What exactly is going on with the "geogebra" math app on the various platforms (iOS, Android, Linux)?

[Danny D.]

Something fishy happened when I tried to download the supposedly
free Geogebra math graphing app today, on Android, that didn't
happen on iOS nor on Linux:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/GeoGebra

On my old iPad, Geogebra from the App Store installed just fine.
On a new hteacher's new MacBook Air, Geogebra installed just fine.
On Linux, it installed just fine (sudo apt-get install geogebra).

Yet, on Android, a search in the Google Play store doesn't
even *find* it (when we know it's a free app for all platforms):
https://c2.staticflickr.com/6/5583/15043651150_2bd1ba4ed1_z.jpg

When I go to the geogebra.org web site from Firefox on Android,
the download page has a "Google Play" button and a Goegebra
*Chrome* app! (what's the difference?)
https://c2.staticflickr.com/6/5581/15043651080_4690e42a37_z.jpg

Clicking the "Google Play" button on that web page, I can
press a green "Install" (which implies it's a free app):
https://c2.staticflickr.com/6/5561/15043650950_239ca05061_z.jpg

But then, I get this odd screen which says, for the first
time ever for me, "In order to purchase GeoGebra, you must
sign in. Please sign in to continue" :
(which I never had seen before, at least on Android):
https://c4.staticflickr.com/4/3913/15230333695_b8559f022d_z.jpg

Note: I've had the Android phone for years, and I don't even
know what the sign-in password is anymore, simply because it
has never been needed before. Why would I need it now?

So, I try again with a *different* browser, this time the
classic blue default browser idiotically titled "Internet":
https://c2.staticflickr.com/6/5596/15043756698_817777bd9d_z.jpg

Searching for the geogebra web site, I see two hits, one
being "www.geogebra.org", where we can download it directly
from a web site (which I don't want to do):
https://c2.staticflickr.com/6/5571/15043756608_90afdbb22d_z.jpg

Another links is something called the "GeoGebra - Chrome Web Store"
(whatever that is):
https://c4.staticflickr.com/4/3856/15227244851_90ac3bb275.jpg

But, I prefer to use Google Play, so, I press the third link
which is a "Free" button:
https://c4.staticflickr.com/4/3880/15043563319_197c0c267e_z.jpg

This (finally) brings me to the Google Play store with GeoGebra
Dynamic Mathematics for Everyone prominently listed (as it should be),
but, in small text, it says:
Your device isn't compatible with this version.
https://c4.staticflickr.com/4/3873/15229964182_cf2ebea605.jpg

The device is a basic Samsung Galaxy SIII, Android 4.3.
https://c4.staticflickr.com/4/3870/15043651300_df9a5723e5_z.jpg

However, the same thing happened with the new teacher's Moto G.

What is going on with GeoGebra on these platforms?
Can you shed light on these inconsistencies?

[Mike Yetto]

While walking through the streets of Soho in the rain
Danny D. <dannyd...@gmail.com> wrote...

> This (finally) brings me to the Google Play store with GeoGebra
> Dynamic Mathematics for Everyone prominently listed (as it should be),
> but, in small text, it says:
> Your device isn't compatible with this version.
> https://c4.staticflickr.com/4/3873/15229964182_cf2ebea605.jpg

> The device is a basic Samsung Galaxy SIII, Android 4.3.
> https://c4.staticflickr.com/4/3870/15043651300_df9a5723e5_z.jpg

> However, the same thing happened with the new teacher's Moto G.

> What is going on with GeoGebra on these platforms?
> Can you shed light on these inconsistencies?

This is just a guess, but it seems that your devices are not
compatible with the version available in Google Play.

Mike "do you need another opinion?" Yetto
--
"The history of science is riddled with abject failures of
scientific objectivity. But that is just the point-these have
been failures of science, discovered and corrected by-what,
religion? No, by good science."
- Sam Harris

[Andy Burns]

... "as per subject"

[Poutnik]

Dne 14.9.2014 v 09:14 Andy Burns napsal(a):
> ... "as per subject"

Still better than short subject not saying anything specific, as above.

--
Poutnik

[Danny D.]

Mike Yetto wrote, on Sun, 14 Sep 2014 00:01:32 -0400:

> This is just a guess, but it seems that your devices are not
> compatible with the version available in Google Play.

Makes no sense.

Since when is a Samsung Galaxy S3 and a Moto G not compatible?

[Danny D.]

G. Morgan wrote, on Sun, 14 Sep 2014 06:17:32 -0500:

> The error message is misleading, it should read more like: "To
> continue, log in to your Google account".

I guess I could make a new Google Play account then, as I haven't
signed in since, oh, I bought the phone (almost two years ago).

And I've downloaded hundreds of apps since.

I did let a friend log into her gmail account with Firefox
at one point, and now Firefox won't let me get to Gmail because
it *insists* on trying to log into *her* account, but, that's
just Firefox, so I stopped using it.

Do you think somehow Firefox and Google Play got mixed up?

[Danny D.]

Andy Burns wrote, on Sun, 14 Sep 2014 08:14:29 +0100:
> Do you think somehow Firefox and Google Play got mixed up?

Just in case Firefox settings screwed up Google Play,
I went into Android Settings > Application Manager > All
and deleted Firefox.

Pressing thereafter on the Android Google Play app icon,
searching for Geogebra, it still doesn't show up.

To test, I clicked on the first app in the list to install
(which happened to be "Grapher") and Google Play came up
with a "Complete accout setup" form, which is odd.

The "Continue" button brought me to a form to add a credit
card, which I'll never do on a portable device, so, I was
just about to quit Google Play, when there, in tiny letters
at the bottom, I saw the SKIP button.

Skipping that account setup, I was easily able to download
the specified app, so, it's just something wrong with the
Geogebra app, I guess, that it doesn't work on mainstream
devices such as the Samsung Galaxy SIII and the Moto G.

[Chris Uppal]

Danny D. wrote:

> When I go to the geogebra.org web site from Firefox on Android,
> the download page has a "Google Play" button and a Goegebra
> *Chrome* app! (what's the difference?)

Both Chrome (the web browser and wannabe OS) and Chrome (the OS) have apps.
These are separate from Android apps (and maybe too from each other, but I'm
not sure).

> Clicking the "Google Play" button on that web page, I can
> press a green "Install" (which implies it's a free app):
> https://c2.staticflickr.com/6/5561/15043650950_239ca05061_z.jpg
>
> But then, I get this odd screen which says, for the first
> time ever for me, "In order to purchase GeoGebra, you must
> sign in. Please sign in to continue" :
> (which I never had seen before, at least on Android):
> https://c4.staticflickr.com/4/3913/15230333695_b8559f022d_z.jpg

If you press the install button from within the browser, the browser doesn't
"know" about your Google Play account in the way that the Google Play Store
/app/ does.

> What is going on with GeoGebra on these platforms?
> Can you shed light on these inconsistencies?

They've probably set a minimum screen size, or resticted it to tablets, or set
some other pre-requisite with a similar effect.

I can find it in Google Play from 7" and 10" tablets, but not from a 4.3"
phone.

-- chris

[Jonathan N. Little]

No. Your friend clicked "Remember password"when she logged in which one
should never do on someone else's computer. Got to "Edit > Preferences >
Security > Saved Passwords...> Show Passwords" search for gmail.com and
delete her saved user/password.

--
Take care,

Jonathan
-------------------
LITTLE WORKS STUDIO
http://www.LittleWorksStudio.com

[Jonathan N. Little]

What makes no sense is this has nothing to do with Ubuntu. Fixed F'ups.

[Cybe R. Wizard]

I'm going out on a limb and suggesting that it might be the snapdragon
processors.

Cybe R. Wizard
--
Nice computers don't go down.
Larry Niven, Steven Barnes
"The Barsoom Project"

[Mike Yetto]

While walking through the streets of Soho in the rain
Danny D. <dannyd...@gmail.com> wrote...

Didn't Google play inform you that those devices are not
compatible with that version? That would indicate that the
answer to your last question is, "since the inception of that
version."

Mike "your comprehension level seems low" Yetto
--
"When there is insufficient skepticism, every idea is as good as
every other. That`s the same as having no ideas at all."
— Carl Sagan

[DecadentLinuxUserNumeroUno]

On Sun, 14 Sep 2014 11:33:26 -0400, Mike Yetto
<unet.li...@xoxy.net> Gave us:

>"When there is insufficient skepticism, every idea is as good as
>every other. That`s the same as having no ideas at all."
> � Carl Sagan

And having every idea at the same time.

