Pixel2 Rants

[The Real Bev]

(1) The battery runs down really quickly. I flip away every app I'm not
using (NOBODY provides OFF switches) and run Droid Optimizer a number of
times (another rant-subject) until it says everything has been killed.
Even so, In one hour of non-usage I'm down to 83% even in airplane mode
with bluetooth off. I left 'location' on because my daughter is
tracking me (it's reciprocal). I swear it didn't discharge this quickly
when I first got it a year and a half ago.

(2) Yesterday I ran Ski Tracks (which has always been really useful and
reliable) while I was (duh) skiing. I received a spam call which, since
I couldn't actually get to the phone tucked in my bra under my t-shirt
under my sweater under my coat, which apparently triggered something
weird. When I was finished I pulled out the phone only to find that Ski
Tracks said it had lost GPS signal just about the time of the call and
the screen was blacked out -- by the slider, not the power switch. I
can't imagine what might cause either problem.

(3) Somebody here recommended Droid Optimizer. It doesn't seem to have
made any difference at all and seems to require a number of iterations
to arrive at the EVERYTHING IS DEAD message.

Based on the battery, I don't think I would buy another Pixel.


--
Cheers, Bev
Lawyering: the only profession that if you
didn't have it you wouldn't need it.

[nospam]

In article <spvmch$ilo$1...@dont-email.me>, The Real Bev

<bashl...@gmail.com> wrote:

> (1) The battery runs down really quickly. I flip away every app I'm not
> using (NOBODY provides OFF switches) and run Droid Optimizer a number of
> times (another rant-subject) until it says everything has been killed.
> Even so, In one hour of non-usage I'm down to 83% even in airplane mode
> with bluetooth off. I left 'location' on because my daughter is
> tracking me (it's reciprocal). I swear it didn't discharge this quickly
> when I first got it a year and a half ago.

it probably was better a year and a half ago. batteries degrade with
age.

the pixel 2 was released in 2017, so the battery is now roughly 4 years
old. expect it to get worse.

unfortunately, replacing the battery is not that simple. best to have a
repair shop do it, with a warranty.

...

> Based on the battery, I don't think I would buy another Pixel.

right, because other phones never have battery problems...

[David Taylor]

On 22/12/2021 17:13, The Real Bev wrote:
> (1) The battery runs down really quickly. I flip away every app I'm not
> using (NOBODY provides OFF switches) and run Droid Optimizer a number of
> times (another rant-subject) until it says everything has been killed.
> Even so, In one hour of non-usage I'm down to 83% even in airplane mode
> with bluetooth off. I left 'location' on because my daughter is
> tracking me (it's reciprocal). I swear it didn't discharge this quickly
> when I first got it a year and a half ago.

[]

> Based on the battery, I don't think I would buy another Pixel.

How old is the Pixel 2 and how many years would you expect the battery to last?
Any phone battery?

My Pixel 3 and 5 have been fine but my usage may be a lot less.

David
--
Cheers,
David
Web: http://www.satsignal.eu

[Andy Burnelli]

On Wed, 22 Dec 2021 18:49:30 +0000, David Taylor wrote:

> How old is the Pixel 2 and how many years would you expect the battery to last?

The Pixel 2 has a smallish 2700 mAh battery which is about half the size of
my free Android phone so it's kind of puny in size compared to most modern
Android phones (the Pixel 2 is more along the lines of the dismal iPhone
batteries but as the last iPhone I bought from T-Mobile earlier this year
had a horrid battery by all accounts - which Apple loves because the phone
dies sooner).

Given the Pixel 2 has a small'ish battery, it perhaps needs to be replaced
sooner than a typical Android phone of twice the Pixel's battery capacity.

Google Pixel 2 Battery Replacement ($35 for the tool kit & battery)
https://www.ifixit.com/Guide/Google+Pixel+2+Battery+Replacement/103334

Rated as Difficult at 21 steps & time to repair listed as 1-1/2 to 2 hours
https://www.ifixit.com/Store/Android/Google-Pixel-2-Battery/IF356-032?o=5

Dunno if the OP has the necessary skills but this one appears to be a
delicate replacement, as Google can afford to copy the customer unfriendly
moves that Apple pioneers such as non-replaceable batteries glued into the
case just to make it harder and more expensive to own the phone for longer
periods of time.

[Andy Burns]

David Taylor wrote:

> The Real Bev wrote:
>
>> Based on the battery, I don't think I would buy another Pixel.
>
> How old is the Pixel 2 and how many years would you expect the battery to last?

a Pixel2 is at least 4 years old (almost by definition my Pixel3 is a year
younger) I still get about 36 hours/charge from mine, though my usage is lighter
now than when it was new, because I'm working from home on Teams far more than I
was 3 years ago.

[Joerg Lorenz]

Am 22.12.21 um 18:13 schrieb The Real Bev:

> Based on the battery, I don't think I would buy another Pixel.

