Those on Android 10... is it worth upgrading from 9 to 10? What are the pitfalls you've experienced & the benefits?

[Arlen Holder]

Those on Android 10... is it worth upgrading from 9 to 10?
o What are the pitfalls you've experienced & the benefits?

My $100 Moto G7, on T-Mobile, bought last November, is asking me to update
it from Android 9 to Android 10.

Those of you who have made the transition, what are your thoughts?
--
Usenet is a polite public potluck of purposefully helpful advice.

[123456789]

Arlen Holder wrote:

> Those on Android 10... is it worth upgrading from 9 to 10? What are

> the pitfalls you've experienced & the benefits?

Both my phone and one tablet have been updated to Android 10. I've
noticed nothing that gives any noticed advantage in my everyday use. But
The hamburger menu icon disappeared from the bottom navigation bar on a
few of my old apps. It turned my Groundhog newsreader into read only app.
I've yet to find a good replacement. Any ideas?

[Arlen Holder]

On Fri, 3 Jul 2020 16:32:14 -0700, 123456789 wrote:

> Both my phone and one tablet have been updated to Android 10. I've
> noticed nothing that gives any noticed advantage in my everyday use. But
> The hamburger menu icon disappeared from the bottom navigation bar on a
> few of my old apps. It turned my Groundhog newsreader into read only app.
> I've yet to find a good replacement. Any ideas?

Thanks for that input, where, for a free newsreader, it's a well-known
issue there are none, of any use anyway, as far as I can tell, on Android
(or on iOS).

What I do on both Android & on iOS is simply create a shortcut to:
o <http://tinyurl.com/comp-mobile-android>
o <http://tinyurl.com/misc-phone-mobile-iphone>
o <http://tinyurl.com/alt-comp-freeware>
etc.
Where, on a mobile device, I use that only for reading - not posting.

I haven't had a Motorola phone since the original $200 Moto G from Google,
where this Moto G7 is great, proving that consumer electronics simply gets
better, faster, and cheaper over time.

Apparently they've been rolling out Android 10 for a while:
o *Motorola finally starts rolling out Android 10 for the Moto G7 & Moto G7*
Power<https://www.androidcentral.com/motorola-finally-starts-rolling-out-android-10-moto-g7-and-moto-g7-power>
"The update brings new gesture navigation, a system-wide dark mode,
privacy and security enhancements, smart replies, as well as easier
Wi-Fi sharing."

And, apparently, this is the last Android this phone will have on it:
"the Moto G7 and Moto G7 Power will not receive any more OS updates."

o *Motorola timidly starts updating the Moto G7 and G7 Power to Android 10*
<https://www.phonearena.com/news/motorola-moto-g7-g7-power-android-10-updates_id124496>

For those of you owning newer Motorola phones, here's the update list:
o *Which Motorola phones will get upgraded to Android 10?*
<https://www.trustedreviews.com/news/when-will-motorola-phones-get-upgraded-to-android-10-3941399>

Reading what's on Android 10, it doesn't seem all that big of a deal
(e.g., why would I care about 'dark mode'?) but I'll check it out just to
learn more about Android, as I've learned a lot about Nougat with my $130
LG Stylo 3 Plus bought on Christmas Eve in 2017, and then the $100 Moto G7
bought on Black Friday, 2019 (because I gave my LG Stylo 3 Plus to a kid
who took it swimming).
--
What I _love_ about smartphones is they just get better, faster, cheaper
over time!

[Arlen Holder]

Since I generally don't update an OS without knowing what's in it, I looked
and found a some things that seem nice in Android 10 (over Android 9)

Incognito in Google Maps
Another thing to note when you compare Android 9 and 10 is that Google
Maps will operate in incognito mode. The users will now be able to look
for and navigate places privately without having the data linked back
to their accounts.

Greater focus on Privacy & Security
What makes Android 10 better than 9 is its focus on privacy and
security. One of the Android 10 features is giving the control of
location access to the end users. Instead of turning the location
access off completely, the users can choose the option to get their
location tracked only when the app is active.
<https://appinventiv.com/blog/android-10-vs-android-9-comparison/>

Privacy
Be ready to notice the dedicated Privacy section in the Android Q.
Once you open, it reveals the various permissions for things like
calendar, location, camera, contacts and many more.
Earlier users never got the clear idea of what data, apps get access on
the device, however with this new section it becomes easier to discover
and revoke permissions for specific apps.