Seems Mr. Sagan was into quantum effects before he was even aware of
them...

[tlvp]

On Sun, 14 Sep 2014 12:23:44 +0000 (UTC), Danny D. wrote:

> I did let a friend log into her gmail account with Firefox
> at one point, and now Firefox won't let me get to Gmail because
> it *insists* on trying to log into *her* account, but, that's
> just Firefox,

It's *not* "just Firefox" -- it's Google having set a sticky cookie for
your friend's gmail account.

You need to try to find where Google (or Gmail) will let you *unstick* that
cookie from your FF browser. I'd offer you tips, but every one of the few
times I've needed to do that (because I had previously omitted to un-tick a
check-box entitled "Keep me logged in") the procedure's been different.

HTH. And good luck. Cheers, -- tlvp
--
Avant de repondre, jeter la poubelle, SVP.

[Your Name]

In article <lv3gv3$mvi$2...@dont-email.me>, Poutnik <pou...@privacy.net>
wrote:

> Dne 14.9.2014 v 09:14 Andy Burns napsal(a):
> > ... "as per subject"
>
> Still better than short subject not saying anything specific, as above.

Or no subject at all. ;-)

[The Real Bev]

Google's policy is "There shall be only one." I would prefer to have
separate g-accounts for different things -- this account for public
usage, another for private usage, a third for picasa, etc. and have
them all open at the same time, the way I have thunderbird and firefox
open at the same time and just switch between them. Unfortunately,
google doesn't allow that. If I want to use separate accounts for
separate purposes, I have to log out of one and log into another.

I really hate this.

--
Cheers. Bev
==========================================================
It's not true that Lucas, in 1947, tried to get Parliament
to repeal Ohm's Law. They withdrew their efforts when they
met too much resistance.

[Jonathan N. Little]

If you have thunderbird then you can monitor multiple email accounts at
the same time. If you want to do it in a web browser you might have to
have multiple profile instances, or use more than one browser...

[Alphonse Arnaud]

The Real Bev wrote, on Sun, 14 Sep 2014 15:00:03 -0700:

> Google's policy is "There shall be only one."
> I would prefer to have separate g-accounts for different things

I have to agree with you.

The only way I've been able to accomplish *separation* of gmail
accounts is to have separate email *apps*, for each gmail account:
1. K-9 Mail for gmail account 1.
2. Samsung "Email" for gmail account 2.
3. Gmail for email account 3.
4. ? what is a good email app out there ?

So, the problem becomes more of what are the top four or five
*apps* for reading your email, each of which is set up for
one of your mail accounts.

[Alphonse Arnaud]

Lewis wrote, on Sun, 14 Sep 2014 23:10:18 +0000:

> How do you expect it to work?
> That you simultaneously login to multiple accounts?
> Who does this?

Um... everyone?

How many people have a work email, like joes...@mycompany.com
and then a personal email, like joes...@google.com?

Almost everyone, I'd wager.

Also, how many people have a need to keep some parts of their
lives different from other parts of their lives? I'd wager
that's a healthy proportion also.

That you don't have a need just means that you don't have
a complicated life, or that you just do without, but, that
others have that need is obvious.

[Danny D.]

Mike Yetto wrote, on Sun, 14 Sep 2014 11:33:26 -0400:

> Didn't Google play inform you that those devices are not
> compatible with that version? That would indicate that the
> answer to your last question is, "since the inception of that
> version."

Hi Mike,
Yes. On the Moto-G and on the S3, Google Play said it's not
compatible.

I guess that is the answer, but, that's like saying the most
common math graphing app out there which works for all
platforms doesn't work for two of the most common ones.

That's the part that was hard to believe, so, I had thought
it was some other problem.

If anyone out there has the S3 or Moto-G who can confirm, that
would be helpful. What do you think it is about those two
devices that is so incompatible anyway?

[Danny D.]

Chris Uppal wrote, on Sun, 14 Sep 2014 14:07:09 +0100:

> They've probably set a minimum screen size, or resticted it to tablets, or set
> some other pre-requisite with a similar effect.
>
> I can find it in Google Play from 7" and 10" tablets, but not from a 4.3"
> phone.

Hi Chris,

Maybe that's the case, because it downloaded on Windows, Linux, and
iOS iPad, but it wouldn't run on the Android phone, yet, it's
advertised to work on *all* these platforms, including Android.

So, maybe it's simply a "size" thing, which would mean that it won't
work with *any* Android or iOS phone.

[tlvp]

On Sun, 14 Sep 2014 23:10:18 +0000 (UTC), Lewis wrote:

> How do you expect it to work? That you simultaneously login to multiple
> accounts? Who does this?

Not the OP answering here, but:

Using one browser (Safari, say, or Firefox, or IE) I can have a gmail
account open in one tab, a yahoo mail account open in another, a university
mail account open in a third, and a hotmail account open in a fourth,
selecting, copying, and pasting ad lib from one into another.

Why can't I do analogously with two or more gmail accounts open in separate
tabs? or with two or more yahoo mail accounts? I don't know why, but I
can't. Nobody can. So nobody "does this". But I'd sure like to :-) .

[Alphonse Arnaud]

tlvp wrote, on Sun, 14 Sep 2014 21:31:12 -0400:

> Why can't I do analogously with two or more gmail accounts open in separate
> tabs? or with two or more yahoo mail accounts? I don't know why, but I
> can't. Nobody can. So nobody "does this". But I'd sure like to

I, for one, would love if Gmail would allow that!

The best I can do is open different apps to different
Gmail accounts.

On Linux, I use Tor, Chrome, and Firefox to open my three gmail
accounts simultaneously. The one problem with Tor, which I've learned
to work around, is that Google doesn't like Tor.

Google complains and makes you do your phone number again, or,
sometimes it asks for your secret questions, or, it often asks
what town you "normally" log in from.

The weird thing on the town is that you can 'say' any town,
but, then, you have to keep saying 'that' town. :)

[Jonathan N. Little]

Because you are signed in with a *domain session cookie*.

[Rod Speed]

Alphonse Arnaud <Alphons...@aol.com> wrote
> Lewis wrote

>> How do you expect it to work?
>> That you simultaneously login to multiple accounts?
>> Who does this?

> Um... everyone?

> How many people have a work email, like joes...@mycompany.com
> and then a personal email, like joes...@google.com?

> Almost everyone, I'd wager.

> Also, how many people have a need to keep some parts
> of their lives different from other parts of their lives?

Yeah, I certainly do that, keeping my usenet email separate from my other
email.

> I'd wager that's a healthy proportion also.

Yep.

> That you don't have a need just means that you don't
> have a complicated life, or that you just do without,

Or just haven't thought of that approach.

> but, that others have that need is obvious.

And its completely effortless if you use a decent email
client and don’t do your email using the web access.

[Chris Uppal]

Danny D. wrote:

> So, maybe it's simply a "size" thing, which would mean that it won't
> work with *any* Android or iOS phone.

It's worth noting that their download page only lists GeoGebra /Tablet/ Apps
(my emphasis), along with Desktop versions.

-- chris

[Danny D.]

Chris Uppal wrote, on Mon, 15 Sep 2014 13:34:03 +0100:

> It's worth noting that their download page only lists GeoGebra /Tablet/ Apps
> (my emphasis), along with Desktop versions.

Maybe it's a size thing?

[Jonathan N. Little]

Lewis wrote:
> Okay, so one time? In band camp? Alphonse Arnaud <Alphons...@aol.com> was all, like:
> --> Sun, 14 Sep 2014 23:27:56 +0000 (UTC) <lv589s$kh1$3...@news.albasani.net>

>> Lewis wrote, on Sun, 14 Sep 2014 23:10:18 +0000:
>
>>> How do you expect it to work?
>>> That you simultaneously login to multiple accounts?
>>> Who does this?
>
>> Um... everyone?
>

> Name one website that lets you login to multiple accounts at the same
> time.
>

>> How many people have a work email, like joes...@mycompany.com
>> and then a personal email, like joes...@google.com?
>

> And login to the *same* web site to access the two different accounts?
> None, that's how many.
>

Correct that is why you use a mail client. Then you can access more than
one account at the same time.

[Mike Yetto]

While walking through the streets of Soho in the rain
Danny D. <dannyd...@gmail.com> wrote...