Cannot report any problems so far. My 4 is running all the time since I
bought it factory new. It is not quite 2 years old yet.

IIRC you are using a Pixel 2. The battery must be over 4 years old.


--
De gustibus non est disputandum

[nospam]

In article <j2hikn...@mid.individual.net>, Andy Burns

<use...@andyburns.uk> wrote:

> >> Based on the battery, I don't think I would buy another Pixel.
> >
> > How old is the Pixel 2 and how many years would you expect the battery to
> > last?
>
> a Pixel2 is at least 4 years old (almost by definition my Pixel3 is a year
> younger)

the pixel 2 was released in november, 2017, thus the oldest it can be
is 4 years and 1 month.

she also bought it used, and i doubt she knows when the original buyer
bought it.

[The Real Bev]

On 12/22/2021 10:49 AM, David Taylor wrote:
> On 22/12/2021 17:13, The Real Bev wrote:
>> (1) The battery runs down really quickly. I flip away every app I'm not
>> using (NOBODY provides OFF switches) and run Droid Optimizer a number of
>> times (another rant-subject) until it says everything has been killed.
>> Even so, In one hour of non-usage I'm down to 83% even in airplane mode
>> with bluetooth off. I left 'location' on because my daughter is
>> tracking me (it's reciprocal). I swear it didn't discharge this quickly
>> when I first got it a year and a half ago.
> []
>
>> Based on the battery, I don't think I would buy another Pixel.
>
> How old is the Pixel 2 and how many years would you expect the battery to last?
> Any phone battery?

With the minimal usage it gets, many years. It loses half its charge
in 16 hours just turned on, but with NO usage.

> My Pixel 3 and 5 have been fine but my usage may be a lot less.

I can't justify buying a phone that costs more than $150 or so, even if
I consider that I'm buying it mostly for the camera. I love the say the
Pixel2 sucked in all the apps AND THEIR PERSONALIZATIONS from my
Motorola phone, and that alone makes it worthwhile.

OTOH, the battery discharge means that it's dead after maybe 100 photos
in one day. OTOOH the camera is nice. OTOOH perhaps by the time I
replace it the Pixels will have solved the battery problem and have an
included optical telephoto lens...

--
Cheers, Bev
Why should I be tarred with the epithet "loony" merely
because I have a pet halibut? --Monty Python

[The Real Bev]

On 12/22/2021 12:59 PM, Andy Burnelli wrote:
> On Wed, 22 Dec 2021 18:49:30 +0000, David Taylor wrote:
>
>> How old is the Pixel 2 and how many years would you expect the battery to last?
>
> The Pixel 2 has a smallish 2700 mAh battery which is about half the size of
> my free Android phone so it's kind of puny in size compared to most modern
> Android phones (the Pixel 2 is more along the lines of the dismal iPhone
> batteries but as the last iPhone I bought from T-Mobile earlier this year
> had a horrid battery by all accounts - which Apple loves because the phone
> dies sooner).
>
> Given the Pixel 2 has a small'ish battery, it perhaps needs to be replaced
> sooner than a typical Android phone of twice the Pixel's battery capacity.
>
> Google Pixel 2 Battery Replacement ($35 for the tool kit & battery)
> https://www.ifixit.com/Guide/Google+Pixel+2+Battery+Replacement/103334
>
> Rated as Difficult at 21 steps & time to repair listed as 1-1/2 to 2 hours
> https://www.ifixit.com/Store/Android/Google-Pixel-2-Battery/IF356-032?o=5

I'm clumsy, but a lot depends on the accuracy and clarity of the
instructions. OTOH, I have a son...

> Dunno if the OP has the necessary skills but this one appears to be a
> delicate replacement, as Google can afford to copy the customer unfriendly
> moves that Apple pioneers such as non-replaceable batteries glued into the
> case just to make it harder and more expensive to own the phone for longer
> periods of time.

The battery has to be a lot worse for me to replace it. I bought it
"factory refurbished" 1.5 years ago, so the battery may be the original
one from October 2017. Still, 4 years isn't all that long.

[sms]

A four year old phone is likely to have battery issues especially if it
was heavily used by the original owner.

You're best off buying a new phone. You can often get good deals at HSN
on a Samsung Galaxy A series. It'll be locked for a year but includes
enough minutes, texts, and data for light usage until you can get it
unlocked and moved to your $10 per year plan with no data. I bought a
Samsung A51 for about $88.99 + tax a few weeks ago, and it included a
year of service on Tracfone/Verizon <https://i.imgur.com/L6jwVNR.png>
but you have to be quick to get these deals.

[The Real Bev]

On 12/22/2021 01:19 PM, Joerg Lorenz wrote:
> Am 22.12.21 um 18:13 schrieb The Real Bev:
>> Based on the battery, I don't think I would buy another Pixel.
>
> Cannot report any problems so far. My 4 is running all the time since I
> bought it factory new. It is not quite 2 years old yet.
>
> IIRC you are using a Pixel 2. The battery must be over 4 years old.

