Vodafone discontinues RCS and MMS support.

[Carlos E. R.]

The link I have is in Spanish, but I'll translate it using DeepL.
Someone else can find an English language link.

<https://bandaancha.eu/articulos/vodafone-finiquita-mensajes-chat-rcs-10475>

Vodafone ends RCS chat messages and MMS that enhanced SMS with pictures
and video

Joshua Llorach Wednesday at 12:01

Vodafone's parent company Vodafone is pulling out of the deal that
brought RCS messaging to Spain in coordination with Movistar, Orange and
MásMóvil. The operator is progressively disconnecting customers who use
this protocol. At the same time it announces that enhanced MMS text
messaging will cease to work on its mobile network in mid-March.


End of MMS messages

Vodafone customers have been receiving SMS messages in recent days
informing them of the end of the MMS messaging service on their mobile
network. From 15 March, Vodafone's network will no longer allow this
type of evolved text message to be sent. The operator invites its users
to switch to other messaging apps such as WhatsApp, Messenger or
Telegram if they want to exchange photos, videos or files using its network.

«VF Info: We inform you that Vodafone will stop providing the
multimedia messaging service over mobile network (MMS) from 15/03/2023.
You can continue to use any other messaging application as before, such
as WhatsApp, Messenger or Telegram to send photos, videos or other files
using Vodafone's mobile network.»

The closure of Vodafone's MMS service is further evidence of how
operators have failed to make their networks' native services work in
the face of OTT (Over The Top) arrivals, despite the fact that the
latter use mobile data to carry traffic, such as VoIP calls or instant
messaging without any kind of guarantee as with network services.

MMS (Multimedia Messaging Service) is an enhanced version of SMS (Short
Message System) messages that was designed in the GSM (2G) and UMTS (3G)
mobile telephony era to expand the limited possibilities of text
messages by allowing for more length beyond the 160 characters of SMS,
as well as the inclusion of images and video. At the time, SMS was one
of the operators' most successful services and had become a huge source
of revenue, as it was the only way to communicate with other users
without making a more expensive phone call.

Operators were rubbing their hands in anticipation of what the successor
to SMS would be able to do, especially thanks to the increased speed
that 3G UMTS networks would bring to transporting their content.
However, companies' over-ambitious pricing policy with MMS, where they
charged for the data traffic needed to download it rather than a fixed
price per message, meant that the cost of this type of messaging was
high, exceeding one euro per MMS as soon as an image was added.


The end of RCS chat messaging in Vodafone subsidiaries

After the failure of MMS, came RCS (Rich Communication Services)
messaging, launched by Movistar in Spain under the name Joyn to respond
to the growing dominance of WhatsApp. The lack of compatibility between
terminals discouraged users from taking it as a serious alternative,
despite the fact that, thanks to being a native network service, the
transmission of messages was guaranteed. Google made an effort to
promote this protocol in Spain in 2020 by getting Movistar, Orange,
Vodafone and MásMóvil to agree to support it on their network so that
Android users could use it with the Chat app.

After this 3-year adventure, Vodafone is getting off the train by
ceasing to support this service in all the countries where it operates.
When consulting the conditions on the group's website, the operator
displays a message indicating that customers using this protocol are
being progressively disconnected, setting 31 March as the final date for
the closure of the service.

«SERVICE UPDATE: We regret to announce that RCS Chat will be
discontinued soon. All RCS customers will be gradually disconnected
until 31 March 2023.»

We do not know the reasons behind Vodafone's decision. We have asked the
operator and will add any further developments.

With the end of MMS and RCS, the old SMS messages will become the only
way to send messages natively on Vodafone's network, bringing its
network one step closer to the dumb pipe concept.



Translated with www.DeepL.com/Translator (free version)

--
Cheers,
Carlos E.R.

[Andy Burns]

Carlos E. R. quoted:

> With the end of MMS and RCS, the old SMS messages will become the only
> way to send messages natively on Vodafone's network

Or switch to Google's RCS, I guess?

[Carlos E. R.]

I don't know, I am not a client of them, but of Movistar. And Movistar
use MMS themselves for their own commercials.

But if a large percent of the users here can not receive MMS/RCS, that's
bad. Other ISPs could do the same.

Even if I use Whatsapp, sometimes I send an SMS to relatives at the
other side of the pond, and if RCS disappears it means I have to pay for
each SMS again. About a dollar each.

--
Cheers,
Carlos E.R.

[Andy Burns]

Carlos E. R. wrote:

> On 2023-02-17 19:32, Andy Burns wrote:
>> Carlos E. R. quoted:
>>
>>> With the end of MMS and RCS, the old SMS messages will become the
>>> only way to send messages natively on Vodafone's network
>>
>> Or switch to Google's RCS, I guess?
>
> I don't know, I am not a client of them

My MVNO provides unlimited SMS, charges per MMS, and doesn't provide
RCS. I've been a bit suspicious of using google for RCS.

> but of Movistar. And Movistar
> use MMS themselves for their own commercials.
>
> But if a large percent of the users here can not receive MMS/RCS, that's
> bad. Other ISPs could do the same.
>
> Even if I use Whatsapp, sometimes I send an SMS to relatives at the
> other side of the pond, and if RCS disappears it means I have to pay for
> each SMS again. About a dollar each.

I assumed most of europe had the same unlimited SMS deals as the UK.

[Andy Burnelli]

Hi Andy,

Isn't it a "good thing" that EMS went away?

I admit I have no idea how things work overseas, but here, in the states,
you use SMS and MMS (which handles media) without even thinking about it.

What is this "enhanced MMS" that Carlos is talking about for Vodaphone?

Looking it up, I find this wikipedia which confuses me even more I think.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Enhanced_Messaging_Service
"(EMS) was a cross-industry collaboration between Samsung, Ericsson,
Motorola, Siemens and Alcatel among others, which provided an
application-level extension to Short Message Service (SMS)
for cellular phones available on GSM, TDMA and CDMA networks."

Assuming "Enhanced MMS" is the same as "Enhanced Messaging Service",
the Wikiepedia goes on to say it's deprecated as obsolete.
"EMS was an intermediate technology, between SMS and MMS, providing some
of the features of MMS. EMS was a technology designed to work with
existing networks, but was ultimately made obsolete by MMS."

If that's the case, then shouldn't it be good riddance to EMS?

I apologize if I'm way off the mark because I happen to do just fine with
SMS/MMS in the states so I don't see any need for anything else (even RCS).

[Andy Burnelli]

Andy Burns wrote:

> My MVNO provides unlimited SMS, charges per MMS, and doesn't provide
> RCS. I've been a bit suspicious of using google for RCS.

Hi Andy,

I don't understand why anyone pines for RCS so I will respond to what
you're using to say what I'm using (which is working just fine for me).
<https://i.postimg.cc/L6dFGXVd/tmopromo03.jpg> $100 for 6 lines + $16 tax

In the USA, on T-Mobile postpaid, I get for $25/month per line a "Simple
Choice" plan (which costs more than the regular plan because it gives me
unlimited free slow data overseas) plus an additional $16 monthly tax.

For that $25/line, I get the same deal in the USA and while traveling in
Europe of unlimited SMS texts, and unlimited MMS messages (which includes
media) and free phone calls both ways in the USA (I'm not sure about Canada
and Mexico but they're often included) and free unlimited high speed data.

When I'm in Europe, what changes is the free unlimited data isn't
guaranteed to be fast (as it's always roaming) and there are new charges
for making calls of a couple of dollars a minute (none for reception).

There's an added caveat that SMS is sometimes set to switch to MMS in group
messages and for messages which are very long, but I think that's handled
by the application, where I use the last known good version of PulseSMS.
<https://i.postimg.cc/ZR4jYqdJ/pulsesms05.jpg> PulseSMS last good version

I don't pine for RCS even as Google seems to be desperate to get me to
care. I don't need to know when someone is typing like WhatsApp tells me.
<https://i.postimg.cc/cJFmTXqb/waprivacy01.jpg> WhatsApp contact privacy

With the fact I don't "need" anything else (as far as I know anyway), what
does RCS buy me that I want (because it seems Google wants me to have it)?

[Carlos E. R.]

Yes, I guess so. But doesn't apply to sending to USA or Canada.

I don't know if everyone has unlimited SMS, though. I know some people
who I suspect have to pay for them, because they don't answer me but
wait till they meet me to answer, or answer via wasap when they get
within WiFi coverage.

Also, I don't know if I have to pay for an SMS to another EU country (or
outside of the union).

--
Cheers,
Carlos E.R.

[Carlos E. R.]

On 2023-02-17 20:30, Andy Burnelli wrote:
> Andy Burns wrote:
>
>>> With the end of MMS and RCS, the old SMS messages will become the
>>> only way to send messages natively on Vodafone's network
>>
>> Or switch to Google's RCS, I guess?
>
> Hi Andy,
>
> Isn't it a "good thing" that EMS went away?
>
> I admit I have no idea how things work overseas, but here, in the states,
> you use SMS and MMS (which handles media) without even thinking about it.
>
> What is this "enhanced MMS" that Carlos is talking about for Vodaphone?

Translation error by DeepL, and missed by me on checking.