Notifications
users have the option to set notifications to Silent or on Alerting
mode, as per their needs.
<https://www.techugo.com/blog/android-9-vs-android-10-which-one-is-best-to-pick/>

tracking
Android 10 will allow you to select an option to have your location
tracked only while you're using the app (which means while it's
actively open on your screen).
<https://www.wired.com/story/android-10-best-new-features/>

Downloads
more control over apps, controlling access to shared files.
Users will be able to control apps' access to the Photos and Videos or
the Audio collections via new runtime permissions. For Downloads, apps
must use the system file picker, which allows the user to decide which
Download files the app can access.

Permissions
The "Permissions usage" page in Settings has been completely overhauled
to show which permissions are being used by how many of your apps,
there's the option to filter by permissions to see which apps are using
certain ones, and a new UI for the "App info" page.
<https://www.androidcentral.com/android-10>

[John McGaw]

On 7/3/2020 6:48 PM, Arlen Holder wrote:
> Those on Android 10... is it worth upgrading from 9 to 10?
> o What are the pitfalls you've experienced & the benefits?
>
> My $100 Moto G7, on T-Mobile, bought last November, is asking me to update
> it from Android 9 to Android 10.
>
> Those of you who have made the transition, what are your thoughts?
>

No downside that I've detected. It has been long enough now that I can't
really remember any major changes that affected me except that maybe
gesture controls and navigation are a bit better. I'm on a "pure" Android
phone so I get the updates quite early on before any problems are widely
reported but it has never bitten me personally.

--
Bodger's Dictum: Artifical intelligence
can never overcome natural stupidity.

[Arlen Holder]

On Sat, 04 Jul 2020 10:44:56 -0500, jetjock wrote:

> I found absolutely no benefit from the upgrade.

*Why the hell don't the reviews of Android 10 _tell_ us this stuff?*

I'm gonna have to agree with you jetcock, given I upgraded only moments
ago, from Android 9 to Android 10, because I wanted the "added privacy".

I read a score of Android 10 versus Android 9 articles _before_ I updated,
and _none_ of them told me things that mattered.

All of them talked about "dark mode" (like I give a shit about it, where,
by design, my home screen is "dark black" anyway, to preserve power), but
_none_ of them told me Google _added_ a privacy hole in Android 10.

Now there's a _mandatory_ app based "Advertiser ID" for Christs' sake.
o Damn.

After all this work to _not_ have an Advertiser ID (e.g., by not having a
Google Account attached to the phone), there's now, apparently, a MANDATORY
Advertiser ID, just like in the crappy iOS system design.

*Why the hell don't the reviews of Android 10 _tell_ us this stuff?*
--
The one good thing in Android 10 is the screenshot now saves automatically.

[Arlen Holder]

On Sat, 4 Jul 2020 16:30:34 -0000 (UTC), Arlen Holder wrote:

> I read a score of Android 10 versus Android 9 articles _before_ I updated,
> and _none_ of them told me things that mattered.

One thing for Nova free users, is that the Nova app launcher seems to be
working fine... (so far) on Android 10 (on my $100 Moto G7 anyway).

Another thing is that I turned on the new Android Q "Gesture Navigation",
which, well, I guess it's nice but it's confusing as all hell at first,
where I'm sure you get used to it.

There are _lots_ of gestures, only some of which are related to "System
Navigation", where some of the gestures seems to supersede, I think, the
Motorola Gestures, which is probably a good thing since not everyone has
Motorola phones (e.g., chop chop to turn on the flashlight, twist to turn
on the camera, etc.).

Gestures also seem to make the previously unused fingerprint sensor useful
again, where it now brings up the notifications (I don't secure the phone
because I understand my threat model, which isn't from someone grabbing the
phone out of my hands and running off with it).

Perhaps I'd get used to this new gesture navigation, but, since I upgraded
from Pie to Q, I was able to _keep_ the three-button bottom menu (I read
that if you buy a phone with Q, you don't have that option).