I got some free Cobra (I think) walkie-talkies maybe 10 years ago.
Every few years I turn them on and then recharge them. They've never
failed to turn on. OTOH, I've never actually used them after I set them up.

[sms]

On 12/22/2021 2:15 PM, The Real Bev wrote:

<snip>

> The battery has to be a lot worse for me to replace it.  I bought it
> "factory refurbished" 1.5 years ago, so the battery may be the original
> one from October 2017.  Still, 4 years isn't all that long.

Depends on the previous owner. He or she could have been a heavy user
that went through 450+ discharge/charge cycles. No way of knowing.

[The Real Bev]

Based on the performance and factory service of a Samsung printer, TV
and gas stove, I wouldn't touch another Samsung product with somebody
else's 10-foot pole. And my friend's leaky front-loading washing
machine. The stove service people were amazingly ignorant, requiring
four service calls to actually fix a single burner igniter. One of the
guys informed me that had it not been within the ONE-YEAR warranty the
repair would have cost $300. It never occurred to me that a gas stove
might not last 50 years like the old one, so I didn't buy the extended
warranty.

Yeah, anecdotal evidence. 4/4 is good enough for me.

Lesson learned: if I can't carry it back to the store, buy the fucking
warranty.

> It'll be locked for a year but includes
> enough minutes, texts, and data for light usage until you can get it
> unlocked and moved to your $10 per year plan with no data. I bought a
> Samsung A51 for about $88.99 + tax a few weeks ago, and it included a
> year of service on Tracfone/Verizon <https://i.imgur.com/L6jwVNR.png>
> but you have to be quick to get these deals.

[John McGaw]

On 12/22/2021 5:15 PM, The Real Bev wrote:
> Still, 4 years isn't all that long.

In mobile phone years, that is quite ancient. If you want to keep that
particular phone, which had a small battery capacity to begin with, you
really should consider having it replaced. A replacement for most phones is
cheap and quick. A local shop will probably be cheaper than one of the
national chains.

--
Bodger's Dictum: Artifical intelligence
can never overcome natural stupidity.

[The Real Bev]

On 12/22/2021 04:07 PM, John McGaw wrote:
> On 12/22/2021 5:15 PM, The Real Bev wrote:
>> Still, 4 years isn't all that long.
>
> In mobile phone years, that is quite ancient. If you want to keep that
> particular phone, which had a small battery capacity to begin with, you
> really should consider having it replaced. A replacement for most phones is
> cheap and quick. A local shop will probably be cheaper than one of the
> national chains.

I'll think about it...

No ideas about the GPS/screen darkening thing?

--
Cheers, Bev
The volume of a pizza of thickness 'a' and radius 'z'
is given by pi*z*z*a

[nospam]

In article <sq082t$vfa$1...@dont-email.me>, The Real Bev

<bashl...@gmail.com> wrote:

> The battery has to be a lot worse for me to replace it.

give it time. it'll get worse.

> I bought it
> "factory refurbished" 1.5 years ago, so the battery may be the original
> one from October 2017. Still, 4 years isn't all that long.

they're rated for 5 years, so yes it is that long.

[John B.]

My mother had one stove from some time before I can remember until she
died. Of course it didn't have any of those fancy ding-bobs like
automatic lighting burners or oven thermostats, but then she had
learned to cook on a wood stove when she was a girl, in fact, as a
lad, I remember my grandmother, her mother, still cooked on a wood
stove, in the winter months. How else would you heat the kitchen?

--
Cheers,

John B.

[David Taylor]

On 22/12/2021 22:11, The Real Bev wrote:
> With the minimal usage it gets, many years. It loses half its charge
> in 16 hours just turned on, but with NO usage.

Your expectations may be a little high:

"The typical estimated life of a Lithium-Ion battery is about two to three
years or 300 to 500 charge cycles, whichever occurs first. One charge cycle is
a period of use from fully charged, to fully discharged, and fully recharged
again. Use a two to three year life expectancy for batteries that do not run
through complete charge cycles."

https://www.newark.com/pdfs/techarticles/tektronix/LIBMG.pdf

OK, maybe that's pessimistic, but "many years" may be optimistic.

[Joerg Lorenz]

Am 22.12.21 um 23:44 schrieb The Real Bev:

> On 12/22/2021 01:19 PM, Joerg Lorenz wrote:
>> Am 22.12.21 um 18:13 schrieb The Real Bev:
>>> Based on the battery, I don't think I would buy another Pixel.
>>
>> Cannot report any problems so far. My 4 is running all the time since I
>> bought it factory new. It is not quite 2 years old yet.
>>
>> IIRC you are using a Pixel 2. The battery must be over 4 years old.
>
> I got some free Cobra (I think) walkie-talkies maybe 10 years ago.
> Every few years I turn them on and then recharge them. They've never
> failed to turn on. OTOH, I've never actually used them after I set them up.