The phrase "At the same time it announces that enhanced MMS text
messaging" should be "At the same time it announces that enhanced text
messaging aka MMS"

...

> I apologize if I'm way off the mark because I happen to do just fine with
> SMS/MMS in the states so I don't see any need for anything else (even RCS).

The implication is that you will not be able to send MMS to your German
friends if you or them are in the Vodafone network, nor the reverse.

For them, their phones are probably using RCS automatically when sending
an SMS, which is of importance to them when sending to you because it is
gratis, but SMS is not.

--
Cheers,
Carlos E.R.

[sms]

On 2/17/2023 10:50 AM, Carlos E. R. wrote:

<snip>

> Even if I use Whatsapp, sometimes I send an SMS to relatives at the
> other side of the pond, and if RCS disappears it means I have to pay for
> each SMS again. About a dollar each.

Get someone in the U.S. to get you a Google Voice account and use it for
SMS in the U.S.. But you can't send SMS outside the U.S. (and perhaps
Canada), even for a fee.

[VanguardLH]

MMS had vulnerability to deliver a weaponized text (aka Stagefright)
that executed code on the recipient's phone without involving the user.
It got patched in a later version of Android (which is now an old
version); however, MMS always seems to have vulnerabilities. In 2020, a
vulnerability was found in the Skia graphics library allowing another
weaponized (remote code execution without user intervention)
vulnerability.

On my phone, I have group messaging disabled in the Messages app.
Instead of sending an MMS message when there are multiple recipients, a
message gets sent for each recipient. Been a long time since I had a
cellular plan that had a low quota, or any quota, on texting.

I don't like texting as it promotes senders to excessively abbreviate,
and use very poor grammar. While lots of users suck at structuring an
e-mail message, that communication venue does prod more cogitation in
composing a message than does texting. After all, if someone needs more
than 160 characters to use SMS, I feel they should then be using e-mail.
MMS was to enhance SMS in trying to keep cellular users tied to using
that venue instead of using e-mail to overcome the SMS size limit.

There are users, like me, that disable automatic MMS retrieval. THe
user decides if they get the oversized message, or not. This is like
with e-mail clients where you can configure them to NOT retrieve
huge-sized messages, like some boob wanting to send you their new baby
or vacation videos.

Plain text and MMS messages are considered insecure. They leak
meta-data and allow telcos to get at your data. Other messaging apps
should still work, like WhatsApp, that do end-to-end encryption on
messages.

To be honest, I bit skewed in my opinion of texting: I don't like it.
Most text senders are crappy composers.

[Joerg Lorenz]

Am 17.02.23 um 19:20 schrieb Carlos E. R.:

>
> The link I have is in Spanish, but I'll translate it using DeepL.
> Someone else can find an English language link.
>
> <https://bandaancha.eu/articulos/vodafone-finiquita-mensajes-chat-rcs-10475>
>
> Vodafone ends RCS chat messages and MMS that enhanced SMS with pictures
> and video
>
> Joshua Llorach Wednesday at 12:01

RCS is dead since its invention by Nokia 2008. It never got traction.
Google thought it would succeed against iMessage and WhatsApp. Did not
work. Google is left out in this domain of instant messaging.

The Rich Communication Suite industry initiative[11] was formed by a
group of industry promoters in 2007. In February 2008 the GSM
Association officially became the project home of RCS and an RCS
steering committee was established by the organisation.

The steering committee specified the definition, testing, and
integration of the services in the application suite known as
RCS.[12][13][14] Three years later, the RCS project released a new
specification – RCS-e (e = 'enhanced'), which included various
iterations of the original RCS specifications. The GSMA program is now
called Rich Communication Services.[15]

The GSMA published the Universal Profile in November 2016.[16] The
Universal Profile is a single GSMA specification for advanced
communications. Carriers that deploy the Universal Profile guarantee
interconnection with other carriers. 47 mobile network operators, 11
manufacturers, and 2 OS providers (Google and Microsoft) have announced
their support.[17] Google's Jibe Cloud platform is an implementation of
the RCS Universal Profile, designed to help carriers launch RCS quickly
and scale easily.[18]

Samsung is the major device original equipment manufacturer (OEM) to
support RCS. Samsung RCS capable devices have been commercially launched
in Europe since 2012 and in the United States since 2015.

Google supports RCS on Android devices with its Android SMS app
Messages. In April 2018, it was reported that Google would be
transferring the team that was working on its Google Allo messaging
service to work on a wider RCS implementation.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rich_Communication_Services

> End of MMS messages

In Switzerland the providers pulled the plug a while ago. Too expensive
and almost nobody uses in a world of WhatsApp, Signal, Telegram and
iMessage.

--
Gutta cavat lapidem (Ovid)

[Joerg Lorenz]

Am 17.02.23 um 19:32 schrieb Andy Burns:

RCS is dead.

[Joerg Lorenz]

Am 17.02.23 um 20:27 schrieb Andy Burns:

SMS is practically free everywhere.

[Joerg Lorenz]

Am 17.02.23 um 20:45 schrieb Carlos E. R.:

> On 2023-02-17 20:27, Andy Burns wrote:
>> Carlos E. R. wrote:
>>
>>> On 2023-02-17 19:32, Andy Burns wrote:
>>>> Carlos E. R. quoted:
>>>>
>>>>> With the end of MMS and RCS, the old SMS messages will become the
>>>>> only way to send messages natively on Vodafone's network
>>>>
>>>> Or switch to Google's RCS, I guess?
>>>
>>> I don't know, I am not a client of them
>>
>> My MVNO provides unlimited SMS, charges per MMS, and doesn't provide
>> RCS.   I've been a bit suspicious of using google for RCS.
>>
>>> but of Movistar. And Movistar use MMS themselves for their own
>>> commercials.
>>>
>>> But if a large percent of the users here can not receive MMS/RCS,
>>> that's bad. Other ISPs could do the same.
>>>
>>> Even if I use Whatsapp, sometimes I send an SMS to relatives at the
>>> other side of the pond, and if RCS disappears it means I have to pay
>>> for each SMS again. About a dollar each.
>>
>> I assumed most of europe had the same unlimited SMS deals as the UK.
>>
>
> Yes, I guess so. But doesn't apply to sending to USA or Canada.

How come? Here it does but nowadays people agree on a messenger and have
much more options. And better privacy if the right one is used.

[Joerg Lorenz]

Am 18.02.23 um 08:12 schrieb Joerg Lorenz:

BTW a lot of friends and relatives live in North America. Usually
iMessage is used.

[Joerg Lorenz]

Am 18.02.23 um 02:35 schrieb sms:

North America is lagging Asia and Europe by 5-10 years in mobile
telecommunication.

[Theo]

Joerg Lorenz <hugy...@gmx.ch> wrote:
> Am 17.02.23 um 19:20 schrieb Carlos E. R.:
> >
> > The link I have is in Spanish, but I'll translate it using DeepL.
> > Someone else can find an English language link.
> >
> > <https://bandaancha.eu/articulos/vodafone-finiquita-mensajes-chat-rcs-10475>
> >
> > Vodafone ends RCS chat messages and MMS that enhanced SMS with pictures
> > and video
> >
> > Joshua Llorach Wednesday at 12:01
>
> RCS is dead since its invention by Nokia 2008. It never got traction.
> Google thought it would succeed against iMessage and WhatsApp. Did not
> work. Google is left out in this domain of instant messaging.

Google has burned their credibility with their complete inability to have a
messaging strategy:
https://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2021/08/a-decade-and-a-half-of-instability-the-history-of-google-messaging-apps/

The problem being that RCS depends on carriers, and carriers are frequently
not interested. Which is how they can 'withdraw' support for it, for
something that should only need an internet connection. And it's tied to
phone numbers, which means you can't share access between your phone and
tablet, or phone and smartwatch, without expensive carrier awkwardness (LTE
hardware and special number-sharing plans).

Had Google had a (single, not 22 of them) plausible iMessage competitor that
had an iOS app, then maybe that would have succeeded. Leaving it down to
carriers is a recipe for patchy and half-baked adoption.

Theo

[Theo]

Andy Burns <use...@andyburns.uk> wrote:
> I assumed most of europe had the same unlimited SMS deals as the UK.

I don't get unlimited SMS (it's 2p each on my PAYG tariff), and I suspect
many other people on PAYG across Europe don't either. It's only when you go
on the monthly-bundle plans that it starts showing up as included.

I've never seen MMS on a tariff I would actually want to use - seen rates
like 50p/MMS which are just ridiculous. So not surprising that nobody used
it.

Theo

[Carlos E.R.]

If your folk agree on using a messenger, then all is fine. But if they
don't, I have to send SMS, and pay for it, unless they also have RCS,
and then it is free.

--
Cheers, Carlos.

[Joerg Lorenz]

Am 18.02.23 um 12:24 schrieb Theo:

> Google has burned their credibility with their complete inability to have a
> messaging strategy:
> https://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2021/08/a-decade-and-a-half-of-instability-the-history-of-google-messaging-apps/
>
> The problem being that RCS depends on carriers, and carriers are frequently
> not interested. Which is how they can 'withdraw' support for it, for
> something that should only need an internet connection. And it's tied to
> phone numbers, which means you can't share access between your phone and
> tablet, or phone and smartwatch, without expensive carrier awkwardness (LTE
> hardware and special number-sharing plans).
>
> Had Google had a (single, not 22 of them) plausible iMessage competitor that
> had an iOS app, then maybe that would have succeeded. Leaving it down to
> carriers is a recipe for patchy and half-baked adoption.