The 3-button navigation isn't broken so gesture navigation doesn't fix it.
o So I turned gesture navigation off after only a few minutes' testing

Q: Settings > System > Gestures > System Navigation > {choose one}
Where the three choices for "System Navigation" are:
1. Gesture navigation
2. 3-button navigation
3. One Button Nav

I'm sure "Gesture Navigation" is fruitful, but the three button navigation
works fine for me so it fixes something that isn't broken (IMHO).
--
(It always amazes me that big companies, like Google, can't have a single
person check the capitalization and naming of menus, even once, for
consistency, which this lacks for sure. If they put me in charge, I'd fix
it, but that's another thing altogether.)

[Arlen Holder]

UPDATE:

Another annoyance _none_ of the reviews informed me about Android Q
is how they apparently reverted back to closing all background apps.

o In Nougat, my $130 LG Stylo 3 Plus had the old "one-by-one" method
o In Pie, my $100 Moto G7 used a new "one-time-clear" button method
o In Q, that Moto G7 now reverted back to the old "one-by-one" method

That is, in Pie, to clear all background apps:
a. You hit the bottom-right square
b. You swiped right to expose the "clear" button
c. You hit that "clear" button (which closed all background apps)

Now, in Q, to clear, it's back (apparently) to the old method:
a. You hit the bottom-right square
b. You select a single app and swipe up, to clear it
c. One by one, you select each app individually to clear it

I kind'a liked the Android Pie method.
o So if anyone knows how to get that feature back, let me know.
--
Usenet is wonderful when everyone pitches in helpfully with knowledge.

[123456789]

Arlen Holder wrote:

> Another annoyance _none_ of the reviews informed me about Android Q
> is how they apparently reverted back to closing all background apps.

> Now, in Q, to clear, it's back (apparently) to the old method: a.
> You hit the bottom-right square b. You select a single app and swipe
> up, to clear it c. One by one, you select each app individually to
> clear it

> I kind'a liked the Android Pie method. o So if anyone knows how to
> get that feature back, let me know.

In both my Samsung Android 10 devices (S10+ and Tab S4) there is a
"Close All" button at the bottom of the background apps screen. So
apparently it depends on the device.

And the background apps button (on the bottom navigation bar) is on the
left in these Samsung devices which is also backwards from all my other
Android toys. Actually I like it better this way because I use the back
button more often and it is easier to reach on the tablet.

BTW the official name of Android 10 is Android 10. Google stopped
naming them after deserts (or letters) with Pie. I was glad because I
could never remember which was which. And because they made me hungry...

[Arlen Holder]

On Sun, 5 Jul 2020 20:27:28 -0700, 123456789 wrote:

> In both my Samsung Android 10 devices (S10+ and Tab S4) there is a
> "Close All" button at the bottom of the background apps screen. So
> apparently it depends on the device.

I just looked and my Moto G7 Android 10 doesn't have that "close all"
button (which it used to have at the far left in Android 9).

As far as I can tell, I have to close the background apps one by one, which
is how Nougat was for my LG Stylo 3 Plus.

It could be dependent on the device and, perhaps, on the launcher, as my
launcher is Nova free.

[Arlen Holder]

> Incognito in Google Maps
> Another thing to note when you compare Android 9 and 10 is that Google
> Maps will operate in incognito mode. The users will now be able to look
> for and navigate places privately without having the data linked back
> to their accounts.

The new Google Maps "incognito mode"
<https://support.google.com/maps/thread/18141335>
Seems to be the default for Android 10.

I only tested it for a few minutes, where I don't have my phone set to a
Google Account (so I'm always in incognito mode, so to speak, anyway).

Given I have no login to Google Maps, there seems to be more functionality
in Google Maps in Android 10 than there was in Android 9 so maybe they
updated the map app too? Dunno. But the functionality is back, sort of, to
what it was in Android 7 without a login in that you can get DIRECTIONS
again (even without a Google login).

So now we're back to (what I remember as the functionality of) Nougat,
where, without any login to Google on the phone, the Google Map app now
does DIRECTIONS and ROUTING (which it didn't do in Android 9).