Modern Lithium-Batteries have an expected lifetime of about 200 complete
cycles until they reach roughly 75%-85% of their original capacity and
then degrade fairly quickly.

If it has uptime of 24/7 it will reach this point in less than 3 years.

[Piet]

John McGaw wrote:
> The Real Bev wrote:
>> Still, 4 years isn't all that long.
>
> In mobile phone years, that is quite ancient.

For those who are addicted to mobile phones it is.
For others it isn't.

> If you want to keep that particular phone, which had a
> small battery capacity to begin with, you really should
> consider having it replaced.

As long as it suits your needs, just keep (using) it.

> A replacement for most phones is cheap and quick.

Depends on what you cal "cheap". And a powerbank to
make up for the small battery is still a lot cheaper.

-p

[John McGaw]

On 12/23/2021 4:59 AM, Piet wrote:
> Depends on what you cal "cheap". And a powerbank to
> make up for the small battery is still a lot cheaper.

Absolutely true. I have several of them from tiny to huge. The problem is
that trying to use the phone with the power bank attached it not exactly
convenient. Mine are mostly for off-the-grid use and during power failures.

[Frank Slootweg]

The Real Bev <bashl...@gmail.com> wrote:

[...]

> The battery has to be a lot worse for me to replace it. I bought it
> "factory refurbished" 1.5 years ago, so the battery may be the original
> one from October 2017. Still, 4 years isn't all that long.

As others have mentioned/explained, sadly enough 4 years *is* quite
'long'.

For your next phone/battery, try to keep it between 10 and 90%, or
better yet, between 20 and 80%. Yes, it's a pain to try to manage that,
but the battery nor the device manufacturers care about *your* pain. The
only thing *they* want it to sell you a new device ASAP.

Yes, the device manufacturers could let their devices manage this
automatically, but then they wouldn't die as fast, would they?

Having ruined enough batteries by charging to 100%, I now have our
devices on AC timers and only give them a limited charge time per day
(or shorter period for the laptops).

[Frank Slootweg]

The Real Bev <bashl...@gmail.com> wrote:

> (1) The battery runs down really quickly. I flip away every app I'm not
> using (NOBODY provides OFF switches) and run Droid Optimizer a number of
> times (another rant-subject) until it says everything has been killed.
> Even so, In one hour of non-usage I'm down to 83% even in airplane mode
> with bluetooth off. I left 'location' on because my daughter is
> tracking me (it's reciprocal). I swear it didn't discharge this quickly
> when I first got it a year and a half ago.

If your daughter can track you, I assume Wi-Fi is on (and cellular and
Bluetooth are off).

'location' is on, but is (the) GPS also on? If so, that's quite a
battery eater and shouldn't be neccessary, because Wi-Fi location
information should be enough when you're stationary (which you
apparently are, because you have cellular off).

You might try to switch Bluetooth *on*, so that whatever app is doing
the tracking can try to use Wi-Fi or/and Bluetooth instead of
power-hungry GPS.

[...]

[sms]

One thing I've learned about companies is that their divisions are very
different. An LG or Samsung washing machine or range may have issues but
an LG or Samsung TV may not. Even for phones, the quality varies. LG had
terrible flagship phones, that were plagued with issues, but their
mid-range and low-end phones did not have those same issues. I have an
LG/Kenmore washing machine in a rental unit and it has one really bad
design flaw that causes water to spill over the top of the tub onto the
floor even though no hoses are actually leaking. I was lucky to find a
Youtube video that showed how to fix it because apparently many
appliance repair people are unaware of the issue

[Piet]

John McGaw wrote:
> Piet wrote:
>> Depends on what you cal "cheap". And a powerbank to
>> make up for the small battery is still a lot cheaper.
>
> Absolutely true. I have several of them from tiny to huge.
> The problem is that trying to use the phone with the power
> bank attached it not exactly convenient.

That's not a technical issue, but a management issue.
A powerbank *at hand* isn't really inconvenient, but
solves a lot of power-low cases.

-p

[Andy Burns]

sms wrote:

> The Real Bev wrote:
>

>> Based on the performance and factory service of a Samsung printer, TV and gas
>> stove, I wouldn't touch another Samsung product with somebody else's 10-foot
>> pole.
>

> One thing I've learned about companies is that their divisions are very
> different.

And making broad statements like "I'll never buy another xxx", "I'll never buy
another yyy" or "I'll never buy another zzz" you soon run out of companies to
buy stuff from ...

[Ken Blake]

On 12/23/2021 4:15 AM, John McGaw wrote:
> On 12/23/2021 4:59 AM, Piet wrote:
>> Depends on what you cal "cheap". And a powerbank to
>> make up for the small battery is still a lot cheaper.
>
> Absolutely true. I have several of them from tiny to huge. The problem is
> that trying to use the phone with the power bank attached it not exactly
> convenient.

Nor does it fit into my pocket.