I can confirm that Geogebra can be loaded to a Samsung Note 8
tablet, but with a Samsung S4 it isn't even available on Google
Play. In a similar manner Handsent SMS is available on the S4,
but not the wifi-only Note 8.

Google Play apps seem to be sensitive to the capabilities of the
device being used. In one case it's the availability of a phone
network and in the other it might be the size of the screen.

Mike "more worthless conjecture available elsewhere" Yetto
--
"The existing scientific concepts cover always only a very
limited part of reality, and the other part that has not yet been
understood is infinite."
- Werner Heisenberg

[Chris Uppal]

Mike Yetto wrote:

> Google Play apps seem to be sensitive to the capabilities of the
> device being used.

It is. Details here:
http://developer.android.com/google/play/filters.html
and here:
http://developer.android.com/guide/practices/compatibility.html

-- chris

[Cybe R. Wizard]

From:
<http://wiki.geogebra.org/en/Tutorial:Tablet_App_Quickstart_(Android,_iOS)>
----------
"Currently you can:

Download and install the tablet app on Android devices running Android
4.0.3 or newer with 7" screen, and iPad 2 or newer."
----------

I guess that's that. Only 7" or larger screens.

[Danny D.]

Mike Yetto wrote, on Mon, 15 Sep 2014 09:01:14 -0400:

> I can confirm that Geogebra can be loaded to a Samsung Note 8
> tablet, but with a Samsung S4 it isn't even available on Google
> Play. In a similar manner Handsent SMS is available on the S4,
> but not the wifi-only Note 8.
>
> Google Play apps seem to be sensitive to the capabilities of the
> device being used. In one case it's the availability of a phone
> network and in the other it might be the size of the screen.

Thanks for testing that Mike! I appreciate your help.
It seems that the app doesn't want to work on phones, and, since
it works on nearly everything else, it must be a conscious
decision not to work on small screens.

That helps explain why a nearly ubiquitous device, such as the
Moto-G and S3, isn't supported.

[Danny D.]

Cybe R. Wizard wrote, on Mon, 15 Sep 2014 08:57:09 -0500:

> I guess that's that. Only 7" or larger screens.

Is there a way to "trick" the app stores into "thinking"
your device has a larger screen?

[Jonathan N. Little]

So when the app controls are off screen you can do what?

[Danny D.]

Jonathan N. Little wrote, on Mon, 15 Sep 2014 11:57:30 -0400:

> So when the app controls are off screen you can do what?

So when the controls are small, you can still do what you
need to do.

[Wildman]

You missed the point. If the app is hard coded for a minimum
screen size then the controls will not be small. They will
be off the screen.

--
<Wildman> GNU/Linux user #557453
There's no place like ~/.

[Chris Uppal]

Wildman wrote:

> You missed the point. If the app is hard coded for a minimum
> screen size then the controls will not be small. They will
> be off the screen.

Or they may not exist at all if no screen layout definition is provided that
matches the actual screen well enough to be used by the Android framework.

(To be honest, I don't know what would happen in that situation -- maybe the
app would just fall over / fail to start)

-- chris

[Jonathan N. Little]

Depends on how the app windows is defined, it may not scale if it was
defined in absolute pixels. If your phone is X pixels by Y pixels and
the app's controls are placed (X+foo) and|or (Y+bar) they will not be on
screen.

Some websites defined as such fail just that way on small screen devices.

[Wildman]

That would depend on how the program was coded. If the
programmer done a good job, the app would check the
hardware to determine screen size and adjust accordingly.
And if the screen was too small to be useful then the
app would go tits-up with an error message. The only way
to really know for sure is to try it.

--
<Wildman> GNU/Linux user #557453

For the sake of security, close all windows!

[Brian Reay]

Of course they do, the only issue is reading them (so you know what they
do) and 'hitting' them.

Like most of these packages on tablets, they can be a bit 'fiddly' on
small screens. Geogebra is no worse, or better, than any of the others
I've tried in that regard.

We used Quickgraph on our school iPads for a long time, I think Geogebra
is better but you may care to have a look to see what you think. There
is a free version and a more comprehensive one which costs about £2.50
as I recall. AFIK, it is only available for iPad, which is a
disadvantage compared to Geogebra.

Overall, Geogebra is a very good package but, in my view, to get the
best from it (or any of them), it needs to be installed on a desktop or
laptop. Marry it to a Smartboard and it is magic for teaching- probably
better than Autograph which costs money and (I believe) is only
available for Windows. Plus, of course, none of the tedious licensing
issues so students/pupils can have copies on their home machines, pretty
well regardless of which OS they run.

I'm a recently retired Maths Teacher- hence the comments re pupils etc.
I encouraged pupils to have a graph plotting app on their tablets,
smartphones etc. so they could do a quick plot of functions to check
graph shapes, look for approx solutions, number of solutions, etc. Even
on a phone sized screen, it is worth doing but to get the best, you need
a decent display. Plus, they still need basic manual function
'sketching' skills and plotting skills, esp. at A level and for Further
Maths. (I taught 6th form than any other year.)

[Danny D.]

Wildman wrote, on Mon, 15 Sep 2014 12:51:37 -0500:

> You missed the point. If the app is hard coded for a minimum
> screen size then the controls will not be small. They will
> be off the screen.

Thanks for clarifying.
I've programmed in quite a few languages.
I would not, unless I was instructed to for some reason, make
code in absolute coordinates, if I could help it.

I'd make all mine relative.
So, on larger screens, the controls are larger.
On smaller screens, by necessity, the controls would be smaller.

Wouldn't you code using similar best practices?
Hard coding is usually a faux pas, just as 'gotos' were in the seventies.

Now, I'm not saying hard-coded apps don't exist.
In fact, on my iPad, there are iPhone apps which show up
ridiculously small on the large iPad screen, so, it does
happen.

But, from a well designed app, I would think they'd design
it with more foresight.

[Danny D.]

Wildman wrote, on Mon, 15 Sep 2014 14:35:22 -0500:

> That would depend on how the program was coded. If the
> programmer done a good job, the app would check the
> hardware to determine screen size and adjust accordingly.
> And if the screen was too small to be useful then the
> app would go tits-up with an error message. The only way
> to really know for sure is to try it.

Exactly. A well designed app would use *relative* sizing.

[Danny D.]

Brian Reay wrote, on Mon, 15 Sep 2014 20:54:08 +0100:

> We used Quickgraph on our school iPads for a long time, I think Geogebra
> is better but you may care to have a look to see what you think.

Hi Brian,
You're the *only* person who responded who was familiar with the app,
so I definitely appreciate your input. I'm trying to help a math
teacher, so I, myself, am not a geogebra expert.

She is new to teaching, and they suggested she put Geogebra on her
equipment. So, I loaded it onto her brand new Mac Air (after fumbling
about with the controls far too long to believe the "it just works"
mantra) and then I put it on her iPad, neither of which was a problem.

I put it on my Linux machine, and then on Windows, neither of which
had a problem. The only problem was on her cellphone, and then, as
a test, on mine.

> AFIK, it is only available for iPad, which is a
> disadvantage compared to Geogebra.

Since Geogebra is now on her iPad, the only devices left are the phones.

> Overall, Geogebra is a very good package but, in my view, to get the
> best from it (or any of them), it needs to be installed on a desktop or

> laptop. Marry it to a Smartboard and it is magic for teaching...

You hit the nail on the head. She plans on using it for teaching, so,
she will plug her Mac Air laptop into some kind of VGA adapter that
they gave her, and she will display it.

She just wanted to practice, at home, on the iPad and Android phone.

> I'm a recently retired Maths Teacher- hence the comments re pupils etc.

The problem with teaching high-school math, as I had explained to
this math teacher, and as I see it, is that it never makes any pragmatic
sense to the kids.

That is because math teachers, as a rule (but not all), love math
for math's sake. But, very few kids will be theoretical mathematicians,
who love math purely for the sake of math. If math isn't used as a tool,
then the kids don't get it.

They never get practical math.
Math never has a lab. Physics has a lab. Biology has a lab. Heck, even
cooking has a lab. But not math.

It's just taught wrong. Anyway, the point of the graphing software is to
at least *show* what the lines mean.

What I also looked up, for this teacher, is PRACTICAL uses of Algebra I
and Algebra II. Examples. Examples KIDS would care about. Like the equation
of a football on a ballistic path. Or the speed of an arrow shot from a bow.

My opinion is that a math equation should NEVER be on a page without
a real-world application of that exact equation.

> I encouraged pupils to have a graph plotting app on their tablets,
> smartphones etc.