This is good because I had to circumvent Google Maps in Android 9 by using
the world-wide address-search best-in-class feature of Google Maps on a
privacy-aware browser (http://maps.google.com), and then capture the
coordinates of the given address, and then paste those so-called GPS
coordinates into an offline map app, which then routed me to my
destination.

The two things Google Maps does best was available, without a login, using
the privacy-aware web browser, which is:
a. Traffic
b. Address lookup

Now I can do both those things _without_ needing to use the web browser
since Google Maps seems to allow both now, even when you don't have a login
to Google set up on your Android phone.

I haven't tested this on the road though, so consider this preliminary good
news for user privacy in that the average person, on Android 10, now has
the privacy I had to set up with those workarounds on Android 9.

See also:
o Does anyone know how or if Google associates your identity
with your Google Map navigation activities?
<https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/comp.mobile.android/um2niVH0oYU>

o Is there a non Google freeware traffic app
<https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/comp.mobile.android//Ve_2cgliiGk>

o What decent free offline no-login privacy-enabled road map apps
exist for Android users to enjoy?
<https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/comp.mobile.android/YadPNimUcu8>

[Arlen Holder]

UPDATE:

I'd have to check my screenshots from the past, but it seems in Android 10
there are two new "Default apps" settings (that were not in Android 9):

o Android 10 Settings > Apps & notifications > Default apps >
1. Assist app -> Screenshot Assistant
2. Browser app -> Tor Browser
3. Call redirecting app -> None (I think this is new!)
4. Caller ID & spam app -> None (I think this is new!)
5. Home app -> Nova Launcher
6. Phone app -> Contacts (i.e., SimpleMobileContacts, not Google Contacts!)
7. SMS app -> Pulse

See also:
o How does incoming caller ID work - and more specifically -
can caller ID source data be controlled?
<https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/comp.mobile.android/GMKskP4h0Cs>

[Arlen Holder]

UPDATE:

As I noted in this thread on screenshot autosave features:
o Is there any way to set up 'autosave' for screenshots in Android Pie?
<https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/comp.mobile.android/Vj67Y3mjr50>

The conversion of Android Pie to Android Q on my $100 Moto G7 seems to have
added the autosave feature that wasn't there in Android Pie (at least with
the Nova free launcher it wasn't).

However, that five second interval is forever when you're snapping multiple
screenshots, as I just tried today to document navigation gestures.

The bad news is that there's no explicit "save" button after snapping a
screenshot, but the good news is that, after experimentation, I figured out
that tapping anywhere seems to save the screenshot without having to wait
the seemingly interminable five seconds (which is too long) for the
autosave.

The five seconds should be settable (maybe it is, dunno yet).
o So it's really _not_ an autosave, 'cuz the autosave period is too long.
--
Also the "Share" options after a screenshot (or any share event) got,
instantly, more complex. I'm not sure yet why but I'm sure I'll get used to
it.

[Anssi Saari]

Arlen Holder <arlen...@newmachine.com> writes:

> Those on Android 10... is it worth upgrading from 9 to 10?
> o What are the pitfalls you've experienced & the benefits?

I don't really remember any change that comes up in everyday usage. With
a quick look through the new features... Well, maybe the wifi settings
sharing could be of some use.

So Android 10 can generate a QR code of the network settings and display
it on the screen and another phone can read that. Would've been useful
recently as I got a new phone but didn't know about this. Then again, I
use Barcode Generator to copy wifi passwords around already. The builtin
feature could be more convenient though.

Other than that I can't see anything that matters to me. I don't use
Google's gesture navigation. My Oneplus 6 does have a couple of
lockscreen gestures it recognizes which I find useful, specifically
shortcuts for camera and flashlight.

In privacy, clipboard read access limitation is new. Also apps have a
location permission for never, always or when in foreground. Those I
feel are good improvements.

[Arlen Holder]

On Mon, 06 Jul 2020 14:07:08 +0300, Anssi Saari wrote:

> I don't really remember any change that comes up in everyday usage. With
> a quick look through the new features... Well, maybe the wifi settings
> sharing could be of some use.

Hi Anssi Saari,

Thank you for hazarding your opinion of how little Android 10 appears to be
from Android 9, where I agree that on the surface, almost nothing changes,
particularly, perhaps, due to the defaults being set such that the newer
features (e.g., Google Gestures) are off, by default.