+1

[Carlos E.R.]

Correct.

I have bundled SMS, but not MMS, which get a ridiculous price similar to
yours. And I know people which have to pay for each SMS they send. Heck,
now that I think, I have a router on a data SIM which could send SMS
initially till the provider locked them out. Not included in the tariff.
Meaning I can not have the router tell me by SMS that the data cap is
near the monthly limit.


The thing is, if you have RCS (both ends), you get the same
functionality as MMS, for free. And plain SMS for free, of course.

Problem is, the indicator when going to send an SMS that is RCS is quite
subtle. In my phone, SMS/MMS is light blue, RCS is dark blue. I can long
tap on a message, then tap on the three dots menu, select details, and
the information says it clearly.

When start typing an RCS, I see that the send arrow has a keylock. If it
is an SMS, the send arrow says "SMS" below it. I haven't tried to
initiate an MMS; but I suppose I'll get the MMS text instead.

Arguably, RCS is /more secure/. It is encrypted instead of plain text -
but google is involved, so imagination is free. A crook will have it
harder, so that is good :-D.


--
Cheers, Carlos.

[nospam]

In article <i8h7cjx...@Telcontar.valinor>, Carlos E.R.

<robin_...@es.invalid> wrote:

> Arguably, RCS is /more secure/. It is encrypted instead of plain text -
> but google is involved, so imagination is free. A crook will have it
> harder, so that is good :-D.

rcs encryption is optional. google uses its own for their messaging
app, which is not the same as others.

[Carlos E.R.]

Mmm.

Well, the sample I tested my end is a Motorola, and the other end is a
Samsung. I see the keylock, so encryption is happening.

Then, on somecases the padlock might not show.

--
Cheers, Carlos.

[sms]

On 2/18/2023 10:16 AM, Carlos E.R. wrote:

<snip>

> Arguably, RCS is /more secure/. It is encrypted instead of plain text -
> but google is involved, so imagination is free. A crook will have it
> harder, so that is good :-D.

Ironically, it's the U.S. where MMS is still heavily used. iPhone users
use iMessage but Android users are more likely to use SMS and MMS. I
recently set up a Mac Mini with the AirMessage server so I can send and
receive iMessages, and do FaceTime, from my Android devices.

WhatsApp is gaining popularity in the U.S., but it's nowhere like its
level of use in Europe and India. China uses WeChat (some stores in my
area even take WeChat Pay, and not just Asian markets). Taiwan and Japan
use Line. South Korea uses KakaoTalk. It's just too late for RCS to make
much of an impact, which is too bad since it should be the universal
replacement for SMS and MMS.

I use WhatsApp a lot because my daughter rents an in-law unit in the Bay
Area where her cellular coverage is not great but she has fast Wi-Fi.
Her phone (Moto X4) doesn't support Wi-Fi calling but she likes her
phone because of its small size and the headphone jack. I may get her a
Pixel 6a or 7 and tell her that her old phone won't work anymore on
Verizon and that she'll just have to live without a headphone jack.

[AJL]

On 2/18/2023 1:50 PM, sms wrote:

> I may get her [daughter] a Pixel 6a or 7 and tell her that her old

> phone won't work anymore on Verizon and that she'll just have to
> live without a headphone jack.

My Galaxy S10+ works using a USB-C to headphone jack adapter. Perhaps
the Pixel will work with an adapter too and she won't have to give up
her headphone jack...

[VanguardLH]

Did they get rid of the headphone jack figuring users moved or were
moving to Bluetooth headphones? Those are pretty cheap now (hell, I've
seen them selling at $0.01, but with $3.99 shipping, so $4), and
eliminate the nuisance of a cable bouncing around or snapping on
something.

[nospam]

an adapter will certainly work, but even easier, get usb-c headphones.

it's a complete non-issue.

[sms]

I'm sure it will work with the dongle. It's just a bit of a hassle.

My wife and my sister both have an S10E which was the last smallish
Android that was flagship level (Qualcomm Snapdragon 855 for their U.S.
versions) and that also had both a headphone jack and a MicroSD card slot.

[sms]

You can still use Bluetooth headphones even when there is a headphone
jack, but there are some advantages to wired headphones:
1. No separate battery to keep charged
2. Acts as an antenna for the FM radio (I like this at my gym because
they broadcast the audio program from the televisions on LPFM)
3. Nice to only carry one set of headphones on trips, that also works
with the airplane's AV system.

Besides headphones, there are many other peripherals that can use the
headphone jack.

[AJL]

On 2/18/2023 5:22 PM, sms wrote:

> You can still use Bluetooth headphones even when there is a
> headphone jack, but there are some advantages to wired headphones: 1.
> No separate battery to keep charged 2. Acts as an antenna for the FM
> radio (I like this at my gym because they broadcast the audio program
> from the televisions on LPFM) 3. Nice to only carry one set of
> headphones on trips, that also works with the airplane's AV system.

I have a favorite set of wired headphones for my music. I've yet to find
any BT headphones that match them for fidelity or volume. But of course
that's a YMMV thing...

[AJL]

On 2/18/2023 5:16 PM, sms wrote:

> My wife and my sister both have an S10E which was the last smallish
> Android that was flagship level (Qualcomm Snapdragon 855 for their
> U.S. versions) and that also had both a headphone jack and a MicroSD
> card slot.

I seldom use the headphone jack or card slot on my S10+ so it won't
break my heart (much) if my next phone doesn't have them. As always YMMV...

[AJL]

On 2/18/2023 5:13 PM, nospam wrote:

> an adapter will certainly work, but even easier, get usb-c
> headphones. it's a complete non-issue.

Agreed IF you only have one device. I have several devices with various
connectors and only ONE favorite fantastical sounding set of wired
headphones. As always YMMV...

[AJL]

On 2/18/2023 5:13 PM, VanguardLH wrote:
> AJL <noe...@none.com> wrote:

>> My Galaxy S10+ works using a USB-C to headphone jack adapter.

> Did they get rid of the headphone jack figuring users moved or were
> moving to Bluetooth headphones?

No. My Galaxy S10+ does have a headphone jack. I bought USB-C adapters
for my other devices and was curious if they worked on my phone even
though it had a headphone jack and was surprised to find that they do...

[nospam]

In article <tsrq46$5t2q$2...@dont-email.me>, sms

<scharf...@geemail.com> wrote:

>
> Besides headphones, there are many other peripherals that can use the
> headphone jack.

not really. although a few did exist, very few people actually used
them, and they've been replaced with bluetooth versions that are far
more convenient and reliable.

[nospam]

In article <tsrpp1$5t2q$1...@dont-email.me>, sms

<scharf...@geemail.com> wrote:

> >
> > My Galaxy S10+ works using a USB-C to headphone jack adapter. Perhaps
> > the Pixel will work with an adapter too and she won't have to give up
> > her headphone jack...
>
> I'm sure it will work with the dongle. It's just a bit of a hassle.

it's not in any way a hassle.

[sms]

I do have a set of high-end noise-cancelling headphones that are both
wired and Bluetooth. But we are really trying to minimize what we take
on trips, especially foreign trips where the luggage size restrictions
are more strict. So instead I'll take both Bluetooth noise cancelling
earbuds for the phone and wired earbuds for the airplane. Many of the
newer planes have done away with entertainment systems and just provide
streaming of movies and music to your own phone or tablet, so the
Bluetooth earbugs work fine for that.

[AJL]

On 2/18/2023 6:08 PM, sms wrote:
> On 2/18/2023 4:56 PM, AJL wrote:

>> I have a favorite set of wired headphones for my music. I've yet
>> to find any BT headphones that match them for fidelity or volume.
>> But of course that's a YMMV thing...

> I do have a set of high-end noise-cancelling headphones that are both
> wired and Bluetooth.

The best headphones are always the ones that sound best to you...

> But we are really trying to minimize what we take on trips,
> especially foreign trips where the luggage size restrictions are
> more strict. So instead I'll take both Bluetooth noise cancelling
> earbuds for the phone and wired earbuds for the airplane. Many of the
> newer planes have done away with entertainment systems and just
> provide streaming of movies and music to your own phone or tablet, so
> the Bluetooth earbugs work fine for that.

The last airplane I was on was in 1992 (the last for the duration I
hope). I then used my earbud headphones for my 2 meter handheld. I was
seeing how many repeaters I could chunk while flying across the
country. (If anybody turns me in I'll deny having said it...)

[sms]

On 2/18/2023 4:56 PM, AJL wrote:

nospam is wrong of course™.

There are very few, if any, USB-C earpods with active noise cancellation.

There are some wired analog earpods with ANC (require a battery for the
ANC).

There are some wired USB-C headsets with ANC, i.e.
<https://www.amazon.com/dp/B092KCYHD8>, but they are expensive and
you're not getting the best audio quality since there are not designed
for music.