That's interesting because we were not attempting to get the geogebra
app on the kids' phones, but that would be a great idea, once we figure
out how to do it!

Thanks for the great insight!

[Whiskers]

["Followup-To:" header set to comp.mobile.android.]
On 2014-09-14, Danny D. <dannyd...@gmail.com> wrote:
> G. Morgan wrote, on Sun, 14 Sep 2014 06:17:32 -0500:
>
>> The error message is misleading, it should read more like: "To
>> continue, log in to your Google account".
>
> I guess I could make a new Google Play account then, as I haven't
> signed in since, oh, I bought the phone (almost two years ago).
>
> And I've downloaded hundreds of apps since.
>
> I did let a friend log into her gmail account with Firefox
> at one point, and now Firefox won't let me get to Gmail because
> it *insists* on trying to log into *her* account, but, that's
> just Firefox, so I stopped using it.
>
> Do you think somehow Firefox and Google Play got mixed up?

I think someone forgot to create a new user account for a new user of
their machine.

I don't use Firefox, but the screenshots in Google Play show menu
options for 'Tools' and 'Settings', which I would explore for something
that will delete stored cookies and passwords.

--
-- ^^^^^^^^^^
-- Whiskers
-- ~~~~~~~~~~

[Brian Reay]

I always put the Maths in context, helped in part by being an Engineer
for 25 years before entering teaching. Plus, I worked on some
interesting projects so I could give examples which caught the attention
of pupils (mainly boys but we had a few girls in 6th form).

I'd borrow equipment from the Physics dept. for my Mechanics lessons and
have pupils measuring tensions etc. so they could grasp the concept of
resolving forces into components. Things like that. The inspectors loved it.

Slicing younger pupils into imaginary parts and flipping them around the
room for quick fire fraction calculations. (No blood was spilled, well
not that showed ;-), I had a stain on the carpet when I moved in to my
classroom. I used to tell the new Y7s was due to one lesson going wrong.
I think it was actually Coca Cola, I was rather upset when they
replaced my carpet.)

[Rod Speed]

"Mike Yetto" <unet.li...@xoxy.net> wrote in message
news:slrn201409150853...@may.eternal-september.org...

> While walking through the streets of Soho in the rain
> Danny D. <dannyd...@gmail.com> wrote...
>> Mike Yetto wrote, on Sun, 14 Sep 2014 11:33:26 -0400:
>
>>> Didn't Google play inform you that those devices are not
>>> compatible with that version? That would indicate that the
>>> answer to your last question is, "since the inception of that
>>> version."
>
>> Hi Mike,
>> Yes. On the Moto-G and on the S3, Google Play said it's not
>> compatible.
>
>> I guess that is the answer, but, that's like saying the most
>> common math graphing app out there which works for all
>> platforms doesn't work for two of the most common ones.
>
>> That's the part that was hard to believe, so, I had thought
>> it was some other problem.
>
>> If anyone out there has the S3 or Moto-G who can confirm, that
>> would be helpful. What do you think it is about those two
>> devices that is so incompatible anyway?
>
> I can confirm that Geogebra can be loaded to a Samsung Note 8
> tablet, but with a Samsung S4 it isn't even available on Google
> Play. In a similar manner Handsent SMS is available on the S4,
> but not the wifi-only Note 8.

> Google Play apps seem to be sensitive to
> the capabilities of the device being used.

Not only that, you don�t get the Devices category
when you use it on a Samsung Galaxy Tab 2, but
you do when you use it in a browser instead.

[Danny D.]

Brian Reay wrote, on Mon, 15 Sep 2014 22:35:03 +0100:

> I'd borrow equipment from the Physics dept. for my Mechanics lessons and
> have pupils measuring tensions etc. so they could grasp the concept of
> resolving forces into components. Things like that. The inspectors loved it.

This is good.
I don't think, in the USA, they get to tension and Young's constant
and stress and those type of things until physics. This is just
algebra 1 and 2. You know, quadratics and imaginary numbers.

I ran into imaginary numbers in college physics with inductance
and capacitance knocking things out of phase, but, to tell a kid
that i is the square root of minus 1 is so meaningless to them.

Sigh.

[Cybe R. Wizard]

You're seriously asking for help in hacking into the app?

Maybe that's the subject of another thread and on a different newsgroup.

[Cybe R. Wizard]

On Mon, 15 Sep 2014 21:48:37 -0500
"Cybe R. Wizard" <cybe_r...@WizardsTower.invalid> wrote:

> On Mon, 15 Sep 2014 15:38:40 +0000 (UTC)
> "Danny D." <dannyd...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > Cybe R. Wizard wrote, on Mon, 15 Sep 2014 08:57:09 -0500:
> >
> > > I guess that's that. Only 7" or larger screens.
> >
> > Is there a way to "trick" the app stores into "thinking"
> > your device has a larger screen?
> >
> You're seriously asking for help in hacking into the app?

Excuse me, I meant, "...hacking into the app store."

>
> Maybe that's the subject of another thread and on a different
> newsgroup.
>
> Cybe

...and perhaps grist for some Google legal mill, too.

[tlvp]

On Sun, 14 Sep 2014 22:15:26 -0400, Jonathan N. Little answered my

>> Why can't I do analogously with two or more gmail accounts ...

with:

> Because you are signed in with a *domain session cookie*.

Ah-hah! So that's it! Thanks, Jonathan :-) . Cheers, -- tlvp
--
Avant de repondre, jeter la poubelle, SVP.

[Chris Uppal]

Danny D. wrote:

> I'd make all mine relative.
> So, on larger screens, the controls are larger.
> On smaller screens, by necessity, the controls would be smaller.
>
> Wouldn't you code using similar best practices?
> Hard coding is usually a faux pas, just as 'gotos' were in the seventies.

No. But then, you're setting up a false dichotomy. It isn't hard-coded vs.
adaptable.

The /recommended/ way of doing screen layout in Android is more complex than
that (and for very good reason -- given the /significant/ range of screen sizes
of Android devices). What you (normally) do is define one of more groups of
screen sizes that you are going to handle (you can be more fine-grained than
that, but it's discouraged). For each cluster of screen sizes you set up your
GUI (which may not even have the same elements on each screen depending on
size). You would normally use relative layout (recommended) for the
positioning of the elements of each of your layouts. (This is all done in the
inevitable XML files).

You /can/ nominate one of the size-groups as the default, which will then be
used for any screen that doesn't have a better-matching alternative layout. As
far as I know you are not required to do that (not sure of that, though). I
haven't got my head around the rules for scaling individual elements (font
size, scaling images, etc), but there are some -- but of course that approach
has very significant limits.

You certainly can decide that screens below a certain size won't work with your
app and just not bother to set up a size-group (plus support code) for some
small screens.

But when you scale (manually or automatically) a GUI which is designed for
proper size screens, and is therefore cramped even on a 10" tablet, to the much
smaller phone screen, then one of only four things can happen:

1) You leave out a /lot/ of stuff.

2) You completely redesign the GUI to use more screens -- and there is no
guarantee that there even /is/ a usable multi-screen GUI (usable by
not-all-that-strongly-motivated kids).

3) You scale the screen elements to the point where the buttons, etc, are too
small to see/use (though the typically sharper kid's eyesights would offset
that somewhat).

4) You leave the screen elements at the same absolute size, but have them pile
on top of each other. Even if they don't overlap, there will be little/no
space left for the actual graph (or whatever).

If I were one of the authors of GeoGebra, and wanted to support small phone
screens (and assuming that I thought it both necessary and feasible in the
first place), I'd probably go with (1) and make a separate GeoGebra-Lite
product as probably the least work.

-- chris

[Brian Reay]

On 16/09/14 03:05, Danny D. wrote:
> Brian Reay wrote, on Mon, 15 Sep 2014 22:35:03 +0100:
>
>> I'd borrow equipment from the Physics dept. for my Mechanics lessons and
>> have pupils measuring tensions etc. so they could grasp the concept of
>> resolving forces into components. Things like that. The inspectors loved it.
>
> This is good.
> I don't think, in the USA, they get to tension and Young's constant
> and stress and those type of things until physics. This is just
> algebra 1 and 2. You know, quadratics and imaginary numbers.

A friend of mine (sadly no longer with us) taught Math (as you say your
side of the pond) in San Diego and we did a rough and ready comparison
of the content of the Math studied by age up to 18 (when pupils level
school here and go to University, assuming they do). At the time, pupils
could leave school at 16 to seek work or other educational routes.