> So Android 10 can generate a QR code of the network settings and display
> it on the screen and another phone can read that. Would've been useful
> recently as I got a new phone but didn't know about this. Then again, I
> use Barcode Generator to copy wifi passwords around already. The builtin
> feature could be more convenient though.

I saw that Android 10 can generate a "guest" QR code so you don't have to
give visitors your WiFi pass phrase, which is nice, I'm sure, in some
circumstances, and where I, like you, find it "interesting", albeit not
something I was clamoring for to be in Android 9.

> Other than that I can't see anything that matters to me.

The things that matter to me are the "privacy" things, both good and bad.

The bad is that NOBODY told me there's a new "advertiser ID" in Android 10,
which I wonder if I'm the only one who realizes it because I don't have one
normally, given I don't set my phone OS to a Google account.

I really _wish_ someone knew this and reported on it since it's a big deal.
o If anyone knows _more_ about it, please let us know as it's a big deal.

> I don't use
> Google's gesture navigation. My Oneplus 6 does have a couple of
> lockscreen gestures it recognizes which I find useful, specifically
> shortcuts for camera and flashlight.

Like you, I tried it, and didn't like it. Given I'm on a Motorola phone, I
already had "chop chop" and "twist" gestures working anyway.

To me, Google Gestures is a solution to a problem I didn't even have.

> In privacy, clipboard read access limitation is new. Also apps have a
> location permission for never, always or when in foreground. Those I
> feel are good improvements.

Thanks for that information where the clipboard read access limitation is
useful and where I need to dig into it more given this recent thread:
o *What common specific Android apps are known to access the clipboard upon mere invocation & without your permission?*
<https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/comp.mobile.android/hdNb3BeYm44>

Also thanks for the hints that location permissions are tightened up,
where, Lord knows, I care deeply about location privacy control.
o *What decent free offline no-login privacy-enabled road map apps exist for Android users to enjoy?*
<https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/comp.mobile.android/YadPNimUcu8>

Like most people who care about their location privacy, this is a boon
because up 'till now, I've turned off location access to _all_ apps, and
then I simply turn it on for the app when I need it.

Now I can skip that step by turning it on only for the one or two (at most)
apps that need it _always_ when running - where - I'll have to think if
_any_ apps need it when running (e.g., Google Maps certainly doesn't need
it to work just fine).

The good news on Google Maps in Android 10 is that, somehow, magically?,
the "app" works differently in Android 10 than it did in Android 9.

I'm not sure if Android 10 itself updated the "app", but in Android 7, on
my LG Stylo 3 Plus, Google Maps worked fine WITHOUT a login, but in Android
9 on my Moto G7, a login was required for the maps to work (so, of course,
I worked around that issue by clever use of other apps thanks to help here)
o *Does anyone know how or if Google associates your identity with your Google Map navigation activities?*
<https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/comp.mobile.android/um2niVH0oYU>

The good news is that (magically?) Android 10 changed how the Google Maps
"app" works, in that Google Maps is again back to the functionality of
Android 7, where you can both ROUTE and get DIRECTIONS without logging into
the Google Maps app (bearing in mind I don't even have a Google account on
my Android phones).

In summary, Android 10 is three things to me in terms of good/ok/bad:
1. Good -> better privacy (e.g., location controls & ingognito Maps app)
2. OK -> some new functionality but overall, rather transparent
3. Bad -> A brand new concept of an app-related "advertiser id"

That last item sucks.

[Arlen Holder]

Another interesting "privacy" feature of Android 10, is, apparently:
"randomized MAC addresses by default"
<https://tr2.cbsistatic.com/hub/i/2019/06/04/d390bc2c-33a3-4def-8d19-1d2c49ef2b8d/macb.jpg>

o *MAC address randomization*
<https://developer.android.com/about/versions/10/privacy/changes>
"On devices that run Android 10 or higher, the system transmits
randomized MAC addresses by default.

If your app handles an enterprise use case, the platform provides
APIs for several operations related to MAC addresses:

Obtain randomized MAC address: Device owner apps and profile owner
apps can retrieve the randomized MAC address assigned to a specific
network by calling getRandomizedMacAddress().