[David Higton]

In message <sq1cqr$719$1...@dont-email.me>

Joerg Lorenz <hugy...@gmx.ch> wrote:

> Modern Lithium-Batteries have an expected lifetime of about 200 complete
> cycles until they reach roughly 75%-85% of their original capacity and
> then degrade fairly quickly.

That seems an implausibly small number. I would have expected at least
500. What's your source for those figures?

David

[Andy Burnelli]

On 23 Dec 2021 13:10:59 GMT, Frank Slootweg wrote:

> For your next phone/battery, try to keep it between 10 and 90%, or
> better yet, between 20 and 80%.

I agree in general with Frank's recommendation where I don't recall what
phone Frank has but I think it may be a recent Samsung which, I must admit,
are fantastic in that they have huge batteries nowadays.

What I _love_ is that even the least expensive Samsungs (mine was free, for
example) have gads of RAM (mine is 4GB) and battery capacity (mine is 5AH).

With a five amp-hour battery, it's a lot _easier_ to maintain it between the
20% and 80% that Frank astutely recommends above, and, in fact, it's almost
never below 50% given that the phone doesn't consume any more than any other
phone would.

A larger battery in and of itself increases the life of the phone, IMHO, if
the life was dependent on the battery anyway (and in many ways, it is).

[Joerg Lorenz]

Am 23.12.21 um 15:51 schrieb David Higton:

Various. And you are sure you know what complete cycles are?

[Andy Burnelli]

On Thu, 23 Dec 2021 14:39:06 +0000, Andy Burns wrote:

>> One thing I've learned about companies is that their divisions are very
>> different.
>
> And making broad statements like "I'll never buy another xxx", "I'll never buy
> another yyy" or "I'll never buy another zzz" you soon run out of companies to
> buy stuff from ...

I agree with Steve that divisions of huge companies are companies in and of
themselves (with their own culture and engineering pros and cons), and, in
fact, often they're merely purchased companies which keeps them all the more
so (until finally, the parent company culture assimilates them, e.g.,
Whatsapp privacy culture melded into Facebook as a classic example).

I also agree with Andy that there are, in essence, only three major USA
suppliers (the rest being marketing entities for the most part), where I've
sworn off Verizon (because they upped my 2-year contract when my company
paid for Kyocera broke which I didn't think they should have done), and then
a few years later when I retired I swore off AT&T (because they wouldn't let
me have a "smart" phone without a data plan), and then, oh, for at least a
decade, I've been left with only T-Mobile as the main company I haven't
sworn off yet.

As T-Mobile is currently replacing my free Samsung for free (they were going
to charge $20 to replace it at the store under warranty but I talked them
out of that), I can't say I've had any major issues with T-Mobile - but if I
ever do swear them off.... then... as Andy noted... I'll be out of companies
to choose from.

[Andy Burnelli]

On 23 Dec 2021 13:24:41 GMT, Frank Slootweg wrote:

> If your daughter can track you, I assume Wi-Fi is on (and cellular and
> Bluetooth are off).

Just as an interesting but related aside, I have my phone set to allow the
least amount of tracking that I can figure out how to prevent, and, as a
test, I've called T-Mobile multiple times to ask where each phone was on my
family plan account.

The stark fact is that T-Mobile can often tell you the cell tower that each
phone on your plan is using, where they easily give that information in
street addresses over the phone to the owner of the phones (which is me).

Interestingly, they often have that information instantly on hand for all
the phones in my family plan except mine and that of my wife, which is
interesting simply because there's no way we can possibly hide from their
cell towers.

I suspect that's simply because we're on a femtocell most of the time, and
for whatever reason, they don't have femtocell location information
instantly on hand. (I probably should test that while on the road.)

> 'location' is on, but is (the) GPS also on? If so, that's quite a
> battery eater and shouldn't be neccessary, because Wi-Fi location
> information should be enough when you're stationary (which you
> apparently are, because you have cellular off).

Frank knows this technical stuff better than I do, but what Frank is telling
the OP is that "location" to most of us means the GPS radio is on, but in
reality, I think Frank is making the point that "location" being turned on
doesn't necessarily mean the GPS radio receiver is turned on.

For me, I equate the little teardrop icon with turning on the GPS radio,
and, well, for me, that may be the case since I never turn on the enhanced
location stuff that the gms (google mobile services) packages always want.

But for other people, what Frank is trying to say (I think) is the location
being on doesn't mean the GPS is also on (although most times it might).

[Joerg Lorenz]

Am 23.12.21 um 15:51 schrieb David Higton:

Easy to access but you need minimal German: Lehrstuhl für
Elektrochemische Energiewandlung und Speichersystemtechnik

https://ei.uni-paderborn.de/fileadmin/elektrotechnik/fg/nek/Kairies/2019_Kairies_Batteriealterung_TU_Paderborn.pdf

[Andy Burns]

Andy Burnelli wrote:

> if I ever do swear them off.... then... as Andy noted... I'll be out of
> companies to choose from.