In broad terms, her view was that the content on in the UK was higher
than in the US, although I don't think there was a huge difference.
Obviously, this was an 'across the board' comparison, based on a review
of the material expected to be taught. She taught in a good school, not
a rough one. Likewise, I taught in a school rated as Outstanding by our
Gov. assessment authority. We may have different views if we were from
different schools ;-)

>
> I ran into imaginary numbers in college physics with inductance
> and capacitance knocking things out of phase, but, to tell a kid
> that i is the square root of minus 1 is so meaningless to them.

Some engineers get confused by it ;-)

As for conjugate pairs of solutions to quadratics or odd order
polynomials with with mixed real and complex roots always having at
least one real root, one complex pair, etc. some people just seem to
fall apart ;-) If they've not grasped the background to 'completing the
square' then, that is probably why.

Anyway, we are way OT, and someone will be getting upset.

Regards
Brian.

[Mike Yetto]

While walking through the streets of Soho in the rain
Danny D. <dannyd...@gmail.com> wrote...

> Wildman wrote, on Mon, 15 Sep 2014 12:51:37 -0500:

>> You missed the point. If the app is hard coded for a minimum
>> screen size then the controls will not be small. They will
>> be off the screen.

> Thanks for clarifying.
> I've programmed in quite a few languages.
> I would not, unless I was instructed to for some reason, make
> code in absolute coordinates, if I could help it.

> I'd make all mine relative.
> So, on larger screens, the controls are larger.
> On smaller screens, by necessity, the controls would be smaller.

If the controls don't have a maximum size a portion of the
workspace gained with a larger screen would be wasted. Without a
minimum size the controls would be worthless at some point. That
could lead towards coding for an optimum control size and
avoiding small screens altogether.

Mike "leading to no Geogebra on small devices" Yetto
--
"All superstition is much the same whether it be that of
astrology, dreams, omen, retributive judgment, or the like, in
all of which the deluded believers observe events which are
fulfilled, but neglect and pass over their failure, though it be
much more common."
- Francis Bacon

[Danny D.]

tlvp wrote, on Tue, 16 Sep 2014 01:39:20 -0400:


>> Because you are signed in with a *domain session cookie*.

> Ah-hah! So that's it! Thanks, Jonathan . Cheers, -- tlvp

I tried to look up what a "domain session cookie" was, but,
there is no specific Wikipedia for it.

The Wikipedia on cookies doesn't even mention the two words
"domain session" together anywhere in the article:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HTTP_cookie

Googling for "what is a domain session cookie", the only
hits with "domain session cookie" in them are too deep in
the dirt (usually troubleshooting tickets) to be generally
useful.

[Danny D.]

Mike Yetto wrote, on Tue, 16 Sep 2014 09:49:35 -0400:

> If the controls don't have a maximum size a portion of the workspace
> gained with a larger screen would be wasted. Without a minimum size the
> controls would be worthless at some point. That could lead towards
> coding for an optimum control size and avoiding small screens
> altogether.

Hi Mike,
I got it that they didn't want Geogebra to work on small screens.
Since that is the case, they shouldn't advertise that it's for
"everyone" and implying it's on all platforms (which it is).

However, even though it's on Android "platform", it's not on
the Android phone, but they do not make that at all clear.

I fault their advertising, for not making it very clear that
most of the Android (and presumably iOS) devices out there can't
actually install the application.

So, I was swayed (yet again) by false and misleading promises,
which were not technically false, but misleading in intent.

[Danny D.]

Brian Reay wrote, on Tue, 16 Sep 2014 14:03:09 +0100:

> In broad terms, her view was that the content on in the UK was higher
> than in the US, although I don't think there was a huge difference.
> Obviously, this was an 'across the board' comparison, based on a review
> of the material expected to be taught. She taught in a good school, not
> a rough one. Likewise, I taught in a school rated as Outstanding by our
> Gov. assessment authority. We may have different views if we were from
> different schools ;-)

I think it's weird, but, in general, it is assumed (almost certainly quite
properly) that the education system in Europe is far better at the lower
levels (K-12) than it is in the USA.

However, there can be no doubt that a huge number of foreign students
come to the USA for the college and graduate education. While Europe
certainly has fantastic schools, my assumption has always been that
the foreigners are coming here because our schools are better at the
higher level.

Does that strike a chord with your reasoning also?

Clearly the BUSINESS aspect of the USA far exceeds that of any other
country on the planet. Is that due to the K-12 education? I doubt it.
Is that due to the university education? Maybe, but I doubt it.
It's due to the system, and the culture more so than anything else.

Which means, in the end, that the educational system isn't all that
important *where* you get it, Europe, USA, or otherwise. What matter
is the business climate and the culture of the people. Education is,
apparently, secondary.

[Jolly Roger]

<http://www.allaboutcookies.org/cookies/cookies-the-same.html>

--
E-mail sent to this address may be devoured by my ravenous SPAM filter.
I often ignore posts from Google. Use a real news client instead.

JR

[Danny D.]

Brian Reay wrote, on Tue, 16 Sep 2014 14:03:09 +0100:

> If they've not grasped the background to 'completing the square'
> then, that is probably why.

Heh heh ... It was years before I ever envisioned the actual
square in that task! (I had always done it mechanically programatically).

[Danny D.]

Chris Uppal wrote, on Tue, 16 Sep 2014 13:14:11 +0100:

> If I were one of the authors of GeoGebra, and wanted to support small
> phone screens (and assuming that I thought it both necessary and
> feasible in the first place), I'd probably go with (1) and make a
> separate GeoGebra-Lite product as probably the least work.

Hi Chris,
That was a *fantastic* post, which described a *lot* of good
work, and thinking that went along with it.

Thanks for making sense out of it for us!
I, for one, appreciate the information!

[Jonathan N. Little]

It is a session cookie for a domain. HTTP is stateless, i.e., like a
major Alzheimer case. HTTP is the protocol used to deliver webpages to
web browsers. The only way a website can tell if you are still the
authorized logged in user is with a session cookie.

In the old days the cookie was the "key" but now for better security it
just holds a token id that links to a file or database record on the
server that confirms that you are *you*. The cookie is restricted to
that domain, in this case "gmail.com" and holds only *one* token to only
*one* session so *only one user can be logged in to one account on a
website with one browser via HTTP*

You have only two options. 1) Use another browser to store a different
session for the domain. OR 2) do not use HTTP and accessing you mail via
a web browser at a websites and use the IMAP protocol with a email
client like Thunderbird.

Clear now?

[Danny D.]

Jonathan N. Little wrote, on Tue, 16 Sep 2014 12:34:30 -0400:

> Clear now?

Yes. That explanation made a *big* difference, because it
was specific to the problem at hand, and because it used
the words which were used to explain the problem in the
first place.

thanks!

[Jonathan N. Little]

Danny D. wrote:
> I got it that they didn't want Geogebra to work on small screens.
> Since that is the case, they shouldn't advertise that it's for
> "everyone" and implying it's on all platforms (which it is).

They advertise that is was for everyone not for *everything*. Nothing
false and misleading. From the install page:

GeoGebra Tablet Apps
^^^^^^
GeoGebra Desktop
^^^^^^^
I don't see "GeoGebra Phone Apps".

[Mike Yetto]

While walking through the streets of Soho in the rain
Danny D. <dannyd...@gmail.com> wrote...

> Mike Yetto wrote, on Tue, 16 Sep 2014 09:49:35 -0400:

>> If the controls don't have a maximum size a portion of the workspace
>> gained with a larger screen would be wasted. Without a minimum size the
>> controls would be worthless at some point. That could lead towards
>> coding for an optimum control size and avoiding small screens
>> altogether.

> Hi Mike,
> I got it that they didn't want Geogebra to work on small screens.
> Since that is the case, they shouldn't advertise that it's for
> "everyone" and implying it's on all platforms (which it is).

> However, even though it's on Android "platform", it's not on
> the Android phone, but they do not make that at all clear.

To make *everything* unambiguously clear to absolutely *everyone*
would take more effort than the program required. It is valid to
assume that the receiver of the information is in possession of a
certain level of communication skills.

> I fault their advertising, for not making it very clear that
> most of the Android (and presumably iOS) devices out there can't
> actually install the application.

Even after being notified of the inability of your device to load
the application you spent quite a bit of time and energy (yours
and others) trying to clear up the lack of communication.