Obtain actual, factory MAC address: Device owner apps can retrieve
a device's actual hardware MAC address by calling getWifiMacAddress().
This method is useful for tracking fleets of devices."

o *How to enable a randomized MAC address in Android 10*
<https://www.techrepublic.com/article/how-to-enable-a-randomized-mac-address-in-android-10/>

"Don't let your Android's MAC address give away your location,
use a Randomized MAC address instead."

The only problem is that when I checked, I couldn't find this menu:
o Do you have that same menu on Android 10?
1. Open the Settings app.
2. Tap Network & Internet.
3. Tap Wi-Fi.
4. Tap the gear icon associated with the wireless connection to be configured.
5. Tap Advanced.
6. Tap Privacy.
7. Tap Use Randomized MAC
<https://tr2.cbsistatic.com/hub/i/2019/06/04/d390bc2c-33a3-4def-8d19-1d2c49ef2b8d/macb.jpg>

[Arlen Holder]

Update...

For those of you still on Android 9 (which I have still on some phones),
this article purports to give you a half dozen features of Android 10 that
you can get, separately, for Android Pie, by installing these apps:

o *How To Get Android Q Features On Your Old Smartphone Right Now*
<https://fossbytes.com/how-to-get-android-q-features-on-any-phone/>
1. Bubbles Feature [DirectChat]
2. iPhone-like gestures [Fluid Navigation Gestures]
3. Pixel Launcher [Customised Pixel Launcher]
4. *New Permissions* [Bouncer]
5. Live Captions [Live Transcribe]
6. Digital Wellbeing [ActionDash]

The one I would think is most interesting for privacy aware folks is the $1
"Bouncer" app, which the article claims:
"The Bouncer app gives you the ability to grant permissions temporarily.
And not just the location which is the case for Android Q, but also for
the camera, storage, and all others... Moreover, you can also schedule
the permission for a certain period."
<https://fossbytes.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/07/Boucer-Android-app.jpg>

[Anssi Saari]

Arlen Holder <arlen...@newmachine.com> writes:

> The only problem is that when I checked, I couldn't find this menu:
> o Do you have that same menu on Android 10?
> 1. Open the Settings app.
> 2. Tap Network & Internet.
> 3. Tap Wi-Fi.
> 4. Tap the gear icon associated with the wireless connection to be configured.
> 5. Tap Advanced.
> 6. Tap Privacy.
> 7. Tap Use Randomized MAC
> <https://tr2.cbsistatic.com/hub/i/2019/06/04/d390bc2c-33a3-4def-8d19-1d2c49ef2b8d/macb.jpg>

I actually do on my Oneplus 6. My other phone is a Nokia 7.2 and I can't
find that setting there. I tried to see if the MAC address is randomized
and it doesn't seem to be. BTW, point 4 is important, I thought at first
I don't have the setting since I tapped on the network name and not the
gear.

Also, quite disappointingly, like on the web page the choices are Use
randomized MAC (default) and Use device MAC but every wifi network was
set to Use device MAC which wasn't supposed to be the default. Oh well,
good time to clean up what networks I have and set the address to
random.

[Arlen Holder]

On Tue, 07 Jul 2020 23:20:30 +0300, Anssi Saari wrote:

>> The only problem is that when I checked, I couldn't find this menu:
>> o Do you have that same menu on Android 10?
>> 1. Open the Settings app.
>> 2. Tap Network & Internet.
>> 3. Tap Wi-Fi.
>> 4. Tap the gear icon associated with the wireless connection to be configured.
>> 5. Tap Advanced.
>> 6. Tap Privacy.
>> 7. Tap Use Randomized MAC
>> <https://tr2.cbsistatic.com/hub/i/2019/06/04/d390bc2c-33a3-4def-8d19-1d2c49ef2b8d/macb.jpg>
>
> I actually do on my Oneplus 6. My other phone is a Nokia 7.2 and I can't
> find that setting there. I tried to see if the MAC address is randomized
> and it doesn't seem to be. BTW, point 4 is important, I thought at first
> I don't have the setting since I tapped on the network name and not the
> gear.