Also people have misplaced brand loyalty "I bought an xyz washer 30 years ago
and it's been brilliant", buy another one today and it's highly unlikely to be
made to the same standard ...

[Andy Burnelli]

On Thu, 23 Dec 2021 16:47:57 +0100, Joerg Lorenz wrote:

> Easy to access but you need minimal German: Lehrstuhl fur

> Elektrochemische Energiewandlung und Speichersystemtechnik
>
> https://ei.uni-paderborn.de/fileadmin/elektrotechnik/fg/nek/Kairies/2019_Kairies_Batteriealterung_TU_Paderborn.pdf

1. I downloaded that 2019_Kairies_Batteriealterung_TU_Paderborn.pdf
2. I shrank it from >5MB to <5MB (due to size limits on the site below)
3. I dragged & dropped that <5MB PDF into this translation web site
<https://www.deepl.com/Translator>
4. I uploaded the results to this PDF sharing web site
<https://pdfhost.io/>

It's not perfect but at least it should be readable in English now.
<https://pdfhost.io/v/wELuF74Lf_Projektvorstellung>

[Piet]

Ken Blake wrote:

> John McGaw wrote:
>> The problem is that trying to use the phone with the power bank
>> attached it not exactly convenient.
>
> Nor does it fit into my pocket.

Mine easily fits into my wife's handbag.
Women solve a lot of problems. :-)

-p

[Frank Slootweg]

That's the nice thing about things like this, about every number is
'correct'/'wrong'.

Joerg's number is 'correct' (see Figure 1 on the below webpage), but
depending on design, Li-ion batteries can also go to 4000 cycles (see
the text below Table 2).

If Li-ion could do only 200 or 500 cycles, Electric Vehicles would not
be feasible. OTOH, for mobile phones, laptops, etc., 500 is probably a
realistic number to expect, before capacity degrades too much.

So eat your heart out reading this and other pages at Battery
University:

'BU-808: How to Prolong Lithium-based Batteries'
<https://batteryuniversity.com/article/bu-808-how-to-prolong-lithium-based-batteries>

[Frank Slootweg]

Ken Blake <K...@invalidinvalid.com> wrote:
> On 12/23/2021 4:15 AM, John McGaw wrote:
> > On 12/23/2021 4:59 AM, Piet wrote:
> >> Depends on what you cal "cheap". And a powerbank to
> >> make up for the small battery is still a lot cheaper.
> >
> > Absolutely true. I have several of them from tiny to huge. The problem is
> > that trying to use the phone with the power bank attached it not exactly
> > convenient.
>
> Nor does it fit into my pocket.

Then you probably have (a) very small pocket(s). My 6000mAh powerbank
easily fits in my shirt pocket. Shirt pocket probably holds two if need
be. Trouser pocket would hold three or four. (The 2000mAh one is even
much smaller, four of them are smaller than the phone.)

I hardly ever had/have to use it, but it's nice to have in case it
*is* needed.

[Andy Burnelli]

I agree again with Andy that "brand loyalty" can only go so far.

We can call it Andy's rule that...
a. If you're loyal to a product, it will eventually suck over time, and,
b. If you swear off every brand that burned you, you won't be left with any
to choose from.

An example might be "Firestone" tires, which, we may have sworn off when
they had their debacle back in the day, but now, who knows who makes them.

Similar things happen with Die-Hard batteries, where Exide (sold at Home
Depot) bribed Sears executives to sell old batteries branded as new
batteries (and Exide & Sears execs even went to jail for that).
<https://duckduckgo.com/?q=exide+sears+jail>

Meanwhile, I've sworn off "Blitz" portable gas containers (because they
suck) which I bought over a dozen from Lowes (which no longer sells them)
and I'll never buy another Blitz product ever again, those gas cans suck so
badly (I buy Spectre now, which Costco periodically sells) as I keep a score
of filled gas cans at my mountain home so that I don't have to drive almost
50 miles round trip just to get gasoline for my cars and that of my family.

Googling for a Blitz link, I see they went bankrupt because they were sued
to death, so while I think the lawsuits are spurious, I'm not unhappy that
NOBODY bought their gas can manufacturing plant (although apparently the
water cans were sold - which are essentially the same thing save for the
color & stamping on the outside and of course that horrid nozzle).
<https://duckduckgo.com/?q=blitz+gas+cans>

[Ken Blake]

On 12/23/2021 9:15 AM, Piet wrote:
> Ken Blake wrote:
>> John McGaw wrote:
>>> The problem is that trying to use the phone with the power bank
>>> attached it not exactly convenient.
>>
>> Nor does it fit into my pocket.
> Mine easily fits into my wife's handbag.

That's fine for you wife, but not for me.

[Calum]

On 22/12/2021 17:13, The Real Bev wrote:
> (1) The battery runs down really quickly.  I flip away every app I'm not
> using (NOBODY provides OFF switches)

Nobody provides off switches because they're not supposed to if they're
following the platform guidelines. Modern mobile operating systems are
much better than you are at sleeping or killing processes when the
resources are needed for something else.