> So, I was swayed (yet again) by false and misleading promises,
> which were not technically false, but misleading in intent.

You were confused (probably not for the last time) by false
inferences and ignored data.

Mike "and here's another random yet apropos sig" Yetto
--
"The eye sees what the mind is prepared to comprehend."
- Henri-Louis Bergson

[Jonathan N. Little]

Great. I'll offer another tip to you as well in the security nature.

Viruses are not that effective for the "bad guys" these days, the most
effective strategy is *human engineering*. Deception to make *you* let
the devil in by the front door. This is better also because it is
OS-independent.

I advise folks that if you are accessing email on your *own* device to
*not* use a web browser with the webmail interface, but rather use a
email client like Thunderbird. The reason is all the technologies that
enriches the web experience for the Internet can be used to compromise
you in an email. (JavaScript, remote content, Java, Flash, ...), But in
a email client like Thunderbird they are all disabled by default or not
present. Yes you can disable everything in your web browser but then
your Web Experience will be more like the old BBS days. So my advice is
to use am email client for email and a web browser for the web and only
use webmail when you are not on your own device.

[Brian Reay]

Like many things in Maths, you need to be able to do the process quickly
and accurately, so it is good to have a 'mechanical' technique
AS LONG AS you understand the principles. In fact, I use a 'frame work'
approach, which is easy for pupils to remember, apply quickly, interpret
the result AND is easy to relate to the underlying principle. It also
works with the 'nasty' questions they sometimes slip in to see who is
just stabbing in the dark.

I've similar techniques for other areas, eg the Binomial expansion which
pupils can find daunting.

[Brian Reay]

We see the same here. Our system is often critised, and I have to agree
it does have some serious issues, but we are a very popular destination
for those seeking a quality education at all levels. All of my daughters
are at, or were at, top Unis, and their courses (Medicine, Law,
Chemistry Masters) all have a high percentage of overseas students
paying premium fees.

Same goes for our schools, even the good state schools not just the
independent ones.

[JEDIDIAH]

On 2014-09-16, Brian Reay <no...@m.com> wrote:
> On 16/09/14 17:22, Danny D. wrote:
>> Brian Reay wrote, on Tue, 16 Sep 2014 14:03:09 +0100:
>>
>>> In broad terms, her view was that the content on in the UK was higher
>>> than in the US, although I don't think there was a huge difference.
>>> Obviously, this was an 'across the board' comparison, based on a review
>>> of the material expected to be taught. She taught in a good school, not
>>> a rough one. Likewise, I taught in a school rated as Outstanding by our
>>> Gov. assessment authority. We may have different views if we were from
>>> different schools ;-)
>>
>> I think it's weird, but, in general, it is assumed (almost certainly quite
>> properly) that the education system in Europe is far better at the lower
>> levels (K-12) than it is in the USA.

The quality of instruction varies widely in the US. Cooking numbers
probably doesn't really give you a very accurate picture and leads to the
apparent contradicted hinted at below.

>>
>> However, there can be no doubt that a huge number of foreign students
>> come to the USA for the college and graduate education. While Europe
>> certainly has fantastic schools, my assumption has always been that
>> the foreigners are coming here because our schools are better at the
>> higher level.
>>
>> Does that strike a chord with your reasoning also?
>>
>> Clearly the BUSINESS aspect of the USA far exceeds that of any other
>> country on the planet. Is that due to the K-12 education? I doubt it.
>> Is that due to the university education? Maybe, but I doubt it.
>> It's due to the system, and the culture more so than anything else.
>>
>> Which means, in the end, that the educational system isn't all that
>> important *where* you get it, Europe, USA, or otherwise. What matter
>> is the business climate and the culture of the people. Education is,
>> apparently, secondary.
>>
>
> We see the same here. Our system is often critised, and I have to agree
> it does have some serious issues, but we are a very popular destination
> for those seeking a quality education at all levels. All of my daughters
> are at, or were at, top Unis, and their courses (Medicine, Law,
> Chemistry Masters) all have a high percentage of overseas students
> paying premium fees.
>
> Same goes for our schools, even the good state schools not just the
> independent ones.
>
>

--
In a "stable" but "inconsistent" system, the end user only |||
has to adapt once rather than needing to adapt any time a / | \
new version of the relevant shovelware is released.

[DecadentLinuxUserNumeroUno]

On Tue, 16 Sep 2014 14:03:09 +0100, Brian Reay <no...@m.com> Gave us:

>Anyway, we are way OT, and someone will be getting upset.

I suggest "Stand And Deliver".

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0094027/

[Danny D.]

Jonathan N. Little wrote, on Tue, 16 Sep 2014 13:04:21 -0400:

> But in a email client like Thunderbird they are all disabled by default
> or not present.

This is a great point.
I used Thunderbird on my laptop and Eudora on my PC.
For mobile devices, it's K-9 mail mostly on my Android phone.
Unfortunately, neither works in iOS on my iPad.

In fact, almost nothing useful, by wail of MUA for mail, works on
the iOS iPad, while *everything* (almost) works on all the other
platforms.

[Danny D.]

Jonathan N. Little wrote, on Tue, 16 Sep 2014 12:42:12 -0400:

> I don't see "GeoGebra Phone Apps".

That's the real answer to this thread! :)

[nospam]

In article <lvb36r$avj$1...@dont-email.me>, Danny D.

<dannyd...@gmail.com> wrote:

> > But in a email client like Thunderbird they are all disabled by default
> > or not present.
>
> This is a great point.
> I used Thunderbird on my laptop and Eudora on my PC.
> For mobile devices, it's K-9 mail mostly on my Android phone.
> Unfortunately, neither works in iOS on my iPad.
>
> In fact, almost nothing useful, by wail of MUA for mail, works on
> the iOS iPad, while *everything* (almost) works on all the other
> platforms.

there are a *lot* of mail apps on the ipad.

feature sets and the user interface varies, but they all work quite
well.

[Danny D.]

nospam wrote, on Wed, 17 Sep 2014 00:41:35 -0400:

> there are a *lot* of mail apps on the ipad.

I tried to find Thunderbird on the iPad, but must have missed it.
Likewise with K-9 mail, which is the second-best out there.

The best I could find was "Gmail" but that's the problem in the first
place (that it has this "domain session cookie" problem).

So, I just gave up, and decided *not* to do email on the iPad.

[Danny D.]

Mike Yetto wrote, on Tue, 16 Sep 2014 12:56:57 -0400:

> Even after being notified of the inability of your device to load the
> application you spent quite a bit of time and energy (yours and others)
> trying to clear up the lack of communication.

It had never occurred to me that *all* phones were disallowed.

[nospam]

In article <lvb3j9$avj$3...@dont-email.me>, Danny D.

<dannyd...@gmail.com> wrote:

> > there are a *lot* of mail apps on the ipad.
>
> I tried to find Thunderbird on the iPad, but must have missed it.

thunderbird is not available on the ipad. no loss. there are far better
apps available.

> Likewise with K-9 mail, which is the second-best out there.
>
> The best I could find was "Gmail" but that's the problem in the first
> place (that it has this "domain session cookie" problem).

gmail is one, but only for gmail.

here's a bunch to try:
<http://www.imore.com/best-alternative-mail-clients-iphone-mailbox-triag
e-boxer-and-more>
<http://ioshacker.com/apps/the-best-mail-apps-for-your-iphone>
<http://www.idownloadblog.com/2014/04/20/best-email-apps-iphone/>

> So, I just gave up, and decided *not* to do email on the iPad.

you didn't look very hard.

[Jonathan N Little]

On Wed, 17 Sep 2014 00:57:24 -0400, nospam wrote:

> In article <lvb3j9$avj$3...@dont-email.me>, Danny D.
> <dannyd...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> > there are a *lot* of mail apps on the ipad.
>>
>> I tried to find Thunderbird on the iPad, but must have missed it.
>
> thunderbird is not available on the ipad. no loss. there are far better
> apps available.
>

<snip>

>
> here's a bunch to try:
> <http://www.imore.com/best-alternative-mail-clients-iphone-mailbox-triag
> e-boxer-and-more>

And yet none seem to be able to post a multi-line URL without breaking
it...


--
Jonathan
=========================
www.LittleWorksStudio.com

[Brian Reay]

What is wrong with the supplied app? It handles all the mail systems
I've tried. It 'integrates' with the other iPod apps well. **

As mail applications go, I can't say I'm a great fan of T'bird. I use it
for newsgroups mainly, occasionally for mail.