Thanks for that confirmation of some Android 10 phones having it and some
not, as I get easily to step 4 (where, you are correct, you have to hit the
green gear icon at the right of the current Wi-Fi connection) which brings
me to step 5, which works fine.

But there is no step 6 on my Android 10 menus, but checking just now, I
realized I'm 100% on VPN all the time, so, um, maybe, that's why?

Dunno yet. But it would be good for others on Android 10 to check for us.

> Also, quite disappointingly, like on the web page the choices are Use
> randomized MAC (default) and Use device MAC but every wifi network was
> set to Use device MAC which wasn't supposed to be the default. Oh well,
> good time to clean up what networks I have and set the address to
> random.

Thank you again, for letting us know the default didn't set to random Mac
addresses, where you're ahead of the rest of us 'cuz you can _find_ the
menu!

Lucky you!

Let's see what others on Android 10 have found out about this new Mac
randomization, which, to me, seems like a no brainer to enable.
--
It's a pleasure discussing a topic with someone who can understand it.

[123456789]

Arlen Holder wrote:

> Let's see what others on Android 10 have found out about this new Mac
> randomization, which, to me, seems like a no brainer to enable.

Both my phone and tablet have the setting. The phone's default was
randomized whereas the tablet's was not (but is now)...

[Dee]

Arlen Holder <arlen...@newmachine.com> wrote in
news:re0p82$7c3$1...@news.mixmin.net:

> The only problem is that when I checked, I couldn't find this
> menu: o Do you have that same menu on Android 10?
> 1. Open the Settings app.
> 2. Tap Network & Internet.
> 3. Tap Wi-Fi.
> 4. Tap the gear icon associated with the wireless connection to be
> configured.
> 5. Tap Advanced.
> 6. Tap Privacy.
> 7. Tap Use Randomized MAC

I have a Google Pixel 3a XL. If I am connected to wifi, I do have this
exact menu. If I am not connected to wifi, then in step 4, I tap the
name of the wifi connection, then tap Privacy, then tap Use Randomized
MAC.

It appears the default is set to Randomized on my phone.

Dee

[Arlen Holder]

Thanks for reporting back purposefully helpfully, as most of us own only a
handful (if that) of phones, so we need everyone to pitch in to understand.

It seems, based on the experiences to date, some Android 10 phones have...
o Some have the Mac randomization for WiFi settings autoset to randomize
o Some need to have the default manually set to randomize
o And some, like mine, don't seem to have that setting at all

Here's what Google says about the HISTORY of Android MAC Randomization:
<https://source.android.com/devices/tech/connect/wifi-mac-randomization>
o Android 8.0 uses randomized MAC addresses when probing for new networks
(while not currently associated with a network)
o In Android 9, you can enable a developer option (disabled by default)
to cause the device to use a randomized MAC address when connecting
to a Wi-Fi network
o In Android 10, MAC randomization is enabled by default
(for client mode, SoftAp, and Wi-Fi Direct)

BTW, MAC randomization is just a single step in privacy, as this article
notes it's not a panacea that negates them tracking you by MAC address:
o *Coming to Android Q: MAC address randomization, new location data*
*permission popup, no more clipboard sniffing.*
<https://www.zdnet.com/article/android-q-to-get-a-ton-of-new-privacy-features/>
"Despite security researchers proving that they can still track devices
with randomized MAC addresses, supporting this feature will reduce the
efficiency of some data harvesting and user tracking operations."
o A study of MAC randomization in mobile devices & when it fails
<https://arxiv.org/pdf/1703.02874v1.pdf> (paper)
<https://arxiv.org/abs/1703.02874v1> (abstract)

Although we need to look at the _date_ on that paper, which is 2017:
o *MAC randomization: A massive failure that leaves iPhones, Android mobes open to tracking*
<https://www.theregister.com/2017/03/10/mac_address_randomization/>
"US Naval Academy researchers report that they were able to track
100 per cent of devices using randomization, regardless of manufacturer,
by exploiting a previously unknown flaw in the way existing wireless
chipsets handle low-level control frames."

"The researchers found that the overwhelming majority of Android devices
are not implementing the available randomization capabilities built into
the Android OS"
--
Well then, those of us on Android 8, to Android 10, let's implement it to
make it harder to be tracked by our unique MAC addresses.