[The Real Bev]

> resources are needed for something else.●●●●●●●●●●●●

I don't care about resources other than battery drain. What I really
want is to kill anything that actually uses battery power even though
it's been flicked away. When I look at 'battery usage' the total is
NEVER even close to the actual battery usage. I'm sure there are system
processes that I shouldn't kill, but do they use the majority of the
battery?

Does wifi use a lot of battery even when it's connected to my router 3
feet away? And is there an app that will give me a DETAILED list of
battery usage? Like 'top' for android with kill -9 capability...



--
Cheers, Bev
Polish loan sharks: they loan you money and then skip town.

[The Real Bev]

On 12/23/2021 05:10 AM, Frank Slootweg wrote:
> The Real Bev <bashl...@gmail.com> wrote:
> [...]
>
>> The battery has to be a lot worse for me to replace it. I bought it
>> "factory refurbished" 1.5 years ago, so the battery may be the original
>> one from October 2017. Still, 4 years isn't all that long.
>
> As others have mentioned/explained, sadly enough 4 years *is* quite
> 'long'.
>
> For your next phone/battery, try to keep it between 10 and 90%, or
> better yet, between 20 and 80%. Yes, it's a pain to try to manage that,

I use it to record my sleep, so it charges up to 100% during the night.
It usually drops to ~40% during the day, and then I start over when I
go to bed. I've been doing this pretty much every night for the last
1.5 years. There's no way on earth I'm going to be able to pay close
enough attention to keep it in the desirable charge range. I'm just not
that organized. Is there any way the battery could recover if I changed
my ways?

> but the battery nor the device manufacturers care about *your* pain. The
> only thing *they* want it to sell you a new device ASAP.
>
> Yes, the device manufacturers could let their devices manage this
> automatically, but then they wouldn't die as fast, would they?
>
> Having ruined enough batteries by charging to 100%, I now have our
> devices on AC timers and only give them a limited charge time per day
> (or shorter period for the laptops).

[The Real Bev]

I'm sure they contract out to hundreds of different factories and that
just because one makes crap it doesn't mean that they all do.
Nonetheless, the buck stops at 'Samsung'. If they're slipshod enough to
let ANY crap into their supply chain, much less four different items
over a decade, I don't want to deal with them. The stove thing was the
killer. If a factory-authorized repair center sends out incompetent
people, that's a fifth problem, possibly the worst one.

ONE of them (clearly a new kid) was smart enough to call home, explain
what he was seeing (exactly what the two guys before him AND I were
seeing) and ask for guidance. He was told that they had to order the
part (igniters for ALL the burners -- they come in a single string) and
that they would be installed in two days -- by the first guy who came
out. Hubby and son swear that he had the igniter-string out on the
floor while he was replacing some other part.

Samsung is dead to me.

> I have an
> LG/Kenmore washing machine in a rental unit and it has one really bad
> design flaw that causes water to spill over the top of the tub onto the
> floor even though no hoses are actually leaking. I was lucky to find a
> Youtube video that showed how to fix it because apparently many
> appliance repair people are unaware of the issue

Perhaps I'll look for the Pixel2 battery video. Might at least convince
me it's worth paying someone else to do.

[The Real Bev]

That's OK, I think there are at least 25 years' worth left. I'm aiming
for 105.

[The Real Bev]

Most of which were caused by men.

Back when we were dirtriders I carried the tools. My son was able to
drain his oil, unjam some gears in the trans and put everything back
together (out in the middle of the forest where the only alternative was
abandonment) with the stuff that I carried on my much smaller person and
motorcycle.

--
Cheers, Bev
"If anyone disagrees with anything I say, I am quite prepared
not only to retract it, but also to deny under oath that I
ever said it." -- T. Lehrer

[The Real Bev]

On 12/23/2021 08:33 AM, Andy Burnelli wrote:
> On Thu, 23 Dec 2021 15:53:15 +0000, Andy Burns wrote:
>
>>> if I ever do swear them off.... then... as Andy noted... I'll be out of
>>> companies to choose from.
>> Also people have misplaced brand loyalty "I bought an xyz washer 30 years ago
>> and it's been brilliant", buy another one today and it's highly unlikely to be
>> made to the same standard ...
>
> I agree again with Andy that "brand loyalty" can only go so far.
>
> We can call it Andy's rule that...
> a. If you're loyal to a product, it will eventually suck over time, and,
> b. If you swear off every brand that burned you, you won't be left with any
> to choose from.
>
> An example might be "Firestone" tires, which, we may have sworn off when
> they had their debacle back in the day, but now, who knows who makes them.

I got 2 new free Firestone tires out of that. SCORE! They're still on
the truck.

[sms]

Joerg is wrong of course™.

The typical estimated life of a Lithium-Ion battery is 300 to 500 charge
cycles, or three years.