** Cue the inevitable 'Apple' insults.

[Brian Reay]

Not everyone lives their lives through watching Movies and TV.
Having a real life is much more interesting. You should try it.

[Brian Reay]

On 16/09/14 21:44, JEDIDIAH wrote:
> On 2014-09-16, Brian Reay <no...@m.com> wrote:
>> On 16/09/14 17:22, Danny D. wrote:
>>> Brian Reay wrote, on Tue, 16 Sep 2014 14:03:09 +0100:
>>>
>>>> In broad terms, her view was that the content on in the UK was higher
>>>> than in the US, although I don't think there was a huge difference.
>>>> Obviously, this was an 'across the board' comparison, based on a review
>>>> of the material expected to be taught. She taught in a good school, not
>>>> a rough one. Likewise, I taught in a school rated as Outstanding by our
>>>> Gov. assessment authority. We may have different views if we were from
>>>> different schools ;-)
>>>
>>> I think it's weird, but, in general, it is assumed (almost certainly quite
>>> properly) that the education system in Europe is far better at the lower
>>> levels (K-12) than it is in the USA.
>
> The quality of instruction varies widely in the US. Cooking numbers
> probably doesn't really give you a very accurate picture and leads to the
> apparent contradicted hinted at below.
>

We have lower quality schools and Universities which 'cook' their
results by pushing results in 'soft' subjects and other areas. The Gov.
sometimes plays along, depending on the flavour of the day.

I expect most countries do the same.

One of the key issues is pupil/student motivation, which is often driven
in part by 'culture'. We suffer from having a system where, even if you
don't work, you can have a perfectly comfortable life, fed, housed,
satellite TV etc., all paid for by those who graft and pay taxes. There
are whole families where no one has ever worked and probably never will.
Not because there is no work, they simply won't
work. Often they get more from the State (tax payers) than they could
earn due to their lack of skills and motivation. Youngsters will go to
Uni, get a degree in some worthless subject which doesn't fit them for a
job, live on benefits, never repay the loan used to get the degree
(repayments start when salary reaches a set level), and doss. We've had
cases when such people were required to do work under a 'work for
benefits' type scheme and they took the Gov. to court and won! Crazy.

In theory, the max benefits you can get are capped at �26000, the
average wage. To net that, you'd need to earn much more, more than many
working, qualified people earn. More than a nurse, newly qualified
teacher, police officer, soldier, or Junior Doctor.

I'll step down from my soap box,,, ;-)

[nospam]

In article <lvc141$mfs$1...@dont-email.me>, Jonathan N Little

<lws...@gmail.com> wrote:

> > here's a bunch to try:
> > <http://www.imore.com/best-alternative-mail-clients-iphone-mailbox-triag
> > e-boxer-and-more>
>
> And yet none seem to be able to post a multi-line URL without breaking
> it...

the urls i post are properly delimited in accordance with the relevant
rfc.

if your software doesn't handle that, then it's *your* software that's
broken.

plus, i wasn't posting from an ipad anyway.

[Jonathan N. Little]

Your URL was broken in Thunderbird and Pan on Windows and Linux...it's
your Mac's problem.

[nospam]

In article <lvcgm8$ev2$1...@dont-email.me>, Jonathan N. Little

<lws...@gmail.com> wrote:

> >> And yet none seem to be able to post a multi-line URL without breaking
> >> it...
> >
> > the urls i post are properly delimited in accordance with the relevant
> > rfc.
> >
> > if your software doesn't handle that, then it's *your* software that's
> > broken.
> >
> > plus, i wasn't posting from an ipad anyway.
> >
>
> Your URL was broken in Thunderbird and Pan on Windows and Linux...it's
> your Mac's problem.

nope. it's at your end.

first of all, the url was not broken (it wraps), but regardless, it was
properly delimited and anything that can't handle delimited urls is
what's broken.

<http://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc3986#appendix-C>

[Jonathan N. Little]

*Your* client is inserting a hard return. No problem here...


<https://www.google.com/maps/place/Greenwich/@51.47808,-0.01365,17z/data=!3m1!4b1!4m2!3m1!1s0x48760288ccf3820d:0xd520b1f2804e7aed>

[tlvp]

On Wed, 17 Sep 2014 13:14:13 -0400, nospam wrote:

> the urls i post are properly delimited in accordance with the relevant
> rfc.

The delimiting is fine, I agree. But your "User-Agent: Thoth/1.8.3
(Carbon/OS X)" chose to wrap the line one of them was in -- indeed, in the
"Raw message" I see:

--- [begin extract from Raw message] ---

here's a bunch to try:
<http://www.imore.com/best-alternative-mail-clients-iphone-mailbox-triag
e-boxer-and-more>

<http://ioshacker.com/apps/the-best-mail-apps-for-your-iphone>
<http://www.idownloadblog.com/2014/04/20/best-email-apps-iphone/>
--- [end extract from Raw message] ---

No news client will know quite how to reassemble that as a one-liner :-) .

Cheers, -- tlvp
--
Avant de repondre, jeter la poubelle, SVP.

[Jonathan N. Little]

I find only iUsers persist with this problem. Others resolve it by
fixing their client settings.

They are either unable to fix it, or unable to fix it ;-)

[nospam]

In article <lvclvd$rg0$1...@dont-email.me>, Jonathan N. Little

<lws...@gmail.com> wrote:

> >> Your URL was broken in Thunderbird and Pan on Windows and Linux...it's
> >> your Mac's problem.
> >
> > nope. it's at your end.
> >
> > first of all, the url was not broken (it wraps), but regardless, it was
> > properly delimited and anything that can't handle delimited urls is
> > what's broken.
> >
> > <http://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc3986#appendix-C>
>
> *Your* client is inserting a hard return. No problem here...

again, whether or not there's an embedded linebreak or whitespace makes
no difference whatsoever if the software reading it is compliant with
the rfc. yours isn't.

the <> delimiters are there so that software can detect it's a url and
then makes it a clickable link, even if it spans multiple lines.

furthermore, copy/pasting the url, even *with* embedded line breaks
will also work since browsers will remove embedded whitespace and
linebreaks automatically.

if there's a problem, it's at your end.

[nospam]

In article <lvcn54$5uk$1...@dont-email.me>, Jonathan N. Little

<lws...@gmail.com> wrote:

> I find only iUsers persist with this problem. Others resolve it by
> fixing their client settings.

then why don't you fix it.

the problem is *your* newsreader not being compliant with the rfcs for
url delimiters.

[DecadentLinuxUserNumeroUno]

On Wed, 17 Sep 2014 16:01:00 +0100, Brian Reay <no...@m.com> Gave us:

>On 16/09/14 22:14, DecadentLinuxUserNumeroUno wrote:
>> On Tue, 16 Sep 2014 14:03:09 +0100, Brian Reay <no...@m.com> Gave us:
>>
>>> Anyway, we are way OT, and someone will be getting upset.
>>
>>
>> I suggest "Stand And Deliver".
>>
>> http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0094027/
>>
>
>Not everyone lives their lives through watching Movies and TV.

Pretty much nobody, idiot.

Try coming up with something original, and that actually has a basis
in fact.

>Having a real life is much more interesting.

You appear to be without one. Someone must have told you, providing
you with the faint knowledge you have.

> You should try it.

I do more in the first four hours of my day to make the world a
better, safer, more civil place, than a retarded old insulting bastard
like you has or ever will in your entire pathetic life.

And that is just what gets your gourd, chump!

So, you don't watch any movies... You must be a real prize to be
around.

[Danny D.]

Brian Reay wrote, on Wed, 17 Sep 2014 15:57:38 +0100:

> What is wrong with the supplied app? It handles all the mail systems
> I've tried. It 'integrates' with the other iPod apps well.

Well, like many people who care about their privacy, I make up
an iCloud name to "register" the iPad.

Unfortunately, *that* (otherwise unused) email address apparently
*becomes* the email address for the default iOS "Mail" application.

I just looked, and I see I can go to Mail > Edit > New Mailbox
and from there, I can set up additional accounts.

But, it may be all for naught, since the Apple mail works like
Reverse Polish Notation, in that it does the sequence of operations
backward from the way I have done it for decades.

So, it's frustrating to use the Apple Mail app because it works
the way someone else thinks, and not how I think. It wouldn't
be a critical flaw, if it simply allowed forward logic, but, as
with all things Apple, you do it backward, or not at all.

So, pretty much the default Mail app is garbage.