With USB-C you would not need a separate battery but there just isn't
much of a market for USB-C headphones, headsets, or earpods, just like
there wasn't much of a market for Lightning headphones, headsets, or
earpods. Analog makes more sense since you can use them with an
airplanes AV system, or with a phone by using a USB-C to analog or
Lightning to analog dongle.

Certainly the decontenting of phones by removing the headphone jack is
an annoyance, but at least there's a workaround. With wireless charging
it's less of an issue since it's easy to charge the phone at the same
time you have an analog adapter plugged in.

[nospam]

In article <tss043$6hb5$1...@dont-email.me>, sms

<scharf...@geemail.com> wrote:

> There are very few, if any, USB-C earpods with active noise cancellation.

there are several, and even more that use bluetooth

> With USB-C you would not need a separate battery

while that is true, you still have a dangling cord that always gets in
the way of things.

> but there just isn't
> much of a market for USB-C headphones, headsets, or earpods, just like
> there wasn't much of a market for Lightning headphones, headsets, or
> earpods.

actually, there are several companies making either or both. however,
more people want bluetooth which work on android, ios, mac, windows pc
and many other hosts, so that's where the companies focus their
efforts.

>
> Certainly the decontenting of phones by removing the headphone jack is
> an annoyance,

except it's not, since most people use the built in speakers or
bluetooth.

[AJL]

On 2/18/2023 7:04 PM, sms wrote:
> On 2/18/2023 4:56 PM, AJL wrote:
>> On 2/18/2023 5:13 PM, nospam wrote:

>>> an adapter will certainly work, but even easier, get usb-c
>>> headphones. it's a complete non-issue.

>> Agreed IF you only have one device. I have several devices with
>> various connectors and only ONE favorite fantastical sounding set
>> of wired headphones. As always YMMV...

> nospam is wrong of course™.

> There are very few, if any, USB-C earpods with active noise
> cancellation.

I've never used or needed NC headphones since I never use them in a
noisy environment, only my home (translation YMMV)...

> There are some wired USB-C headsets with ANC, i.e.
> <https://www.amazon.com/dp/B092KCYHD8>, but they are expensive and
> you're not getting the best audio quality since there are not
> designed for music.

My ears are weak on the highs so I need to adjust using an equalizer.
Best audio quality is an individual taste (translation YMMV)...

> Certainly the decontenting of phones by removing the headphone jack
> is an annoyance,

I seldom listen to music or talk using headphones on my phone so no
annoyance for me (translation YMMV)...

> but at least there's a workaround. With wireless charging it's less
> of an issue since it's easy to charge the phone at the same time you
> have an analog adapter plugged in.

I like my phone's wireless charging because if it rings I just pick it
up and talk, no messing with a wire. (translation...well you know... :)

[sms]

On 2/18/2023 6:46 PM, AJL wrote:

<snip>

> I've never used or needed NC headphones since I never use them in a
> noisy environment, only my home (translation YMMV)...

It does vary! Headphones with ANC are wonderful on airplanes at
cancelling out engine noise. I used to do a lot of long flights to Asia
and it would have been miserable without ANC.

> My ears are weak on the highs so I need to adjust using an equalizer.
> Best audio quality is an individual taste (translation YMMV)...

Still, there are some basic facts about different technologies when it
comes to headphones. aptX is better than AAC and you can definitely hear
the diffence,

>> Certainly the decontenting of phones by removing the headphone jack
>> is an annoyance,
>
> I seldom listen to music or talk using headphones on my phone so no
> annoyance for me (translation YMMV)...

I think that just about everyone at the gym I go to has some sort of
headphones or earpods in their ears while on the treadmills,
ellipticals, bicycles, and rowers. There's a surprising number of wired
headphones and earpods being used with some of the equipment, as well as
with some phones. I'm thinking that some people are bringing their old
phones to the gym and using them essentially as iPods.

>> but at least there's a workaround. With wireless charging it's less
>> of an issue since it's easy to charge the phone at the same time you
>> have an analog adapter plugged in.
>
> I like my phone's wireless charging because if it rings I just pick it
> up and talk, no messing with a wire. (translation...well you know... :)

People that use wired charging are standing in the way of human progress!

[AJL]

On 2/18/2023 8:37 PM, sms wrote:
> On 2/18/2023 6:46 PM, AJL wrote:

>> I've never used or needed NC headphones since I never use them in a
>> noisy environment, only my home (translation YMMV)...

> It does vary!

Got it. I stand corrected....YMDV!!

> Headphones with ANC are wonderful on airplanes at cancelling out
> engine noise. I used to do a lot of long flights to Asia and it
> would have been miserable without ANC.

If your ears had constant ringing that covers most background noise
would NC help? Perhaps not. But then of course YMDV...

>> My ears are weak on the highs so I need to adjust using an
>> equalizer. Best audio quality is an individual taste (translation
>> YMMV)...

> Still, there are some basic facts about different technologies when
> it comes to headphones. aptX is better than AAC and you can

> definitely hear the difference,

Perhaps both would sound bad if ones ears were somewhat degraded. And
random headphone tests and equalizer adjustments were required to make
things sound good TO YOU. But of course YMDV...

> I think that just about everyone at the gym I go to has some sort of
> headphones or earpods in their ears while on the treadmills,

I use my wired headphones on my treadmill. It's in the comfort of my
home. MUCH less crowded (judging from the parking lots) and no noise
that needs to be backgrounded out. But of course YMDV...

> I'm thinking that some people are bringing their old phones to the
> gym and using them essentially as iPods.

Good idea. I used to get Android phones on the sale rack at Target for
under $15 just to play with. They worked just fine for radio and music.

>> I like my phone's wireless charging because if it rings I just
>> pick it up and talk, no messing with a wire. (translation...well
>> you know... :)

> People that use wired charging are standing in the way of human
> progress!

Of course. because YMDV... ;)

[nospam]

In article <tss5hc$9rjl$2...@dont-email.me>, sms

<scharf...@geemail.com> wrote:

> aptX is better than AAC and you can definitely hear
> the diffence,

that is simply false. apple sends aac directly to airpods without an
interim conversion, whereas aptx requires it, making aac technically
better, not that anyone can hear a difference.

[Carlos E.R.]

On 2023-02-18 21:50, sms wrote:
> On 2/18/2023 10:16 AM, Carlos E.R. wrote:
>
> <snip>
>
>> Arguably, RCS is /more secure/. It is encrypted instead of plain text
>> - but google is involved, so imagination is free. A crook will have it
>> harder, so that is good :-D.
>
> Ironically, it's the U.S. where MMS is still heavily used. iPhone users
> use iMessage but Android users are more likely to use SMS and MMS. I
> recently set up a Mac Mini with the AirMessage server so I can send and
> receive iMessages, and do FaceTime, from my Android devices.

I know a group of people in Canada, some with iphones, some with
androids, and they use SMS/MMS to converse. Some have wasap (to converse
with me), but they don't even look at it regularly.

>
> WhatsApp is gaining popularity in the U.S., but it's nowhere like its
> level of use in Europe and India. China uses WeChat (some stores in my
> area even take WeChat Pay, and not just Asian markets). Taiwan and Japan
> use Line. South Korea uses KakaoTalk. It's just too late for RCS to make
> much of an impact, which is too bad since it should be the universal
> replacement for SMS and MMS.
>
> I use WhatsApp a lot because my daughter rents an in-law unit in the Bay
> Area where her cellular coverage is not great but she has fast Wi-Fi.
> Her phone (Moto X4) doesn't support Wi-Fi calling but she likes her
> phone because of its small size and the headphone jack. I may get her a
> Pixel 6a or 7 and tell her that her old phone won't work anymore on
> Verizon and that she'll just have to live without a headphone jack.

My Motorola g52 has a headphone jack, and AFAIK it should support Wi-Fi
calling :-)

Or, you can just use wasap video. Or voice.


--
Cheers, Carlos.

[Carlos E.R.]

I have a pair of BT earphones, and they suffer cuts, which are a
nuisance. Regardless of location. Happens both with tablet and phone.

I also have a pair of "fake" airpods, and although they have fewer cuts
the problem is that the battery doesn't always last even forty minutes.
Maybe one of the two fails at half an hour and I'm left with only one in
the ear. And they are new.

Also, they have an habit of engaging while they are stored in their
enclosure, so that when the phone should play an alarm or a phone call,
it doesn't.

--
Cheers, Carlos.

[nospam]

In article <c2i9cjx...@Telcontar.valinor>, Carlos E.R.

<robin_...@es.invalid> wrote:

>
> I also have a pair of "fake" airpods, and although they have fewer cuts
> the problem is that the battery doesn't always last even forty minutes.
> Maybe one of the two fails at half an hour and I'm left with only one in
> the ear. And they are new.

try real ones. several hours of battery life and no cuts, even at quite
a distance from the source, with noise cancelation on the pros.

[Andy Burns]

Andy Burnelli wrote:

> Andy Burns wrote:
>
>> My MVNO provides unlimited SMS, charges per MMS, and doesn't provide
>> RCS.   I've been a bit suspicious of using google for RCS.
>
> I don't understand why anyone pines for RCS

I wouldn't say I pine for RCS, I'm relatively happy with SMS and will
pay to send the occasional MMS, because I certainly don't do
WhatsApp/Messenger. If my mobile provider had their own RCS, I'd likely
use that, since it'd be something I was paying for as part of my bundle.

