to learn, and therefore, whenever I read anything, a million
questions come to the fore (which I have to stifle), where, in this case of
adb, I was wondering why a PC might be needed, so I'm glad that it isn't.
I wouldn't be asking for clarification if I wasn't trying to figure it out.
>> Full, in this sense means some value of "full" which is as yet unknown.
> The difference between a full OTA and a factory image, is that the latter can
> only be installed by wiping the phone, the former leaves user data intact.
Ah, again, thanks. That makes too much sense. I'm ignorant of this stuff.
Hence I do appreciate your clarifications as I have never owned a Pixel.
(I have a T-Mobile Nexus 5 somewhere, but I can't find it.)
The fact you have the Pixel 3 is perfect because you're in the best position
to answer the question of the SUBJECT of this thread, which is the focus.
a. Android version ==> this has likely ended already for the Pixel 3
b. Android security patch version ==> this likely just ended for the Pixel 3
c. Google Play system update version ==> but _when_ does this end?
> The difference between a full OTA and a delta OTA, is that a full one can be
> installed by the user, but it only makes sense to install the correct delta
> between the current installed version and the newly available version.
What is most important to flesh out the SUBJECT of this thread is for you to
let us know if you can keep installing the project Mainline modules over the
"Google Play System Update" Mechanism.
I'm not even sure if the Google Play System Update mechanism can be
controlled manually or not. Can it?
When there are no longer those OTA zip files on that URL waiting for you:
My question to you, moving forward, is:
*How do you plan on updating the Google Play System Update version?*
>> a. Android version update <== It seems that the "full" OTA includes this
>> b. Android security patch update <== The "full" OTA seems to include this
>> c. Google Play system update <== But does the "full" OTA also include this?
> I would suspect so, e.g. the ART and associated libraries, but we were never told.
Ah. Yes. I forgot. You said prior that the ART updated, and we _know_
they're part of Android 12's Mainline (and not in Android 11's Mainline).
The question for us to figure out, for the future, now that your OTA zip
files ended, is how to update the Google Play System Update version moving
a. Do you manually update the Google Play System Update moving forward?
b. Or will Google push it to you somehow over the net?
I do not know the answer but your Pixel 3 is in the perfect position to find
out (it may take a few months though as a Pixel3 only reached EOL recently).
> crosshatch=pixel3XL blueline=pixel3, but yes
BTW, what confused me a lot is you kept using "OTA" but, in reality, nothing
was being done "over the air". It was all done over the net.
That confused me.
> Yes, pixel owners are used to a single, monthly update, sometimes it's a few 10s
> of MB, other times it's over 1 GB.
Thank you for making me aware of that. It's a nice Pixel feature, for sure
that you can download an "OTA" file over the net and install it at will.
> When my previous phone (Nexus5X) reached end of life, that was that, brick wall,
> no such thing as "one final update" a few months later, no core updates to
> firmware via play, so I bought a new phone and gave the old one to my Dad,
> despite being 3 years old it had newer firmware than his.
This is an important point _if_ Google updates the Project Mainline stuff
forever (or some version of forever, meaning there is no stated EOL date).
For example, on my iPad, Safari is updated with the iOS version, so when
they no longer update the iOS version, that's the end of Safari updates.
But, poignantly so, Chrome is _not_ updated with the Android OS version, so,
on my Android phone, no matter which Android version I have (about
4.something I think it is), Chrome can be updated by the user unilaterally.
My point is that Nexus5X wasn't as doomed as it would have been had it been
an iPad in so much as it still can update most of Android.
Just not the version & security patches.
Maybe that Nexus5X can _still_ get the project mainline files.
That is the question in the SUBJECT line after all.
> The play update mechanism appears to have changed in the past three months,
> either in practice, or in terms of visibility, it sounds encouraging, for those
> of us with phones > 3 years old, if it keeps them "somewhat" up to date within
> the same major version, rather than left to rot.
That's my whole point.