But that assumes _complete_ cycles, discharged all the way to 0% then
charged to 100%, and both extremes affect the number of cycles and the
number of years. It's why you're better off not discharging below 20% or
charging over 80%. My five year old iPhone 6s Plus still shows 97% of
battery capacity available. It's rarely been discharged below 20% though
it's routinely charged to 100%.

One reason wireless charging is so useful is that users are lot more
likely to drop the phone onto a Qi charging stand when not in use then
they are to keep plugging and unplugging it; this makes it more likely
that the battery will not be excessively discharged. That tiny extra
amount of electricity that is used by a wireless charger is more than
offset by the likelihood that the replacement cycle will be lengthened
by a year.

[The Real Bev]

On 12/22/2021 02:44 PM, The Real Bev wrote:
> On 12/22/2021 01:19 PM, Joerg Lorenz wrote:
>> Am 22.12.21 um 18:13 schrieb The Real Bev:

>>> Based on the battery, I don't think I would buy another Pixel.
>>

>> Cannot report any problems so far. My 4 is running all the time since I
>> bought it factory new. It is not quite 2 years old yet.
>>
>> IIRC you are using a Pixel 2. The battery must be over 4 years old.
>
> I got some free Cobra (I think) walkie-talkies maybe 10 years ago.
> Every few years I turn them on and then recharge them. They've never
> failed to turn on. OTOH, I've never actually used them after I set them up.

Motorola, not Cobra. They were 3/4 charged and worked fine, although I
had to look at the instruction leaflet and the buttons seemed a bit
dodgy. This is without being used at all, of course...

I watched the battery-replacement video. I've done something like that
with my Lenovo tablet -- the power switch doesn't want to work -- and
someone who shall remain nameless lost one of the screws that holds down
the ribbon cable. That doesn't seem to cause problems, but the switch
works for a while and then stops working. It seems like the plastic
part that you push with your finger that pushes on the REAL switch is
just too short. This can't be, of course, since it worked fine for a
couple of years. Next time I take it apart I want to pay special
attention to adding a thicker shim. But I digress...

Opening it up destroys the water-proofness. I don't think I want to do
that. I'll never know when the damn thing might want to go for a short
swim.

[Joerg Lorenz]

Am 24.12.21 um 03:01 schrieb sms:

> On 12/23/2021 6:51 AM, David Higton wrote:
>> In message <sq1cqr$719$1...@dont-email.me>
>> Joerg Lorenz <hugy...@gmx.ch> wrote:
>>
>>> Modern Lithium-Batteries have an expected lifetime of about 200 complete
>>> cycles until they reach roughly 75%-85% of their original capacity and
>>> then degrade fairly quickly.
>>
>> That seems an implausibly small number. I would have expected at least
>> 500. What's your source for those figures?
>
> Joerg is wrong of course™.

You are an idiot.
You know certainly better than academic research ... *ROTFLSTC*

[Frank Slootweg]

The Real Bev <bashl...@gmail.com> wrote:
> On 12/23/2021 05:10 AM, Frank Slootweg wrote:
> > The Real Bev <bashl...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > [...]
> >
> >> The battery has to be a lot worse for me to replace it. I bought it
> >> "factory refurbished" 1.5 years ago, so the battery may be the original
> >> one from October 2017. Still, 4 years isn't all that long.
> >
> > As others have mentioned/explained, sadly enough 4 years *is* quite
> > 'long'.
> >
> > For your next phone/battery, try to keep it between 10 and 90%, or
> > better yet, between 20 and 80%. Yes, it's a pain to try to manage that,
>
> I use it to record my sleep, so it charges up to 100% during the night.

I do the same with an old phone. That phone is also on a timer, a
timer in the USB-A to Micro-USB lead which charges the phone. That timer
can be set from 1 to 9 hours in one hour steps, so after some nights, I
know the right time needed to charge it enough, but not to 100%.

> It usually drops to ~40% during the day, and then I start over when I
> go to bed. I've been doing this pretty much every night for the last
> 1.5 years. There's no way on earth I'm going to be able to pay close
> enough attention to keep it in the desirable charge range. I'm just not
> that organized. Is there any way the battery could recover if I changed
> my ways?

The battery might recover a bit, but probably not much. Changing your
ways only helps the further degradation not to go as fast.

Best policy is to take care of your *next* battery/phone.

[John McGaw]

I won't swear to the number of power banks I own but counting what I can
find at the moment makes me think I'm a bit paranoid. In front of me on the
desk now are two 20,000 banks (a long-skinny Anker and a shorter ZMI) and
either will fit into a shirt pocket but do weigh it down a bit. Then there
is an older 10,000 Maxboost which is definitely pocketable. Odder still are
two little 5,000 units which were bought for their hand-warmer function but
which are also power banks. There are at least a couple of others around.
Like I said, getting paranoid (but I've never been caught with a dead
battery even when hiking in the Scottish Highlands or remote areas in
Western Ireland).

--
Bodger's Dictum: Artifical intelligence
can never overcome natural stupidity.