If I enable google RCS, I think all my current SMS would go via it, my
provider might think SMS is becoming less important and consider
dropping it, meanwhile google don't have a good track record of keeping
messaging platforms running long-term.

But if I'm not paying google what are they doing with my messages?
They're unlikely to be providing it from the goodness of their heart.

I'd happily use Signal or Telegram, but most of the people I send SMSs
to would look at me funny if I suggested it.

> so I will respond to what
> you're using to say what I'm using (which is working just fine for me).
> <https://i.postimg.cc/L6dFGXVd/tmopromo03.jpg> $100 for 6 lines + $16 tax

It seems that many USA plans cater to a whole family with multiple
devices, that sort of contract is available here, but it's less common.

> In the USA, on T-Mobile postpaid, I get for $25/month per line a "Simple
> Choice" plan (which costs more than the regular plan because it gives me
> unlimited free slow data overseas) plus an additional $16 monthly tax.

£7/month for unlimited UK calls and SMS, 10GB data (soon to double for
the same price) that rolls-over. Roaming to EU countries included,
other countries would cost me.

[Andy Burns]

sms wrote:

> Ironically, it's the U.S. where MMS is still heavily used.

In earlier versions of the stock android messages app, google made the
assumption that MMS was equally useable to anyone as SMS, so when you
sent a group text it would use MMS, not realising that would cost
non-American users a lot more money.

[Andy Burnelli]

Andy Burns wrote:

> I wouldn't say I pine for RCS, I'm relatively happy with SMS and will
> pay to send the occasional MMS, because I certainly don't do
> WhatsApp/Messenger. If my mobile provider had their own RCS, I'd likely
> use that, since it'd be something I was paying for as part of my bundle.

Hi Andy,
Thanks for that purposefully helpful reply of how you feel about SMS, MMS
and RCS, where I probably wouldn't feel any different than you do given I
don't "miss" anything in my current SMS/MMS setup that I'm "supposed" to be
missing, at least according to the competing Google & Apple advertisements.

> If I enable google RCS, I think all my current SMS would go via it, my
> provider might think SMS is becoming less important and consider
> dropping it, meanwhile google don't have a good track record of keeping
> messaging platforms running long-term.

I have to agree that Google's track record sucks for Hangouts and other
messaging apps - although I have to say Google Voice is the _only_ Google
App that does what no other app does - although only on iOS does it do it.

On Android, Google Voice does nefarious things, as do the other Google apps
that require a login, so I don't use them on Android - only on iOS.

> But if I'm not paying google what are they doing with my messages?
> They're unlikely to be providing it from the goodness of their heart.

I think the messenger app is more important to Google than one might think.

I think it's clear, if not from how desperate Steve is to get iMessage on
Android, then from Apple's own emails deposed in the Epic lawsuit that
Apple MANAGEMENT is well aware that iMessage is a shockingly huge glue trap
for teens to pine for their parents to purchase an iPhone over Android.

You know I don't make this stuff up, so if you want, I can dig up the
references, as even I would be shocked that a simple messenger app, of all
things, is why someone pines for one platform over the other.

But Apple isn't stupid so I will not disagree with their own emails.

> I'd happily use Signal or Telegram, but most of the people I send SMSs
> to would look at me funny if I suggested it.

I can't disagree, where I use whatever the _other_ person uses, which, in
the USA, is universally SMS/MMS and for people in Europe, it's WhatsApp.

Steve will tell us it's WeChat for China but I don't communicate with
people on that side of the other pond.

If I _needed_ a secure channel, I'd employ Signal perhaps, but I'm ok with
the lack of privacy on my personal texts which maybe I do 20 a day or so.

>> so I will respond to what
>> you're using to say what I'm using (which is working just fine for me).
>> <https://i.postimg.cc/L6dFGXVd/tmopromo03.jpg> $100 for 6 lines + $16 tax
>
> It seems that many USA plans cater to a whole family with multiple
> devices, that sort of contract is available here, but it's less common.

I just called T-Mobile to see if I was getting the $5 discount for
autopayment that this recent thread talked about going away in May.
*T-Mobile is Ending $5 Per Line Autopay Discount if You Pay with a Credit Card*
<https://groups.google.com/g/comp.mobile.android/c/rzXt4soq9zY>

Turns out my plan is $60 for the Simple Choice for six lines (really four
lines because two are free for life data-only 200MB/month tablet plans) but
when I traveled to Germany a few years ago, I added the $40 extra Simple
Global option, so my plan is now $100/month for four lines + $16 in fees.
<https://i.postimg.cc/nhpbcP50/tmopromo04.jpg> $100 for 6 lines + $16 fees

I've had Verizon but I dropped them when they upped my two-year contract
(in the days of contracts) simply for replacing a broken Kyocera, and then
I had AT&T but I dropped them after complaining to the FCC that they
wouldn't allow me to have a non-data plan for what they arbitrarily called
a "smartphone" in those days - and that's why I moved to T-Mobile long ago.

They're all about the same in the USA, despite Steve always shilling for
Verizon (where he admitted they pay him for some of his services in some
way, although it's confusing to me why or how Verizon would even do that).

Despite Steve claiming T-Mobile has no coverage, I get pretty good signal
now that I got a handful of free 5G phones well before I cared about 5G.
<https://i.postimg.cc/zf9w1tGZ/speedtest07.jpg> 255Mbps 5G home speed

>> In the USA, on T-Mobile postpaid, I get for $25/month per line a "Simple
>> Choice" plan (which costs more than the regular plan because it gives me
>> unlimited free slow data overseas) plus an additional $16 monthly tax.
>
> £7/month for unlimited UK calls and SMS, 10GB data (soon to double for
> the same price) that rolls-over. Roaming to EU countries included,
> other countries would cost me.

That 7 pounds sterling per line seems like a third of my costs per line!

My $116/month plan is about 96 pounds sterling, which is about 24 pounds
sterling for each line (ignoring the two free data-only SIM cards).

At 1/3rd the price of what I'm paying, it makes sense that you're OK with
paying a bit extra for MMS. And 10GB of data is fine for an adult.

Two of my kids (who are adults but they're still "my kids" on my plan) use
about 40GB per month each, but my wife and I use only about 1GB or less.

My point is that 10GB for you and no MMS seems like a good deal given
my costs appears to be three times what yours is, and I don't need
the unlimited data - but I do use the MMS a lot nowadays with the kids
as there are grandchildren involved - and I love to see their photos!

Note that there is no "roll over" provision in my T-Mobile family plan.

As for RCS, I really don't see what the big stink is about, nor do I see
how iMessage could be so sticky to kids - but Apple isn't stupid - so I
assume their own emails tell the truth (for once) which is that iMessage is
perhaps the biggest glue trap that Apple ever built in the walled garden.

I don't understand it - but I have to believe it even if I don't understand
it just as I have to believe that Google is desperate for us to want RCS
even though I don't see any major advantage to RCS for me (or for you).
--
Posted out of the goodness of my heart to disseminate useful information
which, in this case, is to carry on an adult conversation across the pond.

[Nic]

nospam wrote:

>> Besides headphones, there are many other peripherals that can use the
>> headphone jack.
>
> not really. although a few did exist, very few people actually used
> them, and they've been replaced with bluetooth versions that are far
> more convenient and reliable.

Why do you defend the loss of the headphone jack when there is zero
advantages (and many disadvantages) with a phone that doesn't have it.

[Carlos E.R.]

On 2023-02-19 14:39, Andy Burns wrote:
> Andy Burnelli wrote:
>
>> Andy Burns wrote:
>>
>>> My MVNO provides unlimited SMS, charges per MMS, and doesn't provide
>>> RCS.   I've been a bit suspicious of using google for RCS.
>>
>> I don't understand why anyone pines for RCS
>
> I wouldn't say I pine for RCS, I'm relatively happy with SMS and will
> pay to send the occasional MMS, because I certainly don't do
> WhatsApp/Messenger.  If my mobile provider had their own RCS, I'd likely
> use that, since it'd be something I was paying for as part of my bundle.
>
> If I enable google RCS, I think all my current SMS would go via it, my
> provider might think SMS is becoming less important and consider
> dropping it, meanwhile google don't have a good track record of keeping
> messaging platforms running long-term.

No, enabling the google messaging app to do RCS doesn't necessarily mean
the ISP goes hands off. They are involved.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rich_Communication_Services


WhatsApp, which is the most popular messaging app here, is owned by
Facebook, now another name. Not saints.


--
Cheers, Carlos.

[sms]

On 2/19/2023 4:36 AM, Carlos E.R. wrote:

>snip>

> My Motorola g52 has a headphone jack, and AFAIK it should support Wi-Fi
> calling :-)

The Moto X that was sold by Verizon did support Wi-Fi calling. It turns
out that the unlocked model sold at stores, which is what I bought, did not.

> Or, you can just use wasap video. Or voice.

That's what we do. Google Voice would also work.

[sms]

On 2/19/2023 4:42 AM, Carlos E.R. wrote:

<snip>

> Also, they have an habit of engaging while they are stored in their
> enclosure, so that when the phone should play an alarm or a phone call,
> it doesn't.