As far as I know, Google has not stated any EOL date for the Project
Mainline two dozen core modules. And Google donates them to the AOSP.
Depending on what portion of Android those two dozen core modules comprise,
that would mean that _much_ of Android is still updated, even when the
Android version and security patches are no longer available for that phone.
Your Pixel 3 is beautifully positioned to figure this out for the team.
> I'm not convinced that google will actually be providing any fixes outside the
> core components, e.g. no qualcomm driver fixes (SoC, GPS, audio, camera, GPU
> DRM, codecs, sensors) that have also been updated monthly by the OTA.
I'm not sure.
That's really the SUBJECT after all.
Bear in mind I equate Project Treble with Project Mainline which "assumes"
Qualcomm does their part (treble) as does Google (mainline) to update us.
Again, you're perfectly positioned to figure that out for the team.
> After all why would they set a 3 year life, and then at the end of that life,
> still go on providing device specific fixes? The core components, yes I can see
> they have to produce them anyway, so slipping them out to all phones is a
> benefit that doesn't cost them much.
That statement confuses me a bit because I agree that it's likely something
like this for your Pixel 3... where this is my current guess
1. Android version ==> Your pixel 3 is forever stuck on Android 12
2. Android security patches ==> Your pixel 3 is forever done with the latest
3. Google Play System Updates ==> As far as I know, this has no EOL date
Assuming #3 is correct, the only question is _how_ we get those updates.
>> Is that right?
> With pixels, I think they have always come over the net
I see now, embarrassingly belatedly, whenever you and Bob Martin were
discussing "OTA", you always meant that you get those zip file over the net.
It's my fault for assuming you meant "over the air" so that's why you see me
confused when you think you've explained it clearly.
To me OTA had meant over the air; not over the net.
I apologize for my mistake.
>> Please do keep an eye on what happens to these three specific versions:
>> a. Android version
>> b. Android security patch version
>> c. Google Play system update version
> yes, I've taken screenshots of the version numbers that are exposed, I wish
> there was more specific version info was available, I tried inware but it's not
> much more detail.
Ah. I see.
*Inware* by evowizz (rated 4.4)
I never saw Inware in my searches as my filters filter out anything that
requires GSF (which Inware does). No big deal though. I'll download it.
I already use a few like this but I will try the "inware" app and compare.
*Device Info HW* by Andrey Efremov (rated 4.6)
Very few people post screenshots so I'm ecstatic that you did so.
Thank you for that screenshot which says:
a. Android version = 12
b. Security patch version = 5 October 2021 (you explained why it's oct)
c. Google Play System Update version = 2022-01-01 S+ (311323004)
InWare for me says the following version information on the Galaxy A32-5G.
a. Android version = 11
b. Security patch version = November 1, 2021
c. Google Play System Update version = 2021-06-01 (302001200)
However, Device Info HW for me uses different languages & values:
a. Android version = 11
b. Security = 01.11.21
c. Google Play Services = 21.48.15 (150400-414534850)
d. JavaVM = ART 2.1.0 (this is the Android runtime environment, I think)
Note that I'm unusually set up in that I have most Google modules disabled.
Hence I'll always be farther behind than others in these patch levels.
>> As far as I know, Google hasn't published an EOL date for the "Google Play
>> System Updates" (have they?), so it's important to us that you keep us
>> informed since you are on the exact right hardware to help us figure that
>> out (which is, after all, the answer we seek).
> I expect it'll roll on and on, at least until they jump to a new runtime like
> they did for dalvik->art
This is my suspicion too, which is that Google hasn't publicized any EOL
date for the project mainline core modules, just like they don't usually
publish an EOL date for the Chrome browser.
That means, as far as we know, it's "forever" for some value of forever.
It's up to you pixel 3 owners to tell us how long "forever" turns out to be!
One question I'm still confused about because all this time when you said
OTA I thought you meant over the air (not over the net) is this one.
Q: In the future, how do you plan on _manually_ updating the
"Google Play System Update version" ???