[Danny D.]

nospam wrote, on Wed, 17 Sep 2014 00:57:24 -0400:

> thunderbird is not available on the ipad. no loss.
> there are far better apps available.

Nospam is correct.
Thunderbird is a great program for email, but it's a terrible
newsreader anyway.

There really are no good newsreaders on iOS or on Android.
Sure, they exist.

But their functionality leaves much to be desired, especially
when you compare with the free apps available on the laptops.

[nospam]

In article <lvcru0$9mu$1...@dont-email.me>, Danny D.

<dannyd...@gmail.com> wrote:

> > What is wrong with the supplied app? It handles all the mail systems
> > I've tried. It 'integrates' with the other iPod apps well.
>
> Well, like many people who care about their privacy, I make up
> an iCloud name to "register" the iPad.
>
> Unfortunately, *that* (otherwise unused) email address apparently
> *becomes* the email address for the default iOS "Mail" application.

no it doesn't.

> I just looked, and I see I can go to Mail > Edit > New Mailbox
> and from there, I can set up additional accounts.

as many as you want.

> But, it may be all for naught, since the Apple mail works like
> Reverse Polish Notation, in that it does the sequence of operations
> backward from the way I have done it for decades.

huh? how is it reversed?

> So, it's frustrating to use the Apple Mail app because it works
> the way someone else thinks, and not how I think. It wouldn't
> be a critical flaw, if it simply allowed forward logic, but, as
> with all things Apple, you do it backward, or not at all.

all apps work the way someone else thinks, regardless of platform.

unless you write an app yourself, the entire design and feature set
will be decided by others.

you may be able to configure some of it in preferences, but not always.

> So, pretty much the default Mail app is garbage.

there are dozens of other mail apps.

[nospam]

In article <lvcs0g$9mu$2...@dont-email.me>, Danny D.

<dannyd...@gmail.com> wrote:

> > thunderbird is not available on the ipad. no loss.
> > there are far better apps available.
>
> Nospam is correct.
> Thunderbird is a great program for email, but it's a terrible
> newsreader anyway.

it sucks for both.

[Brian Reay]

On 17/09/2014 21:45, Danny D. wrote:
> Brian Reay wrote, on Wed, 17 Sep 2014 15:57:38 +0100:
>
>> What is wrong with the supplied app? It handles all the mail systems
>> I've tried. It 'integrates' with the other iPod apps well.
>
> Well, like many people who care about their privacy, I make up
> an iCloud name to "register" the iPad.
>
> Unfortunately, *that* (otherwise unused) email address apparently
> *becomes* the email address for the default iOS "Mail" application.
>
> I just looked, and I see I can go to Mail > Edit > New Mailbox
> and from there, I can set up additional accounts.

That is what I did for the school iPads I managed.

A common 'master' Email used on all the iPads for iTunes etc. (legal in
the UK, I checked with Apple).

The 'classroom' ones didn't have an account in the Email app. Others,
had personal Email accounts, inc. Apple ones if wished, and the school
account.

>
> But, it may be all for naught, since the Apple mail works like
> Reverse Polish Notation, in that it does the sequence of operations
> backward from the way I have done it for decades.
>
> So, it's frustrating to use the Apple Mail app because it works
> the way someone else thinks, and not how I think. It wouldn't
> be a critical flaw, if it simply allowed forward logic, but, as
> with all things Apple, you do it backward, or not at all.
>
> So, pretty much the default Mail app is garbage.

Well, just because it is different doesn't make it garbage. I'm not
saying it is anything special but I've yet to see a mail program that
makes me go 'wow, that is good'.

NewsTap is the only news client I've found for the iPad/iPhone. It does
the job but no 'wow' factor.

[The Real Bev]

On 09/14/2014 04:10 PM, Lewis wrote:
> Okay, so one time? In band camp? The Real Bev <bashl...@gmail.com> was all, like:
> --> Sun, 14 Sep 2014 15:00:03 -0700 <lv5354$o7h$1...@dont-email.me>
>> On 09/14/2014 06:34 AM, Jonathan N. Little wrote:
>>> Danny D. wrote:
>>>> G. Morgan wrote, on Sun, 14 Sep 2014 06:17:32 -0500:
>>>>
>>>>> The error message is misleading, it should read more like: "To
>>>>> continue, log in to your Google account".
>>>>
>>>> I guess I could make a new Google Play account then, as I haven't
>>>> signed in since, oh, I bought the phone (almost two years ago).
>>>>
>>>> And I've downloaded hundreds of apps since.
>>>>
>>>> I did let a friend log into her gmail account with Firefox
>>>> at one point, and now Firefox won't let me get to Gmail because
>>>> it *insists* on trying to log into *her* account, but, that's
>>>> just Firefox, so I stopped using it.
>>>>
>>>> Do you think somehow Firefox and Google Play got mixed up?
>>>
>>> No. Your friend clicked "Remember password"when she logged in which one
>>> should never do on someone else's computer. Got to "Edit > Preferences >
>>> Security > Saved Passwords...> Show Passwords" search for gmail.com and
>>> delete her saved user/password.
>
>> Google's policy is "There shall be only one."
>
> What are you talking about? I have three google accounts without any
> issues.
>
>> I would prefer to have separate g-accounts for different things --
>> this account for public usage, another for private usage, a third for
>> picasa, etc. and have them all open at the same time, the way I have
>> thunderbird and firefox open at the same time and just switch between
>> them. Unfortunately, google doesn't allow that.
>
> Funny, works for me. I use Google Chrome for one Google account and
> Safari for my primary one. Sometime I switch either Chrome of Safari to
> my tertiary account.

I could use Chrome and Opera, but I don't want to. Why should google
allow me to have simultaneous open accounts only if I use different
browsers? Why does it care?

>> If I want to use separate accounts for separate purposes, I have to
>> log out of one and log into another.
>
> How do you expect it to work? That you simultaneously login to multiple
> accounts? Who does this?

I do. No problem with TB, it's just webstuff I'm bitching about. I
have a picasa account for each gmail account. I put different stuff in
each account. I'd like to have both of them open at the same time in
different FF tabs. I don't want all my internet activity based in a
single google account. Why is this a problem for you?

--
Cheers, Bev
=======================================================================
"Lord, grant me the serenity to accept the things that I cannot change,
the courage to change the things I can, and the wisdom to hide the
bodies of the people who pissed me off."

[nospam]

In article <lvf9mk$mev$1...@dont-email.me>, The Real Bev

<bashl...@gmail.com> wrote:

> >> I would prefer to have separate g-accounts for different things --
> >> this account for public usage, another for private usage, a third for
> >> picasa, etc. and have them all open at the same time, the way I have
> >> thunderbird and firefox open at the same time and just switch between
> >> them. Unfortunately, google doesn't allow that.
> >
> > Funny, works for me. I use Google Chrome for one Google account and
> > Safari for my primary one. Sometime I switch either Chrome of Safari to
> > my tertiary account.
>
> I could use Chrome and Opera, but I don't want to. Why should google
> allow me to have simultaneous open accounts only if I use different
> browsers? Why does it care?

because it uses a cookie which is per browser, not per browser window.

separate browsers have their own set of cookies, so you can be logged
in as different people on different browsers.

and this isn't a google only thing either.

[Jonathan N. Little]

The Real Bev wrote:
> I could use Chrome and Opera, but I don't want to. Why should google
> allow me to have simultaneous open accounts only if I use different
> browsers? Why does it care?

Already explained that it has NOTHING to do with Google. It also nothing
to do with the browser but the protocol. Access an mail account via
webmail and you are using stateless HTTP protocol and the browser needs
a session cookie to keep track that you are authorized. It is bound to
the domain and therefore only one logged in account at a time for a web
browser. Whereas if you use an email client like Thunderbird then you
are accessing your account via IMAP and you can be authorized to access
several accounts at once.

[Caver1]

There is an extension for Firefox that will let you switch between
cookies so you can access more than one account for the same session.
You'll have to look for it as I don't remember it's name. Just ran
across it one day.

--
Caver1

[Wildman]

On Thu, 18 Sep 2014 16:38:14 -0400
Caver1 <Cav...@inthemud.org> wrote:

> There is an extension for Firefox that will let you switch between
> cookies so you can access more than one account for the same session.
> You'll have to look for it as I don't remember it's name. Just ran
> across it one day.
>

Could be Cookie Controller.

--
<Wildman> GNU/Linux user #557453
The cow died so I don't need your bull!