Forty minutes is pretty awful. My Bluetooth earbuds go 6-8 hours (the
manufacturer claims 10 hours). I didn't get Airpods because they don't
yet support aptX (see
<https://www.notebookcheck.net/Apple-clarifies-lack-of-high-definition-Bluetooth-codec-support-for-AirPods-Max-and-AirPods-Pro-2.670484.0.html>),
I got these
<https://www.zdnet.com/product/monolith-m-twe-wireless-earbuds/> which
are now $87.49 from Amazon <https://www.amazon.com/dp/B08P6B3WHW> but
are $129.99 direct from Monoprice
<https://www.monoprice.com/product?p_id=41500>.

[nospam]

In article <tstdmo$dqb0$3...@dont-email.me>, sms

<scharf...@geemail.com> wrote:

> My Bluetooth earbuds go 6-8 hours (the
> manufacturer claims 10 hours). I didn't get Airpods because they don't
> yet support aptX

nor will they, because they support aac directly from the phone
skipping the interim conversion that aptx requires.

not that it matters since there is no noticeable difference in sound
quality in objective tests. the limiting factor is the transducer
itself and the quality of the sound file, not the protocol.

[Carlos E.R.]

LOL.

You don't know him. You have just started a flamewar :-D

The locals just ignore him when he says silly things like that :-P

--
Cheers, Carlos.

[Andy Burnelli]

My PulseSMS (last known good version) messenger has an option for that.
*Use Group MMS = on/off*
(When disabled, group messages will be sent out as individual SMS
to each of the recipients.)
*Convert to MMS = Never,After 1, after 2, after 3, after 4 messages*
(Long messages will be sent as MMS instead of individual SMS.)

Which is my main point that on Android there are so many good features in
messaging apps that I can't figure out yet why people even want RCS.

Although I just looked and there are "Delivery Reports" in PulseSMS which
are off by default (I just turned that switch on to see what it does).
*Delivery Reports = on/off*
(Most carriers do not support this option. It is not RCS.)

What does RCS give you that a well written app doesn't get you already?

[sms]

You're new here, huh?

[Carlos E.R.]

On 2023-02-19 15:48, sms wrote:
> On 2/19/2023 4:36 AM, Carlos E.R. wrote:
>
> >snip>
>
>> My Motorola g52 has a headphone jack, and AFAIK it should support
>> Wi-Fi calling :-)
>
> The Moto X that was sold by Verizon did support Wi-Fi calling. It turns
> out that the unlocked model sold at stores, which is what I bought, did
> not.

Oh :-o

>> Or, you can just use wasap video. Or voice.
>
> That's what we do. Google Voice would also work.

--
Cheers, Carlos.

[Carlos E.R.]

ROTFL! X'-D

Good thing my mug of tea was on the table and not in my hands ;-)

--
Cheers, Carlos.

[Carlos E.R.]

I don't know how to call mine, faked airpods, earbuds... They identify
as IWOTTO on bluetooth. But they are a "present" from the bank, so
customized with their name. They charge via a short lightning cable.

I don't intend to buy anything like that.
Something with cable instead, to use on an airplane (I intend to take
one). Easy to pack.

--
Cheers, Carlos.

[sms]

On 2/19/2023 12:19 PM, Carlos E.R. wrote:
> On 2023-02-19 20:53, sms wrote:

<snip>

>> You're new here, huh?
>
> ROTFL!  X'-D
>
> Good thing my mug of tea was on the table and not in my hands ;-)

Please switch to coffee. “Experts agree, coffee is good food.”

[Ken Hart]

Why would someone want to buy an iphone just to get the imessage app on it?
--
Ken Hart
kwh...@frontier.com

[Joerg Lorenz]

Am 19.02.23 um 18:57 schrieb Carlos E.R.:

Why do you feed such a Troll like Nic, Carlos?


--
Gutta cavat lapidem (Ovid)

[Carlos E. R.]

Well, I don't know him.

--
Cheers,
Carlos E.R.

[Carlos E. R.]

On 2023-02-19 13:42, Carlos E.R. wrote:
> On 2023-02-19 01:13, VanguardLH wrote:
>> AJL <noe...@none.com> wrote:
>>
>>> sms wrote:

...

> I also have a pair of "fake" airpods, and although they have fewer cuts
> the problem is that the battery doesn't always last even forty minutes.

They claim 3 hour usage, I think.

> Maybe one of the two fails at half an hour and I'm left with only one in
> the ear. And they are new.

--
Cheers,
Carlos E.R.

[nospam]

In article <k5h1dh...@mid.individual.net>, Carlos E. R.

<robin_...@es.invalid> wrote:

> >> On 2023-02-19 15:29, Nic wrote:
> >


> > Why do you feed such a Troll like Nic, Carlos?
>
> Well, I don't know him.

you do under a different nym.

[sms]

I've seen the fake Airpods but what's the point? They look like Apple
AirPods but they're not good.

For under $40 you can get a good-quality pair of earpods with Active
Noise Cancellation, Qualcomm QCC3040 Bluetooth 5.2, 4 Microphones, aptX,
AAC, and Low Latency Mode
<https://www.monoprice.com/product?p_id=43452>. But they look nothing
like AirPods.

[Carlos E. R.]

Because don't look a gifted horse in the mouth? :-)


What I need now are headphones for air travel, meaning cable, and small
package.

--
Cheers,
Carlos E.R.

[sms]

On 2/20/2023 1:41 PM, Carlos E. R. wrote:

<snip>

> Because don't look a gifted horse in the mouth? :-)

True. I've got several sets of both wired and Bluetooth earbuds and
headphones that I got for free. These seem to be popular giveaways at
trade shows and other events.

> What I need now are headphones for air travel, meaning cable, and small
> package

There are some hybrid wired/wireless headphones with active noise
cancellation, and aptX, i.e.
<https://www.monoprice.com/product?p_id=43251>. The issue is that the
package is not terribly small, though not huge either, as long as the
earcups fold. Not sure what's sold in your country though.

[Carlos E. R.]

On 2023-02-21 01:53, sms wrote:
> On 2/20/2023 1:41 PM, Carlos E. R. wrote:
>
> <snip>
>
>> Because don't look a gifted horse in the mouth? :-)
>
> True. I've got several sets of both wired and Bluetooth earbuds and
> headphones that I got for free. These seem to be popular giveaways at
> trade shows and other events.

I have a pair of "normal" BT headphones, and they experience cuts. On
the 50€ range. Sometimes for a full 30".

>
>> What I need now are headphones for air travel, meaning cable, and
>> small package
> There are some hybrid wired/wireless headphones with active noise
> cancellation, and aptX, i.e.
> <https://www.monoprice.com/product?p_id=43251>. The issue is that the
> package is not terribly small, though not huge either, as long as the
> earcups fold. Not sure what's sold in your country though.

I grepped for the word "cable" in there, and did not find it :-?


I don't know, I still haven't really searched.

The pain with all headphones I bought, is that the cushioning
disintegrates way too soon.

--
Cheers,
Carlos E.R.

[nospam]

In article <k5jkkv...@mid.individual.net>, Carlos E. R.

<robin_...@es.invalid> wrote:

> I have a pair of "normal" BT headphones, and they experience cuts. On
> the 50¤ range. Sometimes for a full 30".

then they're not normal.

[Carlos E. R.]

All BT speakers or headphones I have tried on all tablets and phones I
have tried experienced cuts.

The only thing that worked good have been the car hands free systems.

--
Cheers,
Carlos E.R.

[nospam]

In article <k5jvuc...@mid.individual.net>, Carlos E. R.

<robin_...@es.invalid> wrote:

> >> I have a pair of "normal" BT headphones, and they experience cuts. On

> >> the 50? range. Sometimes for a full 30".

> >
> > then they're not normal.
>
> All BT speakers or headphones I have tried on all tablets and phones I
> have tried experienced cuts.

how far away?

i don't know what you've tried, but they shouldn't cut unless they're
outside the range of bluetooth itself, which is *much* more than is
needed when a phone is in a pocket or even the next room.

i've used bluetooth headphones without issue when the phone was on
another floor (through walls & floor/ceiling). only when i was two
floors away did it *start* to drop.

[sms]

On 2/21/2023 2:27 AM, Carlos E. R. wrote:

<snip>

> I grepped for the word "cable" in there, and did not find it :-?

It's in the user manual
<https://downloads.monoprice.com/files/manuals/43251_Manual_210427.pdf>
on page 9:

"If your audio device does not have Bluetooth® or if you prefer to not
use Bluetooth, you can plug the headphones directly into the audio
output of your device.

1. Plug one end of the included 3.5mm Audio Cable into the 3.5mm Audio
Jack on the headphones, then plug the other end into the headphones jack
on your phone or another 3.5mm audio source.

2. Use the audio playback controls on your connected device to control
playback. The controls on the headphones do not function without a
Bluetooth connection."

I also see that the price went up $20 since yesterday! Wish that the
charging port was USB-C instead of Micro-USB.

[Carlos E.R.]

You think he is Arlen?

The language doesn't match. This one is using Knode. And a different
injection server.

--
Cheers, Carlos.

[Carlos E.R.]

On 2023-02-17 19:20, Carlos E. R. wrote:
>
> The link I have is in Spanish, but I'll translate it using DeepL.
> Someone else can find an English language link.
>
> <https://bandaancha.eu/articulos/vodafone-finiquita-mensajes-chat-rcs-10475>
>
> Vodafone ends RCS chat messages and MMS that enhanced SMS with pictures
> and video

Now I notice a different news item contradicting the above.

Paint me baffled.

Again the article is Spanish, so I'll do an automated translation with
DeepL.

<https://www.xatakamovil.com/vodafone/vodafone-se-alia-google-impulso-a-mensajes-rcs-pixel-europa>

*Vodafone and Google collaborate: RCS and Pixel messaging boost in Europe*

Updated 23 February 2023, 09:37
jose-ricca Pepu Ricca

Vodafone today announced a close collaboration with Google that covers
several aspects. The red teleco will push RCS messaging, a technology
that replaces the old SMS with more possibilities than SMS, such as
sending photos and videos. In addition, the Pixel and Android TV will
become more important within the company.

As we can see in the official announcement, the measures taken to align
these two companies in the technology sector include the three aspects
mentioned above. Similarly, Google will benefit from 5G connectivity and
the fibre optic network deployed by Vodafone.

It is clear that there is strength in numbers, or so the two companies
must have thought in order to strengthen each other and give a small
boost to several of their products.

On the one hand, Vodafone announces that its customers will now be able
to enjoy RCS messaging thanks to Google Jibe Cloud, providing an
enhanced experience. Google Messages will be the default application for
Android phones sold through the operator. According to the statement,
this messaging system is used in the enterprise world by more than 500
million users, which is almost nothing [irony]

In addition, the agreement brings a new addition to the portfolio of
handsets sold by the company. The Pixel 7 will be available from
Vodafone. As confirmed by Hiroshi Lockheimer, Google's Senior Vice
President of Platforms and Ecosystems, they are joining forces to bring
users "exciting Android smartphones", i.e. their own Google Pixel.

The partnership, in addition to the Pixel 7, will also add the Pixel
Watch to Vodafone's line-up. Google's smartwatch will be compatible with
the OneNumber service to use it freely without relying on a mobile
phone. The Mountain View company's wireless headphones, the Pixel Buds,
enter the equation.

Finally, the third section of this close union emphasises Android TV.
From now on, the set-top boxes that the operator provides for its TV
services will use Android TV. Thus, customers will be able to download
applications through the Google Play Store at the same time as accessing
Vodafone TV content.

Translated with www.DeepL.com/Translator (free version)


--
Cheers, Carlos.

[Joerg Lorenz]

Am 23.02.23 um 12:57 schrieb Carlos E.R.:

> On 2023-02-17 19:20, Carlos E. R. wrote:
>>
>> The link I have is in Spanish, but I'll translate it using DeepL.
>> Someone else can find an English language link.
>>
>> <https://bandaancha.eu/articulos/vodafone-finiquita-mensajes-chat-rcs-10475>
>>
>> Vodafone ends RCS chat messages and MMS that enhanced SMS with pictures
>> and video
>
> Now I notice a different news item contradicting the above.
>
> Paint me baffled.
>
> Again the article is Spanish, so I'll do an automated translation with
> DeepL.
>
> <https://www.xatakamovil.com/vodafone/vodafone-se-alia-google-impulso-a-mensajes-rcs-pixel-europa>
>
> *Vodafone and Google collaborate: RCS and Pixel messaging boost in Europe*
>
> Updated 23 February 2023, 09:37
> jose-ricca Pepu Ricca
>
> Vodafone today announced a close collaboration with Google that covers
> several aspects. The red teleco will push RCS messaging, a technology
> that replaces the old SMS with more possibilities than SMS, such as
> sending photos and videos. In addition, the Pixel and Android TV will
> become more important within the company.

Given the big picture the probability that RCS will increase market
share in the global messaging market is almost zero. The other parts of
this above described agreement make more sense in my humble opinion.

The market of messaging is distributed and there is no place for
inferior technology.

[Carlos E.R.]

Ok.

I will have to go shopping one day.

--
Cheers, Carlos.

[Carlos E.R.]

On 2023-02-21 14:58, nospam wrote:
> In article <k5jvuc...@mid.individual.net>, Carlos E. R.
> <robin_...@es.invalid> wrote:
>
>>>> I have a pair of "normal" BT headphones, and they experience cuts. On
>>>> the 50? range. Sometimes for a full 30".
>>>
>>> then they're not normal.
>>
>> All BT speakers or headphones I have tried on all tablets and phones I
>> have tried experienced cuts.
>
> how far away?

One meter.

>
> i don't know what you've tried, but they shouldn't cut unless they're
> outside the range of bluetooth itself, which is *much* more than is
> needed when a phone is in a pocket or even the next room.
>
> i've used bluetooth headphones without issue when the phone was on
> another floor (through walls & floor/ceiling). only when i was two
> floors away did it *start* to drop.

--
Cheers, Carlos.

[Carlos E.R.]

It is not that inferior. And it has an advantage: universality. Every
phone comes with it.


--
Cheers, Carlos.

[nospam]

In article <s6rkcjx...@Telcontar.valinor>, Carlos E.R.

<robin_...@es.invalid> wrote:

> > Given the big picture the probability that RCS will increase market
> > share in the global messaging market is almost zero. The other parts of
> > this above described agreement make more sense in my humble opinion.
> >
> > The market of messaging is distributed and there is no place for
> > inferior technology.
> >
>
> It is not that inferior. And it has an advantage: universality. Every
> phone comes with it.

limiting to phones makes it *not* universal.

other messaging options work on *any* device, whether it's a phone,
tablet, laptop or desktop computer. even a raspberry pi can work.

[nospam]

In article <r8rkcjx...@Telcontar.valinor>, Carlos E.R.

<robin_...@es.invalid> wrote:

> >>>> I have a pair of "normal" BT headphones, and they experience cuts. On
> >>>> the 50? range. Sometimes for a full 30".
> >>>
> >>> then they're not normal.
> >>
> >> All BT speakers or headphones I have tried on all tablets and phones I
> >> have tried experienced cuts.
> >
> > how far away?
>
> One meter.

something is very wrong. at that distance, it should *not* drop out at
all.

[Andy Burnelli]

nospam wrote:

> limiting to phones makes it *not* universal.
>
> other messaging options work on *any* device, whether it's a phone,
> tablet, laptop or desktop computer. even a raspberry pi can work.

My Android messaging app already works on *any* device also nospam.

[Carlos E.R.]

I don't know if it is limited to phones. I did not said so.

I just googled "sending RCS from computer" and found hits. There is a
google messages web client, for starters.

<https://www.androidpolice.com/use-google-messages-laptop-desktop/>

--
Cheers, Carlos.

[nospam]

In article <8dtkcjx...@Telcontar.valinor>, Carlos E.R.

<robin_...@es.invalid> wrote:

> >>> Given the big picture the probability that RCS will increase market
> >>> share in the global messaging market is almost zero. The other parts of
> >>> this above described agreement make more sense in my humble opinion.
> >>>
> >>> The market of messaging is distributed and there is no place for
> >>> inferior technology.
> >>>
> >>
> >> It is not that inferior. And it has an advantage: universality. Every
> >> phone comes with it.
> >
> > limiting to phones makes it *not* universal.
> >
> > other messaging options work on *any* device, whether it's a phone,
> > tablet, laptop or desktop computer. even a raspberry pi can work.
>
> I don't know if it is limited to phones. I did not said so.

it's carrier controlled and requires a phone number, so yes it is.

<https://www.androidauthority.com/rcs-google-3090142/>
RCS is also completely reliant on your phone number being active
when you send or receive messages. This makes it intricately linked
to your carrier bill (h/t Ron Amadeo for bringing this into the
discussion). If you happen to miss a payment or have an issue with
your carrier, or if you live in a country where number portability is
difficult or inexistent, your line goes down and so does your ability
to use SMS and RCS. This is unlike IP-based chat services where you
can connect back at any point in the future, get all of your pending
messages, and continue where you left off.

[nospam]

In article <tt8glk$34188$1...@paganini.bofh.team>, Andy Burnelli

as usual, you snipped to alter context.

the discussion is about rcs, which is carrier controlled and requires a
phone number. sending rcs via a computer requires a linked phone.

other messaging apps do not have that requirement. simple concept.

[Theo]

Except if it's an iPhone, or a dumbphone, or if your carrier doesn't support
it, or if you change carrier to one that doesn't, or...

It's actually worse, because you trade the lack of universality that can be
fixed by installing the appropriate messaging app, to one which depends on
your phone brand or carrier, which are things that are much harder to
change.

I think what you mean is the app falls back to SMS if the recipient doesn't
support RCS. But that's not unique to RCS, and when any app falls back you
get a degraded experience. Which, given the patchiness of RCS support, is
not unlikely.

Theo

[Joerg Lorenz]

Am 23.02.23 um 20:25 schrieb Carlos E.R.:

That is not correct. RCS has to be supported by the service-provider as
well as the handset manufacturers. Apple does not support RCS.

The functionality is ways behind well known messaging apps/services like
WhatsApp, Signal, Telegram, Threema and others like iMessage and some
others.

What could be the unique selling proposition of RCS? I used it already:
I do not see any.

[Andy Burnelli]

nospam wrote:

>> My Android messaging app already works on *any* device also nospam.
>
> as usual, you snipped to alter context.

If you're too stupid to know I _always_ snip the quotes, on _all_ forums,
then just keep saying that - since it's indicative of your rather low IQ.

A normal person snips what they're not responding to.
I snip quotes on _every_ Usenet and web forum I participate in, nospam.

It's rude NOT to snip quotes and only quote what you're responding to.
If you're too stupid to realize that, then it's how I know you're stupid.

> the discussion is about rcs, which is carrier controlled and requires a
> phone number. sending rcs via a computer requires a linked phone.

I was talking about your comment that some messaging apps work on *any*
platform, where Android messaging apps work on *any* platform.

If that's too difficult a concept for you to comprehend, then, again, it's
how I know you have a low IQ, nospam (and an agenda to tout iOS products).

> other messaging apps do not have that requirement. simple concept.

You're an idiot if you don't understand that the penalty you pay for that
"simple concept" is that it _requires_ logging into the Apple mothership.

It's no longer shocking how _ignorant_ you are of how iOS really works.

The fact you don't _know_ this is how I know that you're stupid nospam.

[Carlos E.R.]

On 2023-02-23 21:49, Theo wrote:
> Carlos E.R. <robin_...@es.invalid> wrote:
>> On 2023-02-23 14:09, Joerg Lorenz wrote:
>>> Given the big picture the probability that RCS will increase market
>>> share in the global messaging market is almost zero. The other parts of
>>> this above described agreement make more sense in my humble opinion.
>>>
>>> The market of messaging is distributed and there is no place for
>>> inferior technology.
>>
>> It is not that inferior. And it has an advantage: universality. Every
>> phone comes with it.
>
> Except if it's an iPhone, or a dumbphone, or if your carrier doesn't support
> it, or if you change carrier to one that doesn't, or...

Then you have plain SMS, transparently.

>
> It's actually worse, because you trade the lack of universality that can be
> fixed by installing the appropriate messaging app, to one which depends on
> your phone brand or carrier, which are things that are much harder to
> change.

And the app will be installed on every (smart) phone by default. All
android phones, obviously :-)

>
> I think what you mean is the app falls back to SMS if the recipient doesn't
> support RCS. But that's not unique to RCS, and when any app falls back you
> get a degraded experience. Which, given the patchiness of RCS support, is
> not unlikely.
>
> Theo

--
Cheers, Carlos.

[Carlos E.R.]

On 2023-02-23 21:35, nospam wrote:
> In article <8dtkcjx...@Telcontar.valinor>, Carlos E.R.
> <robin_...@es.invalid> wrote:
>
>>>>> Given the big picture the probability that RCS will increase market
>>>>> share in the global messaging market is almost zero. The other parts of
>>>>> this above described agreement make more sense in my humble opinion.
>>>>>
>>>>> The market of messaging is distributed and there is no place for
>>>>> inferior technology.
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> It is not that inferior. And it has an advantage: universality. Every
>>>> phone comes with it.
>>>
>>> limiting to phones makes it *not* universal.
>>>
>>> other messaging options work on *any* device, whether it's a phone,
>>> tablet, laptop or desktop computer. even a raspberry pi can work.
>>
>> I don't know if it is limited to phones. I did not said so.
>
> it's carrier controlled and requires a phone number, so yes it is.

Big deal! :-D

So what?

--
Cheers, Carlos.

[Andy Burnelli]

nospam wrote:

>> I don't know if it is limited to phones. I did not said so.
>
> it's carrier controlled and requires a phone number, so yes it is.

Idiot.

For the _adults_ on this Android newsgroup, _every_ messaging app requires
a unique way to determine who you are, so whether it's your phone number or
a unique login account is immaterial in terms of that simple basic fact.

It's clear that nospam does not comprehend that fact, but adults should.

Either you hand all your privacy to Apple (in the case of nospam), or, you
hand it to the carrier - but either way - you need a unique way to connect.

BTW, here's me, at this very moment, typing up my texts on Android from the
PC, where, with Android, there are so many ways to do that it's not funny.
<https://i.postimg.cc/pr13NYWW/android-on-windows.jpg> android on Windows

[Carlos E.R.]

On 2023-02-23 22:28, Joerg Lorenz wrote:
> Am 23.02.23 um 20:25 schrieb Carlos E.R.:
>> On 2023-02-23 14:09, Joerg Lorenz wrote:
>>> Given the big picture the probability that RCS will increase market
>>> share in the global messaging market is almost zero. The other parts of
>>> this above described agreement make more sense in my humble opinion.
>>>
>>> The market of messaging is distributed and there is no place for
>>> inferior technology.
>>>
>>
>> It is not that inferior. And it has an advantage: universality. Every
>> phone comes with it.
>
> That is not correct. RCS has to be supported by the service-provider as
> well as the handset manufacturers. Apple does not support RCS.

Big deal. It is a walled garden, enter, at your own risk >:-p

>
> The functionality is ways behind well known messaging apps/services like
> WhatsApp, Signal, Telegram, Threema and others like iMessage and some
> others.
>
> What could be the unique selling proposition of RCS? I used it already:
> I do not see any.

As I said, that it allows people both sides of the pond to communicate
for free, considering that "over there" they use mostly SMS/MMS.



--
Cheers, Carlos.

[nospam]

In article <rl2lcjx...@Telcontar.valinor>, Carlos E.R.

<robin_...@es.invalid> wrote:

> >
> > it's carrier controlled and requires a phone number, so yes it is.
>
> Big deal! :-D

it is a big deal

> So what?

the so what is not everyone has a phone number, and they can change, as
was explained in the link i posted.

[Andy Burnelli]

Carlos E.R. wrote:

>> it's carrier controlled and requires a phone number, so yes it is.
>
> Big deal! :-D
>
> So what?

I agree with anyone who has a logically sensible opinion, where I agree
with Carlos that either you hand your privacy to the mothership, as you
must do in the case of Apple, or you hand it to the carrier, as you must do
in the case of your phone number.

*What nospam doesn't comprehend is that rather basic simple observation*

It's no longer shocking how little nospam knows of how iOS actually works.

[Joerg Lorenz]

Am 23.02.23 um 22:38 schrieb Carlos E.R.:

They use iMessage and Facebook Messenger.
Text-messages are also dead in the US.

[Andy Burnelli]

nospam wrote:

>>> it's carrier controlled and requires a phone number, so yes it is.
>>
>> Big deal! :-D
>
> it is a big deal

Every messaging app needs a _unique_ way for people to contact you.

It's either a unique account where they can track what you do.
Or it's a unique phone number where they can track what you do.

>> So what?
>
> the so what is not everyone has a phone number, and they can change, as
> was explained in the link i posted.

It's not clear whether nospam is aware of the basics that _every_ messaging
app requires "something" unique about you in order for the thing to work.

As far as I know, it's generally your phone number or a unique account.

[Andy Burnelli]

Theo wrote:

> I think what you mean is the app falls back to SMS if the recipient doesn't
> support RCS. But that's not unique to RCS, and when any app falls back you
> get a degraded experience. Which, given the patchiness of RCS support, is
> not unlikely.

Hi Theo,
You seem to understand RCS where I admit that I only understand why Google
is desperate for RCS but I don't yet understand why people would care.

*Do you know why anyone would want RCS?*

What does RCS give that, for example, my messaging app doesn't already do?
*Pulse SMS* (Phone/Tablet/Web) by Maple Media, In-app purchases
free, adfree, reqgsf, 4.7star,78.5K reviews,1M+Downloads
<https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=xyz.klinker.messenger>

[Andy Burnelli]

Carlos E.R. wrote:

>> That is not correct. RCS has to be supported by the service-provider as
>> well as the handset manufacturers. Apple does not support RCS.
>
> Big deal. It is a walled garden, enter, at your own risk >:-p

I agree with any sensible logical opinion, where I agree with Carlos that
you can decide to be locked up inside the walled garden but if you do, then
you are simply trading your phone number for a required Apple account.

Big deal.

It's not clear that nospam is aware that there is an account required.

>> The functionality is ways behind well known messaging apps/services like
>> WhatsApp, Signal, Telegram, Threema and others like iMessage and some
>> others.

All of those suffer from the fact they require an account, although for
WhatsApp, which I recently installed, the "phone number" _is_ the account.

>> What could be the unique selling proposition of RCS? I used it already:
>> I do not see any.
>
> As I said, that it allows people both sides of the pond to communicate
> for free, considering that "over there" they use mostly SMS/MMS.

I have to admit that I don't understand yet why anyone pines for RCS.
It's my fault though. I don't understand what I'm missing, I guess.

I'm sure nospam will tell me though... :)

[Kees Nuyt]

On Thu, 23 Feb 2023 14:36:27 -0500, nospam
<nos...@nospam.invalid> wrote:

>> > how far away?
>>
>> One meter.
>
> something is very wrong. at that distance, it should *not*
> drop out at all.

Drop outs can occur when the input stage of the receiver is
overloaded by strong radio signals, for example close to a GSM
antenna mast or non-compliant WiFi.
--
Kees Nuyt